00:19:31 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:20:22 the 'You learn the power of this rune' message should be changed 00:20:27 it confuses everyone the first time they get it 00:21:15 make it something like "Ashenzari approves of your discovery of the secrets of the %s rune" 00:32:41 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:08 -!- Noom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:58:42 !tell kilobyte Setting up pngcrush (1.6.7-1) ... 00:58:43 Napkin: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:58:43 Napkin: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 01:06:32 -!- MarvinPA|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:19 -!- MarvinPA|2 is now known as MarvinPA 01:29:18 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:34:48 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:26 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:34 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:32 -!- Finn has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:54 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:10 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 03:18:14 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2533-g3f5b08f 03:18:31 Napkin: no shit, it worked. I'll have to try harder next time :p 03:23:08 hrm, the binary installer on CDO has size of 9339109 -- while my builds have 9136475 before 8467416 after 03:34:00 the current version is 8470187 for me 03:34:36 comparing the CDO versions, the reduction works -- 10006290 before, 9339109 after 03:34:56 I wonder where that extra mega comes from 03:38:38 -falign-functions? 03:38:52 -m64? 03:39:46 hehe, kilobyte :) 03:39:50 I don't see either build using non-default options. 03:39:58 no special compile parameters used 03:41:54 from nsis' output, my payload is 24116186 bytes, yours 29040215 03:58:54 got it, you add the whole output of "git log" which is 5MB uncompressed 04:07:27 ah, yes, right 04:07:36 good catch - forgot about that 04:07:42 but worth it in my opinion 04:10:21 it might be good to cut it at merge-base with stable, but then, either way has its merits 04:11:24 unlike wasteful mode of image compression, it does bring something use 04:23:01 ja 04:23:07 sorry, yes 04:28:53 sometimes, random monsters have the "radiating silence" property. I guess it's a matter of bad support of uint64_t. Do we know exactly why and when it happens? 04:30:48 not quite... I don't recall seeing it for months, though. 04:31:06 I haven't seen it in a wihle myself either 04:31:34 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:22 well I see it from time to time when playing trunk locally under winxp 32 bits 04:36:29 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:44 I'll check if it also happen with 64 bits windows 04:47:17 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:03:02 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:27 why is cdo giving me unplayable lag right now 05:06:39 now that I've complained about it, it's stopped 05:07:49 hmm, potions of experience do nothing whe you're level 27... shouldn't they add some xp instead? 05:08:30 isn't that what the epxerience card does at XL27? 05:10:12 all it does is: mpr("A flood of memories washes over you."); 05:10:16 ah, card 05:10:43 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:17 due, pan lords with malign gateway can open multiple gateways, is that intended 05:11:36 the potion affects just your level, the card gives some xp for skills as well 05:11:52 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:00 Mu_: not at all 05:16:09 in fact, i hav eno idea how they could be opening multiple gateways. 05:16:19 the limit is on one single gateway per level 05:16:54 78 was doin a zig and a gateway was gettin opened every turn for a little while :P 05:17:08 pan has some weird thing where it boosts summon spells somehow 05:17:20 but I don't know if that is for zigs also 05:20:31 that's cool :) 05:41:44 when i do an arena fight with monsters casting malign gateway they only open one portal, so maybe it is a pan thing 05:42:59 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:41 beh, fighting ten orbs of fire at once leads to problems 05:43:56 ie, even hasted you can't read manuals fast enough and waste most exp :p 05:44:36 some could say something bad about overpoweredness, though :p 05:47:14 -!- Finn is now known as MadCoyote 06:03:08 "Really attack while unarmed?" 06:03:10 O RLY? 06:09:56 There is a stone staircase leading down here. 06:09:57 You sense the appearance of a powerful magical force which warps space. 06:09:57 Switching back to v - an ornate deck of war {drawn: 3}. 06:09:59 er??? 06:10:33 galehar: You reverted the "as big as an "? 06:10:44 yes 06:10:48 I am disappointed by this as it means that door mimics won't be describe as "as big as a door". 06:10:54 I put effort into those! 06:11:36 sorry about that, but it was quite unpopular. 06:11:46 every comment on the mantis was in favour of reverting 06:12:02 but we can make a special case for mimics if you want :) 06:12:17 Eh. 06:12:20 I disagree, I quite liked it. 06:12:32 And only one developer asides you actually responded. 06:12:48 OG17 just likes to whinge. 06:12:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:23 sorry for thinking information should be "useful" instead of "cute" 06:15:21 -!- OG17 was kicked from ##crawl-dev by due [Go complain in ##crawl then.] 06:15:32 so sue me, I'm in a bad mood :) 06:17:08 well, we can discuss it if you want, but it is probably just a matter of taste 06:17:26 There was the issue that an ogre being "as big as an ogre" was really lame 06:18:31 I can't really think of many instances where size is actually a relevant, non-cosmetic factor. 06:18:37 (Determiner of danger, damage, etc.) 06:18:46 I'm possibly wrong about that though. 06:19:15 er... in my current game, where does that silence come from? 06:19:16 It's not a massive issue, but it just amuses me because we had the exact same complaints about other things, like how the spell success scales weren't clear (very good, good, etc). 06:19:56 I think the only gameplay effect of size in trampling 06:20:16 but there are discussions on the wiki how to change that 06:20:20 Which is an attack effect as opposed something affected by size variables. 06:20:31 That's fine. 06:20:55 But I'm pretty sure that OG17 is the person who stipulated that monsters should be removed if the only differences they have to other monsters are flavour, background, etc. 06:21:02 so for now, yes it is just flavour 06:21:32 probably. I'm fine with having similar monster differing only by flavour 06:22:14 In my opinion, flavour is everything. Mechanics sometimes bring flavour, but if monsters are only distinguishable by mechanic... boring. 06:22:29 I agree 06:22:53 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:02 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:dpeg 06:23:16 dpeg has a user page? :o 06:23:19 how vain of him. 06:23:34 look at his priciples 06:23:56 realism != flavour 06:24:07 i'm not saying sacrifice interface for flavour 06:24:22 *g* that's mainly his notepad for arguments for open source development 06:24:34 bhaak: i've noticed. 06:24:54 st_: realism flavour is "we have fire, therefore we should be able to cook meat, therefore chunks shouldn't rot" 06:25:03 st_: or the ever-present "hey why doesn't my knife of dagger poison corpses!" 06:25:04 and don't be afraid to add ideas or comments by yourself 06:25:15 he says realism *or* flavour 06:25:29 i will poke him about it later. 06:25:47 but then, i still hold him accountable for ruining most of Aizul's flavour. 06:25:55 * due glares at de ploog. 06:25:59 *die ploog 06:26:11 die ploog, die? 06:26:15 are you learning german? 06:26:16 Die! Die! Die!! 06:26:17 hm, is die the german article? 06:26:26 bhaak: well, that and it's funny in some contexts 06:26:34 but "die ploog" would be jpeg 06:26:39 der ploog? 06:26:44 "console and tiles are equally important" 06:26:44 yes, that would be him 06:26:46 :( 06:27:37 !tell dpeg Your wiki page suggests that gameplay and interface are more important than realism OR flavour. I posit that flavour is just as important, if it is good flavour as opposed "realistic" flavour for realism's sake. 06:27:37 due: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 06:28:13 someone should make a realistic roguelike 06:28:18 I think that's exactly his stand 06:28:47 bhaak: yes, but he stipulates "realism OR flavour" without specifying what sort of flavour. 06:29:02 flavour gets lost over time, especially if you play the ASCII version. After a while, that @ or D is just an abstract danger 06:30:07 not in myopinion 06:30:26 the flavour should be good enough that it does't become abstracted 06:31:42 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:25 -!- Vandal| has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:50 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34:27 I don't know if flavour can be THAT good, that it doesn't get lost over time 06:36:10 maybe if monster and item flavour would be more dynamic than it is in the general roguelike 06:36:38 like NPC monsters with their personal AI module 06:40:21 well, we do have uniques and speech 06:49:23 Flavour text can be pretty awesome. One of the reasons I like IVAN is its flavour text 06:50:04 And the lousy flavour text is why I almost chucked Wesnoth after trying the recommended intro campaign 06:50:12 Wesnoth is... yeah. 06:50:18 HttT has *terrible* text 06:50:25 Rise of Wesnoth on the other hand, is awesome 06:50:31 we're talking ASCII roguelike. text is the only flavour there is. 07:32:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:40:49 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:10 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:12 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:35 Whenever I leave irc up, I inevitably have a page where someone used my name...and I can only wonder what learndb entry they queried that has it in there... 08:27:43 Qenlaull sneers, "I shall feast on thy sanity!" 08:27:47 over my what...? 08:41:14 who is Qenlaull? Maybe he drain int 10:09:34 ??combat 10:09:34 combat[1/1]: (3:26:11 PM) Cryp71c: Q: "how does combat work?" A: "Who knows, we avoid fight.cc" 10:12:18 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:19 Siber, yeah, that's one of them. There's a few with my name in them :) 10:15:21 -!- Vandal| has quit [] 10:16:35 from coding_conventions.txt 10:16:37 // - Member variables get a prefix. DB* m_db; 10:16:45 is this really necessary? 10:16:50 the m_ prefix 10:19:50 seems to be ignored most of the time 10:24:49 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:36 must have been written before there were good IDEs :) 10:51:03 Must have been written before there were coding conventions. 10:51:33 ok, thanks 10:51:36 and bye! 10:51:39 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:55:23 I disagree with the IDE argument, actually. 10:55:32 There are a lot of times when I read code not in an IDE. 10:55:44 e.g. via a commit email. 10:55:59 e.g. reading a patch directly 10:56:31 In code I'm not intimately familiar with, it's nice to be able to know what the side-effects of touching particular variables are. 10:57:04 ...without having to search for the context in which they were declared. 10:57:20 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:09 global variables should be marked, but not local variables 10:59:54 with instance variables it depends. 11:00:36 if there are that many that one could get confused, the code probably needs refactoring 11:24:58 mooorning 11:30:43 I've prefixed members as long as i can remember with m_ 11:44:26 due: what's Zin Bolt supposed to be? 11:45:15 oh wait, that's the bolt of light i guess 11:58:21 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:12 -!- casmith789 is now known as cas\unfoog 12:19:22 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:50 03dolorous * r7b5cdee4bde8 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Tweak punctuation. 12:19:54 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:01 03dolorous * r31c886ac3415 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Add missing blank line. 12:20:23 03dolorous * r59b3f4a3cf41 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abyss.cc effects.cc itemprop.cc): Use simple_god_message() in a few more places. 12:20:24 03dolorous * r205f7446be66 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Tweak wording. 12:20:25 03dolorous * r7f9c725802a5 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Add formatting fix. 12:41:45 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:23 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 13:23:07 holy word does ENCH_FEAR - but that never works on undead/demons, right? 13:43:56 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:04 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:43 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 14:02:08 ah hah, figured it out 14:02:17 it isn't calling ME_SCARE 14:02:34 of course, that leaves the question of whether holy word *should* make undead/demons flee 14:09:38 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:02 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:39 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:20 keskitalo added the welcome lines wiki page in the future? 14:17:26 "Added on 2010-07-22" 14:17:47 wrong month sorry I can't tell the date 14:17:54 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:14 -!- elliptic_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31:57 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:32 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 14:44:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:13 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:16 03galehar * r76f05665a933 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Column adjustement in the skill screen 14:53:02 hey 15:04:13 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:12:38 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:19 All monsters are radiating silence (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2846) by galehar 15:28:21 Ziggurats in Pan cannot be added to shopping list, but still prompt the player (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2847) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 15:33:38 galehar: could you say what is the version of your compiler? Perhaps this is the cause? 15:34:04 g++.exe (TDM-1 mingw32) 4.4.0 15:34:09 or platform... is that cygwin, msys or something else? 15:34:21 msys 15:36:09 I have added the result of msysinfo to the mantis 15:38:25 Mastered skills don't show full details on the reskill screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2848) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 15:57:06 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:50 this msys thingy is the pinnacle of slowness... :( 16:12:02 to install? 16:12:24 trying to update it 16:12:54 yes, it takes a long time to install the "netinstall" distrib 16:17:44 huh 16:24:35 * kilobyte meows at due. 16:24:57 due: could you tell us which monsters from the holyhaul are mostly complete? 16:25:18 ophanim, kinda 16:25:26 basically none, really. 16:44:45 -!- faktor4u has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:15 -!- faktor4u has left ##crawl-dev 16:53:08 there's a FR to add an item, a figurine of a "golden ziggurat" that can be found on Zig:27, does nothing, but counts as three urunes/nrunes for scoring purposes (but not for urune=x queries) 16:53:17 what do you guys think? 16:55:08 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:50 -!- MarvinPA|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:39 doesn't this mean highscores become a zig-grinding contest 17:01:58 -!- MarvinPA|2 is now known as MarvinPA 17:03:33 huh, i found a disconnected pan level 17:03:39 with no exits 17:03:50 (in the disconnected section) 17:04:03 I'd prefer evokable mini-zigs 17:04:24 pan scumming for zigs is incredibly dull 17:04:41 not with ash! 17:05:11 but yeah i'm currently scumming for gold, it kinda sucks 17:08:40 -!- Noom has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:51 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:28:46 MarvinPA: was it cut off by a vault? 17:29:09 I've seen one next to pan_disco_hall 17:29:32 (no Ash on that char anymore, but I have mapping 1 as a mutation) 17:38:01 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 17:42:50 i don't think it was, there were no vaults i recognised on the level 17:43:49 doesn't every pan level have a vault 17:47:27 right, it wasn't cut off by one of the normal pan lord vaults though 18:01:59 -!- cas\unfoog is now known as casmith789 18:02:13 what is with the unfoog thing 18:03:24 ??good_ideas[2] 18:03:24 I don't have a page labeled good_ideas[2] in my learndb. 18:03:27 haha 18:03:34 you did get annoyed by it 18:03:36 (: 18:04:11 casmith789: it was supposed to ping you every time someone looked at it 18:04:25 it didn't 18:45:18 A one-headed hydra 18:45:18 A great reptilian beast, distantly related to the dragon. It has many heads, 18:45:18 and the potential to grow many more! 18:45:44 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:21 03kilobyte * r1afb184b2dc9 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Fix the Damnation card not working outside the main dungeon. 18:49:53 would be cool if banishment and pan got changed to how it was proposed a while ago 18:50:26 yes, please :| 18:50:33 damnation cards working in pan means another you can't do the unique pan runes safely with nemelex now :( 18:50:38 means you can't* 18:50:41 banishing self out of zig: not cool 18:51:03 marvinpa: sure you can, just don't randomly draw from decks on unique levels 18:51:17 well ok yeah, but that's kinda lame 18:51:34 ??deck of oddities 18:51:34 deck of oddities[1/1]: Genie, Bargain, Wrath, Xom, Feast, Famine, Curse 18:51:37 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:42 oh ok damnation's not in oddities 18:51:49 you can't do it under nemelex wrath then 18:51:53 you could theoretically get banished by wrath or xom but... 18:52:07 can't do it under any other banishing wrath either 18:52:20 vehumet or lugonu (or sif's forced miscasts) 18:52:24 right 18:52:33 any others? 18:52:43 just don't cast any tloc spells other than apportation with sif 18:52:52 and no summons, but who cares about those :P 18:53:05 abjuration 18:53:37 okay, true, you have to sacrifice abjuration 18:53:50 banishment returning you to the level you were on (also zigs doing so) would still be really nice 18:54:47 yeah, that's more of a bugfix 18:55:48 Pan exit gates would have to be changed to spawn a lot more often, since searching for one is about same as looking for Zigs 18:56:10 yeah 18:58:06 could also do something like this: if you're banished, the part of the abyss you're in spawns portals back to where you were banished, but some percent of them are instead to places you weren't in (pan, hell) 19:00:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:09 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:54 so for recite, how's this sound as an effect list (weaker => stronger): vs. demons, very short confuse/temp-pacify => fear => holy word => pillar of salt 19:04:06 vs. impure, bleed/rot => zin corona / ignite unclean => pillar of salt 19:04:47 vs. heretics (like curernt recite): confuse/temp pacify => sleep/fear => paralyze/pacify 19:05:08 tempory pacification sounds like a weird effect 19:05:15 temporary* 19:05:16 esp. vs demons 19:05:51 demon pacification doesn't really make sense except for maybe elyvilon 19:05:54 vs. heretic priests: smite => struck mute (perma-silence) => struck mad/blind (perma-confuse) => struck dumb (perma-paralyze) 19:06:34 vs. chaotic: basically like vs. impure right now 19:06:56 MarvinPA: 'temporary pacification' just = temporarily neutral 19:07:23 in the case of demons, the message is something like 'regards you warily' 19:07:47 permaconfusion would be just as powerful as permaparalysis surely, for the most part 19:08:25 mostly, though the permaconfused ones can still hit you, move unpredictably, etc. 19:08:29 i'd just say have permaconfuse as the top effect, since all the others have 3 tiers too 19:08:31 i could move them around though 19:08:51 mechanically they all have 4 right now, though they don't have to 19:09:00 (success by <5, <10, <15, 15+ HD) 19:09:08 and maybe don't have the silence be permanent, that'd be really powerful too 19:09:29 even temporary silence on an individual priest would be a cool effect 19:09:38 hm, maybe bump permasilence up to the 10-14 success range 19:10:04 and permaparalyze/confuse to the 15+ 19:10:55 fwiw, the highest you can get on your HD check is 30 with max piety and max invo, so you'll never see the 15+ effect on anything with 15 or more HD 19:12:19 @? shadow fiend 19:12:20 Shadow Fiend (061) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 74-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Damage: 2513(drain), 1513(drain), 1513(drain) | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(312), 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 2773 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), b.draining (3d22), torment symbol, dispel undead (3d27), demon. 19:12:41 hmm, I thought those were 14 19:12:53 they have more powerful dispel than gloorx iirc 19:12:57 which is weird 19:13:08 @??greater mummy 19:13:08 greater mummy (16M) | Speed: 9 | HD: 15 | Health: 182-210 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Damage: 35 | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 7515 | Sp: demon, smiting (7-17), torment symbol, summon undead. 19:13:10 @??mummy priest 19:13:10 mummy priest (05M) | Speed: 8 | HD: 10 | Health: 54-75 | AC/EV: 8/7 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 1387 | Sp: demon, smiting (7-17), torment symbol, summon undead. 19:13:22 @??deep elf high priest 19:13:22 deep elf high priest (09e) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 38-60 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Damage: 14 | Flags: evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(88), 05hellfire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1044 | Sp: demon, hellfire burst (3d15), minor healing, smiting (7-17), animate dead. 19:13:38 these are the ones where recite would be pretty crazy against 19:13:46 but they're pretty evil, so that's also kind of okay 19:14:54 random pan lords have like 10+2d10 HD 19:15:16 hm, i don't think they can be classified as priests though, can they? 19:15:42 aren't demons categorically recite-vulnerable? 19:16:19 sorear: in new-recite, there are 5 kinds of recitation; most demons are only eligible for the anti-demon one, which is the weakest 19:17:14 although i guess if you have max piety and invo and run across a panlord you have a 1/6 * 1/10 * 1/10 * 9/10 chance of killing him outright 19:20:59 a 1 in 666 chance, how sinister 19:21:29 not quite, 9/10 is a simplification :( 19:21:39 :( 19:21:47 there's a coinflip() chance that nothing happens for each turn of the recite, and there's 3 or 4 turns 19:22:50 which reminds me, it's a bit weird right now 19:23:12 effects start happening as soon as you activate it, and then the delay starts 19:23:30 i think it should maybe do nothing the turn you activate it, and only trigger while you're delay-ing 19:25:15 would there be support for showing actual percentages for spell success? 19:25:45 there aren't any arbitrary units or anything, it's just a percentage 19:25:47 actual percents don't actually work that well 19:25:55 see: 99% vs. 99.5% 19:25:58 actual actual actual 19:26:13 it's pretty hard to tell, at a glance, that you're half as likely to fail at the second spell 19:26:20 nobody has ever cared about half a percentage point 19:26:26 see what i mean? 19:26:38 when you have a percentage point, half a percentage point is half of what you have 19:26:39 the miscast chance for both is "effectively zero" 19:26:45 esp. the chance of harmful miscasts 19:27:17 1/100 is noticeable 19:27:49 but heck, 98/99 if you prefer - 1/50 spells miscast vs. 1/100 19:28:43 and the adjective scale doesn't show that at all 19:29:07 percentages are better than whatever you're proposing because they're human-readable 19:29:14 yes, but i favor an adjective scale that goes like 100%, 99.5%, 99%, 98%, 95% 19:29:43 this is the same reason I don't like the new apts: people know how to do percents instantly, but not logarithms 19:29:46 even if it's "more intuitive" 19:29:51 people don't know how to do percents instantly 19:30:03 that is literally the opposite of the truth 19:30:14 they know how to approximate them 19:30:16 the best way to get people to understand numbers is to use natural frequencies 19:30:25 'you fail 1 out of 100 times' 19:31:09 how meaningful is "1 out of X times" when X is bigger than, like, 10 19:31:34 unless people have a clear concept of what it's like to try something a bunch of times 19:31:35 valrus: it's generally more meaningful than the percentage equivalent 19:31:55 your success rate is as big as a spriggan 19:32:00 lol 19:32:03 MarvinPA: <3 19:32:38 You are as likely to successfully cast this spell as you are to have your hunger satisfied by eating a choko. 19:33:07 http://journal.sjdm.org/8708/jdm8708.html - check out the graphs here 19:34:03 the y scale is percentages? what? 19:34:07 change to frequency please 19:37:00 it isn't a Big Deal anyhow, but there are definitely reasons to not use percentages 19:37:21 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:48:31 !tell galehar just destroyed two books trying to get rid of a spell -- the book is gone but the spell not 19:48:31 kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know. 19:49:06 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:51 kilobyte: interesting, forgetting spells by destroying books has worked fine for me 20:27:40 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:16 ok, code structure question. I have a duration that makes a noise when it times out, dependent on several factors, and I want to have a message when this occurs 20:39:03 but I want to have a separate function to decide on the message. should I put it in shout.cc? it will be called from main.cc but I don't want to clutter it up 20:39:49 misc.cc 20:40:27 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:08 huh, ok 20:42:15 :) 20:42:18 that would never have occurred to me, I'm glad I asked 21:05:48 hyperbolic (L27 HaCK) ASSERT(slot != NUM_MONSTER_SLOTS) in 'mon-act.cc' at line 1379 failed. (Zig:18) 21:06:28 !log . crash 21:06:28 Unknown selector: verb 21:06:39 !lm . crash -log 21:06:40 3. hyperbolic, XL27 HaCK, T:126146 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hyperbolic/crash-hyperbolic-20101119-030550.txt 21:06:50 huh? 21:07:05 You ran out of monsters *in a Zig*? 21:07:44 what? 21:08:05 I'm pretty sure that the num_slots assert is that it tried to create a new monster and ran out of slots for them. 21:08:27 a lot of the zig was dead already 21:08:39 Hm. 21:09:30 hyperbolic (L27 HaCK) ASSERT(slot != NUM_MONSTER_SLOTS) in 'mon-act.cc' at line 1379 failed. (Zig:18) 21:09:41 hm 21:11:42 hyperbolic (L27 HaCK) ASSERT(slot != NUM_MONSTER_SLOTS) in 'mon-act.cc' at line 1379 failed. (Zig:18) 21:50:00 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:13 i keep doing foo.bar() instead of foo->bar() 21:59:17 stupid java 22:00:20 both are viable in C++ 22:13:01 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:45 hmm, if i get a crash like: 22:19:47 ./crawl(_Z12AssertFailedPKcS0_ib+0xcd) [0x51999d]: AssertFailed(char const*, char const*, int, bool) 22:19:50 ./crawl(_Z11mons_shoutsib+0xce) [0x7b49de]: mons_shouts(int, bool) 22:19:56 in general is it the assert in that function, or in a function called by it? 22:25:22 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:53 -!- Guest15230 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:16 gdb is your friend 22:33:32 But you should be seeing "ASSERT() FAILED on line blah" at the topfo the crash report. 22:36:43 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:09 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest41718 22:42:26 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:26 -!- Guest41718 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:01 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 22:57:55 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:43 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:59:56 hm, i think this might be due to ugly things 23:02:46 nope, guess not 23:02:58 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:55 found the problem: dead monsters were trying to shout 23:18:50 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:55:22 heh 23:55:27 cool bug