00:00:08 -!- Eronarn has quit [Quit: Something has gone terribly wrong.] 00:01:14 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:23 03dolorous * r2fcbc8d1a199 10/crawl-ref/source/state.cc: Fix compilation. 00:12:51 Or apparently I had the broken trunl. Whoops 00:17:30 -!- ZChris13 is now known as ZChris13_____ 00:41:37 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:04 -!- ZChris13_____ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:49:07 -!- ZChris13______ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:09 -!- ZChris13______ is now known as ZChris13_____ 01:03:28 -!- ZChris13_____ is now known as ZChris13 01:13:51 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:26 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:50 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:14 03galehar * r1b755426b46d 10/crawl-ref/source/state.cc: Properly fix compilation. 01:54:33 :) 01:54:44 Lolz 01:54:52 how many times have you tried to fix it? 01:54:58 (you being plural) 01:56:41 Twice. 01:56:52 Well, three times, because I said there *was* no break. 01:57:04 What is broken? 02:02:24 I've no idea. 02:03:03 Is it just not compiling? 02:06:42 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:17 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:23 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 02:16:26 Add note when entering a Pan Lord level (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3623) by RangerC 02:50:42 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:42 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:36 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:55 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:02 AHH, ZChris13: the issue was debug builds. 03:14:17 moin 03:19:09 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 04:03:41 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:07:58 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:57 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:26 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:41 does %weight work the same way as weights elsewhere? Because in wall_church, four tiles have %weight 10 and a fifth one %weight 1, and yet they are used in equal proportions. 05:33:46 They should be the same, hm 05:33:57 Might be buggy of course, I guess. 05:37:07 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:35 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:43:35 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:44:21 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:21 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:59:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:59:17 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:00:00 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:00 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:01:42 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:02:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:14 !coffee Zaba 06:09:15 * Henzell hands Zaba a mug of café mocha, brewed by Ijyb. 06:09:22 hiii 06:09:27 Mmm Cython! 06:09:38 You using Cython for something? 06:09:42 Yeah. 06:10:30 Getting all mysterious on us in your old age I see 06:10:36 What are you using it for :P 06:10:48 Hah, I'm playing around with porting bits of Zyzzyva to Python. 06:11:05 I said "screw you" to its weird and complicated anagram "Checker" and wrote my own. 06:11:12 And have gotten slightly obsessed with making it fast. 06:12:27 Nice, I'd never heard of zyzzyva 06:12:31 I have now! 06:13:15 Oh really? 06:13:18 It's an excellent program. 06:14:02 moin greensnark 06:14:23 -!- evilmike has quit [] 06:17:48 Zaba: CHANCE priority is only used for dummy vaults 06:17:58 ah 06:18:02 i.e. if you use priority of 0 06:18:04 so non-zero priorities are all the same 06:18:18 iirc :) 06:18:36 I thought it affected the order in which the vaults are tested against the chance roll, or something 06:18:41 It used to 06:18:51 But that made CHANCE so confusing that nobody understood it 06:19:42 heh. What truly makes CHANCE confusing is that it doesn't apply for normal vaults. 06:23:28 greensnark, the current way of picking and building vaults for a level is such a mess that I still can't put together a correct mental image of it 06:23:44 well, _builder_normal is more or less obvious now 06:23:48 but secondary vaults still aren't 06:24:33 _build_overflow_temples, _place_chance_vaults, _place_minivaults, _place_branch_entrances, _place_extra_vaults, _place_uniques 06:24:39 there has to be a better way to do all of that 06:26:42 _builder_normal can build a PLACE normal vault, or a DEPTH normal vault, or a layout vault 06:29:49 I think it would help if the way the vault is picked (PLACE, DEPTH, CHANCE...) is somehow abstracted away from the dungeon builder code 06:30:33 but... maybe not. 06:32:20 03kilobyte * r541bd51fa752 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: No instant divine retribution -- many gods are abusable. 06:32:28 03kilobyte * rcf169645fa9d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des: Add a note when entering a Pan Lord level (RangerC) 06:32:29 03kilobyte * rd6030e09ca3c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc fight.cc item_use.cc mon-act.cc): Nerf the speed brand. 06:32:29 03kilobyte * r9aa65a686066 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-wall.txt: Disable a tile. 06:32:30 03kilobyte * rb05b354ce03d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Give tiles to a couple altar vaults. 06:36:26 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:44:46 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:47:10 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:50 Okay, enough infuriation! 06:48:33 yeah, it's time to port stuff _from_ Python 06:50:14 03kilobyte * r131662dc3900 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Make Boris prefer to use Morg. 07:04:43 I thought Morg's flavour was that Boris had lost it? 07:05:25 entirely possible that it'd generate on the same floor as him, though! he should use it if so :P 07:10:00 but then the flavour makes no sense. 07:10:02 ??morg 07:10:03 morg[1/1]: Many years ago it was the property of a powerful mage called Boris. He got lost in the Dungeon while seeking the Orb. {-1,+4 dagger; Pain Brand; Magic Resistance; +5 Intelligence} 07:10:09 due: since he lost it, he shouldn't spawn with it... but it'd be strange if he found it but didn't pick it up 07:10:37 :/ 07:10:40 especially with smart-ass players throwing it at him 07:11:15 ohh 07:11:17 the description doesn't explicitly mention that he lost it or anything, just that it used to be his 07:11:30 I thought you'd changed it so he generated with it. 07:11:34 Right, no, that makes sense 07:11:49 also boris with a pain weapon would be fun, so i hope someone does give it to him :P 07:11:58 a player that is 07:13:11 he's MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT so won't currently pick it up 07:27:09 ghouls giving 2.6k xp make the starting vault with those even better if you can get a smiting spell 07:34:04 you probably won't be able to kill them with a smiting spell 07:34:31 their hp is ridiculously high 07:43:55 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:48:23 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:38 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:10 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:17 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:50 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:14 03kilobyte * r70713b3f46d5 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-restr.cc: Disrecommend the Fire/Earth book for Kenku. +3/-1 apts vs -3/+1. 09:32:21 the genlevel script is so useful 09:57:14 !apt ke 09:57:16 Ke: Air: 3!, Armour: 1, Axes: 1, Bows: 1, Charms: -2, Conj: 3!, Xbows: 1, Dodge: 1, Earth: -3*, Evo: 0, Exp: 130, Fighting: 0, Fire: 1, Hexes: -3, Ice: -1, Inv: -2*, Long: 1, Maces: 1, Nec: 1, Poison: 0, Polearms: 1, Shields: 0, Short: 1, Slings: 0, Splcast: 0, Stab: 1, Staves: 1, Stealth: 0, Summ: 2!, Throw: 1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -2, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 09:58:29 now we just need Entarex, btw 10:11:59 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:17 -!- TGWi has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:31 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:07 -!- ekiM has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:08 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:30 Zaba: what do you think about making it so D20-27 has an increased chance of big vaults? 10:39:10 st_, technically, that's fairly easy 10:41:30 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:20 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:46:30 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 10:48:14 st_, how often do you think they should appear in late D? 10:50:15 i like the idea of there being a pretty good chance of getting either one of the encompass vaults or at least one large late-dungeon vault 10:50:57 MarvinPA, the easiest way to achieve such an effect would be to decrease the dummy chance for that depth range 10:51:50 would be a loot increase but I'd enjoy a vault on every floor at that depth 10:52:12 that's also possible (but has potential for lagging horribly if there are no available vaults..) 10:53:30 st_, you should run that idea through somebody who knows more about gameplay aspects of dungeon generation than me :P 10:53:33 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:28 I don't know who that would be :P 10:58:59 that's a good point... 10:59:09 because neither do I :P 10:59:37 but it's definitely not me. I don't have enough gameplay experience to make gameplay decisions :P 11:01:10 but anyway, normal levels have a 1/9 chance to have a normal vault on them 11:01:25 MarvinPA: even with WEIGHT:999999 (like the current forest testing vault) for D:19-26, it spawns in like half of games 11:01:58 oh huh, wow 11:02:04 kilobyte, because it's also a matter of chance (builder/dummy.des) 11:02:11 Zaba: yeah 11:02:24 and aside from dummies, chance is not considered for primary vaults 11:03:10 well just in terms of making late D more interesting and challenging, i think more big vaults would be good, anyway 11:03:13 and 999999 means that almost any attempt to place a normal vault ends up with the forest... which shows up how low the chance is 11:03:20 but st_'s proposal could be implemented by altering the dummy chance for the needed depth range 11:03:47 yeah, it's pretty straightforward 11:04:03 imo it shouldn't have a big vault every level but 1-2 per game could be fun. 11:04:05 the question is what chance we want them to have, and on what depth range :P 11:04:15 1-2 after vaults this is 11:05:19 could have a 1/4 chance to place a vault on D:20-27 or something 11:07:26 D:27 should be guaranteed something interesting imo 11:07:44 could have a 100% chance to place a vault on D:27 in addition to the above, too 11:07:55 yeah, awesome D:27 zot entry vaults by Mu! 11:08:29 was thinking of a draconian themed serial vault :P 11:09:02 but for that, PLACE would be more appropriate 11:11:30 greensnark, by the way, why is a tag used for entry vaults, instead of PLACE: D:1? 11:12:07 aw, crap 11:12:16 what do i set my remote to for the new git stuff? 11:12:26 d:27 serial vaults would be the best 11:12:40 wait, nevermind 11:14:02 MarvinPA, "serial vaults" is rather vague, though 11:14:21 convert zot portal generation to serial vaults 11:14:38 TGWi, what to do when random maps aren't used? 11:14:52 TGWi: malign zotway 11:15:58 Zaba: wait what? 11:17:34 if level generation fails 45 (+/-1) times, random maps aren't used in subsequent tries 11:18:13 but.. I guess you'd just have to place the serial vault that places the entrances as a primary PLACE vault. 11:23:51 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:25 Zaba: No real reason for the entry tag 11:42:34 heh 11:42:42 genpc_ogrish is still around 11:42:45 but ogres aren't it, any more 11:44:23 greensnark, should it go? 11:44:53 oh wait, i'm wrong... they get assigned it, just that it doesn't do anything 11:45:03 whereas before it had an entry in the switch 11:46:03 Zaba: Well, a side effect of using 'entry' means you can test any *other* vault easily by making it PLACE: D:1, but I don't think that's important any more 11:46:40 hm 11:47:22 can PLACE vaults fail, or just chance? 11:48:58 hmm... am i misremembering, or are dungeon orcs explicitly identified as 'cave orcs' somewhere 11:49:11 Eronarn: Beogh flavour text, IIRC 11:49:17 let me check 11:49:45 Beogh is the deity worshipped by the cave orcs native to parts of the dungeon. 11:49:52 ah, yes, i thought as much 11:50:01 case SP_HILL_ORC: 11:50:01 return (MONS_ORC); 11:50:23 are hill orcs and cave orcs actually different /species/? or just names for different tribes? 11:50:31 dunno if this is specified anywhere 11:50:53 TGWi, PLACE is meant for things that are guaranteed 11:51:05 so a PLACE serial vault should work 11:53:15 Eronarn: check the HO manual description 11:53:34 anyway, elves are also all treated as similar 11:53:59 and those are almost definitely different species 11:54:03 ho and co are most likely the same 11:54:12 #3410 looks nasty 11:54:32 (although they apparently worship different versions of beogh; the co beogh gives pain and demons) 11:54:44 what 11:54:50 where does it say that 11:54:56 ? 11:55:14 orcs are spellcasters, not just beoghites 11:55:21 the cave orcs just happen to use a lot of evil magic, it's not a beogh thing 11:55:36 in fact the orc sorc description specifies that its powers come from Hell 11:55:42 orc priests get demons too 11:55:46 @??orc high priest 11:55:47 orc high priest (09o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 40-70 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 7 | Flags: evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(58), 05hellfire | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1001 | Sp: pain (d13), demon, smiting (7-17), animate dead, minor healing. 11:55:48 greensnark, can perfectly use any other level for such testing, though 11:55:51 Hill Orcs are Orcs from the upper world who, jealous of the riches which 11:55:51 their cousins the Cave Orcs possess below the ground, descend in search 11:55:51 of plunder and adventure. 11:56:26 orc priests are priests 11:56:30 they have invocations not spells 11:56:53 that's a limitation of the crawl way of assigning spells, really 11:57:00 A servant of the ancient and cruel gods of the orcs, dressed in a long robe. It continually mumbles strange prayers. You should hope that they remain unheard. 11:57:00 An exalted servant of the orc god Beogh, mumbling fearsome prayers. 11:57:07 neither of those mention spellcasting at all 11:57:27 btw: how would people feel about lava orcs getting increased breathe flames + zerkitis mut chances 11:57:30 so really you're just making things up 11:57:30 like, say, 50% more likely 11:58:29 zerkitis is annoying and people notice bad muts way more than good ones so it'd probably be annoying 11:58:48 MarvinPA: lava orcs increase in temperature when they zerk 11:58:48 since it's a particularly unpleasant bad mut, too 11:58:56 well, I've scummed for berserkitis in Sprint before 11:59:00 so it has a special effect for them it doesn't for others 11:59:06 also starvation 11:59:21 but I doubt it works the same way in the main game 11:59:30 unbreathing might be another potential lava-orcish random mut at a very low rarity 11:59:38 since they are very stony 12:01:02 dunno, i'm not convinced per-species mut chances is particularly worthwhile 12:01:25 could work though 12:01:49 Is there a doc for to the bindings Crawl provides for lua? 12:01:57 hmm, there's a molten scales mut! 12:01:59 didn't know that 12:02:13 ekiM: No docs, although due has been threatening to add docs 12:02:35 MarvinPA: what about making the LO chance of 'icy blue scales' go totally into 'molten scales' 12:03:15 molten are +3 AC, -1 EV, rF+; icy are same but rC+ 12:03:26 doesn't seem to make sense for lava orcs to get scales made of ice 12:03:43 i suppose that makes sense, yeah 12:03:54 just not keen on going too overboard with special cases :P 12:04:00 yeah, understandable 12:04:24 greensnark: So I should read clua.cc? 12:04:59 the bindings are implemented in the l_*.cc files 12:06:14 Zaba: Thanks. 12:10:48 oh god. 12:10:55 I didn't know we had entry minivaults. 12:11:05 * Zaba sighs 12:12:30 why do we have entry minivaults anyway? couldn't they be converted into ordinary vaults without issue? is D:1 going to be more interesting if the entry vault is placed last rather than first? 12:12:57 they are always placed as primary vaults anyway 12:13:04 because it's hardcoded that way 12:13:26 but I have locally changed it so that entry vaults are picked by PLACE, and the fact some entry vaults apparently lack ORIENT has surfaced 12:13:46 and D:1 is very likely to be broken if entry vaults are placed last rather than first with the current code, by the way 12:16:37 ais523, "lack of ORIENT" is a very common vault mistake 12:16:50 what do vaults do if it isn't there? 12:16:54 they become minivaults 12:16:59 ah, I see 12:17:24 the problem is that there's no way to programmatically tell when it's a mistake and when it isn't, and that the results often go unnoticed for ages 12:18:01 ...what 12:18:24 trolls get -30% failure rate on evoking berserk 12:18:30 dwarves, orcs, and ogres get -10% 12:23:31 * Zaba ponders 12:23:51 looks like there's only 4 entry vaults without orient lines - lordsloth in small.des, two erik_ vaults in twisted and dpeg_cave_entry in twisted 12:24:17 -!- Clatch has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:35 "minivaults can be never placed as primary vaults" riiight 12:24:56 I need to write a lint tool for .des files or something 12:25:12 Build it into crawl 12:25:13 Jordan7hm, the two erik_ ones are subvaults 12:25:15 greensnark, no :/ 12:25:40 -!- Clatch has left ##crawl-dev 12:26:28 Can someone give me a hint how I can make a lua function make several calls to crawl.process_keys without interruption? 12:27:18 greensnark, it seems to me that crawl has more than enough stuff built-in and entangled as it is 12:27:50 and that the advantage of reusing the parser might turn out to be quite disadvantageous due to said entanglement :P 12:28:36 Jordan7hm, by the way, was it you with the question about using a water cell as an exit point of a vault on the forum? 12:29:23 must resist urge to let lava orcs summon hellhounds with canine familiar >_> 12:29:24 ekiM: Once the macro uses up one player turn you must call coroutine.yield() to let the game run time-elapsed actions 12:29:28 yes 12:29:41 i.e. once you take any action that uses game time you must put in a call to coroutine.yield() 12:29:52 Jordan7hm, well, you can't explicitly mark such a cell as an exit of a vault, no 12:30:08 Jordan7hm, however, it might be picked as a random exit from a normal vault, or a minivault with mini_float 12:31:03 ekiM: gearset.lua has an example of using yield, although it doesn't use sendkeys/process_keys 12:31:22 Zaba: Well, build your lint separately, but run it when compiling the .des anyway 12:31:34 Jordan7hm, but, it's mostly (if not always) sufficient to just make a floor cell next to water an exit 12:31:50 A standlone lint utility will be useless since nobody will use it 12:31:59 Jordan7hm, because floor would be built next to it in the process of connecting anyway 12:32:12 greensnark, I would use it 12:32:13 :P 12:32:36 So if you want to clean up everyone else's messes for them, yeah, that's a good idea :P 12:32:47 Otherwise make Crawl reject the .des when it does naughty things 12:33:15 ah 12:33:58 wait, wtf 12:33:59 !apt HO 12:34:00 HO: Air: -2, Armour: 1, Axes: 2!, Bows: -1, Charms: -1, Conj: 0, Xbows: -1, Dodge: -2, Earth: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100!, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 1, Maces: 1, Nec: 0, Poison: -1, Polearms: 1, Shields: 1, Short: 0, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -2, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 12:34:09 oh, right, -2 air for some reason 12:34:16 gotta remember to file that 12:34:18 fighting +2? 12:34:24 greensnark: Thanks very much. 12:34:30 that's pretty insane 12:34:56 greensnark, not sure what exactly that lint would check for, though 12:35:07 I had something on my mind when I first mentioned it, but that seemed to have slipped away 12:38:28 NEW icon for healing wand (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3624) by Curio 12:39:34 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:57 greensnark, the troubles with minivaults vs. normal vaults should be resolved in a different way, surely 12:42:57 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:04 Zaba: Different way from what? 12:44:40 from doing more strict checks for ORIENT in the level compiler 12:46:05 I thought you'd agreed to add customisable placement options for vaults? :) 12:46:39 i.e. replace orient with placements, which may be canned placements or use a custom function 12:46:50 yeah, that's a better way 12:47:12 Of course, that doesn't quite solve the primary/secondary vault nuisance 12:47:36 You need to know ahead of time if the vault can work as a primary vault 12:47:40 the problem is that it's a clusterfuck of primary vs. secondary, normal vs. mini and such 12:48:57 You probably need some extra tag to say "this is only a secondary vault, kthx" 12:49:06 Ok, off now, early day tomorrow 12:55:30 TGWi: 12:55:31 Welcome, Eros the Lava Orc Conjurer. The destiny of this world depends on the Orb of Zot. Go down and get it! 12:55:43 :D 12:58:50 works with beogh already, apts done 12:58:54 just need to code temperature now 13:17:37 :D 13:29:51 TGWi: 13:29:53 _The white imp shouts, "Face thy fugue, thou dankish fen-sucked dewberry!" Found a scroll labeled RAEHINUNOR. A black draconian skeleton comes into view. 13:29:56 _You're getting fired up! 13:30:40 on apts, how about giving them a little buff to spc and int over HO 13:30:41 :D 13:31:00 0-1 spellcasting apt sounds about right imo 13:31:06 "bad spc, good earth/fire" is also known as MD 13:31:51 I feel as though HO could have their int higher too, only ghoul and trolls have worse int 13:32:20 HO could use some tweaks 13:32:32 i plan to do a separate patch along with lava orcs 13:33:43 maybe md should only have +1 earth/fire 13:33:56 if ho is supposed to be the least bad heavy armour spellcaster it's not working 13:34:02 because md has great school apts 13:35:15 HO have much better caster apts across the board, also their orcish armour bonus is actually significant 13:35:37 md has two +2 apts, ho tops out at 0 13:35:42 and md has nuts armour apt 13:36:14 !apt md 13:36:14 MD: Air: -2, Armour: 3!, Axes: 2!, Bows: -2, Charms: -2, Conj: -1, Xbows: 1, Dodge: -1, Earth: 2, Evo: 1, Exp: 130, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 2!, Hexes: -2, Ice: -2, Inv: 0, Long: 0, Maces: 2!, Nec: -3*, Poison: -2, Polearms: -1, Shields: 2!, Short: 1, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: -2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -3, Summ: -2, Throw: -1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -1, Traps: 1, Unarmed: 0 13:36:15 !apt ho 13:36:16 HO: Air: -2, Armour: 1, Axes: 2!, Bows: -1, Charms: -1, Conj: 0, Xbows: -1, Dodge: -2, Earth: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100!, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 1, Maces: 1, Nec: 0, Poison: -1, Polearms: 1, Shields: 1, Short: 0, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -2, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 13:36:25 and "much better" is kind of an overstatement 13:36:25 MD has -2 charms and -3 nec, possible the 2 best magic school for armoured casting 13:36:35 -1 and 0 for HO 13:36:52 HO should have +1 hex 13:36:54 imo 13:40:08 and 0 stealt 13:40:09 h 13:41:49 HO should go up to +0 for pois, air, charms 13:42:13 improve tloc and tmut because why not 13:42:17 and -2 spc 13:42:28 keeping them with -spc is interesting, kind of 13:42:35 -3 spellcasting but good school apts could be fine, yeah 13:42:39 anti-ogre 13:42:53 HO should have negative stealth and good stabbing! 13:43:08 anyone know how much MP they get on levels ups compared to Hu? 13:45:37 -1 MP every 3 levels it seems, thanks badwiki :] 13:45:49 what about md 13:46:11 imo ho casters need an actual advantage compared to md fe/ee types 13:46:25 MD are same as HO 13:46:49 how about human mp for ho :| 13:46:58 -1/3 is actually really insignificant 13:47:23 ??starting stats 13:47:32 starting stats[1/3]: A character's starting stats are equal to 2 + species contribution + job contribution. See {starting stats[2]} for the species contributions and {starting stats[3]} for the job contributions. 13:47:33 when you hardly have any for spellcasting you do feel it 13:47:38 ??starting stats[2] 13:47:51 starting stats[2/3]: Ce 8,5,2 | DD 9,6,6 | DE 3,10,8 | DG 9,10,9 | Dr 9,6,2 | DS 6,7,6 | Fe 2,7,9 | Gh 9,1,2 | Ha 3,6,9 | HE 5,9,8 | HO 9,3,4 | Hu 6,6,6 | Ke 6,6,7 | Ko 5,4,8 | MD 9,4,5 | Mf 6,5,7 | Mi 10,3,3 | Mu 9,5,5 | Na 8,6,4 | Og 10,5,3 | SE 6,7,7 | Sp 2,7,9 | Tr 13,2,3 | Vp 5,8,7 13:48:03 any from spellcasting skill* 13:49:33 ho has lower stats than other races? 13:49:35 just 'cause? 13:49:39 that should maybe change 13:49:45 9, 6, 3 how bout 13:49:55 compared to md 9, 4, 5 13:50:07 why are HO less dodgey than dwarves anyways 13:50:10 that's really dumb 13:50:27 maybe even 8, 5, 5 13:50:37 lol mu is 9, 5, 5 13:51:00 they got +2 to all stats in 0.6 or 0.7 13:51:13 mi also has only 16 stats 13:54:03 gh has 12 which is hilarious 13:54:04 TGWi: mu don' get stats on level up or something, though 13:55:17 neither do vp 13:55:30 undead don't get good stats or something 13:55:42 still, *12* stats 13:56:11 he has 22 for some reason? idk 13:56:26 are all jobs equal? 13:58:05 some get more hp or whatever 13:58:15 i think the stats are all equal though 13:58:22 ??starting hp 13:58:22 hp[3/3]: Fighters and berserkers start with the most. Wizards start with the least. If you feel like adding the numbers, please add them. 13:58:29 thanks learndb 13:59:14 it's in ng-setup 13:59:52 source it? 14:00:17 nvm 14:00:50 case SP_GHOUL: sb = 9; ib = 1; db = 2; break; // 13 14:00:52 wat 14:01:04 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:32 someone fix this horrible bug 14:01:50 which horrible bug 14:01:55 case SP_GHOUL: sb = 9; ib = 1; db = 2; break; // 13 14:01:58 the comment is incorrect 14:03:21 cold resistance is a stat now right 14:03:42 why does he get 100 gold 14:03:48 healer 14:04:10 imo ar should get 100 and healer should get the normal 2 14:04:11 0 14:06:29 yes 14:06:35 when we add alchemist, it should have 150 14:06:52 @??wight 14:06:52 wight (03z) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 813(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(16), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 58. 14:07:07 @??electric golem 14:07:07 electric golem (118) | Speed: 16 | HD: 15 | Health: 114-151 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Damage: 1511(elec:15-21), 1511(elec:15-21), 15, 15 | Flags: 11non-living, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 5402 | Sp: b.lightning (3d20), blink. 14:07:49 @??draconian annihilator 14:07:49 black draconian annihilator (12d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 69-89 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2076 | Sp: b.lightning (3d21), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23), teleport self. 14:08:05 kind of sad that i need to do that to remember what the colors look like :( 14:10:16 Could someone have a quick look at some LUA?: http://pastebin.com/yDJABGAk if I don't include line 7 then I get a "cannot currently process new keys" error after the first iteration, but that's obviously not the correct way to fix it.. feel like I'm not understanding how LUA thread work. :F 14:13:08 ??starting hp 14:13:08 starting hp and mp[1/1]: AK 13,1 | AM 12,1 | As 12,0 | Be 15,0 | CK 13,1 | Cr 13,1 | DK 13,1 | Fi 15,0 | Gl 14,0 | He 13,2 | Hu 13,0 | Mo 13,0 | Pr 12,1 | St 12,1 | Tm 12,1 | Wr 12,1 | Wz 8,5 | Cj, En, FE, IE, AE, EE, Su, VM, Ne 10,3 14:13:15 Healers start with gold in NetHack. Doctors are rich! Not sure why Crawl would copy. 14:13:22 he has 12,2 14:13:26 pr has 12,1 14:13:28 erm, he has 13,2 14:13:35 for some reason they roc 14:13:36 k 14:19:28 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:24 aw 14:37:32 elemental colours don't work in bars properly :( 14:40:29 can't use elemental colours for player glyphs either, which is a shame 14:41:12 I wonder if elemental colours for highlights (for allies) works 14:41:15 elemental colours are bad at conveying information 14:41:23 do you know where the actual code limitation is for that, st_? 14:41:42 want to see if it's at all possible, or just not coded yet 14:41:47 no, not at all familiar with any of the code 14:48:29 03j-p-e-g * rc629943d8dc7 10/crawl-ref/source/libw32c.cc: Fix #3535: Buggy movement keys for Windows consoles. 14:49:34 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:10 Hi 14:50:17 evening, dpeg 14:55:55 ughh output.cc is so terrible 14:55:59 i want to just kill it :( 15:01:15 dpeg, TGWi: http://i51.tinypic.com/o6ybrl.png 15:01:17 not a photoshop 15:01:30 Eronarn: :D 15:02:11 TGWi: basically i just wanted the etc_fire for the bar when it's totally full, and etc_ice when it's only 1 (it always displays at least 1 even at 0 temperature) 15:02:32 atm it changes from darkblue all the way through lightred as you get hotter 15:02:42 idea: change the player glyph 15:02:49 so where are you going to put XL/Place 15:03:04 I mean just Place 15:03:08 looks like XL is down there 15:03:15 monqy: it's supposed to just shift everything down, except output.cc is SHIT 15:03:21 and i have to change stuff in like 10 places 15:03:24 :( 15:03:34 etc_fire @ at max bar, etc_ice at empty bar 15:03:58 what about show_player_species 15:04:13 etc_ice/fire o? 15:04:17 same thing but with an o 15:04:17 yes 15:04:26 Eronarn: I wouldn't worry about output now. 15:04:37 The bar is nifty but you can also present the information in other ways. 15:04:39 and I'm guessing for all other mon_glyph = player : whatever 15:04:53 people with those options are jerk 15:04:54 s 15:04:56 and can read a bar 15:05:20 actually, maybe make it rock-coloured instead of actually cold 15:05:31 because frozen lava isn't blue 15:05:36 etc_earth is brown/green right? 15:05:37 monqy: the problem is that it doesn't look trivial to make stuff use elemental colours 15:05:50 right :( 15:05:52 i'd have to look at what the output mechanism is that normally prints stuff that uses them 15:06:03 because what's used elsewhere can't support them 15:06:21 when I originally heard about temperature I thought it'd be down in the status list like hunger/thirst but I like the bar more 15:06:40 mostly because I don't like stuff down there 15:06:47 that's what my original plan was; then someone suggested putting a bar there 15:06:59 and i thought that'd look ugly, so i thought, hmm i bet it'd look cool if lava orcs had THREE bars 15:07:43 another thing we could do is make the color depend not on current temperature, but how far into the bar you are - so the left side of the bar is blue, the right side is red as it fills in 15:07:48 that might look weird though 15:08:41 probably better for your peripheral vision if the whole bar is coloured 15:08:47 hmm, yeah 15:08:58 i think i'll also drop the shades of blue that are the same color as the MP bar 15:09:06 or even any blue at all, maybe 15:09:06 you could make the effects visible on the viewport though 15:09:16 somewhat 15:09:20 when you get hot enough, you'll have a heat shimmer corona-y thing 15:09:29 brown -> yellow -> yellow with yeah that 15:09:41 and you get an AC boost at low temp, which'll show up like stoneskin does 15:09:52 did you read my message 15:10:02 also i will probably make an alternate A screen, like vampires get, except this one will be a giant temperature bar 15:10:09 :D 15:10:13 letting people instantly cast stoneskin to cool down is bad 15:10:21 make it work like normal, except not while you're hot 15:11:18 It might be easier to just display a status light "Hot", "Cold", etc. in varying colours, and use the bar for the A screen. 15:12:24 http://pastebin.com/EATXjk13 i was thinking of the A screen looking like this 15:12:28 except colored, obviously 15:12:57 just make it display on the normal A screen 15:13:13 well, you'd want it like vampires, where it explains what happens 15:13:16 that'll take up space 15:13:20 "you change depending on your temperature," then the bar, then list heat-related racial properties 15:13:22 then mutations 15:13:39 you'll have effect descriptions on the mutation screen, but there's not enough room to fit mutations and then also when the effects happen 15:14:24 how many lines is it, like six max? 15:14:26 DS muts take more 15:14:31 probably i'll do each lava orc ability on the list as a mutation, and grey out the ones which aren't currently on, or something 15:14:33 Can someone see why this LUA function was not stopping when I became hungry? I tried to model that bit on gearset.lua.: http://pastebin.com/xS8WSNBE 15:14:38 TGWi: i mean what i just pasted; that definitely won't fit 15:14:45 some kind of table-y thing to explain when stuff kicks in 15:15:03 think of it more like a help screen than anything else 15:15:03 vampires have it on a seperate screen, surely that'd work 15:15:08 MarvinPA: that's what i said!! 15:15:10 >:( 15:15:11 oh okay 15:15:19 Also, LUA is cool. 15:15:22 oh it was tgw saying to display it on the same screen 15:15:39 that's bad because it'd take up too much space and also they'd be the only race that does something weird on that screen 15:15:43 tgw ruining crawl 15:15:56 proposing to ruin crawl 15:16:22 i estimate lava orcs will be playable with like... 3 more hours of coding 15:16:33 :O 15:16:59 "right before 0.8 release" is probably not the best time 15:17:00 sadly 15:17:17 TGWi: no see it gives us time to prepare 15:17:21 i am going to make a trailer and post it on SA 15:17:25 haha 15:17:28 I hope they do get onto cdo for testing 15:17:28 FROM THE MAN WHO BROUGHT YOU OCTOPODES... 15:17:34 hahah 15:17:38 yeah that would be nice 15:17:49 Eronarn: get a guy to do voiceover 15:17:50 do they have a branch 15:18:08 i tried to update the nome branch yesterday to give those a try but it needed loads of manual merging 15:18:10 monqy: no i literally just started them today 15:18:28 speaking of octopodes, I'm still sad about nomes 15:18:41 so i didn't bother, what kind of state are they actually in? 15:18:55 Can someone give me a hint how to check if a player has access to an ability in LUA? 15:18:58 oh I see marvinpa is speaking of nomes too. didn't see that 15:19:01 yus 15:19:06 nomes didn't seem very interesting to me, sounded annoying to play, always trying to be in walls and stuff 15:19:16 basically they need: 1) a better tension calculation 2) effects kicking in (most of these are pretty easy) 3) lava swimming 15:19:44 lava swimming shouldn't be too bad i think, if it's made more limited than merfolk 15:20:05 slightly sad about octopodes. they sound interesting and I'm not fundamentally against them 15:20:09 but it's also a pretty minor feature of lava orcs, in that lava won't even show up 15:20:10 yet 15:20:13 until quite late game 15:20:38 monqy: .9: octopodes, lava orcs, alchemy 15:20:39 lava swimming should just be "you can walk through lava" 15:20:42 "and not use scrolls" 15:20:51 lava orctopodes 15:20:53 .9 is supposed to be a small release before august I thought 15:21:04 TGWi: yes which will make it all the more hilarious if we fit in two new races 15:21:08 :D 15:21:12 octopodes can be the tourney challenge race 15:21:29 until mikee finds 8 rings of slaying 15:21:50 he actually would :( 15:22:10 hmm there was something i was going to do after my kenku died, but i forget what it was now 15:22:27 remove stepdowns 15:22:28 I'm sure 15:22:37 fix okawaru flavour 15:22:38 also TGWi: yeah i think i'd have them be normal speed in lava - they're at home there, but lava is also gooey and stuff 15:22:59 can't be just walking though because of stuff like submerging, dropping... there'll have to be code in place to check that stuff 15:22:59 also you would have to make it increase heat 15:23:01 but whatever 15:23:15 well duh!! 15:23:45 dropping and submerging are already handled, no? 15:24:04 it might need to work different that merfolk so you can't e.g. drop scrolls in lava 15:24:23 items in lava are destroyed 15:24:23 that's fine by me 15:24:42 eh, maybe, but then people will wonder why lava orc gear isn't destroyed 15:24:50 lava magic 15:24:53 lava orcs are unrealistic 15:25:04 plus i can conveniently 'forget' to implement a check on dropping the orb of zot into lava, for lava orcs 15:25:18 and watch the first lava orc win drop his orb into lava while fucking around 15:25:34 change the lava orc's win condition 15:25:49 you have to send the orb of zot back to the lava homeland 15:26:00 by dropping it in any lava 15:26:32 TGWi: i seriously considered this for lava orcs: they start on d27 in a pool of lava, and have to climb up the dungeon and get the orb, and bring it back down and then swim home 15:26:42 lol 15:26:51 just reverse all the numbers and stair directions in the game 15:27:00 D:72 15:27:25 IIRC there are Angband forks which work like that, except they do start on a really hard level 15:27:38 with the ability to walk through walls, making them mostly invincible, in an attempt to survive 15:29:39 tome has been adding alternate starting locations for some races 15:29:41 it's interesting 15:32:26 DLua stuff can't be accessed by macroable lua functions, is that so? 15:33:06 Crawl has one background start in the Abyss. 15:33:22 it's not really the abyss, though, as it doesn't have a rune 15:33:31 It kind of is the abyss. 15:33:47 it's pretty much the abyss 15:34:12 but what's the point in spending thousands of turns running from demons if you don't even get a reward for it? 15:35:18 you get better rewards than runes 15:35:19 That's absolutely not what an AK will do. 15:35:30 also yeah, an AK will leave the abyss straight away 15:35:33 You get XP and loot. And fun. Anyway, the point was: Crawl already allows alternate start points. 15:36:24 I must have played more AKs than anything else, three of them found the rune (after insta-abandoning Lugonu) and even managed to bring it out of the abyss with them 15:36:33 I gave up when hellephants were added, I think 15:36:36 they just made it too difficult 15:37:44 hellephants :D 15:38:00 you died to one hellephant and they hardly ever turn up 15:38:12 i've never actually seen one outside of sprint afaik 15:38:25 yep, but you can't run from them, as they oneshot you with fireballs 15:38:28 as a level 1 SpAK 15:38:48 dpeg: LOAK starts in lava abyss 15:38:51 well the abyss isn't exactly safe for a L1 even if they are a spriggan 15:39:02 TGWi: abyss increases tension by 50% 15:39:34 -!- aze5 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:50 anyways i'm gonna probably not have time to do lava orc stuff until next weekend, but y'all should go post on the wiki page 15:39:59 so i have a bunch of stuff to implement when i get back 15:40:39 surprised how okay with this devs seem 15:40:48 I mean, come on, lava orcs 15:41:06 !tell galehar Just playing around with 7hm's new Spider maps and it seems there are bugs with clinging: _The wolf spider turns to fight! You feel sick. The wolf spider falls into the water! _The wolf spider drowns. 15:41:06 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 15:41:30 thats probably not good 15:42:05 imo wolf spiders should be differentiated from trapdoors 15:43:42 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:02 all s feel the same even if they have something about them (conf attacks, blinking, hiding) 15:44:14 @??wolf spider 15:44:14 wolf spider (16s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-59 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 457. 15:44:28 how about increasing the damage and making their poison wimpier 15:49:12 trapdoors hide in the floor, that's a pretty big difference 15:49:22 it's the only difference 15:49:23 literally 15:49:32 @??trapdoor spider 15:49:32 trapdoor spider (11s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-59 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 456. 15:51:47 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:22 I think orb run panlords are bugged 16:07:28 " they aren't casting spells 16:07:53 pretty sure they do 16:08:02 unless it's in the past day or so 16:08:15 klelaut, some other panlord nyaakitty kited up a ton of levels, tiolakov from wizmode testing 16:08:20 all spellcasting monsters in Crawl are bugged in that sometimes they just stand there and let you kill them 16:08:22 I'll kill tiolakov and see if more spawn 16:08:28 due to chance 16:08:36 although, kiting a panlord earlygame seems wrong 16:08:39 ais523: I'm kiting it around everywhere and it's not doing anything but hit me 16:09:14 monqy: maybe it has icestorm or something else that will hurt it too much or maybe it's a deliberate design choice! 16:09:21 ok I guess mnesaj is doing something at least 16:09:32 good old mnesaj 16:09:41 but it seems so odd that so many of them aren't casting 16:09:46 is it intentional 16:10:00 it also seems weird that they're all either elementally coloured or lightreed 16:10:24 it would make sense if there were fast high melee high ac/ev panlords 16:10:42 is there a special case for that 16:10:53 idk I'm just throwing out ideas 16:13:21 ooh puleobl gris has tukima's ball 16:13:42 didn't know panlords could get that 16:14:19 doesn't seem particularly useful for pan lords 16:15:02 depends on how many stray weapons there are lying around 16:15:09 puleobl gris is most certainly casting. polymorph other, chain lightning, dance party, and iood 16:15:14 hmm, you'd probably better remove that, or optimal play would involve stashing all the weapons in the dungeon before the orb run 16:15:25 in case a panlord with tukima's dance party turned up 16:15:41 hehehe 16:16:32 rufobb is casting too. I should look at the code 16:17:17 perhaps it just generated with no spells 16:18:03 there's a 1/10 chance of pan lords getting no spells i think 16:18:08 or something like that 16:18:08 oh. why? 16:18:28 do they at least get good speed/melee then? 16:18:29 no idea, haven't actually looked at it properly 16:21:31 weird, from the ghost.cc stuff at least it just looks like there's a 1/10 chance of them not having spells 16:21:36 with nothing in return 16:22:14 give them a speed boost or melee brand or punchier melee or something? 16:23:08 I like how it used to be 1/3 chance 16:23:26 heh, yeah 16:26:26 Spells are for mortals. 16:27:24 it just seems like special-casing to gimp 1/10 of panlords without giving them anything interesting in return is kind of bad 16:27:32 at least summon butterflies is hilarious 16:31:24 ok it looks like monster::pandemon_init() special-cases ascension panlords' colour to LIGHTRED (why??) but forgets to set cycle_colours to false 16:31:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:35:01 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:08 evening 16:35:08 galehar: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:35:14 !messages 16:35:15 (1/5) Keskitalo said (2d 3h 50m 6s ago): How about making giant geckoes, giant cockrouaches and giant mites early clingers, and making a clinger sewer vault out of them? (with a "sewer spider" boss perhaps) 16:35:17 weird 16:35:37 !messages 16:35:37 (1/4) dpeg said (2d 17m 56s ago): I looked into 7hm's spider maps, but the new version does not seem to be new. I made a comment on Mantis. 16:35:46 !messages 16:35:46 (1/3) TGWi said (6h 15m 24s ago): the game should tell you recommended strength if you put on an armour where the requirement isn't met 16:35:58 !messages 16:35:58 (1/2) TGWi said (6h 15m 1s ago): the mechanism is fine but the player has no idea it exists afaik 16:36:03 !messages 16:36:03 (1/1) dpeg said (54m 57s ago): Just playing around with 7hm's new Spider maps and it seems there are bugs with clinging: _The wolf spider turns to fight! You feel sick. The wolf spider falls into the water! _The wolf spider drowns. 16:36:41 any opinions on making pure melee panlords more interesting / ascension panlords not always lightred (or disabling cycle_colours but I'd rather remove the lightredding)? 16:37:18 hi 16:37:41 dpeg: can be more specific on the conditions leading to clinging monsters drowning on their own? 16:37:58 dpeg: switching place with another maybe? 16:38:33 monqy: sounds good to me, i'm having a look at the ghost code now but if you fancy doing it that's fine too :P 16:38:59 or just suggest things to give to the pure melee panlords, i was thinking guarantee them a weapon brand and boost their hp or something 16:39:08 melee brand* 16:40:41 guaranteeing a brand would be nice yes 16:41:04 also removing the weird special casing where they can get orc slaying if you're an orc 16:41:08 because that's weird 16:41:19 could also be biased towards being faster 16:41:41 i.e. not faster than the current cap, but more likely to be be near it 16:42:12 * due waits for Eronarn's screaming to begin. 16:42:20 hm, sounds reasonable too 16:42:40 fast != "melee threat", though. 16:43:02 I would also tweak the shoving code 16:43:09 melee threat != slow though 16:43:11 so that Pan Lords can shove *everyone* out of the way 16:50:53 that sounds nice too 17:00:37 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:49 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:29 due: sounds goo 17:03:30 d 17:03:54 galehar: no, unfortunately not. There was no other monster around, I was far away. The spider was not confused. 17:05:40 Any holy issues since my changes on Monday? 17:08:07 cannot say :/ 17:09:06 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 17:09:09 hooray! 17:09:39 i don't have anything against fast monsters; i'm against monsters being fast unless there's a compelling reason for them to be 17:10:06 e.g. wolves cover the ground pretty quickly but they shouldn't be whirling engines of destruction 17:10:37 right now they get ~5 attacks in the time a normal person takes to make 1 17:12:15 @??raven 17:12:15 raven (02b) | Speed: 20 | HD: 6 | Health: 25-41 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Damage: 8, 8 | Flags: sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(16) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 262. 17:12:19 see also these 17:18:12 well, I wouldn't be averse to someone writing a list of fast monsters (and indeed, slow ones), and pointing out which don't have a good rational. 17:18:15 *rationale. 17:20:33 slow ones are another one yeah, there are almost certainly monsters which should move slow but attack normal speed (like nagas already do) 17:21:02 (beetles) 17:21:48 another thing that might be nice would be, with the combining-AF stuff 17:21:49 AF_AUX 17:22:00 for stuff that should, say, bite every turn but not necessarily claw every turn 17:22:26 that lets you tune up the damage on the auxes a lot, if they're non-guaranteed 17:22:56 and you don't end up with everything with a bite and two claws getting three attacks every round 17:23:26 slow moving monsters are only very rarely interesting 17:24:16 dpeg: yes... but we have them, and the ones we have would be more interesting if they only moved slow, since you couldn't kite them by knowing the timing 17:24:59 of course 17:25:06 slow movement speed good, slow action speed bad 17:25:14 except for the occasional early monster 17:25:25 fast action speed bad also 17:25:28 dpeg: one killed me recently by boring me into making mistakes 17:25:37 as I'd spent something like 1000 turns trying to kill it 17:25:38 yeah, i'm not sure if i can think of amny monsters that should really have slow act speed 17:25:41 then going back upstairs and healing MP 17:25:56 I'm not entirely sure that's good design (and not good play either, I should have ignored it) 17:26:21 -!- TGWi is now known as the 17:26:23 slow act is actually interesting - see ogres 17:26:31 but that's from weapon, not from stats 17:26:51 -!- the is now known as Guest4166 17:26:55 -!- Guest4166 is now known as TGWi 17:28:01 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:18 TGWi: fast action speed is good. Against the player generally works, in favour of the player is generally problematic. 17:33:02 because of the way time works it just means they get to act twice sometimes 17:33:04 without input 17:33:19 20 is okay if you want 20, 15 is annoying 17:34:08 dpeg: less stuff with fast action speed means more room to make their possible actions powerful... because they take less of them overall, and less often get 2 of them in a row with no player input 17:34:25 so you can up damage, give better spells, etc. to compensate 17:34:26 03j-p-e-g * r0972c6cb91aa 10/crawl-ref/source/format.cc: Fix #1184: Limit tagged block display's lines to screen size. 17:46:50 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:50:24 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:22 player clinging bug: I was clinging over a staircase and I stayed clinging after descending 17:57:07 please tell galehar 17:59:06 !tell galehar player clinging bug: I was clinging over a staircase and I stayed clinging after descending 17:59:06 monqy: OK, I'll let galehar know. 18:00:40 thanks 18:00:40 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:00:58 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:13:24 -!- due has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:13:54 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 18:13:54 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 18:13:54 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 18:13:54 Can (a)bilites be called straight from Lua? you.abilities() just seems to have the names, not references. 18:14:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:04 is it a bug that it's impossible to enchant melded armour 18:18:31 or wait never mind 18:18:38 that may have been fixed or I was imagining it 18:18:54 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:00 no it's still there 18:20:22 Compile faillure in format.cc (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3625) by vonbrand 18:20:22 how do you target melded armour? 18:20:26 unidentified scroll 18:21:03 that sounds unpleasant 18:21:31 * due summons the C++ gurus 18:24:59 lovely template debugging 18:29:34 Lovely is one word for it :/ 18:30:01 !tell dpeg Look at Dorokhloe at some time (loot,holy set). 18:30:01 dpeg: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 18:30:29 Oooh. 18:30:32 Holy set sounds like fun. 18:30:40 What's wrong with the loot though? 18:30:51 my uneducated, random suggestion is, what type of things are in that vector 18:31:03 since min needs the same type on first and second attribute right? 18:33:44 in the lines vector? that shouldn't affect the type of its size 18:33:48 due: not enough of it 18:33:48 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:34:03 I've been playing around in wizard mode with allies using rods, it's pretty amusing. It's only possible to do with beogh though, and the way of pulling it off seems like an exploit 18:34:10 I just learned that Dorokhloe's is the hardest of all wizlabs (which makes me proud, of course :) 18:34:12 you basically have to get a hostile orc to pick up a rod, and then convert it to your side 18:34:14 looks to oh I guess it is affecting its size type 18:34:17 silly c++ 18:34:26 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:02 is there any way to explicitly convert a vector's size type to an integer, since that compiler seems not to want to do it implicitly? 18:35:13 cast 18:35:49 it compiled fine for me, for what it's worth. different architecture though 18:36:05 guessing it has something to do with that? 18:36:18 dpeg: But it gives 20k epx. 18:36:26 dpeg: None of the other maps have that much exp. 18:36:42 is there any reason why exp amount has to match up with difficulty? 18:36:57 some of PMD's tactical interest comes from the fact that there are difficult monsters worth hardly any exp, and vice versa 18:37:07 the xp isn't really that much of a motivation to do it 18:37:30 usually when I find that wizlab I bail right away, the only thing I think of is risk vs loot. It's a really cool wizlab though 18:42:23 evilmike: thank you =) 18:42:45 ais523: take moths and eyes as an examples of very little xp for monsters that can cause horrible situations of iminent death 18:43:26 yep, those are good examples 18:43:27 due: yes, but I think players should get the impression they might have missed out on something epic ... two scrolls of blinking won't do :) 18:43:29 @??giant eyeball 18:43:29 giant eyeball (16G) | Speed: 3 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 0/1 | Flags: lev | Res: 06magic(12), asphyx | XP: 3. 18:43:34 um lol 18:43:39 (PMD's examples are pretty similar in mechanics, actually) 18:43:54 could stand to be more 18:44:09 obviously it won't be balanced for late game as well as early game but 3 is just low 18:44:42 TGWi: the xp value of that monster does not matter 18:45:18 dissolution could use an XP bump, incidentally 18:45:28 Mu_: go ahead :) 18:45:56 i wouldn't know how :P 18:46:25 03kilobyte * r5c09e54c88f1 10/crawl-ref/source/format.cc: Fix compilation on 64 bit. 18:46:47 Did the new Spider maps make it into trunk, btw? 18:48:01 @??moth of wrath 18:48:01 moth of wrath (04y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 9 | Health: 34-65 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 2505(rage) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 502. 18:48:03 the CIA didn't show them 19:06:04 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:30 Rawr 19:07:30 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:07:32 !messages 19:07:33 (1/1) Keskitalo said (1d 13h 57m 25s ago): Major props for taking on fight.cc ! 19:09:14 There hasn't been some revolutionary development in crawl (that I've missed) that somehow supports parrying, is there? 19:09:37 imo melee manoeuvres in 0.9 19:10:03 TGWi, wha? you mean you'd like to see it in 0.9? 19:10:07 octopodes can do 8 melee maneuvers per round 19:10:12 yeah 19:10:14 not saying it will be 19:10:17 but it should 19:10:19 TGWi, right, but wish list. 19:10:44 What other combat mechanics should we aim to include in a new combat system? 19:10:52 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:07 lava orcs 19:16:07 lol, not much in the way of major mechanics needed to support them. 19:17:53 yes please lava orcs 19:18:13 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:37 I have the feeling the dev part of ##crawl-dev is going to hell these days. 19:20:46 ZChris13 / Cryp71c: lava orcs are coded!! (partially) 19:21:04 Haha 19:22:00 Folks, can we leave the lava orc fanboyism to ##crawl please? Thanks. 19:22:13 I'm sorry, but lava orcs are hilarious. 19:23:08 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:24 yes, but you can leave the hilarity at ##crawl 19:23:55 That was my intention. Just a single comment. Or two. 19:26:35 TGWi: did you set up a weapon effect page btw? 19:26:37 I don't know if you'll understand it but it's absolutely unclear if a new species will make it into 0.9 ... and if so which. If the thing that lava orcs are most famous for is loud cheering from the crowd, I don't think that'll help their cause. 19:26:41 no 19:34:16 a new species won't make it into .9 if it doesn't have adequate time to test, and the best way for that to happen is by getting a start early 19:38:20 being popular will also get more people to test it 19:38:28 meaning bugs will surface faster 19:39:00 New species aren't going into 0.9, unless it just barely misses 0.8. 9 Won't be a big release. 19:39:28 dpeg, what other combat mechanics would you like to see the new fight system keeping in mind to facilitate? 19:39:56 Cryp71c: are you alternating feature and bugfix releases? 19:40:54 Cryp71c: lava orcs went from 0loc to playable in ~3 hours, i'd be surprised if they're not ready for testing before .8 is out 19:41:40 is it based on the vampire code? 19:42:12 hmm, any plans to add a new race differentiated only by apts and some stock racial mutations any time soon? 19:42:17 or is Crawl done with those forever? 19:43:07 Cryp71c: it would be nice if we can make use of positioning (e.g. attacking ..O@o..) and movement (went three turns in the same direction as now attacking the enemy, "charging") 19:43:23 ais523: there are no suggestions I am aware of 19:43:40 dpeg: that would also help with that boulder beetle proposal 19:43:46 proposal/implementable 19:44:32 ais523: there really isn't enough room for that imo 19:44:45 not unless we add some new muts 19:45:07 and no, it's not related to vampire code at all. it has more in common with the demonic guardian code 19:47:19 I mean, things like the funky A screen 19:47:47 i'm gonna do that based on vampire code, yeah. right now there's no screen for them 19:47:52 just a third bar, below MP 19:51:05 that bar is really cool btw 19:51:11 no pun intended 19:51:43 hmm, wouldn't that mess up the interface somewhat? 19:51:48 an enchantment would make more sense 19:52:43 that screenshot makes it look like the interface isn't that messed up. one less line for monster list, basically 19:53:45 ais523: gnolls! 19:53:47 sorry, nolls! 19:55:14 a lot of existing races have quite poorly differentiated apts 19:55:35 oh that was from like 15 minutes ago, i was scrolled up 19:55:35 but yeah 19:56:02 nolls have antennae 3 (reflavoured as a keen nose) 19:56:13 and carnivore 19:57:03 hmm there should be more herbivores 19:57:12 the interface is messed up but only because output.cc is hell 19:57:15 i already fixed it 19:57:33 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:36 the bar itself now works fine except for not drawing until your temperature first changes 19:57:53 just need to make sure the code gets called before the player's first turn 19:57:54 HE could get a level of that instead of the negative saprovore thing maybe although that would be cool too 19:58:05 MarvinPA: both!! 19:58:10 The bar only makes sense if the scale for temperature are very fine. 19:58:43 although herbivore making you more likely to be sick from contaminated meat was proposed in vintermann's food overhaul i think 19:59:03 there are like seven or nine different levels of temperature that have effects I think 19:59:20 it's useful to show more than that because the player can see the trend in their temperature more easily 20:04:34 03galehar * rc57a0fd112df 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Typo. 20:04:45 03galehar * rf5904b9546ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h tag-version.h tags.cc): Add a props hash table to monster_info. 20:04:46 03galehar * r556a35e9cd6c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h fight.cc mon-info.cc mon-info.h): Remove the helpless fake enchantment and use props instead. 20:05:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:06:48 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:13 03dolorous * rcdf0e577f21d 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Typo fix. 20:21:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:26:16 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:18 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:50:58 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 20:58:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:40 !tell ekiM Nice going on the Lua macro. I'd be happy to help debug issues. 21:05:41 greensnark: OK, I'll let ekiM know. 21:06:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:55 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:19 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:13 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [] 21:29:30 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:53 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:49 MarvinPA, any perspective on the fight.cc rewrite? Are you familiar w/ that code at all? 22:14:33 not at all, sorry :P 22:16:36 well, i took a brief look at some of the code for brands and attack flavours, but nothing else really 22:16:58 Why was the speed-on-weapons nerf so severe it's a bad brand for most weapons? This is counter-intuitive and unnecessary. The speed brand is already limited to very bad weapon types (staves, short blades) and that is how it was balanced, and simply removing the chance of speed on other weapons including randarts seems like a much improved option. 22:18:33 I don't even understand what that means. 22:19:47 please also make it provide double-attacks instead of requiring more keypresses / thanks in advance 22:20:26 that is, an attack with speed brand would have the same delay as one without, but it would fit two hits in 22:20:44 (and by the speed nerf, two weakened hits) 22:22:35 I seriously think kilobyte didn't realize that speed halving of delay rounds up always 22:23:16 and maybe he would be fine with changing that, which would help 22:25:39 div_rand_round 22:25:43 all day every day 22:25:53 this should be applied to skill's effect on weapon delay too 22:26:13 also casmith made perfect sense 22:26:33 but I speak powergamese 22:28:56 due: the speed-on-weapons have damage reduced by 20% before AC? this makes them a lot worse versus all enemies, and worse than the base type versus enemies with passable AC. 22:33:21 casmith789: I haven't looked at the codebase with regards to melee damage recently, sorry. 22:34:02 Ah. Well my statements are put to any other developers involved in this issue, specifically kilobyte. 22:34:12 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:38 so it's a full rewrite now, Cryp71c? :P 22:43:58 isn't this what made brent ross disappear from the face of the earth 22:44:25 yes 22:44:43 best of luck, Cryp71c 22:46:30 i'll stick to lava orcs, thanks 22:47:11 Brent Ross also did a full rewrite of most of the rest of Crawl at the same time he was rewriting fight.cc 22:49:26 didn't soup already rewrite a lot of the rest though 22:49:33 Yes, but gradually 22:49:42 Brent did it all at the same time 22:49:48 One man army 22:49:48 maybe that's what happened to doy and rob 22:49:54 it got to them 22:50:00 crawl code ruins lives 22:50:11 I'm pretty sure rob just got sick of the people rather than the code :P 22:50:19 reading fight.cc turns you into a wendigo 22:50:21 you heard it here first 22:51:38 Eronarn, it will have been a full rewrite when its done, and if were going to do it at all, better to take the full measure of the change into perspective from the get-go. 22:51:50 TGWi, what made brent disappear? 22:52:13 fight.cc 22:52:23 his rewrite never made it into trunk, clearly? 22:52:47 brent ross, the 4.1 guy 22:53:00 I'm not familiar w/ the old, old devs :| 22:53:17 So his rewrite is fight.cc, then? 22:53:19 he got too close 22:53:22 and was never heard from again 22:53:22 Cryp71c: a full rewrite is way, way, way huge ridiculous scale 22:54:19 Eronarn, its going to start small, but a plan for what the new system should support is absolutely necessary or else we're going to end up having spent 2x as much time as necessary or end up with a system that doesn't actually do everything we want it to do. 22:54:53 spending 2x as much time as necessary is not always a bad thing 22:55:01 manpower is a resource separate from time 22:55:07 And technically, I'm not sure fight.cc is really all that big of a headache as it seems to be. I've been reading through all the methods in it so I can get an idea of the scale, and its not as bad as I had imagined it to be. 22:55:26 Eronarn, spending any amount of time more than what would've been necessary with good planning is never a good thing. 22:55:33 (I don't know anything about the code except what the legends say) 22:55:39 TGWi: i've read through it all 22:55:47 through... crawl? 22:55:51 no, fight.cc 22:56:11 i've probably read through 30k-50k lines of crawl code? at a guess 22:56:25 Anyways, its late. gotta head to bed, I'll be back on in about 10 hours, when I'm at work. 22:56:33 night 22:56:47 (ps, for those who didn't see it earlier, screenshot: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:lava_orc ) 22:56:48 msg me if you need, I've written up a detailed list of what should be supported by the new system on the wiki 22:56:49 Check it out. 22:56:57 !tell Cryp71c https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:lava_orc 22:56:57 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 22:57:04 I'll check it out tomorrow. 22:57:04 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:57:05 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:42 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:41:19 any idea why, when I use the monster_dies trigger, each time I kill a monster it runs through the function that the trigger references as many times as there are markers, rather than a single time for each kill 23:42:59 this is the code: http://paste.org/pastebin/view/30524 23:45:40 Jordan7hm: Because each marker is notified of the event 23:46:02 Lua listeners are tied to markers, and it's assumed you want to do something at each marker's position 23:46:35 If you don't, just set a flag on the options hash to say you've handled the death event and ignore further events 23:46:52 ah, thank you 23:48:13 Also that snippet you pasted is incomplete, but it looks like you're reusing the same marker for multiple positions 23:48:31 Which is not wrong, as such, but can produce confusing behaviour 23:49:05 It's a better idea to create a local function monster_death_marker() return marker end 23:49:14 And then pass that function to your lua_marker call 23:49:20 So that a new marker is created for each position 23:59:56 -!- XB7 has joined ##crawl-dev