00:00:33 although it's not like trogites have many skills to worry about in the first place... 00:00:40 that too 00:01:41 I think part of the Be perk is only focusing on a few skills, unlike casters 00:02:07 also trog usage increasing your mana pool isn't thematically fitting 00:02:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-177-g42ef9c5 (32) 00:03:26 would it be that hard to simply eradicate the contribution of invo to mp while worshiping trog? 00:03:52 abandon trog -> +20 mp? 00:03:56 Might make it weird when people switch gods 00:04:08 sure, why not. you'd get a few berserk ogre for your trouble, too 00:04:39 actually, it fits perfectly, because that's what happens when you unwield an antimagic weapon. trog is just an antimagic god 00:05:47 ??trog wrath 00:05:48 trog wrath[1/4]: ABANDONMENT: 50 penance, immediate retribution. RETRIBUTION: 50% summoning abjurable, but berserking hostiles from (iron troll, deep troll, rock troll, troll, black bear, grizzly bear, stone giant, hill giant, ogre, two-headed ogre); 33% weakening effect (decay, STR loss, paralysis, slowing); 16% fire miscast. 00:06:14 trog wrath should probably include antimagic effects, come to think of it 00:07:37 st_: uh, how is slow irrelevant on death curses? 00:08:03 wensley: trog extension can happen on any kill 00:08:11 even a summoned quokka 00:08:31 ah, I suppose I should pay closer attention to the message area :) 00:09:39 elliptic: because you just haste it off and then keep haste after slow wears off 00:09:47 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:52 at least before haste wore off first 00:10:23 st_: you still are at normal speed rather than hasted 00:10:52 slow from a mummy was a large contributor to my recent zigsplat 00:11:46 what if trog took away your mp pool, and tacked that number onto your hp instead? 00:12:24 I may have overexaggerated but I think it should actually slow you rather than "normal speed" you 00:12:35 why is something like that needed? 00:12:39 st_: it does slow you 00:12:41 same as it always did 00:12:47 Wensley: so mp-using evokables, guardian spirit, etc? 00:13:22 monqy: still thinking of a way to allow them to use evokables, but the point is that guardian spirit is now part of trog's package 00:13:25 wensley: I think trying to make trog use invocation skill is a bad idea anyway 00:13:34 shurg 00:13:34 if that's the motivation for all this 00:13:38 shrug 00:13:52 mostly I just like throwing ideas at the wall, but yeah :) 00:13:55 st_: I just don't understand what you think changed about slowness if you always have haste active anyway 00:14:04 since haste+slow was always normal speed 00:14:15 maybe the duration as you said, but that's hardly a big deal 00:15:02 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:48 well it used to be on zig floors, not that we should balance for zigs of course 00:16:33 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:21 elliptic: what was the original justification for trog not using invocations? 00:17:24 I don't even know anymore 00:17:39 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-177-g42ef9c5 00:18:29 no idea about the original justification, but invocation skill doesn't work very well in general 00:19:05 because no god requires very much of it 00:19:24 and there has been a recent movement away from invoc skill (see ash, kiku) 00:20:32 the basic problem is that people just get whatever amount of invoc is needed to use their abilities and then turn it off 00:21:01 what other skills aren't worth getting to 27? short blades, t&d, 00:21:10 darkgobbo (L1 DSSu) (D:1) 00:21:13 and this amount is fairly small because otherwise people won't be able to use their abilities until late game, long after they joined the god, and that is no fun 00:21:19 I think that's sad, I feel like invo could be a really cool skill if it had some attention, but I understand if that would be too much work 00:21:49 ortoslon: poison, charms (?) 00:22:34 really ely is the only god I can think of where invoc works well, and that's because it scales so that you need more and more as the game progresses 00:22:59 of course it might be possible to make other gods work better with invoc, including trog 00:23:46 I think that would be a good goal to accompany the wrath overhaul 00:24:29 I'd really hate to lose invo as a concept, or move even further away from it than we already have. at least kiku and nemelex make sense not using it 00:24:57 trog makes sense not using it too 00:25:33 not sure how, you're calling on your god for help, aren't you? you even get thwarted by silence :P 00:26:33 trog is supposed to be simpler than that... it isn't like you are a priest of trog or whatever... you spend half your time berserk, you shouldn't be expected to develop a skill just so that trog will treat you more nicely :P 00:27:04 kiku asking for corpses is calling on your god for help and doesn't work when silenced, too 00:28:09 that's fair :) and I didn't say kiku not using invo was ideal, only that it sort of makes sense, where I feel that trog makes less sense. but I guess I just get sort of bored with how straightforward berserkers are 00:28:29 asking kiku for corpses doesn't work when not silenced... bada bing ;_; 00:29:07 Excedrin: corpse delivery is great!! 00:29:10 it works for food or sublimation chunks 00:29:34 it isn't very good for animate dead but that's because it was broken before and it probably got overnerfed 00:30:26 through lair and somewhat beyond it's great for reconstructing your twisted res abomination in a pinch 00:30:33 Wensley: in 0.8 or trunk? in 0.7 it was great despite invoc 00:31:17 Excedrin: my experience all comes from 0.7, how hard was it nerfed? 00:31:30 oh haha 00:31:47 with 27 necromancy and max piety you sometimes get 0 corpses 00:31:53 haha, wow 00:32:50 the average is probably 1.5 corpses 00:32:57 damn 00:33:10 hope that gets unnerfed for 0.9 00:34:05 although getting a ring of eight corpses at every opportunity was, to be fair, a bit too much 00:34:36 ya, instant army of large aboms 00:34:57 you can get 0 corpses? really? that's a bug :P 00:35:03 yes, really 0 00:35:12 the message surprised me when I first saw it 00:37:42 Kikubaaqudgha can find no cadavers for you! 00:38:32 perhaps the formula could just be necro/3, capped at your number of piety stars, with a fuzz of one or two 00:42:56 it's currently capped at 5 apparently 00:43:09 it should be max(1, ) 00:46:09 it seems better in trunk than 0.8, but it's probably just higher power in my trunk/wizmode/27necr testing 00:49:50 oh wow, kiku just delivered me a golden dragon corpse, I don't remember that ever happening before 00:50:05 ok, it's still possible to get 0 in trunk, but it took a lot of tries before I got it 00:50:18 wensley: you can't get a hide that way 00:50:23 ah 01:39:17 Received very little xp for killing Mennas. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4018) by elliptic 01:40:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:40 Deedee the Black Belt (L15 SETm) (D:14) 02:14:37 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:18 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:18 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:36 Ecumenical Temple under cloud of flame (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4019) by CrudeOil 02:46:29 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 02:58:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:41 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:06 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:52:03 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 04:03:06 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:33 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:17 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:13:20 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:08 !tell elliptic the tourney0.8 rules don't list the Vestibule or hells as excluded from the "branchless" game even though they are branches from Crawl's point of view. Is that correct? 04:40:08 kilobyte: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 04:51:46 it is 04:52:09 he decided not to make it completely branchless because hells are hard and hell 3 runers are fun to watch 04:56:34 how are you supposed to do branchless? 04:56:40 3 pan, 2 pan + 1 abyss? 05:00:48 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:05:50 I'm trying a branchless game... around D:16 it gets damn hard and at D:22 you have to kite every single non-underdepth enemy 05:06:12 of course, spriggans are made for kiting, it's just takes a long time 05:08:09 so far I had to totally skip only Mara. If every single spell from him takes you to teen hp it's not wise to give him a single try (I did 5 suicide attempts so far) 05:08:36 and he has a demon trident I need for a trove... 05:33:28 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:52 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:38:12 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:05 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:04:59 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:00 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:09:03 -!- ZorbaBeta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:13 -!- ZorbaBeta has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:37 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:41 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:41 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:17:08 everone: FR TIME DRAGON! 06:38:46 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39:46 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:49 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:43:27 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:34 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49:24 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:50:55 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:03 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:53 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:53 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:02:09 03galehar * r2f43130a5494 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Really fix trap logic in travel code (#4017). 07:02:21 03galehar * ra10fe4110076 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Tiles: mark fleeing monsters with an exclamation mark (Curio). 07:02:21 03galehar * r76580bb2aa83 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): SKill menu: change #ifdef DEBUG by DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS. 07:31:44 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:59:31 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:40 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:56 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:45 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:12 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:13:34 -!- ophanim is now known as Shoolanim 10:13:38 -!- Shoolanim is now known as schoolanim 10:19:44 Morning 10:19:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:30 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:11 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:13 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:08:48 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:17:46 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:51 -!- ais523 is now known as ais523_ 11:18:58 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 11:19:40 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:11 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:04 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:34 Manual lacks section on felids (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4020) by anym 11:48:08 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:42 Rotting clean chunks treated as clean rather than contaminated for Hill Orcs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4021) by anym 12:11:13 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:17 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 12:11:17 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:32 kilobyte: I didn't think of the Troves issue. Gross! 12:15:23 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:48 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 12:39:42 newuser (L7 DEWz) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 913: Unknown monster spell 'Petrify' cast by Saegor's ghost (D:6) 12:41:08 newuser (L7 DEWz) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 913: Unknown monster spell 'Petrify' cast by Saegor's ghost (D:6) 12:41:24 hmm, that's one of those times when you see an error message and know more or less instantly what you did to cause it 13:03:07 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:07 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 13:03:07 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:09 03kilobyte * r802fb9fb3f59 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Actually let monsters cast Petrify. 13:18:12 03kilobyte * ra3054076018c 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Mark attempts to re-petrify as harmless. 13:18:17 03kilobyte * rb5fb55f9e752 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Remove a leftover debugging statement. 13:30:07 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:20 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:47 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:21 what's the 'party line' on pulling in external libraries? Is anything useful, not enormous and GPL-compatible in play? 14:02:49 -!- degroves has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:22 noticed a very serious security issue - how do we report them? 14:05:52 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:07:15 degroves: I suppose you'd PM one of the devs in charge, if it's the sort of thing that could be used to hack people's computers merely by having Crawl installed 14:07:33 it seems hard to see how you'd have a major security issue in a non-setuid/setgid roguelike, though 14:07:43 if it just allows people to cheat at their games, you may as well report it publicly 14:07:50 no, but it could allow people to play other peoples games in the new 'web-sockets'... 14:07:57 :-( 14:08:14 so, not wanting to say it publicly. 14:08:23 people have a lot of time in their chars. 14:10:18 ...awesome bug is awesome... 14:11:06 degroves: ah, I see 14:11:11 probably best to report it to a websockets dev 14:11:36 where is that? might I ask? 14:12:03 because, frankly - I think the websockets are the best thing that ever happened to a rouge-like game… ;-) 14:12:30 its like watching 'foodball' for geeks. 14:12:44 NetHack's had that for a while, without even needing HTML5, but it didn't really catch on 14:12:49 (there was webtiles in last year's /dev/null) 14:12:52 degroves: you've confirmed that the exploit works? ("could allow people") 14:12:56 but it's nice seeing it working in Crawl too 14:14:15 @bmh - ugh, lets just say after 11 years of web application security work - I know one when I see one… ;-) 14:14:30 degroves: want to 'sploit my game? 14:15:13 no, CMA in the UK - that would be a crime. 14:15:16 :-) 14:15:36 it's cool, we could just take out a superinjunction and make it all hush-hush 14:15:40 i wonder if mantis has support for private issues 14:15:57 looks like it does but i've no idea how it's set up, maybe just pm edlothiol? 14:15:58 MarvinPA: you can report an issue as private. I'm not sure who can see it at that point. 14:16:03 yeah, me neither 14:34:39 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 14:44:42 Arvid the Ruffian (L6 TrBe) ASSERT(in_bounds(p)) in 'items.cc' at line 1921 failed on turn 3333. (D:5) 14:45:24 any clue on how one compiles a osx terminal binary that is similar to those in linux? 14:45:27 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:27 -!- jld has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:35 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:46 the current 'termina.app' distro is not my style.... 14:46:04 degroves: if you want something Linux-like, the compile chain for POSIX stuff is more or less the same on OS X as it is on Linux, although you have to install many of the programs involved by hand 14:46:21 I'm not sure which Linux terminals run on OS X, though, although I suspect xterm does 14:46:22 perhaps you could get something with homebrew? 14:46:52 does hombrew have a crawl recipie? 14:48:13 doubt it 14:48:30 crawl is trivial to build from source on OSX 14:49:22 really? make 14:49:22 cat: util/release_ver: No such file or directory 14:49:22 cat: util/release_ver: No such file or directory 14:49:22 ********************************************************** 14:49:22 The 'zlib' directory exists, but the Makefile is missing! 14:49:23 Did 'git submodule update' work properly? 14:49:23 (It's probably better to install all native dependencies instead.) 14:49:24 ********************************************************** 14:49:25 make[1]: *** [zlib] Error 1 14:49:25 make: *** [.contrib-libs] Error 2 14:50:18 Mmh, pastespam. 14:50:42 degroves: Well, did you follow the fine instructions to pull the submodules in? 14:51:07 sorry zoa. 14:51:19 updating submodules… :-/ 14:51:28 lame, and then I learned to *read* 14:52:12 (the instructions on the site and quickstart.txt also mentions this :D) 14:53:56 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away 14:54:11 thanks. 14:54:15 got to run. 14:54:20 -!- degroves has left ##crawl-dev 15:23:59 hm, so did degroves report his exploit somewhere? 15:30:07 !tell degroves please pm me about your exploit, or write me an email, or a pm in the forum 15:30:07 edlothiol: OK, I'll let degroves know. 15:31:42 -!- bmh_away is now known as bmh 15:32:57 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:30 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:20 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:53 -!- schoolanim is now known as ophanim 16:20:46 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:08 Autoexplore not stopping on undiscovered stairs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4022) by battaile 16:50:59 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 17:13:37 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:04 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:37:49 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:11 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:00 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:47:27 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:33 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:19 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:17:33 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:20:32 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:02 Erroneous "tried on" information on unknown scrolls (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4023) by Tonfa 19:33:53 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:35:18 so... how does one go about designing a level generator? 19:56:42 tizzy (L21 DSWz) (D:21) 20:39:07 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:38 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:20 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:05 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:35 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:01 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:47 nhargobange (L7 MuNe) (D:6) 23:00:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:34 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:01 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 23:38:23 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:16 kave3011 (L11 MfTm) ERROR: range check error (52 / 52) (D:10)