00:03:03 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-270-g10c732a (32) 00:03:59 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-270-g10c732a (32) 00:18:54 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-270-g10c732a 00:50:59 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:16 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:49 is there a function that appends to an item's inscription? 01:00:41 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:20 -!- Zaba_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:45 moin 01:24:22 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:44 -!- whiskeynim is now known as ophanim 01:40:19 03zaba * r0b725ba857a2 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Properly terminate a random_choose_weighted in plan_4. 01:48:16 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 02:03:10 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:19:14 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:10 -!- ZorbaTHut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:25 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:04 -!- Fangorn_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:35 -!- Fangorn_ has quit [Quit: Fangorn_] 03:04:25 zot:5 looks gross now 03:12:58 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:40 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:09 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:16 i have a bug 04:04:20 you can't swing at trees 04:04:23 to hit them 04:04:31 i have a quarterstaff of chaos 04:04:51 this should get me access to that stupid altar of veh with trees around it 04:06:31 not a bug, you aren't supposed to be able to melee trees 04:11:39 why not? 04:11:50 in the spirit of roguelikes i suggest you should 04:12:03 but they only get damage by fire or lightning 04:12:07 or something 04:12:19 gvdm: O_o 04:12:23 this is crawl, notnethack. 04:12:23 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:26 i have myself personally meleed trees on several occasions 04:12:41 you cannot melee walls, nor can you meleeinanimate statues, nor can you melee stairs. 04:12:46 picked up an axe and went to 04:12:56 "it's a big fucking tree" 04:12:58 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:49 and a hominid armed with a sharp implement is more than capable of inflicting damage on a 'big fucking tree' 04:14:16 what if these trees had 10000HP 04:14:23 ... i mean huge 04:14:25 like massive 04:15:08 ok, 10000hp, but with massive fire weakness 04:15:13 look, the trees are even immune to firestorm 04:15:17 your axe isn't about to work 04:15:21 if crawl's bushes had 40AC just imaging what the trees have ... 04:15:22 wtf 04:15:55 how am i supposed to access the altar for veh? 04:16:08 i thought fire worked 04:16:10 wand of fire or lightning or fireball 04:16:28 or the spells 04:16:31 at least I think fireball works 04:16:38 fireball works 04:16:40 why not firestorm then? 04:16:50 that makes _no_ sense 04:16:51 because that's an actual bug :P 04:17:14 just make trees burnable and hittable 04:17:21 they are burnable 04:17:44 why can't i burn it with my fire attack on my quarterstaf then? 04:17:49 a staff of fire whould work too 04:17:55 any item with flame 04:17:59 because this is not nethack. 04:18:11 due, you keep saying that, but what do you mean? 04:18:18 ... 04:18:32 as, in why disallow it because of nethack? 04:19:00 i can't see it upsetting game balance 04:19:07 or being used for grinding/summing 04:19:12 scumming 04:19:16 gvdm: if it makes you feel better about it, imagine that these are really sturdy trees and you need powerful raw magical fire to burn them... not of this weak fire brand stuff 04:19:23 or introducing a crazy tactic 04:19:53 gvdm: http://static1.123teachme.com/cms_images/funny/worlds%20largest%20tree.jpg 04:20:17 due: Just a thought.. How does that fit in a dungeon? 04:20:36 how does shoals fit in a dungeon 04:20:47 i.e. there's no point in asking 04:20:55 dungeon of holding 04:21:10 (because the question assumes that the dungeon jives with reality) 04:21:10 it's magic! 04:21:14 er, the dungeon is not as small as you think it is? 04:21:17 monqy: I always thought you kind of left the dungeon when you went to shoals/swamp. 04:21:22 i actually consider the nonhittability of trees to be a bug 04:21:25 So you're outside for a bit. 04:21:32 grine: then why are there stairs? 04:21:37 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:40 they are magical stairs 04:21:44 gvdm: good for you. 04:21:45 moin 04:21:48 elliptic: Because this is a game! 04:21:49 : 04:21:50 :D 04:21:52 theink narnia 04:21:57 and coats 04:21:58 Napkin, moin, there have been some complaints about trunk being broken on cdo 04:22:08 gvdm: what about the nonhittability of all other features 04:22:12 like how, Zaba? 04:22:21 no gameplay effects 04:22:24 Blah, I guess some of the dungeon rooms are just REALLY big. 04:22:31 this has a gameplay effect 04:22:35 gvdm: you should clearly be able to hit shops really hard to get the loot without paying for it 04:22:43 that or remove this fricking altar 04:22:44 that has a gameplay effect too! 04:22:46 Napkin, 2011-04-23T12:42:05 < Liam> this is the message /bin/crawl-svn=10c732a: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version GLIBCXX_3.4.11 not found 04:22:52 gvdm: you should clearly be able to pulverise statues that are blocking your path 04:23:01 Napkin, < Liam> error: unknown encoding 04:23:04 with crushing maybe 04:23:06 an, cool 04:23:08 yes 04:23:09 but back to this altar 04:23:24 this altar is the only one i am likely to find in this game 04:23:26 gvdm: there's also an altar vault where you have to levitate 04:23:32 it is surrounded by trees 04:23:37 gvdm: you are guaranteed to find other altars this game 04:23:44 gvdm: Go look for a fire wand? 04:23:44 ok, when i 04:23:50 'm like XL15 04:23:52 they probably won't be vehumet altars, but who said you had to go vehumet? 04:23:56 which i won't reach 04:24:47 i have such *immense* pity for your pain. in fact, my pity is almost as immense as the trees of the dungeon! 04:26:40 i have such *immense* respect for your sarcasm 04:27:03 excellent, we're on even footing then. 04:37:17 -!- SirVaulterScoff has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:27 Hi 04:37:51 i've got a strange error on CDO (trunk) 04:38:04 '/bin/crawl-svn-10c732a: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by /bin/crawl-svn-10c732a) ' 04:38:18 is it just me, or a general trouble with trunk on CDO ? 04:38:51 SirVaulterScoff: Napkin is looking into it, iirc. 04:39:06 due: thanks 04:39:25 Is there a list of charm spells somewhere? 04:39:38 grine: ##crawl is that-away and would know. 04:39:38 Oh there 04:39:52 sorry due :P 04:41:09 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:34 Am I the only one who thinks brands could be elemental/tmut instead of charms? 04:47:52 what do they transmute? 04:48:14 Your weapon 04:50:47 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:02 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:12 omg.. 05:00:13 kilobyte? 05:00:18 are you in? 05:04:21 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:19:32 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22:42 Cloud squares are blank in display. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3861) by nubinia 05:23:11 that bug is because i'm upgrading the chroot right now 05:28:50 Dmmit, why can't I build today? 05:39:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:05 ok, chroot on CDO is upgraded now 05:49:14 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:37 & i closed nubinia's bug report 05:54:47 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:58:55 Napkin: thanks, trunk on CDO works fine 05:59:11 great :) 06:17:46 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:56 -!- evilmike has quit [] 06:33:30 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:35 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:13 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:18 friendly shop mimic break autoexplore (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3862) by galehar 07:41:38 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:58 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:30 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:32 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:44 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:33 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 08:23:14 -!- SirVaulterScoff has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:23:25 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:51 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:13 -!- SirVaulterScoff has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:50 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:12 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:48:50 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:25 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:06 elliptic: fireball can destroy trees (only on direct hit, not its splash), so I guess there's no reason to block Firestorm 09:06:24 it's not like you lack the Fire+Conj skills 09:08:13 firestorm should create a massive forest fire imo, I doubt it matters much either way 09:11:22 if you can cast it, you are so limited in spell power... 09:12:12 not to mention that all branches with vaults which include trees are trivial when you have firestorm 09:12:45 D:26 and one Crypt ending are the deepest ones IIRC 09:19:13 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:24 kilobyte: zot:5 looks absurd now it's stone is lightgrey 09:37:30 -!- iekko has left ##crawl-dev 09:38:19 corners and random walls of grey among the pink walls 09:43:39 yes 09:54:37 it looks this way in tiles 09:55:45 but indeed, changing that might be good. I wonder about: 1. magenta stone, or 2. no stone at all. 09:56:38 what's wrong with the way it used to be 09:57:43 zotdef is still bugged so that all the monsters stop moving and you can just run around and slaughter them 10:00:00 doy: spoilers 10:00:26 spoilers how? 10:00:44 elliptic: I guess we'll have to disable ZotDef, if we're to release tomorrow :( 10:01:14 you need to know that some of the walls are diggable while others are not 10:01:36 that's pretty apparent by examining the wall 10:01:39 (or play tiles, or redefine stone to be != rock != permarock != metal != crystal, like I do) 10:01:44 is release tomorrow actually happening then? there is at least one open bug I would consider pretty major 10:02:01 you mean, are you supposed to 'x' every wall you come upon? 10:02:21 i mean, i don't think wasting a single digging charge is that big of a deal 10:02:40 kilobyte: you already have to 'x' walls in lots of places to tell whether something is transparent rock or transparent stone 10:03:36 stone vs permarock on zot:5 only matters for corruption, LRD and shatter - the player is going to x around the walls if trying to use them anyway 10:03:52 transparent rock can be found in a few places per game, regular rock on about every single level 10:04:39 what does that have to do with anything 10:04:46 zot:5 rock can only be found on one level though 10:04:46 st_: not anymore, Elf remains the only place with lightgrey rock, and there you can notice the lack of a pattern on real stone so it's not a big deal 10:06:44 elliptic: yeah, so players who suspect it might be different will 'x' to one square of wall and see what it is 10:07:49 players who cast lrd at all will x to the wall, because that's part of the process of casting it 10:09:33 yet there's no reason to suspect one piece of wall might be different 10:10:09 this is something that you'll figure out pretty easily, i really don't see what spoilers have to do with anything 10:13:30 the final area of the game shouldn't look all patchwork and weird 10:14:08 or any area but this is more important than anywhere else 10:14:39 can make the stone in the zot:5 vault of appropriate color as an exception, if aesthetics are important 10:14:53 "you mean, like it was previously" 10:15:39 gameplay > aesthetics 10:16:02 LRDing that vault doesn't give any significant advantage though, or more people would do that 10:16:03 this is an incredibly minor effect on gameplay 10:16:29 in that case, I'd make them (perma)rock 10:16:34 many many more people are going to notice the aesthetic effects vs the gameplay effects 10:16:41 gameplay > aesthetics, hence we should have squarelos 10:16:46 +1 10:17:02 st_: how would squarelos improve gameplay? 10:17:20 ... 10:17:29 haha 10:17:30 right 10:17:44 i mean 10:17:47 hahaha 10:17:57 i don't even know how to respond to that 10:18:02 it 1. degrades it a good deal (chess rules), 2. makes the game more obscure, 3. degrades aesthetics 10:18:18 2. being the biggest reason for marking stone as such 10:18:44 kilobyte never has listened to anything anybody else has said about squarelos ever, apparently 10:18:51 it's pretty apparent 10:18:57 but really I don't want to get into that discussion right now 10:20:11 is the change to zot:5 stone color a 0.9 thing? 10:21:27 seems rather non-urgent if so... plenty of time to figure out the best way to improve aesthetics while removing the slight spoily nature of it 10:21:28 yeah, obviously 10:25:39 it looks like the permawalls on zot:5 are the same color as rock still? 10:26:20 03kilobyte * r8ff00f8f2263 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't spawn millions of hatches out of Orc. 10:26:23 which is not that good either... 10:26:31 03kilobyte * r700ffab81bc4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile util/gen-cflg.pl version.cc version.h): Include build and runtime architectures in version info. 10:26:42 03kilobyte * r731af19d831c 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Disallow Burn Spellbooks and Ponderousify while silenced. 10:26:43 03kilobyte * r278d22c112c9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc makefile util/gen_ver.pl version.cc version.h): Fix patched stable versions being "devel", sanitize gen_ver.pl, rip unused junk. 10:26:55 kilobyte: the millions of hatches are a larger problem outside of Orc 10:27:03 oh is that what the commit message means 10:27:50 I assumed "out of Orc" = leaving Orc, oops 10:27:53 I reverted jpeg's change outside Orc... which is bad but a proper fix would be hard to do quickly :( 10:28:25 yeah, that was the "open bug I would consider pretty major" I mentioned earlier 10:29:50 the most annoying 0.8 bug I know of now is https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3303 10:32:11 -!- gvdm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:24 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:31 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:10 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 10:38:11 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:38 ??autoinscribe 10:39:38 I don't have a page labeled autoinscribe in my learndb. 10:40:39 -!- frogfrog has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:17 a fair amount of the stone in the zot:5 vault could really just be turned into permawall, I think 10:43:25 what's the point in having it partly stone and partly permarock, anyway 10:45:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:33 it is sort of cool that you can bypass a lot of the walking in the vault by using LRD/shatter, but that doing so (especially shatter) will wake monsters up and cause you them to mob you 10:47:44 yeah 10:47:47 also good that some walls are breakable by corruption 10:47:57 but some of the stone walls are simply irrelevant to this 10:49:28 I think removing a lot of the stone walls and making the others into red stone or magenta stone or whatever could work 10:49:45 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:58 -!- frogfrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:00:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:01:34 so I'm trying to write a bit of code to add an inscription to an item, but it looks like there are only two functions that do that, the player interface and the autoinscribe interface. what does autoinscription do, generally? I'm trying to break as few things as possible :) 11:03:07 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:08 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:04:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:13 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:30 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:16 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:37:17 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:58:29 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:02 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:00:04 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:35 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:01 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:12 -!- gvdm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:25 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:21 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:39 where does the output from dprf go? 12:25:22 the message area 12:25:33 in debug builds 12:25:52 oh, that'd do it :) 12:26:00 what's the flag for compiling with debug mode? 12:26:10 you compile the 'debug' target 12:26:43 thanks 12:45:35 so I have the inventory letter of an item and I can get the item_info of that item, but how do I get the item_def of that item? 12:47:18 seems like I've fixed #3410 12:50:41 < Melum> So I have learned Trog can gift you distortion weapons. 12:50:46 this should be changed imo 12:51:47 would make some sense to reserve distortion gifts for lugonu, yes 12:51:58 yeah, holy too if trog can gift those 12:52:06 he can iirc 12:52:12 also pain, though i'd hope he's banned from gifting those already 12:52:16 oka though 12:53:52 oka shouldn't gift any of the three either i'd say 12:54:32 yeah 12:57:07 "reserving distortion gifts for lugonu" doesn't make much sense when warp weapon exists 12:57:25 same with pain and whatever the pain brand spell is 12:58:03 mm, i wouldn't particularly mind warp weapon/excruciating wounds not existing either, personally 12:58:32 removing warp weapon is kinda meh, there aren't enough good high level tloc spells as it is 12:58:36 although excruciating wounds at least has the noise on casting to make it a little more interesting 12:58:39 although i agree thematically 13:00:20 there should be more "special" brands though, like dragon slaying except not worthless 13:00:51 heh, yeah 13:01:24 silver would be good if it weren't so weird and complicated 13:01:42 silver isn't really a brand though, is it? 13:01:50 and i thought we fixed all the weirdness 13:02:11 it's amazing against orbs of fire and things, i think 13:02:14 ??silver 13:02:15 silver[1/1]: In 0.6, +5% damage per mutation (up to *2), double vs shapechangers, corporeal undead, mutaters, ugly things, abominations, Tiamat, Killer Klowns, chaos spawns, orbs of fire. No demons or ghostlies! 13:02:35 not a particularly intuitive list :P 13:02:44 hmmm, yeah 13:02:49 that is still pretty confusing 13:03:07 i think it'd be good for it to purely be anti-chaos 13:03:15 !learn edit silver[1] s/, orbs of fire// 13:03:16 silver[1/1]: In 0.6, +5% damage per mutation (up to *2), double vs shapechangers, corporeal undead, mutaters, ugly things, abominations, Tiamat, Killer Klowns, chaos spawns. No demons or ghostlies! 13:03:21 (they are mutaters) 13:03:28 I think it'd be cool to make it focus on damaging mutaters, yeah 13:03:35 it's sorta zin's color 13:03:35 mutators, tiamat, killer clowns, and chaos spawns should probably be removed 13:03:38 yeah 13:03:51 since including corporeal undead but not incorporeal is what i think makes it really weird, as well as overlapping with holy wrath 13:04:18 does it really not work on mutating demons like cacodemons and neqoxecs? 13:04:28 or does "No demons" mean something else 13:04:48 it does, i think 13:05:10 yeah 13:06:00 the "evil" flag is automatically assigned if an enemy knows certain spells, yeah? could it be the same thing for a "chaos" flag? I think it'd be cool for tso to be the anti-evil god, with zin the anti-chaos god 13:06:21 there already is that chaos flag 13:06:28 @??shapeshifter 13:06:28 shapeshifter (04O) | Speed: 3-30 | HD: 6 | Health: 10-107 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 17, 13 | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(56) | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 361 | Sp: (random). 13:06:29 silver just affects other stuff, too :P 13:06:40 Here: A neqoxec (heavily wounded, chaotic) 13:06:48 ah, right. 13:07:20 !learn edit silver[1] s/ No demons or ghostlies!// 13:07:21 silver[1/1]: In 0.6, +5% damage per mutation (up to *2), double vs shapechangers, corporeal undead, mutaters, ugly things, abominations, Tiamat, Killer Klowns, chaos spawns. 13:07:50 !learn edit silver[1] s/In 0.6, // 13:07:51 silver[1/1]: +5% damage per mutation (up to *2), double vs shapechangers, corporeal undead, mutaters, ugly things, abominations, Tiamat, Killer Klowns, chaos spawns. 13:09:23 why is silver_damages_victim in item_use.cc :( 13:09:43 ranged combat is scary 13:18:32 ok, so how about making silver just damage innately chaotic things, and also making it do 1.5* damage instead of 2*? 13:18:42 2* is sort of crazy, both vs monsters and players 13:19:18 IMO 1.75, same as holy wrath 13:19:30 or that, yeah 13:19:32 also if we are talking ammo, steel does 1.5 versus everything 13:19:32 innately chaotic also mutated, i think 13:19:40 mutated players, yeah 13:19:40 you probably mean melee brand though? 13:19:57 well, there is no silver melee brand (yet) 13:20:08 right now i was just adjusting the ranged brand 13:20:15 silvered weapons would be cool 13:20:19 well don't make it strictly worse than steel 13:20:32 (nerfing steel would work for this also) 13:20:39 did we ever make a distinction between material and brands? 13:20:46 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:47 i did plan on doing that at some point, too, yeah 13:20:48 can poisoned steel arrows exist? 13:21:07 no 13:22:17 i've never really changed any ranged combat balance stuff because i don't have much experience with it, but the 0.8 plan has mentioned nerfing the high end of it for quite a long time at least (since it was 0.7 plan, i think) 13:22:42 but as far as i understand it steel is pretty crazy, anyway 13:23:10 nessos should have poisoned flaming steel arrows 13:23:21 Of reaping. 13:24:59 we need a masochistic big kobold unique who poisons you and then casts ignite poison 13:25:20 we need /someone/ to cast ignite poison, after all? 13:25:49 marvinpa: ranged combat balance is really strange 13:26:05 there is quite high dependence on the to-dam enchantment of your launcher 13:26:49 yeah, i really wouldn't know where to start with it, and i find playing ranged combat really tedious so i don't have any experience to build off :P 13:27:04 so there is usually a big jump in power when you find/enchant a +7-9 launcher 13:28:54 i quite like the idea of doing away with ammo enchantments entirely, both for easier balance and better playability 13:29:22 that will pretty much destroy mulching balance 13:29:48 well, base mulch rate could be lowered 13:30:13 ammo enchantments aren't as important as people think 13:30:25 since their impact on mulching already got nerfed 13:30:33 but they make ammo management orders of magnitude more painful 13:31:35 yeah, I think removing their enchantments could help a lot, combined with a better damage formula 13:31:53 base mulch rate will have to be lowered dramatically then 13:32:55 doy: well, even +9 ammo is only 4 times less likely to break than +0 ammo 13:34:00 and ammo would stack better, and you wouldn't have to worry about needing to wait for enough ammo to enchant 13:34:04 does bow/crossbow skill have any bearing on mulch rate? 13:34:05 so I don't think mulching is an issue 13:34:07 no 13:35:36 feels as though a better archer would be able to fire her arrows/bolts without striking bone or sticking in ribs 13:36:15 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 13:36:30 also FR: ballista, a GSC-esque crossbow that fires javelins 13:37:36 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:15 < Wensley> we need a masochistic big kobold unique who poisons you and then casts ignite poison 13:38:20 ignite poison doesn't affect the caster any more 13:38:33 however, the code to affect players is still in, so there should definitely be a unique who has it 13:38:45 Eronarn: in that case, give him a cadre of kobold followers 13:39:36 seems kind of pointless, he'd kill them all in one cast 13:39:43 ok well, a proposal for stuff that i actually understand somewhat: 13:39:53 -remove projected noise 13:40:00 silver to 1.5* damage against chaotic stuff and mutated players, steel to 1.3* damage 13:40:50 Eronarn: the idea is that all his kobold followers with poison needles and blowguns get a chance to poison you for a round, at which point he casts ignite poison 13:41:06 and yes, obliterates his own dudes, but this is great 13:41:39 i don't see what's great about that, it would be a pretty boring unique in practice 13:42:45 MarvinPA: i think steel doing 1.75 is fine, given the limited number of targets 13:42:54 er, silver 13:43:38 there are some big names on the list (tiamat, orbs) but a lot of important stuff isn't on it 13:44:06 if 1.75 is too high this says more about the rest of the formula imo 13:44:07 what is it multiplying, base damage or something more? 13:44:28 overall damage 13:46:02 actually iirc steel/silver isn't exactly multiplying damage 13:46:08 because ranged combat is awful 13:46:15 :( 13:46:27 crash entering Zot for the first time with "Unable to generate level for 'Zot:1'!" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3863) by Joellercoaster 13:46:59 maybe just gut the current formula :P 13:47:39 .tell cryptic hurry up with that fight rewrite so you can do ranged combat next 13:47:41 :P 13:48:29 personally i'd like to see a system where melee and ranged used essentially the same formulas 13:48:43 there really don't need to be as many differences as there are right now 13:49:14 -!- DrPraetor|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:25 i think cryptic hoped to do that in the long run? but was starting off with just melee, since otherwise it'd take forever and break everything i imagine 13:49:43 MarvinPA: well, he's not even changing the melee formula right now 13:49:48 just the structure melee code is called in 13:50:05 right, and unifying monster/player stuff? 13:50:29 yes, to some degree (some stuff can't be unified, but some stuff should have been unified previously and is just duplicated code right now because it wasn't) 13:51:13 i don't think we should expect him to redo the melee calculations - that is something entirely separate 13:51:57 for redoing those, i think we need to take a perspective of 'how effective should this combination of weapons be' approach 13:52:15 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:52:29 rather than just trying to keep tweaking acc/dam values... all that will do is result in a new weapon being king 13:52:35 right, and that would require getting into thinking about the factors that affect melee and so on 13:52:39 yeah 13:53:15 and also about the stats of enemies - what's the distribution of high EV vs. high AC enemies across the game 13:54:39 then of course there's the unarmed can of worms 13:54:55 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:14 i think it's going to be pretty impossible to balance, especially with the existence of blade hands 14:14:45 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:44 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:18 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:14 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:10 Bad wording on death reason when using a wand of fireball (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3864) by kurzedmetal 16:04:11 "The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs the worker ant. You kill the worker ant! You have reached level 5! You have gained the ability to fly. You die..." <-- I'd consider the delayed death message itself a bug if it wasn't hilariously cruel 16:05:09 Wensley: it's actually not a bug: you might survive the effect of the wand if you gained a level 16:05:21 -!- SirVaulterScoff has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:21 ah, true 16:05:43 i had that happen once with killing an ogre with poison the same turn that it hit me 16:05:47 or something like that 16:06:00 that's super great, I love it 16:06:10 oh wait no, it was a lava orc, the passive heat 16:06:52 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:18 Start fails with "Unable to generate level for 'D:1'!" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3865) by vonbrand 16:19:01 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 16:31:19 I think I've run into a display bug on CDO http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/Gandelf-e8f19cc-110423-2126.cs I see a blue square only, where There is a deep blue altar of Sif Muna, spattered with blood here. Things that are here: an elven robe; an elven buckler; a knife (and the field probably also has some mycelium) 16:52:29 channel.monster_damage = color isn't respected (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3866) by kurzedmetal 17:17:34 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:21 03MarvinPA * rf1a820028310 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc item_use.cc): Reduce steel damage bonus to 30% 17:24:31 03MarvinPA * r3b5977b3c7cd 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Make weapon and armour unrandarts a bit rarer 17:24:32 03MarvinPA * r3d643ff0c88b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc item_use.cc): Make silver affect only chaotic/shapechanged/mutated creatures, reduce damage bonus to 75% 17:24:33 03MarvinPA * r06993f66d5f9 10/crawl-ref/source/attitude-change.cc: Don't let Mennas speak when turning neutral 17:32:58 regarding the mennas fix: just because he doesn't have a tongue doesn't mean he can't speak :P 17:33:28 sure it does, that's basically the entire concept of his character 17:34:50 yeah, doy is right. Curse skulls might use magic to talk, but they use magic for all other activities too. 17:37:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:41 I don't mean that he'd be intelligible, only that "Carry on, mortal." would roughly map to "Gawy om, morhaw." 17:38:32 right, but his whole flavour was choosing to stay silent instead of renounce his god 17:39:05 so i imagine he's happy to continue not to speak, rather than mumble unintelligibly :P 17:39:18 I accept this explanation :) 17:39:46 although the holy conversion speech still needs tweaking with the new holies 17:40:10 since now apises and pearl dragons can't speak to you anymore at least, but they can still salute you somehow :P 17:40:34 cute 17:40:39 haha, well... I suppose intelligent magical beasts could at least bow, or be otherwise deferent 17:43:08 isn't an apis just a stupid cow? 17:43:21 well, the rest of the non-speech options are things like "is calmed by your holy aura" and "relaxes its fighting stance", so those fit most things at least 17:43:30 I_ANIMAL 17:43:37 yeah 17:44:08 i like the idea of an ophan frowning at you and refusing to turn neutral, what with being completely covered in eyes :P 17:44:22 <3 17:47:40 kilobyte: I coded a little patch for this implementable: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=373 that does two things: adds an option to suppress the butchery weapon swap messages, and adds an option to autoinscribe your butchery weapon with !a. Any thoughts? 17:49:38 Wensley: ghallberg is already working on an actual solution to it 17:49:46 should hopefully be done soon 17:49:49 ah, okay. I didn't see it claimed 17:50:48 hiding butchery swap would be good but only if the implicit knive idea will fail or be postponed 17:51:32 ie, I'm afraid your work is very likely to be irrelevant soon 17:51:33 Yeah I'll be finishing it this week. 17:51:57 Been building stuff and doing easter stuff with the family. 17:52:07 kilobyte: no worries, at this point everything I do teaches me more about how the code works :) 17:52:29 i just this second pulled and remade crawl and it crashes the moment i get past character generation before i even see the dungeon 17:53:37 -!- ophanim is now known as wontonanim 17:54:52 oh hm, yeah 17:54:57 the same as this: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3865 ? 17:57:15 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:57:48 VETO: D:1: Failed to add connecting escape hatches. 17:58:27 probably kilobyte's change from earlier 17:59:32 reverting 8ff00f8f seems to fix it, yeah 17:59:37 -!- effo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:52 does anybody here use git and emacs for the work they do with crawl 18:00:11 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:26 everybody that works on crawl uses git 18:00:36 yeah given 18:00:40 I guess I worded that poorly 18:01:07 I just switched OS and I'm trying to get all the right components 18:01:15 so I was just wondering what people used 18:01:18 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:20 hmm, before 210e41d0 that function returned false and it was still fine 18:01:26 git from shell and then edit in w/e? 18:01:37 effo: that's what i do (i use vim) 18:02:42 does vim have any ide-like plugins? I was considering emacs so that I didn't have to use the mouse at all, but it seems like a lot of the plugins have confusing documentation 18:02:53 I can't figure out if I set up cedet and EBC properly 18:03:11 i use nano pretty much exclusively 18:03:20 i rarely feel a need to use more than that 18:03:23 that depends entirely on what you mean by "ide-like" 18:03:52 all I really look for is one program I can use to edit the file and also compile what I'm working on 18:04:00 I guess with a big project using the command line is best 18:04:11 I'm not used to working on a single file within a large project 18:04:36 I probably just need w/e and terminal 18:08:58 I'm gonna check out vim 18:10:24 anyway I had another quick question: I'm going to test out adding hooks in l_you.cc which allow you to check player's current and max burden. To test my code, I just compile the source, edit my player's .rc file to use a LUA script and see if it can access those stats? 18:11:39 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:34 -!- wontonanim has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:13:17 yeah 18:13:27 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:10 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:32 ok thanks! 18:28:00 Game crashes with assert after intelligence reducing artifact shenanigans. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3867) by Gigalith 18:28:23 03kilobyte * r7658181cf942 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc libutil.cc libutil.h player.cc player.h tags.cc): Warn and allow aborting when transferring a 0.8 game to 0.9. 18:28:30 03kilobyte * rc8a0f14c4b2e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Try with lightred Zot:5 stone. 18:28:31 03kilobyte * r1143071cbe36 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Fix failures to create non-Orc levels. 18:28:42 03kilobyte * re1c58e54414f 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Validate Pan colours; simplify. 18:48:12 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:58:21 03zaba 07stone_soup-0.8 * r7d0a1bec7173 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Make basic_altar "transparent". 18:58:29 03zaba 07stone_soup-0.8 * r90c8ba495a65 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Properly terminate a random_choose_weighted in plan_4. 18:58:30 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r99f5d4f20650 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Fix duplicate inscription on artefact (#3826). 18:58:31 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * ra172643f2e0b 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Remove a forgotten code block in item_use.cc 18:58:31 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r2e3d776ce197 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc main.cc): Force easy exit in the end game inventory menu (#3855). 18:58:34 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r927695cabaf8 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Disallow Burn Spellbooks and Ponderousify while silenced. 18:58:34 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r84017e4869c8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile util/gen-cflg.pl version.cc version.h): Include build and runtime architectures in version info. 18:58:35 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r972f36e91703 10/crawl-ref/source/attitude-change.cc: Don't let Mennas speak when turning neutral 18:58:37 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r7c1fa96d51ef 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't spawn millions of hatches out of Orc (fixed version). 18:58:38 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * rf5e344930347 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc makefile util/gen_ver.pl version.cc version.h): Fix patched stable versions being "devel", sanitize gen_ver.pl, rip unused junk. 18:58:51 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r62b264cead69 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Make weapon and armour unrandarts a bit rarer 19:08:34 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:15:02 -!- dg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:34 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:47 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:00 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 19:33:42 -!- ophanim is now known as sakinim 19:39:11 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:06 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:26 unidentified scrolls of curse jewellery and curse armour autoidentify even if they didn't do anything (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3868) by reid 19:50:29 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:54 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:23 03kilobyte * r70a6d697ae42 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/lair.des mon-movetarget.cc): Fix passable lava at the border of evil_forest Lair ending. 19:58:29 Unable to start (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3869) by Pfhortipfhy 20:01:07 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:01:23 due: this makes your vault ugly :( We'd have to find a better solution. 20:04:39 kilobyte: what was wrong with it? 20:05:27 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:51 I'm just pulling... 20:07:24 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:07:36 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 20:07:38 kilobyte: Gah, I do not like that solution at all; the endless lava was part of the point. Solution: create impassable lava and impassable deep water variations. 20:08:34 open sea except with lava! 20:08:51 since shoals already has an impassable water border 20:09:21 can't the vault be moved away from the border enough so that the walls at the edge aren't visible unless you levitate over the lava? 20:10:13 elliptic: Mapping makes it ugly. 20:10:18 ah 20:10:20 MarvinPA: yes, that's what i meant 20:10:49 also then gehenna could get more lava lakes and lava rivers and lava borders and lava everywhere generally 20:11:02 yes, it doesn't even need a different desceription 20:15:28 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:59 due: so what should we do for 0.8? A large amount of lava like elliptic suggested? 20:18:11 I've no idea. 20:23:26 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:50 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:36:05 crap, the default glyph for open sea is '#'... It's only my config that has it as triple wave. 20:37:05 It should be the same as normal water, imho. 20:37:09 "#" just looks stupid. 20:41:22 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:45 # in shoals at least tells me it's a wall 20:41:54 which is what I want from my interface 20:42:13 * kilobyte half-implemented endless lava, but red # doesn't make that wall good. 20:43:04 (beh, my sis stores her cats with me when she's away for Easter... one climbed the keyboard mid-sentence and didn't accept that it's not the time for petting) 20:43:37 casmith789: yeah, it is a wall for the game's purpose and the interface can't hide that 20:44:23 i think it should be pretty clear that it's a wall if you can't see past it? 20:44:29 or is the point to fake seeing past it 20:45:20 you can see past open sea if there's anything behind it 20:46:20 or reach through, although no maps make it possible (always concave) 20:56:28 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:59:39 -!- sakinim is now known as ophanim 20:59:42 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:03 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:48 I'd like to help out with some coding, any suggestions on what to tackle? I'll take any job, no matter how trivial 21:04:51 doy: the point is faking seeing past it; you see "blackness" at the edge so it kinda looks like an endless sea that just stops -- rather than there being a wall there. 21:05:55 due: well, you'd see that same blackness if there was a wall there though 21:06:04 which is my point 21:06:20 if that's the effect you're going for, why can't open sea and water be the same glyph 21:07:14 due: even just being above lava would cook you alive, realistically. you could restrict lava levitation in this way, if that helps, although I missed the beginning of this conversation 21:07:27 (on the other hand, it'd be cooler if it used a different glyph, but that glyph was duplicated as though you were actually looking out past it 21:07:31 ) 21:08:45 this would also be relevant to the river dungeon layouts 21:09:10 you could also just actually have an endless sea of lava with no wall at all :) 21:11:50 Wensley: you're *really* high up whenyou're levitating 21:15:09 can I ask what this is for? 21:16:28 what what is for? 21:16:33 oh 21:16:36 evil_forest lair ending 21:16:45 some zombies walked onto the map edge and made a person's game crash 21:16:56 too many asserts assume the map border will always be solid. 21:17:29 haha, was it just a field of endless lava? I can't say I've ever gotten that ending, sadly 21:17:45 not... really 22:32:16 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:32 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:18 -!- jpt9 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: cang] 23:17:29 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:35 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:37 -!- MadCoyote has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:43 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]