00:26:25 03dolorous * rfcd1aa352704 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Remove ENCH_SOUL_RIPE from pre-enslaved souls, in case it affects Mantis 3930. 00:31:40 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37:42 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:47 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:57 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:12 -!- Guest15117 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:15 -!- Guest15117 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [] 01:26:35 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:28:52 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:21 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9-a1-1359-gcc9c6d9 (32) 01:36:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:50 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:17 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:24:44 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:14 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:14 ProjectEKO (L16 OgBe) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3839 failed. (Swamp:3) 02:41:08 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:35 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:59:22 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 03:15:55 -!- Garhauk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:08 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:46 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:49 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:00 !lm ProjectEKO type=crash -log 05:09:01 1. ProjectEKO, XL16 OgBe, T:35840 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.8/ProjectEKO/crash-ProjectEKO-20110714-074013.txt 05:27:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:01 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:52 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r95dea45cda11 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Floor monster AC at 0. 05:55:43 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:27 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:18:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:25 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:07 03galehar * rca1d9b6842f5 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix slow Sif piety gain (#4260). 06:31:04 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:16 hi 06:38:40 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:39:16 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:11 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:29 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:53:51 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:04 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:02:34 !tell MarvinPA inner flame is worthless from what I can tell, especially early game (where conjure flame was useful, why was it replaced?), it's hard to actually kill things before they get to you and have stuff near them. It also has antisynergy with sticky flame which turns FE into even more of a confused class, remember when it was the most well defined caster class? 07:02:34 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 07:03:05 !tell MarvinPA inner flame is worthless from what I can tell, especially early game (where conjure flame was useful, why was it replaced?), it's hard to actually kill things before they get to you and have stuff near them. It also has antisynergy with sticky flame 07:03:06 st_: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 07:03:20 st_: it works with sticky flame actually 07:03:29 how 07:03:47 cast inner flame and sticky flame on a monster, run away from it 07:04:02 assuming you have swiftness 07:04:03 sticky flame damage happens before the monster moves 07:04:07 no need for swiftness 07:04:52 that sounds sort of buggy to me 07:04:54 I generally agree that inner flame is an awkward spell for FE as is, though... any suggestions? 07:06:20 I don't know, the mechanic just doesn't seem to work 07:07:19 I wish there was some way to explain off the explosion doing less (or no) damage to the caster 07:19:23 elliptic: The caster knows it's coming, the monsters don't? 07:23:54 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:29:12 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:12 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:21 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:36 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:53 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 08:32:46 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:06 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:34:49 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:44 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 08:40:06 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:27 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:47 hmm.. are there any outstanding dungeon generation bugs in the wild at the moment? 09:00:45 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:04 i think there's still the issue with some floors having a huge number of escape hatches 09:04:31 well, that's better than too little 09:04:36 heh, yeah 09:04:42 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3838 09:05:23 looks like they're placed to try and guarantee no disconnected areas, but the connectivity checks get confused by vaults 09:05:36 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:06:25 MarvinPA_, the connectivity check assumes that vaults are non-passable, simply 09:06:39 unless they are tagged 'transparent', in which case it honestly checks them for passability and doesn't assume anything 09:06:50 aha, i guess that would explain why it seems particularly bad on levels with serial vaults, maybe 09:06:54 so: No new flags are needed, but -maybe- the default is wrong. 09:07:01 but it's been that way forever. 09:07:13 I'm not sure, but changing it to the opposite might break things somehow. 09:07:14 there weren't so many escape hatches previously though 09:07:21 elliptic, that's because hatch placing code was worse 09:07:39 it's been improved quite recently, to fix orc bubbles 09:07:50 well, arguably it worked better with the less "improved" version 09:08:07 at least outside of orc 09:08:29 elliptic, now it's technically more correct. Arguably, assuming that vaults are non-passable regardless of their content is less correct. 09:08:57 as I've said, 'transparent' tag disables that behaviour. 09:09:26 I'd play around with making it the default, but not before 0.9 is branched :P 09:10:19 let's call many hatches a feature for now :) 09:10:27 yeah, not something to try to address for 0.9 09:10:39 1.0, you mean? 09:11:09 I mean not 0.9 :) 09:11:11 oh wait, 'not' 09:11:21 sunlight here, and my backlight sucks :P 09:40:11 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:30 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:03 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais253 09:50:07 -!- ais253 is now known as ais523 09:51:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:33 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:02 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:44 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:30 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:51 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:49 -!- st_ has quit [] 10:43:18 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:36 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:22 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:21:44 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:06 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:14 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:21 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:48:52 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:58 moin? 11:51:41 Hi! 11:51:41 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:51:57 !messages 11:51:58 (1/1) galehar said (3d 20h 2m 30s ago): remove skill progress seems extreme, I'm not sure. Showing % to next level instead of total number for XP is a great idea. I'm fine with temporary effect for manual (even if thematically permanent is better), but I don't like the idea of them reducing other skills. 11:55:30 hey dpeg 11:55:38 aren't you on holiday? 11:58:40 short holiday ended today, longer holiday starts tomorrow 11:59:01 so naturally I have a quick look into ##crawl-dev -- only that not much is going on :) 11:59:42 dpeg: I've propose (tavern) that slime morph 12:00:51 bmh: I read that! A moderate version (which you might have had in mind) would work: only slime creatures spawn off walls. Simplest + safest way would be to count them as summoned (no xp, no piety gain). All other slime monsters are placed as usual. 12:02:00 !tell galehar I don't rally for progress indicator removal in 0.9, of course. But it seems to me that it causes a lot more agonising (of players over m screen) than it's worth, so why not wreck it? Especially with queued mode (good idea, imo), which makes progress less relevant. 12:02:00 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:02:17 dpeg: that sounds cruel 12:02:22 brb 12:02:23 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 12:03:02 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:13 bmh: Cruel? You surely mean cool!? 12:04:05 i find myself hardly ever checking skill progress now, i wouldn't really miss it 12:04:17 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 12:04:17 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:26 dpeg: cruel. It fills Slime up with a bunch of creatures that yield no XP 12:05:36 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:25 When I see summons, I run away 12:07:25 MarvinPA: <3 12:07:47 MarvinPA: it is always hard to take something away from players .... just like in real life :) 12:08:08 i suppose maybe it's useful information very early on? but mainly i just find myself selecting two or three skills i want to train, getting them up a few levels, selecting a couple more, and so on 12:08:16 dpeg: I think we should replace the whole skill code with a machine learning algorithm trained on won games. 12:08:37 it's very refreshing to just be able to do that and leave the skill screen alone mostly :) 12:08:49 bmh: it was only the simplest proposal. Perhaps something more elaborate should be used. In any case, the idea has potential. OTOH, Slime already is very unique and one of our most flavourful branches. To serve justice, we should probably turn attention to Vaults or something. 12:09:05 MarvinPA: yes, I agree 12:09:16 Vault *is* boring. A bunch of things that want to kill you 12:09:30 I know. I also made a wiki page with ideas how to improve Vaults. 12:09:50 a good start for vaults would be splitting the monster sets for D and vaults, i think there's the start of a proposal on how to do that on the wiki too 12:10:10 !tell galehar When I made the changelog, I flaked on the experience/skill section. Please add a couple of lines that explain the revolutionary character of the change. 12:10:11 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:11:11 oh.. is gitorious.org's git-daemon down? 12:11:22 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away 12:12:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:42 Napkin: Hi! 12:13:51 hey dpeg :) 12:14:16 now i was finally a bit motivated to update webtiles - and gitorious.org is down ;D 12:14:36 or i'm blocked in the firewall - either or 12:15:39 could someone please confirm that git://gitorious.org/~fdiebold/crawl/fdiebolds-crawl.git is currently not clone-able? 12:15:48 don't know how 12:15:52 sorry :( 12:16:00 hihi, noob ;) 12:16:03 no sweat :) 12:16:22 Napkin: Remote end hung up unexpectedly. 12:16:42 roger, thanks! 12:18:52 asking in #gitorious 12:35:56 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:46:19 seems like crawl's repository has the same problem 12:47:18 Napkin: I'll push it to github if that helps ;) 12:47:18 -!- Guest15117 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:22 hi 12:47:31 nah 12:47:36 hey edlothiol :) 12:47:47 i just found out, that i can clone any repository via ssh too 12:47:57 ah, ok 12:48:05 so ssh://git@gitorious.org/~fdiebold/crawl/fdiebolds-crawl.git works too :) 12:48:39 good :) 12:52:31 how did you handle the fact, that webtiles got merged, edlothiol? 12:52:39 anything i should be careful of? 12:54:06 arg.. but of course, i can't use my key as user crawl on the server *sigh* 12:55:22 no, nothing for 0.8 12:55:38 that's still in a separate branch in my repository ;) 13:00:14 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:32 can't you pull via http? 13:00:40 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest95043 13:01:27 ok, that may be seriously slow 13:04:26 I wouldn't expect http pulling to be all that slow 13:05:49 I just tried it, and it didn't do anything for quite some time, until I interrupted it... may be the same problem as with git:// though 13:08:23 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08:57 !tell kilobyte small commit for firefox 6 support: https://gitorious.org/~fdiebold/crawl/fdiebolds-crawl/commit/8b91456b4f2583acac05175acc1d897dfbdd6a78 13:08:58 edlothiol: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 13:11:11 yeah, http didn't work for me either 13:12:09 I can still upload it to github if you haven't found a solution yet ;) 13:12:53 hehe 13:18:16 hi 13:19:14 i think sif muna does not give enough books in sprint anymore. 13:19:35 is that a change intended? 13:20:09 no, just collateral damage from 0.9 stuff 13:20:13 or a side effect of changing xp system? 13:20:30 thanks! 13:20:38 sif piety speed was slowed down unintentionally i think, but it was increased again pretty recently 13:21:01 oh sounds nice. 13:21:06 thanks a lot. 13:42:24 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:49:25 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:51 -!- bmh_away is now known as bmh 14:12:02 dpeg: I think Vault could use a legitimate rune vault. 14:14:20 bmh: wiki page :) 14:15:38 will do 14:16:23 I'm fairly anti-"The rune is lying on the floor" 14:20:02 bmh: I think the V:8 maps are pretty good. 14:20:15 We could use the chest idea for V. 14:20:35 chest idea? (wiki-link please) 14:21:30 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:24:17 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:chests&s[]=chest 14:24:54 I like it 14:25:08 How should it be implemented? 14:25:45 "No specific opening action." is wonderful. 14:26:05 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:49 bmh: it would just be a new feature glyph, nothing more. 14:31:11 ¢ - a closed box 14:31:23 ¢, 'eh? 14:31:35 couldn't we use ¢ for bows? :-) 14:32:00 © 14:32:28 the best I could find while poking keys randomly 14:35:43 € = Tie Fighter 14:36:34 Is there a different symbol for eurocents? 14:36:49 prolly not 14:37:58 What does the orb look like? 14:37:59 what about a $ in front of a background? 14:38:03 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:14 The orb is a 0 14:38:19 i don't think you can get a branded $ atm 14:38:38 Ω is nice for somethin. 14:38:44 shops/portals 14:38:59 Ð = bow 14:39:45 -!- mumra has quit [] 14:39:54 ͡A 14:39:55 angel! 14:40:11 Ã 14:40:17 I've created a monster. 14:40:22 bmh: :D 14:41:31 ͢o 14:41:38 oops, that one didn't combine 14:42:15 º 14:42:17 oh wait, it's nto actually 0 width? 14:43:01 ♥ = catoblephas 14:43:20 -!- Sabaki has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43:30 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:33 can we replace ice statues with unicode snowmen? 14:44:13 ooh, there's lots of unicode combining characters i didn't know about 14:44:16 too bad i can't get them to work 14:44:56 :( 14:45:55 https://github.com/kragen/xcompose/blob/master/dotXCompose 14:46:09 huh, i must be doing it wrong 14:46:11 i can paste it fine 14:46:20 o 14:46:33 nooo my font doesn't have that! 14:46:35 :( 14:46:45 Need mor efonts on this comp! 14:46:47 that's a cross-out circle 14:46:53 like 'no parking here' 14:47:32 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:52 o⃞ is an orc in a box 14:51:00 can't see those in colloquy 14:56:20 i'm using irssi + gnome-terminal; pretty much everything i've tried shows up properly 14:59:45 yeah, I'm on urxvt 14:59:57 Most stuff shows up, but some are apperantly missing. 15:07:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:29:11 Random idea of the day: would it be useful if starting abilities are mentioned on turn 1? (E.g. for a Nage: "Welcome .... . You can spit poison with ... ." 15:30:11 dpeg: i think a 'starting screen' might make more sense: it lists everything your combination of (race, class, god) gives you at game start 15:30:29 this could be a good place to put stuff like what your statgain leans towards, or your racial HP 15:31:12 since there's lots of stuff that affects gameplay that is in the manual but not accessible in a concise place... like 'You will gain a color at L7.' 'Your scales get harder as you level up.' 15:31:15 dpeg: as long as I can disable it 15:31:58 stuff that will give a new player direction, but not be relevant for someone who already knows how that combo 'works' 15:32:22 then the message can be "Welcome ..." "Hit (key) to view your combo breakdown screen." 15:34:00 does apporting the orb *not* trigger hordes of demons? 15:35:04 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:27 Eronarn: the point is that many players miss those, especially the ones who won't be able to press 'A' or somesuch. 15:39:41 Disabling is fine, my idea is geared towards newbies. 15:40:46 dpeg: How do you feel about auto-explore in the abyss? 15:41:48 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:52 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:06 bmh: hm, don't know. Risk is potentially greater than elsewhere. 15:51:01 If someone wants to smack auto-explore in the abyss, they won't travel long before something stops them. I see it as a non-issue 15:53:52 ok, I am fine with enabling it test-wise 15:54:24 what would it even do? wouldn't it keep doubling back on itself when the map rots? 15:54:45 when I changed maprot in the abyss, auto-explore was a natural (and unforeseen) consequence. 15:55:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 16:03:50 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 16:08:57 Felids autopickup curare, even though they can't use blowguns. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4261) by beckyway 16:09:55 I always thought burare-pickup was a safety measure to prevent the filthy K:s from shooting me with them= 16:11:16 yep 16:22:18 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:37 hi 16:22:37 galehar: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:22:42 !messages 16:22:42 (1/2) dpeg said (4h 20m 42s ago): I don't rally for progress indicator removal in 0.9, of course. But it seems to me that it causes a lot more agonising (of players over m screen) than it's worth, so why not wreck it? Especially with queued mode (good idea, imo), which makes progress less relevant. 16:22:58 !messages 16:22:58 (1/1) dpeg said (4h 12m 48s ago): When I made the changelog, I flaked on the experience/skill section. Please add a couple of lines that explain the revolutionary character of the change. 16:23:22 !seen dpeg 16:23:22 I last saw dpeg at Thu Jul 14 20:53:51 2011 UTC (29m 31s ago) saying ok, I am fine with enabling it test-wise on ##crawl-dev. 16:24:12 HiQ 16:27:18 hey 16:27:28 I'll write something for the changelog, sure. 16:28:19 galehar: I think the skill change is the most important 0.9 feature, so it should get more than a line "Changed skill system" :) 16:28:32 indeed 16:30:19 thanks for updating manual too 16:31:20 just the little things I could do... sorry not more 16:31:30 hints and tutorial need many updates too. 16:32:57 on another note, with the new skill system you can train magic skills with trog (if you learned the skills before worshipping him) 16:33:06 I think he shouldn't be happy about that 16:34:31 you can use it to get spellcasting skill for an amulet of guardian spirit, for example 16:34:45 or elemental schools for enhancer staff melee 16:34:51 or pain weaponry 16:34:59 which is definitely a bit odd 16:36:31 so I'm thinking: reading scrolls shouldn't exercise spellcasting for Be. And training magic skills should have a piety penalty (which has a nice opposition with Sif) 16:38:32 something like that sounds reasonable 16:39:47 although it seems fine to let them get spellcasting level 1 as normal as long as there's a penalty for training it further? 16:40:39 yes, for example 16:43:18 ok. And automatically disable it when gained (like in manual mode) to prevent accidental training. 16:44:35 galehar: Instead of "Trog hates it if you train magic skills.", wouldn't it be easier to do "Trog disables learning magical skills." Otherwise someone who picks up Trog after getting Spc 1 from reading scrolls will get punished if they forget to press a button in the m screen. 16:44:45 galehar: seems you already arrived there :) 16:45:32 back later 16:47:26 Is webtiles usable in the upcoming tournament? 16:51:03 it should be, yes 16:51:22 Ah, excellent. 16:53:10 galehar: apparently there are some issues with gaining large amounts of xp all at once 16:53:16 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=24132#p24132 16:53:37 like, if you get a really early xp potion or card you can gain 20+ skill levels at once 16:55:14 was brought up in ##crawl: [22:51:41] rwbarton: is the bug that it gives a ton of xp but doesn't raise the necessary-XP curve as it does so? [22:52:02] yes 16:55:27 elliptic told me about it. I'm not sure what's wrong, I'll look into it. 17:00:38 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:18 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:01:59 -!- Sabaki has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:21 experience card gives 20000 XP 17:11:55 early on, that's an insane amount of skill points 17:13:34 potion of experience scale with XL (750 * XL) 17:14:19 oh huh, i thought the card scaled with evoc power? 17:14:36 I don't think there's any bug in the skill training. 17:14:43 it does at power level 1 17:14:49 power * 50 17:14:58 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:12 at power level 2 and 3, it's just 20k 17:15:17 aha 17:15:24 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:30 maybe it should just scale like the potion, then 17:15:49 probably 17:22:11 I've looked into the git history, and it seems it has been filling the XP pool for a long time. 17:22:26 Would be good to bring that to something more reasonable 17:43:25 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:58 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:34 murphyslaw (L14 HEHu) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left) in 'macro.cc' at line 553 failed. (D:10) 18:04:53 back 18:05:31 hello dpeg! 18:05:42 Hi! 18:05:56 Hey deepleg. 18:06:08 dpeg: have you spent any of your vacation playing trunk? :P 18:12:56 Wensley: I have spent the first four days without internet access and it'll be the same from tomorrow onwards :) 18:13:01 due: Cheers! 18:13:03 !seen nrook 18:13:03 I last saw nrook at Thu Jul 14 16:21:44 2011 UTC (6h 51m 19s ago) joining the channel. 18:13:14 nrook: Ha, where are you? :) 18:37:47 dpeg: hiding :) 18:37:54 hiding, and putting off doing weapons/armour 18:38:20 boohoo! 18:38:26 nrook: forever, or just for nowß 18:39:45 just for now 18:39:46 ok! 18:39:59 nrook: did my mail put you off? 18:40:44 no, I just figured there was no rush, since you weren't here 18:40:52 yes, that is right 18:41:02 you can delay replying until end of July :) 18:41:39 besides, I can pretend and say that I did lots of work implementing your suggestion to use base price in the code and convert it to goodness using a function... since I did that already anyway :) 18:42:18 I actually put jewellery prices into a separate function, and then randart_value calls that function to see how much, say, rF+ is worth 18:45:10 cool, please tell me that again in August =) 18:47:43 of course! 18:47:51 well, I'm going to get going, have a nice vacation 18:48:03 is it a vacation from everything, or just from crawl? 18:48:57 vacation with the family 18:49:45 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:46 oh, good 18:50:51 well, have a nice time! 18:51:23 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:53:22 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:13 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:23 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:03 -!- Textmode has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:59 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:27:47 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:10 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:03 clouds overwriting other clouds was disabled because of some weird glitch where players could target clouds over other clouds to extend the range of their cloud spells, yeah? 19:47:11 I'm not really clear on that, personally 19:47:18 i don't think so 19:47:29 I must be misremembering what kilobyte told me 19:47:37 that was just targeting cloud spells 19:47:48 clouds haven't been able to overwrite other clouds for a while 19:48:08 unless they're specifically allowed to do so, poison clouds can overwrite meph clouds for example, i think 19:48:19 huh, didn't know that 19:48:27 seems like sort of weird behavior 19:48:53 but you still can't target poison cloud on a square that has meph cloud, right? 19:48:57 see cloud_is_stronger, cloud.cc 485 19:48:59 hm 19:49:00 dunno 19:49:14 probably not 19:50:12 nope, seems not 19:51:32 wondering if I should make petrifying clouds overwrite other clouds... though I'm not really that concerned about the "meph yourself" strategy, since meph is overdue for a nerf anyway so who knows what'll happen 19:51:47 the whole thing could probably do with rethinking a bit 19:52:06 since you can do things like avoid mutagenic clouds in wizlabs/vaults by poison clouding yourself with rPois 19:52:20 likewise freezing clouds in ice caves, etc 19:52:57 good point 19:53:02 I've never even considered that 19:53:13 i use it extensively :P 19:53:33 not sure what the best solution would be, though 19:53:35 that problem could possibly be solved by making rPois either more than one level or not give guaranteed protection 19:53:57 or both 19:54:00 i'd still rather take a few turns of poison than a few turns of mutation, wouldn't you? :P 19:55:53 yeah, true :) but it could deter meph from being used that way at least, although poison cloud's already better than meph for that since it's bigger 19:56:28 in any case, that's sort of a hilarious pro strategy, I'm not sure I want to remove it any more as long as it isn't 100% drawback-free 19:56:34 i'm not sure there's a good way to make overwriting clouds work that'll have the desired effects and also be intuitive 19:56:50 not just "most recent takes precedence"? 19:57:05 Wensley: then you can overwrite miasma with steam, or stuff like that 19:57:21 true, but if it's a smoke generator it has a chance of coming back any turn 19:57:52 i wonder about making clouds push other clouds out of the way, rather than just overwriting 19:58:09 kind of like how if you cast freezing cloud on the same spot, the flood fill will avoid the already filled in squares 19:58:20 just imagine that it's pushing clouds out of the way, instead 19:59:02 I suppose that would work, as long as you define what happens when there's no room at all to expand into 20:00:52 perhaps clouds attempting to overwrite clouds could have only a 50% chance of overwriting, otherwise they leave the square as it was 20:05:05 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:01 Wensley: what about it tries to push the cloud into an adjacent square, and if there is no adjacent square, 50% overwrite chance? 20:06:06 -!- Guest95043 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:27 that sounds like a good compromise 20:07:01 maybe have clouds that get pushed lose some duration 20:07:12 that's what happens if, e.g., fire clouds are next to water 20:08:15 cloud pushing sounds like a pain to code, though. but it's not like I really have any idea how hard it would be. you'd have to consider each cloud being spawned at a time as a whole cloud mass so that prior clouds don't get pushed from the outside towards the center of the new cloud, and then get overwritten because they're surrounded by new cloud 20:08:23 actually, i guess: decrement, then try to push, then 50% chance to overwrite if it can't push. 20:08:32 and then you'd need to push lots in a single direction, potentially 20:08:47 it would be easy, it's conceptually exactly the same thing as trampling - the tricky thing is doing the pushes in the right order 20:09:00 and handling chain pushes 20:09:07 does trampling work in chains? 20:09:19 not right now, but it's doable 20:11:30 MarvinPA: I neeeeeed single-target abjuration. I quiver for it 20:11:46 too late to merge for 0.9 :( 20:11:58 :( 20:12:07 tragedy 20:12:23 i'll definitely try and merge it afterwards though, just need to figure out what else needs to be tweaked in the process 20:12:24 and nothing else is happening with demons? 20:12:26 probably a bunch of things 20:12:47 i don't think there was much else planned other than the abjuration changes 20:13:03 demon changes? 20:13:14 oh, was abjuration part of the demon branch? 20:13:16 well new ones of course. making the boring demons less so. 20:13:19 yeah 20:13:22 was there anything proposed other than the tier tweaks? 20:13:41 FR: orange demon -> poison devil so that I can give them an "a perfect circle" quote in their description 20:13:56 if there are good ideas i'm happy to try and include those too, but as-is it has a bunch of improvements at least 20:13:59 FR: orange demon not as boring as shit 20:14:19 FRonarn 20:14:23 lorocyproca as-is is a bit weak for a 2; give it shadow creatures, especially since blizzard demon doesn't have it anymore 20:14:29 oh yeah, i was going to do that 20:15:01 my list of dungeon crawl stuff to do is getting long :( 20:15:04 :( 20:15:26 MarvinPA: do you have any implementables you'd like to hand off? :D 20:15:27 I forget if there were any other concrete proposals 20:15:38 give loros airstrike 20:15:53 I should really get to doing the blood stuff already 20:16:20 shadow creatures is horrible as-is please don't use it on more monsters especially not invis relatively hard-to-kill ones 20:16:22 Wensley: hm, most of them are pretty vague, like "figure out new AM book" and "make new DS mutations" 20:16:51 oh man, new DS mutations sound fun 20:17:00 let me see if there are any ideas on the wiki 20:17:24 there weren't many that caught my eye, i quite liked n78's idea for an alternative fire facet though 20:17:47 where you can sometimes give off steam/smoke/immolation effects when you take damage 20:17:54 depending on how strong the damage is 20:17:58 lava orc facet 20:18:50 i think the only other wiki idea i was particularly keen on was some kind of rotting/miasma-related facet 20:18:57 I don't understand steam in there 20:18:58 a facet where you are suddenly playing erocrawl 20:19:03 squarelos facet 20:19:19 nighstalker II 20:19:29 electric squarealoo 20:19:32 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 20:19:43 i dunno, should probably be smoke for low damage, then maybe flame clouds, then immolation? 20:20:02 except flame clouds are stronger than immolation? 20:20:04 MarvinPA: i've wanted 'choking smoke' in for a long while 20:20:16 and for smoke demons to throw it instead of steam balls 20:20:40 "you choke on the fumes"? 20:20:41 well immolation can't be dodged and also it could get high power 20:20:48 hm 20:20:52 Wensley: yes 20:20:52 er neither can flame clouds but yeah 20:20:55 (be dodged that is) 20:20:59 wtf is immolation 20:21:08 scroll thereof 20:21:09 well flame clouds could happen to miss in a sense 20:21:14 unless they appear on every square 20:21:15 oh 20:21:16 right 20:21:17 which would be ridic 20:21:39 whereas immolation would just blast the things around you a bit which is always nice 20:21:45 with lava orcs they have lava blood 20:21:45 also, supposedly scroll of immolation used to sacrifice corpses in sight if your god accepted corpses, since "immolation" literally just means "sacrifice". but this behavior seems to have been removed 20:21:54 it does damage in the squares the blood splashes 20:21:58 maybe something like lowest is smoke (perhaps at lowest, just cosmetic), then it acquires explosions, then at really serious high damage, spits out flame clouds 20:22:03 regardless of where the damage came from 20:22:17 so if you get splattered for a ton of damage, blood everywhere, and fire clousd everywhere 20:22:24 well i don't want to outright steal lava orc mechanics :P 20:22:42 it'd be fine - DS are allowed to overlap some with other races 20:23:33 spriggan facet 20:24:10 'thin skeletal structure' 20:26:32 the LO one actually just does instant fire damage right now 20:26:40 i was thinking of changing it to either sticky flame or flame clouds 20:26:53 because splashing something with your blood is actually rather rare 20:27:52 Wensley: anyway, other reasonably interesting ideas on my list of things to do or to get somebody else to do include monster demonspawn for pan, petrify breath for grey dracs (maybe, if it doesn't turn out to be super overpowered) 20:29:43 what about making petrify clouds petrify you only while you're standing in them? 20:29:50 to make them work differently from the spell 20:30:47 you start petrifying quickly (1-3 turns, let's say) while standing in one, but have some time before you're fully petrified, and if you leave the cloud fast enough it wears off before you fully petrify 20:34:32 Eronarn: petrifying clouds and the petrify spell are already as different as noxious clouds and the confusion spell, although yeah I was thinking about some sort of mechanic where dust would settle on you but not wear off for a while, but the dust takes a while to go away. sort of a glow thing 20:35:16 so low level of dust (grey), no effect. moderate level of dust (yellow), slowed. high level of dust (red), paralyzed. 20:35:32 that sounds interesting 20:48:38 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:22 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:02 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 21:26:27 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:27 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:02 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:48 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:41 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:49 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:30 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:18 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:45 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev