00:03:06 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-1361-gca1d9b6 (32) 00:17:42 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-1361-gca1d9b6 00:28:34 03galehar * r04be76efd5e6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Monsters don't avoid trap they don't know about (#4199). 00:28:44 03galehar * rb6386e36757b 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Fix monsters not cleared from minimap when ctrl+C (#4259). 00:28:44 03galehar * rc4fa9020673a 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Don't prompt for unarmed attack if UC skill is higher than weapon skill. 00:45:15 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:14 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:21 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:50 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:03 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:57 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 01:42:19 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:21 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:22:28 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:07:54 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:24 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:54 -!- ivan has left ##crawl-dev 03:59:41 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:37 -!- djinni has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:10:51 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:51 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:24 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:12:24 -!- djinni has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:12:40 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:40 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:59 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:51:53 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:58:59 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:02 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:41 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:01 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:06 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:58 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:40 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:17:50 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:40 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:51 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:22 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:03:26 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:04:44 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:57 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:11:25 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:30 Copyright 2002-2010 Crawl DevTeam (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4262) by Mychaelh 08:24:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:33:33 Butchering without Edged weapon (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4263) by Sirdec 08:39:39 I added a note to tha tone, explaining the change. 08:41:33 ...I thought enchant weapon scrolls were supposed to work 100% on things below +4 enchantment? 08:42:03 H - a +3 blowgun (weapon) 08:42:04 As you read the scroll of enchant weapon II, it crumbles to dust. 08:42:04 Nothing appears to happen. 08:45:00 RichardHawk: Do blowguns even get +dmg? 08:47:15 ...huh, didn't think of that. You can use both EW1 and EW2 to enhance a missile's bonus, but not for a blowgun? 08:47:22 That seems wrong. 08:49:15 it does a bit 09:25:37 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:38 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:13 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:52 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:45 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:19 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:18 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 10:42:14 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:30 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:17 03MarvinPA * rdbb4c52a13e2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc itemprop.cc): Always identify bracer ego and misc items with only one type 10:46:24 03MarvinPA * r4d7775f46066 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc itemprop.cc): Allow enchanting blowguns with either EW scroll, like missiles 10:46:24 03MarvinPA * rd55de58e0ca0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des: Remove a couple of temple entry vaults (minmay) 10:46:24 03MarvinPA * ra69c5ca0bf0f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (entry/small.des variable/mini_monsters.des): Tweak some minivaults, fix a broken entry vault 10:46:25 03MarvinPA * r4132b1ac749d 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Remove some misleading and out-of-date information from weapon descriptions 11:13:07 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:00 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:24 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:38 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:14 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:57 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:59 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:59 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 12:57:59 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:15 evening 12:58:55 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:31 -!- Alexx999 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:39 hello guys! 13:03:51 hiya 13:04:02 I've built DCSS with msvc 2010 13:04:12 congrats 13:04:24 without breaking other platforms 13:05:08 and if somebody's interested - I may share patch 13:05:51 push it to a public repo and write to CRD asking for someone experienced to look at it 13:25:06 Quiver slot display doe not update on auto-switch (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4264) by Kokor Hekkus 13:25:10 Alexx999: Does that work in Express edition? 13:30:08 Nemelex Early OP Experience Card / Manual Mode (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4265) by dolphin 13:53:46 -!- mumra has quit [] 13:55:17 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:01:12 the idea of 20 stealth on D:2 makes me laugh 14:32:52 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:13 -!- LordSlothW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:32 -!- LordSlothW has left ##crawl-dev 14:39:05 mumra, I think that it *should* work in Express Edition as project isn't using anything that is not supported there 14:40:02 Cool :) 14:40:06 except, maybe, for MASM, but that is only needed if we want Win2000-compatible build 14:40:51 I started setting up a solution but I didn't really know what I was doing. Mostly a C# programmer so C++ builds are all a bit arcane to me. 14:41:42 yep, in C# there is a few fancy pages with very few options there - and that's all) 14:42:25 firstly, the project for MSVC is VERY outdated 14:42:43 When I loaded it up no files showed at all 14:43:36 I still must build first with MinGW to generate all files/do prebuild and only then compile with VS 14:47:44 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:17 I think win2k support has been dropped recently, so no worry about that. 14:49:33 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:54 well, if all that's needed is small asm file - for me it seems no big deal to keep it 14:52:26 What happened to the new AM? Did anyone ever implement it? 14:52:34 AM? 14:52:42 Arcane Marksman? 14:52:46 not I 14:52:52 not yet, due came up with a couple of good spell ideas for it though 14:53:02 MarvinPA: Cool, just asking. 14:53:13 I need to round out the Abyss. It needs more testing. 14:53:22 so i think there's a somewhat decent book proposal now, i should put it on the wiki or something 14:54:00 ghallberg: we're supposed to have frozen the code. We haven't branched out yet, but it might be good to start focusing on squashing bugs. Now is not the time to add a new background with new spells. 14:54:16 Alexx999: Sounds really promising anyway, great work - can you post something on the forum when it's available? Wanted to have a crack at some implementables when I get time, my main barrier was the build process! 14:55:09 galehar: Of course not, I felt like playing it was all. :) Good to freeze now I guess. 14:56:43 can I close issues as an updater? 14:57:06 bmh: try, but I don't think so. 14:57:11 mumra: there already exist some patches for MSVC build, you may try them right now. however, they were not accepted to trunk, while I am going to make patch that will fit into it 14:57:13 which one do you want closed? 14:58:01 The hatches "bug" 14:58:36 I'll fix the Jiyva altar bug 15:04:41 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:20 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:53 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:05 bmh: thanks for fixing bugs :) 15:30:51 galehar: just got off the phone -- can you point me to where the dungeon overview screen lives? 15:36:38 I'll do better, I'll teach you how to find it quickly 15:36:48 search the key in cmd-keys.h 15:37:00 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:37:00 -!- djinni has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:37:04 150:{CONTROL('O'), CMD_DISPLAY_OVERMAP}, 15:37:13 neat 15:37:16 grep CMD_DISPLAY_OVERMAP main.cc 15:37:27 1842: case CMD_DISPLAY_OVERMAP: display_overview(); break; 15:37:33 grep display_overview *.h 15:37:40 dgn-overview.h:19:void display_overview(); 15:37:41 I'm set from here :-) 15:37:49 ack-grep is my weapon of choice. 15:38:00 knowing where to start at the top level is very helpful 15:38:15 it all starts in main.cc :) 15:38:53 I think that reading the crawl source has improved my coding 15:39:05 They should really teach reading code in college. 15:40:47 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:47 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:48 galehar: do you use {c}tags? 15:41:15 tags? for goto? 15:41:23 for searching in vi 15:41:31 oh 15:41:43 I tried it, it's definitely useful 15:41:47 many devs use it 15:41:50 I use eclipse 15:42:01 really? I couldn't get used to CDT 15:42:09 well I did :) 15:42:40 it has many drawbacks, being bloated and everything. But it also has some nice features. 15:43:26 what do you think is the correct behavior here? Showing Jiyva in grey, or removing it from the list? I'm actually not familiar with what becomes on Jiyva altars when the slime dies 15:43:39 I love the debugger. It helps a lot to have a good visual debugger. Especially for some tricky stuff like monster AI. 15:44:16 The Java debugger is great. 15:45:11 I think just removing them should be good. But graying them might be simpler if the layout is hard-coded. 15:45:41 the display just calls temple_god_list and nontemple_god_list 15:45:42 it's minor, do the easiest :) 15:45:54 I can remove Jiyva from those lists when it's dead. 15:46:11 yeah, do that 15:46:32 it's only used in five places, and two of them are the overview screen 15:50:19 'eh. I'm not going to hit it there. I'll one-up the behavior an display dead Jiyva in another color. 15:51:12 actually, Visual Studio debugger is great - the very best thing in whole IDE :) 15:51:48 back in university, a group of us wrote a visual debugger for threads in GDB in... Ocaml 15:51:50 that was a mistake. 15:52:35 well, I suppose that was fun) 15:53:04 I would not advise it. 15:53:55 well, I'm not suprised about that) 15:57:01 what I love in VS are things like "find all references", "go to definition", etc. and refactoring 15:57:52 galehar: Is there a way to check if a player ever worshipped a god? 15:58:03 eclipse has all that too. All decent IDE have I guess. 15:58:18 mumra: try to debug anything in Embacadergo (ex-Borland) studio 15:58:32 Eclipse has awesome refactorings. 15:58:40 NetBeans also has them, which doesn't surprise me at all 15:58:42 bmh: Not that I know of. 15:58:58 mumra: you'll pretty quickly understand all the greatness of VS 15:59:13 galehar: Rather than greying out dead jiyva. I'm going to display the name in one color (magenta?) and another color if you worshipped jiyva and jiyva is dead 15:59:18 VS has been unusable for me in the past 15:59:26 mostly because on the system I was on, it took half an hour to start 15:59:37 admittedly, that's an anomaly rather than a direct fault of the program itself 15:59:39 you.worshipped[which_god] :-D 15:59:49 bmh: why? just dark grey seems fine to me. 16:00:23 galehar: because you murdered Jiyva. Besides, there's a special case not to show darkgrey altars if they're non-temple gods. 16:00:28 it would be nice to know which gods are dead in case it ever becomes possible to kill more than jiyva 16:00:31 VS has a major drawback. It runs under windows. 16:00:35 but it would be nice to have a system that doesn't have a failure case with network problems that extreme 16:00:44 galehar: *doesn't run under anything but Windows 16:00:48 Eclipse and NetBeans run under Windows too 16:00:49 Eronarn: god_is_dead(god_type)? 16:01:07 ais523: yes of course :) 16:01:11 well, I think for windows users thats just OK) 16:01:25 Is there a different slime tile for big slimes? 16:01:30 Windows is such a bad platform for development on 16:01:37 bmh: if compile mode nietzsche, returns true 16:02:09 Eronarn: I can prematurely generalize it and have it check to see if god == GOD_JIYVA && jiyva_is_dead() 16:02:11 for me *nix is even worse as I don't have skills in makefile usage)) 16:02:26 bmh: generalizing it is good. for example, spider god 16:02:32 Alexx999: Eclipse CDT can manage your makefile. 16:03:20 there's no need to worry about generalisation. It won't happen tomorrow and will be trivial to change. 16:04:04 well, right now I've got following situation: DCSS makefile is making some prebuild, and I have no idea on how to get those commands out of makefile 16:04:22 galehar: how does the devteam feel about convenience methods? For example, now we have "you.worshipped[god_type]" and I'd prefer to have you_worshipped(god_type) 16:04:26 list 'em, whatever 16:04:53 and I doubt that Eclipse would be much of help 16:06:40 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:12 bmh: there's no rule 16:07:21 ok 16:07:21 if you think it can improve the code, do it 16:07:55 sweet! I'll introduce some template meta-programming. It'll be great! 16:08:25 I should have a patch in 10 minutes (building & testing) 16:10:37 i think i'll go do the alchemy patch today 16:11:09 galehar: do you prefer format-patch or should I just push to my local branch? 16:12:45 if it's a small patch, format-patch and upload to mantis 16:12:53 branch is better for bigger changes 16:12:57 anyway, have to go 16:13:00 see u later 16:13:04 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:04 I'm looking at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3696 16:20:19 ok 16:20:46 Seems to be a reasonable ug report and it shouldn't be hard to fix, should just be moving the divine shield stuff before the incapacitated check and returning that instead of 0 16:20:47 bleh. I can change an issue to "assigned" but I can't assign it to you 16:21:11 Nah I'm only a bug reporter or w/e 16:21:15 I'll post a note there. 16:21:28 oh, are you going to fix it or should I? 16:21:29 i'd be lazy and just suggest tweaking the description :P 16:21:51 MarvinPA: Seems reasonable that it should work and it's pretty easy. 16:22:13 i guess it's a fairly small thing, yeah 16:22:37 it is a small thing, but I think this special casing is bad for crawl. 16:22:40 does divine shield stack on top of condensation shield? 16:23:02 MarvinPA: looking at the code it seems it just stacks on everything 16:23:14 so it does 16:23:52 Yeah, that code isn't very pretty 16:24:20 Not gonna do aything til I get a clearer view of what we want there.. 16:24:29 it'd be easy to justify it the same way as condensation shield, anyway 16:24:42 TSO provides it but you have to concentrate to manage it 16:24:56 Yeah, guess so. 16:25:02 someone's trying to weasel his way out of a fix :-) 16:25:11 It already depends on your shield stat 16:25:18 case GOD_XOM: 16:25:18 return (is_holy_discipline(discipline) 16:25:18 || (discipline & SPTYP_DIVINATION)); 16:25:20 or... 16:25:23 why does xom dislike holy magic and divinations 16:25:38 huh, so it does 16:25:40 Eronarn: Divinations are reasonable I think 16:25:51 Eronarn: holy implies order? 16:25:52 so yeah, that definitely implies it's your skill with a shield that makes it effective 16:26:06 bmh: no, anti-chaos implies order 16:26:10 should Xom punish you if you switch to Zin? 16:26:27 Eronarn: Diviniation seems reasonable since it lets you predict the future, holy, not so much 16:26:35 k - the falchion "Plog" (weapon) {freeze, rF+ rN+ Dex+4} -- has dpeg been playing with the name generator? 16:26:53 MarvinPA: Thoughts on the shield stuff? 16:28:12 i think i'd probably go with just rewording the description, i can do it if you like 16:28:28 Nah I need to learn to find that stuff too. 16:28:31 huh 16:28:40 Maybe take a look at the shield code for 0.A instead 16:29:04 poison magic and air magic are innately louder than all other kinds of magic 16:29:05 wtf 16:29:20 POISON!? 16:29:31 else if (disciplines & SPTYP_CONJURATION) 16:29:31 return (level); 16:29:31 else if (disciplines && !(disciplines & (SPTYP_ALCHEMY | SPTYP_AIR))) 16:29:31 return div_round_up(level * 3, 4); 16:29:31 else 16:29:33 return div_round_up(level, 2); 16:29:49 if i'm reading that right that's level noise for conj, 3/4 * level noise for pois/air, 1/2 * level noise for everything else 16:30:12 what's the easiest way to savescum crawl? copy db? 16:30:17 To me it looks like someone inverted stuff... 16:30:28 the comment indicates that might be the case 16:30:34 * - Air and poison (quiet) = \f$ \frac{level}{2} \f$ 16:30:34 * - Other (normal) = \f$ \frac{3 \times level}{4} \f$ 16:30:45 oh wait, there's a not in there 16:30:46 Though air should make more noise than ice imo 16:30:46 nevermind 16:31:31 Eronarn: Care to rearrange it so that it checks the other way around? Seems more readable to me. 16:32:01 sorry, doing a patch right now 16:32:14 Eronarn: I'll do it then 16:32:18 seems like a weird thing to exist at all, surely that's better handled by individual spell noise mods 16:32:32 since some air stuff is super loud 16:32:51 MarvinPA: Want me to change that? 16:34:03 'eh.. weird. 16:34:15 Conjuration is loudest 16:34:15 I worshipped Jiyva, killed the royal jelly, lost my religion and Jiyva isn't dead 16:35:01 jiyva doesn't die until wrath expires 16:35:14 you don't get to escape that easily :P 16:35:31 MarvinPA: oh, ok. can I make wrath expire in wizmode? 16:35:34 he holds on to existence because of his anger at the player, or something 16:35:40 hmm, i'm not sure 16:36:05 MarvinPA: I made myself a mummy. I'll wait it out 16:36:26 if there is i don't know how to do it, i know you can get rid of penance if you're worshipping a god 16:37:01 Conjure up a divine shield that stacks with an ordinary shield and can be used even when wielding a two-handed weapon, as the Divine Shield is held aloft by 16:37:05 the Shining One. You will still need to control it. 16:37:19 That last line feels tacked on, I'm no good at this :P 16:37:31 it is tacked on 16:37:33 ghallberg: can you dump the whole line here? 16:37:47 bmh: That's the whole description there. 16:37:51 Pacra: yeah. 16:37:57 ghallberg: got it... 16:38:20 something to do with your shield skill improving your ability to manage it, maybe? 16:38:22 divine shield works even if you don't have a shield? 16:38:47 yeah 16:40:01 there's no way to unwrath myself in wizmode, 'eh? 16:42:15 The Shining One grants you control of a Divine Shield. It can be used along with an ordinary shield or even a two-handed weapon as it is held aloft by godly power 16:43:04 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:21 back 16:43:38 bmh: actually, pushing in your branch is fine too. 16:44:03 galehar: I'll just stick it on mantis once I can test it 16:44:11 I'm not sure how to merge it, but I'm willing to learn :) 16:44:15 Jiyva won't die because her wrath timer is taking *forever* 16:44:16 bmh MarvinPA: Does that look better? 16:44:27 ghallberg: much less tacked on. 16:44:29 looks good, yeah 16:44:34 Or 'sound' better I guess. 16:44:35 "The Shining One protects you with an embodiment of your faith. The divine shield is controlled by willpower, and benefits from your skill with shields, but can be used at the same time as any other equipment." 16:44:58 Eronarn: awwww, one-upper :( 16:45:46 argh--this is painful. wrath take *forever* 16:46:00 MarvinPA: (or others) any opinion on my proposal for experience card? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4265 16:46:35 galehar: That sounds very reasonable. 16:46:53 Should you be able to use it to train skills you have no levels in? 16:46:55 think i almost have the nameswap part of the change doen, yay 16:47:05 sounds good, but i'd say don't go too for above 20k xp even for max piety legendary decks 16:47:32 FR: experience card thrusts you into a portal you can't easily exit from 16:47:35 "what an experience!" 16:47:36 so just hard cap everything at 20k then 16:47:53 So yeah, mine or Eronarns description? 16:48:03 bmh: add a wizmode command for editing wrath timer ;) 16:48:05 yeah, just capping at 20k sounds good to me 16:48:24 galehar: it'll be faster than doing this by hand. 16:49:15 ghallberg: another option drawing from both: The Shining One grants you a divine shield. Because it is held aloft by godly power, it does not interfere with your equipment. However, it is controlled by your willpower, and your skill with Shields will improve it. 16:49:26 what about prompted with a skill menu? I could probably make it display the target skill level, like reskilling does. 16:49:43 Eronarn: Hmm yeah, clearer. A bit wordy but fine. 16:50:03 i tend to write pretty wordy 16:50:24 galehar: case 'w': wizard_god_unwrath(); break; 16:50:54 hmm this is weird 16:51:07 i'm getting "Unknown skill: Alchemy" even though i've removed all references to poison magic as a skill 16:51:16 Eronarn: Gonna post that one as a patch for the shiled bug. 16:51:22 shield* 16:51:27 bmh: fine. &W is free. Sounds useful, do it. 16:51:29 galehar: would you just let it be split between any number of skills? 16:51:29 it's in generating the apt txts 16:51:41 anyone have a thought why that would make it choke? 16:51:47 (i did a make clean) 16:51:51 galehar: &W invokes wrath, I'll just use &w to set all the wrath counters to zero 16:52:37 oh, nm 16:52:46 the code for the generation is in docs, i was in source 16:52:53 bmh: huh. That's what I meant. 16:53:17 MarvinPA: could just give the normal skill menu options. auto/manual and focus. 16:54:41 galehar: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3696 added a small patch there. 16:55:27 galehar: hm, i guess so, seems like it'd allow quite a bit of micromanagement though 16:55:54 i suppose that was the case in the old system assuming you victory danced it all 16:56:55 yep. but we're free to compensate the added control by decreasing the XP gained even more. 16:56:58 hmm 16:57:08 staff of poison: stick with that name for now, or become staff of alchemy? 16:57:31 i think poison might be okay - 'staff of death' 16:57:34 I dunno what it does but staff of poison sounds better 16:57:51 poison is probably fine, particularly since that's what it does when you hit things with it 16:57:59 MarvinPA: maybe force it in manual mode to keep it simple. Just allow focus. 16:58:17 well with acid in alchemy it could do other things too 16:58:27 (not that hitting things with it is a particularly great use) 16:58:34 monqy: that is true also 16:58:37 argh. I *hate* accidentally typing 'make' instead of 'make wizard' 16:58:56 bmh: alias it to makew 16:59:20 too late. C++ takes so long to build. 16:59:33 alright, that's done with 16:59:35 (Mozilla is working on a new language because of this problem) 16:59:38 now for the functional changes!! 17:03:27 gnöööörh 17:03:30 I need to sleep. 17:03:34 Gnite. 17:03:48 night 17:03:58 (GMT+2?) 17:04:15 03ghallberg * r678d048591dd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Changed description of Divine Shield to point out that you need to mentally control it. 17:04:18 ah, +3 17:04:21 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:39 wait... didn't book of chemistry get renamed? 17:05:31 yeah 17:05:36 hmm 17:05:40 i'm somehow out of date 17:05:47 to the book of alchemy, inconveniently :P 17:06:05 or pulling from the wrong branch 17:06:58 -!- Paroid has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:22 MarvinPA: I got nosy and started looking at IPs -- you're in the UK too, 'eh? 17:07:50 sigh, yes, conflict :| 17:08:10 feel free to pay my landlord a visit at OX29 ;-) 17:09:16 bmh: i am indeed :) 17:09:48 MarvinPA: If you're in London sometime, I'll buy you a pint. 17:11:35 galehar: sweet. the mollification wiz command works like a charm 17:14:19 anyone have any thoughts on the book situation for alchemists? 17:14:30 alchemy is taken, but worse, it shares fulsome/evap with the alchemist book 17:14:41 but i don't want to gut the current book, either 17:14:58 ??book of chemistry 17:15:00 book of chemistry[1/1]: Fulsome Distillation, Lethal Infusion, Sublimation of Blood, Evaporate, Condensation Shield 17:15:06 ??book of thaumatology 17:15:07 I don't have a page labeled book_of_thaumatology in my learndb. 17:15:11 ok well maybe i do kind of want to gut the current book 17:15:19 but maybe someone likes it 17:16:05 are there any other decently-themed spells that could go in there in place of fulsome/evap? 17:16:32 not really, it's just spells that sound chemical-y 17:16:36 yeah 17:16:43 i mean, it's a cool book 17:16:45 we could keep it and call it the Book of Phase Transitions 17:16:48 the book has a nice play on words with all the spell names containing alchemical vocabulary 17:17:15 considering that stalker and transmuter would both be losing fulsome/evap, i guess it might be fine as-is? 17:17:25 just with a different name or whatever 17:18:34 Book of Experimentation? Laboratory Manual? 17:21:10 Book of Matter? 17:21:49 "You're about to run into the slime covered wall!" -- upon resting in slime next to a slime wall 17:26:30 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:58 is going back to the "book of chemestry" not an option? 17:28:37 or keeping it at that, i forget if that book was renamed to the "book of alchemy" 17:32:01 do we really want both a Book of Alchemy and a Book of Chemistry with overlapping spells that aren't otherwise related? 17:36:07 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:15 galehar: pushed to my branch -- new Jiyva for the overview and a mollification command for wizmode 17:37:08 bmh: many thanks. 17:37:22 https://github.com/bhickey/crawl/commits/master 17:37:49 Is there a Book of Toxicology? 17:38:22 no 17:38:28 there's a Young Poisoner's Handbook 17:38:33 and Envenomations 17:39:08 Book of Thanatology? :D 17:40:05 bmh sounds good 17:40:10 let me try to merge it 17:40:17 good luck 17:41:09 maybe Book of Vitriol would work 17:41:12 for the alch starting book 17:41:13 I just read the auto-explore bug/FR. Are we after a better auto-explore algorithm? 17:41:55 improvements are always welcome. 17:42:08 auto-exploration is just traveling sales person with partial information 17:42:20 I think it's called the Canadian Trucker problem 17:42:31 or something like that... 17:42:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_traveller_problem 17:43:19 well, if you can implement such algorithm in crawl's autoexplore, it would certainly be very interesting. 17:44:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:45:07 at the moment is just moves toward the nearest unobserved square? 17:45:54 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:54 i think it weights where there are more unobserved squares 17:46:14 it would be nice not to skip the corner of rooms 17:46:44 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:13 petete: we could just approximate TSP and incrementally update it as we 'observe' more unseen squares 17:47:52 given that a single level of crawl is planar we can get a really good approximation for cheap 17:48:01 (not with any algorithm I'd want to implement, though) 17:48:46 it goes to the first unexplored square it finds 17:48:58 sorry, that's chinese to me, i'm not much of a coder 17:49:18 it goes a bit farther to search for objects to pick too in greedy explore 17:49:58 petete: Traveling Sales Person is an important problem that asks: Given a set of points in a space, find the shortest path that visits each point. 17:50:29 ah, now i see what's tsp 17:51:33 petete: here's the solution for Germany http://www.cs.umd.edu/~mount/451/about.htm 17:51:42 crawl's autoexplore searches for the nearest unexplored space using a flood fill algorithm (Dijkstra) 17:53:54 so does AceHack's 17:54:03 it's far from an optimal TSP solution 17:54:15 especially on a map that you can't see all of (if you could, why explore it?) 17:54:34 idk if it's the optimal way, but exploring the borders of the map first, following the outermost walls then repeating might work, given the range of vision and squareness of the squares crawl uses 17:55:09 going in circles in other words 17:55:21 petete: how do you know you're at the boundary in crawl? 17:58:13 galehar: did you merge alright? 17:58:35 -!- Paroid has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:58:50 umm, thats a good question 17:59:21 it also gets more complicated with autopickup 17:59:21 no free lunch theorem, if you don't know anything about your landscape all reasonable search strategies are equivalent 18:00:03 bmh: sorry, don't have my git foo tonight. Your patch is good, if you want it in tonight you'll have to send me patches 18:00:07 well, we do know a lot about the map, even if its not revealed 18:00:15 galehar: will do. 18:00:30 will have to learn to merge commits at an earlier time :) 18:01:05 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:24 the canadian traveller is very interesting. Do you really think you could implement something using that? 18:01:36 bmh: just keep in mind that any algorithm can't leak information to the player 18:01:36 Wensley: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:01:40 No idea. I haven't tried 18:01:58 Wensley: the very point of this one is to work with incomplete data 18:02:06 my first thought would be to implement a Hilbert curve TSP heuristic 18:02:28 did Mantis just fall over? 18:02:32 bmh: sorry but my maths skills are no better than my git skills tonight 18:02:40 I can only do C++ :P 18:02:41 there are different levels of incompleteness :P also bmh, what was that earlier about mozilla making a language to replace c++? 18:02:55 Wensley: they're working on a language called Rust 18:03:10 https://github.com/graydon/rust/wiki 18:03:30 Rust... sounds like it's already obsolete... 18:03:51 galehar: http://eagereyes.org/media/attachments/HilbertCurve.png that's the hilbert curve 18:04:17 What you do is place the points you want to travel to on a hilbert curve and visit them in order as if you were traversing the curve 18:04:30