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03:22:09 <Napkin> moin!
03:22:42 <galehar> hey
03:23:02 <Napkin> pity, still no write access on c-r-c
03:23:07 <Napkin> hey galehar :)
03:23:12 <Napkin> what's up?
03:23:21 <galehar> not much
03:23:37 <Napkin> same here ;)
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04:13:42 <dpeg> What's up`
04:13:57 <dpeg> My irssi looks strange...
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04:50:06 <Napkin> ctrl+l, dpeg
04:54:35 <dpeg> = redraw?
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05:01:32 <Napkin> yes
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05:43:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to  ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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05:49:22 <Nexos> Hmm... something odd: I've SH:28, and when I put on a +6 ring of dexterity, my SH *decreases* to 27... seems a bug, no?
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05:49:48 <Nexos> Some sort of rounding error?
05:49:57 <Nexos> Hmm... something odd: I've SH:28, and when I put on a +6 ring of dexterity, my SH *decreases* to 27... seems a bug, no?
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05:52:06 <Nexos> A +n ring of dexterity should actually never decrease SH "stat", right?
05:52:13 <kilobyte> yeah
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06:13:11 <dpeg> Nexos: file a bug report, please
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06:21:50 <Nexos> dpeg: OK will do... just trying to reproduce in wiz mode
06:37:06 <Nexos> Is there any way to set a +n stat on a ring/armour piece in wizmode?
06:37:52 <Nexos> I have problems reproducing the bug
06:41:27 <Keskitalo> there's some clumsyish "tweak object properties" wiz command or so
06:41:56 <Nexos> OK found it; you just can't ask for a +n object in the first place
06:42:17 <Keskitalo> yeah, couild be better, that
06:45:35 <Keskitalo> next usability testing, lets target wizmode ;)
06:46:15 <Nexos> Hmm... and to change the racial (e.g. to get dwarven gloves instead of gloves), I checked the tweak, and there's "c - special" and "e - flags" with hex values... a bit cryptic to me
06:46:45 <Nexos> Are the legal values harcoded somewhere in the code?
06:54:43 <kilobyte> no, you can write any flags, even those that will cause a crash
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06:57:41 <Zaba> most likely they'll just be ignored, though...
06:57:43 <Zaba> the invalid ones, that is
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07:01:20 <Nexos> Well OK I skimmed through the code, but I'm just not familiar enough to find the right place... If I just give detailed stats + equipment in the bug report, would it be enough?
07:02:42 <kilobyte> do you have the save file?
07:03:28 <Nexos> Playing on CAO... IIRC there was a magic command to create the dump ?
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07:07:01 <dpeg> doing a Spider's Nest without rPois, but with Powered by Death 3 <3
07:08:35 <kilobyte> hrm, CAO lacks most of the functionality
07:08:42 <kilobyte> wasn't there an option in the menu?
07:08:53 <kilobyte> but I can't seem to find it
07:09:16 <Nexos> found !copysave
07:09:40 <kilobyte> Henzell seems to ignore queries, though
07:09:43 <Nexos> someone would have to upload it to the bug report once it's done
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07:18:59 <Ashenzari> Removing a +n ring of dexterity can increase SH stat (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3455) by Nexos
07:19:38 <Nexos> Can someone attach Nexos-20110217080851-bugRingDexDecreasesSH.tar.bz2 copysave file to the bug report, please?
07:20:48 <Nexos> (from CAO)
07:23:45 <galehar> Nexos: item flags are in enum.h:1559
07:29:28 <Nexos> galehar: OK thx
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07:53:17 <Nexos> Can someone please upload CAO-copysave'd file Nexos-20110217080851-bugRingDexDecreasesSH.tar.bz2 to bug 3455? It seems inaccessible for web users, and I've no (s)ftp access to CAO, so it's impossible for me...
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08:07:17 <upsy> Nexos: why not just add that filename to the bug report
08:07:33 <Nexos> ok will do
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08:26:38 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * r725b90b4a770 10/crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc: For scroll acq, give a boost to quick blades.
08:26:49 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * r9f1b6d0f1746 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Make corpses received from Kiku actually fit for reanimation.
08:27:00 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * r5cb502c97322 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Fix a possible crash in Kiku's receive corpses.
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09:16:19 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * ra4d45caf8c4f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Disable monster tiers spam.
09:19:40 <Ashenzari> mesmerisation issues (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3456) by galehar
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11:15:16 <Eronarn> http://io9.com/#!5762300/meet-the-fastest-deadliest-carnivore-in-the-plant-kingdom new swamp monster
11:15:39 <Eronarn> (some can apparently eat tadpoles!)
11:34:30 <bhaak> why is there no csplat on termcast.org?
11:36:16 <ais523> termcast.org crashed a while ago
11:36:24 <ais523> when it came back up, only SplatTV came back up with it
11:36:25 <Zaba> it's on termcast.develz.org
11:39:20 <bhaak> you guys are killing. you'd probably quickly set up a set up second internet when the first would go down
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13:17:38 <Napkin> bhaak :D
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13:26:21 <CIA-26> 03galehar * r1b46cc3e5bb0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (it_use2.cc item_use.cc): Print the potion name when it is identified.
13:26:32 <CIA-26> 03galehar * ra9e6ede60504 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Fix corpse placement not working well on levels with high wall density.
13:26:32 <CIA-26> 03galehar * r180b7c537c0c 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Print the scroll name when it is identified.
13:38:16 <CIA-26> 03j-p-e-g * r1b65636845c4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc food.cc food.h item_use.cc itemname.cc l_food.cc): Fix misinformation when clicking on rotten chunks as a non-saprovore.
13:38:29 <CIA-26> 03j-p-e-g * r36cea3e42b02 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson2.des hints.cc tutorial.cc): Add a tutorial message when chunks in your inventory become rotten.
13:42:16 <kilobyte> bhaak: well, after Egypt, and bastards like Obama planning a shutdown switch, it's better to be prepared :p
13:45:01 <kilobyte> Napkin: commit notifications come with a From: "Marc H. Thoben" <crawl-ref-discuss@ml.develz.org>
13:45:17 <Napkin> yes, those are the ones i'm forwarding manually
13:45:25 <kilobyte> ah
13:45:29 <Napkin> and i'm too late to set a separate identify in thunderbird ;)
13:45:35 <Napkin> *lazy
13:45:45 <kilobyte> procmail?
13:46:00 <Napkin> na, it's just a one time thing now
13:46:08 <Napkin> all further will be sent automatically
13:46:18 <kilobyte> ok, that's what I wanted to know
13:46:20 <Napkin> i hope nobody goes crazy that i forward them to c-r-d
13:46:27 <kilobyte> cool beans
13:46:41 <Napkin> but.. seems like nat is not in to allow write access to c-r-c
13:48:29 <kilobyte> I can procmail them away to whatever mailbox I want on my side so I'm personally not affected, not sure about other guys
13:48:50 <kilobyte> no idea about SF-side setup :(
13:50:40 <Napkin> oh shoot - forgot disable word-wrap in one of the forwarded emails..
13:50:41 <Napkin> oh well
13:51:18 <kilobyte> the sky is falling!
13:51:25 <kilobyte> run, run for your lives!!!!!!
13:51:32 <Napkin> and my head probably rolling soon ;)
13:53:44 <bhaak> kilobyte: but the revolution in Egypt wouldn't have happened if they all were playing crawl!
13:55:28 <kilobyte> fortunately I have failbook blocked, so I'm safe
13:56:07 <kilobyte> due to ads, "facebook connect" and likes rather than it being a threat to my evil empire, but still
14:10:13 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * r7c96f4ae3235 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-tornado.cc: Tornado+Leda -> no flying.
14:10:55 <Napkin> ok, seems to work :)
14:11:21 <Napkin> it's fetching from gitorious.org every 2 minutes, btw
14:14:59 <bhaak> erm, Napkin, did you want to bombard crd with the commit mails?
14:15:25 <Napkin> yes
14:15:43 <bhaak> ok :)
14:15:56 <Napkin> should only be temporary measure though
14:16:08 <Napkin> until i finally get write access to the crc ml
14:16:47 <Napkin> so.. i thought it's better this way than not informing devs of commits at all
14:17:03 <kilobyte> well, "git log" works too
14:17:24 <Napkin> a little pressure won't hurt ;)
14:39:20 <Napkin> kilobyte - when did you send the email to crc?
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14:46:18 <kilobyte> Napkin: several times by mistake, one at 2011-02-16 15:31:14
14:46:40 <Napkin> roger, roger - just thought some mistake with a time setting somewhere
14:48:48 <elliptic> kilobyte: just noticed that Darkness was added... what is the plan to stop LoS reducing from being broken?
14:53:38 <Eronarn> Darkness?
14:54:19 <elliptic> http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl-ref.git;a=commit;h=013ac4b423fa13004267fb0a68fc967f4f52dac5
14:54:59 <Eronarn> ughhh
14:55:52 <kilobyte> are spell ranges the only issue, or is there something else?
14:56:21 <Napkin> i remember travel exclusions not adjusting to nightstalker
14:56:32 <TGWi> what's the point?
14:56:57 <TGWi> (of los reduction, if not spell ranges)
14:57:11 <elliptic> kilobyte: I was thinking of the abuses with conjurations, yes
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14:58:01 <Eronarn> nightstalker as always on is both terrible and broken at the same time
14:58:06 <Eronarn> this will just be broken
14:58:20 <Napkin> <3 nightstalker
14:58:37 <TGWi> </3 nightstalker
14:59:00 <TGWi> mostly the name but los reduction too
15:00:15 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * re2f62d56f219 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Xom's miscasts: spiders do have eyes.
15:00:26 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * rd777d01b5a49 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/godspeak.txt godprayer.cc): Fix Xom being "exalted" by your prayer.
15:01:01 <RjY> photophobia
15:01:21 <TGWi> see, that would have been cool
15:01:31 <TGWi> instead we get fantasy words
15:01:34 <TGWi> anyway
15:01:47 <Napkin> complainy bunch
15:02:31 <RjY> TGWi: what do you think of the los reduction spell :)
15:02:45 <TGWi> los reduction is a bad mechanic
15:03:11 <kilobyte> likely broken, but it's on the same boat as Nightstalker
15:03:25 <Eronarn> you forgot the 'very' and the 'already tested and found to be'
15:03:36 <kilobyte> uhm no
15:04:19 <kilobyte> you can abuse it due to spell ranges not being affected, but that's a bug rather than an intentional effect
15:04:34 <TGWi> what are intentional effects?
15:04:41 <kilobyte> and most people play without abuse
15:05:36 <kilobyte> of course, an already known abusable bug is a release blocker, we don't want people to scum Nightstalkers and magic dart out of LOS
15:06:25 <TGWi> what are intentional effects of los reduction?
15:07:20 <kilobyte> sneaking up on stuff, being safer against ranged attacks, walking around places like Tomb with little harassment
15:07:59 <TGWi> what I don't like is that it's an effect you really want while you're not in combat
15:08:19 <Eronarn> not sure what the most hilarious part of this is: that we're considering bringing in another nightstalker effect; that we're considering a toggleable LOS effect; or that we're putting this effect in the school with all of the stabbing magic
15:08:21 <TGWi> so it's a burden to use it optimally
15:08:47 <TGWi> plus those are all things that hexes can do already
15:09:01 <elliptic> I like the idea of the darkness spell aside from the conjuration abuses
15:09:19 <elliptic> it has interesting possibilities and is less annoying than nightstalker
15:09:27 <kilobyte> Eronarn: toggleable LOS reduction is already in (lantern of shadows) and no one ever uses it
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15:09:47 <elliptic> well, lantern of shadows also completely nerfs your stealth and your spellpower
15:09:59 <Eronarn> and prevents you from using weapons or unarmed
15:10:02 <elliptic> how does darkness affect your stealth?
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15:11:28 <kilobyte> no change unless you're glowing
15:12:26 <RjY> why is it bad that you can conjurate outside of los? i mean obviously you can shoot things that can't see you but you can do that with ranged combat as well (i think, please correct me if i'm wrong)
15:13:27 <RjY> or is that a really stupid question, i don't know
15:13:48 <elliptic> it is a problem with ranged weapons and LoS reducers too
15:14:04 <kilobyte> generally, with all targetting
15:15:30 <casmith789> RjY: the general mechanic of targetting things that can't fight back and don't attempt to is a bad one
15:15:34 <RjY> okay fair enough, so it's not an intended inconsistency. that's what i wanted to know
15:16:06 <elliptic> at the same time, being able to fire stuff at that pale draconian even after it breathes steam everywhere might be intentional
15:16:30 <elliptic> even though that's basically the same situation
15:16:55 <casmith789> it was the pale draconians fault!
15:17:14 <casmith789> it also knows where you are and will aim to reach you
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15:17:26 <casmith789> firing outside LOS the monsters will just wander around
15:19:16 <elliptic> yeah, but mechanically it is similar
15:20:13 <elliptic> when abusing LoS reducers you actually don't necessarily want the monsters to wander around unless you have detection from ash or antennae
15:20:43 <elliptic> you can just cerebov down a hallway forever if he knows where you are and your stealth isn't huge
15:20:48 <elliptic> *kite cerebov
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15:50:21 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * r1908ecb5c82a 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-tornado.cc: Silent Tornado? Hah.
15:59:43 <elliptic> kilobyte: it looks to me (and agrees with my experience) that even silent spells cause noise in places with low ambient noise
15:59:51 <elliptic> any idea whether this is intentional?
16:00:25 <elliptic> (it calls noisy() with original_loudness = 0, which then gets increased)
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16:07:10 <kilobyte> elliptic: not sure, but I don't know what the original intent was
16:11:47 <Napkin> kilobyte?
16:11:56 <Ashenzari> Autotravel gives away shop mimics (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3457) by Kyrris
16:11:56 <kilobyte> Napkin: meow?
16:11:56 <elliptic> it seems a little strange to me (silent spells should still be silent) so maybe I'll bug report it and let whoever is responsible for noise stuff decide
16:12:15 <Napkin> would you have some time to check the code about showing the disk location of morgues on the scorescreen?
16:12:37 <Napkin> it should be disabled for DGL builds
16:12:50 <Napkin> jpeg seems to have used the wrong define check
16:14:26 <kilobyte> "You can find your morgue file in the '%s' directory." -- this one?
16:14:37 <kilobyte> the #ifdef seems correct to me
16:15:07 <kilobyte> committed at 2011-02-14 20:39:00
16:15:08 <Napkin> give me 1s to die - playing sprint ;)
16:15:25 <kilobyte> CDO was last updated 2011-02-14 06:54
16:15:36 <Napkin> oh?
16:15:57 <Napkin> true!
16:16:04 <Napkin> sorry then
16:16:11 <kilobyte> the cronjob trigger once a century or rarer
16:16:18 <kilobyte> triggers
16:16:22 <Napkin> i had the feeling i spoke to her last week
16:16:29 <Napkin> pardon?
16:16:57 <Ashenzari> Silent spells still cause noise in locations with negative ambient noise. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3458) by elliptic
16:17:19 <Napkin> well, if people would clean up after themselves better, i could do more builds
16:17:22 <Napkin> ;)
16:17:26 <kilobyte> I mean, we're not moving at NetHack speeds, two builds per week make the version seem ancient :p
16:18:27 <kilobyte> well, whenever there is a real reason, players repeatedly ask about a build and one of us manually triggers it
16:18:31 * bhaak uses a continous integration build server, so he can always pinpoint the exact revision that broke and kick the lazy developer's ass
16:19:03 <Napkin> but.. 5 versions with just 1-2 player.. each using up 75mb is too much ;)
16:19:32 <bhaak> 75mb?
16:19:35 <RjY> strip the binaries then :P
16:19:57 <Napkin> these devs like -g builds
16:20:00 <RjY> on my system an unstripped crawl wizmode binary is like 50MB
16:20:40 <Napkin> binary is at around 68 - rest is version specific data + the saves
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16:21:02 <bhaak> compile it with -Os :-)
16:21:20 <Napkin> but yeah, kilobyte - glad you guys help triggering the builds when required :)
16:21:34 <kilobyte> btrfs or hardlinks
16:22:16 <Napkin> well, the 7mb of data isn't the big part
16:22:23 <Napkin> and i already share folders
16:22:40 <kilobyte> unstripped 73, stripped 11 (debug, amd64)
16:22:41 <bhaak> can you easily determine which binaries are no longer needed?
16:22:49 <kilobyte> yes
16:22:56 <kilobyte> it's already implemented
16:23:05 <RjY> make WIZARD=1 instead of make wizard
16:23:09 <Napkin> 14. Feb  06:54    a9a0233      32.0     82 in trunk,   3 in sprint,   0 in zotdef
16:23:12 <Napkin> 12. Feb  06:54    0fc178b      32.0      7 in trunk,   0 in sprint,   0 in zotdef
16:23:16 <Napkin> 8. Feb  10:40    4283068      32.0     15 in trunk,   0 in sprint,   1 in zotdef
16:23:20 <Napkin> i do that, RjY :)
16:23:31 <RjY> wow and you still get such huge binaries?
16:24:03 <kilobyte> RjY: they go down from 73 to 11 when you strip debug info away
16:24:03 <RjY> my WIZARD=1 binary is 7MB
16:24:05 <Napkin> nice make -j2 -C source GAME=${GAME}-${REVISION} GAME_MAIN=${GAME} MCHMOD=0755 MCHMOD_SAVEDIR=755 INSTALL_UGRP=dgl:crawl BUILD_PCRE=YesPlease USE_DGAMELAUNCH=YesPlease WIZARD=YesPlease STRIP=true DESTDIR=${DESTDIR} prefix= bin_prefix=/bin SAVEDIR=/${GAME}-${REVISION}/saves DATADIR=/${GAME}-${REVISION} USE_MERGE_BASE="${PRIMARY_BRANCH_REMOTE}" EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L="-g"
16:24:29 <Napkin> without -g debugging cores is half the fun, i was told ;)
16:24:30 <RjY> oh, -g
16:24:48 <RjY> that'd do it
16:26:16 <kilobyte> gcc-4.6 -O2 is 8.1MB unstripped, 7.3MB stripped (amd64)
16:27:28 <Napkin> kilobyte would use gcc-5.preunstablealphacandidate if possible ;)
16:27:54 <kilobyte> hey, 4.6 hasn't been even branched yet :p
16:28:01 <Napkin> :D
16:28:07 <kilobyte> I just wanted to compare with 4.4
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16:32:08 <kilobyte> doing an i386 build, but it will finish around year 3011
16:32:18 <Napkin> hehehe
16:32:35 <Napkin> masochist!
16:34:15 <RjY> still waiting for 4.5 in sid
16:36:44 <kilobyte> well, squeeze appeared like a week ago, all development took place in experimental and it only starts trickling back to unstable
16:39:44 <Napkin> wtf, sprint is so mean
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16:40:25 <kilobyte> omgwtf, gcc-4.6 actually manages to compile Crawl with -flto without crashing :)
16:40:52 <kilobyte> gcc-4.5 fails with an internal compiler error
16:41:28 * Napkin is not going to ask what -flto does.. nonono!
16:42:08 <Napkin> :-P
16:42:55 <kilobyte> it postpones all the actual compilation (minus parsing the source, etc) until link time, so it can optimize things between procedures
16:42:55 <RjY> isn't that the thing that tries to optimize the whole thing during linking
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16:43:30 <RjY> compile the whole source as one file
16:43:35 <kilobyte> without that, only inlined procedures can be optimized
16:43:38 <kilobyte> yeah
16:43:43 <RjY> probably takes an astronomical amount of memory
16:44:07 <kilobyte> around 1GB for Crawl
16:44:40 <kilobyte> somehow I'm not going to compile armel builds this way, at least without cross compiling :p
16:45:20 <kilobyte> i386 gcc-4.4 -O2: 7.7MB unstripped, 7.1MB stripped
16:46:06 <kilobyte> amd64 gcc-4.6 -O2 -flto: 7.0MB unstripped, 6.1MB stripped
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17:07:50 <Napkin> due? kilobyte? did you guys get my second posting to c-r-c?
17:08:08 <Napkin> SF shows some weirdness..
17:10:43 <Napkin> well, it'll have to wait until tomorrow
17:10:46 <Napkin> g'night o/
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17:30:14 <CIA-26> 03galehar * r2c821d9b7b59 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: Fix the paralysis death message placement.
17:30:25 <CIA-26> 03galehar * r4a345d3ac92e 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-tornado.cc: Fix tornado casting message when cast in flying form.
17:30:26 <CIA-26> 03galehar * r026dfa39b433 10/crawl-ref/source/food.h: whitespaces
17:30:26 <CIA-26> 03galehar * rd6d1cbfb79db 10/crawl-ref/source/teleport.h: Don't prevent blink from putting you in dangerous clouds.
17:30:27 <CIA-26> 03galehar * rbb8e66c71e39 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc spl-cast.cc): Fix silent spells making noise in crypt.
17:32:07 <Eronarn> <3 galehar
17:33:28 <RjY> that's a bit of a nerf to blink
17:33:44 <Eronarn> good
17:33:57 <TGWi> oh no a blink nerf
17:34:03 <TGWi> now blink will be still overpowered
17:34:07 <RjY> i'm just saying, yeesh
17:34:16 <Eronarn> blink could be like a L4 or 5 spell and people would still use it
17:34:31 <RjY> it's one of german joey's favourite tricks
17:35:33 <Eronarn> delicious goon tears
17:35:45 <galehar> Eronarn: you suggested it a long time ago, and it just stayed there in the back of my brain. I had to do it :)
17:36:25 <Eronarn> galehar: yeah i didn't want to push it, since some people thought it was a good feature
17:36:38 <Eronarn> i'd rather spend my time making new things
17:37:31 <galehar> That's the kind of change to takes much more time discussing it than coding it. So better to shoot now, and talk later.
17:38:03 <Eronarn> fix beam_frag while you're at it :D
17:38:04 <TGWi> imo engineer all development to spite goons
17:38:18 <Eronarn> TGWi: goons *hate* marine life
17:38:29 <TGWi> goons hate squares
17:38:40 <Eronarn> add marine isopods and blobfish to crawl
17:38:43 <TGWi> they like circles, especially jagged ones which represent the limit of your los
17:39:45 <Eronarn> TGWi: you can't fire sandblast diagonally :(
17:39:47 <Eronarn> it's so baddd
17:41:18 <galehar> Eronarn: what's beam_frag?
17:41:46 <TGWi> galehar: awful triple AC check
17:41:49 <Eronarn> galehar: the beam type used on sandblast and LRD
17:41:58 <Eronarn> it checks AC against them three times
17:42:16 <monqy> how much damage does lrd do, regardless of it checking AC so much?
17:42:17 <Eronarn> they've had their damage ramped up to compensate
17:42:29 <MarvinPA> (they haven't had their damage ramped up)
17:42:32 <Eronarn> however, this means that they are ultra damaging spells that are ultra resisted by AC... unless the target has no AC
17:42:37 <Eronarn> MarvinPA: sandblast has
17:42:42 <MarvinPA> that was just range
17:42:53 <MarvinPA> unless this was a while ago
17:43:04 <Eronarn> i don't feel like looking through the commit logs to check tbh
17:43:16 <Eronarn> though the removal of tmut also means it's easier to get it to higher power earlier
17:43:17 <galehar> I understand why several rolls, but maybe 2 is enough?
17:44:10 <MarvinPA> but yeah i looked into it a little, there's a best_roll function already, could use that and have it take the highest out of three AC rolls
17:44:32 <Eronarn> i prefer highest out of three to rolling multiple times and subtracting
17:44:33 <MarvinPA> just dropping it to two AC rolls also sounds reasonable and less effort
17:44:45 <elliptic> dropping it to two AC rolls was my suggestion, yeah
17:45:05 <elliptic> dropping to to highest out of three makes it hardly matter at all
17:45:47 <Eronarn> that's not true :| it matters, just less than right now (and it should probably come with a slight damage nerf)
17:46:49 <elliptic> currently average AC reduction is 3/2*AC for BEAM_FRAG, 1/2*AC normally
17:47:00 <elliptic> you are suggesting it be average 3/4*AC
17:47:55 <Eronarn> notably different distribution, though
17:48:07 <Eronarn> which fits with the idea of blasting someone with sand/rocks
17:48:37 <TGWi> irl when I blast someone with sand/rocks I have come to expect a notably different distribution
17:48:40 <Eronarn> their armor is going to protect very well, but all of the weak points in their armor are going to be exposed because it's a much wider attack
17:55:00 <Eronarn> (also fwiw do nothing <<<<< -2X < max(3) for me... though we should look at the damage rolls of stuff that uses beam_frag to make sure it's not too high damaging afterwards)
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17:57:29 <Ashenzari> autofight doesn't work with ranged weapons (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3459) by galehar
17:58:20 <monqy> not really a bug, but a limitation of autofight
17:58:28 <monqy> a Feature Request, you might say
17:59:21 <Eronarn> that doesn't make sense though, feature requests don't get posted on mantis??
17:59:39 <st_> ranged autofight: macro a key to ff
18:00:09 <monqy> well that won't always target the closest monster (like autofight does)
18:00:22 <st_> pretty sure it does
18:00:44 <monqy> I mean it'll focus on a single monster even if it's fleeing and others are hitting you
18:00:55 <monqy> it just has to be the closest when you start firing
18:00:59 <monqy> as far as I know
18:02:24 <upsy> yes
18:06:01 <Eronarn> manticore: buff fire speed to 10 (still move/melee 7); L3 summ or so; smite targeted; disappears if it gets hit in melee or runs out of spikes
18:06:11 <Eronarn> does this sound like a spell that is fun / usable / you would use
18:07:32 <Ashenzari> Ghouls can cast Passwall: inconsistent with mummies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3460) by GameKnut
18:08:11 <st_> why use manticores? it sounds like "summon turret"
18:09:03 <casmith789> (oklob)
18:09:04 <MarvinPA> sounds cool conceptually but yeah, doesn't necessarily need to be manticores (especially since we already have loads of "summon monster x" spells)
18:09:11 <Excedrin> summon deep elf master archer
18:09:18 <casmith789> archer statue
18:09:36 <Eronarn> MarvinPA: manticores are intelligent non-evil creatures
18:09:43 <Eronarn> that don't use poison
18:09:57 <Eronarn> (i only found this out because i killed one on zin and couldn't eat it)
18:10:11 <monqy> well they have people heads don't they
18:10:18 <Eronarn> yes but so do harpies
18:10:37 <monqy> how peculiar
18:10:56 <Eronarn> also st_: nothing wrong with summon turret! as long as it makes an interesting turret
18:10:57 <MarvinPA> i don't see how that makes them a more interesting thing to summon, particularly :P
18:10:57 <Mu_> added to sexism in crawl
18:11:22 <Eronarn> MarvinPA: well it doesn't make them more interesting but summ already has a lot more evil spells than many schools
18:11:43 <MarvinPA> summon non-living turret wouldn't be evil either! :P
18:12:06 <Eronarn> though i don't think they're *un*interesting mind you, i think they would be a perfectly adequate moderately interesting low level spell
18:12:31 <MarvinPA> also then yred could dislike it because he dislikes non-living stuff (why??????)
18:13:47 <Eronarn> archer statue might be okay too though (and definitely only one of the two)
18:14:33 <Eronarn> though i do kind of like the idea of a "Statue Gallery" spell
18:15:09 <Eronarn> summons, say, 3-7 random statues (archer and lasher exist right now but there could be some mage-y ones or what have you)
18:16:17 <MarvinPA> well, there's only "statue" really, archer and lasher and warrior and wizard are all defined by vaults
18:16:41 <Eronarn> yes i know
18:17:10 <Eronarn> (there are warrior / wizard statues already? where?)
18:17:37 <MarvinPA> there's a little vault with a small corridor where warrior statues hit you with axes
18:17:50 <MarvinPA> then wizard statues cast freezing cloud and imb at you in a loot room
18:17:50 <Eronarn> oh
18:17:53 <MarvinPA> @??wizard statue
18:17:53 <Gretell> wizard statue (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living, !sil, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 602 | Sp: crystal spear (3d25), mystic blast (3d13), slow, stone arrow (3d14).
18:17:55 <Eronarn> that sounds horrible
18:18:17 <MarvinPA> it's sort of cool, the warrior statues are a pain though
18:18:28 <MarvinPA> step into their sight, get hit, damage one, step back and heal
18:18:29 <RjY> that's a good vault, i like that one
18:18:32 <MarvinPA> repeat
18:19:01 <Eronarn> hmm i wonder...
18:19:02 <MarvinPA> otherwise you'd be able to just kill them from afar though so yeah, it's cool
18:19:16 <Eronarn> what about a spell that summons a bunch of immobile statues and also makes you immobile for the duration
18:32:13 <CIA-26> 03kilobyte * rcccaef656fb2 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: Let -flto=jobserver do parallel compilation.
19:33:40 <monqy> xom burst a secret door open and it didn't update the los stuff
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21:40:03 <Gretell> Excedrin (L15 DSVM) ASSERT(you.see_cell(target())) in 'directn.cc' at line 1176 failed. (Vault:2)
21:42:15 <Excedrin> that's the mimic bug I reported and someone marked closed
21:42:40 <Excedrin> idk if cdo is maybe just running an older build
21:43:35 <Excedrin> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3424
21:44:09 <Excedrin> it says fixed in trunk on 2011-02-14
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23:38:21 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * rde22d47dcb79 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Rework Transmutations books
23:38:25 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * rd56e90d92889 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h spl-book.cc spl-cast.cc spl-data.h tilepick.cc): Remove Alter Self
23:38:26 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * r4cb67e3270e4 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Don't let Mummies cast Sublimation, do let them cast Passwall
23:38:26 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * rbeeee4ed2f36 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Don't reduce Sif penance for miscasts
23:38:27 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * r62d0d4cf9227 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Give shrapnel 2x AC reduction instead of 3x
23:38:28 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * re389e1b59dfe 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Boost Mummy base MR
23:41:56 <Eronarn> goooo MarvinPA
23:48:14 <CIA-26> 03MarvinPA * rfe0f9defb0c5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-book.cc spl-other.cc): Do allow Mummies to cast Sublimation, just not on themselves
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