00:05:20 Repeted "crash" on ctr+S (save and exit) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2190) by June 00:31:03 -!- Siber2 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:44 -!- Siber2 has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:14 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:05 -!- daftfad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:20:47 i just got a message from some guy telling me they were in awe of me and 78291 01:20:54 not quite sure what to make of that 01:25:21 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:47 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:38 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:23 -!- mruuuu has quit [Quit: mruuuu] 01:55:09 -!- Gub has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:36 -!- Gub is now known as Guest28110 01:56:10 -!- Guest28110 has quit [Client Quit] 02:04:14 -!- mruuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:09 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:36 !lm 78291 02:27:37 Index out of range: 78290 02:27:40 !lm @78291 02:27:40 34303. [2010-08-04] 78291 the Conjurer (L14 DSVM) killed Norbert on turn 41699. (D:16) 02:27:46 !lm @78291 -2 02:27:47 34302. [2010-08-04] 78291 the Conjurer (L14 DSVM) killed Eustachio on turn 41681. (D:16) 02:27:49 !lm @78291 -3 02:27:50 34301. [2010-08-04] 78291 the Conjurer (L14 DSVM) killed Urug on turn 41183. (D:16) 02:33:40 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:53 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:39 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:34:49 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 02:39:57 doy: tell them to make their awe public and form team "cabal fans" 02:40:20 (: 02:42:21 seems not much has happened score-wise recently 02:43:00 I haven't been playing. :) 02:43:04 !whereis 02:43:04 bookofjude the Ruffian (L6 TrHe), a worshipper of Elyvilon, last saved on D:4 on 2010-08-03 after 3408 turns. 02:43:13 huh, I thought I killed that troll. 02:43:27 you're going to win that troll 02:43:34 ok 03:02:04 Ohhh nice. 03:02:21 I regenerate, have sharp toenails and are resistant to magic. 03:02:26 Thanks !mut 03:19:08 greater naga can definitely pick up shields if they don't come with them 03:19:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:32 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:09 -!- JamezQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:01 -!- Ekaterin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:06 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 04:28:30 -!- Enne has quit [*.net *.split] 04:28:30 -!- lorimer has quit [*.net *.split] 04:33:09 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 04:33:17 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:19 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:54 Stairs white on map, red at top (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2191) by Core Xii 04:43:40 Is there a bug report I can attach daftfad's save to 04:46:29 I'll make one, just a sex 04:48:03 eh 04:48:38 #2192 04:48:53 Great, thanks 04:49:24 We should sync the timestamp in the crash milestone with the timestamp on the crash dump 04:51:58 Beogh conversion crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2192) by rob 04:53:14 Looks like beogh_follower_convert needs to check for god_gift if it wants to assert on god-gifts later 04:53:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:01 Essentially repro step is to autoexplore and run into a hostile god-gifted orc in a corridor 04:54:14 Took me four tries to get the repro though 04:54:21 with that save? 04:54:24 Yes 04:55:05 I think orcs aren't intended to be in that state without the change attempt flag, but certainly the assert as is is hard to believe 04:55:24 I think Beogh can gift friendly orcs, no? 04:55:32 Presumably those wouldn't have the change attempt flag? 04:55:50 I tested those yesterday, and they had identical flags to converted orcs 04:55:54 Ah 04:56:37 dpeg: If you have time, I have a new Bailey map and a new Ice Cave map at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:evktalo 04:56:51 but considering also polymorphed god gifts, player god changing, etc., I think that assert is not realistic 04:56:52 Keskitalo: can you mail them to me? A mail with the link is enough. 04:56:59 dpeg: Will do! 04:57:48 dpeg: I also have thoughts on Ice Cave difficulty, I'll try out ice_cave_easy (Lair:4-7, D:11-14) and ice_cave_hard (D:14-20, Elf:2-6, Vaults:1-7) 04:58:01 The good bit is, can make harder hard maps then :) 04:58:53 And only have the easy ones appear early, so they will be exciting too. 04:59:20 yes 04:59:34 we could do the same with baileys, it occurrs to me 04:59:59 greensnark: checking for god_gift is not enough, since mons_is_god_gift() checks only for gifts from the god you currently worship, while that assert and following checks rely on it not being a god gift at all 05:00:42 Let's toss the assert then 05:01:05 Can't spend too much time on this -- I'm at work. 05:01:07 Yesterday I looked through the SA DCSS 0.7 thread, and boy are they upset about the circular ranges :) 05:01:16 But once the fix is in I can put it up on CAO 05:01:25 dpeg: A bunch of idiot wankers there 05:01:27 greensnark: to produce permanent god gifts, you need to be (probably incomplete): Xommite (unpolymorphable), Jiyavite or a worshipper of a good god who used the Crusade card 05:01:43 I had no idea OG17 would want to jump so determinedly into the wanker bucket 05:02:09 Until he started frothing at the mouth there I thought he was pretty sane overall 05:02:41 Of course, I got all the blame <3 05:02:46 dpeg: shooting at things beyond LOS or who are in LOS but next to an edge of it was what we wanted to stop with the 0.5 range nerf and then fixed in 0.7 05:03:14 The range scene is not perfect, but the wailing about the end of the world in that thread was just so moronic 05:03:46 dpeg: I somewhat believe the range nerf made the game quite tedious, but if we want it, range needs to be consistent with LOS. Either both square (bleh) or both circular. 05:04:07 kilobyte: yes, I know. I would have said something if I have had issues. (I still believe that square LOS is conceptually better, but the little nits may weigh in harder than the current solution.) 05:04:21 And yes, SA is lacking manners to the point where nobody can take them serious. 05:04:28 I'm playing a Cj now, and the ranges are just fine. 05:04:33 Well, a Wz. 05:04:33 The range thing doesn't actually affect anyone beyond the people who love to whine about technicalities 05:04:37 yes 05:04:43 I've played spellcasters since the range change 05:04:56 as I said before, SA is close to the dignity level of /b/ 05:05:02 /b/ ? 05:05:05 Sounds exciting :) 05:05:05 Oh, SA in general is ok 05:05:17 dpeg: if you don't know, DO NOT look that up :p 05:05:18 But there's a loony fringe that you want to not take too seriously 05:05:49 Ok, please ping me when there's a fix for the crash, I'll rebuild on CAO 05:05:51 * greensnark back to work. 05:05:57 Someone has a 3-streak -- I love it. 05:06:03 the range thing is not nice at short range, but that could be fixed as kilobyte suggested by using non-integral ranges 05:06:14 by: yes 05:06:34 How common are diagonal corridors in level design? 05:06:39 I haven't done anything about it because it's kind of unclear what direction should be taken, and either way is work 05:06:46 What I meant by "conceptual" above is that moving and LOS/ranges use different metrics. This is slightly ugly, but doesn't really matter in the game. 05:06:51 it currently already uses non-intergal ranges, but they are always just a bit ahead of an integer 05:06:55 I'd be annoyed if there were a place with all diagonals and my character suddenly has a range nerf of N. 05:07:06 Zao: Uncommon, although Spider's Nest will (hopefully) feature them. 05:07:29 Which would turn "I can whittle this mob to death just as it reaches me" to "I'm dead" 05:07:31 Well.. that goes well with the branch being harder for conjurers :) 05:07:42 square everything has the major advantage of greatly simplifying the code if done completely 05:07:52 Beause without circular ranges, it would be easier for them. 05:08:03 but I fear the game would look too abstract with square halos, square silence etc. 05:08:19 by: yes, that's the reason why I never pushed this issue in the past. 05:08:22 and Forest, with a lot of non-straight corridors at all angles 05:08:30 kilobyte: Awesome. 05:09:17 kilobyte: could you imagine to make the Forest growing? I.e. spawning tree-type monsters/walls which the player can (and probably has to) hack down? 05:09:19 Keskitalo: if you look at the three vaults with "forest" in name (except for due's lair end), this is about what I want to get 05:09:49 square los would probably make the game slightly harder, that's always good 05:09:51 We were discussing this yesterday for Slime, but I think Slime is rich enough atm, and the growing mechanic would befit any organic branch, such as Forest. 05:09:52 kilobyte: Yeah, they are neat. 05:09:54 dpeg: I thought about that, but hacking down plants turns out to be tedious enough in the Lair 05:10:07 kilobyte: it could be different... 05:10:21 For my 2c, I'd be ok with square LOS/ranges, abstract is good :) 05:10:30 might be enough if fungi spawn, while you are always under attack 05:10:47 Grow toadstools with tension? :) 05:10:54 let's leave the LOS for now, we will want to play the current version for some time 05:11:03 dpeg: aye 05:11:20 Keskitalo: it'd hurt anyone bar a Fedhasite a lot 05:11:21 my plan is, at least for one big level, to regenerate the map outside of LOS... and that makes most mmapping+dig games quite unviable 05:11:33 kilobyte: nice 05:11:47 would you mind sending us (the interested devs) your plan? 05:11:48 but pockets of loot guarded by plants may be good 05:11:55 Perhaps we could add ideas =) 05:12:55 syllogism: why do you think it wold make the game harder? 05:13:14 btw, I think we should go for LOS range 7 if we do square LOS 05:13:22 by: yes, absolutely 05:13:31 also good for handhelds (joking) 05:13:50 (not joking about square LOS ==> range 7 -- it's a complicated world) 05:14:12 syllogism: do you mean that it's harder to uncover the few squares you want at a time? 05:14:51 The streakers are somehow avoiding the melee combos. Leave the best for last, eh? 05:14:53 dpeg: well, there is not much non-technical stuff except for: have small clearings and irregular corridors, then regenerate the map away from the player, somehow dealing with scummability by mostly moving monsters/items rather than spawning them 05:15:07 dpeg: "the best"? 05:15:08 i'd be okay with square los 05:15:36 we overnerfed armour so badly it's MDFi who are the challenge class now 05:15:37 kilobyte: 'nother joke 05:15:46 kilobyte: greensnark unnerfed armour 05:15:56 kilobyte: so a bit like labyrinths? 05:16:04 (the regenerating bit) 05:16:11 EV is still better than armour, though 05:16:14 We should fix that 05:16:20 greensnark: EV nerf for 0.8? 05:16:35 The good thing is that 0.7 will teach everyone how powerful EV could be. 05:16:36 I mean pure combat EV > pure combat AC, and then EV makes it trivial to learn spells in addition 05:16:41 yes 05:17:17 dpeg: more like the Abyss rather than Labs, but yeah 05:17:32 kilobyte: would you mind looking at the Crypt wiki page (I just updated it) -- comments and/or something similar for Forest would be cool. 05:18:07 kilobyte: I still think that fungi growing out of nowhere (anytime, but more often with monsters around) would be cool and meaningful. 05:20:52 fungi would mean rot, but some kind of plants could be good. They could have fungus-like hp. 05:21:10 yes 05:21:17 I always suggested flowers! 05:21:42 or, a new floor type that slows down movement... like, foliage. 05:22:01 that could spawn plants, especially brambles 05:22:34 you move slowly through the thicket, and when you want to go back, brambles may suddenly spring back 05:22:48 -!- cyborgemu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:57 something like that 05:23:24 on the Crypt page I suggest (zombie) hands grabbing your feet -- wanna make sure that the effects are different enough 05:24:22 03by * r84aeac03d85f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hiscores.cc hiscores.h): Allow overriding death time in scorefile_entry, mark_milestone. 05:24:23 03by * rc843f0f8e688 10/crawl-ref/source/dbg-asrt.cc: Synchronize crash file name and milestone time stamp. (greensnark) 05:24:25 03by * rf95ccc2ee891 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove a questionable monster god gift assert. (#2192) 05:24:29 03by * r9f4615de1cd5 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Improve mons_make_god_gift diagnostics. 05:24:38 dpeg: have you seen Army of Darkness? 05:24:41 greensnark: f95ccc2ee891 above is the fix 05:25:14 I'm not that confident about the milestone time override -- definitely needs a look over and test if you want to apply it to 0.7 05:26:39 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 05:29:32 I'll pass on the time override for 0.7, it's not a killer 05:29:42 Just nice to have -log show the correct URL 05:36:24 kilobyte: no! I don't watch movies. 05:36:45 dpeg: Added my ideas on the Crypt page (silent spectre, monster alcoves) 05:40:36 03by 07stone_soup-0.7 * reafdc7099e51 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove a questionable monster god gift assert. (#2192) 05:40:37 03by 07stone_soup-0.7 * r73f6e1fae9b9 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Improve mons_make_god_gift diagnostics. 05:47:02 CAO and CDO updated to 0.7.1-15-g73f6e1f 05:49:24 brainstorm:misc:defense created -- not sure it's useful but I wanted to write these basic things down somewhere 05:49:28 dpeg: good, they're a waste of time -- but Army of Darkness had an example of what you probably want to get 05:59:30 by: Posted comments. 06:03:51 thanks 06:07:47 Damn, we've lost a spot to Sigmund and the Sea Monsters. 06:08:07 Keskitalo: Just need to finish that 15-runer of yours quick and we take it back 06:08:55 I think I'll settle for 3 runes in this one, although I'm sure it has more potential.. I'll do a DSSu allruner next. :P 06:10:47 wait what? I just got a [T]ransfer on 0.7.1 06:11:11 There was a bug fix. 06:11:17 ah 06:11:27 thanks 06:24:40 anyone remember that c-r-d post about everything being good at all, but missiles of dispersal absolutely break the game? 06:24:46 s/at/and/ 06:24:56 that was weird 06:27:26 ? 06:29:20 dispersal missiles are very nice though since they are unresistable 06:30:08 used one on a fiend on my xl9 pan run 06:30:42 oh, that was about someone being dispersed by centaurs in the vaults 06:30:55 just felt reminded of that when facing a centaur warrior just then 06:31:52 monsters with dispersal missiles are great, yes 06:32:53 I am happy with dispersal ammo (both for player and monsters) but not so with steel and reaping. 06:33:10 reaping is gone 06:33:15 except for scythes 06:33:27 In 0.8? Good! 06:33:28 albeit the code is still in 06:33:37 Steel could be called superiority.. the weight is not enough of a drawback. 06:33:58 Keskitalo: yes, not sure if we want that... One idea I had was to make them still heavier and resistant to enchantment. 06:34:23 Although, I hear merfolk javelineers enjoy their steel javelins. 06:35:18 dpeg: Could also generate them in **really** small stacks. Like 1-3. 06:35:19 The basic question (regarding ammunition) still is whether ammo enchantment really should improve damage/accuracy _and_ decrease mulching. 06:35:28 Keskitalo: true 06:36:18 dpeg: damage/accuracy for the launcher, mulching for the ammo sounded good to me a couple of months ago. 06:36:23 heh, kilobyte - there is crawl-0.5.2 console in maemo already? 06:36:40 you haven't build a console 0.7.. have you? 06:36:53 Keskitalo: yes 06:37:29 Napkin: console works just fine 06:37:54 Napkin: except for no number pad, and that's unplayable for me -- but that's no worse than laptops 06:38:07 I got used to vi-keys recently 06:38:13 dpeg: Ranged combat is so good it can certainly take the hit from no damage from ammo pluses. :P (No idea how much it is numbers, though) 06:38:20 would you make a .deb of 0.7.1 for me, kilobyte? 06:38:26 Napkin: then it would work just fine 06:38:29 or something like that 06:39:10 sure, I'll check if the official Debian packages build right on 06:39:18 \o/ 06:39:18 Now I started feeling like maybe I should do some additional runes after all.. I have Ice Storm (Fair atm), boots of running, 40 AC with Ozo's.. 06:39:22 would be awesome :)) 06:39:30 Even robust 1 and Fighting 4! 06:39:48 having a good character is a clear sign of your impending doom 06:39:58 Xiberia: Yes, these thoughts are really bad to have. 06:40:45 btw, kilobyte - have you really tried it? seems to me that the default xterm is missing dark-grey 06:41:09 at least when I ssh'ed to CDO and loaded my save 06:41:28 Napkin: yeah, that's a known bug, with a patch rotting in their bug report system for years. I have applied it, of course. 06:42:23 ahhh! 06:42:42 you haven't put up a repository yet.. have you? :D 06:42:45 Flayed ghosts should really do something.. 06:43:10 they do hit surprisingly hard if you are a conjurer type 06:43:25 damn, I should install a dev environment finally :) 06:43:29 Keskitalo: which runes do you have? 06:43:33 <3 stats returning a point at a time 06:43:40 dpeg: Barnacled and decaying. 06:44:03 Keskitalo: there's no reason not to get slimy with your setup, is there? 06:44:40 I don't have artefact gear for most of the slots I think. 06:44:41 how about adding some color to Z? screen 06:44:51 I have -5 gloves somewhere :) 06:45:34 Napkin: not yet, and to make things worse, their base system is pretty screwed up. For example, you can't install most of Debian's essential packages (and stuff relies on their presence), and in the case of libvte, they depend on an exact version. 06:45:43 And a ring mail, which sounds challenging 06:46:20 yeah, I heard that, kilobyte 06:46:21 syllogism: make a proposal! 06:46:27 for instance, spellpower bars could turn yellow once the spell hits the actual cap; I admit my motivation for this is the fact the bars are misleading, not that it actually matters 06:46:42 Napkin: so I couldn't properly label my patched build as a modified version, and it wouldn't automatically install -- nor even allow you to specify which one to use :( 06:46:42 I'd like the noisiness of spells mentioned somewhere.. 06:46:53 Napkin: so you'd need to dpkg -i that manually 06:46:59 Keskitalo: that would be nice yes 06:47:16 Keskitalo: page three? :) 06:47:21 kilobyte: well, I would pin it, that should work 06:47:30 kilobyte: not using the gui paketmanager anyways 06:47:32 and diversifying spell noise would be interesting 06:47:42 Napkin: http://angband.pl/maemo/ -- you need libvte-common and libvte4, at least 06:48:25 ah, so libvte is broken instead of xterm? 06:48:44 dpeg: That might me a little much, yeah. 06:49:25 Spell descriptions. Of course, could make something affect spell noise. 06:51:26 Napkin: osso-xterm uses libvte, yeah, and the bug is there. 07:00:39 hmm, you sure those are the right packages, kilobyte? 07:01:17 They have exactly the same version as I had installed already, and grey is still not showing up.. or maybe I need to restart all xterm? instead of starting a new one? 07:02:02 you need to restart all xterms, right 07:02:38 Ah, of course I could pick up Dig for Slime. 07:02:43 and the version number must be same as the one you had, due to the dependency screwup the maemo folks did :( 07:02:43 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:51 ..once I get two more spell levels. 07:03:16 hrm, Shoals is really a pain in the butt for a non-magic wombat with normal speed 07:04:12 especially with turtles -- they hit hard, then run away into the water not giving you a chance to follow them 07:08:20 works :D thank you, kilobyte :) 07:09:11 kilobyte: How is the build quality of your Maemo phone 07:09:13 And what model is it 07:09:50 !hs bhaak 07:09:50 196. bhaak the Basher (L12 TrBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Nikola (chain lightning) on D:15 on 2010-08-04, with 20117 points after 15187 turns and 1:38:18. 07:10:00 bhaak: Congrats, but ware of Nikola next time :) 07:10:49 I would probably have been more cautious if he would have been named Tesla :-) 07:12:57 bhaak: we expect some basic education of our players =) 07:13:03 We need a nice Russian named unique 07:13:09 Pafnuti 07:13:46 I like the sound of Mikhaylovich 07:13:59 And he did write Crime and Punishment, which is totally a Crawl topic 07:14:01 the TSO temple in the crypt guarded by an angel had a curse skull, too 07:14:03 He could, like, worship TSO 07:14:12 angel wasn't doing its job 07:14:26 dpeg: Nikola is a common name :) 07:14:27 The angel was trying to reform the curse skull 07:14:48 greensnark: I haven't noticed any build quality issues, and I'm not sure if N900 has sub-models beyond localization -- and that's just labels on the keyboard 07:15:26 So N900 is the only current Maemo phone? 07:16:04 yeah, since N8?? and N7?? were not phones 07:16:24 Does it not have an accelerometer? 07:16:52 it does 07:16:59 Oh, cool 07:17:19 hihi, nice, works fine :) 07:17:20 Have you tried playing Crawl with SSH from the phone? :) 07:17:27 i do :) 07:17:34 right now ;) 07:17:34 Napkin: Ooh, is it playable? :) 07:17:49 you need to use vi keys, since there are only four arrows :( 07:17:52 quite, yeah :) 07:17:56 99x24 :P 07:18:10 got used to vi-keys during hospital time :D 07:18:17 I have no problem with vi keys :) 07:18:25 As long as the keyboard is reasonable 07:18:46 Numpad is for the minions of Morgoth anyway :P 07:18:56 the n900 keyboard is quite good 07:19:13 * kilobyte never claimed to be among do-goodniks :p 07:19:37 compared to motorola milestone, at least, which i was told is a very bad one :D 07:19:51 I haven't seen a good Motorola phone since the 1990s :P 07:19:54 i had a milestone previously and it thought so too 07:20:04 *i thought so too 07:21:41 looking at a photo of milestone... they have a 4-row keyboard and totally waste it 07:22:21 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:43 they have a joystick on the right, but it's 4 directions only :-O 07:22:50 i was disappointed by that 07:22:55 needing to hold Fn (or Fn-lock) to write numbers is a pain, but instead of fixing that, they simply included a bigger space, alt and a couple of useless keys 07:23:00 alright, first death with the phone :D 07:23:47 n900 is a pain in that too 07:24:02 apart from holding a key to make the blue sign/number show up 07:25:13 you don't have to actually hold it, shift and fn alter the next keypress, unlike ctrl. An inconsistency that seems silly but actually makes some sense convenience-wise. 07:25:39 i know, just saying that it is possible too 07:25:44 Death has come for your giant leech zombie... 07:25:48 especially useful when typing ips 07:26:02 but still, it's fn digit fn digit2 fn digit3... or fnfn digit digit2 digit3 -- and after a dot or colon, like in an IP address, you need to press fn fn again 07:26:39 erm, I'm not arguing that it's sucky :) 07:27:03 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:10 in Crawl, the only number you press often is 5, and that can be rebound 07:30:28 -!- daftfad has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:12 an interesting thing: after ^F, enter doesn't work, had to press ^M -- but it works everywhere else. Strange. 07:34:08 going to a place after X> has that too 07:36:34 Is your enter key sending ^J perhaps 07:37:46 I guess so, that's the usual keycode 07:39:25 Just need to fix the input routines to map that to enter as well 07:47:55 hrm, the only way to deal with snapping turtles I've found so far is a weapon of reaching, where they'll sit and fight 07:48:24 (or being a conjurer, spriggan, merfolk or beoghite) 07:52:05 Complaints about turtles should be filed towards greensnark. 07:53:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:54:01 -!- xyblor has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:40 FR: allow turtles to recede into their shells when hurt, giving them insane AC 07:55:46 it may be wiser to go scum Pan for boots of lev or at least running :p 07:56:03 daftfad: that would fix that annoyance, yeah 07:56:12 I like the idea, too. 07:56:23 it's more realistic too since turtles are fairly slow? :] 07:57:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:34 daftfad: There's holes you can insert sharp things into. 07:58:02 @??snapping turtle 07:58:02 snapping turtle (03t) | Speed: 9 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | Health: 43-81 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Damage: 30(reach) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 281. 08:00:07 roll them into water, zap a wand of fire -> turtle soup 08:00:41 greensnark, btw don't know if you figured this out, but I suspect the HOPr crash was due to a beogh-penance orc coming into los 08:01:33 we figured out that this orc turned hostile somehow, so going into penance would explain that, yeah 08:01:35 daftfad: I didn't look at the issue, by did 08:04:20 -!- paxed has quit [Quit: Hus sika metsään!] 08:26:23 nice, kiloybyte found a merfolk impaler with a distortion weapon 08:36:09 still no second lord of darkness 08:36:51 @whereis dpeg 08:36:52 dpeg the Covered (L6 MDFi) is currently on D:5 after 6095 turns. 08:37:04 challenge game? 08:37:07 :) 08:37:19 just had a funny level with eye, warrior, Menkaure 08:37:23 thank god for shafts 08:38:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40:26 dpeg: It disappoints me to see you thanking figments of the imagination :P 08:41:31 dpeg: Also I'm looking forward to your inspiring win, try not to splat in the Abyss this time :P 08:41:56 @whereis greensnark 08:41:56 greensnark the Grappler (L14 GhFE), a worshipper of Vehumet, saved on Shoals:3 on 2010-08-02 after 27525 turns. 08:42:03 greensnark: I'm looking forward to your wins 08:42:03 @whereis keskitalo 08:42:04 Keskitalo the Devastator (L26 DEWz), a worshipper of Vehumet, saved on Slime:2 on 2010-08-04 after 145788 turns. 08:42:17 casmith789: Hey, I look to my team captain for inspiration :) 08:42:28 Also I probably won't be able to finish that game till the weekend 08:42:34 I hope you lead by example in what to do in shoals 08:42:49 Oh, Shoals is my favourite place to die 08:42:58 I'd hate to die anywhere else 08:43:01 :p 08:43:09 just die on shoals:1 going up 08:43:10 As it is Swamp is leading for some reason :( 08:43:19 still? 08:43:20 !lg * t place=snake|swamp|shoals s=br 08:43:21 48 games for * (t place=snake|swamp|shoals): 18x Swamp, 16x Shoals, 14x Snake 08:43:24 Aye 08:43:32 figments of imagination? 08:43:32 Shoals still holds the 0.7 lead, but Swamp is closing the gap :P 08:43:35 !lg * t place=swamp s=killer 08:43:36 18 games for * (t place=swamp): 2x an eight-headed hydra, 1x Agnes, 1x a seven-headed hydra, 1x a five-headed hydra simulacrum, 1x a nine-headed hydra, 1x a spiny frog, 1x a phantom, 1x a cyan very ugly thing, 1x a hell knight, 1x an electric eel, 1x Rupert, 1x the 27-headed Lernaean hydra, 1x Margery, 1x a six-headed hydra simulacrum, 1x a bone dragon, 1x Aizul, 1x Wayne 08:43:37 swamp is dangerous 08:43:47 very open and hard to run 08:44:06 Yeah, I almost splatted there myself :P 08:44:16 Donald had a weapon of distortion and I didn't notice till he blinked me :P 08:44:16 I think the meph nerf helped, actually 08:44:29 you can't meph everything into water anymore :p 08:44:40 I didn't have meph :( 08:44:48 I had to run like crazy :P 08:45:00 crawl message colouring could do with some work 08:45:00 And Nessos almost caught me on Swamp:1 :P 08:45:10 it's rarely the important messages that stand out 08:45:40 *** WEAPON OF DISTORTION WARNING *** 08:45:50 lol 08:46:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:26 just using one colour for this kind of message and not using every colour available for monster hitpoint information would help 08:48:25 by: would it help to draw only parts of the monster message lines in colour? 08:48:39 maybe 09:04:48 make super important messages blink or change color 09:06:55 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:44 or *gasp* add sounds 09:18:49 hi 09:20:00 Hi 09:22:41 damn antennae, they make random stuff masquerade as runes... 09:22:55 "lol" 09:22:58 ascii is glyph-starved, but let's pick something decent for Unicode 09:34:35 is it intentional that antenna detected monsters leave a red trail behind them even when they move? 09:34:45 i'm not really sure how that's useful information 09:41:57 doy: intentional, yes 09:43:47 -!- daftfad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:03 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:44 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:14 doy, explore paths are not entirely random, for monsters, once you watch where they're going for 3 ish turns, you can predict their general destination. 09:48:20 so yeah, the dots are intentional 09:48:36 helps distinguish where they've been in relation to where they're at. 09:52:24 due: Golden eyes are kinda scary in Slime! 09:55:52 Dodged like a half a dozen bolts of cold. :P 09:57:29 Keskitalo: sounds good 09:57:58 doy: you could also see it like this: the information where that spotted was two or three turns before is known to the player... so we better give it away. 09:57:59 Also, I just mastered Conjurations! Clan points! 10:00:40 dpeg: it would probably be more useful if the dots expired after a couple turns then 10:01:01 if there's more than one monster, you eventually just end up with a big mess of dots 10:01:39 that don't ever go away, even if you kill the monster that caused them 10:03:24 Uff, golden eyes can be the same colour as eyes of devastation.. 10:07:47 -!- ortoslon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:09:19 doy: yes, I agree. 10:09:25 Cryp71c: ^ Is that feasible? 10:11:07 !tell by the glass cross layout with lava outside is a pretty serious strain on cpu, wonder if there's something that could be done about that 10:11:07 doy: OK, I'll let by know. 10:13:09 doy: I'm sure something could be done about that, but I'm not sure what 10:13:09 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:20:31 dpeg, its feasible, but I can't think of a way to implement it that wouldn't be a huge strain on resources. 10:23:10 Cryp71c: okay 10:23:33 similarly, old ballisto traces and perhaps blood should go away. Will file a general FR then. 10:24:32 old ghosts too :P 10:28:05 old ballisto traces already go away, don't they? 10:28:17 they go away when the ballistos all die anyway 10:28:25 which is a useful indicator 10:29:00 sometimes a spore will explode without producing any ballistos, though 10:29:11 and then you still have the traces 10:29:17 and you can't get rid of them 10:29:20 maybe the latter should be fixed then 10:34:34 it's pretty silly how spores are basically worth 500 xp 10:34:53 hatch time on the ballisto's should be much shorter, imo 10:35:34 FRs, FRs 10:36:03 yeah i've never had trouble with ballistos in 0.7 10:36:58 yes, it's possible ballistos were nerfed too much 10:37:12 but i think it's preferable to the state before where they were basically unkillable 10:37:16 so 10:37:33 well, next step upwards 10:38:05 right 10:38:27 !tell pointless Perhaps ballistos could be boosted a little bit again. What do you think? 10:38:28 dpeg: OK, I'll let pointless know. 10:39:57 dpeg, btw, planning on making some of the nemelex changes in Mantis:1568, notably Idea 1 and 2 of your last post. 10:40:09 -!- ortoslon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:22 Cryp71c: what are these? :) 10:45:58 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:06 dpeg, piety gain from deck usage steps down as piety increases, piety gain scaled with tension, and shorter gift timeout, but piety loss when gifted decks. 10:48:17 piety gain for deck usage scaled with tension** 10:48:38 sounds like you'll never get high piety then 10:48:45 that's a lot of changes to do at once 10:49:28 syllogism, could just do the first two, they're much smaller change than the third 10:49:59 -!- mruuuu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:50:06 what about piety from decks such as wonders/dungeons 10:50:09 yeah, i think someone should go through the numbers first to make sure things make sense 11:00:43 -!- Ekaterin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:12 if you have Slow 2, you should be able to wear bardings :p 11:02:26 -!- mruuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:52 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:20 kilobyte: :) 11:23:42 Spellcasting down as well! 11:23:55 Cryp71c: yes, small steps are better 11:25:06 I survived minmay sewer w, I should get a banner 11:25:20 !vault minmay_sewer_w 11:25:23 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/47609 11:25:47 !lg * t place!=D:1 s=map 11:25:48 5233 games for * (t place!=D:1): 4618x , 54x uniq crazy yiuf cottage, 24x minmay sewer w, 12x bailey polearm 2, 9x sewer kobolds, 8x sewer frog island 02, 8x minmay sewer treatment, 7x lemuel castle, 7x bailey polearm 5, 6x shiori shiawase, 6x fedhas bush and centaur altar, 5x erik lair 3, 5x dpeg entry prison, 5x dpeg entry refuge, 5x lemuel flame loot 1, 5x bailey polearm 4, 4x erik entry orb ch... 11:25:52 i survived that too with a trusty sling :p 11:26:19 I was prepared from watching a few recordings, and still only barely made it 11:26:26 !lm . 11:26:27 8381. [2010-08-04] rob the Skirmisher (L4 DGCr) killed the ghost of robbje the Ruffian, an average TrBe of Trog on turn 2842. (Sewer) 11:26:32 though I was kind of low level 11:26:39 by: was it hard because of the ghost, or in general? 11:26:41 24/125 isn't too bad 11:26:57 no, the two frogs are the threat 11:27:00 err 70 11:27:01 I'll make it a little less cruel one of these days. 11:27:17 spiny frogs! 11:27:20 I did thoroughly enjoy the trip 11:27:52 You should hear "two croaks" upon entering the level? 11:28:05 doesn't help, at least I knew about them 11:28:20 though not sure my shouting helped 11:28:22 by: but unspoiled players won't 11:28:30 I mean as a level message. 11:29:46 don't really like that 11:30:06 okay 11:30:29 making it a bit less cruel with a small island (maybe one you need to race to get to?) or just one frog would help, though 11:30:32 it's a completely optional vault 11:30:51 and not that deadly 11:30:57 syllogism: I just wanted to warn unspoiled players. 11:31:04 it's definitely ok if people die there 11:31:12 you'll be unspoiled only once :) 11:31:17 yes 11:31:53 !lg * t map=minmay sewer w s=name 11:31:54 24 games for * (t map=minmay sewer w): 2x Delphic, 2x larasium, 2x BlueAnna, 1x cyborgemu, 1x Xiberia, 1x Frobop, 1x DatonK, 1x jokeserver, 1x robbje, 1x bhaak, 1x crawlie, 1x Phantom, 1x snoopy, 1x Izverg, 1x rramell, 1x Bucketbot, 1x Seth, 1x vorless, 1x Eifel, 1x orbekk, 1x PigVomit 11:32:21 !lg Delphic t map=minmay sewer w -tv 11:32:21 2. Delphic, XL6 SpEn, T:3267 requested for FooTV. 11:32:27 by: I was thinking of what I did to my frog vaults (which have two frogs too) - present an easily reachable exit. 11:32:59 Good to hear that you enjoyed it though - shouldn't edit it more, although it's a bit big for my tastes. 11:33:11 a reachable exit would also be a reachable place to fight from 11:33:36 Ah - you're completely in the water? That's harsh. :) 11:34:39 Keskitalo: yes, it's a long spiral -- no exit :) 11:34:48 there's an exit at the start 11:34:52 of course 11:35:29 Cryp71c: nice splat there 11:35:44 !lg larasium t map=minmay sewer w -tv 11:35:44 2. larasium, XL5 KeIE, T:4424 requested for FooTV. 11:35:51 !lg blueanna t map=minmay sewer w -tv 11:35:51 2. BlueAnna, XL4 TrBe, T:2618 requested for FooTV. 11:36:12 -!- stabwound has quit [] 11:36:44 heh, larasium was flying 11:39:47 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:18 watching these confirms my opinion that the main threat in sewers is player ghosts 11:40:19 if these three splats are typical, the vault is fine 11:41:46 rwbarton: ghosts are particularly evil in portal vaults, yes. 11:42:34 by: Could make the others meaner, then. :) 11:44:43 first time I see yiuf with the hammers 11:45:05 by: too bad? 11:45:15 I wanted to add a bit of mad flavour. 11:45:39 it's fine for me 11:45:54 (the path was paved in hammers) 11:46:49 ok 11:55:05 Considering Gehenna and Dis.. stop me!! 11:56:18 I dunno.. perhaps just straight to Zot:5 now. Yes. 12:08:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:29 -!- JamezQ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:22 Is Sigmund rarer than he used to be? 12:24:37 if you ask me, he's wimpier than he used to be 12:26:09 his stats were not changed 12:26:17 and the scythe should be better, if at all? 12:27:08 he successfully prevented my second streak 12:27:19 *attempt at 12:27:27 !lg * t killer=uniq s=killer 12:27:28 945 games for * (t killer=uniq): 215x Sigmund, 91x Terence, 90x Ijyb, 76x Crazy Yiuf, 56x Jessica, 53x Duvessa, 48x Prince Ribbit, 47x Blork the orc, 28x Menkaure, 26x Dowan, 25x Edmund, 21x Pikel, 15x Erolcha, 13x Gastronok, 10x Nessos, 9x Rupert, 9x giant spore, 9x poisonous meat, 8x Joseph, 8x Agnes, 7x Aizul, 6x Grinder, 5x poisoned blood, 5x Nikola, 5x Jozef, 5x Maurice, 5x Psyche, 5x Purgy, ... 12:27:38 looks like he's fine 12:27:43 thank you 12:27:44 !lg * t9 killer=uniq s=killer 12:27:46 2668 games for * (t9 killer=uniq): 1159x Sigmund, 430x Jessica, 344x Ijyb, 288x Terence, 162x Prince Ribbit, 50x Blork the orc, 35x Erolcha, 32x Edmund, 19x Frederick, 19x Snorg, 12x Norbert, 9x Erica, 9x Rupert, 9x Harold, 8x Jozef, 8x Agnes, 6x Psyche, 6x Margery, 6x Xtahua, 6x Antaeus, 5x Boris, 5x Azrael, 4x Tiamat, 4x Roxanne, 3x Duane, 3x Josephine, 3x Norris, 3x Michael, 3x Saint Roka, 3x S... 12:28:23 Ijyb? what lamers die to Ijyb? 12:28:30 by: yes, dividing (number of sigmunds)/(total games) after tournament will be a good comparison 12:28:59 i think he just feels wimpier because we've seriously buffed uniques in general 12:29:07 and he's one of the ones we didn't touch at all 12:30:04 maybe 12:30:10 !lg * killer=ijyb s=kaux 12:30:10 5780 games for * (killer=ijyb): 837x , 540x a +0,+0 club, 270x a +0,+0 dagger, 123x wand of flame, 115x wand of frost {zapped: 2}, 111x wand of flame {zapped: 2}, 111x wand of frost, 106x wand of frost {zapped: 3}, 93x wand of flame {zapped: 3}, 88x wand of draining, 86x wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}, 84x wand of disintegration {zapped: 2}, 84x wand of draining {zapped: 1}, 81x wand of frost ... 12:30:19 I was afraid he'd come up less often. (due and I tinkered with unique generation.) 12:30:57 if he comes up less often, then he'll be generated deeper on average, making him seem wimpier 12:31:10 and I feel like that is the case also 12:33:20 we did not twiddle with depths 12:34:26 well, there's a whole new system of unique placement since 0.5 12:34:50 if I understand correctly, there is a chance for uniques to be generated on a level when it is first entered 12:34:55 (stop me if I'm wrong) 12:35:48 if you make the chance of sigmund huge, you'll always get him on the first level you can, probably D:2 12:36:17 whereas if the chance is miniscule, he's equally likely to be generated on each possible depth 12:36:42 so on average he'll be on D:4 or so 12:39:40 I believe this is how it works because when I wizmode teleport to Tomb:1 from D:1, I often get a large number of uniques, because the pool of eligible uniques has not been reduced by generating previous levels 12:41:35 This is mildly exploitable, if you have meph cloud or are a merfolk or something you can enter shoals early to try to generate more uniques there 12:41:48 but it's probably not a large effect 12:42:21 I assumed that the chances for the various level in the specified range are the same. 12:42:43 I haven't looked at the code, just inferring from experience 12:45:45 dpeg: pretty sure what he's saying is correct, since uniques can only be generated once 12:46:19 I suspect there's a flat chance to generate each unique when an appropriate level is generated, *if* the unique hasn't been generated already 12:46:44 no, it's a bit more complicated than that 13:11:17 hydras on L:1 and D:12 :/ 13:17:52 @whereis dpeg 13:17:53 dpeg the Cleaver (L11 MDFi), a worshipper of Yredelemnul, is currently on D:11 after 16571 turns. 13:18:13 no wands? 13:18:58 maybe pain mirror will kill them directly without them fleeing? 13:19:33 @? hydra 13:19:34 hydra (09D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | Health: 52-88 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 per head | Flags: amphibious, regen | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1213. 13:19:43 ??pain mirror 13:19:44 I don't have a page labeled pain_mirror in my learndb. 13:20:03 by: good point 13:20:19 L:1 is complicated by having one of those endless SpEn ghosts :) 13:20:23 ah 13:20:37 one-on-one you should be safe vs. hydra considering you have higher maxhp 13:21:30 I should... at 110 now, with "GS 13:21:31 thanks 13:22:41 not sure how healing when chopping off heads works, though 13:24:01 by: I try to solve the issue with zombies 13:24:21 banner idea: fastest orb run. 13:25:07 Keskitalo: !learn add banner_ideas [...] 13:25:29 !learn add banner_ideas Fastest orb run. 13:25:29 banner ideas[14/14]: Fastest orb run. 13:26:05 I like how the presence of a yak pack is always good news for a Yrdy follower. 13:26:43 e - the ring "Plog" {MUT rC++ EV+6 SInv} 737 gold 13:29:11 I'm wearing the buckler of Plog {EV+5 Str+1} 13:29:39 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:39 by: I support that! 13:30:40 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:43 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:14 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:07 Butchering weapon switch is broken if interrupted (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2193) by casmith789 14:01:12 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:08 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 14:17:54 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:46 -!- JamezQ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:19:51 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:26 bah 14:28:00 Napkin: dead? 14:28:08 insane numbers of players... 14:28:15 ja, by a surprise hydra ;) 14:28:37 where? 14:29:34 axes seem very weak.. especially with this armour preventing hits.. even at armour level 10 the splint seems to prevent me from hitting 50% 14:29:47 Lair 1, dpeg 14:29:48 let me check what I have... 14:29:57 Napkin: also had a nasty L:1 hydra, see ^ 14:30:39 and i was lucky to read detect curse instead of teleport scroll by mistake :D 14:30:41 I have Axes 14, Armour 12, broad axe or war axe in use, and splint. 14:30:47 argh 14:30:49 and? 14:31:01 don't you think you are prevented to hit a bit often? 14:31:05 no 14:31:09 wow 14:31:11 aha 14:31:34 but I was lucky to find one war axe (many actually), my last MDFi essentially died from finding no axe beyond hand (even in Orc :/) 14:32:04 -!- Vandal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:08 i found broad axe in D8 where the entrance to Lair was 14:32:16 apart from that only orcish hand axes 14:32:43 broad axe early on is not good.... too slow 14:32:46 but also.. no blink and just 2 enchant weapon.. many wands though, but they were all used up 14:32:48 I check with @ all the time 14:32:51 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:55 i had no choice 14:33:05 wasn't doing any damage with hand axe +0,+1 14:33:14 sure 14:33:21 sure what? 14:33:26 did you try a lighter armour 14:33:31 sure that hand axe won't cut it 14:33:50 yeah.. i had scale until splint in d7 14:34:11 well, unlucky char 14:34:15 Napkin: what shield? 14:34:25 still, axes seem very weak to me.. 14:34:37 found a +1 dwarven shield 14:35:12 shield was at.. hmm.. level 9, i think 14:36:10 but decided to go splint, since I hadn't found any other equipment 14:36:17 will continue scale next time 14:39:07 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:46 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:07 -!- xyblor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:59:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:14 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:16 Confused Giant Eyeballs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2194) by Cryptic 15:20:21 greensnark: would it be hard to add a field to the sequell database that lists how many games were won before? 15:20:37 e.g., !lg . streak>0 ktyp!=winning s=char 15:24:13 ...that's wierd...it didn't give me credit for fruit basket.. 15:24:33 Cryp71c: takes some time 15:24:40 don't expect immediate reaction 15:24:43 dpeg, oh ok 15:24:45 didn't know that 15:25:12 dpeg: how's the MDFi going? 15:26:23 @whereis dpeg 15:26:23 dpeg the Severer (L13 MDFi), a worshipper of Yredelemnul, saved on Lair:1 on 2010-08-04 after 30707 turns. 15:27:15 by: that's the second one. This one is very viable, the first one found no axes, unfortunately. 15:27:43 Heavy armour is definitely playable (even if weaker than EV). 15:27:51 did you end up using pain mirror on a hydra 15:29:03 no, my zombies did that 15:29:13 but I used it in a lab, thanks for reminding me 15:29:17 dpeg: I think I might have the only heavy armour win of the tournament so far 15:29:25 elliptic: what combo? 15:29:35 I didn't go through and check everyone though, just the more likely combos 15:29:37 DDCK 15:29:46 elliptic: what's your opinion on the current state of AC? 15:29:51 Okay, or too weak? 15:30:00 my DSWn was in ice dragon at the end, but that doesn't really count for heavy 15:30:10 i got a ddbe to zot:5 as heavy armour 15:30:12 slightly on the weak side of okay 15:30:19 it didn't seem incredibly unviable 15:30:25 it would help if GDA was decent 15:30:34 so that people had something to look forward to 15:30:44 CPM! :) 15:31:13 I had a CPM caster a week or two ago 15:31:40 it was pretty good 15:31:44 the changes went somewhat in a bad direction I feel, making casting in heavy armour easier and meleeing worse 15:31:46 CPM caster? 15:31:58 by: the old changes or greensnark's repair? 15:31:59 !log . ddck -2 15:31:59 8. hyperbolic, XL27 DDCK, T:97240: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hyperbolic/morgue-hyperbolic-20100626-163911.txt 15:32:02 old changes 15:32:06 by: sniff 15:32:28 yeah, the 0.6 nerf made heavy armour casting somewhat easier if you have enough strength 15:32:40 and impossible if you don't have enough strength 15:32:45 but I also think greensnark's changes are mostly band-aid 15:32:58 should we start from scratch? 15:33:10 The old system (before any changes) was clearly broken, too... :( 15:33:19 yes 15:33:23 the current formulas feel better in principle than the old ones by quite a bit 15:33:32 not sure about how the exact numbers used work, but 15:33:44 doy: so one could hope that the numbers will converge to a good state eventually? 15:34:25 dpeg: i haven't really played enough heavy armour characters to tell 15:34:31 I think so 15:34:46 i've always been more of an ev fighter kind of person(: 15:34:46 it doesn't feel terribly off right now aside from GDA 15:36:01 rather than changing the formulas, I think we need to make these things measurable/testable -- that would be what I'd do given time and motivation 15:37:08 ??plate mail 15:37:08 plate mail[1/1]: +10 ac -6 ev. Weighs 65.0 aum. 15:37:12 ??gda 15:37:12 gold dragon armour[1/2]: 11 ac -9 ev +fire +cold +pois 110 aum. The best heavy armour around. Don't forget to butcher those golden dragon corpses *without* praying. One is guaranteed on Tiamat (who is not guaranteed). Remember, wearing/removing one is uninterruptible and takes forever! 15:37:18 by: well, the original formulas always suffered from some conceptual madness, iirc. (E.g. GDR implemented, but useless, too many parameters affecting everything.) 15:37:21 ??crystal plate mail 15:37:21 crystal plate mail[1/2]: 14AC, -8EV, 120 aum. The most massive heavy armour. Resists corrosion. It can be generated on D:1 very rarely. Of course, you will splat every time this happens. 15:37:42 elliptic: I think that GDA should pay with AC for the awesome resists. 15:37:49 Should make CPM less rare perhaps. 15:37:50 they aren't so awesome 15:38:02 GDA compares poorly to plate mail of rF+ 15:38:23 and 27 strength is a huge requirement 15:38:46 could make it 8ev 15:38:56 yes 15:39:16 the strictness of the strength requirement could use fixing in general, really 15:39:42 elliptic: the 4.1 system was even more drastic :) 15:39:48 if you have 20 strength, say, then you can use plate mail fine but GDA is effectively -16 EV 15:40:18 elliptic: not sure if that is bad... you can achieve the 27 if you want to 15:41:01 it just feels strange that even the last point of strength makes a large difference 15:41:15 maybe halve the penalty or something 15:41:29 Yes, we can be a bit more forgiving. But the idea that you simply won't use GDA with 18 Str (say) sounds good to me. 15:41:38 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:26 I'd at least make GDA 12 AC 15:42:55 what's plate? 15:43:04 10 15:43:48 i think making cpm more common would be a better option 15:44:04 As we speak of it... just killed Wayne (he comes with a CPM) :) 15:44:08 (: 15:45:29 wayne can generate with CPM? that's cool 15:50:19 My Snake:3 has metal walls. Could this always happen? 15:50:31 pretty sure yes 15:50:56 metal walls are an extremely rare option for any normal dungeon type layout i think 15:51:16 same sort of issue as jpeg's metal lair level a few months back 15:51:36 eventually snake will have its own layout stuff and it won't matter 15:53:22 yes! 16:07:43 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you] 16:17:44 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:00 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 16:30:23 -!- GrimmSleeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 16:33:53 lol, dpeg.. now I decided for maces.. and a goblin brings me a war axe in D3 :D 16:34:55 hehe 16:35:00 Napkin: you can still switch 16:35:30 well, a flail has similar values.. let's see :) 16:51:08 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:58:57 bye! 16:59:05 g'night! 17:02:23 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:14:11 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:13 mwahaha 17:52:41 !lg * won s=cv x=cdist(char) 17:52:42 2877 games for * (won): 838x 0.5 [355], 705x 0.4 [353], 435x 0.3 [216], 313x 0.6 [191], 157x 0.6-a [119], 149x 0.2 [79], 105x 0.7-a [80], 66x 0.7 [33], 62x 0.1 [44], 22x 0.4-a [15], 21x 0.5-a [20], 4x 0.8-a [4] 17:52:56 cdist? 17:53:03 count distinct 17:53:08 !lg * won x=cdist(char) 17:53:09 2877 games for * (won): cdist(char)=725 17:53:14 so 725 combos have been won 17:56:38 !lg * won x=cdist(crace) 17:56:39 2877 games for * (won): cdist(crace)=28 17:56:54 !lg * won x=cdist(class) 17:56:55 2877 games for * (won): cdist(cls)=30 17:59:28 !lm * type=uniq s=game_id x=cdist(noun) o=cdist(noun) 17:59:53 513656 milestones for * (type=uniq): cdist(noun)=70, 52x 718936 [52], 51x 740531 [51], 53x 679970 [50], 50x 544892 [50], 53x 495696 [49], 48x 663098 [48], 48x 708013 [48], 49x 678981 [48], 51x 514446 [47], 47x 518249 [47], 46x 729066 [46], 47x 739619 [46], 47x 616145 [46], 46x 711023 [46], 47x 514456 [45], 46x 732668 [45], 45x 651577 [45], 45x 685889 [45], 46x 529379 [45], 45x 616588 [45], 45x 522... 18:01:24 !log * id=718936 18:01:25 1. WereDictionary, XL27 HECr, T:254439: http://rl.heh.fi/crawl-0.6/stuff/WereDictionary/morgue-WereDictionary-20100508-231201.txt 18:09:19 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:54 isn't pbd supposed to be capped at 7 corpses 18:18:13 you can regen like 100hp a turn if you spawm kiku cadavers a bit 18:19:45 spam* 18:33:56 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:48:41 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:48 does swamp have more insubstantial wisps than it used to? 19:22:19 it certainly feels that way 19:28:40 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:35:49 antennae, breathe flames, mapping, powered by death, green scales 19:35:55 i'm liking these new demonspawn 19:35:56 (: 20:37:20 think I'll do a DS next :P 20:37:25 they're one of the more interesting races 20:38:55 btw who is clouded? 20:54:02 clouded is st_ 21:02:01 -!- JamezQ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:13 Crash when invoking lugonu's corruption (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2195) by nicooo 21:03:46 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:30 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 21:27:36 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 21:29:41 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:58 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:30:00 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 21:30:16 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:26 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:15 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:42 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:33 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:55 -!- Gretell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:20:55 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:18 l 22:52:14 k 22:52:26 -!- mruuuu has quit [Quit: mruuuu] 22:53:41 -!- mruuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:06 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:21 ??throwing 23:00:24 ranged combat[1/2]: For a thorough examination of ranged combat, see http://chaosforge.org/crawl/index.php?title=Talk:Missile 23:00:49 where is everyone? 23:00:59 in ##crawl 23:01:49 lol 23:01:58 I am in california, san jose 23:02:54 oh i am in crawl-dev! apologies! was confused because of being used to a much higher message rate 23:03:18 :) I assumed as much from your henzell query 23:04:40 though i think i'm going to start hanging out in here more instead. am finding that i'm enjoying thinking about the game, mechanics, dev, etc more than playing it