00:04:15 <Noom> Eronarn:where is can check recent changes ?
00:04:44 <Noom> Eronarn: gonna check if torment scroll changed
00:10:43 <Eronarn> Noom: http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref
00:14:38 <Noom> hmm no change it seems
00:14:42 <Noom> then it should be bug
00:15:46 <Eronarn> yeah, sounds like it
01:26:42 <Pacra> - 0000441: [Bug Report] Entered Pan Level; Dropped directly onto hellion island. (rob) - resolved.
01:26:48 <Pacra> oh, that's GOT to be frustrating
01:27:48 <due> <3 I  love that one.
01:30:32 <elliptic> I think that was a feature, not a bug
01:30:51 <monky> one time I got dropped next to hellion island but I could blink so it was fine
01:31:12 <Pacra> as an aside, what's pandemonium's political relationship with the abyss
01:31:17 <monky> by that I mean a blink scroll took me far enough away such as not to die
01:31:23 <Pacra> do they have good interdimensional relationships
01:31:26 <elliptic> yeah, most chars in pan should have some survival chance dropped in hellion island
01:31:35 <elliptic> and it isn't exactly very likely to happen
01:31:54 <monky> Pacra: sometimes there are abyss portals in pan
01:32:04 <monky> big open pan levels with abyss portals in the center happen
01:32:12 <Pacra> indeed
01:32:26 <Pacra> I feel like making abyss-themed minivaults for pan
01:32:36 <due> Pacra: feel free
01:32:50 <Pacra> and if there are abyss portals in pan... why not pan portals in the abyss? ;]
01:33:02 <elliptic> there were briefly in trunk a version or two ago
01:33:11 <elliptic> but they were removed for some reason
01:33:21 <Pacra> I guess a good argument against that is "no one would ever be so daft as to go in"
01:33:29 <monky> was it Eronarn's idea to have portals to everywhere in abyss
01:33:35 <Pacra> and if they were of a mind to go in, they're in the abyss for a reason.
01:33:55 <Pacra> it should be eronarn's idea, that's a great idea
01:33:56 <monky> portals back to place of entry/banishment, portals to pan, portals to hell
01:34:10 <monky> makes a good bit of sense to me at least
01:34:24 <Pacra> sounds deliciously abyssal.
01:35:13 <due> Pan portals in abyss are bad because the portla generation wasn't adjusted to compensate.
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01:46:20 <Pacra> <scwizard> " a +0 cloak of preservation                                 66 gold" <- that's kind of stupidly cheap
01:46:24 <Pacra> he's kind of right
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01:59:11 <felirx> now this is... odd
01:59:35 <felirx> removing set_transform() from CRTRegion::render() fixes galehars bug
01:59:48 <felirx> and does not affect char select menus
02:05:52 <due> *galehar's
02:06:14 <due> unless there are multiple galehar, in which case i rescind my unasked-for correction.
02:09:14 <felirx> now why does char selection menus work with set_transform() but ingame does not
02:09:18 <felirx> and vice versa
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02:27:58 <Napkin> moin!
02:28:10 <Napkin> merge on CDO failed tonight
02:30:18 <Gretell> Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2550-g15f7f50 (31.12)
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02:33:33 <Napkin> fixed!
02:34:15 <due> hi
02:34:33 <Napkin> hey due :)
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03:36:08 <Gretell> Icelos (L2 FeAE) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (D:1)
03:38:02 <Zaba> moin
03:39:10 <due> lol
03:39:19 <due> kilobyte: --^
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04:40:22 <Gretell> Surr (L3 HuIE) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (Sprint)
05:26:57 <Gretell> lomarcan77 (L5 MiBe) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (D:4)
05:34:51 <kilobyte> hrm, now I don't get this
05:34:51 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
05:35:27 <kilobyte> if it's not arena nor xray_vision, player.see_cell() returns cell_see_cell()
05:39:18 <Gretell> lomarcan77 (L6 MiBe) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (Sewer)
05:40:45 <kilobyte> great, cell_see_cell(three args) is different from cell_see_cell(two args)
05:40:54 <due> 'lol'.
05:41:00 <kilobyte> they use a completely different LOS algorithm
05:41:11 <felirx> consistency--
05:41:13 <kilobyte> which is... beyond merely wrong
05:42:06 <due> yay los
05:42:14 <due> what does git blame say?
05:43:16 <kilobyte> well, what do you want to search for?
05:48:33 <Gretell> Ragdoll (L1 DSTm) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (D:1)
05:49:44 <CIA-54> 03kilobyte * rb30346bfd65c 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Use the 3-argument cell_see_cell() rather than the 2-argument one.
05:53:49 <Gretell> Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2551-gb30346b (31.12)
06:01:29 <Gretell> Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2551-gb30346b
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06:07:52 <Gretell> Surr (L11 HEPa) ASSERT(you.xray_vision) in 'directn.cc' at line 972 failed. (D:10)
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11:47:22 <Eronarn> g'morning
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11:54:35 <TGWi> morning
12:25:30 <Eronarn> thought: titanic lich unique
12:25:33 <Eronarn> it's a titan who became a lich!
12:26:24 <TGWi> dracolich
12:27:08 <monky> make boris a felid
12:27:10 <kilobyte> pneumatic lich (a kenku skeleton)
12:27:53 <kilobyte> RL Iskenderun was a cat
12:28:14 <Eronarn> if i didn't get a bazaar message, and ash didn't announce it, is it a perma-bazaar?
12:28:30 <kilobyte> and the only way to have your spells in a book that's an "ancient artifact" is to be a lich or a ghost
12:28:40 <kilobyte> Eronarn: if Ash didn't announce it, it's a mimic
12:28:57 <kilobyte> no message means a perma-bazaar otherwise
12:29:06 <Eronarn> oh, right, mimics
12:29:08 <monky> I've seen books attributed to random uniques, such as nikola
12:29:15 <monky> randarts of course
12:29:16 <kilobyte> oh, now that's a bug
12:29:37 <kilobyte> well, same as newly made Chei stuff being "ancient artifacts" too
12:29:54 <monky> they were all fitting, e.g. the nikola book was air
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13:50:20 <Eronarn> would anyone be opposed to adding a status effect for unsteady footing?
13:50:28 <Eronarn> i.e., currently standing in shallow water
13:50:33 <Eronarn> for people who fumble in it
13:50:58 <TGWi> kilobyte: chei is the god of time
13:51:13 <TGWi> to make your gear an artefact, he ages it several centuries
13:55:02 <Eronarn> chei wrath: 5% chance per wrath of adding 100,000 turns to your turncount
14:12:05 <Eronarn> is it intentional that wyverns don't fly, btw?
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14:29:56 <Mu_> is it possible to change the chain lightning ally warning, from warning at every chain to only warning before the spell is cast? it's especially annoying with ball lightnings since they are immune to chain lightning damage anyway but you still have to click through a 'Really attack your ball lightning?' every time the spell arcs to them
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14:30:29 <MarvinPA|2> surely that's a bug
14:30:34 <MarvinPA|2> what happens if you say no?
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14:30:39 <Mu_> the entire spell cancels out
14:30:58 <MarvinPA> doesn't it arc, do some damage, and then prompt you, though?
14:31:13 <Mu_> not if the first arc is to an ally
14:32:10 <MarvinPA> oh ok
14:32:13 <Mu_> it also sometimes grounds out instantly without even hitting any targets at all
14:32:22 <Mu_> as a separate issue
14:32:27 <MarvinPA> yeah that got me killed last time i used it
14:32:29 <Mu_> bit crap for a level 8 spell
14:32:33 <MarvinPA> it's pretty awful
14:33:57 <monky> get rid of static discharge; make chain lightning level 4 and move it from annihilations to air
14:34:16 <MarvinPA> haha
14:34:43 <Eronarn> i actually plan on doing a static discharge patch like... some time this week probably
14:34:53 <MarvinPA> what is your plan for it?
14:35:15 <Eronarn> my plan is to make it much more damaging; a touch atack; centered on the target you hit - but i'm open to other suggestions
14:35:40 <Eronarn> i don't like the 'it discharges when something hits you' suggestion fwiw
14:36:13 <MarvinPA> i think it'd be fine just as is, but with much higher damage and much lower self-damage
14:36:25 <MarvinPA> would it be a touch like confusing touch?
14:36:33 <Eronarn> yes but not stackable like it
14:37:10 <monky> you should explode when you try to stack
14:37:10 <MarvinPA> i can see it being sort of cool but swapping weapons and hitting stuff is a bit annoying, and i quite like that at the moment (in theory) it's most effective if you let yourself get surrounded so you have loads of arcs
14:37:10 <Mu_> make the damage go up the more targets are adjacent to you and reduce self-damage and it'd be fine
14:37:19 <TGWi> there is nothing wrong with static discharge except that it's terrible
14:37:21 <MarvinPA> right, what mu said
14:37:25 <TGWi> what mu said
14:37:50 <Eronarn> if by 'reduce' you mean 'reduce to 0' okay
14:37:52 <st_> chain lightning isn't awful, were you only using it on groups or something?
14:38:13 <Mu_> it rocks against single targets
14:38:31 <Mu_> i like any spell that quickly kills shadow dragons tbh
14:38:35 <TGWi> that seems wrong I think
14:38:38 <Mu_> yep
14:38:47 <st_> I killed the royal jelly with it in about 4/5 casts
14:38:54 <Eronarn> does it arc adn hit them multiple times or something
14:39:26 <Mu_> i think it bounces between you and your target
14:39:53 <MarvinPA> yeah
14:39:54 <st_> and with insulation it does basiaclly nothing to you
14:40:30 <MarvinPA> what other level 8 attack spells are there?
14:40:32 <MarvinPA> just lcs?
14:40:33 <TGWi> LCS
14:40:41 <Mu_> orb?
14:40:45 <MarvinPA> that's 7
14:40:45 <TGWi> iood is 7
14:41:02 <st_> besides ring of flames and dragon form I can't think of any other level 8s
14:41:06 <Mu_> guess that's all then
14:41:10 <MarvinPA> necromut
14:41:13 <MarvinPA> ddoor?
14:41:26 <st_> right yeah
14:41:38 <st_> borg should be 8 frankly
14:41:52 <MarvinPA> hah yeah, i think i actually saw that suggested on the wiki or mantis somewhere
14:42:00 <MarvinPA> swapping it with death channel or something
14:42:39 <Eronarn> imo make death channel L5, Hex/Nec
14:43:24 <TGWi> but but but it's a self-buff
14:43:37 <st_> it's should probably be higher than simulacrum considering they are perm and you can also create zombies/simulacra on the thing you channel
14:43:40 <MarvinPA> that's probably a bit low for something that gives you strongish perma-allies
14:44:25 <st_> but having it being castable before V:8 would be nice
14:45:13 <MarvinPA> oh damn i transferred my save
14:45:28 <st_> did tornado get a nerf?
14:45:37 <MarvinPA> now i have nerfed tornado, it might not let me walk through zigs without ever bothering to haste
14:45:44 <st_> whoops :)
14:45:48 <MarvinPA> yeah, it's level 9 and radius 5
14:45:54 <MarvinPA> still probably crazy powerful
14:46:17 <st_> if it still has the damage then yeah
14:46:34 <Eronarn> thought about borg: maybe it should use the felid extra life thing, but you have to cast it in advance
14:46:37 <st_> you guys have been ridiculous in the past week
14:46:52 <st_> the week of 1000000 zigs
14:47:05 <MarvinPA> seriously, you could literally cast nothing but tornado and walk from the entrance of the zig floor to the exit without stopping
14:47:28 <MarvinPA> i had to stop and think a couple of times on late angel and pan lord floors
14:47:38 <MarvinPA> but other than that every zig i've done this character has been effortless
14:48:18 <st_> is it actually that overpowered in normal levels considering you're almost always going to be near a bunch of walls?
14:48:31 <st_> only time I've seen it is in zigs
14:48:44 <MarvinPA> the damage is still pretty good in closed spaces
14:51:23 <st_> large radius damage over time while you can still do stuff is going to be great no matter what the damage is I suppose
14:51:29 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: you did stop on Pan lord floors?
14:51:56 <MarvinPA> on one of them at least
14:52:03 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: with radius 6, I at first stopped for mummy levels, but then just said "screw potions" and just went through
14:52:13 <st_> elliptic actually had to blink on a pan level
14:52:19 <MarvinPA> right, i had ash so i was just fine with tomb levels
14:53:08 <Eronarn> i wonder if shoals gives ashites bonus piety for levitating out to the open ocean
14:53:13 <kilobyte> there was only one slight problem in four Zigs: I as usually charged without haste or tornado, to not waste mana and to start it only when I touch the first line.  Of 20 pan lords.
14:53:18 <kilobyte> and one cast silence :p
14:53:25 <MarvinPA> :D
14:53:53 <Mu_> did you survive that
14:54:26 <kilobyte> yeah, but was down to 62 hp
14:54:28 <Ashenzari> Chain lightning ally warnings (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2852) by Mu
14:55:49 <kilobyte> I have this feeling that Tornado may still be a wee bit overpowered
14:56:09 <MarvinPA> i'll find another zig and see what happens :P
14:56:30 <kilobyte> the "charging mindlessly vs an all-pan-lord Zig" kind of overpowered
14:57:06 <felirx> pan lords with silence cheat
14:57:10 <felirx> they are immune to it themselves
14:57:26 <MarvinPA> that's the fun part :P
14:58:59 <st_> but should it be balanced for zigs?
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15:06:47 <st_> MarvinPA: are you wearing archmagi?
15:06:54 <MarvinPA> yup
15:07:06 <st_> impressive spell power list
15:07:07 <MarvinPA> may as well since i have the hat of the alchemist for resistances :P
15:11:37 <MarvinPA> damn, tornado going up a level means i can't fit in shatter+tornado+icestorm+necromut+borg
15:12:00 <kilobyte> wait, shatter AND tornado?
15:12:08 <MarvinPA> well once i reskill my earth magic up
15:12:26 <MarvinPA> but i want to try combining the two :P
15:14:12 <kilobyte> oh, and I gave CBL many chances
15:14:20 <kilobyte> verdict: it's totally, utterly useless
15:14:28 <st_> disagreed
15:14:52 <st_> use it in corridors
15:14:53 <kilobyte> in places where it works, just hitting people in melee has as good or better effect
15:14:59 <kilobyte> and anything tough it doesn't
15:15:20 <st_> I've killed stone giants with a single cast
15:15:45 <kilobyte> freezing cloud can do the same and is much more reliable
15:16:19 <st_> the cloud spells are some of the best conjurations
15:17:15 <st_> I'm not saying it's magnificent but I don't think it's terrible if you use it in certain ways
15:17:26 <st_> chain lightning is the same
15:18:49 <Eronarn> 'not terrible if you jump through hoops' isn't what crawl spells should be
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15:19:45 <st_> I like the fact the fact that air conj require special use to be effective
15:20:50 <Eronarn> it makes air conj very annoying to play
15:21:19 <MarvinPA> mm i just oneshotted a pan lord with chain lightning
15:21:29 <MarvinPA> but then all my skills are at 27 and i have 2 enhancers
15:25:02 <st_> only crazies play pure air conj
15:27:01 <Mu_> i just did air conj but still had poison arrow and freezing cloud
15:27:20 <Mu_> pure air would be awkward
15:40:39 <kilobyte> usually you do air+ice
15:41:04 <kilobyte> it's weird that there's no connection between air and fire, though
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15:43:28 <Eronarn> add more spells :D
15:45:20 <TGWi> add an air component to all fire spells
15:45:31 <TGWi> (for fuel)
15:53:56 <kilobyte> Firestorm should be a mostly air spell
15:54:23 <kilobyte> (if we care about theme, that is.  It's fire/conj for gameplay reasons)
15:56:13 <kilobyte> ice storm is a meteorological thing and thus has a good reason to be air but can in theory be produced by just dumping chunks of ice and snow from a height... but fire storm works differently
15:56:40 <kilobyte> it's a special kind of air circulation above a fire that makes fire spread
15:57:09 <TGWi> firestorms create their own wind though
15:57:13 <TGWi> you just need a big enough fire
15:58:49 <kilobyte> quoting a different wikipedia article, a firestorm generates a tornado
15:59:22 <kilobyte> so perhaps we should move Tornado to Fire then? :p
16:00:06 <kilobyte> TGWi: it's not merely a fire, it's a self-sustaining system.  The fire would be small without the wind system, the wind system is caused by the fire.
16:00:49 <MarvinPA> so if you cast tornado then firestorm you should just get a permanent aura of firestorm
16:00:58 <MarvinPA> :D
16:07:28 <kilobyte> currently Tornado doesn't destroy existing clouds but prevents adding new ones
16:07:35 <kilobyte> this should be changed
16:08:02 <kilobyte> mixing clouds is a good part, even if it lowers the effectiveness
16:08:37 <kilobyte> even if rotating monsters doesn't make it, "meteorological phenomena" monsters should be mixed this way, even if randomly
16:30:06 <Eronarn> ash tells about abyss/hell/etc. portals? that's phenomenally useless
16:32:40 <st_> not in pan
16:34:12 <Eronarn> st_: in the dungeon that just means from d~20 onwards i get the same message every time i enter a level
16:34:42 <MarvinPA> also it makes escaping hell easier, maybe
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17:13:43 <Eronarn> vaults with trees can show up in crypt :o
17:15:29 <kilobyte> !learn add cumulogranite Rock-filled clouds, an actual RL aviation term and the bestest word ever.  A mandatory Earth/Air lev9 spell.
17:15:41 <Henzell> cumulogranite[1/1]: Rock-filled clouds, an actual RL aviation term and the bestest word ever.  A mandatory Earth/Air lev9 spell.
17:16:19 <kilobyte> Eronarn: could you name the vault?
17:20:10 <Eronarn> is there a command to do that
17:21:19 <kilobyte> you can die inside the vault and check Henzell's report :p
17:21:43 <kilobyte> other options are searching .des files by hand, or looking at the save in debug mode
17:22:17 <Eronarn> it might be a layout rather than a vault, it's pretty generically tree-y
17:24:42 <kilobyte> yeah, looks like a layout
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17:37:25 <TGWi> kilobyte: what's the fire/ice spell?
17:43:59 <kilobyte> hard to come up with something... thermal shock?
17:44:12 <kilobyte> but that has nothing of the hawtness of cumulogranite
17:45:18 <TGWi> steam
17:45:28 <TGWi> or at least water
17:50:54 <sorear> blanch, temper
18:06:17 <Eronarn> oh neat
18:06:26 <Eronarn> liches will fire through other liches with OOD
18:08:33 <TGWi> I think grey drac should be changed or removed
18:08:52 <TGWi> their quirk is the complete absence of all draconian features
18:08:54 <monky> Eronarn: things will generally fire through other things with iood, and fire ioods into ioods
18:09:01 <monky> Eronarn: it's really stupid
18:09:29 <monky> by things I mean monsters
18:09:46 <Eronarn> TGWi: agree 110%
18:10:19 <TGWi> Eronarn: <3
18:10:36 <Eronarn> how to fix grey dracs:
18:10:38 <Eronarn> 1) remove unbreathing
18:10:46 <Eronarn> 2) make their aps be +fighting, +earth, -stealth
18:10:51 <TGWi> I could deal with "stealthy draconian" but no breath weapon and no resistance is like
18:10:52 <TGWi> really?
18:10:55 <Eronarn> 3) 'metallic grey' scales
18:10:58 <Eronarn> 4) splinter breath weapon
18:11:16 <TGWi> making them iron dragon analogues would help
18:11:34 <TGWi> it's weird that there's no earth draconian like there are fire/ice/air
18:13:11 <Eronarn> i really hate that this crypt layout will randomly have sections you need ctele to get into
18:14:05 <monky> quadcrypt_mu?
18:14:13 <Eronarn> that's probabl the one
18:18:23 <Mu_> the best crypt
18:19:47 <monky> too many secret doors :(
18:23:10 <Eronarn> the secret doors would be fine except for them having a chance to not spawn
18:40:29 <due> hiii
18:42:48 <Mu_> duey baby
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19:05:55 <Ashenzari> Incorrect message when stabbing a pan lord (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2853) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid
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19:24:55 <valrus> someone suggest me something from:
19:24:59 <valrus> ??valrus[8]
19:25:00 <Henzell> valrus[8/9]: Unwon races: Hu, DD, Ce, Mi, DG, Mu, Vp, Fe; classes Gl, Be, Pa, Re, Cr, Wr, Su, VM, St, As, Wn
19:25:56 <valrus> hmm, uh
19:25:58 <MarvinPA> FeBe or DDBe is easy
19:26:10 <MarvinPA> FeSu was fun
19:26:21 <MarvinPA> also wrong channel probably :P
19:26:24 <sorear> iron summoner
19:26:26 <valrus> !learn edit valrus[8] s/classes/classes He,/
19:26:27 <Henzell> valrus[8/9]: Unwon races: Hu, DD, Ce, Mi, DG, Mu, Vp, Fe; classes He, Gl, Be, Pa, Re, Cr, Wr, Su, VM, St, As, Wn
19:26:37 <valrus> MarvinPA: what do you mean
19:26:55 <MarvinPA> unless you want dev suggestions on what to play
19:27:03 <valrus> oh, shit
19:27:07 <MarvinPA> heh
19:27:51 <kilobyte> of course, HDTh
19:30:38 <due> HDTh would be my recommendation too.
19:32:08 <Eronarn> due: sky beast form: y/n?
19:32:20 <due> Eronarn: hm, dunno.
19:32:48 <Eronarn> i think flying+shock+flickering invisibility would be pretty cool; the rainclouds can just be left out
19:33:20 <Eronarn> and as was pointed out in the static discharge wiki page, there's no air/tmut spell
19:35:23 <kilobyte> Air Form...
19:35:59 <due> I prefer the soun dof Sky Form
19:36:52 <Eronarn> likewise
19:40:33 <Eronarn> @??ice beast
19:40:34 <Gretell> ice beast (16I) | Speed: 10 (swim: 110%) | HD: 5 | Health: 17-39 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 512(cold:5-14) | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(20), 12cold+++, 03poison, asphyx | Vul: 04fire | XP: 130.
19:40:35 <Eronarn> @??sky beast
19:40:35 <Gretell> sky beast (11I) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 17-39 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Damage: 511(elec:5-6) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(20), 11elec+++, asphyx | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 130.
19:40:50 <Eronarn> oh, asphyx resist too
19:40:53 <Eronarn> would work well with evap
19:42:08 <kilobyte> Eronarn: no, I meant the old Air Form
19:42:49 <Eronarn> oh, heh
19:42:53 <kilobyte> "Air Walk", level 9 Tmut/Air
19:42:55 <Eronarn> yes, that's too silly to live :P
19:43:37 <Eronarn> another air/tmut possibility: ignite air
19:44:10 <Eronarn> B - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand <-- acquired as a vampire :|
19:45:50 <kilobyte> contaminated blood can make you sick
19:46:06 <Eronarn> really? i don't think i've ever had that happen
19:46:39 <kilobyte> and humans have contaminated chunks/blood...
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19:48:08 <Eronarn> speaking of vampires, i think the blood mechanic could use a tweak: to make the level of blood you reach based on the source of the blood
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20:23:44 <TGWi> are there multiple types of blood?
20:23:57 <TGWi> either that's new (I haven't played vp in a while) or ur rong
20:24:10 <monky> there's coagulated and vanilla
20:24:15 <Kurper> ok this is a damn weird game
20:24:20 <Kurper> ive now found 4 armours with +int
20:24:23 <monky> I remember a bunch of fr/brs about poisonous blood; all rejected
20:24:26 <Kurper> all different slots, and im in lair 4
20:24:51 <TGWi> I'd actually like poisoned blood[
20:24:52 <Kurper> too bad one of them's a large shield
20:24:56 <TGWi> why wasn't that added?
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21:06:21 <Eronarn> TGWi: i mean clean blood, clean blood from potions, contaminated blood, coagulated, etc.
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22:34:21 <vimpulse> hi all.  When I press the letter 'e', Crawl 0.8.0-a0-2551-gb30346b doesn't list my potion of porridge on the list of foods I can eat.  Do you think it would be better or worse for Crawl to list porridge on both the 'q' and 'e' menus?
22:34:52 <Eronarn> better to remove porridge
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22:35:40 <vimpulse> Eronarn:  why?
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22:38:46 <Eronarn> vimpulse: it doesn't really add anything to the game imo
22:40:37 <vimpulse> Eronarn:  that makes sense.  It detracts from usability.  It should've been designed as a food, not a potion, but now that it's already a potion, it makes more sense to get rid of it.
22:40:37 <vimpulse> Should I mention your idea on Mantis, the brainstorm page, or neither?
22:42:16 <elliptic> porridge is cool, it is food that takes only one turn to eat
22:42:56 <vimpulse> elliptic:  it could be replaced with some other drinkable comestible which will be filed under Comestibles instead of under Potions.  :)
22:43:19 <elliptic> but it contributes to the potion identification subgame!
22:43:35 <elliptic> and also being a potion means it is much more vulnerable to destruction
22:43:41 <elliptic> which balances things out
22:44:09 <vimpulse> elliptic:  :)  but once you identify it, it detracts from usability.  And the fact that it's more destroyable doesn't make it worth it to leave in something so lacking in usability.
22:44:30 <elliptic> if it were regular food, it would be strictly better than any other food item for most races
22:44:37 <elliptic> how does it detract from usability
22:45:01 <elliptic> listing it on the e menu isn't a bad idea, though
22:49:08 <vimpulse> elliptic:  it detracts from usability because it isn't shown on the e menu.
22:49:08 <vimpulse> If it were shown on both the q and e menus it would be only a so-so solution to the problem.  It might make people think they have two potions of porridge when they only have one -- agree?
22:49:31 <elliptic> no
22:50:06 <elliptic> I don't see how "a potion of porridge" suggests that you might possibly have 2
22:51:44 <vimpulse> elliptic:  you might think you have two:  one that shows on the q menu and one on the e menu.
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23:25:28 <vimpulse> I guess for now I'll suggest that porridge be listed on both the 'q' and 'e' menus.  Should I mention the idea on Mantis, or on the brainstorm page, or neither?
23:28:26 <due> Not on mantis.
23:28:36 <due> Unless you're providing aa patch.
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23:33:14 <Eronarn> speaking of patch, someone try out octopodes!
23:33:17 <Eronarn> also recite!
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