00:16:41 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:02 -!- minced has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:12 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:25 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:33 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:24 -!- monky has quit [Quit: :(] 02:40:15 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:56 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:18 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:21 I noticed that most type casting done in crawl use the static_cast syntax. But for converting between a base type and an enum, traditional type casting works the same. Is there a reason to use the long and ugly static_cast syntax? 02:52:04 traditional type casting is hard to parse 02:52:20 both for the compiler and more importantly for my eyes 02:52:35 static_cast is an ordinary template function (syntactically) 02:53:54 ok 02:56:21 but it's ok to use the traditional syntax when it helps readability, then? (for example to avoid cumbersome line break) 03:00:36 -!- Guest32028 has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:00:37 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:02 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest78299 03:08:31 alternatively, we could just remove all the C++ features from the codebase 03:08:35 this would be an improvement 03:10:58 hellooo 03:11:39 don't we use a lot of C++? 03:12:39 -!- coolio_mc has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:46 well, there's a few classes... 03:13:59 quite a few, indeed. 03:14:01 hey coolio1 03:14:07 tile meister :) 03:14:26 coolio_mc, not sure it'smentioned, but we need a tile for sky beasts, kinda quetzacoatl-esque beasts slash chinese dragon 03:14:29 with wings! 03:23:20 kilobyte: mon-pick.cc: In function ‘int mons_dwarf_rare(int)’: 03:23:20 mon-pick.cc:1282: warning: ‘sharp_before’ may be used uninitialised in this function 03:23:24 mon-pick.cc:1205: warning: ‘rarity’ may be used uninitialised in this function 03:36:54 due: yeah, I still didn't purged away that stuff 03:37:16 okay 03:48:38 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:51 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:07 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:28 I think there might be a coatl tile in the nethack rltiles that could be used 04:49:56 03kilobyte * r6f2c9e570bb9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (traps.cc traps.h): Simplify, underline statics. 04:49:58 03kilobyte * rbaa7238a4041 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): Staticalize, remove cruft. 04:49:59 03kilobyte * r9d9b9e06a9de 10/crawl-ref/source/ (religion.cc religion.h): Remove some redundancy. 05:01:12 Here's the couatl tile from Nethack's rltiles http://angryhosting-east.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/3e/3eaf6713222c427a5669bd88aae10a7f4d0f2a41.png 05:12:58 right, but what would it be used for? 05:14:16 [11:14] <@due> coolio_mc, not sure it'smentioned, but we need a tile for sky beasts, kinda quetzacoatl-esque beasts slash chinese dragon 05:15:04 -!- blackflare2 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:30 ah ok... didn't get it 05:16:29 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:02:06 coolio_mc: That's almost perfect, actually. 06:24:19 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:43 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:34 ah, dpeg, hi 06:33:41 Hi! 06:33:41 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:33:54 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:42 and me! 06:34:44 !messages 06:34:44 (1/1) due said (21h 39m 59s ago): fix the broken stuff with feature mimics. 06:34:51 Mu_: hi bub 06:35:07 duey baby 06:35:33 !messages 06:35:34 (1/2) dpeg said (16h 14m 50s ago): Mantis 1806, 1835 can be closed. 06:35:36 !messages 06:35:36 (1/1) coolio_mc said (15h 28m 25s ago): 1806 1835 06:37:11 !seen coolio_mc 06:37:11 I last saw coolio_mc at Wed Oct 27 10:14:16 2010 UTC (1h 22m 55s ago) saying [11:14] <@due> coolio_mc, not sure itsmentioned, but we need a tile for sky beasts, kinda quetzacoatl-esque beasts slash chinese dragon on ##crawl-dev. 06:37:36 !tell coolio_mc Did you reply to Enne about the tiles license? 06:37:37 dpeg: OK, I'll let coolio_mc know. 06:38:27 due: it occurred to me that mimics might get the leech-type sticking. 06:40:36 I dumped most of the code I wrote for leech-type sticking. 06:47:25 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:31 dump == bad 06:49:34 * dpeg is sad 06:50:41 i know 06:50:46 but it was the worst way to go about it 06:51:01 due: what was the main problem? I can see two or more leeches sticking being difficult, but with one leech, moving should always be okay. 06:51:30 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:16 dpeg: method of movement wasn't really thebest. 06:58:59 -!- coolio has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:03 wb coolio 06:59:31 coolio, do you think you could draw me an open mouth tile with big teeth? Not a full tile, just an overlay... 07:00:24 what is the overlay for? 07:01:20 the door tile 07:01:23 the stair tile, etc 07:01:33 feature mimic ? 07:01:33 new mimics 07:01:36 cool 07:01:38 -!- coolio_mc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:01:38 -!- coolio is now known as coolio_mc 07:01:39 maybe two mirrored ones 07:01:54 but i can always make the mirror myself 07:02:35 I'll see if I can make one later 07:02:36 coolio_mc: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:02:41 !messages 07:02:41 (1/1) dpeg said (25m 4s ago): Did you reply to Enne about the tiles license? 07:03:03 dpeg, is this about the credits thing? if so, then yes 07:03:06 coolio_mc: <3 07:03:13 if it's something else, I don't remember 07:03:38 coolio_mc: we're relicensing crawl tiles from crawl's license to public domain 07:04:16 ok, yeah, I don't mind... I thought they were public domain already 07:07:56 Could you drop me or enne an email with that in it? 07:09:26 -!- coolio_mc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:55 due, are you going to take part in this year's nanowrimo? 07:11:32 Zaba: of course 07:11:45 i start monday 07:19:41 Zaba: you should do it! 07:19:46 I'm only aiming for 50k this year, but I'm enthused. 07:19:57 due, meh.. I don't think I'd manage. 07:38:08 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:52 :( 07:39:35 kilobyte: about mantis 2776 (crashes on startup with tiles) 07:39:39 c:\crawl\dat/des/branches/dwarf.des:719: bad spec: '= floor_sandstone' in '= floor_sandstone' 07:39:53 didn't you recently change the dwarf branch? 07:41:38 yeah... I see that the = glyph is troublesome 07:43:07 could you try moving all =s to the beginning of their glyph lists? 07:43:45 if that won't work, we'd have to hide them behind a layer of SUBSTs :( 07:43:58 Moving the equals first should do it. 07:44:01 I don't know anything about the syntax of this file :( 07:44:10 kilobyte: I'm just cmopiling tiles, I'll let you kkow. 07:46:43 due: cool, tiles are unusable over X forwarding with pings >1ms, and my devel box is far far away 07:48:24 we have played freaking quake over X forwarding 15 years ago, four IRIX machines with the game running on a Linux box three streets away... yet that's not enough for Crawl 07:48:49 I'm only in the S for a complete tiles wizard build though 07:49:06 quake for a gimmick, freeciv for a lot... and that _is_ freaking tiles 07:49:40 kilobyte: Crawl is bigger, better and slower! 07:50:21 -!- coolio_mc has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:51 you need an optimizing developer ;-) 07:51:30 no. We need a bigger boat 07:51:45 crawl is waterproof? 07:52:14 no, it's just a jaw's quote 07:52:20 dpeg is waterproof 07:52:53 * dpeg really is Noah. 07:53:21 kilobyte: = at the start of a declaration works for colour declarations 07:57:45 almost done on tiles compile yay! 07:58:28 dpeg: I know what to do with donations. SSD drives for all devs. Should speed up crawl's development quite a bit :) 07:58:42 SSD? 07:59:04 flash memory drive 07:59:08 fast 07:59:10 Solid state decide? 07:59:18 Ah. 07:59:28 10x the price, faster random reads, slower writes 07:59:31 lol @SSD 07:59:48 compiling Crawl is CPU bound, though 07:59:50 And much worse performance in the long run, from what I cantell 08:00:01 My issue is I'm compiling on a netbook 08:00:12 set up distcc 08:00:26 due: atom? well then, CPU bound, sure 08:00:35 Yeah 08:01:09 performance reduction over time has been solved with SSd 08:01:13 uh, then you would need to cross-compile when using distcc. that's quite a hassle 08:02:00 galehar: with Crawl's code size, you'd need to have like 256MB occupied 90% by Nokia's crap to be IO bound 08:03:01 any regular machine can keep both the sources and object files in RAM, so disk speeds don't matter 08:03:34 oh ok then 08:03:48 IT IS DONE 08:03:53 YAY! 08:04:42 hmm... distcc would be network bound, actually 08:04:50 due: ccache would be another option 08:04:53 well, is parallel compiling supported? I tried make -j 2 once and it failed, but I haven't looked into it. 08:05:07 galehar: ... 08:05:16 dual core 08:05:18 galehar: you mean you do not use -j? 08:05:40 well, as I said, I tried once... 08:05:53 ok, I'll try again then :) 08:05:54 could you tell me when? 08:06:07 kilobyte: what's the -j option to use on dis? 08:06:21 dpeg: number of parallel compile processes 08:06:35 in 0.5 it might possibly break, but I think it works well even in earlier versions 08:06:36 well, it couldn't be too long ago 08:07:03 but if it breaks, doesn't that mean the dependencies in the makefiles are wrong? 08:07:05 bhaak: I know. I use a machine kilobyte has access to, so he may be able to tell me the number. 08:07:12 dpeg: -j4, 4 cores and C++ takes a lot of CPU 08:07:27 bhaak: then we just conjure up neunon. 08:07:34 -j4 maxes out my i5 760 08:07:34 kilobyte: okay, will try. Thanks! 08:07:48 dpeg: for most C code, 5 or sometimes even 6 is better, but for Crawl, 4 is better by quite a margin 08:08:12 * dpeg has never used -j in the past. 08:08:45 just don't ever try -j without an argument with C++ 08:08:47 dpeg is old enough to have seen single-core cpu's with separate fpu units! 08:09:22 C++ compilation takes gobs of memory, it would make the machine swap like hell 08:09:31 should the mouth overlay have an outline? 08:09:52 coolio_mc: not sure... 08:09:58 can you do one with both? I'mn not sure how it's gona turn on 08:10:47 bhaak: yes! 386DX vs 386SX, right? 08:11:46 * kilobyte mumbles something about a 8087. 08:12:22 I went from amiga straight to 486 DX2 08:12:54 I'm crawling into bd 08:14:20 03due * rbbbd2e289926 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/dwarf.des: Fix =s in tile definitions. 08:14:21 03due * rc5ce31f87c83 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc directn.cc show.cc): More tweaks to how feature mimics are described. 08:14:33 dpeg: no, M68K all the way! 08:15:30 syllogism: 486 DX2 looks a bit early? When did you abandon ship? I had my A1200 in service till 99 when it was swapped with a linux pentium machine 08:16:09 bhaak: even today? 08:16:14 I had an amiga 500 and amiga gaming was already kind of dying early 90s 08:16:38 kilobyte: my palm is still running strong with an 68K cpu :-) 08:16:45 also civilization 1 required HD :P 08:16:56 bhaak: I kind of fell off my chair a week ago when they added m86k support to gcc4.X 08:17:50 syllogism: yeah, but I didn't play games a lot in the middle of the 90s and at the university they had Suns and the amiga was mainly used for doing homework programming 08:17:55 @due here's what I came up with http://phuzion.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/3a/3addd6e70202380c327d7299d7621e5b81efa51c.png 08:18:18 kilobyte: they are still used a lot in embedded devices 08:19:53 bhaak: yeah, the support in new toolchains is terrible, though 08:20:52 I think the glibc/gcc problem was that there wasn't support for threading, and glibc 2.5(?)+ won't even compile without that... and it hasn't been coded until very recently 08:21:29 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:29 ouch. gcc is a mess in general 08:35:22 Morning 08:37:18 Hi Cryp71c 08:51:35 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:41 -!- Wensley has left ##crawl-dev 08:55:26 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:19 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:50 Mouth overlay for mimics (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2777) by coolio 09:00:49 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:20 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:03 -!- upsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:23 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:43 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:23 -!- syllogism has quit [] 10:28:27 !tell due https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2777 10:28:28 coolio_mc: OK, I'll let due know. 10:28:31 -!- coolio_mc has left ##crawl-dev 10:32:58 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:48 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:33 -!- syllogism has quit [] 11:00:17 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:18 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:55 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:27 lots of quitting and joining over here 11:28:30 yeah 11:40:02 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:20 -!- minced has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:38 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:53 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:33 Hi. I'm trying to give a unique some new cantrip messages, but none of them actually get played back. 11:42:39 I mirrored Gastronok's cantrips but it doesn't work 11:50:14 ok, found the reason - gastronok has special code in mon-cast.cc 11:53:00 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:35 minced: Hi there 12:00:32 hi! 12:00:44 Don't have that long, unfortunately - what's up? 12:01:31 gotta run - message me - sorry 12:01:35 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:04:45 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:07 03dolorous * r2a2de7115d4c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h): Move monster invisibility enchantment handling into its own function. 12:11:10 03dolorous * rafd25d6ec4e2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 12:11:24 03dolorous * r43c94118268b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Fix Mantis 2770. 12:13:43 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:38 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:47 are you still there dpeg? 12:26:01 I have 5 more min now 12:32:30 yo minced (if you are still here) 12:32:47 hey 12:32:49 what's up? 12:32:59 I am here 12:33:04 oh hey dpeg 12:33:07 what's up? 12:33:16 nothing :) 12:33:30 minced: if you have new speech, send it over 12:33:34 don't forget! :) 12:34:05 speech? 12:34:36 btw I've been implementing Tukima for fun, but Due said there were actually some reservations about implementing her 12:34:58 Do you know what the reservations are? 12:37:57 not really 12:38:09 perhaps flavour + consistency? 12:38:32 we'd get unique proposals for Iskerendun, Maxwell etc. 12:39:49 Ozocubu 12:39:53 Iskerendun the Mystic 12:40:33 due had this cool idea of wizlabs 12:40:40 Iskenderun the Misspelled 12:41:01 Ozocubu the Refrigerated 12:41:02 where you can see how those guys live and work but not themselves 12:41:12 Cigotuvi's is my favorite 12:41:29 wizlabs are brilliant in general 12:41:43 not finished, some of them 12:41:44 would we also get a proposal for Death? :P 12:41:50 natural enough, of coure 12:41:58 minced: you could still give your mass tukima's dance spell to the "boss" of tukima's wizlab 12:42:04 -!- minced has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:43:23 if you kill Death, you become invincible (or become a felid, whichever is more overpowered) 12:45:23 no, even better, the boss of the Death lab is not Death himself, but a door mimic 12:45:28 Death's door 12:45:46 ;D 12:46:04 :( 12:46:26 Death's door cannot take damage, he can only be banished to the abyss 12:49:58 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:28 hi all 12:50:32 (again) 12:51:25 how long do you have? 12:52:28 8 minutes 12:53:15 have you seen my writeup on nome feedback yet? 12:53:22 yes, it looks amazing. 12:53:36 I haven't started coding yet though, been sidetracked on Tukima 12:53:44 no prob 12:53:53 we're not in any rush to get nomes done or anything 12:54:04 I greatly appreciate you going to the effort to convey that nomes are, in fact, balanceable 12:54:21 I really think that they are. and more than that, I think they have the potential to be really fun and different 12:54:37 I have more ideas for nerfs too, if some are required ;) 12:55:05 nerfs all around! 12:55:08 such as, perhaps, slow healing 1 while within walls 12:55:32 as it happens, I'm just reading the Nomes page 13:01:02 I think this might have a potential as a race that is *made* to run away, with the understanding that you cannot progress in the game simply by running away and must rather use your escape abilities wisely to choose your battles (and learn to physically dread open/metal levels) 13:03:19 besides spriggans, crawl doesn't really have another race whose thesis is "escaping from bad situations", and nomes have a mechanic that is completely unlike spriggans (although in some ways more powerful), but should be more likely to have to utilize their escape mechanism due to being less stealthy/stabby 13:05:56 centaurs? 13:06:50 There are two issues we have to overcome: (1) Will players lure monsters all around? (2) Will there be actual choices (i.e. is rock always better than open air)? 13:07:14 I believe the species has potential, obviously. 13:08:40 I don't believe that rock should always be better than open air, although it should offer unique benefits that players will utilize. on metal levels and swamp, rock won't even be an option 13:09:15 btw, what are Gnomes eating? 13:09:22 swamp has rock surrounding the whole level 13:09:37 -!- minced has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:09:37 Zannick: permarock is impassible 13:09:42 ah 13:09:54 so the orb chamber will also be particularly hard 13:10:03 at least compared to much of the previous game 13:10:19 There is the question of how many bonuses the species should get inside walls... 13:10:30 it has a number, and still more are proposed 13:10:59 I have a table listed on the wiki of suggestions, it can be pared down if required 13:11:18 OT: To show how dedicated I am... just listening to discography of band Chainsaw To The Face. And lo and behold, title #11 is called "Crawl" :) 13:11:26 haha 13:11:38 but also because of that band's name 13:12:12 A completely normal name, given the genre :) 13:13:04 unfortunately, the CD has no lyrics 13:13:36 they are not on youtube, the only video I can find of "chainsaw to the face" is just a magic act with a chainsaw 13:14:03 youtube :P 13:14:30 youtube has a surprising amount of illicit music, I can usually find whatever I look for 13:14:59 anyway, what do you think are the most important bonuses/maluses for swimming in rock? 13:15:37 speed is a good one 13:15:54 both actions and movement slowed? 13:16:23 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:46 it could go either way: slow in open space, normal in rock. Or slow in rock, even slower in open space (if we have bigger bonuses for rock). Also normal in open space, slower in rock. :) 13:16:53 All of these will be strong and meaningful. 13:17:09 There is the question if we want to force players to leave rock from time to time. 13:17:16 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:21 Which is why I asked what they're eating. 13:17:40 according to my proposal, they couldn't eat in rock at all 13:17:53 I haven't given any thought to their diet 13:17:58 Wensley: and they have to eat normal stuff? 13:18:17 One idea I had was to make them more hungry in rock (with a normal diet otherwise). 13:18:57 that's one idea I think we had days before the conversation that spawned the wiki suggestions, I do like that idea 13:19:18 so rock would be your little heaven, it's just so damn costly food-wise 13:19:48 and since tmut spells can't be cast in rock there's no recourse to lichform 13:19:56 ah, nice 13:20:34 the current proposal just slaps way too many different things together, imo 13:20:46 like UC bonus for being in earth :) 13:21:03 stone fists! :) but yeah, I kind of threw everything at it to see what would stick 13:21:18 that is my general approach, I like presenting all the options 13:21:55 but I do feel that the section on "essential changes" are mostly needed, although not perhaps all of them depending on what playtesting reveals 13:22:20 We agree on: Gnomes (I won't write Nomes :) can walk in rock; they cannot walk through rock freely (whether they can only cross .#. walls or also .##. remains to be seen). 13:23:20 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:02 From there on, a lot can be done... 13:25:01 my biggest fear was that people would not take this race seriously and immediately dismiss it, as were the first reactions to the race that I observed 13:25:38 but some of the ideas, such as no swimming in metal, are both good nerfs and create interesting decisions for the player 13:25:40 Wensley: that's normal. Were you around when I suggested deep dwarves? 13:25:47 nope, I am a newbie 13:26:11 Wensley: all radical ideas cause reactions like that :) 13:26:34 "Won't fit", "won't work" or "will be boring". At least you'll get "It'll be broken!" 13:28:36 my experience playing deep dwarves was actually what first showed me that races could have really interesting differences... after playing nothing but hundreds of hill orcs and demonspawn (which were also really fun!) I was amazed the first time I played a deep dwarf and saw how different the game could be 13:28:48 :) 13:29:13 Generally, I found it best to use _one_ big change. 13:29:35 Admittedly, Vampires are more complicated, but the basic idea is still simple: to move between life and (un)death. 13:30:14 So for Gnomes, the question is how we want players to use the rock and what's the price to pay. 13:30:29 Few, simple pros and cons are better than many, muddled ones. 13:31:18 I could lose unarmed bonus easily 13:33:13 the ac bonus should stay, and I like the idea of g-nomes being a slow, heavily armored small race (to contrast spriggans as the fast, dodgy small race) 13:33:25 yes, that sounds good to me 13:33:35 I also like the idea of a second slow species. 13:34:18 There is one other bit: if we make them too bad in open space, gameplay will suffer (open levels are unavoidable). 13:35:11 Are we calling them Nomes or Gnomes? 13:35:28 it could be okay if we encourage g-nomes to preserve their potions, wands, scrolls and such specifically so that they can handle open levels, which should be a large resource drain for them 13:35:28 The former seems less confusing since we've had "Gnomes" before as an actual race. 13:35:43 Nohms 13:36:09 we could have a completely different name, too 13:36:12 How about Ohms for their elecrical-counterpart. 13:36:22 They can store electricity and shoot it back out. 13:36:26 :P 13:36:29 can travel through air 13:36:34 but i don't see a reason why "Gnomes" would be out just because we used to have such a race before 13:36:37 they could have a completely different name, although gnomes have since time immemorial been "creatures that swim through rock" 13:36:38 What's wrong with Gnomes? 13:36:43 (except in henzell/sequell info) 13:36:47 We had them, and now they're back :) 13:36:53 !lg * gn 13:36:57 3547. Zardoz the Charm-Maker (L1 GnEn), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) on D:2 on 2010-03-01, with 18 points after 22 turns and 0:01:06. 13:37:13 !lg * gn s=cv 13:37:14 3547 games for * (gn): 1824x 0.4, 779x 0.3, 640x 0.2, 195x 0.1, 75x 0.5-a, 34x 0.4-a 13:37:26 it could confuse sequell stats a bit, but we could just use a different abbreviation 13:37:37 Gm instead of Gn 13:37:41 or some such 13:37:58 GmEn 13:39:26 GmEE is more like it 13:40:25 g-men 13:40:41 and g-mam 13:41:18 they'd both be race=gnome though 13:41:29 right, i was about to say 13:41:33 how about differentiating between them with cv 13:41:40 Wensley: the page is long, so I'll reply later. 13:41:43 just an extra parameter 13:41:45 no prob :) 13:41:58 monky: as long as people remember to use it 13:42:12 Wensley: this can surely work out. Think of simple == good. 13:42:19 cats can eat cheese now? 13:42:21 will do 13:42:30 do they get indigestion afterward? 13:42:33 casmith789: apparently cheese isn't a vegetable 13:42:45 Players don't want to look up spoilers to know whether the damage bonus in rock will outweigh the speed malus (just an example). 13:43:23 If there are simple rules "melee in open space, casting in rock", that's better (again, just a quick example). 13:44:10 on nomes and UC, why do they have +1 13:44:54 because they are still in the very early stages 13:45:00 that's probably going to go 13:45:06 yes, don't get fixated too much on numbers 13:45:14 numbers are easy to change, concepts not so much 13:45:14 well it's also in the "Secondary changes" section 13:45:26 like it was taken down to 0 then bumped back up 13:45:29 I was going to change that immediately, in fact 13:45:32 aha 13:45:35 :P 13:45:40 dpeg: one thought of mine was that they simply get statue form - the same as the current spell - while in rock, rather than a unique array of one-off bonuses 13:45:44 dpeg, re gnomes vs nomes, it can be misleading to players when you have a race with a name they're familiar with, but functions nothing like the race they're imagining. Its like having "Halflings" actually be large half human, half giant creatures. 13:45:56 anyway, dpeg: I'll make some minor changes to the page in anticipation of your comments later 13:46:30 dpeg, add into the equation that we've actually had a race "Gnome" before which was comparable to the "Gnome" that players are familiar with from fantasy lore. 13:46:49 Wensley: cool 13:47:05 With those things stacking against using "Gnomes" and the availability for us to make up a name for this new race, why wouldn't we, instead of trying to combat the misconceptions of players on the racial name of "Gnomes" 13:47:11 Cryp71c: names are not really important, but the wiki advocates "nomes" which, as kilobyte pointed out, should be "gnomes". 13:47:16 Nomes => Tunnel Gnomes 13:47:26 Tunnel Elves 13:47:30 no more elves 13:47:54 I would never worry so much about old players... many of them are veterans, so they'll understand quickly what's going on. And new players won't care at all. 13:48:10 is it a possibility to rename the existing gnome race? 13:48:20 only when they're accessing records via sequell and wondering why there's a five-version gap :P 13:48:30 rename them to Garden Gnomes 13:48:35 thus freeing up Gnomes 13:48:54 dpeg, eh, I don't understand this adherence to 'Gnomes' when there's nothing tying us to it, but whatever. 13:48:57 and a nice little perk to people who won with a garden gnome :D 13:49:03 Cryp71c: the use of "nomes" is! 13:49:07 an adjective could work well, deep gnomes, stone gnomes, etc. 13:49:11 dpeg, the use of nomes is what? 13:49:29 forcing me to state that I'll say "gnomes" meanwhile 13:49:31 Wensley: rock gnomes 13:49:44 dpeg, the only thing "Nomes" is tying us to is "Nomes" the fact that its a homophone to "Gnomes" isnt really significant. 13:49:48 they get bonuses to rocking out, and a better axe aprt 13:49:51 *apt 13:49:51 they ride rock worms into combat 13:49:57 Eronarn, tremors. 13:50:02 er, Grabboids 13:50:09 whatever their proper name is. 13:50:12 heh 13:50:24 we could go for rhyming of course 13:50:25 Loam Gnomes 13:50:28 lol 13:50:32 foam 13:50:42 foam nomes 13:51:24 also, wrt gnomes: I really think being able to go freely through rock walls is doable 13:51:57 it also alleviates a ton of interface weirdness with figuring out whether you can pass through a given wall or not 14:28:35 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 14:29:49 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:56:56 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:08:03 interesting design decision; the whole of crypt 5 has open doors instead of secret doors? cool 15:08:22 is this the same with other vaults? 15:09:51 sounds more like noise woke up the stuff behinds doors 15:11:59 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 15:14:17 yeah, remember the noise changes mean that stuff wakes up in crypt very easily 15:16:18 ah 15:19:20 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:21 what is the loudest spell there is? 15:31:45 Shatter, I think 15:34:13 meph 15:34:20 (if not it hasn't been nerfed enough) 15:35:03 firestorm/icestorm aren't louder? 15:35:07 they make a god-aweful racket. 15:36:36 shatter makes a god-awful racket too 15:36:53 projected noise? 15:54:26 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:34 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:51 what are all of the new mimics? shop, door, ...? 16:12:31 feature 16:12:42 which i assume is fountain? 16:12:45 stair, portal 16:12:50 ah 16:12:55 portal mimics, wow :) mean 16:13:12 do they also make the "there is a portal on this level" message? :) 16:13:27 cause that would be mean. 16:13:50 they don't 16:14:30 sewer portal on d:13 is pretty obvious 16:15:10 oh, i was thinking more like labyrinth/bazaar 16:15:30 they can be those too 16:15:40 yes 16:16:19 are trap mimics hidden until you stumble into them? 16:16:30 that would be the dumbest thing 16:16:45 but I hope so 16:16:52 I think both times I've seen them it was autoexplore so I don't know 16:17:01 haha 16:17:32 Wait, $name, do you really want to step there? The blade trap hits you! 16:17:48 someone should let normal mimics chase you, too 16:18:00 you should be able to disable trap mimics with T&D skill 16:23:37 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:00 and do door mimics block los like regular doors? 16:32:31 if they're closed, i'd imagine 16:32:37 03galehar * re30bbf329797 10/crawl-ref/source/ (30 files): Replace int by skill_type whenever possible 16:33:36 int has been removed from the game 16:33:56 integer, not intelligence! 16:34:49 that was clearly a feature request :P 16:38:37 str, dex, and skill_type 16:41:50 nht (L14 FeTm) (D:5) 16:43:01 nht (L14 FeTm) (Lair:1) 16:44:44 ...are those crash reports? 16:45:33 yep 16:46:57 they seem truncated 16:47:39 it's not an assertion failure 16:48:03 for crashes, that's all you get from Gretell 16:51:00 nht (L14 FeTm) (D:8) 16:59:36 nht (L14 FeTm) (D:6) 17:02:31 do crashes count towards felid's lives? :) 17:03:47 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.11/20101012113537]] 17:14:25 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:20 nht (L15 FeTm) (Lair:8) 17:33:48 hang on what 17:33:57 he was on d:15 17:42:13 nht (L15 FeTm) (Shoals:5) 17:43:49 nht (L15 FeTm) (D:2) 17:44:40 D:2 is not in hive, last I checked 17:44:43 either these are delayed, or the place is wrong 17:57:55 Tukima (unique) patch (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2778) by minced 17:58:09 when monsters cast shadow creatures they don't seem to draw from the level's random monster list like the player does, is that right? it would be nice if they did. 17:58:52 oh wait, yes they do, whew 17:58:57 i just did something wrong 17:59:13 nht (L15 FeTm) (D:1) 17:59:34 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:47 i might have made the most annoying vault, possibly ever. you'll be pleased to hear it's a wizlab. 18:00:26 what is the name of it? 18:00:45 it's another made up wizard 18:01:53 mm need a golubria wizlab 18:01:56 all wizards are made up 18:02:15 I also sort of feel like bringing back borgnjor's mortuary, but with less miasma vampire knights 18:02:41 i have a cool gimmick in mind for an ozo wizlab, i keep forgetting to do it 18:02:59 periodic refrigeration? 18:03:36 that wouldn't be very creative now would it 18:03:46 :( 18:04:00 vampire knights with refrigeration spell 18:04:18 ozo lives in the arctic? 18:04:37 no...that doesn't work 18:06:18 sticky flames everywhere? 18:06:38 and then as soon as you put on two rings of fire they shoot icicles at you 18:07:55 simulacrum dispensers 18:09:46 floor is so icy you can only move in straight lines until you hit an obstacle or nonicy surface 18:18:08 Zannick: did you know there is a floor like that in ADOM 18:18:26 there are floors like that in many games, not even just roguelikes 18:18:49 the adom floor isn't actually like that 18:18:55 :( 18:19:03 really? 18:19:07 how does it differ? 18:20:21 in the icy floor level in adom, you can't move at all normally... to move in a given direction, you have to throw something in the opposite direction 18:20:43 and then you slide a ways, but not necessarily until you hit a wall 18:21:22 oh, right 18:28:05 Fix for Jiyva off level eating crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2779) by 78291 18:51:53 03N78291 * rcfc256c473bb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godpassive.cc godpassive.h mon-act.cc): Fix Jiyva off level eating crash. 18:52:13 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 19:01:18 hi 19:01:18 due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:01:22 !messages 19:01:22 (1/2) coolio_mc said (8h 32m 55s ago): https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2777 19:01:25 !messages 19:01:25 (1/1) Mu_ said (1h 26m 16s ago): door mimics own!! shop mimics own!! everything owns!! 19:01:31 :> 19:01:42 due 19:01:49 i send you this file, in order to have your advice 19:02:00 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:08 yo due, a question came up earlier. are trap mimics hidden like normal traps? because that would be stupid and wonderful at the same time 19:02:39 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:41 Wensley: no, not hidden 19:03:47 theycan be though, I suppose 19:04:01 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:03 due: I noticed earlier today that you can tell whether a portal is a mimic or not if you autoexplore into view of it, because mimics don't cause the usual message 19:04:05 Mu_: yes, i saw it, will reply 19:04:12 elliptic: yeah. 19:04:33 elliptic: they're not *that* good mimics ;) 19:04:55 so portal mimics don't announce their presence on the level? :P 19:05:19 still seems like autoexplore shouldn't give you help though? 19:05:37 What's the usual message? 19:05:54 that might be an oversight on my part 19:06:36 I'm still fixing up issues 19:07:00 I think someone also asked earlier if normal mimics could give chase as well 19:07:01 I don't remember exactly... something announcing that you see a labyrinth or whatever 19:07:06 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:35 normal mimics chasing you would be confusing when compared with dancing weapons 19:08:31 elliptic: make normal mimics just flop along the ground and give messages to that effect 19:10:07 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:09 great idea: make mimics have a paralyzing melee attack!! 19:10:23 did... that actually get implemented? 19:12:14 hilarious 19:12:56 Eronarn: btw, I implemented your idea of giving Tukima a music-based attack 19:13:08 her cantrip gets annoying music stuck in your head. 19:13:26 what else does she do? 19:13:49 minced: did you hear my idea for the singing sword? 19:15:31 Eronarn: no 19:15:56 Wensley: comes with a couple dancing weapons and can re-animate them when they die 19:16:09 minced: i think it should have an evil twin blade: Earworm. 19:17:25 does it perform rick astley music? 19:18:00 and worse. 19:18:01 earworm 19:18:02 lol 19:18:54 brb day is crazy (Tukima patch was submitted 1 hour ago btw) 19:19:09 -!- minced has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:23 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:52 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:08 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:40 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:11 -!- blackflare2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:54 -!- blackflare has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:54 -!- enne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:44 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:30:42 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:59 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:24 -!- Finn has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:17 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:44 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:35:26 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:27 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:49:35 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:14 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:27 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:13 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:54:17 Unusual message after falling down a shaft trap (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2780) by Pseudonut 21:58:59 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:59 -!- Finn is now known as MadCoyote 22:38:12 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:47:36 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:21 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2231-gcfc256c 23:33:35 what is a "natural" monster? 23:34:10 lys: Something that is alive and not demonic. 23:34:21 Animals, humans, humanoids,etc 23:34:26 right 23:34:27 cheers 23:51:36 but what about plants!!1 23:54:51 They're natural. 23:55:05 Well, kinda. 23:57:21 don't plants have their own holiness 23:57:59 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:58:00 @??oklob 23:58:00 unknown monster: "oklob" 23:58:02 @??oklob plant 23:58:02 oklob plant (09P) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 39-71 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++ | XP: 557 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5). 23:58:10 ^^ 23:58:22 well we know that there are demonic plants 23:59:05 aren't demonic plants vault monsters 23:59:17 yes 23:59:27 i don't even think they do anything, do they