00:36:40 -!- stephen_f has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:38:46 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:56 -!- Gnash has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:41 -!- evilmike has quit [] 00:46:14 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:56:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:53 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:01 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:42 congratulations marvin, very much deserved. why, i just said the other day, why isn't marvin a developer yet. was likely just coincidence, though. 01:59:01 -!- Celentes has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:06 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:51 -!- Gnash has quit [] 02:16:13 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:17:40 -!- Guest39600 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:30:48 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:42 hi folks 03:21:13 Two emails? 03:21:16 That's difficult to believe :o 03:51:47 -!- Gnash has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:20 -!- Gnash has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:56 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:34:09 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:20 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:57:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:06:07 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:10 moin 05:25:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:58 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:23 cheers 05:27:36 !seen MakMorn 05:27:36 I last saw MakMorn at Sat Jan 29 01:26:45 2011 UTC (6d 10h 51s ago) saying the -4 helmet of Virtue {rF+ Int+2 SInv Stlth-- Curse} on ##crawl. 05:27:41 !seen MarvinPA 05:27:41 I last saw MarvinPA at Fri Feb 4 06:03:40 2011 UTC (5h 24m 1s ago) saying tornado on ##crawl. 05:32:58 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:02 moin dpeg 05:33:19 Hi! 05:41:57 -!- Zao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:09 -!- Zao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:35 moin moin 05:52:02 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:25 how about ordering the skill menu like: Skill, Apt, Progr, Lvl? 05:58:26 My eyes always jump to the beginning (skill name) and end (apt) of a line and then need to search in the middle for the info i'm looking for (Lvl). 05:59:57 unless people are more interested in Apt than in Lvl when looking at the skills, i think changing the order would make sense 06:05:48 snooker! 06:13:58 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:30 Hints mode: You have picked up some food ('e'). You can eat it by typing % (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3389) by JoachimSchipper 06:19:32 Tutorial: "Other than for other monsters, with undead it is..." (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3390) by JoachimSchipper 06:20:35 -!- ais523_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:39:33 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:03 03galehar * r80fa0472212e 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-clouds.cc: Fix cloud spells range (again). 06:45:06 03galehar * r120f289ee809 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hints.cc hints.h skills2.cc): More verbose skill menu help for tutorial/hint. 06:47:05 hey galehar? 07:05:38 yep? 07:10:24 Since yesterday, apt is optional (disabled in tutorial and hint mode). So might be better to keep it at the end 07:10:56 besides, apt is in red, so your eyes shouldn't have to strain too much to find it ;) 07:24:28 i always do :) 07:25:03 but ok, i get the reason 07:25:55 btw, since you are editing anyways, could you adjust the keyboard shortcut legend below to be like in the shops? 07:27:05 [key(s):function] -> [key(s)] function 07:32:01 I'd rather edit the other way around 07:32:15 i like the skill menu way better because it makes it look like a button 07:32:23 and it behave like a button in tiles 07:33:29 I'm making a simple roguelike; does anyone know of a good resource on possible speed systems, advantages/disadvantages? 07:35:00 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:50:09 hmm... i found "[a] function" nicer than "[a:function ]" 07:50:21 but ok 07:54:55 well, you may be right 07:54:58 let me try it 07:57:30 Consistency between menus is completely lacking: Ctrl-P, \, i, m, ?? etc. all explain current commands in different places and styles 08:00:49 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:51 an opinion on which one is the better? 08:01:51 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:07 the "looks and behaves as a button" reason is good. does that mean you actually click it? 08:05:20 galehar: of the various modes? 08:07:06 they're just all so different 08:08:40 maybe a wiki page? 08:09:02 Napkin: yes, you can click 'em in tiles. Or use the letter as in console. Both work. At the very least, getting rid of the trailing spaces might help. 08:09:03 there might be more reasons to decide on something than just "like best"? 08:10:00 for clicking reasons, i would have to admin that [key: function] would be better, because there is more to hit when clicking? 08:10:18 (note the space behind "key:", galehar ;)) 08:10:26 *have to admit 08:10:32 dpeg: because unifying means we first have to choose one. 08:11:18 Napkin: even with your proposal, the text can be clickable too. 08:12:55 When I get the time, I'll make a list of the various screens on the wiki. 08:15:00 at some point, I'll turn them all into clickable buttons 08:15:13 click'em all! 08:15:26 :) 08:19:04 \o/ 08:19:39 Johann's busy playing Chess, so I'll start it right now. 08:29:01 don't forget the ones in the item description (actions from the inventory) 08:31:08 did you teach him standard chess or "dpeg's design improved Chess Stone Soup"? 08:31:49 Unfortunately, he is playing Chess rather than Go. 08:31:58 Seven years down the drain :( 08:34:10 don't despair. He'll might come around. I can imagine that Chess is more appealing for kids than Go but later they might enjoy Go, too. Like with NetHack and Crawl :) 08:35:21 hehe 08:43:03 start go at 6 08:43:07 make a career out of it 08:43:24 go is a little abstract, really; also less competed in UK schools 08:44:41 felirx: 6 is too late 08:46:00 did you play Go with his mother while she was pregnant? 08:47:00 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:45 of course 08:48:06 then I don't know what you've done wrong 08:48:06 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:04 okay, I compiled what I could 08:52:29 comments welcome 08:52:37 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:help_lines 08:53:14 four different styles or so :) 08:54:19 daughter now 08:59:14 ooh, I'd love it for those to be consistent 08:59:44 merely detecting a menu via screen-scraping is basically impossible with the current code 09:22:54 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:03 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:41 dpeg: hey 09:33:39 i think i have git set up with my SF account properly now :) 09:37:08 time for your first commit! 09:37:28 You have quite a backlog on Mantis to process... 09:38:04 heh 09:38:15 okay i guess i'll see if this actually works... 09:39:18 03MarvinPA * r31592c28e8a2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-transloc.cc terrain.cc terrain.h): Don't destroy the orb by apporting it into deep water/lava 09:42:32 hmm. I didn't get any mail 09:43:41 ah, apparently the mail needs moderator approval first 09:45:08 oh yeah. Like c-r-d. So should be fixed soon then. 09:45:19 So, welcome to the team! 09:45:31 Thanks to you, I'm not the new dev anymore. You are! :) 09:45:50 heh, thanks :) 09:48:18 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:39 * kilobyte cheers wildly. 10:05:30 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:37 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:39 -!- stephen_f has quit [Client Quit] 10:22:04 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:08 back 10:30:45 commit mail by MarvinPA is in <3 10:31:28 I made the fake V:8 vault entry vault. Would anyone be offended if I restrict to humans? 10:32:29 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:34 Also, no comments on the help lines page :( 10:33:47 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39:10 dpeg: wasn't it always restricted to humans until wiglaf? 10:42:32 Eronarn: yes 10:45:56 dpeg: I'm glad I was right that the vault was intended to just be humans :) 10:47:28 dpeg: also, I have a suggested list of trove prices to show you 10:49:53 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:25 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:58:05 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:43 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:41 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:34 03galehar * r43fa06c26cee 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Skill menu: minor cosmetic change to the footer line. 12:04:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:10 -!- eith has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:06 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:00 elliptic: do you have my email address? 12:22:16 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:27 dpeg: no, what is it? 12:31:25 -!- stephen_f has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:34:55 dpeg: what about Jiyva's jelly paralyzation? That's the only prayer with a duration left. 12:45:51 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:53 -!- joosa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:08 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 12:48:09 kilobyte: good question... 12:48:17 is an ability free for Jiyva? 12:54:38 since we can have 50+ abilities with no further problems, there certainly is 12:55:54 is there a way to remove a level annotation without visiting it or the level below/above? 12:56:52 if not, it would be cool to be able to do so in the shift+x screen - now that you can look at all levels with [/] 13:01:16 re 13:20:15 -!- Moriasc has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 13:33:35 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:24 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:05 -!- Celentes has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:45 we could just remove the jiyva jelly prayer :) (but tone down jiyva eating items before you ever get a chance to see them, because seriously) 13:52:58 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:55 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:14 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:02 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:28 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:23 Orc:4 vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3391) by st 15:06:23 03kilobyte * rbf3a247e3e65 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des: Get rid of remnants of tiered unique depths. 15:06:25 03kilobyte * r4beb0cac1c18 10/crawl-ref/source/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Make Elyvilon's weapon sacrifice use 'p'. Lifesaving is 'aP'. 15:06:28 03kilobyte * r0239865da600 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc religion.cc religion.h wiz-you.cc): Remove the notion of praying for gifts. 15:06:33 03kilobyte * r1c1d130d64b9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Rename DUR_PRAYER to DUR_JELLY_PRAYER, as that's what it is. 15:06:35 03kilobyte * r4a15e322255f 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Simplify prayer a bit. 15:08:52 !tell dpeg people say 'ap' for Evilyon would be better than 'aP' 15:08:53 kilobyte: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 15:09:27 hmm, why not aa? it's easier to type for something that you use all the time 15:09:30 kilobyte: just in 15:09:30 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:09:33 or was that insufficiently flavourful? 15:09:39 ely life saving isn't something you use all the time, is it? 15:09:42 oh, I see 15:09:43 TGWi: not at all 15:09:46 aa is minor heal other 15:09:49 I thought it was sac-weapons, rather than lifesaving 15:09:53 one of the problems with 'p' is accidental key pressing 15:09:54 nah, that's on p now 15:09:55 or is sac-weapons on p nowadays 15:10:42 that's what that commit did 15:10:48 aha 15:10:58 nht said ely lifesaving could be passive like other gods and that sort of makes a lot of sense 15:11:01 did fedhas change? if not, he probably should too 15:11:08 OG17: it's passive as well as active atm 15:11:12 isn't it? 15:11:31 kilobyte: okay, perhaps 'ap' is just good enogh 15:11:36 no idea 15:11:40 100% at max piety with elyvilon and prayer 15:11:46 though I guess you lose the buchering flavor unless I'm making that up 15:12:08 OG17: we don't want 100% lifesaving at ****** piety without any commitment 15:12:18 prayer (i.e. 'ap') is a commitment 15:12:37 casmith789: actually, 130 piety 15:12:40 one activation turn is a commitment? 15:12:48 yes, because you can't attack during it 15:13:15 well guess I forgot all about that! 15:13:19 OG17: you cannot attack during prayer 15:14:19 03kilobyte * red61c0ed7354 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Move Ely's protection from 'aP' to 'ap'. 15:14:33 is yred aP? 15:14:45 wait, not yred, whoever's left 15:15:13 there are two non-sac prayers left: Jiyva, Zin 15:15:22 what's zin prayer 15:15:26 manna 15:15:31 feeding? 15:15:46 yeah 15:20:52 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:50 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:36 Hi! 15:31:52 evening :) 15:44:25 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:22 could merge zin food with revitalization and make it activateable while starving 15:46:25 or something 15:46:46 vitalization should get looked at 15:47:01 you probably knew that though 15:47:40 oh yes i know that 15:47:44 i already looked at it, actually 15:47:52 i couldn't think of a way to make it interesting 15:48:41 I'd expand on debuff removal, it's relatively unique 15:49:05 alternatively replace it with something more zinnesque 15:49:14 isn't that ely's purification? 15:49:31 yeah, the two have overlap 15:49:43 ??purification 15:49:43 purification[1/1]: Removes negative conditions (Rot, Poison, Slow, Sick, ...) 15:49:52 hmm 15:49:55 ??vitalisation 15:49:55 vitalisation[1/1]: If needed, may partially restore hp, mp, rotted hp, degenerated stats, confusion, poisoning, rotting, disease. If none of those are necessary, may give temporary boosts to attributes (stackable up to 9(?) points). Also bears a chance to give you a small temporary maxHP boost. Does not really work properly (0.4.X). 15:49:59 i forget how they actually mechanically differ other than zin's giving +stats 15:50:09 vitalisation only removes a few things 15:50:34 it's kind of funny that most of zin's abilities would fit as ely ones 15:50:58 vitalisation should get replaced then 15:50:59 wow, that (0.4.X) is old 15:51:09 ais523: it hasn't changed much since then 15:51:13 indeed 15:51:20 is it still buggy? 15:51:28 i don't know but it's still bad/boring 15:52:01 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:11 ??bad ideas[1135] 15:52:11 bad ideas[1135/3026]: Worshipping Zin. 15:52:19 here's one wacky idea: zin gives a stat boost for being pure, like chei does, except actually making sense because purity of body 15:52:35 chei gives boost for being pure? 15:52:47 if you do get rotted or something, this immediately lowers your stat boost 15:53:01 I don't like that 15:53:01 and it gradually rebuilds as you avoid being rotted, mutated, etc. 15:53:02 surely it's pretty easy to be pure with zin 15:53:11 because 1) zin prevents that stuff for you 15:53:12 since he sort of protects you from rot and mutations 15:53:14 :P 15:53:39 MarvinPA: yeah but not infallibly; remember, revitalization is a lower-level piety ability 15:53:50 2) do we need a god to disincentivise rotting and mutations 15:53:53 if at 100 piety you get 'maxed out' on this stat boost that's not strictly bad 15:54:03 disincentive? is that a verb? 15:54:04 if it's interesting below that level of piety 15:54:11 disincentive is a noun 15:54:15 what's the verb 15:54:27 would this be an activated stat boost replacing vitalisation? 15:54:29 disincentivise, duh 15:54:48 adding flat stat boosts won't make zin more interesting 15:54:49 sorry 15:55:00 MarvinPA: well as i described it'd have to be passive. i dont' think an active stat boost would work well tbh 15:55:13 TGWi: it'd be interesting if you had to actually make choices to maintain them 15:55:16 well chei has sort of demonstrated that passive boosts don't really work well either :P 15:55:24 choices between rotting and not rotting? 15:55:46 TGWi: if there's any problem it's that rot/mutating aren't common enough 15:55:57 ely does the negative effect removal better already though, so it'd definitely be good to move away from that for zin 15:56:04 seriously, using stat boost to enforce gimmicky conduct X isn't good 15:56:11 that's exactly what you don't like about cheibriados 15:56:13 and ashenzari 15:56:14 imagine if it were, say, taking fire damage. normally a character doesn't want to take fire damage, but might occasionally allow themselves to because it's not any worse than any other kind of damage 15:56:52 that sort of choice can matter, but rotting and mutating are in practice pretty rare 15:57:09 the only things zin has that are not really ely are the antimutation, strict dietary code, and recite 15:57:11 people already avoid mutations like the devil 15:57:18 because mutations are worse than not having mutations 15:57:32 also rotting 15:57:38 we could look into the ally-related stuff 15:57:49 ally stuff should be elyvilon 15:57:53 the god of healing your allies 15:57:56 if new recite is actually good then maybe zin would be fine without vitalisation at all, and just don't worry about replacing it 15:58:02 -!- stephen_f has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:58:13 elyvilon dislikes allies, though (indirectly, by punishing you for letting them die) 15:58:17 MarvinPA: i think recite, imprison, sanctuary is a pretty shitty progression 15:58:36 (also, why is sanctuary not an ely ability? who knows) 15:58:56 thinking about the flavour, some sort of uncurse would fit best; but I doubt it'd work well in gameplay terms 15:58:59 it doesn't heal anything 15:59:13 TGWi: where's the stat boost in Ashenzari? 15:59:15 well recite stays good all game as you build invoc, imprison could do with a buff, and sanctaury is the awesome high-end emergency button 15:59:19 dpeg: well, the exp boost 15:59:19 !tell due zipcode just got cigotuvi's fleshworks on cdo trunk. i got him to waste a few hundred turns in front of the humanoids and they are back to not talking. !lm N78291 place=wizlab turn=51542 -tv:>$ 15:59:20 Mu_: OK, I'll let due know. 15:59:21 same principle 15:59:31 TGWi: it prevents stuff from attacking and breaks if you attack stuff so 15:59:33 specific conduct -> boring generic gain 15:59:35 pretty ely-like 15:59:37 plus zin provides good passive protection (mutations, sickness, rotting, hell effects) 16:00:01 TGWi: that's temporaryx 16:00:05 dpeg: yeah 16:00:33 that's not the point, I'm just saying eronarn has a record of not liking things that are exactly like what he's proposing 16:01:02 do any of you programmer types have any idea why the cigotuvi prisoner speech doesn't work on CDO 16:01:14 I think that Protection from Harm (Elyvilon) and Sanctuary (Zin) are a good way of distributing these: Ely protects your life as it is being threatened, whereas Zin creates a little patch of purity, wherever needed. 16:01:32 TGWi: ah, I begin to understand the discussion 16:01:44 TGWi: because they're not really choices in the same way; you always want to be slow on chei and you always want to be cursed on ash, and you do this when you put on gear 16:02:04 but to be fair, I found something similar with my stuff to... sometimes you end up with a decision even if it seems unlikely to be ideal, just to go on 16:02:19 if some ability X might cause some harmful effect Y to you, that actually can change a tactical situation 16:02:45 For example, I had a hunch that Chei's stat boosts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure that players know and visibly see slow = good. The stat boosts at least meet that. 16:02:53 in a fight you can't decide to become uncursed and swap your gear, or take off your ponderous crap 16:03:17 however, you can decide that you're not going to move next to that rotting devil even if the other options are less safe HP-wise 16:03:23 er, more safe, rather 16:03:30 on a not-exactly-related note, can we have ponderous shields please 16:03:30 er, wait, argh 16:03:47 so fewer races are completely incompatible with chei 16:03:47 !lm N78291 place=wizlab turn=51542 -tv:>$ 16:03:47 1. 78291, XL16 DSEE, T:51542 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 16:03:47 Eronarn: are you saying that that makes the curses/ponderous less or more attractive as a design? 16:04:03 casmith789: yes, seems good 16:04:23 dpeg: different. strategic choices are fine, it's just that i don't think strategic choices => passive buff is good 16:04:35 unless you actually have options 16:04:41 further along the ponderous tangent, any obvious downsides to having effects of ponderousness (both downsides and chei boosts) scale with inventory slots such that low-slot races aren't at a disadvantage? 16:04:48 say, if ash could only bind either magic or armor 16:04:57 and abilities you got depended on which you had bound 16:05:05 monqy: yes, that's where my original proposal didn't meet high standards... :( 16:05:16 :( 16:05:20 there, strategic choice => changes tactical options, without having to flat out lose the god's effects (as if you took off chei armor) 16:05:21 monqy: it's a bit bizarre if ponderous is doubly effective against ogres 16:05:33 I think a spriggan of chei could be fun but it's not really viable 16:05:34 or 2.5ly or whatever 16:05:52 TGWi: it's also a bit bizarre that ogres can't please chei as well as other races 16:06:08 ogres are a little slow already 16:06:12 it's almost cheating 16:06:25 perhaps slowness shouldn't be tied to gear, but I can't think of anything else at the moment 16:06:30 move ponderous off of armor and make it a property of the player 16:06:38 that works 16:06:55 a - Take It Easy. reduces your speed. can be activated multiple times 16:07:18 so 1 time = 1 speed, 2 times = -2 speed, etc. 16:07:37 you can take it all off in one go, but then lose almost all your chei effectiveness 16:08:07 why couldn't players just stack it up to infinity? 16:08:09 allowing people to instantly bail out of slowness misses the point of chei 16:08:11 chei worshippers shouldn't be able to deactivate their slow 16:08:16 ais523: there'd be a cap obviously 16:08:20 and I agree with TGWi and casmith789 on that 16:08:21 ais523: piety restriction 16:08:46 then make it instant => a level, but turns to get out of it. or takes time either way 16:09:10 and yeah, piety restriction could work 16:09:36 also imo drop the chei resists and replace them with delayed damage 16:09:45 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:09 you get hit for 100 - you take 50, then 25, then 12... 16:11:46 interestinmg 16:12:03 but the resistances are immediately visible 16:12:36 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:16 dpeg: this could be visible too :) use cyan on the HP bar to show how much HP damage will be incoming 16:21:39 yes, sure 16:21:45 but it will be harder to balance :) 16:22:04 damage reduction is more complicated to estimate than a pip of resistance 16:24:20 not damage reduction, though - just delay in taking damage 16:24:48 what does that even do? 16:25:04 TGWi: < Eronarn> you get hit for 100 - you take 50, then 25, then 12... 16:25:23 yes, but what does that even do? 16:25:28 you die slowly 16:25:33 more chance to react 16:25:42 but you've already taken the damage 16:25:53 the only difference is that you can heal after the fact 16:26:12 which is not really interesting 16:27:31 at 25/100 = may die if you don't blink, at 50/100 + 25 more incoming = you might be able to kill the thing, and then just quaff potions after 16:28:05 if you know you're going to die it's quite good 16:28:16 especially if you get hit by a 100 damage attack from an ettin or whatever 16:29:26 i think the main problem with it would be that it'd be better if there were something you could 'do' with the damage 16:29:32 rather than just quaffing potions 16:30:34 regenerate naturally? 16:30:49 it'd be like a couple of extra maxhp, in that sense 16:30:51 not in three turns 16:31:13 cheibriados, god of rounding errors and slightly buffing regeneration 16:31:14 well, it'd give regeneration effects a use 16:31:24 also, Crawl so needs a god of rounding errors 16:31:34 cheibriados, god of divinations 16:32:01 I could gain 5hp in 3 turns with my troll 16:33:22 casmith789: troll, leather, trog, ring? 16:33:29 troll and ring 16:34:03 pbd demonspawn can get 10 hp/turn or something in ridiculous circumstances 16:34:14 or at command if they're worshiping kiku 16:34:33 well, let's think of it like this. if you take 50% each turn it goes, instead of '50', '50 25 12 6 3 1 1 1 1' 16:34:40 er, scratch the initial 50 in the second one 16:35:16 if you have 1/turn regen, that's enough to make the effective damage be 43 instead of 50 16:36:21 which is noticeable, if not amazing; but then also the ability to have more turns to react is valuable 16:37:25 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:32 i also think that 'give more time to think' is a very chei ability 16:37:53 sounds like it, yes 16:38:04 Kirke new tile candidate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3392) by Curio 16:40:28 could also add a regen boost to chei to pair with this ability... him speeding your healing doesn't make sense, but he could slow your healing when you're at full HP and return your healing speed in combat 16:40:54 ughugh 16:41:06 "slow your healing when you're at full HP" what 16:41:21 I like the idea of slowing down damage intake better. 16:41:26 hi 16:41:26 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:41:29 !messages 16:41:30 (1/1) Mu_ said (42m 10s ago): zipcode just got cigotuvi's fleshworks on cdo trunk. i got him to waste a few hundred turns in front of the humanoids and they are back to not talking. !lm N78291 place=wizlab turn=51542 -tv:>$ 16:41:31 Hi due! 16:41:49 casmith789: damage slowed so it hits you later; your healing in times when you don't need it also slowed so it hits you later 16:42:23 Mu_: :( 16:42:32 so I wait for 800000 turns and then become invulnerable, right 16:42:46 I don't like the ability or the flavour 16:42:51 Eronarn: you want to replace stat boosts with a complicated mechanism which, in effect, multiplies your hp regeneration 16:43:01 due: any theories? :P 16:43:01 in addition to making sure you never need to care about danger again 16:43:09 Mu_: "the world sucks" 16:43:15 TGWi: wait did you really go from 'why is this useful to' 'this is broken' 16:43:19 maybe i should bug greensnark about it :P 16:43:33 Mu_: it's possible that they're not getting the talative flag 16:43:38 I wanted to know what you were thinking 16:43:50 notice where I said "lets you heal after the fact, which is uninteresting" 16:44:10 due: but why only on cdo? D: 16:44:35 Mu_: dunno. 16:44:47 TGWi: there's definitely potential with gaining extra turns to react; i agree that it could get boring if your only option were to chug potions in response to damage 16:45:02 Eronarn: it's a complicated mechanism to accomplish a boring end 16:45:44 yeah but i wouldn't implement it as-is, but only if a way were found to make it interesting 16:46:01 and i think it's a lot more likely that something could make that work than that something could make passive resists work 16:49:16 Eronarn: I believe that your expectation are a bit too high: what is wrong with the basic assumption of Chei: you play a completely different game thanks to the conduct, and that's it. As long as not all gods are like this (and they aren't), where's the problem? 16:49:45 hmm, it would really be cool, if your attack speed for crossbows/bows could be shown in @ too 16:51:34 due, mu: is it only cdo or any 64 bit platform build 16:51:47 due: i'm a fuckin genius i can reproduce it in wizmode 16:52:00 Mu_: reproduce what? 16:52:05 them not talking 16:52:05 RjY: yes, well, that i a possibility i had considered. 16:52:10 Mu_: how did you do it? 16:52:25 due: place the wizlab portal entrance in vault instead of D 16:52:32 hm 16:52:32 dpeg: i don't think it's high expectations to want a god to have a power more interesting than 'you get better stats and resists for something you would've done with that god anyways' 16:52:42 Mu_: okay, let me recompile 16:52:46 \o/ 16:53:05 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:16 or try cdo wizmode :P 16:53:19 it'd be like if vehumet gave you a boost to int for having a destructive spell memorized 16:53:53 oh my, new kirke tile is sweet 16:53:57 it would be like that if destructive spells were slow movement speed 16:54:04 Mu_: with local i can at least use gdb and backtraces etc 16:54:09 Eronarn: this doesn't really describe the conduct 16:54:14 oh ok, smart stuff :P 16:54:18 Napkin: true! 16:54:33 due: they speak if i place the portal in crypt, but haven't twice now from vault... 16:54:41 TGWi: chei is about slow movement speed and chei characters should want to have it - if the only way to get them to want it seems to be giving them a pile of generically good bonuses that calls into question the god's other abilities 16:54:42 which is very, very odd 16:54:47 Napkin: could you add it to the current forum discussion about the weapon screen? 16:55:09 uuh, i'll try 16:55:13 thank you 16:55:32 don't speak from elf either 16:55:55 makhleb healing is pretty good but i'm pretty sure some people would still use makhleb even if he didn't give it because his other abilities would still be useful, likewise if old oka didn't give randarts 16:56:04 i don't think the same can be said for chei 16:56:41 pouch and slow monsters would make it work no matter what 16:56:42 and it seems a shame that the main draw of 'god of slowness + also kind of time i guess' is having very high stats/resists 16:57:23 similar to the problem i have with ashenzari where people seem to mostly go for him for 'xp boost + don't have a conduct' rather than 'scrying' 16:57:59 or fedhas where the best abilities are 'rain/sunlight/explosions' rather than 'plant life' 16:58:26 wow you seem to be right about the portal from vaults thing 16:58:32 i wonder if this affects all portals generated in those branches 16:58:42 thanks for checkin RjY :P 16:58:42 huh? oklobs and wandering mushrooms are pretty great 16:58:44 it... shouldn't 16:58:50 it shouldn't affect any 16:58:53 that it does is a bug 16:59:06 MarvinPA: Eronarn's ideas ar eoccasionally crazy. ;) 16:59:13 done, dpeg 16:59:16 due: same with elf for me too :3 16:59:18 * due offers MarvinPA a pinch of salt with his Eronarn dose. 16:59:36 s/occasionally // 16:59:43 TGWi: smoe of them are awesome 16:59:44 MarvinPA: they're a good start but i don't think they are enough 16:59:53 due: not incompatible with crazy 16:59:54 s/'s ideas// 17:00:05 eronarn are crazy 17:00:12 I've experienced (and seen elsewhere) that Ash detection is useful... in so many games, Crawl being no exception, information is power. 17:00:45 IIRC, dtsund used to think that detect monsters was the most powerful spell in NetHack, Angband /and/ Crawl 17:01:01 And I believe that Fedhas is a very round god... the abilities fit, and there's much more than the weather. I'd bet that most players would say oklobs before rain, actually. 17:01:20 and hardly anyone would say explosions right 17:01:20 dpeg: i'm not saying it's useless, it's a good start to a god; i just don't feel that it in practice it's as powerful as other god abilities and i dislike most of the other ash stuff 17:01:29 argh i know why 17:01:39 can you fix it :P 17:01:40 Mu_: branch prefix. 17:01:41 also, have you tried fedhas on a merfolk? :P 17:01:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:47 ais523: I absolutely see where he's coming from. In Crawl, we have nerfed Detect Monsters a bit (fuzziness, and it could wake up casters), but it is still either useless or (more often) overpowered. 17:01:50 on-demand deep water is pretty amazing 17:01:55 due: wassat mean 17:01:57 i still really haven't tried fedhas properly, he does seem like he should be pretty fun/powerful 17:02:11 Mu_: the speech key code adds branch suffixes to the list of keys 17:02:20 Mu_: so if you're in a branch "monster_key" might become "elf monster_key". 17:02:25 It is no secret that a Mf of Fedhas will have particularly high opinion on rain. 17:02:27 i'm not great with gods where you use active abilities lots though, i tend towards passive boosts i guess 17:02:29 And thus no speech is ever found of them. 17:02:33 MarvinPA: the oklobs die pretty hard later on; fruit limitation is fine until that happens; sunlight/rain/explosions are good but don't feel very plant-y 17:02:35 ahhhh 17:02:42 Mu_: that's why we made Ashenzari! :) 17:02:53 Mu_ <---> MarvinPA, too many M people here 17:02:56 heh 17:02:58 -!- due is now known as mdue 17:03:02 mu_rvinpa 17:03:10 explosions in particular is just... ugh, i cannot stand that ability 17:03:10 -!- TGWi is now known as MGWi 17:03:11 dpeg --> mppeg ;) 17:03:13 /nick mzannick 17:03:16 due: how come they speak ok when i enter from crypt?? 17:03:29 Mu_: not sure, haven't finished ocmpiling :) 17:03:33 the oklobs should be pretty tough if you train invoc all game 17:03:36 oh ok :P 17:03:37 it's probably the most destructive ability in the game 17:03:51 since you can stack like 8 giant spore explosions on one enemy if you do it right 17:04:23 the speech works if you put the portal on lair:1 though 17:04:26 well it did for me anyway 17:05:52 fails from snake and orc too 17:06:26 works from swamp, idk i'm gonna find a pattern without understanding the code :P 17:06:30 on the ns 17:07:10 longass compile :P 17:08:26 -!- mdue is now known as due 17:08:29 yes, well, it's crawl 17:09:19 i don't suppose anyone knows how enchantment delay works? 17:09:38 i want to reinstate the 'was recited against' for recite, so that stuff only gets hit once per recite, but limit it to lasting like 4 turns 17:10:07 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:31 Eronarn: I've done some stuff with it 17:10:42 oh wait 17:10:45 only on the player 17:11:04 bug 17:11:21 if you hit backspace from a sub-menu to get to backgrounds 17:11:25 it shows every background in white 17:11:52 i generally know how it works, just i'm not sure how the delay actually corresponds to turns 17:12:24 oh, not a bug, just choose character before race, huh. 17:13:48 that isn't very new is it? :p 17:16:28 i dunno, isn't it? 17:17:22 i thought only space did it, though 17:17:41 03MarvinPA * r3b7db3e92b41 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Don't cancel Condensation Shield when blinking/teleporting 17:17:46 03MarvinPA * r5b1ebd517a77 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Improve Alistair's Intoxication description 17:17:47 03MarvinPA * raacbab817b27 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Make semi-controlled blink random if it fails to find a location 17:18:42 MarvinPA: having fun? :) 17:18:52 :D 17:19:01 yay for commits :) 17:19:09 love that sblink change 17:19:20 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:23 he buffed semicontrolled blink :( 17:19:36 since i got killed by a failing sblink once :P 17:19:59 MarvinPA: while you're at it, change scroll cblink to semiblink in noctele :) 17:20:10 !lg place=Zot:5 17:20:16 2. bookofjude the Sabretooth (L23 FeBe), worshipper of Trog, annihilated by an Orb Guardian on Zot:5 (hall of Zot) on 2010-10-14, with 394718 points after 98025 turns and 4:59:51. 17:20:28 Hm. 17:20:32 !lg place=Zot:5 -2 17:20:32 1. bookofjude the Politician (L27 SpBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by an orb of fire (fireball) on Zot:5 on 2009-06-29, with 571317 points after 143877 turns and 8:33:34. 17:20:39 MarvinPA: so you're gonna commit forest wyrms right :D 17:20:42 I like Trog too much 17:20:52 MarvinPA: rule 1: NEver commit anything of Eronarn's ;) 17:20:57 haha 17:21:27 rule 2: buff teleport control 17:21:40 whilst decrying power gamers 17:21:50 rule 3: for every commit there is an equal and opposite commit 17:22:16 all apt boosts must come with debuffing apts of something else 17:22:16 Zannick: well, that's 'git revert' 17:22:21 due: indeed 17:33:45 Dubious quick poll: what are your opinions on the feature quotes? (keep it short: +1 == cool/keep, 0 == don't care, -1 = bad/remove) 17:34:02 Keep them short. 17:34:04 also item/monster quotes, of course 17:34:13 I am absolutely for quotes. 17:34:21 But we should have a maximum of three/four lines per quote. 17:34:33 Longer possibly for uniques. 17:34:49 Common monsters possibly don't need quotes; likewise common items. 17:35:10 I don't mean descriptions... but you probably got that :) 17:35:16 Uniques, rare monsters, vault-defined monsters, rare items, runes, orb, rare potions, rare weapons, "rare" features (branch stairs specifically)... 17:35:22 Oh, I know exactly what you mena. 17:35:59 The Tomb quote is 100 words. 17:36:10 The granite statue quote is... 17:36:11 i like the quotes 17:36:16 15 lines, 116 words. 17:36:40 okay, so it seems I cannot extrapolate my hate of them onto the active devteam :) 17:36:49 thanks for replying 17:36:56 dpeg: You do not like quotes at all? 17:37:02 dpeg: Or you do not like the very long quotes? 17:37:24 all of them 17:37:33 quotes should be coloured or something to look like not game text 17:37:43 or rather, to look unlike documentation 17:37:43 I think quotes could be good, but I believe that Nat (or Peter?) didn't do a very good job with them. 17:37:57 there are some cool ones though, and from the forum I sense they're popular 17:38:18 dpeg: How about you have to hit a key to see the quote? 17:38:19 yes, seems like it 17:38:27 due: that, or show them in darkgrey 17:38:38 I'd prefer hitting a key. It would resolve wizmode issues. 17:38:47 MarvinPA: awesome move on PbP <3 17:38:51 It would mean we could keep the longer ones around because some of them are pretty cool. 17:38:56 But that they would also be out of sight initially. 17:39:01 To actually see them one woulbd have to go looking, etc. 17:39:02 :) 17:39:08 There is also the issue of artefacts... those have often not enough space to show the quote. 17:39:16 Yes. 17:39:22 i like quotes but put them below all the other stuff 17:39:35 artefacts can omit the quotes, they're on every base type item 17:39:36 I'm going to make it "hit ! to see a witty quote on this"? 17:39:55 MGWi: let's have "The quoting sword". It emits quotes. 17:40:02 yes 17:40:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:00 like if i'm checking to see if a monster has rPois or SInv or whatever, i'd like to not have to scan down through a bunch of lines of flavour text first 17:41:21 there were also some ideas to make the Singing Sword useful... too much going on, can't keep track 17:41:29 RjY: yes, I agree 17:41:42 RjY: totally agree 17:42:05 I also wanted every monster to get a hand-written paragraph... which says something in prose about the monster as a creature in Crawl 17:42:47 but that's a lot of work, and nobody really wants to do it... need the conscription of the ladies of an English Major course 17:42:55 dpeg: I've been makking smoe headway into this. 17:43:01 yes 17:44:54 I've also tried to switch away from using indefinite and definite pronouns to using demonstrative pronouns 17:45:01 ie, 'This monster' rather than 'A monster'. 17:45:17 I feel the mood that demonstratives evoke is so much better than indefinites and definites. 17:45:52 time to feed cat! 17:46:03 i dig it when due talks grammar 17:46:11 cats, dogs, babies... what has become of ##crawl-dev :) 17:46:29 Mu_: yes, absolutely 17:46:36 Mu_: 'A rather large rat.' 'This rat is the size of a small pony. How horrifying!' 17:46:43 The latter is *infinitely* more appealing to e. 17:47:03 I mean, it totally breaks the whole show-don't-tell rule, but I think that in this intance, it works better. 17:47:31 replace rats with ponies 17:48:16 Green pony: A rather large pony. 17:52:19 <+due> MGWi: let's have "The quoting sword". It emits quotes. 17:52:22 "a raven-black sword" 17:52:33 <3 17:53:01 actually, though, i'd rather it be a shield 17:53:08 so you can use it at the same time as the singing sword 17:54:40 It spouts useless factoids. 17:55:04 ...teehee, Singing Sword + Quoting Ward 17:55:08 fortune cookies anyone? :) 17:55:15 since i doubt you'll get alliteration on Q 17:55:45 due: i will write a random dungeon crawl factoid generator for it 17:55:59 "Did you know that door mimics are the size of a door?" 17:56:13 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 17:56:44 Eronarn: i will quode it <3 17:56:50 (get a random monster or item, get a random line from its inspected description, and then apply some regexp to make it properly work would probably work nicely) 17:57:01 no regexp 17:57:15 don't believe we have native regexp support in crowl 17:57:28 oh, does C++ not have them by default 17:57:28 lame 17:57:46 well, I'll have to look at how descriptions are output and see what I can do but it should be feasible either way 17:57:50 since they're already broken into chunks 17:58:59 (btw, what should I do to check if two squares can see each other? there may not be monsters in either - it's to prevent summoned plants from going through walls) 18:00:08 argh this is horifying 18:00:21 Eronarn: cell_see_cell and define opacity. 18:03:37 time to shower, etc, brb. 18:09:18 due: we have a regex lib in contrib/, we use it for stash search 18:09:46 you can also use regexes to drop stuff 18:09:56 although I only know of one player to have used this 18:18:06 sorear: ah 18:28:19 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 18:31:07 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:36 yay, got plant breath working, then 18:32:46 it took finding out that we have both place_monster and create_monster 18:33:12 Eronarn: one is for summons, the other is a wrapper arond place_monster. 18:33:16 which one are you using? 18:34:07 due: i was using create_monster, but now place_monster 18:34:18 as the latter lets you be precise about where it is located 18:37:01 well, they both let you be precise 18:39:44 omg, come oooon... one mottled dragon does one liquid fire breathe on me and I lose 17 of my 18 scrolls? :( 18:40:09 due: i was getting stuff placed like 4/5 away 18:40:15 with create_monster 18:40:25 also: // Alligators shouldn't spam swiftness. 18:40:38 sorry, hit twice by it 18:40:44 does this code really do what i think it does 18:43:05 and i can't even do a feature request issue... grrr 18:43:51 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:44:04 Eronarn: were you setting the position and setting force_pos? 18:44:14 Eronarn: yes, it does do what you think it doese. 18:44:25 Eronarn: it uses the monster number + player turns to determine when it last cast swiftness. 18:46:19 due: is using MG_FORCE_POS the right way to set it? i tried that, whereas the other one takes a bool to determine it 18:48:44 something like that 18:48:47 this code is horrifying :( 18:49:32 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH 18:49:38 :O 18:49:44 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH 18:49:46 * due seppuku. 18:49:50 which code? 18:50:04 The item description code. 18:50:41 oh, i remember that 18:50:50 I tihnk I bllocked out the last time I looked at it. 18:50:53 i had to mess with it a bit for silly hats patch 19:08:15 weird, it keeps blowing plant breath >:| 19:09:35 ...oh wait, i'm stupid 19:09:44 Mwahaha, it works! 19:10:04 i checked that the square was habitable, didn't have a monster, and was visible to the wyrm 19:10:14 i didn't check that the square wasn't the *player's* square :P 19:10:55 -!- MGWi is now known as TGWi 19:23:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:33 huh, in MTG, "wyverns" get translated as "lindwurm" in german 19:45:50 -!- stephen_f has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:47:23 ahaha TGWi 19:47:47 // Effectively slows down monster movement across water. 19:47:54 effectively 19:48:01 if (mons->type == MONS_FIRE_ELEMENTAL || one_chance_in(5)) no_water = true; 19:48:25 what does no_water do 19:48:56 else if (no_water && feat_is_water(target_grid)) return false, in mon_can_move_to_position 19:49:41 so instead of applying a movement cost or osmething else sane it does a d5 check per time a monster tries tosee if it can enter water 19:50:27 fire elementals actually have tow completely separate checks to make sure they don't enter water 20:00:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:18 oh ew ew ew, something broke in try_pathfind :( 20:18:46 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:59:14 due: have any thought on what might make an 'invisible' monster that prevents movement and crashes the game if inspected? 20:59:25 it doesn't persist on saving and reloading, either 20:59:32 i'm guessing not properly killing something somewhere 21:03:20 Eronarn: gdb ./crawl $(pidof crawl) 21:05:02 sorear: is that different from gdb attach (pid)? all i got out of it was which assert it failed at 21:05:22 no, not different 21:05:35 you can get a lot more info from gdb than just line numbers 21:06:00 yeah, i know where it's failing - if the monster is inspected - what i don't know is what the monster is, why it's still there, etc.; if you have any tips on using gdb to get that it'd be helpful 21:06:06 you could, for instance, inspect the player's position and menv, etc contents 21:06:19 p EXPR works for simple C++ expressions 21:06:57 if that doesn't work, turn to pointer games 21:07:11 if that doesn't work, move on to x 21:11:20 sorear: so right now i've got it isolated to just before the crash; gdb is attached; do i cause the crash and then look? or suspend execution first? 21:11:55 Eronarn: suspend execution and inspect memory 21:12:07 once the crash happens, inspection becomes harder 21:12:46 actually if you want to debug the crash itself, it might be easier from the assert 21:16:43 hmm, this isn't too helpful because i'm not used enough to crawl's code to know where to look :P 21:23:37 oh wait, i guess p env helps a bit 21:41:02 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:41:15 http://pastebin.com/faBh2TRL 21:41:20 this is the phantom monster in question 21:41:46 not sure if that has any information that 'there is a phantom monster' didn't 22:24:48 how did you get this? 22:24:54 menv[][]? 22:26:31 without context, all I can tell from that is that you're on a 64 bit machine 22:27:21 foe = 27000 is also interesting; that's a wildly invalid value, unless somebody changed MHITNOT and MHITYOU while I wasn't looking (are they still 200 and 201 resp.?) 22:40:43 sorear: that's from env.mons 22:41:02 Eronarn: How did you pick it out of env.mons? 22:41:35 you.pos() and looked for a monster at the appropriate offset 22:41:50 since i didn't know the syntax to access a monster at a given xy 22:42:38 monsters aren't deleted from mons[] when they are killed 22:42:56 the crux of the killing operation is deletion from mgrd 22:43:21 let me get the proper gdb syntax for that 22:43:25 * sorear git pull 22:44:05 992 files changed, 29235 insertions(+), 13133 deletions(-) 22:44:40 heh 22:44:55 try env.mgrid(x,y) 22:45:08 also, could it be: 22:45:13 ./defines.h:#define NON_ENTITY 27000 22:45:54 yeah 22:46:08 "back in my day, that number was 200!" 22:46:37 Couldn't find method crawl_environment::mgrid 22:46:45 erp 22:47:14 i see mgrid in the env struct, but i guess it needs a method to access it? 22:47:41 env.mgrid[x][y]? 22:48:03 that gets One of the arguments you tried to pass to operator[] could not be converted to what the function wants. 22:48:08 though env.mgrid does work 22:48:18 what are you passing for x and y? 22:48:23 nothing, just printing everything in it 22:48:33 oh, in the above, [12][58] 22:48:49 does it need to be (some data type) 12 or something 22:49:30 12UL is the actual type 22:49:39 but gdb should be smart enough to do that automatically 22:50:42 !tell kilobyte Still on that long-elimination crusade? See fixedarray.h:58 - we're using long to hold values in the 0-80 range 22:50:43 sorear: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 22:51:11 hmm, when the mgrid contains stuff like: 46, 27000, 27000, 27000, 27000, 27000, - the 46 is a mid? 22:51:27 yes 22:51:39 (back in my day, unused entries were -1) 22:52:10 env.mons.mData[12][58] may work 22:52:34 _n - an ancient steel ring (right hand) {tried, Dex-5 Int+3} 22:52:34 n - the ring "Ibe Sote" (right hand) {AC+4 Dex-5 Int+3} 22:52:37 this is a bug, right? 22:52:41 the AC didn't autoID? 22:52:43 there's no mid 61 in mgrid 22:52:57 from earlier, 22:53:00 _vptr.actor = 0xa4fb10, type = MONS_NO_MONSTER, mid = 61, position = { x = 15, y = 58} 22:55:22 i thought you couldn't even get AC on randarts now 22:56:22 you can get a ring of protection as the base type 22:56:25 unless I'm mistaken 22:56:31 it just doesn't assign AC/EV as extra properties 22:57:00 so it just makes it rarer? 22:57:10 in effect 22:57:15 and also incompatible with stuff like ring of fire 22:57:37 and you can't get AC and EV on the same randart 22:57:45 right 22:57:52 Eronarn: I'm not sure what mid is 22:57:58 but mostly it's rarer yeah 22:58:02 mid should not be stored in the monster 22:58:16 the stuff in mgrid is an *index* into env.mons 22:58:32 env.mons[env.mgrid[12][58]] // Access mob at 12,58 23:00:34 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:32 oh, it looks like .mid is kilobyte's monster GUID stuff 23:02:42 so .mid is completely unrelated to env.mgrid 23:03:11 ah, okay 23:03:49 hmm, i still get: 23:03:51 (gdb) p env.mons[env.mgrid[12][58]] 23:03:51 One of the arguments you tried to pass to operator[] could not be converted to what the function wants. 23:06:16 and it's the mgrid part in particular that it's erroring at, still 23:06:31 Did you try env.mgrid.mData[12][58] yet? 23:07:12 yeah, same error 23:08:04 How about env.mgrid.mData.mData[12].mData[58]? 23:08:21 ah, that returns 23:08:26 env.mgrid[12UL][58UL]? 23:09:43 that doesn't 23:10:23 but, i got the value from it - feeding that into env.mons[] gives me: Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted. 23:10:27 (and other details about the error) 23:11:37 What value did you get from it? 23:11:54 What was the abort message? 23:12:10 an int (27000 on an invalid square, actual values for squares with monsters incl. buggy one) 23:12:10 Does env.mgrid(coord_def(12, 58)) work? 23:12:35 env.mons[27000] should abort 23:12:48 http://pastebin.com/c0PNpWQe in particular 23:13:16 (12, 58 was actually me, i was looking at the wrong coords; 15, 58 is the monster) 23:13:38 p env.mgrid(coord_def(15, 58)) => syntax error 23:13:54 What is the value of env.mgrid.mData.mData[15].mData[58]? 23:14:11 43 23:15:08 env.mons[43] aborts? umm, that's seriously screwed up 23:15:19 any env.mons seems to though 23:15:23 not just [43] 23:15:51 (gdb) p env.mgrid.mData.mData[13].mData[58] 23:15:51 $30 = 21 23:15:52 (gdb) p env.mons[21] 23:15:52 Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted. 23:15:54 maybe it's just gdb being stupid with the template class 23:16:01 env.mons.mData[43] ? 23:16:38 (also, protip: build with HURRY=y to make debugging easier) 23:16:58 that works, but... it gets me the same data i got earlier by looking at env.mons manually :P 23:17:24 see http://pastebin.com/sf63mHk5 below the --- 23:17:26 looking at env.mons manually tells you nothing 23:17:46 the data in env.mons only has meaning in the context of mgrid 23:18:13 in particular, a monster slot is irrelevant unless it appears in mgrid somewhere 23:18:57 it was blocking movement, wouldn't that mean it has to appear in the mgrid? 23:19:18 no 23:19:26 it would mean *something* has to appear in mgrid 23:19:38 but it could be a different monster 23:20:12 ah, i see 23:20:19 we've already established that the game is broken, so we can't trust mgrid (X,Y -> ID) to agree with mons.x, mons.y (ID -> X,Y) 23:21:34 well, to the untrained eye it looks like: i'm killing a monster in a way that didn't previously happen; it's getting killed but not removed from mons or mgrid, just set to MONS_NO_MONSTER; or possibly i'm doing something creating a new monster at that x,y 23:21:44 but, it can't be something that happens every time since the code works intermittently 23:22:38 hmm... would killing something with monster_die, and then moving it, have these results? 23:22:53 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:57 because i may need to double check that i'm not doing that 23:24:24 You shouldn't do anything with a monster after killing it 23:24:30 it could very easily cause this 23:26:42 yep, that was it. i had a check for defender->alive() in one spot, but not in another 23:29:24 i think the only outstanding issue with the wyrms now is that the AI for cutting down plants is a bit quirky 23:29:48 need to revise that but i think it'll have to wait for v2 23:37:56 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5043-gaacbab8 23:54:32 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5043-gaacbab8 (32) 23:57:59 Eronarn: no, sorry, but did you work it out?