00:04:08 -!- evilmike has quit [] 00:16:36 -!- dpeg has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:17:56 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:18:51 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:52 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 00:21:04 ice_cave_cavern vaults have fire items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3560) by OG17 00:29:37 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:44 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:39:46 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:17 Wielded armor/jewelry menu/display bugs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3561) by OG17 01:07:50 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:17:01 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:18 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:10 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:38 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:39:35 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:59 Ooh nice, in Tavern, minmay puts out an idea for AMs to replace Swiftness with Slow. 02:44:21 that's not a good idea really 02:44:40 better to stick brand spells in charms where they belong 02:45:32 though personally i think a hex AM would be way more fun 02:45:33 I'm fine with either, but in that case, it'd be cool if AM got all Hexes. 02:45:37 Yeah, exactly. 02:45:58 Instead of branding your bow, hex your enemy with Magnetic Attraction. 02:46:00 a spell that lets you get ranged stabs 02:46:02 AM with brands is kind of funky since they can just use them on weapons 02:46:03 cause fear 02:46:08 monqy: Indeed! 02:46:33 rmsl, if it's a hex now, who knows 02:46:45 I think rmsl is still a charm 02:46:51 lol. 02:47:00 Eronarn is just being oh so funny. 02:47:27 I wouldn't miss the fire and ice brandings, but I was pretty fond of the poison brand with the HeAM. 02:48:26 is there any complete documentation of the old AM 02:48:51 L1 hex/nec, fires an arrow when you cast it (like portal projectile) that deals bleeding 02:48:52 The initial patch? It did get merged at first. 02:48:53 would be pretty cool 02:48:58 maybe have to be higher than L1 though 02:49:09 or more clearly, are there any interesting ideas that could be taken from it 02:49:13 monqy: no 02:49:19 if not directly, in principle 02:49:20 I don't like the bleeding much - it's another damage-over-time that works against pretty much the same set of targets as poiosn. 02:49:27 it was just 'make a brand spell for every brand and make two books for them' 02:49:46 But, that aside, that would be a great idea for keeping the damage-over-time "brand" for AM! 02:50:25 Yeah, the current AM is a very good distillation of the ideas that the patch had. 02:50:38 Keskitalo: nothing wrong with something working the same way as poison; there's a good amount of bleeding-vulnerable, poison-immune stuff 02:50:39 There were two books, other was translocations-based which was cut out. 02:51:16 plus, the school difference - it wouldn't be poison magic, of course 02:51:17 Eronarn: Ah yeah, Snake Pit has those in particular. I was mostly thinking of the demon demon demon demon undead demon population in the endgame. 02:51:26 i think demons can bleed 02:52:09 I can't recall demons ever bleeding 02:52:46 * Keskitalo contemplates the wisdom of cloning the crawl repo to the work machine 02:52:52 Lunch! 02:53:07 i need to go to bed :( and hope i am able to walk tomorrow 02:55:08 hmm, hellephants have blood 02:56:03 as do demonspawn 02:56:22 antaeus doesn't though, which is sort of weird 02:57:02 do dwarves have booze? 03:05:57 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:20 Hi! 03:06:21 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:06:28 !messages 03:06:28 (1/1) dpeg said (6d 12h 32m 44s ago): There was another idea for Ash (instead of the EV/etc effects). Do you recall what it was? 03:07:37 (it was skill boosts) 03:07:43 dpeg: identification of monster equipment (with a chance of boundedness / max boundedness) 03:07:57 marvinPA: you broke tile compile 03:07:58 tilepick.cc:59: error: size of array 'compile_check_c6' is negative 03:08:15 oops no 03:08:31 it was dolorous 03:09:37 moin! 03:10:07 hi! 03:10:57 identifying monster equipment is scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard you're coming up with dirt 03:16:04 I disagree but I won't bother arguing with you 03:18:48 the only winning move is not to play 03:23:19 wtf? http://crawl.develz.org/stats/ I am number 15! 03:23:40 poor bhaak, nobody likes him 03:24:15 I am not a number! 03:25:23 Napkin should of course set up a voting page where we can vote about good and bad quotes from the nicks :-) 03:25:44 hehe 03:29:19 what are those stats? It says ##crawl, but I guess it's ##crawl-dev, right? 03:31:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:32:26 galehar: thanks 03:34:32 galehar: and welcome back! 03:35:59 yay! 03:39:37 hi 03:39:56 :/ re: japan 03:40:25 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:09 having to maintain MST_* -- and even worse, having them in enum.h -- is a chore. What about autogenerating them at build time? 03:42:28 03kilobyte * r4ad0b8b3967c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make Antaeus bloody, he's a titan. 03:42:28 03kilobyte * rffce8c070a1a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-flags.h): Remove M_SPECIAL_ABILITY, nothing queries it. 03:42:38 03kilobyte * rfdb8b3037db0 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give vampires blood. 03:56:22 !tell pointless_ minmay says <3 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=894 03:56:22 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let pointless_ know. 04:17:40 kilobyte: Is there any downside? 04:21:15 kilobyte: Why can't we just include a spellbook definition in the monsterentry? 04:21:19 Keskitalo: apparently forward enum declarations are not supported by old versions of C++ so it won't save on rebuild time -- but that's no regression from enum.h 04:22:07 due: as in, inline? It would stop us from sharing Erolcha with wizards and ogre mages, but that's not an issue. 04:24:17 -!- ekiM has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:24:38 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:42 I'd like due's suggestion too, and I don't like the book sharing much anyway. 04:26:19 03kilobyte * ra68d0c1f2ec3 10/crawl-ref/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Autogenerate MST enums. 04:27:03 (CIA has terrible reflexes, that idea is better) 04:27:42 -!- dazzle has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:22 there'd be large code duplication with variable spellbooks 04:35:57 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:22 kilobyte: Yeah, that's a non-trivial bit. 04:36:44 Radical: 04:36:47 Define spells in Lua. 04:39:20 weights would be cool too, like this book gets 10 weight but that only 5 04:39:57 and also randomization on spell-slot level, like magic dart;blink;blink other/blink closer w:4;nothing;nothing;teleport self 04:40:43 Doable, indeed 04:41:05 Certainly easier than weighting would be in C++, I suppose. 04:42:36 what about writing this as string in mon-data.h? 04:43:08 sounds good to me! 04:43:53 kilobyte: Well, I was just about to say that there's nothing stopping us from just defining the strings in a text file. 04:52:46 we'd have to allow defining all flags, resistances, attacks and so on from text 04:53:08 even worse, some monsters are not uniquely defined by names 04:53:54 yeah 05:01:14 other issues: 1. there's no way to specify the frequency of spell use. When converting fiends to spells, I did that SPELL_MELEE hack. 05:01:33 within text or with the current mechanism? 05:01:49 either 05:02:32 Submerging monsters/changes in water level revealed unexpectedly (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3562) by Nobody 05:03:40 2. there are still remnants of spell slots. Even worse, the only one with a modicum of documentation is the last one (emergency spell). 05:05:00 Hm. 05:05:16 We could just add an SPTYP_EMERGENCY flag to spells and instead of looking in the emergency slot it scans all of them for a possible emergecny spell. 05:05:32 We could also raise the number of spell slots available. 05:05:47 !lg MarvinPA br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:05:47 Unknown selector: br.enter 05:05:50 !lm MarvinPA br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:05:51 35. MarvinPA, XL15 MiBe, T:36463 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:06:26 it seems only the third slot has a special function 05:06:42 Mmm, the white imp entry again 05:07:48 if anything fails, there's a 50% chance of using the third spell slot instead, without handling most of regular logic 05:08:04 no checks for collateral damage, etc 05:11:58 moin 05:11:59 Zaba: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:12:02 !messages 05:12:02 (1/1) due said (13h 6m 5s ago): Thanks for fixing the megacathedral, I didn't realise there was an issue with the marker. 05:12:08 !lm MarvinPA -2 br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:12:08 34. MarvinPA, XL13 MDEE, T:25734 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:12:22 due, no problem :P 05:13:43 thankfully it was not a megaissue :D 05:14:09 neither was the lack of ORIENT 05:17:04 !lg * -tv:nuke 05:17:04 FooTV playlist clear requested by Keskitalo. 05:17:09 !lm kylearan br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:17:10 2. Kylearan, XL14 FeBe, T:28977 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:17:52 oh wow, are Elf wall multicoloured now? 05:17:55 *walls 05:19:14 This map is pretty cool (Zaba's icy tomb) 05:20:56 thanks :P 05:21:36 hehe, hilarious moment there - mistyped movement, stepped right between ice devils and blue devils and the berserk wore off just then 05:21:48 left with 15 hp or so, BiA saved the day (boo) :P 05:22:18 !lm meownced br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:22:18 7. meownced, XL11 MfIE, T:14379 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:23:50 !lg * -tv:nuke 05:23:50 FooTV playlist clear requested by Keskitalo. 05:23:56 !lm meownced -2 br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:23:56 6. meownced, XL9 FeIE, T:14180 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:24:33 37hp.. this should be good 05:25:10 never thought anyone entering an ice cave would have trouble with wolves :P 05:25:16 !lg * -tv:nuke 05:25:16 FooTV playlist clear requested by Keskitalo. 05:25:21 !lm meownced -3 br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:25:21 5. meownced, XL10 HEIE, T:12216 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:25:51 you mean, ice caves actually now have teeth? 05:25:53 need more early ice cave entry vaults 05:26:01 this is a disaster!!1!1!11 05:26:08 kilobyte: yeah, I split them to easy/hard, and easy come much earlier 05:26:21 !lg * -tv:nuke 05:26:21 FooTV playlist clear requested by Keskitalo. 05:26:23 good job 05:26:43 bad part is, that because they are the same uniq_icecave, hard ones come up way too rarely 05:27:03 because easy ones get many chances of being generated before the depth of hard ice caves is reached 05:27:15 03kilobyte * rfe68a0adfedd 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: Loosen the dependencies on generated files to reduce recompiles. 05:27:27 !lm zchris13 br.enter=icecv -tv:>6 05:27:27 2. ZChris13, XL13 HOPr, T:23451 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:27:46 03kilobyte * r7b71993b6a2b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc tiledgnbuf.h): Run checkwhite. 05:27:50 The caves really need a loot review at some point, but I'm pretty happy with this change 05:28:26 03kilobyte * rd361707fdb64 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Make all monster spellbook code private to mon-util.cc 05:29:32 !lm zchris13 br.enter=icecv -tv:<2:>8 05:29:33 2. ZChris13, XL13 HOPr, T:23451 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:33:17 hmh, that just cuts out when the portal is entered 05:33:26 just as well, need to run now 05:34:35 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:39:34 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:13 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:43:27 Well, their speed can go down. 05:47:48 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:48:22 03galehar * rbe085a169e3d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/logo.png: Remove the background colour from the title logo. 05:48:31 03galehar * r55d7a591a876 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Fix tiles compile. 05:48:32 03galehar * r39670e6274f9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-movetarget.cc: Make clinging monsters retry pathfinding more often. 06:01:34 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:55 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:12:06 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:26 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:44 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:59:11 kilobyte: good point about autotools. Any idea how hard it would be to use it? (disclaimer: I'm not volunteering, I'm just curious) 06:59:56 bah, not autotools, please 07:00:46 this isn't the '90s, there really have to be better options than that m4/sh monstrosity that's 99% redundant in the modern world 07:01:47 there should be, but there aren't :( 07:02:04 that doesn't justify using autotools 07:03:07 if you want to use a standard build tool for a c/c++ project, it's an option to consider 07:04:39 what's wrong with autotools? Isn't it used by almost all unix open source projects? 07:05:05 galehar, it's copycatted by pretty much every lazy developer out there, yes. Doesn't make it a good thing, though. 07:05:14 or should I say copypasted 07:05:16 probably, yes 07:06:12 by many. but it's an ugly mix of shell script on top of m4 trying to achieve compatibility with unixes long dead and breaking something every few releases 07:06:18 galehar, 90% of its checks are a useless waste of time, because it's there on any system that you care about 07:06:19 although I didn't have any problem so far :) 07:06:51 s/any/hardly any 07:06:57 galehar, which, among all those configure runs and re-runs, amounts to a large amount of killed time 07:07:41 if you want to check for something for that is no check written yet, you're rather screwed. m4 is the ugly configuration language used in sendmail 07:07:56 bhaak, err, what 07:08:08 m4 is used to generate sendmail configs because sendmail's config language is even worse 07:08:15 they don't have anything in common apart from that 07:09:35 configuring sendmail is the only other use of m4. that should speak for itself for the quality of m4 07:09:58 galehar, autotools are too overengineered and bloated if all that is wanted is a 'configure' stage of a build project that sets various flags so that they don't need to be repeated in different invocations of 'make' 07:10:07 bhaak, m4 is a generic macro processor. I use it to build sites, for example. 07:10:12 bhaak: Let's change that, migrate Crawl to use m4 instead of lua. 07:10:22 Zaba: you're insane! 07:10:33 why? I would be insane if I used cpp. 07:10:57 also, that should speak for the quality of _sendmail_, not m4 :P 07:11:11 m4 is used to cover up sendmail's insanity 07:11:46 which only implies that sendmail's insanity is worse than anything lovecraft did think of 07:12:01 but it's generally quite useful and not really insane. Things like autotools and sendmail just hurt its reputation unjustly 07:12:38 autotools is also somewhat hard if you don't have enough shell script knowledge 07:13:24 I've also heard that many checks in autotools nowadays are not that good, that they in fact mostly check for GNU tools compatibility 07:14:21 some of them are plain broken but preserved as such because projects rely on that 07:15:35 if a project happens to use autotools for historical reasons, fine. But adding them to an existing project is an exercise in pointless insanity bordering with crime :P 07:15:36 really? how stupid, that completely defies the original purporse 07:16:07 anyway, bbl 07:22:01 99% of autoconf should be thrown away... you can reproduce most compile checks in several pages of code 07:22:15 automake, though, is a great help 07:22:23 and sadly, it depends on autoconf 07:24:51 for example, you don't have to think about dependencies. At most you need to tell it what the autogenerated headers are -- most projects don't have them but we do. 07:26:50 during bootstrap it will assume every source file depends on all headers -- not a loss since you need to build everything anyway, and then learn so subsequent rebuilds are faster 07:52:08 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:44 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:34 one advantage that AFAIK no other build system has, is that autotools offers you to use your makefiles with little modifications 07:55:00 makes transition way easier than starting completely from scratch 07:58:05 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:30 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:05:18 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:46 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:58 hmm, i get an error compiling now after the autogenerate mst enums commit - "Didn't find any MST enums. make: *** [mon-mst.h] Error 9" 08:28:26 from make? Interesting... 08:28:51 hrm, you do run it from the proper dir, otherwise it would fail earlier 08:29:21 so somehow no line matches... are you on Windows, per chance? 08:29:31 i am indeed :P 08:30:08 using msysgit, just pulled and did make in crawl-ref/source to get that error 08:36:21 sorry, work 08:36:26 I bet it's a newline issue 08:36:45 could you stick "\s*" just before "$"? 08:38:41 in util/gen-mst.pl I mean 08:38:55 the line that tries to match MST_ 08:39:02 ah yeah 08:39:58 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:21 yeah, that did the trick 08:47:24 03kilobyte * r9b3b73942657 10/crawl-ref/git-hooks/pre-commit: Properly ignore tabs in the pre-commit hook. 08:47:37 03kilobyte * r81205422ceb0 10/crawl-ref/source/util/gen-mst.pl: Handle Windows newlines when generating MST. 08:47:50 03kilobyte * rb06ab47ec7ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-spll.h): Take flame breath away from fire bats. 08:48:07 03kilobyte * r99903ee246ce 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: Put build.h and compflag.h into GENERATED_FILES since they are ones. 08:52:51 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:55 is it ok tu use flexible array member or should I use a vector instead? 09:02:16 the former is faster, the latter handles size changes, neither has range checks 09:08:29 seems if I make a struct with a flexible array member, then I cannot create an array of it. 09:11:38 of course, since it doesn't have a fixed size 09:14:00 kilobyte: it seems like monster spellbooks aren't actually getting loaded now :( 09:15:10 trog burned them all 09:15:55 also: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=10201#p10201 09:16:10 what a good idea 09:16:17 * MarvinPA gives liches patrolling tag 09:17:48 MarvinPA: give all liches the patrolling tag, tied to a randart on the level (their phylactery) 09:18:29 heh 09:18:45 does that mean if you scum ood spawns, the liches come with free randarts attached? :P 09:20:56 oh nice the liches behind glass vault can have an ocs as well 09:21:03 damn, what's wrong with that? http://pastebin.com/zgVSUnWj 09:21:04 MarvinPA: free +MUT ones, of course 09:21:11 error: too many initializers for 'job_type [0]' 09:22:52 galehar: i think [] only works in C++ if you immediately initialize it with a given # of things 09:22:57 galehar: I'd fathom a guess that aggregate initializers and ZLAs are implementation defined. 09:23:00 otherwise it gets magicked to 0 09:23:06 Particularly as ZLAs are not part of C++. 09:23:23 If it's C99 (with whatever syntax they allow), there might be some provision for them. 09:23:44 i ran into something similar with zin, because i don't know syntax at all, and was utterly failing when i tried to make any kind of array-ish structure 09:24:01 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:36 what's zla? 09:24:42 I cannot see how that syntax would work at all, really, as a type must have a single size in C++. 09:24:47 galehar: Zero-Length-Array. 09:25:15 galehar: In C, it's common to have a ZLA at the end of a struct-type, allocate more memory than required for the type, and use the array to index the bonus memory. 09:25:59 So you can do something like job_group warriors = malloc(sizeof(job_group) + 9 * sizeof(job_type)); 09:26:31 it's not a zla then. It's a flexible array member, a feature of C99, but obviously, I don't know how to use it. I guess I have to allocate the memory, but I thought that assigning it a constant should do it (size is known at compile time) 09:26:54 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:54 * Zao hits the standard 09:28:40 Ah, 6.7.2.1c2 describes flexible array members. 09:31:16 I see no mention of aggregate initializers and flexible array members in 6.7.8, sadly. 09:31:30 I'd say it's ill-formed to attempt to initialize such a member like that. 09:46:14 ok, let's keep it simple, I'm using static array 09:46:59 is there any syntax magic to abbreviate "JOB_UNKNOWN, JOB_UNKNOWN, JOB_UNKNOWN, JOB_UNKNOWN" to JOB_UNKNOWN x 4 or something? 09:47:34 Outside of macro abuse, I do not believe there is. 09:48:25 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:48 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:20 -!- froggy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:30 -!- froggy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:35:57 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:36 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:03 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:05 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:07:47 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:25 03MarvinPA * rc653ba3922f9 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Update an example in the level syntax docs 11:34:33 03MarvinPA * ra7913933d971 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des: Make the liches behind glass guard their loot 11:34:35 03MarvinPA * rdba2feda17ab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/blade.des dungeon.cc): Shrink the hall of blades, guarantee a single rare weapon with a brand 11:45:53 heh.. http://www.kongregate.com/games/Void/hack-slash-crawl 12:09:45 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:48 due to a level gen error, Ilsuiw spawned in Japan 12:14:03 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:43 ortoslon, is that bug in my jurisdiction? 12:20:45 crap! 12:53:35 do we have a Japan branch now? 12:55:56 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:56:03 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:47 -!- kilobyte has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:04:29 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:27 door mimics trail shadows of themselves (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3563) by Joellercoaster 13:18:52 -!- axesquid has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:46 -!- eith has quit [Quit: sleep] 13:36:16 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:29 03dolorous * r36704966e0b2 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Remove one last now-unnecessary check regarding mons_make_god_gift(). 13:54:14 03dolorous * rc780e151004f 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Add formatting fixes. 14:32:47 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:44 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:22 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:57 hey 15:21:51 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:30 -!- ekiM has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:08 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:33 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:33 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:27 03galehar * rc9a628a6d3a0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (jobs.cc jobs.h newgame.cc newgame.h): New background choice layout. 16:07:17 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:34 -!- axesquid has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:18:18 03kilobyte * rc7cddca08326 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix non-ghost spells not getting loaded. 16:29:39 galehar: imo "god who likes it when you explore" is more obvious than "god who likes it when you are careful" :P 16:30:09 though keep in mind I'm obligated to defend that idea because of the excellent pun 16:30:16 pun? what 16:30:30 Buffy the god of buffs 16:30:41 :/ 16:30:57 also, I think you should implement the experience per skill level changes 16:31:24 I plan to do it just after the release of 0.8 16:31:36 making them linear instead of the current "randomly jump around then spike and plateau for no reason" 16:31:38 ok, cool 16:31:38 because there will probably need some rebalancing to do 16:31:43 <3 16:32:04 changing them to be Slash'EM-like rather than NetHack-like? 16:32:09 the new scale is not exactly linear, but it's mor "regular" 16:32:15 well, yeah 16:32:20 quadratic? 16:32:29 that's the most common experience scale in games, IIRC 16:32:41 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:experience_system/ 16:33:28 happy to know that the idea has some support :) 16:34:00 it's a good idea 16:34:15 I actually didn't even know the xp system was that bad until looking at the wiki page. the current system makes no sense 16:38:46 it wouldn't make sense to alter just skills but not xl 16:38:57 is xl also dumb? 16:39:08 yes, mostly the same formula 16:39:12 xl atm is even more insane than it is in NetHack, and follows a similar pattern 16:39:32 are you saying that a sane xl formula would be nethackish 16:39:34 abort abort 16:40:13 03kilobyte * rd57c28b011a5 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Don't make a monster at the edge of LOS leave a trail. 16:40:32 well, it's hard to have xl more broken than in NetHack 16:40:33 kilobyte: <3 16:41:25 there, you basically don't get levels for xp anymore once you get past a certain level... it's all potions, eating wraiths and doing foocubi 16:43:10 I can already hear dpeg saying: "You shall not pass this commit!" 16:44:44 kilobyte: it seems it's the derivative of the XL which has the same scale as the skill level scale. 16:45:43 also, <3 fix to trails. I had a idea to do idea which was much more complex. 16:46:01 Maybe we can do it also for monsters taking stairs with you 16:52:35 Game fails to protect player from harmful clouds (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3564) by minmay 17:08:15 03kilobyte * r3702d5b55c4e 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Don't make monster memory stick if the monster took the stairs with you. 17:14:20 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:29 :) 17:14:59 are there other cases like this? 17:15:28 I don't think so. 17:28:33 x should be able to scroll offscreen 17:28:40 or, X should give descriptions like x 17:29:02 also I think it still says "a magical trap" for out of los teleportation traps 17:41:37 a guy just quit crawl because he couldn't find the settings 17:41:41 it does, yes 17:41:45 that is annoying 17:41:47 and because view_max_width is absurd 17:41:52 the magical trap thing not the other thing 17:41:57 MarvinPA: I thought that was fixed but it might not have been 17:42:01 or it might have broken again 17:42:05 i dunno 17:42:17 i remember running into it when i wanted to escape zot:5 by abusing a teleport trap 17:42:23 but that was a while ago 17:42:53 view_max_width is useless. It's already ignored in tiles. I might fix console and remove the option someday. 17:43:05 galehar: http://ompldr.org/vN3JwOA 17:43:09 could be nice 17:43:50 could someone say where linux crawl settings are on ##crawl 17:43:50 is the charpane fixed in width? 17:44:09 also, could you make the game fail immediately on start rather than waiting for certain actions (like entering the skills screen)? 17:44:27 i am all for making the game fail immediately on start 17:44:57 well, we really need to, because now the background selection screen also relies on 80 width. 17:45:36 there's a wiki page about removing a bunch of options, should remove them all at once :D 17:45:45 it's quite tricky what to do during resizes, though 17:45:46 I'll look into the startup check and it was really weird. I should just rewrite something simple. Not tonight though... 17:45:46 oh actually that does remind me 17:45:55 MarvinPA: thanks for reminding us! 17:45:57 another idea: if someone has a wide terminal, put XL where it used to be 17:46:03 OG17: when I played they were in ~/.crawl 17:46:04 because it's better there 17:46:17 can 034_changes.txt get moved from /docs to /docs/obsolete 17:46:24 or something 17:46:28 the fact that this guy can't find them, and that he complains about not bneing able to access root means his problem is more that he doesn't know how to use his computer 17:46:29 TGWi: just curious, what font it is in your screenshot? 17:46:37 because seriously, we're up to 0.8 now :P 17:46:40 kilobyte: it's not my screenshot 17:46:54 it's from argos-void 17:47:03 it is truly disgusting though :( 17:47:08 terminal 4 lyf 17:47:09 MarvinPA: sure. 17:47:33 almost as bad a valrus' font 17:47:41 i feel like the docs folder would be better if it contained much less 17:47:49 valrus' font is awesome like a train wreck 17:48:02 that is the kind of awesome I strive for 17:48:07 but i guess most of the stuff in there now is fairly reasonable (other than 034_changes) 17:48:42 yeah tgwi boyyeeeeeeeeeeee 17:48:58 boyyeeeeeeeeeee 17:50:16 is there a fixed-space version of comic sans? 17:50:21 haha 17:51:51 what makes you think I would know? 17:52:30 you seem like that kind of guy 17:53:00 While our new spell balance expert is around, let me ask: shouldn't we nerf throw icicle to 50% irresistible? 17:53:17 no 17:53:31 (it's me i am your new spell balance expert) 17:53:38 is 0.8 just nerf everything so EE is the easiest 17:54:16 of course not, that's ridiculous 17:54:25 it's nerf everything except EE so EE is the easiest 17:54:41 ??throw icicle 17:54:41 throw icicle[1/2]: A 4th level Ice/Conjuration spell. Throw Icicle casts a single-target projectile of high-velocity ice, doing mixed cold and physical damage.  25% of the damage can be mitigated by cold resistance. 3d20 at max power. In the Book of Frost. 17:55:10 the new background menu is awesome, incidentally 17:55:19 :) 17:55:50 It seems that icicle is almost always better than IMB. 17:56:23 but yeah, i don't know how much but making icicle a bit more resistible is probably reasonable 17:57:14 imb is better without ice 17:57:18 do you want it to be better with ice too 17:58:31 imb does less damage though 17:58:41 spell power deals damage 17:59:24 ideally they wouldn't be trying to fill more or less the same slot, but TI isn't overpowered and IMB isn't useless 18:00:13 icicle is much worse than imb without ice skill 18:00:17 true, probably the best thing to do is to nerf EE a bit again :P 18:00:47 furthermore, the best way to fix this without damaging the game is changing imb 18:00:49 instead of ti 18:00:59 since imb isn't anyone's starting spell 18:02:46 but I think that giving IE an (almost) unresistible spell is a bit against the spirit of elementalist. If you can ignore cold resisting monsters, then you might as well play a conjurer. 18:02:48 fe and ae cope fine with no irresistible damage, i'm sure ie could cope 18:03:01 if you can't deal any damage to rC you might as well play ae conjurer 18:03:07 s/ae/a/ 18:03:17 rF isn't common in early game beyond imps 18:03:23 50% isn't no damage 18:03:24 nor rE 18:05:03 ??bolt of magma 18:05:03 bolt of magma[1/1]: 35% resistible conjuration, generally considered underpowered. Multi-target, but shorter range than bolt of fire or cold. 18:05:48 it's good if different elementalists have different features 18:05:49 magma is pretty good at 35% resistible (ignoring the poor range and being 3 schools), maybe icicle could go to 35% as well 18:05:59 bolt of magma probably wouldn't be considered underpowered if it wasn't 3-school 18:06:09 and earth and poison casters can damage resistant monsters anyway 18:06:44 icicle has great range. 18:07:04 it's one better than imb 18:07:38 03galehar * rce37395c497b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc item_use.cc main.cc mon-stuff.cc): Clear clinging status on teleport and dispersal. 18:07:38 03galehar * r0e44d65949b7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc player.cc): Don't cling to the wall when levitating. 18:07:38 03galehar * r1f0181732b16 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Make trampling use move_player_to_grid function. 18:09:16 -1 range to icicle and give imb full range 18:10:21 that's interesting 18:10:45 full range does make it like magic dart on steroids. Is it good? 18:11:12 We can even increase its accuracy. 18:11:35 full-range IMB sounds like a significant conjurer buff 18:11:43 +range and +accuracy would be excessive, imb is already good enough as it is 18:12:03 why do people do the magic dart analogy 18:12:05 galehar: huh? but I think that giving IE an (almost) unresistible spell is a bit against the spirit of elementalist. If you can ignore cold resisting monsters, then you might as well play a conjurer. 18:12:05 imb isn't even that accurate 18:12:11 galehar: personally I don't see what the problem is with icicle vs IMB 18:12:16 earth elementalist: you may as well play a conjurer? 18:12:23 galehar: icicle is better for ice casters, IMB is better for non-ice casters 18:12:32 galehar: this is how it should be 18:13:05 ok, fine with the comparison with IMB then. 18:13:35 but doesn't icicle make rC irrelevant for middle level IE? 18:13:47 saying that it is strange to give IE that much unresistible damage is another matter, but don't \make all ice casters prefer IMB to throw icicle :) 18:13:56 you can't use freeze! 18:13:58 shoudln't they have a hard time against cold resisting monster? Look for alternatives? 18:14:10 not totally ireelevant. It's also worth noting rC is pretty common on monsters (undead) compared to rF and rElec 18:14:20 not being able to use freeze = use all your mp on one monster 18:14:41 it isn't irrelevant, yeah... icicle on undead is okay but still not that much fun 18:15:23 imo don't make icicle just worse than bolt of cold 18:15:36 okay, so maybe just a nerf to 35% resistible just like bolt of magma then. 18:15:49 why 18:15:50 because the devteam must nerf every spell 18:16:07 did you mean buff 18:16:08 galehar: please nerf IMB also then 18:16:21 do you think TI is overpowered 18:16:24 galehar: makhing it 35% resistible means that ice casters will prefer IMB 18:16:31 oh misread 18:16:37 oh, 35% resistible 18:16:40 that's okay 18:16:49 I thought irresistible 18:17:19 I usually think of TI as 75% irresistible rather than 25% resistible for some reason 18:17:39 btw on the matter of air elementalists: they do have a problem in that their L4 spell is completely worthless and everyone just takes IMB 18:17:46 also why is this a topic, icicle has never been a problem 18:18:05 (or airstrike) 18:18:06 "elementalist" casts elemental spells, there's nothing implicitly saying that one of those spells can't have a physical component 18:18:11 Yes, me too, it's just that MarvinPA compared it with bolt of magma and saying that it's 35% resistible. 18:18:22 bolt of magma is quite different 18:18:22 well bolt of magma is a bolt 18:18:28 and level 5 and fire 18:18:39 i don't think it's hugely problematic, but it'd also probably still be perfectly good at 35% irresistible 18:18:44 and a 35% icicle is going to be used exactly like the current one 18:18:49 yes 18:19:05 I don't get the motivation 18:19:39 marvinpa: yeah 18:19:48 why consider throw icicle and not static discharge 18:20:41 TI is better balanced because it is used by its target audience and only other schools if they decide to go into ice / are short on spellbooks 18:21:43 The motivation is that I find it strange that an IE wouldn't even consider learning another mid level conjuration and keep using a spell from his starting book against monsters with rC+++. But seems like it isn't a big deal. 18:21:56 Sticky flame is much worse in this respect 18:22:03 you don't need any fire magic to use it 18:22:04 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:09 you can just pick it up and cast it at stuff 18:22:16 is bolt of cold a mid level conjuration? IE should pick that up 18:22:16 icicle exists for that 18:22:40 if you need imb anyway you should dump icicle and give IE imb 18:22:57 IE does use bolt of cold. But you can't cast L6 spells all the time 18:24:03 -!- ekiM has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:05 also it's not irresistable so 18:24:24 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:07 oh I didn't mean they should get it in their starting book, I meant they should memorize it if they find it 18:25:26 (in response to galehar's comment about IE not considering picking up any other mid level conjurations) 18:25:40 IE also picks up poison arrow probably 18:25:45 if they want to go the conj route 18:25:58 yeah, that's another very solid choice 18:27:45 basically the only char who picks two L4 spells currently is a fire caster, who wants both sticky flame and IMB 18:28:04 so singling out IE for this is a little strange 18:28:33 dispel undead & imb ;) 18:29:09 Dispel Undead is a complete no-brainer if you have even a bit of Necromancy 18:29:31 look how common the book is 18:29:46 now, consider the cost in shops and the cost in spell levels 18:30:15 and finally consider the cost of raising necro to 8-10 or so where it's useful 18:30:36 balance this against melee or the use of conjurations or summons and you have yourself a not no-brainer 18:30:42 well, I wasn't considering dispel undead 18:30:55 everyone wants that of course :) 18:31:03 I meant conjurations 18:31:05 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:28 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:03 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:14 03MarvinPA * rc2ad52ce2a99 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des: Replace Cherub in an abyss vault with an Angel to fix unfinished errors 19:05:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:08:14 03MarvinPA * r908e246a9245 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Move silence from the book of Maledictions to War Chants (replace haste) 19:16:55 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:33:00 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:22 new holies are in a pretty bad shape :( 19:41:40 holy dragons: no tiles for any of abilities. Dark violet "holy energy" doesn't look right. "Holy flames" are bugged too. (I checked it first in tiles). 19:41:57 shedu: the second in the band spawns on walls 19:42:16 also, speeds are out of whack 19:45:48 sounds like they'd fit in crawl perfectly, then 19:45:50 @??psyche 19:45:51 Psyche (13@) | Speed: 13 | HD: 5 | Health: 39 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Damage: 7 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(26) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 371 | Sp: throw frost (3d6), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d6), magic dart (3d4), invisibility. 19:46:22 ophans are "mindless", even though they're supposed to be high-ranking angels 19:48:17 shedu corpses are broken, too 19:49:07 resurrected shedu spawn on walls too 19:49:55 it would be really nice if monsters would stop spanwing in walls and spawning on the other side of walls 19:50:00 i don't think this is ever desirable behavior 19:50:17 i'm not sure why any of the monster placement functions permit it 19:56:51 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:17 03kilobyte * r88c278f6318f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (rltiles/dc-corpse.txt tilepick.cc): Fix shedu corpses in tiles. 20:10:28 03kilobyte * rfd00f1975eb6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 3 dirs): A testing vault for new holies. 20:13:08 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:28:40 assorted holyhaul problems (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3565) by KiloByte 20:32:00 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:16 none of those things are bugs 20:37:26 except 3 20:37:40 and 5-6 I guess? 20:48:03 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:18 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:01:29 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:03 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 21:18:56 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:31 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:04 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:11 Is there an artificer God in trunk yet? 22:22:45 There should be a God of flexibility and adaptability. He's especially good for Invokers and Transmuters. 22:23:11 He likes it when you get kills by different means (different damage types, and so forth) in a short period of time. 22:23:52 Also, his awards and apparent morality shift to match yours. So, if you're good for a while, he'll stop boosting your necromancy and start helping you against negative energy, for example. 22:25:08 This will need fleshing out but: his benefits drift steadily over time, and if you over-use some tactic, he gets miffed and sends monsters against you which are resistant to it. 22:25:34 He consistently provides benefits when using wands and rods, but he might scramble the spells in your rods for you. 22:41:38 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:27 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:29 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:21 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:40 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:10:03 -!- ekiM has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:55 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:23 there's already an artificer-y god but he's OP and boring 23:30:26 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:33 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:50 TGWi, do you mean Nemelex or do you mean the proposal that's been floating around on the wiki? 23:32:58 nemelex 23:33:28 Nemelex isn't my favorite god either, but I don't think he really counts as an artificer god, just b/c he shares the skill. 23:38:26 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5688-g88c278f 23:54:37 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5688-g88c278f (32)