00:14:09 -!- TGWi is now known as monquy 00:14:43 -!- monquy is now known as TGWi 00:17:51 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:22 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:17 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:02 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:55:49 moin 01:57:06 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:57 -!- evilmike has quit [] 02:17:24 -!- Vandal has quit [] 02:28:50 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:04 hi 02:36:27 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:06 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:47:19 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:53 -!- Dr_bhaak is now known as bhaak 02:58:48 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:35:06 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:32 !tell MarvinPA I personally would prefer not removing Halflings. I have not necessarily been vocal about this recently however. 03:35:33 due: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 03:40:35 due: at least make up for this with pink demon horses 03:41:09 it's strange all hell knights walk on foot, even though the word "knight" doesnm't mean "fighter" 03:53:05 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:07:25 kilobyte: indeed 04:07:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:11:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:38 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:12 hi dpeg 04:39:46 Hi due! 04:40:52 how is depg? 04:45:06 I am fine :) 04:45:20 Guess I need to flesh out another 0.8 mail. 04:46:17 need moar hexes, and Ash wrath 04:46:47 and to replace Ash xp boost with something else 04:47:10 elliptic wrote me twice on the troves (thanks mate!), so we will cover that for release 04:47:19 he even said he'd write a patch <3 04:47:59 maybe we should implement partial resist to make hexes more viable in the end game 04:48:38 sure, but only if there's a good enough replacement. The core idea of slot-specific boosts isn't bad, but the specific proposal you wrote before is not that hot (combat boosts from a detached god of knowledge). 04:48:56 I'm pondering that Possession spell, but it might cause a number of bugs 04:49:43 a very viable and trivial to code idea is Darkness, but that makes nightstalker less unique 04:51:37 and that Conj/Hex distracting+exploding ball with coloured lights is just sickly good... it has the downside of being easily castable by conjurers, though 04:53:30 remove the Conj component, make it Air 04:53:56 dpeg: Make it a cloud? ;) 04:54:07 * dpeg slaps due with a clout. 04:54:23 kilobyte: I understand what you mean regarding the combat boosts, but they can always be reflavoured as "You saw this coming via Ashenzari." 04:55:24 as in, Forescry? 04:55:48 same flavour, yes 05:08:17 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:26 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:34 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:33 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:45:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:50 03kilobyte * r9b4c591ee801 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Fix Antaeus getting an amphibiousness speed boost. 06:00:54 03kilobyte * r023b13316f60 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/monspell.txt ghost.cc mon-cast.cc spl-data.h): Make Flame Tongue a monster spell. 06:01:08 03kilobyte * r61eb9ff968e2 10/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc: Let player ghosts cast Dance Party, while it lasts. 06:14:28 -!- CIA-51 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:21:22 -!- CIA-37 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:59 kilobyte: giants being able to traverse deep water is a nice idea and makes sense, and would put a stop to dodging trog wrath by sitting in the middle of a lake with lev boots on 06:43:42 RjY: yeah, dolorous coded that 06:43:55 lemme check if they can actually spawn there, though 06:44:18 (after I finish this vault where I pick on due's bats :p) 06:45:29 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:27 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:41 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:12:50 dammit, redefining monsters really suck 07:13:11 1. when there's more than one, names are ignored 07:13:15 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:28 2. even if corpses work, chunks use the old name 07:13:43 3. skeletons/spectrals/etc break when renamed, too 07:13:49 felirx: meow? 07:15:26 kilobyte, redefining, you mean in vaults? 07:17:32 internets, it does not work 07:26:09 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:26 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:22 multiples getting the old name is really annoying 07:47:33 items in stats area and % screen are displayed with the glyph colour. Is it useful? Would you mind if it were change to match the inventory colour? 07:58:44 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:20 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:17 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:06 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:36 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:45 -!- st_ has quit [] 08:52:51 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:53 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:04:39 galehar: around? 09:05:23 yes 09:06:36 I'm fine with changing colours in %. 09:06:48 Not sure if inventory colour is best, but hey. 09:07:13 I still believe that using white for freezing weapons, red for flaming ones etc. would make it easier to read. 09:08:24 yeah why not 09:08:52 I think using the same colour or an item in all menus would make it easier. 09:09:06 ah cool, i just replied to that on the forums 09:09:07 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:09:11 !messages 09:09:11 (1/1) due said (5h 33m 39s ago): I personally would prefer not removing Halflings. I have not necessarily been vocal about this recently however. 09:09:36 me too. I like halflings and the recent changes you did :) 09:10:24 is there a reason for blocking blink through trees? 09:11:46 hm 09:11:58 not sure, i suppose you can blink through statues but not translucent walls 09:12:13 and trees are a bit like a cross between the two :P 09:12:39 yes, good point 09:12:59 there are some vaults that rely on you getting some way of destroying trees 09:16:28 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:49 because when you try to blink through trees, you're told that you can't blink through transparent walls 09:18:13 wekk, that should say "cannot blink through trees" 09:18:35 crystal trees would still make it hard to see through :p 09:19:17 you get similar messages when you try to cast some spells at trees, come to think of it 09:19:27 "you can't place clouds on a wall" when you target a tree 09:21:07 can't blame legacy code here. I added that messages a few days ago :) 09:21:12 no vaults I know of rely on trees being unblinkable past 09:22:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:16 the vehumet altar surrounded by trees? 09:23:33 i mean, it wouldn't break the vault if you could blink through them, but it's cool to have an altar vault that's inaccessible in a different way to just "surrounded by deep water/lava" 09:24:12 I agree. 09:39:36 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:42:09 hmm... i was going to update the manual for the changes to draconians, but the wiki manual page has confused me 09:42:23 there seem to be a lot of changes there that aren't in the trunk manual 09:43:10 -!- blackflare has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:02 should i update the trunk manual to match the wiki one? 09:44:32 Has that ever been done? 09:45:04 i don't think so actually, the trunk manual has no mention of the changed stat death behaviour 09:45:35 there's a few cases where evktalo's updated the wiki manual to match trunk commits, but nothing the other way round as far as i can tell 09:47:48 So pushing the wiki manual into trunk would be good, yes. 09:48:16 As I mentioned in the 0.8 email (which you didn't get?), I'll have to reread the manual once more anyway... there have been a number of changes. 09:49:11 ah ok, i don't think i did get it 10:13:08 MarvinPA: got it now? 10:13:17 aha, yep 10:13:21 thanks :) 10:23:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:27:26 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:38 puh, not bad.. 28 users, load average: 0.60, 0.47, 0.43 10:29:17 considering it's a 4core cpu with 2.4ghz 10:29:22 Napkin: hi! 10:29:29 moin dpeg :) 10:29:48 did you get my mail? 10:30:09 Tiamat's new tiles don't show weapons (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3408) by minmay 10:30:21 which mail? 10:30:38 because of the proboards forum 10:30:44 ah, yes 10:30:49 good, good 10:30:56 that one was great! 10:31:25 took that Alex guy a while to reply, but now it's one forum less ;) 10:31:46 -1 :) 10:43:53 03MarvinPA * rdc09069ab701 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.txt: Lots of manual updates from the wiki 10:44:33 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:37 hah, and i forgot completely about updating the draconian entry 10:54:29 MarvinPA: awesome, many thanks! 10:54:36 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:42 Tehre will be more manual updates to come. 10:54:49 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:53 hm 10:55:18 yeah, i'm sure there's lots i missed but the wiki and trunk should be synced up now at least :) 10:55:47 the important point is that changes should go to the wiki... I think we have adhered to that 10:57:26 it'd be nice to have proof-reading of all the documentation as a part of the release prodecure :P 10:58:10 Zaba: impossible task :) 10:58:17 That'd require literate developers. 10:58:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:13 proof-reading not as in checking grammar, but checking relevance to the real world :P 10:59:41 As greensnark never tires of pointing out: nobody reads the manual. 11:00:32 I do! 11:00:45 ais523: so do I, but we're the last two who do so. 11:01:06 OTOH, I don't normally read it repeatedly whenever it gets amended 11:01:47 dpeg, screw the manual, let's at least check level design docs ;p 11:02:22 ais523: nobody does that, don't worry :) 11:02:49 Zaba: as a recent forum thread showed, level design documents aren't read either. And here I would expect better coverage than with the manual. 11:03:33 what are the level design documents? I think I didn't read them because I didn't know of their existence 11:04:29 docs/develop/level/*txt 11:04:46 might be a bit buried, but is only of use for those who want to create vaults 11:04:48 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:05:42 oh, I think I did read those 11:05:47 just didn't know their names 11:05:56 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:09 how is it even possible to make vaults without reading them? just copying other vaults? 11:06:15 yeah 11:06:17 copypasta 11:06:23 generally a bad idea 11:06:54 indeed 11:07:09 and something which Crawl was presumably full of, and the current developers are getting rid of as they find it? 11:07:50 I haven't seen any vaults that were made by really dumb copying and pasting 11:07:56 ais523: it is quite easy: find some nice looking vault, throw away all the garbage, replace MONS and KMONS specifications with "oklob plant", and voila, done! 11:08:00 but some minor things were repeated without much thinking 11:08:04 dpeg: haha 11:08:23 for example, mini_float 11:08:34 are oklob saplings used in regular Crawl, btw? they seem the sort of thing vault designers would likely love, given their love for regular oklobs 11:08:55 and I'm sure some (N)SUBST/SHUFFLE constructs were copied and adapted without deep understanding :P 11:09:37 Zaba: do you understand why some people have a hard time grasping them? The docs are full with examples... 11:09:50 could replace the temple oklob entry with an oklob sapling 11:09:53 or would that be too kind? :P 11:10:15 dpeg, I had a hard time grasping them, but I simply read the examples until I finally understood them 11:10:37 dpeg, I guess not everybody is willing to spend time doing that :P 11:11:22 my biased opinion is that at this point, any "improvement" to documentation would only make it worse and people just need to read slower :P 11:11:28 well, it is clearly not trivial, but complaining about how hard it is without reading documentation is ... not so hot :) 11:11:42 Zaba: s/slower// 11:12:01 "You can apply special rules to a portal vault, like enforcing maprot." 11:12:05 wasn't maprot removed? 11:12:22 mostly, but not completely (on purpose) 11:12:25 i just removed it as a divinations miscast effect, the code is still there 11:12:31 ah, fair enough 11:12:34 the sheer volume of level design docs makes checking its accuracy seem like a very hard task 11:12:36 labyrinths still have it, a level like Maud's could get it 11:12:39 overwhelming, and such 11:12:50 oh, it's fine for labs because the level itself shifts too 11:12:51 Zaba: I have split up the thing at least 11:12:53 and making changes that don't disrupt its flow can sometimes be hard, too 11:13:06 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:08 ais523: yes, was the other way around though: we wanted to keep the maprot, so we added shifting 11:13:36 btw, it's worth mentioning that in the discussion about screenshotting every turn, I actually have and use a program that does that for me when playing Crawl 11:13:41 although I haven't referred to earlier ones yet 11:13:45 (it's been used more in NetHack) 11:13:52 mostly it's so that I have my game recorded, though 11:14:02 would it be inapropiate to ask some questions about changing the code for my own preferences in here? 11:14:24 but when I'm wondering in NetHack "hmm, did I get cold resistance?" or whatever, I can't just press A like in Crawl so I run a search on old message over the entire game's ttyrec 11:14:28 UbAh: you can start asking 11:14:54 ais523: Nethack would benefit a lot from something like Crawl's % and Ctrl-O screens 11:15:08 Tell that bhaak :) 11:15:19 to change demonspawn mutations I would have to edit the source and recompile or do we have a settings file the handles that behavior? 11:15:33 UnNetHack already has a control-O that does something similar (#overview); AceHack also has a "known intrinsics" setting which works like %, except that it doesn't take identified items into account 11:15:36 ais523: screenshotting every turn? what about recording a ttyrec instead? i hacked ipbt to do a screenshot for every ttyrec frame... 11:15:50 paxed: it's jettyplay streaming 11:15:54 UbAh, you'd have to change the code, yes 11:16:02 I record a ttyrec, and jettyplay converts that into a sequence of screenshots in-memory 11:16:03 ais523: ah. well... 11:16:06 damn I was afraid of that 11:16:09 while I'm playing 11:16:40 do we have that in one place or do I have to search through all the files? 11:16:42 UbAh, did you look at the code yet? 11:16:43 if you open a ttyrec in jettyplay while it's being recorded, and the ttyrec's on your local computer, it detects what's happening and keeps updating at the nd 11:17:21 I am a stumbling idiot when it comes to coding so it may take me a while to find 11:18:32 03MarvinPA * r2caef83051b5 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.txt: Update draconian manual entry 11:19:19 UbAh, what exactly do you want to change and why? 11:20:31 well for zot defence I was goign to disable the shadows mutation 11:21:11 and I may reduce the other physical mutations 11:21:31 but mainly to remove pointless mutations in zot defence when I play that 11:21:57 if you consider it a flaw, maybe you should file a bug or something 11:22:10 though maybe zot defence is not supposed to mess with game mechanics like that 11:22:31 I doubt anyone else would be bothered by it, why clutter your bug DB up with my single posting 11:23:02 ... 11:23:08 if everybody thought like that, we'd never fix any problems :P 11:23:17 yea I think if I disabled it, it would be for all types of games 11:23:22 which I can live with 11:23:37 I could complile two different versions for my own use 11:23:57 well I dont even think its a problem just a personal pet peave 11:24:12 also could you make me stop dieing so much when I play drunk? 11:24:58 besides doing this might help me suck a bit less when I am looking at code 11:27:12 back later 11:28:12 UbAh, after you look at the code, it might seem to you that it is easier to cope with the useless mutations ;P 11:28:37 looking at the mutation files now 11:29:02 yea anything beyond scripts for me is a bit like reading ELUA's 11:29:12 but I can muddle through 11:30:30 eulas are easy 11:30:51 compared to the older parts of crawl's code, anyway 11:31:05 hehe 11:31:31 the older parts of Crawl's code have made me feel physically ill before now 11:32:01 well I'll give it a shot, I'll only break my game no one elses. Anyway if you could tell me if there are any other files besides the ones labled mutation I should be reading that would be sweet 11:32:31 I have the benifit of not knowing good code from bad so I should be able to get by :-) 11:33:12 if you start reading crawl's code, you'll learn to tell them apart very quickly 11:33:23 if you're just wanting to disable certain DS muts then that's all in mutation.cc 11:33:30 cool 11:33:35 thanks marv 11:42:10 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:30 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:08 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:50:22 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:43 03dolorous * rcafb13c46e86 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc transform.cc): Add missing checks for giant-sized-or-greater players in water. 12:45:55 Orcish Mines not connected to an exit (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3409) by Tenaya 12:46:28 there should still be escape hatches 12:51:25 That's 0.8 fix worthy. 12:52:36 I'm not even sure whether it still occurs in 0.8 12:52:49 hell, I'm not even sure whether there were any changes that could fix it or break it further :P 12:53:10 all I know is that there still should be escape hatches downwards :P 12:53:16 or the level'd be vetoed 12:53:44 at least, that's what should be true for 0.8 12:54:22 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:44 dpeg, we should really release more often 12:56:03 I mean, 0.7 was so long ago. I can't do much with a 0.7 save. I can't tell much about 0.7 code. But bugs are reported against it. 12:56:56 Zaba: you mean releasing more often than twice a year? 12:57:13 It is always a lot of effort to set up a release... 12:57:25 0.8 is going to be so good when it comes out though, after 0.8 no-one'll need to switch 12:57:33 yes, so the version that players play and the version that developers work with don't get too different 12:57:56 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:28 Zaba: it's hard to do! At least we have CDO, this helps a lot with bug free(r) releases 12:58:49 it's funny how players are fine with playing the latest version from git, though. Makes me wonder how useful releasing is at all :P 12:59:09 releasing is extremely useful :) 12:59:30 I'd guess that less than 1% of our player base can (or want to) compile. 13:00:56 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:32 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51:16 Crash when going down to (generating?) new level (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3410) by dolorous 14:05:28 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:13 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:14:14 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:02 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:15 -!- ais523 has quit [] 14:26:54 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:36 dpeg: daily trunk binaries <3 14:36:41 -!- MarvinPA|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:06 TGWi: we had nightlies for quite a while 14:37:24 don't we still? not that I've downloaded one in a while 14:37:30 cdo is also great 14:37:53 cdo is much better :) 14:38:07 although not for tilists, gotta admit that 14:38:19 how up-to-date is CDO generally? does it update every revision? every day? 14:38:33 ??cdo 14:38:34 cdo[1/4]: Crawl server (also running development versions), located in Germany, crawl.develz.org, telnet port 345 or ssh port 22, ssh-username: crawl, ssh-key necessary: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key (openssh) or http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key.ppk (putty) 14:38:38 ??cdo[2] 14:38:38 cdo[2/4]: Dump files and other stuff are available on http://crawl.develz.org. 14:38:41 ??cdo[3] 14:38:41 cdo[3/4]: If you experience lag try this: enable compression in ssh/putty - enable option use_fake_player_cursor = true - for more see http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 14:38:43 ??cdo[4] 14:38:43 cdo[4/4]: wget http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key; chmod 400 cao_key; ssh -i cao_key crawl@crawl.develz.org 14:38:49 mondays and fridays, or whenever someone wants to update it manually 14:38:49 ok, twice a week :) 14:38:50 I think 14:38:51 i think it updates every week 14:38:55 and yeah, that 14:39:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:39:18 -!- MarvinPA|2 is now known as MarvinPA 14:40:26 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:36 Speech used in portal vaults does not work when portals are accessed from certain branches (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3411) by Mu 14:52:09 if somebody can fix this bug i'll prolly kiss them 14:52:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:55:27 poor Mu 14:55:45 Mu_: the bug has nothing to do with CAO/CDO? 14:55:49 nope! 14:55:57 turns out it was the branch the portal spawned in 14:56:05 ah, mean 14:56:37 your bug report is moving 14:56:40 haha 14:59:08 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:57 Hi galehar! 15:14:33 hi 15:17:41 Is the change of Gl shield to buckler already in trunk? 15:18:10 yes 15:18:25 cool 15:20:40 -!- OG17 has quit [] 15:28:07 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:59 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:49 Manticores across deep water don't halt autotravel (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3412) by minmay 15:32:11 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:08 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:06 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:38 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:21 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: bye] 16:26:17 -!- TGWi1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:21 -!- TGWi1 is now known as TGWiglaf 16:29:38 -!- TGWi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:07 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:12 -!- Adeon is now known as Sayo 17:17:54 people always wanting to use plate mail is pretty much a nonexistent issue 17:18:35 my last win was a stabber who wore ring mail until zot 17:26:12 -!- TGWiglaf is now known as TGWi 17:29:08 -!- Sayo is now known as Adeon 17:30:06 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:39 punpun: good job, now you just need to do the astral plane 17:35:11 oops wrong channel 17:36:38 fun fact: demon whip is better than GSC always 17:36:41 in terms of damage alone 17:37:55 what 17:38:38 why? 17:38:55 they're about the same against AC I guess 17:39:15 you can get 18 speed down to 7, even 20 is ok 17:39:19 this is assuming 27 skills and no slaying though 17:40:01 you'd need a crapload of slaying to get 12/5 to the same level as 22/7 17:40:37 is GSC 20/20 in 0.7 17:41:15 also you'd need 4 slaying 17:42:01 july 2009, which is ancient 17:42:30 also, demon whips were improved in the very same commit 17:42:45 oh of course 17:45:57 also demon tridents are way better than bardiches but I don't think this surprises anyone 17:47:25 i ascended my most recent win with a glaive 17:47:52 glaives are probably worse than tridents 17:48:17 ... 17:48:20 you don't know what you're talking about tbh 17:48:39 they do require far more skill, but are much better in the end 17:48:40 actual data tbh 17:48:44 even against AC 0 17:49:16 not the glaive thing, I just hate glaives 17:49:19 bardiches are shit though 17:50:17 bardiches need 26 skill which you won't get soon enough, but for GSC, 22 is what any dedicated melee will have well before a chance to reliably obtain a demon whip 17:50:35 s/melee/meleer/ 17:51:03 polearms are probably my favourite weapontype 17:51:35 (except Trog, but with Trog, you _are_ a dedicated meleer too) 17:51:48 be nice if they could still get speed but they seem pretty solid and they're very easy to find upgrades for at each stage of the game 17:51:49 pla gets some credit for having the most comically bad weapon in crawl 17:51:58 polearms should have innate reaching 17:52:00 scythes 4 lyf 17:52:07 improving polearms would be a good idea 17:52:33 at the very least, bardiches shouldn't be a lot worse than exec axes 17:53:17 4.1 has an EV boost for polearms, seemed fairly good when I tried some MfGl 17:53:33 the starting trident gave +4 EV 17:53:53 starting tridents are not the weakest link 17:54:01 i think bardiches are better compared to great maces and battleaxes tbh 17:54:23 and how rare are exec axes 17:54:32 depends whether you're a kobold 17:54:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:29 st_: agree 17:57:00 Mu_: you can count on a great mace or a battleaxe, usually before Orc entrance. Bardiches on the other hand are a "rare" weapon -- unlike exec axes, they spawn on some monsters, but are still not easily obtainable. 17:57:18 nah you're all but guaranteed one off the vault guards in vaults 17:57:41 V:8 17:58:04 I do V:8 before the orc entrance 17:58:13 I don't know about your weird branch order though 17:58:39 I've had good experiences with weapon acquirement for getting bardiches/exec axes 17:59:29 there is actually a guaranteed exec axe in the game :p 18:00:03 well if you really wanted one you could pull a few guards from 8 without much trouble, and you're not that unlikely to find one before then given the number of orc knights around. probably a few in baileys now too. 18:00:12 kilobyte: pan scum until you get the pan surprise vault? 18:00:14 just fully explore all Pan levels, that vault will turn up sooner or later 18:00:17 monqy: yeah :p 18:01:55 of course, if you can fully explore 30+ pan levels, there's not much you can use that axe for 18:02:24 with melee being worthless in Zigs 18:02:39 I created a mf with the specific aim of going 2H and just gave up when I didn't get a bardiche in v:8 :) 18:03:30 kilobyte: have you ever tried melee in zigs? you can get at least halfway through with relative ease 18:03:32 i don't think i've ever lacked for a bardiche, it never even occured to me they're supposed to be rare 18:03:36 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:52 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:20 casmith789: one in 25 vault guards and orc knights 18:04:59 not on dracs? I had a few bardiches in zot my last game 18:05:26 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:27 drac knights 18:05:45 well I did find one in the end but by then I'd decided to go 1H with a demon trident as normal because it was getting ridiculous 18:06:28 full list: orc warlord, Saint Roka, orc knight, Urug, Jozef, vault guard, vampire knight, drac knight, Jory -- 1/25 chance each 18:06:49 i remember that trog never gifted me a bardiche on my KeBe though, had to use a floor one. trog hardly seems to gift them. 18:07:22 in my last game, I met 14 vault guards, 20 orc knights (including Zig) 18:08:45 Mu_: which version? In the past, "rare" items had almost no chance, and there was a version where due to a bug the chance was exactly 0. 18:09:21 0.5.1 :P 18:09:47 i did a hogl the other day and only got one bardiche gift too though, still kinda low 18:10:05 nowadays divine acquirement has the same base chance, but reroll on already seen types makes it effectively more likely, at least if you're content with one 18:10:29 there are two rerolls: one for type, one for brand 18:11:47 but he used the glaive anyway because it was vampiric 18:34:45 -!- timecircuits_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:26 -!- timecircuits has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:26 -!- timecircuits_ is now known as timecircuits 18:37:36 can any of you push to SF? 18:38:10 Can't exec "/usr/sbin/sendmail": No such file or directory at ./hooks/crawl-ref-cia line 283. 18:38:13 Cannot execute /usr/sbin/sendmail : 0 at ./hooks/crawl-ref-cia line 283. 18:38:16 error: hook declined to update refs/heads/master 18:38:18 To ssh://castamir@crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref ! [remote rejected] master -> master (hook declined) 18:41:38 huh yeah, doesn't work for me either 18:43:34 "oops". 18:43:42 That's definitely a bug. 18:43:53 SSH in and remove the cia hook temporarily? 18:45:16 sounds like a sourceforge problem (again) 18:46:02 it always is 18:46:17 sourceforge is a problem 18:58:21 -!- UbAh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:09 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:08 vampire mosquitos are undead, but leave edible corpses, is this intentional 19:34:26 mosquitos leave edible corpses 19:34:28 is this intentional 19:35:09 can you save the glib garbage for ##crawl, nothing else undead leaves a brown corpse. 19:35:29 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:08 I'm serious, mosquitos should not drop corpses 19:36:34 "chunks of mosquito flesh" is kind of a silly concept, like butterflies used to have (not sure if they lost their corpses) 19:37:45 beyond that I don't think brown corpses for mosquitos are a problem 19:38:12 iirc the only other undead with corpses are n-glyphs which are specifically very rotting 19:39:14 seems strange to get edible meat off something undead to me 19:42:36 undead stuff should be inedible except to ghouls 19:45:28 hell hounds being good eating (not even contaminated) is strange too 19:45:40 yeah agreed 19:45:47 wasn't that added so hell would actually have corpses? 19:46:03 hell cas corpses 19:46:19 dragons, hell knights 19:46:19 well, more corpses 19:46:29 giants too 19:46:31 hell doesn't need corpses 19:47:19 I just figured that's the reason why hell hounds were made to drop corpses 19:47:35 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:40 I recall it being that too 19:47:45 I think they were made to drop corpses because someone thought it was strange for them to disappear on death 19:48:16 oh 19:48:17 but they shouldn't be good eating the way they are... make them poisonous or contaminated or both 19:53:17 make all demons HCL 20:01:50 just because it is undead doesn't mean it doesn't have a corpse 20:01:53 you can't raise them again 20:02:59 due: sure 20:03:24 but just because it has a corpse doesn't mean the corpse should be good to eat 20:04:00 That's a mistake on my part... 20:10:26 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:41:40 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:34 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:32 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:55:49 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:49 -!- timecircuits has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:25 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:24 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:41 -!- evilmike has quit [] 23:17:13 -!- Twinge has quit [] 23:35:06 -!- timecircuits_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:36 -!- timecircuits has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:36 -!- timecircuits_ is now known as timecircuits 23:38:20 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5133-gcafb13c