00:12:47 created, xyblor 00:18:08 you aren't just going to give him a page create bit? 00:18:09 Napkin: thanks :) 00:23:12 If you would like to get the permission bit to create pages, please create a ticket to the wiki mantis-project, xyblor 00:23:27 okay 01:09:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:52 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:27 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 02:05:19 yo 02:10:51 usted? 02:13:16 spanish pronoun classes? 02:15:39 -!- elly has quit [Quit: gone] 02:17:55 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:31 -!- Niccus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:38 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:20 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:41 !seen Cryp71c 03:22:41 I last saw Cryp71c at Mon Jun 21 22:03:25 2010 UTC (10h 19m 16s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 03:23:34 !tell Cryp71c I finally have a DG :) Plays much better than before. Should we have messages when the DG (dis)appears? Do we want to change the A line, e.g. "In trouble, a [foo] DG may appear."? 03:23:34 dpeg: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 03:32:13 dpeg, yo. 03:33:29 Hi due! 03:33:43 No time yet for setting up map testing :( 03:34:03 But the stream of Lair:$ vaults, their themes and look is very cool :) 03:38:00 :) 03:38:02 Did you get my email? 03:40:04 dpeg: Are we happy with always getting a Lair:$vault,or would we rather it was randomised? 03:40:49 initfile.cc:316: warning: ‘game_type _str_to_gametype(const std::string&)’ defined but not used 03:40:50 due: yes, and I will reply.- 03:40:58 exceellent, thanks 03:41:13 due: hm, good question. No idea :) 03:41:36 We could add a couple of medium-weight smaller vaults. 03:41:42 That way you get a chance of gettinganiceending. 03:41:52 I'll make some smallish Lair:$ vaults at some point (similar to my tiny Crypt ending), so that sometimes you won't get a Lair ending which defines that level completely. 03:41:56 :) 03:42:04 :) 03:42:15 I like using edge-of-map vaults, too. 03:42:22 Middle-of-the-level just seems strageinLair. 03:42:41 yes, I agree 03:43:26 I like that the arugably silly idea of dire elephants got in without complaints... cannot sensibly discuss/defend humour and it's much easier to remove silly pieces than to add them. 03:43:51 * due grins 03:50:04 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:33 hey mu! 03:53:46 duey 03:56:58 Hi! 03:58:00 dpeg my sprint map is almost completed, should only be a few more days 03:58:06 (it's also really bad :p) 04:00:50 it can't be that bad 04:05:30 also due, greensnark fixed the nonexistant statues coming to life thing :3 04:05:40 Mu_: if it's Mu-bad, we'll take it :) 04:05:45 in dis_mu at least 04:05:50 Mu_: yay 04:06:11 dpeg: i think there might be way too much XP in the map :p 04:06:29 Mu_: we'll test :) 04:13:35 -!- CIA-41 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:48 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:30 -!- CIA-39 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:09 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:56 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:27 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:02 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:27 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:09 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:34 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:10 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:17 -!- Niccus has left ##crawl-dev 05:08:21 is there a maximum number of enemies that a map can have? 05:08:26 yes 05:08:47 Mu_: I learned this when I made an oklob vault with very many (ordinary) plants. Something like 250. 05:09:10 i think i am hitting that limit also 05:09:44 Mu_: arg 05:09:56 need the shop / item / monster limit relaxed for sprint map ;p 05:09:58 There's no error message either, just some monsters will be missing :( 05:10:04 Mu_: yes :) 05:10:20 !tell greensnark Mu: need the shop / item / monster limit relaxed for sprint map ;p 05:10:21 dpeg: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 05:10:31 :) 05:12:30 Mu_: the most important feature of a Sprint map is that it's deadly =) 05:13:18 i'll leave tweaking up to people who are better at sprint ;p 05:15:31 Mu_: did you win? 05:22:56 dpeg i have never beaten sprint 05:25:39 Mu_ is sonja in your map 05:26:10 i tried to avoid uniques that are in the original 05:26:13 Mu_: that's okay. I think I have some understanding of Sprint (and abuses). 05:26:16 Mu_: <3 05:26:36 Mu_: <3 05:26:40 Mu_: please act conspiratively: don't make the map public. 05:26:51 ok 05:27:16 sonja may or may not be on a map that is or is not mine 05:28:00 :) 05:28:14 * dpeg nominates Mu for president: clear speech! 05:28:32 ;-) 05:29:49 03dpeg * r786454b12c63 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/entry.des: Entry vault tweaks. 05:34:48 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:52 ok i'm gonna wait until the monster limit is increased before i keep workin on it 05:52:05 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:08 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:34 dpeg: Yo, got your email 06:34:39 dpeg: You want me to tune theloot down? 06:36:11 due: what do you think? 06:36:41 With the current approach, Lair:$ would be another loot station... I'd like it better if it was an xp pool rather. 06:36:57 Can you think of fitting items (for the various Lair endings)? 06:38:24 bhaak: very nice rgrn post :) 06:44:16 Sure. 06:44:33 I'll keep tthe loot in jungle_book, butI can dump itin the rest of them. 06:45:32 -!- Luca__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49:45 dpeg: thx :-) 06:51:23 due: okay! 06:51:35 I will have a closer look at some point, and also make one or two ends of my own, promised. 07:00:23 excellent 07:00:34 I'm going to do a bear ending. 07:06:02 ;) 07:06:45 Mrowl 07:06:45 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:06:55 I think someone already increased item counts, right? 07:07:03 here? 07:07:28 *where? 07:07:40 Well, the item limit is 600 07:07:51 Where it used to be 350 or so 07:07:54 ah 07:07:57 Er, not 350 07:08:04 But less than 600 :) 07:08:19 it's the monster limit i'm bumping against atm :3 07:09:50 really? cool 07:11:02 I'm in the middle of something else, but I'll get to it in a minuteish 07:11:50 I hope not the middle of an ocean. 07:13:12 @?wizard 07:13:12 wizard (06@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 20-60 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 6 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(53) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 710 | Sp: b.venom, mystic blast, invisibility, confuse, slow, teleport self / magic dart, paralyse, haste, b.lightning, confuse, teleport self / paralyse, crystal spear, blink, b.fire, b.cold, minor healing / paralyse, throw flame, invisibility, teleport other, fireb.. 07:24:57 ??tree 07:24:57 trees[1/3]: A new type of feature, represented by a 7. A single tree does not block LOS, though two do. 07:25:04 ??tree[2] 07:25:04 I don't have a page labeled tree[2] in my learndb. 07:25:09 ??trees[2] 07:25:09 trees[2/3]: Lightning bolts and fire bolts will both set them ablaze, causing flame clouds that wander a bit. Don't get too close! 07:25:16 ??trees[3] 07:25:16 trees[3/3]: Fireball cast at a tree will center on it, unlike when cast at a wall, and will hit enemies on the other side. Use to your advantage! 07:25:34 Xiberia: @@crawl is that way. 07:25:48 *##crawl 07:26:02 ohs 07:26:04 sorry 07:26:13 that is okay 07:26:18 dpeg: I am making a newunique. 07:27:00 due: what type? 07:27:04 a spriggan wizard? 07:27:28 no 07:27:30 Grinder. 07:29:56 :) 07:30:07 ty greensnark 07:30:28 plus if you can let me put returning on a large rock too that would be great :p 07:31:39 no 07:31:45 large rocks will remain unbranded 07:31:47 so sayeth the dpeg 07:31:49 so sayeth i 07:31:51 amen 07:32:49 well, if Mu needs a large rock of returning in a Sprint map, that could be okay :) 07:33:12 I definitely don't want players to brand their Crawl large rocks themselves. 07:34:00 I still think Antaeus should get a large iron ball of returning instead of his lightning bolts 07:34:27 agree 07:34:34 dpeg: well 07:34:44 dpeg: we can have large rocks of returning and not allow the player to do so 07:35:21 yes 07:41:07 I thought KiloByte would make that change 07:41:14 Ok, I can do that too 07:42:00 @?shadow imp 07:42:01 shadow imp (065) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 6 | Flags: 05demonic, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 11 | Sp: pain, animate dead. 07:42:05 greensnark: it's best to have two levels of strictness there 07:43:44 a rock of returning... do you think mulching would be enough? 07:44:44 03greensnark * r154e321cbb49 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-overview.cc show.cc): Fire player-in-los from show_def update rather than seen_notable_thing, so that markers don't have to be notable to be notified of the player charging into LOS. 07:44:47 03greensnark * r3e4f4ef9e85c 10/crawl-ref/ (32 files in 4 dirs): Allow corpses to be placed in .des files. 07:46:24 should Zin allow +INT/+STR/+DEX mutations? He currently does, and this sounds wrong. 07:48:12 does 0.6.1 change the monster double-attack thing? 07:51:17 no, bug fixes only. 07:51:30 KiloByte: we don't have any balancing tool apart from mulching for returning rocks, do we? 07:51:40 a weaker case of energy randomization is in 0.7, though 07:51:51 due: I am fine with an iron ball for Antaeus, as long the demon gets them back every time :) 07:51:52 ah 07:53:20 the only races that can use rocks are either glass pistols or have an overwhelming food problem in the Hells, so I don't think we have to work hard to balance that single rock 07:53:49 greensnark: thanks for the corpses. 07:54:04 This means we can provide loot for Necromancers and Yrdies :) 07:54:28 KiloByte: yes. I just don't want the Troll Hunter to pick up Antaeus ball and kill the demon with it. 07:58:21 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:53 KiloByte: only races that can use rocks? 08:01:24 pineapple: ogres and trolls 08:01:38 oh, rocks, not stones 08:01:48 glass pistols? 08:05:17 sex pistols 08:05:43 dpeg probably remembers them :P 08:06:09 be nice to old people! 08:08:39 dpeg's safely far away in Germany where I don't have to fear his Taekwondo skills :P 08:10:08 God saves the Queen! 08:11:05 Holy heck, he remembers :P 08:11:40 Hi Enne! 08:11:53 @?shadow imp 08:11:53 shadow imp (065) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 6 | Flags: 05demonic, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 11 | Sp: pain, animate dead. 08:12:46 Malcolm McLaren died recently. 08:13:14 bhaak: people don't reply to your blasphemy which proves that rgrn sucks. 08:13:24 Is vampiricdraining implemented as a monster spell? 08:14:09 What, bhaak has been blaspheming on rgrn? 08:14:11 * greensnark reads. 08:14:20 Swiss are way too polite anyway 08:14:40 Everyone probably got the impression that bhaak <3 NH devteam's work entirely 08:16:23 'Partly due to NetHack's legacy code behavior of #define-ing every 08:16:25 fucking small feature' 08:16:26 what work? 08:16:40 bhaak used the word "fucking"! 08:16:49 bhaak: Congratulations :) 08:17:02 dpeg: I've heard that there are people who "work" during the day. I have no idea what it may be but it seems to occupy most of the day for those people. and then it's only morning in the usa. :) 08:17:10 bhaak is one of the few people who are far more polished on IRC than on Usenet :P 08:17:24 greensnark: I'm extremely eloquent! 08:17:53 due: You need to fix your space bar sometime soon :P 08:17:58 greensnark: first ever compliment I got for cursing :) 08:18:15 greensnark: I've tried. I had it off most of yesterday. 08:18:33 greensnark: The issue is that the edges don't pick up if you hit it there, therefore, I have to move my thumb about an inch to the left. 08:19:12 due: you need a foot pedal for Space, that will solve the problem. 08:19:34 due: CamelCaseWritingWouldHelpAndItWouldEvenSaveSomeSpace! 08:19:50 bhaak: It drives me crazy. 08:20:03 Trust german speakers to prefer wordsweldedtogetherwithoutletorseam 08:20:05 Problem is that I've so used to typing with the space bar key that I couldn't even switch to anything else. 08:20:55 Grinder's going to be nasty. 08:21:56 Oh wow, bhaak's response to APLer was smokin' :P 08:22:05 bhaak: You should have APLer plonked by now, though :P 08:23:18 due: I have a space bar on my laptop that is slightly uneven. the left side is higher than the right. even that is extremly annoying. if the space bar were more unfunctional, I would probably plug in an USB keyboard 08:24:48 !send bhaak sandpaper 08:24:48 Sending sandpaper to bhaak. 08:25:25 greensnark: he used to worse. I haven't plonked him as you regularly can reply to some parts of his postings and go in completely different directions. :) 08:25:28 I just default to hitting the corner closest to the alt key. 08:26:23 dpeg: for the space bar or my fingers? I don't like to vandalize my own hardware 08:27:21 both. 08:27:34 I see Spork has balance changes for purple worms <3 08:28:08 greensnark: huh? since when and what? 08:28:13 bhaak: a space bar sandpapered is better than a space bar unused. 08:28:23 bhaak: lorimer seemed to hint at that in his response to Janis 08:28:34 dpeg: I am using it, I just have to hit it harder 08:28:39 I was just skimming upscored rgrn posts 08:29:24 bhaak: slrni1kps1.apn.derek@still.just.a.spamtrap.org 08:29:52 is there an easy way to read upscored google groups postings? 08:30:01 Oh, no idea 08:30:04 That was fun. 08:30:08 I use Gnus 08:30:12 Early unique with paralyse, go me! 08:30:17 I only look at RGRN when someone on IRC tells me someone posted something funny. bhaak, that was awesome. :) 08:30:36 greensnark: oh, local scored. yeah, I'm using Gnus, too 08:30:36 03due * rda91a2c190f7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Tweak to Lair ending vaults (dpeg) 08:30:39 03due * r5277ed4c47f2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 4 dirs): New unique: Grinder the shadow imp. 08:30:43 rax: thanks :) 08:31:04 @?sigmund 08:31:05 Sigmund (08@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 30 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(12) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 104 | Sp: throw flame, confuse, invisibility, magic dart. 08:31:18 bhaak: you sound slightly like a Crawl fanboy in that rant :) 08:31:52 bhaak: "object-covered stairs" was calculated to make dpeg happy 08:32:35 * due updates @??. 08:32:44 * dpeg is easy to please. 08:32:52 dpeg: Grinder! 08:32:58 I want a unique sprigga bersrerker. 08:32:59 due: If you've just pushed to SF, you should pull from source/monster/crawl-ref 08:33:04 hmm, I thought the autoexplore did it. object-covered stairs is my pet peeve :) 08:33:05 Otherwise it will use the CDO repo 08:33:09 Cheap thrills, some sex, some violence, a grinder -- voila. 08:33:16 greensnark: I told it to pull from SF 08:33:17 Which updates only once in 5 or 10 mins iirc 08:33:20 Ok 08:33:28 Yes, this confused me earlier 08:33:36 Shower while it compiles. 08:33:43 You should just update the mingw tiles build first :) 08:33:48 That'll also update the CDO git repo for you 08:33:55 And ortoslon can stop bugging you P 08:34:33 bhaak: dpeg proposed highlighting covered stairs for Crawl 08:34:52 bhaak: and he got them! 08:34:54 Took a bit of persistence from him before it happened :) 08:34:59 indeed :) 08:35:05 greensnark: highlighting? how? 08:35:29 bhaak: inverse colour for covered stairs 08:35:30 greensnark: I already updated it a few hours 08:35:43 The stair symbol is always shown, but if it has items on it it's shown in inverse 08:36:04 *ago. 08:37:01 greensnark: ok, I just logged in and looked at it. Looks weird. You shouldn't always get him what he wants. That spoils him. 08:37:30 It was a good idea though :) 08:37:40 is there an option against it? ;) 08:37:40 I like it. 08:37:43 bhaak: we had similar "branding" for heaps of items before. 08:37:44 bhaak: sure. 08:37:48 bhaak: There's always an option :) 08:37:52 @??grinder 08:37:52 Grinder (025) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 11 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 249 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink, brain feed. 08:37:56 my buff littleimp <3 08:37:59 Although this distresses believers in simplicity :P 08:37:59 "If in doubt, add an option." 08:38:07 oops, health 08:38:25 Where do the lucky victims of Grinder meet him? 08:38:29 Or her as the case may be 08:38:32 @?shadow imp 08:38:32 shadow imp (065) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 6 | Flags: 05demonic, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 11 | Sp: pain, animate dead. 08:38:37 16 "lol" 08:38:39 considering that crawl doesn't allow to edit options in-game, not the best advice :-) 08:38:52 D:7-12. 08:39:04 bhaak: NH allows you to edit options at great pain, which it then forgets when you start a new game :P 08:39:23 03due * re8f1face6c24 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Fix Grinder's variable HP. 08:39:24 Glass houses, meet stones :) 08:39:58 qui m'a beepé? 08:40:11 lorimer: bhaak is interested in your purple worm shenanigans 08:40:12 lorimer: greensnark did it! 08:40:15 ahhh 08:40:40 lorimer: greensnark got the impression from a rgrn posting that you somehow nerfed tame purple worms? 08:40:41 Poor Janis 08:40:52 i have not yet added them, but mostly it involves the critter doing damage on the way down or only having a chance at autoglomp based on size and level 08:40:53 bhaak: theses branded stairs look a lot nicer with *_brand = underline 08:41:06 greensnark: he plays vanilla. he got what he deserves. :) 08:41:18 * due cheats. 08:41:20 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:31 Wait, lorimer exists 08:41:33 ? 08:41:35 Wow! 08:41:38 @??grinder 08:41:39 Grinder (025) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 11 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 281 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink, brain feed. 08:41:45 excellent! 08:41:56 He may be a bit buff. 08:42:00 @??shadow imp 08:42:00 shadow imp (065) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 6 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 11 | Sp: pain (d8), animate dead. 08:42:25 lorimer: i understood no single word 08:42:30 Poor_Yurik: needs shadow imp tile :) 08:43:08 those americans, can't they just speak simple bad english like the rest of the world? 08:43:11 rax: it is a house thing. :D 08:44:10 bhaak: the planned changes are either having the monster do damage to the purple worm from inside (as an @ would do) and still get eaten, or having the purple worm only have a chance to get an instakill based on how big the target monster is and possibly how high level 08:44:29 ie. purple worms can glomp shriekers and kobolds 100%, but quest leaders only 20% 08:45:03 ah 08:45:05 rax: all my spare time is being consumed painting things, yardworking things, etc. 08:45:17 lorimer: Believe me, I know the feeling. :) 08:47:22 by: you're the second person to tell me today that he likes underline more than inverse. but I feel different 08:47:54 bhaak: what do you like? How would/will you indicate that some space has both a stair and an item? 08:52:19 dpeg: I don't know. Wouldn't it be enough if the stairs were only visible in the examine level map? having higlighted stairs with objects on it feels weird, as if the stairs were floating above the items 08:53:21 bhaak: it is your game, but I think most Crawlers are very happy with spotting features (like stairs) at a glance, on the main screen. 08:53:40 Also note that Crawl's dungeons are large and feature many stairs (this is why colours are important). 08:54:36 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:41 Cryp71c: Hi! 08:54:43 bhaak: Crawl's level views aim to be stylised and present information rather than look realistic :) 08:54:44 Morning 08:54:45 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:54:47 !messages 08:54:48 (1/1) dpeg said (5h 31m 14s ago): I finally have a DG :) Plays much better than before. Should we have messages when the DG (dis)appears? Do we want to change the A line, e.g. "In trouble, a [foo] DG may appear."? 08:55:00 People who want realistic levels won't be playing ascii anyway :) 08:55:07 greensnark, unicode! 08:55:07 dpeg: are you consistent with the dungeon feature highlighting? are altars also highlighted this way 08:55:41 bhaak: yes. Also, item heaps are branded (and the player can set how). Monsters can be branded, too. 08:55:53 "Crawl, now branding everything." 08:55:53 dpeg, there are messages when they disappear, but not when they appear. the message says something about a "puff of smoke" and the A line could be changed, certainly. 08:56:10 greensnark: if that were true, the abbreviation NHINRL would never have been invented. :-) 08:56:30 you just want to introduce commercials! 08:57:04 Cryp71c: Something like "A [adjective] demon rushes to your help." or so? 08:57:42 aid wouldwork better. 08:58:44 sure 08:59:10 Demonic guardian still looked overpowered 08:59:30 Xiberia was in Lair and his 5s were swarming a spiny frog so much he practically could just sit by and watch it go down 08:59:44 Is it demonic guardian or demonic army :P 08:59:51 army! 09:00:22 greensnark: it is playing very differently than a summoner, though. 09:00:25 I thought it gave a single demon to help and then I see these screenshots with 6 exes 09:00:37 dpeg: I'm not worried about playstyle difference, but about brokenness 09:00:45 felirx: these must be old :) 09:00:54 syllogism- was getting a continuous stream of 1 against Antaeus 09:01:04 dpeg: consistency is great! I can almost accept anything, as long as it's consistent :-) 09:01:06 Old DS were strong enough, new DS are stronger with no drawbacks 09:01:13 btw, it is very hard and slow to type in qwerty :( 09:01:14 We need to balance the new mutations 09:01:33 Yes, the problem is that you can get multiple DGs for the same cause. 09:01:34 Making them atheism would make me never ever want to play DS. 09:01:51 greensnark: the DS mutations are getting balanced. 09:01:58 dpeg: Ok, cool 09:02:01 But in time for 0.7? :) 09:02:04 yes 09:02:23 Are we branching soon? 09:02:30 we should 09:02:39 Tonight I will set up a new mail on 0.7, okay? 09:02:48 Who's going to be 0.7 release manager :) 09:02:55 not me 09:02:57 not me 09:02:58 I vote for greensnark 09:03:01 yes! 09:03:08 No, my time availability is uncertain 09:03:12 felirx? 09:03:27 greensnark: ah, it looked somewhat reliable... 09:03:36 by: Want to be release manage? :) 09:03:43 don't have time 09:03:43 For the fame and glory! 09:03:55 New tile for Snorg (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1808) by coolio 09:04:16 rob, do it! 09:04:27 I will spend time on the weekends for tourney work, but I have lots of RL work that will consume weekdays 09:04:42 awww how cute 09:04:45 Enne, new snorg! 09:04:46 re tourney: rax, we need your input 09:05:05 Loin cloth! 09:05:18 That's so great. 09:05:22 I knoow. 09:06:04 Cryp71c: when the game is rolling for (another) DG, the already existing DGs are taken into tension account, right? We could prevent the chaining by (a) asking that tension increased since the last recent DG was issued and/or (b) have recently created DGs increase the tension counter (even if they're away or dead). 09:06:22 Enne: Oh,I compiled yuriktilse:+100. 09:06:36 dpeg: Yes, I know. 09:06:43 rax: okay! 09:07:44 dpeg, yes, friendly monsters affect tension on the exact same scale that an enemy monster of the same type would. The problem - I suspect - is that tension does not work on a (relatively) fixed-number system (like HD), instead...it works on experience value of a monster, which is great in theory, but is turning out to be difficult to adjust the formula for guardian spawning. 09:08:16 Enne: (I really dislike the current default rock tile anyway, this one is much nicer, and moodier.) 09:08:32 dpeg, also, tension iterates through all monsters, not just those in LOS, meaning people can get monsters in strange situations (no monsters in sight, but a few powerful ones are close by and are heading in your direction) 09:08:33 Cryp71c: I think tension works quite well for deciding when to send a DG. 09:08:46 Cryp71c: yes, I noted this. 09:08:55 We really need a tension iterator that only works on LOS. 09:09:15 I've still noticed some inconsistencies. For example, you'll get multiple '5's when confronted with a single imp 09:09:31 Also, can you try to run around with tough monsters on your heels, so as to increase chances of DG spawning? 09:09:39 Which is counterintuitive since a single friendly imp should counter the threat of a single enemy imp...but obviously it does not. 09:10:12 dpeg: SA mentioned they could wait around a corner from a tough enemy and their guardians would run and beat it up while they crouched in safety 09:10:13 dpeg, you can, but there's comparatively little randomness (there is some, but not much) in the formula..so if you don't get a DG in the first 5-7 turns, you're likely not going to get one. 09:10:24 There was also mention of knowing a dangerous monster was around a corner by the spawning of DGs 09:10:32 my DG had a orc fort, with nine wargs in sight... later there were two orc knights, all on D:7 :) 09:10:41 greensnark, that is only true if the monster knows where you're at and is already coming for you. 09:10:42 i.e. if a bad monster is on the other side of a one-thick wall, you'll get DG sprouting around you 09:10:58 and if their travel path is <= 3 from you 09:11:04 Cryp71c: I have no idea if these claims are true, just passing them on 09:11:07 greensnark: that's a problem with more than just DG, I think. 09:11:08 certainly 09:11:18 dpeg: How is it a problem for anything else? 09:11:24 I believe it's best to restrict DG checking to LOS. 09:11:32 Yes, tension checks should use only LOS 09:11:37 greensnark: I thought this could be related to broken pathing for monsters. 09:11:45 Now that's the question, should all tension use only LOS, or only guardian? 09:11:59 Where else is tension used? Xom... 09:12:03 I'd imagine all tension checks should use LOS only 09:12:03 Onlyxom 09:12:12 (presently) 09:12:26 yes, this use (and future uses I have in mind) would work better with LOS 09:12:36 k, I'll format a patch for it. 09:12:41 as well as the 'A' screen change. 09:12:43 thanks! 09:14:55 Cryp71c: regarding my above ideas: for (b), you'd add something like XL*constant to tension and count that down. For (a), you would store the turncount and the tension of the last DG and ask that tension is sufficiently higher than that if you want to issue another DG soon enough later. (I guess these would give the same effect, only different means to get there.) 09:16:57 dpeg, wait, which above ideas? 09:19:23 Cryp71c: when the game is rolling for (another) DG, the already existing DGs are taken into tension account, right? We could prevent the chaining by (a) asking that tension increased since the last recent DG was issued and/or (b) have recently created DGs increase the tension counter (even if they're away or dead). 09:21:33 03dolorous * r0370aed6a7d2 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/monster_speech.txt: Update documentation to account for monster name changes, etc. 09:22:02 ah, thanks. Well, the way guardian works presently is that we get the tension for the current player. Say there's an ogre around and - given the players xl and condition - the tension for that is 110. I multiply that tension by 3/4 (so 110 becomes 82.5) and check if that number is > mutlevel * 6 + random2(mutlevel^2 * 2) 09:23:03 dpeg, if it is, then tension is high enough for another guardian to be spawned, if it is not, a bit of other code loops through all nearby guardians, dismissing them until the tension is sufficiently balanced. 09:23:04 Cryp71c: sure, but what about subsequent DGs? 09:23:13 ah 09:23:26 So tension should never be way off the mark. 09:23:29 For example 09:23:44 you may get 3 '3' demons when boris comes into range. 09:23:52 that's okay, of course 09:24:11 But when he gets down to say, yellow health (health affects tension), those '3' demons will start to disappear because the tension isn't high enough to warrant their continued presence. 09:24:20 that is also okay 09:24:23 Right 09:25:42 I think this is a good system, since it is constantly adjusting the presence of the guardian. If the numbers need to be changed for longer "timeout" when a guardian is spawned (spawning a guardian results in a timeout of (mutlevel * 5 + 10)/10 turns) 09:25:52 or for other balance, I can manage that. 09:26:23 cool 09:26:40 or, instead of adjusting, what about a number "tension taken care of", which increases for every DG summoned and decreases with time? 09:26:44 I will play in wizmode later today. Actual games are not good enough :) 09:27:00 KiloByte: that was my proposal! 09:27:02 one of them 09:27:03 it would work similar to a timeout, except that Boris or Cerebov would let you still have several guardians pop out 09:27:15 I'm not sure I follow you're guys' proposal. 09:27:34 Perhaps my brain isn't quite up to snuff today 09:27:45 ah, (b) have recently created DGs increase the tension counter (even if they're away or dead). 09:27:52 yes 09:28:18 Tension is not always a positive number. Enemies make tension go higher, friendlies make tension go lower. 09:28:27 SO you can have negative tension if you have lots of allies around, but no enemies. 09:28:41 Or are you guys talking about something different when you refer to a "tension counter" ? 09:29:09 yeah, what dpeg said seems to be reversed if you assume that tension is that "tension counter" 09:30:02 03dolorous * r69ce21157e66 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Typo fix. 09:30:23 if recent DGs keep getting accounted for even if they die, you'll get a burst of allies when a big enemy comes, but they won't keep spawning anew 09:30:28 I know about the tension bits -- I suggested it =) 09:30:46 KiloByte: yes. I think that'd be good. 09:31:13 greensnark: no (re release manager) 09:31:20 lol 09:31:30 We need to hire one! 09:31:33 dpeg, ah so you're talking about keeping track of guardians, even if they were killed. 09:31:34 by: Hi! 09:31:48 hi dpeg 09:32:35 Cryp71c: that's one approach, yes. In my game, I had (in somewhat extreme conditions, granted) DGs die and spawn (when we're fighting some tough set of monsters, but no new enemies coming to the party). 09:32:46 by: Aw :( 09:33:30 dpeg, right, that is because the system will only spawn 1 demon at a time, and (obviously) when a demon dies, its tension isn't counted anymore. 09:33:37 yes 09:33:42 That's the reason 5's are effective for their mobbing. 09:33:56 5's are always good early on 09:34:43 I think the DG should be more "this is going to be tough, here's some help, make good use of it" than "here's an endless source of help", because the latter is like a summoner and the former is not. 09:35:57 I heard Napkin likes to release things on SF 09:36:27 A release manager has to decide what new commits go into the 0.7 branch. 09:37:10 And they have to spank people who are being naughty 09:37:15 yes 09:37:20 dpeg, I'll adjust tension to LOS and increase the spawning timeout and see how that goes, in the meantime I'll prepare a commit for a cap on the number of spawnable guardians, regardless of the current tension. 09:37:22 I wonder if doy would be interested in taking some time off work :P 09:37:25 doy was good at spanking. 09:37:27 And being release manager again 09:37:42 Cryp71c: cool! 09:37:51 what's doy busy with? 09:38:01 I'd rather not change everything at once, since it makes adjusting it harder (since so much was change simultaneously) 09:38:16 yes 09:38:49 we definitely want LOS-tensions, so that can come together with a spawning change 09:38:56 03dolorous * r4c8eeae0027e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Add formatting fixes. 09:42:33 dpeg, also, there's a BR that nightstalker should affect the range of things (you can presently shoot at things outside of LOS using shift-direction), which seemed rather...strange and counterintuitive. Wanted to get your take on it before I replied. 09:43:24 You don't need Shift-dir for that :) 09:45:11 We have to stick with the original ranges... if that's too bad, then the mutation has to go. At NS 3, LOS is so small that all ranged combat becomes moot, right? We'd be forcing that DS into melee and stab. It is good that a nightstalking DS plays well with these styles, but that shouldn't be all, imo. 09:46:43 most spell rangers have been so nerfed that they are within NS sight 09:46:53 but not bows/darts 09:46:58 s/rangers/ranges/ 09:47:40 dpeg, k, that's what I thought too. 09:48:40 it might be an improvement over 0.6 if we unconditionally allowed targeting out-of-Los squares 09:49:36 that's pretty bad since monsters can't handle that well 09:49:53 and in particular, immobile monsters would be sitting ducks 09:50:12 what about allowing it, but not having it always be accurate 09:50:13 ? 09:50:41 I was just talking about targeting, not being able to hit 09:50:53 hmm... 09:51:04 it would at least remove the distinction between shift-target and other targeting 09:51:07 allowing it at all lets people scum in such cases 09:51:41 it's sort of an orthogonal change to the range changes 09:52:10 -!- xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:11 I've always found it to be annoying that I couldn't dig towards arbitrary squares 09:52:20 before, you could grab a bow and arrows, and with 0 skill kill any oklob/curse skull 09:53:02 now you can probably do that if you grab a lantern of shadows and use thrown weapons or magic dart? 09:53:09 off to exercises 09:53:10 yeah, dig has no reason to require LOS 09:54:33 we could allow targeting outside LOS and still not firing beyond LOS 09:54:35 or in 0.6 you could do that diagonally, an abuse some people consider to be a necessity 09:55:12 is it useful for anything other than dig? 09:55:57 in conjunction with LOS-blocking clouds 09:58:19 you're still in LOS for the effect's purpose 10:01:39 03greensnark * rb4fa663e1c51 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Increase item limits, decouple NON_foo from MAX_foo; save major version changed. 10:01:39 "Sorry, you can't target what you can't see." 10:03:53 03enne.walker * r7a21e1348a54 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/unique/snorg.png: [1808] Add new Snorg tile. 10:06:20 Mu_: Limits relaxed for your Sprint convenience 10:06:45 dpeg will shortly be howling at your door for the map again :) 10:09:10 you are a star 10:25:08 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:25 number of items picked up not updated when using '.' (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1809) by galehar 10:41:28 Who is Grinder? New Unique? 10:43:50 ??grinder 10:43:50 grinder[1/1]: A unique shadow imp: comes with a pain weapon (a club, usually), pain, paralyse, blink and brain feed. Expect to see him between D:7 and D:12. 10:43:54 apparentlyh 10:44:12 * Cryp71c wants a unique executioner with an executioners axe (of speed?) 10:45:06 Nice 10:46:17 Cryp71c: in pan? 10:47:08 casmith789, wherever, Crypts:5 vault? Crypts isn't exactly regarded as dangerous 10:47:15 except for the Ancient lich 10:47:34 you do realise an executioner can take out most level 27 chars when they do zot 5 10:48:19 well maybe not most, but quite a few 10:48:31 we'd have more orb run deaths if that were true 10:48:46 people tele away 10:48:50 and never return 10:49:29 !lg * killer=executioner s=name 10:49:30 509 games for * (killer=executioner): 14x Tenaya, 11x heteroy, 8x 78291, 8x sorear, 7x KiloByte, 5x Nexos, 5x polystyrus, 5x Shaijin, 5x Johan, 4x DrPraetor, 4x cbus, 4x brennon, 4x Ping, 4x Jaeger, 4x rob, 4x Marvel, 4x Nikinyo, 4x Jovan, 4x Qui, 4x Lemuel, 4x eliotn, 3x doy, 3x syllogism, 3x Errol1, 3x Pacra, 3x Eifeltrampel, 3x mouse, 3x Radicchio, 3x DashNine, 3x Manslay, 3x nubinia, 3x Temoid... 10:49:38 !lg * killer=executioner s=name xl>2 10:49:39 460 games for * (killer=executioner xl>2): 14x Tenaya, 8x 78291, 8x heteroy, 5x polystyrus, 5x Shaijin, 5x Nexos, 4x Qui, 4x DrPraetor, 4x KiloByte, 4x cbus, 4x Ping, 4x Lemuel, 4x Jaeger, 4x rob, 4x sorear, 4x Johan, 4x Nikinyo, 4x Jovan, 4x Marvel, 3x Pacra, 3x doy, 3x mouse, 3x Radicchio, 3x Errol1, 3x DashNine, 3x brennon, 3x Manslay, 3x ronf, 3x eith, 3x daftfad, 3x nubinia, 3x Iaido, 3x zyrk... 10:49:47 xl>2? :p 10:49:54 SpCK :P 10:49:54 executioner is a ridiculously common death for the fact you hardly ever fight them 10:50:21 !lg * killer=executioner s=name xl>20 10:50:21 131 games for * (killer=executioner xl>20): 3x mouse, 3x Nexos, 3x 78291, 3x Johan, 2x CatEater, 2x Ping, 2x AdeonTwo, 2x Jaeger, 2x clouded, 2x tehpwn, 2x DashNine, 2x heteroy, 2x EatEverythingOfYou, 2x syban, 2x Shovelmint, 2x Jovan, 2x Tossi, 2x polystyrus, 2x Onia, 1x WYA, 1x Chapayev, 1x Tally, 1x Guts, 1x dpeque, 1x mlnx, 1x Ponce, 1x Marvel, 1x Fragga, 1x eith, 1x Stathol, 1x zael, 1x Cyber... 10:50:49 a unique (even normal powered) executioner would kill lots of characters, I reckon 10:51:10 I doubt it: they're easy to kill 10:51:12 especially if it appeared in places like crypt:5 10:51:17 -!- xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]] 10:51:28 they're easy to kill? 10:51:32 low hp 10:51:45 they do have high ev though 10:51:58 @?? executioner 10:51:58 Executioner (151) | Speed: 20 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 30, 10, 10 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(144), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 2377 | Sp: pain (d14), haste. 10:52:13 they are going at speed 40 and hitting you with 3 attacks though 10:53:19 !lm * cv=0.7 uniq=gloorx vloq 10:53:19 No milestones for * (cv=0.7 uniq=gloorx vloq). 10:53:25 !lm * src=cdo uniq=gloorx vloq 10:53:31 For all but squishy casters without haste, they're easy to kill. 10:53:32 73. [2010-06-18] 78291 the Thanatomancer (L27 DSVM) killed Gloorx Vloq on turn 120538. (Pan) 10:53:37 @?? gloorx vloq 10:53:37 Gloorx Vloq (15&) | Speed: 20 | HD: 16 | Health: 350 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 45 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(298), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 15000 | Sp: poison arrow (3d23), miasma (3d13), torment symbol, b.draining (3d20), dispel undead (3d25), invisibility. 10:53:55 For characters with at least 25 EV or 25 AC, they're pretty negligible. 10:54:10 especially with a decent weapon. 36-96 hp is hardly anything. 10:54:44 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:46 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:08 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:00 !lg * place=pan s=ikiller 11:02:03 227 games for * (place=pan): 29x an Executioner, 26x Cerebov, 23x a hellion, 22x an Ice Fiend, 15x a Balrug, 14x , 12x a Fiend, 9x a smoke demon, 6x a Shadow Fiend, 4x Gloorx Vloq, 3x a Blue Death, 2x Mnoleg, 2x a Pit Fiend, 1x a Green Death, 1x Azaihuj, 1x Ghitse, 1x a beast, 1x Xedoivvy, 1x Urafice, 1x Twoin, 1x Oliatoat, 1x a skeletal warrior, 1x Geid, 1x Ethriebarr, 1x Plitielu, 1x Ploucs, 1x ... 11:08:09 !lg * place=crypt s=ikiller 11:08:36 340 games for * (place=crypt): 50x an ancient lich, 26x , 26x a vampire knight, 22x a skeletal warrior, 18x a lich, 16x an Executioner, 13x an Ice Fiend, 13x a Balrug, 12x Boris, 12x Frederick, 8x Margery, 7x a Shadow Fiend, 6x Norris, 5x Mara, 4x Xtahua, 4x a program bug, 4x a titan zombie, 4x Khufu, 4x a skeletal dragon, 4x a Fiend, 4x a Blue Death, 4x a titan skeleton, 3x a sphinx, 3x a curse s... 11:08:53 excellent! 26x nothing killed a player :P 11:08:58 Cryp71c: you see, 16 executioner deaths 11:09:08 and they aren't even summoned in crypts so far! 11:09:26 casmith789, they're summoned by ancient lich and regular lich, of which there are 68 direct deaths. 11:09:35 well yes 11:09:56 but pretty much any char that does crypt cannot deal with an executioner 11:10:03 except by teleport/abjuration 11:12:34 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:00 That's because everyone goes into crypt (event crypt:5) before they even clear vaults:7 11:23:03 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:18 Such a unique can go somewhere else..I just thought of crypt as an initial place because its fairly non-threatening. 11:29:45 Inexplicably mapped area (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1810) by Core Xii 11:30:18 So current plan is to release .7 around first or second week or next month? 11:39:31 I think so, definitely before tourny to find preliminary bugs we might patch before it starts. 11:45:28 -!- Iainuki has quit [Quit: Iainuki] 11:45:50 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:24 I haven't played for ~ a week, but is 0.7 nearing completion? Last I checked it didn't seem to be very finished 11:51:50 back 11:52:20 Mu_: is the map ready? 11:52:25 nope 11:52:48 dpeg: You should rephrase that like: "Mu_: is the map ready? awooooOOOOOOoooo!" 11:52:51 by: looks like the mysteriously mapped areas bug is still there 11:54:06 Ahoo ahoo :) 11:54:57 MAX_SHOPS 100 <3 11:57:02 can shadow imps carry weapons? i'm guessing now 11:57:06 I see grinder is supposed to 11:59:22 ??shadow imp 11:59:23 shadow imp[1/1]: A small and shadowy minor demon. Enjoys reanimating your lunch. Also casts pain. 12:02:35 regular imps don't start with weapons, but can pick them off the ground; I imagine shadow imps are the same 12:04:42 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 12:12:03 working on shadow imp and grinder tiles 12:12:08 might not be done for a day or two 12:12:27 Poor_Yurik: your output is amazing :) 12:13:28 Thanks, you guys too. I have a lot of work to do on the Spriggan art. 12:16:37 I have the suspicion that failing to use the DS breath attack does _not_ cost a turn anymore. 12:16:45 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:07 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:21:31 Cryp71c: I've never seen the antenna traces before. They're cool! 12:24:11 Due, how do you envision Grinder to look? 12:26:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:01 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:24 -!- Iainuki has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:14 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:26 dpeg, wait, which traces? the ones where a monster moves and leaves behind a trail of red '.' 12:32:20 yes, those 12:32:22 they rock :) 12:32:34 players will love that mutation 12:33:21 oh, yeah definitely. I rather like mutations that have secondary effects and not direct benefits to combat or something else. 12:36:19 looking cool is always good, too :) 12:37:03 Warmaster Okawaru is suspiciously absent from the dungeon so far. All those Valhalla groupies, I suspect. 12:45:17 is there a way to give a monster an unrand in a vault 12:45:39 if you try to do it like placing the item it crashes 12:46:42 I'm pretty sure some wizlabs have monsters with unrands 12:48:24 oh ye one of them is mine :3 12:48:36 but i'm using the same method atm and it's crashing 12:48:46 Mu_, that's how Dis always have the staff of DIs 12:48:56 which unrandart is it 12:49:20 skullcrusher 12:49:59 Mu_: pastebin the line and I'll try 12:50:02 if i stick ; giant club unrand:Skullcrusher onto a monster crawl crashes 12:50:35 Does it work in wizmode with &M? 12:50:40 let me try 12:51:01 crasher 12:51:02 crashes 12:51:12 Interesting 12:51:18 crashes yep 12:51:41 it says 12:51:42 This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. 12:51:42 Please contact the application's support team for more information. 12:51:47 not sure if that's helpful ;p 12:52:00 Not really :P 12:52:24 try another unrand 12:52:29 guess that's the long way of saying "crawl just crashed" ;p 12:52:36 maybe its just an issue with Skullcrusher 12:52:45 crashes with Elemental Staff as wlel 12:53:05 my cloud mage is wearing the robe of clouds but that's an armour 12:53:10 maybe it's weapons 12:53:19 Ok, I have a repro on the Skullcrusher crash 12:53:32 doesn't crash with wucad mu :P 12:53:44 oh weird :3 12:55:10 this DS has berserkitis and now wields an axe of distortion --- yay :) 12:57:12 -!- Vandal| has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:18 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:28 Muwahahahahah! 12:57:33 nightstalker and antennae 12:57:37 now just spines and I'll be <3 12:59:58 wucad mu does affect monsters wielding it <3 13:00:05 though pretty infrequently 13:04:10 ...and I died. 13:04:12 -_- 13:05:02 http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ still links to http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ 13:05:03 ortoslon: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:05:07 !messages 13:05:07 (1/1) Enne said (1d 2h 38m 19s ago): Not for long--see the yuriktiles branch. If I don't get that in by 0.7, I'll revert goblins and kobolds in the 0.7 branch. 13:09:22 I like Xom. 13:10:50 Xom ignores your expression of affection. 13:11:07 03greensnark * rd526fa568d65 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Fix crash in get_unrandart_num (Mu). 13:11:24 ty greensnark :) 13:11:34 Mu_: crash happens only if you use uppercase for s in Skullcrusher 13:11:46 oh! 13:12:02 Or any uppercase in the unrand name 13:12:15 oki 13:12:17 bad Mu! :) 13:12:51 It's fixed now in any case, but if you don't want to recompile... :P 13:13:14 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 13:13:31 i always capitalise uniques and such :s 13:13:55 Between Pikel and Grinder, being a necromancer has suddenly gotten a LOT more viable 13:14:15 Weapons of pain of a decent base used to be super-rare game changing things 13:14:53 sorear: do you think that development is okay? 13:15:19 Dead plants shown in red on minimap (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1811) by Nobody 13:18:01 sorear: not to mention kiku 13:19:14 dpeg: I think so. 13:32:07 !seen felirx 13:32:07 I last saw felirx at Tue Jun 22 14:03:43 2010 UTC (4h 28m 24s ago) saying dont have time on ##crawl-dev. 13:32:12 felirx: around? 13:44:45 Is the tutorial officially finished for now? 13:44:49 I know that felirx did a lot. 13:49:43 Does autoexplore now stop on the blue tiles? 13:49:54 (Also, we totally need a better blue tile for the tiles tutorial.) 13:51:23 A blue welcome mat saying "Step on me"? :) 13:51:32 I didn't do that much 13:51:51 the team did most of the first revision 13:52:19 greensnark: "Please clean your shoes. We like to have a tidy dungeon." 13:52:27 and due or by then expanded the messages to lua etc 13:53:00 but it should be done for .7 assuming all the message tiles travelstop you 13:53:09 ok, mail sent 13:53:22 and we get a tile for the magical blue square 13:56:06 it would be nice if you don't get the "You are feeling hungry." message while learning diagonal movements 13:56:34 it would need a special hax of some kind 13:57:18 currently the guy just starts the game hungry enough to be quaranteed some sort of hunger status by rat room 13:57:22 normally you don't get hungry that fast 13:58:43 yep 13:59:02 it starts at iirc 2000 nutrition hungrier than normal 13:59:13 is the axe you get in that room supposed to ever be glowing 13:59:15 the value itself is msot likely not perfect 14:00:02 I just chose it quite arbitarily 14:00:05 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:46 only thing guaranteed on the axe is thath it is not cursed and has no ego 14:02:09 no distortion for the n00bs :( 14:02:20 yeah 14:02:38 I got a mace sf distortion in one test run 14:02:45 had to fix it :( 14:03:06 oh hey the last training dummy has a whip of reaching 14:03:38 on purpose 14:03:55 it is a blinking reaching dummy of doom 14:07:07 There is a CDO character named "MonstrousScumming". What to think of this? 14:08:12 make monstrous a selectable option if you pick demonspawn? :P 14:08:15 That's 78291 14:08:20 Doing research 14:08:24 awesome 14:08:29 I like it when he does research. 14:08:44 Also any attempts to make mutations selectable will result in me visiting the perpetrator with shotgun 14:09:30 heyw nothing wrong with winning the mutation roll every game! 14:17:30 greensnark: you mean DS in general or monstrous in particular? 14:17:52 DS in general 14:18:09 Players taking DS should bloody well accept what they get :P 14:18:27 greensnark: most humans have a hard time accepting that tenet. 14:18:52 Well, I have no respect for startscummers 14:19:03 But if they want to, let them knock themselves out 14:19:55 if I was playing a casting DS (nuker), I would probably quit it on monstro 14:20:15 I wouldn't 14:20:33 But then, lots of players used to quit old-style DS for horns, and I labeled them giant wankers :P 14:20:43 don't ever quit an opportunity to leave behind a painful ghost 14:20:44 I think syllogism- used to quit too :P 14:20:55 if you get the text early enough, you can turn yourself to a crusader or a reaver type 14:21:07 probably at least 14:21:18 Does being monstrous actively prevent you from using spells? :P 14:21:26 If it doesn't, you shouldn't fracking care 14:21:27 no 14:21:30 it doesn't 14:21:42 no, it's the gear slot loss 14:21:47 greensnark: you should try to get up Transmigrations, perhaps :) 14:22:03 * greensnark is no respecter of gear slot complaints iether. 14:22:04 I wanted to make monstrous large, but that would effectively end EV-stacking as them 14:22:26 *large as in race size 14:23:13 The 0.5 DS horns quitters used to whine about not getting helmets :P 14:23:13 syllogism-: did you run into the mapping thing? what character, god? 14:23:58 by: I think I had a 3x3 block pre-mapped in the middle of nowhere. DSFi. 14:25:07 by: Looks like Core Xii: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1810 14:27:00 ah, ok, thanks 14:28:06 dpeg: no mapping mutation I assume? 14:28:55 Someone has also filed a bug for the long delay after geting passive mapping :) 14:31:03 by: nope 14:33:01 greensnark: I sort of agree with considering that a bug 14:33:14 It is 14:33:32 Or at least a terrible misfeature 14:34:15 I think there are similar delays for some piety breakpoints too 14:34:40 yes, it's terrible 14:37:14 but fixing it would mean cleaning up the redundant mess that is the attitude change code -- I got stuck there once or twice before 14:38:21 -!- Niccus has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:40:58 the only case where the return value is used for anything is changing gods (taking on Trog, good gods, dumping good gods, dumping Yred, dumping Beogh) 14:41:12 and only so it can say "Your evil allies abandon you" 14:42:43 I never understood why it has to be done all at once, and not every time you (re)visit a level. 14:42:54 exactly 14:43:50 if you dump Yred and then take him back later, your undead allies should still abandon you, but that's just a matter of saving up the list of things to do 14:44:00 it's quite straightforward to fix: you just keep a list of deferred actions around and apply those when a level is loaded 14:46:22 by: yes. But someone has some good reason for doing it the current way. 14:46:26 It started with Nemelex, I think. 14:47:05 * by doubts the "good" 14:47:25 ok! 14:47:36 shuffling decks is just a yet another deferred action that can be done on next load -- even if you're in good standing again 14:47:51 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:09 KiloByte: yes, I think so 14:48:23 it was probably just the easiest way to do it 14:48:49 though if apply_all_dungeons or what it's called didn't exist before nemelex shuffling, it's not that clear 14:48:52 the god change message (and I think Beogh penance too) is the only place where it matters, and I don't think the world would fall if we skipped that message too 14:49:25 yes 14:49:48 or we can store the number of evil/good/magic-using/chaotic allies somewhere 14:49:58 KiloByte: yes! 14:50:20 (I thought apply_all_dungeons got added for the Royal Jelly death.) 14:50:25 perhaps even just as a boolean flag -- and we'd go through all dungeons only if the flag is true 14:52:41 there doesn't need to be a message -- how would the character know what far-away followers do, anyway? 14:52:56 or a message that doesn't depend on actual lost followers 14:56:01 So... someone wants to do this? :) 14:56:22 KiloByte sounded like he was volunteering :) 14:57:27 KiloByte: you know you want to! 14:58:02 an implementation detail: there's no point in storing a list for every level 14:58:48 just a list of (turn,action) I'd think 14:59:01 Plus additional parameters needed for the action 14:59:08 an index into a common list would be enough. Typically, you don't visit D:1 again until your way up, so there's no point in optimizing for a rare case. 14:59:10 Like what god the player had at that time 14:59:17 the turn is not needed 15:00:24 One master list of actions, with each level having an index into that sounds fine to me 15:00:42 Sorry to be off topic, but there's a Mantis FR where players complain that there are fewer portal vaults than before. Fair enough, I tell them how to bring back numbers (using greensnark's mapstat tool). A bunch of comments later: no numbers, but everyone goes: "more shops would be cool". :( 15:00:54 The actions could also be dumped in debug dumps for devs to look at 15:01:38 dpeg: So you're just asking me to run mapstat for you? :P 15:01:47 I had to read that twice to understand :P 15:01:51 greensnark: no :) 15:01:59 dpeg: nothing really changed until a few days ago; the inflow of new vaults is pretty slow 15:02:23 It is a bit more work: you have to run mapstat with trunk/0.6 and compare with 0.5, then add up the various vaults (bazaar etc). 15:02:32 :P 15:02:33 until we applied the missing depth to all those mini_feature ones, this will have an effect of drowning out the rest 15:02:45 KiloByte: they are complaining that there are fewer Sewers than before etc., not the lack of variety. 15:03:01 Since when have they been complaining? 15:03:11 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:35 dpeg: more vaults -> a particular vault (like a portal entrance) will be less likely 15:03:55 greensnark: since forever, I guess. 15:04:02 KiloByte: we are using CHANCE now. 15:04:21 So numbers should actually be stable (this is also why I won't bother to run mapstat myself :) 15:04:45 dpeg: Not all portal vaults use chance 15:04:48 Sewer does not 15:05:41 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:00 neither does Ossuary 15:06:14 Only zig seems to use chance 15:06:21 zig and lab 15:06:33 and apparently some minivaults that really shouldn't be using it :D 15:07:05 greensnark: urks 15:07:10 it is all broken 15:08:04 heh, that door one with hellephants :p 15:09:25 03greensnark * r9bfd9473381f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Convert a couple of misplaced CHANCE: lines to WEIGHT:. 15:10:28 greensnark: should I go out and associate CHANCEs to portal vaults? 15:10:40 sounds like a good idea 15:11:14 what about lowering the CHANCE on global dummies as well? 15:11:52 dpeg: If you want them to be more common :) 15:12:25 dpeg: Also, there's some variation in CHANCE lines in zigs, which won't do what is expected 15:12:36 Oh ok, that's chance_shallow_zig, that'll be fine 15:12:38 My mistake 15:12:57 In any case, you don't need to repeat the CHANCE line for each map with a chance_xxx tag 15:13:08 One map having the chance line is enough provided the set of maps each has the chance_xx tag 15:13:54 greensnark: will you remove the superflous lines? 15:14:03 Ok 15:14:34 thank you 15:14:46 after that, I'll spend CHANCEs for the other portals 15:18:54 Hm, actually, the repeated chance lines are significant if the vault is not allow_dup 15:18:59 So nevermind that :) 15:19:16 greensnark: good I left that to you. I'd have been mindlessly deleting lines :) 15:19:17 chance is too painful to use 15:19:23 greensnark: you think so? 15:19:32 Yes, and it confuses players 15:19:47 Er, vault designers, not players 15:19:52 * greensnark needs to sleep soon :P 15:20:09 I thought greensnark is a machine 15:20:24 every time I look here, it's here and busy 15:20:52 bhaak: You look in here about three times a day :P 15:21:17 and you're always here! 15:21:30 Well, irssi running on server is always here :) 15:21:44 and you are busy! 15:21:57 :) 15:23:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:20 greensnark: so there's nothing to do with zigs CHANCEs and I go wild in the other des files? 15:25:35 Yes, go for it 15:25:54 alright 15:25:57 I think I shall need to tweak how CHANCE works soon though 15:26:29 I'd suggest using the same chance level as zigs for the others 15:26:32 greensnark: I think the mechanics are fine (between WEIGHT and CHANCE). 15:26:46 greensnark: non-shallow zigs? 15:26:57 dpeg: The problem is that a CHANCE: 5% doesn't really mean that 5% of levels will have that vault 15:27:29 I'll look again at it sometime later when I'm thinking clearly :) 15:27:32 greensnark: oh. That's what I took it for. Or at least: 5% of levels try to get that vault. 15:27:45 dpeg: That's the general idea, but I don't think it's quite doing that 15:27:45 * dpeg sends more Irish Whisky to Bangalore. 15:27:57 * greensnark off. 15:28:04 greensnark: in any case, we can leave the CHANCE lines in the des files :) 15:34:10 !tell greensnark Doing this now, I agree that it'd be more useful if one CHANCE statement for a group of vaults tagged chance_bazaar (say) is better. (Better than listing the same CHANCE: 5% for every entry vault.) 15:34:11 dpeg: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 15:40:35 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:12 !tell greensnark Is there any reason why your volcano entry (the "snarktest" one) has WEIGHT 0? 15:41:12 dpeg: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 15:43:08 when sneaking up on a monster, going diagonally is strictly better (5 not 8 moves). Unlike moving delay, I don't see potential downsides in having diagonal moves bring a bigger chance of waking things up. 15:44:10 KiloByte: what are you comparing here? Is there a difference in sneaking up on a monster 5 steps diagonally away to a monster five steps orthogonally away? 15:44:34 currently you have to pass one stealth roll per move 15:45:07 so when going diagonally, you need 5 rolls when going from the edge of LOS, and 8 orthogonally 15:45:21 yes 15:45:42 are you comparing circular with square LOS ultimately? 15:47:24 these calculations are for circular LOS 15:47:47 dpeg, yes, he is. 15:47:52 the problem comes from the inconsistency between sight range and stealth checks. 15:47:57 not sneaking, per se, but its exploits using circular los 15:48:45 Both euclidean and square metrics get this correctly, but our mix does not. 15:48:46 KiloByte, that won't ever be fixed, unless you make changes to sight again. Stealth checks are only done on the player turn. 15:48:51 KiloByte: if so, wouldn't using a single metric for everything solve it? 15:48:51 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 15:49:04 Cryp71c's reply seems to indicate No. 15:49:57 Cryp71c: uhm, but why would that matter? 15:50:38 8 easier checks can have the same total chance as 5 harder ones 15:50:57 and this is an easy fix to me 15:50:57 KiloByte, stealth checks are only done on the player's turn, so even if you..say...adjust diagonal movement to be appropriately slow as to account for the difference in actual distance moves vs how distance is represented with a circular LOS, it would still be only 1 turn, and thus..1 stealth check. 15:51:11 So you're refering to a scalar stealth system based on the direction you're moving? 15:51:34 one check, yes, but its difficulty can vary 15:54:52 that seems like asking for trouble somewhere down the line, imo...whether that trouble be in the stealth system, or with other systems which make similar checks but do not make special accomodations for circular LOS...don't get me wrong, universally equal checks and balance are important, but its long term feasibility vs "what would be nice" 15:55:23 and by "trouble" I dont mean "bugs" or "difficulties in maintainability" but rather, discrepencies between the operating balance between aspects of crawl. 15:55:54 (eg stealth accomodates for euclidean metrics, but Speed when firing ranged weapons / wands do not 15:55:55 ) 15:56:05 Or something else...idk. 15:56:47 I asked myself if restricting movement (not targeting) to orthogonals would help :) 15:57:15 na that only solves a minor (relatively easily accomodated) aspect of euclidean sight. 15:58:46 dpeg, for the 0.8 line, I keep coming back to potions of mutation should do something special for jiyvaites and demonspawn, being their primary attributes are mutations. 15:58:48 the current state is exploitable in real play 15:59:42 KiloByte, certainly, but not overtly so, I think..especially since diagonal approaches are not always available. This is especially true for sleeping monsters, which cannot be repositioned or moved (lest the stab opportunity be wasted) 16:01:44 sure, it's nowhere as bad as the exploit for 0.6 (shooting farther than LOS) 16:01:52 KiloByte: as far as I understand, there are now _three_ conflicting issues? (1) Targeting, (2) sight, (3) stealth checks? 16:02:14 (4) movement, (5) exploration efficiency 16:02:22 dpeg, (3) == (4) 16:02:27 they're equivocally the same issue. 16:02:33 Well, nevermind. 16:02:35 no they're not. 16:02:37 okay, should we go to square metrics for everything, which of these issues would go away? 16:02:41 and which would stay? 16:03:00 3,4,5 would all be fixed. 16:03:04 IDK about 1 and 2 16:03:19 (3) and (4) would go away, (5) would go through the roof 16:03:49 er, wrong, (4) would be worse than in circular LOS 16:03:56 KiloByte: I think this is your main point. Could you explain it again, please? 16:04:09 KiloByte, how is 4 worse in square LOS? 16:04:11 sure. 16:05:25 the simplest case is an almost infinite empty level. With a LOS radius of 1.0, the area explored per turn is 2.0*forward speed in circular LOS. 16:06:07 in square LOS, it's 2.0*forward speed for orthogonal moves, 2.0*1.41*1.41*speed for diagonals 16:07:22 going for square LOS would require reducing LOS radius to 7 if we don't want to upset balance 16:07:39 currently, player sees 213 squares 16:07:49 with square LOS and radius 8 that would be 289 16:07:56 and 17^2=.... 16:08:00 with radius 7 a more reasonable 225 16:08:23 yes 16:09:45 personally, I don't think stealthy characters preferring diagonals is a problem 16:09:52 To me, the main (old!) problem was that we'd be using steps for ranges and euclidean for sight... creating the diagonal shoot abuse, for example. 16:10:05 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:10 I feel that already know I prefer diagonals a lot. 16:10:13 hey dev 16:10:16 bmh: Hi Brendan! 16:10:29 I'm trying to reassemble the crawl cabal 16:11:17 any new species or biggish things that need making? 16:13:44 If a DS gets a mutation randomly (say, hooves) and gains a level and is supposed to get talons, conflict is raised and the mutation fails. This seems like unnacceptable behavior to em. 16:13:57 bmh: GODS! 16:13:58 -!- badp has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:19 Hello, can somebody look at my screen right now? I'm on CDO 16:14:29 dpeg: gods would be so much easier if crawl was object oriented... 16:14:31 Cryp71c: is this a bug, or a design mistake? 16:14:33 badp: is your name badp? 16:14:38 'bp' 16:14:41 ingame 16:14:52 What should I be looking at? 16:14:54 dpeg, its been around for - as near as I can tell - a while..since before I started on DS 16:15:11 well, let's ignore it's unlikely that only 31 people ever did any better than xl11 16:15:14 badp, k, I'm seeing your death / high score screen 16:15:22 oh, that. I've seen that before 16:15:30 but why is this page being displayed instead of the one where my score would be? 16:16:10 (page of high scores) 16:17:33 ./makeitem.h:31:6: error: ISO C++ forbids forward references to 'enum' types <- clang++ with our trunk 16:17:40 Is that really legal C++? 16:17:51 bmh: you can research a bit both on the species and god wiki pages (the latter has a separation into "good" and "not so good"): https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:start https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:start 16:18:13 although there are a few gods from the second page I wanted to promote to the first 16:18:30 yeah, I was poking around at those pages while building a database at work 16:19:02 bmh: tell us what you think -- a quick reply in the wiki helps a lot. 16:19:23 dpeg: I'll need to find my recover password first... 16:19:26 er 16:19:28 recover my 16:19:55 Zao: strange, at least plain C and C++03 don't even allow enums based on a type other than int 16:20:35 there we go 16:20:45 Zao: C++0x does, but if you try to use such enums, current clang++ crashes (SVN from a few days ago) 16:23:43 it seems to try for C++0x -- changing makeitem.c:31 to "enum monster_type : int;" makes clang happy 16:24:01 so it's a matter of it being afraid the storage size will change 16:24:32 eh no, I misread things 16:24:41 Added in commit 3e4f4ef9e85c it seems. 16:25:14 dpeg: There are some *bad* ideas in there... 16:26:04 bmh: I know! 16:26:29 Saying that in the wiki makes it easier to remove those at some point :) 16:26:39 for example: Infected. 16:27:23 03dpeg * r40e095b003e5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ (8 files): Fix expected values for portal vaults. 16:27:24 I have been proposing gods because it's much harder to come up with good species design, imo. 16:27:34 now I can close this stupid FR 16:27:37 I am really fond of the jelly. 16:27:59 bmh: kittehs! 16:28:17 dlk and I were discussing an ugly thing-like species 16:28:21 glow mechanics 16:29:17 KiloByte: Pulling in enum.h instead seems to compile thus far. 16:29:29 -!- Eronarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:32 KiloByte: There seems to be _lots_ of places where things are forward declared as class where they are structs and vice versa. 16:29:53 forward declaring a class and a struct are exactly the same 16:29:58 Unrelated, but noises up the build log a lot. 16:30:30 sorear: At least one compiler warns about it :) 16:31:07 let's pick ONE compiler to obey the warnings of 16:31:12 all other compilers can -w 16:31:13 bmh: A very weird god (like Jiyva) is much easier to set up and stick with than a very weird species, in my opinion. 16:31:47 It always makes me a little sad that I can't be a chaos knight of jiyva 16:31:48 But if you find a species you can stand behind, go for it. :) Otherwise, I would suggest some gods that have good enough proposals. 16:32:01 bmh: we need fewer starting gods, not more :) 16:32:44 umph, the species page hurts too much. I'll stick to the gods 16:33:33 sorear: In this case, I can't see why being more correct would cause any side effects apart from being more correct. 16:34:37 Because it's not actually being more correct, and it takes up time we could spend being more correct 16:35:20 sorear: What if I man up and produce a patch in true OSS spirit? 16:35:39 03Cryp71c * r9d91ee96378c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (religion.cc religion.h xom.cc): Change get_tension to work on LOS only 16:35:41 03Cryp71c * rfdc289afd488 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Fix typo in get_tension rewrite 16:35:42 03Cryp71c * rfebde3547b6a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h mutation.cc): Adjust demonic guardian 16:36:09 dpeg, there, those are the changes we discussed earlier. Regarding my laste statement (hooves / talons conflict, etc. etc.), what do you think? 16:36:22 Zao: if it doesn't break gcc, that would be great! 16:36:31 Cryp71c: couldn't the DS mutation just adapt? 16:36:45 that could be exploited.... but it's not easy to see how 16:36:50 Zao: If you test it on gcc, Xcode, and MSVC 6, and it works, great 16:37:00 bmh: send me a list of anything that strikes your interest, ok? 16:37:07 sure. 16:37:20 I still need to dream up a way to "fix" Jiyva stat shuffling 16:37:22 sorear: The former two, sure. 16:37:29 dpeg, mutations are determined when the character starts, changing them on the fly isn't something we have any code to accomodate for. 16:37:30 who on earth uses msvc 6? 16:37:42 sorear: Not that the makefile works out of the box on my OS X anyway. 16:38:23 clang++ has its problems, like spamming spurious warnings where it claims that an expression does nothing even though it has obvious side effects 16:38:26 (yes, I know that the XCode project should be used, but I only have ssh access) 16:38:27 the easiest approach would probably be to setup a strict way of organizing mutations into families within which mutations of the same family always conflict...then, when a ds gets a conflicting mutation, try to remove all of the other mutations in the family until the conflict is resolved. 16:38:43 KiloByte: Ah yes, the sneaky dir increment. 16:38:59 some of the Xom ideas are pretty nifty: Scrolls of Random Uselessness cause Xom to act, for example 16:39:19 bmh: I highlighted some of the ideas I really like :) 16:39:47 clang++ is inconsistent: if it dislikes (a==b) || (a=c), why would it accept a++ ? 16:40:00 Cryp71c: the other simple solution is: "Your hooves recede. You grow talons." 16:40:18 dpeg, (that's what I was just explaining) 16:40:28 except I was hilighting the functionality of the code. 16:40:34 not the end result :P 16:40:38 ah :) 16:44:27 wow. I expected Achievement System to have been added on April 1 16:47:44 bmh: did I add our ideas for achievements? 16:48:05 I believe it could be done well... but when pressed to choose, player/random gods would tickly my fancy much more. 16:49:37 jpeg did 16:50:11 ah, great 16:54:03 Tsu Muna, god of eating disorders? 16:56:53 bmh: mail :) 16:57:01 sleeping 16:57:06 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 17:01:26 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:12 -!- badp has quit [Quit: Night] 17:36:49 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:39:27 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:31 -!- Enne_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:49 -!- Enne has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:49 -!- Enne_ is now known as Enne 17:53:40 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:24 morning all 18:18:28 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:06 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 18:25:13 03kilobyte * ra28cd0b083b5 10/crawl-ref/source/spells1.cc: Disallow extending Regen while in lich form [1565] 18:25:20 03kilobyte * r07711af4a5c6 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Fix docs: only "jewellery" is accepted, not "jewelry". [1761] 18:25:20 03kilobyte * r1d099d6524d8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: TGW's bribe altar. 18:25:21 03kilobyte * r9c8c2b421a17 10/crawl-ref/source/ (artefact.cc makeitem.cc makeitem.h mapdef.cc spells2.cc): Allow varying strictness of brand checks. 18:25:25 03kilobyte * r91e435305de9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc player.cc player.h): Keep track of the distance travelled this turn (0, 1 or sqrt(2)). 18:25:27 03kilobyte * rd5b208b7eb89 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Cap the effective move time at 10 aut for hunger/regen purposes. 18:25:28 03kilobyte * r442a3e3d79aa 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc player.cc): Unrevert "Make per turn hunger proportional to time_taken"" 18:25:31 03kilobyte * r3d6bc710ca98 10/crawl-ref/source/ (29 files in 10 dirs): Whitespace fixes. 18:25:42 03kilobyte * r9b058762b2f9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (38 files in 2 dirs): Decouple stealth checks from drawing the view window. 18:26:11 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:22 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:30:15 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 18:42:06 All characters should receive ctele level messages (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1812) by OG17 18:47:31 -!- Siber2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:57:35 KiloByte: What are we going to do with 91e435305de9 ? 18:59:34 right now it's used merely as a boolean flag: walking vs another action 19:00:06 since looking at the last command forces you to distinguish between keyboard moves, mouse moves and so on 19:00:44 I planned using this for stealth, but this may need a longer discussion 19:01:35 and since Cryp71c voiced against it, that might be not the best idea for 0.7 19:07:29 Poor_Yurik: A bit wimpy, blue, andimpish. 19:14:28 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:54 a pain-branded... club 19:16:07 can I haz knife of speed? 19:26:08 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:25 -!- morik has left ##crawl-dev 19:48:57 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:07 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:54 03enne.walker 07yuriktiles * rf338ca1e6749 10/crawl-ref/source/tiledgnbuf.cc: Allow shore tiles for lava as well. 20:25:05 03enne.walker 07yuriktiles * ra9cb44ccb859 10/crawl-ref/source/ (rltiles/dc-feat.txt tiledgnbuf.cc): Add deep->shallow water transition tiles. 20:26:15 I was just thinking, since greensnark went through all the trouble of programming the shoals tides, couldn't it also be used elsewhere? Like maybe with lava/acid pool in a vault or a branch end? 20:26:25 Or maybe with dues darkness clouds 20:27:03 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 20:28:48 It could, I guess? 20:32:05 due: what is the description for Grinder? 20:32:16 he doesn't appear to be in the latest tiles build 20:33:15 He's probably not and I just checked out the experimental branch 20:34:17 Is he yours? 20:34:23 Yeah 20:34:25 Um 20:34:30 Can't remember the exact description 20:34:47 An inefficient shadow imp previously employed as a torturer in oe of the lower circles of Hell. 20:34:51 Well, anything that would matter for tiles 20:34:53 :) 20:34:54 He has a tendency to complain and makeinane statements. 20:35:09 Grumpy, plump, dumpy, smaller than anormal shadow imp, blue-tinged... 20:35:38 remind me what grinder does? 20:35:47 @??grinder 20:35:47 Grinder (025) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 11 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 281 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink, brain feed. 20:35:50 oh ok 20:35:52 smaller? the tile for a shadow imp is pretty small lol 20:35:58 Well, yeah. 20:36:26 and did you really make a unique to parody a player? 20:36:52 No, of courseot! 20:36:56 I did nothing of the sort. 20:37:25 I may have been ... inspired. 20:37:41 are you going to implement guard llamas? 20:38:15 No? 20:39:21 what if I show you pictures of guard llamas? 20:39:42 Maybe. 20:51:10 unfortunately, there are none 20:51:20 You fayle. 20:52:43 http://image26.webshots.com/26/6/34/38/317663438alzKUo_fs.jpg this one I guess 20:54:04 If we have llamas we will eed to have camels. 20:54:10 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 20:54:29 is that a bad thing? 20:54:36 Not really? 20:54:40 cool :D 20:55:14 except camels are hideous, so this is suddenly a tougher sell 20:56:37 due: well, my attempt at Grinder crashed and burned! 20:57:37 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:51 TGWi: Who do you think due parodied? 21:00:08 impgrinder? 21:00:11 03enne.walker 07yuriktiles * rb008a52670f7 10/crawl-ref/source/tiledgnbuf.cc: Handle corner wave transition tiles properly. 21:00:18 'cause see, it's an imp named grinder 21:02:10 purge: Noooo. 21:02:22 TGWi: I stole the name, that's aboutit. 21:02:45 I'm sure it's coincidental that he's a torturer :P 21:04:12 Sure. 21:04:35 Enne: Looks excellent. Do we still need trees-in-water for Swamp? 21:04:55 Are the trees supposed to be in the water? 21:05:09 I'm not sure. 21:05:12 I thought so? 21:05:15 They look a bit strange otherwise. 21:05:46 I think they're replaced with water when burnt down... 21:06:06 Oh, I guess they are. 21:06:15 * due checks. 21:06:40 (Oh wow, these new water tiles make the swamp look so much better.) 21:06:53 (Agree. Swamp ground looks uglynow :/) 21:12:24 Yup, was trying again from scratch sorry Due :( 21:12:32 I give up for now 21:13:01 Hey Enne: did you ever see my goblin tile I have on tracker? 21:14:27 purge: <3 That is okay 21:14:29 * due goes to work 21:21:29 purge: Oh, I didn't see that. Hmm. I think I prefer the goblin tile I already committed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1657). 21:21:34 ...but maybe we can find some place to use that? 21:31:21 yeah its ok, i submitted it 4 months ago and it got buried 21:43:07 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:02 Oh, neat. Subtle wall shadows make a big difference. 22:08:07 Before: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=1923 22:08:09 After: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=1924 22:08:33 Oh wow, they do. 22:09:04 Arguably they could be more subtle, but I like the way that looks. 22:09:27 I reallylike thenew look. 22:11:21 due, you really need a new space bar. ;) 22:14:37 Hm. 22:14:43 I think I've maybe fixed it! :D 22:14:49 Or not :( 22:14:57 I'm doomed :( 22:27:27 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:07 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 22:32:36 03enne.walker 07yuriktiles * r886a31971136 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Add wall shadow tiles and code. 22:32:37 03enne.walker 07yuriktiles * r21c32cdff169 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tiledgnbuf.cc tiledgnbuf.h tilereg-dgn.cc): Rename tile wave functions to overlay functions. 23:09:12 -!- Niccus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:10:39 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:12:59 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:34 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:40 TSO accepts the kills of certain monsters twice. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1813) by ogaz 23:41:02 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: zzz] 23:41:13 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev