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06:20:45 <Ashenzari> Crashes when in confusing cloud as ashenzari worshipper (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2767) by silwyr
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06:45:53 <Ashenzari> Spirit tile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2768) by coolio
06:53:16 <CIA-39> 03kilobyte * rfb357305246d 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix a non-up-to-date case of code duplication that causes crashes.
06:53:18 <CIA-39> 03kilobyte * r039bd4377ccb 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Simplify a case of contrived logic.
07:16:04 <Ashenzari> Geryon tile edit (now with three heads!) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2769) by coolio
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07:21:37 <Gretell> Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2211-g039bd43
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07:43:11 <kilobyte> would it be a good idea to make Spider Form vulnerable to poison (but not negating rPois)?
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08:04:27 <galehar> Well, the goal is to have spider form as close to spider monsters as possible, right? so I'd say yes.
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08:38:07 <Cryp71c> Morning
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08:54:39 <due> Bah.
08:54:44 <due> !tell due fix the broken stuff with feature mimics.
08:54:45 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let due know.
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09:24:53 <galehar> is there a policy for using user-defined enum in function parameters versus int?
09:25:11 <galehar> because we use both, and have to juggle with static_cast
09:29:45 <kilobyte> usually it's because everything was ints before
09:30:19 <galehar> so we should change to enum when possible?
09:30:42 <Zaba> I think that's the idea
09:30:47 <galehar> but we can't use them for function return I think
09:30:55 <Zaba> why not?
09:31:06 <galehar> compiler disagree
09:31:24 <kilobyte> uhm, we return them in most places
09:31:42 <kilobyte> could you mention what goes wrong?
09:31:44 <galehar> I have to test this again then
09:33:53 <galehar> indeed, we use enum in return many times
09:34:44 <galehar> once, the compiler threw me a message about a function returning a user defined type, but I must have read it wrong
09:53:01 <galehar> ok, trying to change a few int declaration to enum and I get this: error: no 'operator++(int)' declared for postfix '++'
09:53:10 <galehar> should we declare the operator?
09:53:18 <galehar> do we have to do it for each enum?
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10:10:04 <galehar> solved it. kept the iterator as an int, and do this: skill_type sk = skill_type(i); at the beginning of each loop
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11:19:32 <dpeg> hi
11:19:32 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
11:19:45 <galehar> hi
11:19:52 <dpeg> count 'em, four tonight
11:19:58 <dpeg> !messages
11:19:58 <Henzell> (1/4) rkd said (2w 5d 2h 45m 49s ago): https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2684
11:20:38 <dpeg> !tell rkd Assigned to myself. Sorry for late reply. I will look into this.
11:20:38 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let rkd know.
11:20:41 <dpeg> !messages
11:20:41 <Henzell> (1/3) kilobyte said (2w 1d 3h 35m 2s ago): I tested Ashenzari a bit, and I'm afraid he's really, really underwhelming.  The only useful things are antennae, the rest is hardly relevant.  Even for a stalker.
11:20:46 <dpeg> !messages
11:20:46 <Henzell> (1/2) Cryp71c said (22h 12m 54s ago): I've addressed one aspect of mutation scheduling...now the order that mutations occur in will be more reflective of that level of the facet's power (eg, Fire I and II are tier3, but the "Throw Flames" mutation should be fairly order in the list of mutations)
11:20:57 <dpeg> !messages
11:20:57 <Henzell> (1/1) Cryp71c said (22h 10m 30s ago): These changes affect only the order in which mutations are gained, and not the schedule (at what specific level the mutations are gained).
11:21:48 <Cryp71c> Hello
11:21:52 <dpeg> ah. hi
11:21:55 <dpeg> just typing a reply
11:22:21 <dpeg> Cryp71c: we made the Ice and Fire facets in such a way that after the first mutation you won't know the final mutation. Is that property preserved?
11:23:03 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yes
11:23:40 <dpeg> it just means that the level 2 mutations appear later (on average)?
11:24:02 <Cryp71c> dpeg, at the moment, yes, it can.
11:24:25 <dpeg> sounds okay to me
11:24:34 <Cryp71c> dpeg, the only facets that have changed as far as the ordering goes are Fire I and II, and Magic Resistance.
11:25:01 <Cryp71c> If you have the MR facet, even though the entire facet is tier2, you'll get magic resistance 1 as if it were a tier1 mutation (so it will be slightly earlier).
11:25:11 <Cryp71c> Same thing for fire I and fire II, throw flames will be gotten earlier.
11:25:16 <dpeg> okay
11:25:41 <Cryp71c> Since throw flames at xl 22 is both aggrivating, and pointless.
11:25:57 <dpeg> yes, I agree
11:26:05 <dpeg> we want that early
11:26:17 <dpeg> my DS got it early btw, and it is what's keeping him alive
11:26:23 <dpeg> @?whereis Infest
11:26:23 <Gretell> unknown monster: "whereis Infest"
11:26:27 <dpeg> ??whereis Infest
11:26:27 <Henzell> I don't have a page labeled whereis_infest in my learndb.
11:26:34 <dpeg> grrr :)
11:26:35 <Cryp71c> dpeg, when did you start that?
11:26:38 <Cryp71c> that DS*
11:26:57 <dpeg> some days ago... not saying that your change was effective back then
11:27:10 <dpeg> just that I got fire breath early enough to be really useful
11:27:15 <Cryp71c> yeah, its not even on trunk actually.
11:27:19 <Cryp71c> and if its the breath weapon, that's a tier1
11:27:21 <dpeg> ah, no, it was today tho
11:27:24 <Cryp71c> so yeah...its always gotten earlier.
11:30:09 <Cryp71c> dpeg, sometimes I wish DS got MORE mutations.
11:32:06 <dpeg> Cryp71c: sure, but I think it's decent now
11:32:31 <dpeg> remember that in olden times you got something at fewer level ups
11:33:14 <Cryp71c> with 26 levels to gain and only 6 mutations, each with 3 facets, thats 18 mutations.
11:33:27 <Cryp71c> And its always super cool to gain multiple mutations on the same level gain.
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11:33:43 <Cryp71c> Say that happens 3 times total, that means there are 11 levels that nothing interesting is happening
11:33:44 <Cryp71c> Which isn't bad.
11:34:26 <dpeg> not so bad, no
11:34:41 <dpeg> and much better than before, when you got exactly six presents
11:35:04 <dpeg> perhaps DS mutations should set in a bit later
11:38:12 <Cryp71c> dpeg, the early game is the hard part for DS.
11:38:23 <Cryp71c> Early to early-mid
11:38:28 <Wensley> it is kind of weird that you can get demonic guardian 3 before lair
11:38:50 <Wensley> but that sort of unpredictability is still cool
11:39:39 <Cryp71c> Yeah, and there are multiple ways to address that, I've tweaked guardian so much now that even if you get dguardian3, you won't ever get any guardians unless you run around aggroing EVERYTHING, in which case 1 guardian still probably won't help you when you get surrounded or otherwise get into a sticky situation.
11:39:49 <Cryp71c> So its probably not an issue anymore with regard to balance.
11:39:49 <dpeg> One solution to overpowered DGs is that at most Lair tension situations, you simply don't get the top tier demons.
11:40:03 <dpeg> Cryp71c: ah, I think that's what I just meant
11:40:24 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yeah, that's one last change I'd like to implement: guardian3 should still be able to spawn guardian1 and guardian2 level demons, if tension isn't sufficient for a tier3 demon.
11:40:37 <Cryp71c> but that's arbitrary.
11:40:42 <Wensley> demonspawn are the biggest triumph of 0.7, in my opinion
11:40:45 <Cryp71c> Its not critical for balance, I don't think.
11:40:48 <Cryp71c> Wensley, thanks :)
11:40:51 <Cryp71c> I'm glad they slipped in
11:40:52 <Cryp71c> muwhaha
11:41:21 <Wensley> !lg * cv=0.7 s=race
11:41:21 <Sequell> 97327 games for * (cv=0.7): 15526x Deep Elf, 11903x Demonspawn, 8135x Spriggan, 6001x Merfolk, 5388x High Elf, 4726x Mountain Dwarf, 3502x Sludge Elf, 3488x Hill Orc, 3428x Troll, 3221x Naga, 3172x Kobold, 3128x Kenku, 3046x Vampire, 2987x Human, 2858x Ghoul, 2735x Minotaur, 2625x Deep Dwarf, 2156x Ogre, 2151x Halfling, 2082x Draconian, 1960x Mummy, 1886x Demigod, 861x Centaur, 47x Green Draconian...
11:41:35 <Wensley> so close to dethroning deep elves
11:42:32 <dpeg> Hey, sorear also did something for DS :)
11:42:52 <Wensley> props to everyone involved
11:43:22 <elliptic> !lg * cv=0.7 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving s=crace
11:43:23 <Sequell> 80702 games for * (cv=0.7 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving): 10156x Demonspawn, 7785x Spriggan, 5663x Merfolk, 5655x Deep Elf, 5138x High Elf, 4446x Mountain Dwarf, 3328x Hill Orc, 3208x Sludge Elf, 3121x Troll, 3008x Naga, 2969x Kobold, 2882x Vampire, 2810x Kenku, 2753x Ghoul, 2570x Human, 2563x Minotaur, 2465x Deep Dwarf, 2172x Draconian, 2036x Halfling, 1890x Ogre, 1738x Mummy, 1604x Demigod, 742x ...
11:43:23 <Cryp71c> dpeg, ohyeah, I forgot sorear was working on them before me :P I never played them before I started messing with them, what all did Sorear change?
11:43:57 <elliptic> most of those DE were sebi's doing
11:44:19 <Cryp71c> what was sebi doing?
11:44:43 <elliptic> !lg sebi cv=0.7 crace=DE s=ktyp
11:44:44 <Sequell> 9703 games for sebi (cv=0.7 crace=DE): 9549x leaving, 114x mon, 23x beam, 13x pois, 2x spore, 1x trap, 1x disintegration
11:44:47 <Cryp71c> lol
11:44:48 <dpeg> Cryp71c: sorear he started the DS overhaul, with the facets
11:44:48 <elliptic> leaving
11:44:58 <Cryp71c> elliptic, why'd he leave so many games?
11:45:06 <Cryp71c> dpeg, right, I took facets for granted :P
11:45:06 <elliptic> mainly they were DEWn I guess
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11:57:39 <Ashenzari> Sky beast gives incorrect message with see invisible (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2770) by 78291
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12:02:41 <Ashenzari> Wrath of Trog doesn't have antimagic effect on wield (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2771) by 78291
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12:51:58 <coolio_mc> hey, can I get some of my old mantis reports closed?
13:01:26 <dpeg> coolio_mc: as in: done right now. Or obsoletel?
13:02:22 <coolio_mc> obsolete
13:04:00 <coolio_mc> these: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1806 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1835
13:05:49 <dpeg> coolio_mc: in case I forgot to close (writing something right now), please !tell me. Short message with Mantis number and order will do. Thanks!
13:12:49 <Napkin> someone seems to have found a vucano without exit: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2772
13:13:05 <Ashenzari> Blocked in volcano vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2772) by Noom
13:13:13 <Napkin> would it help to delete his vulcano map? and how would I do that with the new .cs format?
13:13:25 <dpeg> don't know :(
13:22:44 <kilobyte> Napkin: crawl --edit-save the_save_file.cs rm level (where the level is what used to be extension)
13:22:56 <kilobyte> Napkin: but you probably already know that
13:23:22 <Napkin> you told me once - but I never had to use it since then and forgot
13:23:31 <Napkin> would deleting his vulcano map help?
13:23:54 <Napkin> and, is there any list how to find out what extension a map has? that would generally be quite useful
13:23:55 <dpeg> Napkin: would you assign the bug to due? Either he or Mu did the lua logic for that volcano map.
13:24:01 <kilobyte> it would force a new map to be generated... I'm not sure how that would work for portals
13:25:10 <kilobyte> lemme finish compiling, I'll give it a try
13:25:27 <Napkin> great :)
13:25:31 <Napkin> done, dpeg.
13:25:55 <Napkin> you make --edit-save take an absolute path too recently, right, kilobyte?
13:25:58 <Napkin> *you made
13:28:12 <kilobyte> yeah
13:28:24 <Napkin> excellent - thanks again :)
13:28:36 <kilobyte> just don't use repack with an absolute path, I noticed that it is buggy today... all other commands work
13:28:49 <Napkin> --repack does what? :-$
13:28:51 <kilobyte> just checked, it generated a new volcano for me
13:28:57 <kilobyte> the chunk name is "ptl"
13:29:19 <Napkin> should i let due have a look first or delete it immediately?
13:29:37 <kilobyte> Napkin: it fscks, defrags and reclaims free space
13:29:45 <Napkin> oh, neat!
13:29:48 <kilobyte> you may copy the save
13:30:02 <Napkin> it is copied
13:30:03 <kilobyte> heck, or even --edit-save get :p
13:30:14 <Napkin> :D
13:31:25 <Napkin> let's try then :)
13:31:37 <kilobyte> well, repack never turned out to be of any use... fortunately, the crash proofiness works good enough.  Any bugs in the save format were outside the filesystem itself :)
13:32:31 <kilobyte> in theory you could use it to reduce the disk usage of old saves... but the losses are generally O(1) -- around 40-60KB in worst case, so it's not worth the hassle
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13:32:53 <Napkin> > bin/crawl-svn-1a871b1 --edit-save crawl-svn-1a871b1/saves/noom-2002.cs rm ptl
13:32:57 <Napkin> >
13:33:13 <Ashenzari> Tweaked angel and daeva (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2773) by OG17
13:33:15 <Napkin> no output is good, huh? ;>
13:33:57 <kilobyte> yeah
13:34:09 <Napkin> awesome :)
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14:18:00 <dpeg> !tell Mantis 1806, 1835 can be closed.
14:18:00 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let Mantis know.
14:18:45 <Cryp71c> dpeg, why are you messaging Mantis?
14:19:02 <elliptic> !seen mantis
14:19:03 <Henzell> I last saw mantis at Thu Sep 30 23:01:39 2010 UTC (3w 4d 20h 17m 24s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 252 seconds.
14:20:35 * kilobyte ponders the number of stuck messages to inexistant people sitting in Henzell.
14:20:43 <dpeg> !tell dpeg Mantis 1806, 1835 can be closed.
14:20:43 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
14:20:47 <dpeg> Cryp71c: thx
14:20:47 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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14:24:58 <Cryp71c> kilobyte, probably innumerable.
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14:28:52 <kilobyte> dpeg: I tried getting the Dwarf Hall right, but with the standard layout generator, it is worthless.  Just a regular D level with several smallish vaults here and there.
14:30:37 <dpeg> kilobyte: sorry, no time right now, I am about to jump up
14:30:42 <kilobyte> proposed solutions: 1. do it with subvaults and handcrafted layout, 2. research new generatord, 3. just put the vaults into normal D as several normal ones
14:30:45 <kilobyte> ok
14:30:48 <dpeg> kilobyte: don't worry too much about the halls
14:30:50 <kilobyte> "up"?
14:30:58 <dpeg> no time !!! :)
14:31:31 <kilobyte> I'm going with 2, since I have to do that anyway and layout_delve has some nice tunable parameters that can make it look completely different
14:32:04 <dpeg> cool
14:32:58 <kilobyte> it's likely this won't fit (as that layout is too organic), but we'll think later
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14:46:44 <CIA-39> 03kilobyte * r24737407a525 10/crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc: Fix "--edit-save repack" and explicit file names.
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14:59:50 <CIA-39> 03kilobyte * r5ddcb4625623 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Ashenzari: halve piety gains in the Abyss.
15:04:17 <Eronarn> *why*?
15:04:37 <Wensley> I guess to encourage people to traverse pan for ash piety instead?
15:05:32 <kilobyte> all other levels have their "density" measured, while Abyss uses a constant factor instead
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15:05:59 <kilobyte> however, compared to normal levels that factor is indeed mad
15:06:06 <lucia> ola
15:06:13 <lucia> ?
15:06:14 <Wensley> couldn't that constant factor just be miniscule?
15:06:27 <lucia> awhat?¿
15:06:31 <Wensley> don't see why ash should care about recon on an infinite abyss of nothingness
15:06:38 <sorear> Eronarn: abyss = all exploring, all the time.  ash gives piety for exploring.
15:06:41 <lucia> xD i dont not
15:06:51 <kilobyte> if Abyss was static, its density would be usually 5kish -- but the denominator was just 1000.  I made it 2000 for now.
15:06:57 <sorear> Eronarn: it's like the reason okawaru doesn't give full piety for fighting through waves of summons
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15:07:11 <coolio_mc> !tell dpeg 1806 1835
15:07:11 <Henzell> coolio_mc: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
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15:17:33 <Eronarn> oh, if ash already looks for some factor for exploring, that's fine to bring abyss into balance
15:17:42 <Eronarn> it just shouldn't be an arbitrary thing only specific to abyss
15:19:37 <Wensley> ash giving piety for exploring the abyss is like an employer paying a programmer to type random letters at the keyboard all day
15:23:16 <Eronarn> Wensley: why should ash care about exploring anything at all?
15:23:23 <Eronarn> gods are inscrutable and weird
15:27:06 <Wensley> eronarn: why should anything ever bother to be self-consistent
15:28:53 <Eronarn> Wensley: "because consistency is important, we should special-case the abyss"
15:30:00 <Wensley> the abyss is already quite different from the normal dungeon, the game makes that abundantly clear
15:31:38 <monky> hell and pan are too maybe special-case them as well
15:31:46 <Eronarn> also portal vaults
15:31:47 <monky> but only if it makes sense
15:32:07 <Eronarn> special case metal dungeon levels; divinations don't work through lead
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15:33:25 <Eronarn> Invisibility
15:33:25 <Eronarn> This spell hides a creature from the sight of others.
15:33:29 <Eronarn> Noise : A bit loud
15:33:31 <Eronarn> well then
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15:35:06 <sorear> spell noise is proportional to level unless special cased
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15:37:21 <Eronarn> it'd be neat to differentiate that better across schools
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15:54:00 <Ashenzari> item got wrong description (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2774) by Noom
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15:59:14 <TGWi> you mean like if air conjurations were extra-loud?
16:00:38 <monky> do air conjurations even do good damage
16:00:40 <Zannick> i would think earth spells would be louder
16:00:43 <Eronarn> TGWi: like: ice being extra-quiet, fire being extra-loud
16:00:49 <TGWi> hm
16:01:11 <Eronarn> it'd also be a possibly interesting factor if skills affected casting noise
16:01:12 <TGWi> maybe napalmed enemies should make lots of noise
16:01:15 <monky> Zannick: most air conjurations sparky electricity stuff
16:01:26 <Zannick> right
16:01:47 <monky> so earth conj should be really really loud??
16:01:48 <TGWi> I'd imagine earth < ice < fire < lightning and big explosions
16:01:49 <TGWi> or so
16:02:20 <TGWi> no particular reason ice or earth would be especially quiet or loud though
16:02:40 <Zannick> well, earth has things like dig and shatter
16:02:47 <TGWi> maybe if ice conjurations were silent, but fire got the extra range instead of ice
16:02:52 <monky> dig is tmut and quiet now
16:03:04 <monky> shatter is tmut
16:03:09 <Zannick> oh
16:03:12 <monky> lrd is tmut too
16:03:21 <Zannick> so...is anything earth?
16:03:26 <Zannick> :P
16:03:26 <monky> lcs
16:03:28 <TGWi> stone arrow, iron shot
16:03:29 <TGWi> lcs
16:03:40 <monky> dig and shatter and lrd are earth/tmut
16:03:45 <Eronarn> stone arrow, iron shot, and lcs shouldn't be noisy to cast
16:04:04 <Eronarn> they should be noisy if they hit a wall or a metallic/stone enemy
16:04:29 <TGWi> I don't think that's really interesting
16:04:38 <TGWi> casting spells at weird angles all the time to avoid noise
16:05:33 <monky> reminds me of dancing things into round los
16:06:21 <TGWi> is there a suitable wiki page for this? I like the "loud fire but swap the ranges" thing
16:06:47 <sorear> I think all bolt conjurations are silent to cast but make noise on impact, now
16:07:07 <sorear> I mean ranged with targetting, not just bolt of foo
16:07:36 <TGWi> is the number in zap-data.h for impact noise or casting noise?
16:09:09 <st_> there's a casting noise wiki page with a table
16:11:19 <Zannick> silent to cast = no verbal component? or causes no noise?
16:11:30 <Zannick> the former would imply that it can be cast while silenced
16:14:07 <Eronarn> argh, shop mimic >:(
16:16:08 <kilobyte> <3 due
16:19:09 <Ashenzari> properly seat fedhas altar (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2775) by Porkchop
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16:41:10 <CIA-39> 03dolorous * r4fbcfaf2f23f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: For now, give the nisse proper spellcasting flags.
16:42:00 <Eronarn> This spell temporarily transforms the caster into a great, fire-breathing
16:42:01 <Eronarn> dragon.
16:42:03 <Eronarn> probably needs revision
16:44:43 <Zannick> s/a great/an awesome/ ? ;)
17:01:33 <Eronarn> Zannick: draconicans turn into dragons of their type and thus aren't necessarily fire-breathing
17:01:45 <Zannick> yeah, i figured
17:05:09 <TGWi> s/great/mediocre/ amirite
17:05:28 <TGWi> also you could keep the description with another sentence for draconians
17:06:36 <TGWi> "draconian casters are instead transformed into a corresponding type of dragon"
17:06:48 <TGWi> because there's no reason to omit "fire-breathing" for most chars
17:07:00 <TGWi> what happens if an immature draconian gets dragon form?
17:08:12 <CIA-39> 03galehar * rabfeff92bc9e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): Add a "show all" toggle to the skill selection menu
17:08:18 <CIA-39> 03galehar * rd01ddc8b4a08 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills.cc skills2.cc): Change stealth skill points bonus to reduced base cost
17:08:19 <CIA-39> 03galehar * re626bb69a221 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Properly declare and initialize static maps
17:08:21 <CIA-39> 03galehar * r52613e553395 10/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc: Allow skill_cost_level to be reduced when skill points are lost
17:08:26 <CIA-39> 03galehar * r738df0a21160 10/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc: Scale the skill disabling factor with skill level
17:15:10 <elliptic> tgwi: that could actually happen plausibly if xom casts it on you
17:15:30 <TGWi> or with wizardry
17:15:37 <TGWi> do they become a baby dragon?
17:15:54 <TGWi> imo they should be a golden dragon, as an easter egg
17:15:54 <elliptic> wizardry wouldn't be nearly enough unless you were scumming draining
17:15:59 <elliptic> L8 spell takes a ton of skill
17:16:04 <elliptic> and you can't learn it anyway
17:16:06 <TGWi> wizardry and sif muna scumming
17:16:10 <TGWi> ok good point
17:23:56 <Eronarn> xom dragonform should make you into a random dragon
17:25:34 <Mu_> komodo dragon
17:25:58 <kilobyte> Mu_: <3
17:26:29 <kilobyte> metamorphosis card can do that as well
17:27:52 <CIA-39> 03galehar * rddeb6cd81a85 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files): Declare all the functions refixed with _ as static
17:28:10 <galehar> *prefixed
17:28:12 <galehar> damn
17:31:53 <kilobyte> it appears there's no more such functions in the binary
17:32:24 <kilobyte> at least in non-tiles
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17:44:04 <galehar> what?
17:44:29 <galehar> function with a name starting with _ ?
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17:46:25 <minced> Hi. I'm currently trying to code a mass Tukima's dance spell for the Tukima unique.
17:46:44 <minced> Does anyone know how I should remove the Tukimified weapons from the floor after I create their animated versions?
17:47:14 <minced> The Tukima code uses wpn->clear() but that doesn't seem to work.
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17:51:51 <minced> OK, just got mass tukima's dance to work.
17:52:16 <galehar> this chan is awesome
17:52:23 <galehar> see how fast your problem got solved?
17:54:43 <minced> heh
17:55:42 <minced> I named the mass Tukima's dance spell "Tukima's Dance Party"
17:56:05 <galehar> awesome!
17:56:49 <Zannick> Tukima's Techno Mix
17:56:57 <minced> lol
17:57:04 <Zannick> no, Tukima's Techno Trance
17:57:16 <valrus> Tukima's Rave
17:57:32 <minced> I like that last one.
17:57:36 <valrus> fr: discorobin lighting when you cast it
17:57:39 <Zannick> the glowsticks are spinning wildly by themselves
17:57:51 <valrus> also spawns giant fireflies
17:58:04 <Zannick> and is very loud
17:58:11 <minced> valrus: that's... actually a really fun idea, thought it's probably going to only be cast by Tukima.
17:58:31 <valrus> it goes "OONce OONce OONce" every time you take a step
17:58:58 <CIA-39> 03kilobyte * r2d65edd2038f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files): Make some functions static, remove unused among those.
17:59:08 <valrus> if it's going to be that flamboyant it should be rare
17:59:12 <kilobyte> beh, this time I got bored really fast
18:00:20 <galehar> by what?
18:00:23 <kilobyte> well, doy removed my discorobin vault (or rather, repurposed it as a testing ground for an unrelated gimmick for his), so we need that back ASAP!
18:00:40 <kilobyte> galehar: finding stuff that should be static
18:00:59 <minced> wait.. no disco? I liked that vault!
18:01:31 <kilobyte> minced: it has actual waves of colour rather than acid trip effects
18:02:17 <minced> Oh that's right, I really liked that the colors seemed to rotate rather than randomly vary when I saw that vault.
18:03:58 <kilobyte> yeah, I'm not saying doy's effect is worse (as it is better)
18:04:16 <kilobyte> what I mean is that acidrobin is a Crawl's tradition
18:04:30 <minced> true
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19:01:50 <Cryp71c> Evening
19:05:46 <Wensley> due: people are requesting that you buff sky beasts
19:06:20 <Wensley> :P
19:10:59 <Eronarn> if you wear a recurse cloak, uncurse it, and then switch body armor
19:11:14 <Eronarn> you'll take the cloak off, wear the new body armor, then put the cloak back on and curse yourself
19:11:30 <due> yes, you will
19:11:52 <Eronarn> this probably shouldn't happen
19:13:55 <Wensley> what do you propose‽
19:14:16 <TGWi> don't put the cloak back on
19:15:27 <Wensley> there could be a warning prompt every time you took off an item with recurse, as with vampiric weapons
19:19:04 <Wensley> it's justified by the fact that recurse items are like vampiric in that it's not taking them off that's the issue, it's putting them back on
19:20:16 <Cryp71c> I'm not sure such a change is necessary. The layering of potentially re-curseable equipment should seem natural to players, since it follows RL logic.
19:20:46 <Eronarn> Cryp71c: it's something that people will forget/ignore 99% of the time
19:21:05 <Cryp71c> Eronarn, really? I find myself considering it quite naturally, and I'm by no means a natural crawl player.
19:21:07 <Eronarn> and then 1% of the time they accidentally try on a randart armor in hell when they have no remove curse, or something
19:21:18 <TGWi> Cryp71c: let's say you're trying on armours looking for a brand
19:21:25 <TGWi> do you want your cloak to recurse every time?
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19:21:46 <TGWi> at the very least, not re-equipping the cloak ensures you can get your main armour back on
19:22:42 <Cryp71c> so, remove the cloak first?
19:23:04 <TGWi> remove the cloak and wear the armour, then don't put the cloak back on
19:23:30 <Cryp71c> TGWi, that's an acceptable solution from my perspective.
19:23:42 <Cryp71c> I don't think more prompts is a universally good approach.
19:23:55 <TGWi> only prompting is still annoying because you would still have to manually remove the cloak so as to not be stuck with your new armour
19:24:21 <Eronarn> TGWi: i think a prompt is better because it will at least inform you the situation exists
19:24:25 <Wensley> and then players will run around without their cloaks on, because they're used to switching armor putting it back on for them
19:24:42 <Eronarn> if there's no prompt, people will forget that they need to put their cloak (or gloves) back on
19:24:44 <TGWi> both is possible
19:24:49 <TGWi> a prompt alone is annoying
19:25:21 <Wensley> is there an inscription for unequipping an item, or is it the same inscription for equipping an item?
19:25:21 <Cryp71c> Eronarn, careless is the player who can't remember that they are wearing a piece of equipment which recurses itself. There are only 5 slots, and curse is a fairly rare property.
19:26:17 <Cryp71c> Not to mention that being stuck with bad armor on your slot (eg, making no change to current behavior) is not as immediately life threatening, considering the commonality of remove curse.
19:27:03 <Cryp71c> Furthermore, if you take into consideration the probability that a player under these circumstances happen to not have a remove curse, either on his person or in stash, rCurse is still so common that obtaining one within the next couple of levels
19:27:33 <Eronarn> "guys, don't worry, you won't try to blink onto deep water often. dying instantly is a pretty good way to get people to pay closer attention in the future"
19:27:36 <Cryp71c> (or even in the abyss, if you chose it to be the setting of this transpiration of events) is not only fairly easy, its often not directly threatening.
19:28:55 <monky> nearly everything deep water/lava related is incredibly silly
19:29:02 <Cryp71c> Comparisons between mechanics which represent insta-death and another which represents the potential for death for lazy players is invalid in its origin.
19:29:17 <monky> like no blinking into it, no getting trampled into it (how do you magically hold your ground)
19:29:43 <Cryp71c> That's like comparing apples to corn meal, there's a huge leap you have to make in order for a logical conclusion to exist.
19:29:52 <Eronarn> lol
19:29:56 <TGWi> elephants are polite
19:30:00 <TGWi> they're polite elephants
19:30:22 <Cryp71c> See what I did there? I didn't say oranges...
19:32:01 <Eronarn> but you didn't say that you didn't mean oranges. to assume that you did not mean oranges is hardly a logical conclusion based on the available evidence
19:32:23 <Eronarn> and apples and corn meal (by which you probably meant oranges) are both fruit
19:32:35 <Wensley> oranges aren't fruit
19:32:36 <TGWi> did you guys know that corn meal are fruit
19:32:40 <TGWi> yes they are
19:32:43 <Wensley> wrong
19:33:22 <due> ...
19:33:25 <Cryp71c> (its silent because everyone is wiki-pedia'ing "orange")
19:33:34 <due> What the hell you even bothering to have this argument for?
19:33:50 <Wensley> this is important, the recurse property is very contentious
19:34:22 <due> Just add a fucking prompt when changing armour with recurse cloak or rings with recurse gloves.
19:34:22 <Cryp71c> Anyways, I'm out...I was only popping in for a moment and urged myself to voice my "Less is More" generality.
19:34:25 <Cryp71c> See you guys tomorrow.
19:34:32 <Cryp71c> due, meh :(
19:34:33 <Eronarn> yeah seriously, i don't get how this could even be a question
19:34:43 <due> Why is there even any question as to doing this?
19:34:48 <Eronarn> should your character ever automatically put on cursed gear: no.
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20:03:09 <lys> Crawl Devs, why you no let me use fire brand on my blade hands? Is no game breaker is it?
20:05:03 <Wensley> it's a good question
20:05:13 <Wensley> unarmed brandings are something that deserve consideration
20:05:40 <lys> :D
20:05:47 <lys> I wanted to put it on the suggestion page on the wiki
20:05:52 <lys> but I don't know how :'(
20:06:05 <monky> do you have an account
20:06:10 <lys> yes
20:06:20 <lys> I just tried editing it though
20:06:32 <lys> and I don't understand the format so I can edit the index pages
20:06:37 <lys> so I can add one in about it
20:06:45 <Wensley> which page are you putting it on? give us the link and we will do it for you
20:07:39 <lys> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:effect:start
20:08:21 <monky> to make a new page, navigate to that page, and it will ask if you want to make it
20:08:37 <monky> not sure if that's the right section though
20:08:49 <Wensley> there is already a "new brands" page with sections on brands for each item type, that's the closest there is right now
20:09:05 <lys> oh right
20:09:08 <lys> I didn't know
20:09:12 <lys> sorry
20:09:21 <Wensley> no prob :)
20:09:34 <Wensley> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:new_brands
20:09:57 <Wensley> actually, you said that you don't know the formatting? give me a sec, I'll do it
20:10:10 <lys> yeah I'm a wiki noob :(
20:10:33 <lys> If you can do it for me, it would be greatly appreciated, you can even take the credit for thinking of it if you like
20:10:38 <lys> I just wanna see it in the game :P
20:10:55 <Wensley> actually, maybe I should make an unarmed combat page, I'm surprised there isn't one already
20:11:07 <lys> Well, do whatever you think is best :D
20:11:32 <lys> I just wanna be able to lop off hydra heads with my flaming blade arms :D
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20:14:25 <monky> as a player, I'd like pain or distortion bhands, but I'm afraid it'd be too powerful and it removes an important distinction between unarmed and weapon combat
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20:14:59 <lys> yeah, I can understand some types of brands would be too powerful
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20:15:25 <lys> but I don't see why you can't just have the low level ones like fire or ice so you can get rid of hydras and stuff without fucking around with another weapon
20:15:35 <monky> unarmed combat is crazy powerful as-is
20:16:00 <monky> and allowing some but not others is a really glaring inconsistency
20:16:24 <lys> It sort of is and sort of isn't
20:16:26 <lys> maybe
20:16:32 <lys> you have to take some sort of penalty
20:16:36 <lys> for the most powerful ones
20:16:53 <lys> like pain hands will inflict damage on you when you hit enemies
20:17:16 <lys> and distortion hands will give same /similarpenalties as removing a distortion weapon
20:17:33 <lys> wouldn't that balance things out a bit?
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20:27:40 <Wensley> lys: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:unarmed_combat
20:28:22 <lys> cool
20:30:00 <lys> thanks for that :)
20:30:24 <Wensley> no prob :)
20:37:19 <valrus> honestly, even if unarmed brands are introduced, not being able to distortion brand your fucking hands makes a LOT of sense to me
20:37:21 <Eronarn> Some shallow water, covered with mold.
20:37:54 <Eronarn> unarmed brands are a bad idea because they will make everyone going unarmed train up ench to get them
20:38:52 <valrus> they don't seem more valuable than, say, rMsl or regen
20:39:00 <valrus> nor do they require more training
20:39:26 <Eronarn> what.
20:39:53 <monky> unarmed requires a lot more training than demon weapons, at least
20:40:12 <valrus> if I'm playing an unarmed char and I have access to rMsl, I will learn it. thus training up ench
20:40:27 <Wensley> Eronarn: the wiki page doesn't even mention enchantment
20:40:33 <valrus> there are already plenty of good reasons for unarmed fighters to train up ench, is what I'm saying
20:40:51 <Eronarn> okay let me rephrase this:
20:41:06 <Eronarn> if you could brand your hands, everyone who could do so would
20:41:13 <Eronarn> with almost no exceptions
20:41:49 <Wensley> eronarn: I don't think you've read the wiki page
20:41:50 <lys> well its not so much branding hands that I think would be good, just the blade hands
20:41:58 <lys> but anyway
20:42:04 <lys> I'll let you guys argue over this.
20:42:16 <valrus> fair enough
20:43:14 <Eronarn> ok, i read the wiki page, what does this have to do with
20:43:21 <Eronarn> 21:03 < lys> Crawl Devs, why you no let me use fire brand on my blade hands? Is no game breaker is it?
20:43:43 <Wensley> you can add it if you want
20:44:00 <lys> yeah I was going to add in my thoughts soon
20:51:17 <TGWi> UC damage formula should be nerfed at high levels I think
20:51:44 <Wensley> TGWi: then it is a good thing that I made a wiki page for unarmed combat five minutes ago
20:51:53 <lys> is there an automatic way to make signature and time stamp on the wiki?
20:52:23 <TGWi> second button from the right
20:52:52 <lys> ah cool thanks
20:55:26 <valrus> how can I pull just one file from crawl's source without replacing my copy?
20:57:11 <monky> git checkout file
20:57:27 <monky> might want to git stash your copy
20:57:33 <monky> if you don't want it replaced
20:58:16 <valrus> is "git stash <file>" something you can do
20:58:16 <valrus> ?
20:59:35 <monky> I'm not a git expert, so I don't know the syntax
20:59:48 <valrus> how about if I just turn my current work into a branch
21:00:01 <valrus> and pull the whole current source as master
21:00:01 <monky> http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-stash.html manpage for git-stash
21:00:19 <valrus> heh I do know how to read man pages :)
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21:57:26 <valrus> why doesn't git finish doing a commit when I type the commit message in the file that pops up and save it?
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22:04:47 <minced> I'm currently implementing Tukima (unique). Since she's an enchanter and a dancer, does anyone think a "spotlight" (improved corona, small "halo" that follows target) spell would be fitting?
22:06:22 <Eronarn> nah
22:07:10 <Eronarn> i'd give her a music ability of some kind
22:09:33 <minced> that's a cool idea.
22:10:00 <blackpenguin> a spotlight would match for a dancer, too
22:10:22 <due> Was Tukima marked as implementable?
22:10:25 <minced> yes
22:10:30 <due> Huh.
22:10:39 <due> I thought there were a lot of objections to implementing her.
22:10:43 <minced> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:new_uniques#tukima
22:10:50 <minced> interesting. What were the objections?
22:10:59 <due> I don't recall, sorry.
22:11:09 <minced> ok
22:11:17 <minced> was it on crawl-ref-discuss?
22:11:25 <due> Either that or the bug tracker or IRC.
22:11:34 <due> And all of those uniques need to be unmarked.
22:11:41 <minced> unmarked?
22:12:04 <due> As implementable
22:12:14 <due> Ibrahim was to be merged with Iscariot
22:12:24 <due> And I don't believe we were going to use Iscariot as a name
22:12:33 <minced> What about Ein and Mudgley?
22:12:43 <minced> (I'm partial to those two b/c I wrote their current dialogue)
22:12:43 <due> Mudgly, I'm not sure.
22:12:54 <due> Ein, I would say no
22:13:14 <due> I honeslty don't see what's unique about him.
22:13:25 <minced> me too
22:13:42 <due> I can't edit the pages from work though
22:13:51 <minced> if I submit the Tukima patch, do you think she'll make it into the game anyway?
22:13:57 <due> I dunno, sorry.
22:14:00 <minced> ok
22:14:04 <minced> thanks anyway
22:14:20 <minced> gotta run now
22:14:47 <due> Animating a player's inventory isn't cruel, it's hilarious.
22:15:16 <due> None of those unioque proposals are really that unique. :|
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22:20:07 <Eronarn> i'd like to see a unique with a talking sword randart, where the sword dialogue calls you a murderer, etc. if you wield it after you kill him
22:20:55 <Eronarn> i'd also like to see the singing sword's sister implemented :3
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23:56:45 <Ashenzari> Crashes on startup (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2776) by Ashenai