00:12:40 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:00 -!- henryci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:05 Any mac developers on? 00:23:20 don't ask to ask 00:23:42 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:05 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:23 ? 00:24:39 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:10 sorear: I'm just asking b/c I can't get the project to build so I'm doing everything in a VM and am wondering what other people do. 00:25:19 yes 00:25:25 ask your /question/ 00:25:39 I can't tell if any Mac people ar eon 00:26:43 I'm just curious if they are building via the makefile or the xCode project *hopes not the xCode project* and if so if they installed an older version of the SDK or modified the makefile to point to the 10.6 sdk. 00:27:55 there is something there that says makefiles are not supported on a mac 00:28:36 but there are conditions for mac in the makefile. 00:29:05 I probably confused that with a tiles build 00:29:30 console did build fine for me. 00:30:38 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:51 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:41 on mac? 00:31:45 yes 00:31:49 snow leapord? 00:31:53 10.5 00:31:57 ahh. 00:32:28 Do you know if it's possible to get the 10.5 SDK from apple? 00:32:46 I couldn't build the tiles, but they seem to reference 10.6 SDk which I don't have 00:33:20 no idea about that 02:03:39 -!- Niccus| has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:13 -!- Niccus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:12 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:16 !tell Luca__ Yes, improving show_type sounds like a good way to go. 02:27:16 by: OK, I'll let Luca__ know. 02:28:24 henryci: I build on mac (10.5) with the makefile; xcode has never worked for me 02:28:51 same question I asked Xale. Do ou know if the 10.5 sdk is downloadable somewhere? 02:29:39 -!- CIA-39 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:30:34 does developer.apple.com not have it? 02:30:45 -!- CIA-39 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:14 do I get it by downloading an older version of xcode? 02:32:29 I would assume so 02:33:12 does crawl not compile with the current xcode version? 02:33:15 so you use dolinks.sh and then just make in the source directory and all is well? 02:33:24 forget about dolinks.sh 02:33:30 for me it doesn't compile w/ anything on a vanilla 10.6 box 02:33:32 cd source; make 02:33:49 how about an error message? 02:33:56 blows up not finding assert.h 02:33:59 math.h 02:33:59 etc. 02:34:28 however I do have the 10.6 SDK and it actually checks in the makefile: 02:34:34 ifeq ($(ARCH),x86_64) 02:34:35 SDK_VER := 10.6 02:34:35 endif 02:35:47 and before diving into it I was curious if I was supposed to spend my time debugging the xcode project or the makefile. 02:36:19 I can only help with the makefile 02:36:45 make V=1 lists commands like "g++-4.0 -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -mmacosx-version-min=10.4 ..." here 02:37:45 /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/usr/include has the standard include files -- does this look similar for yout? 02:38:05 this is the problem 02:38:16 gcc-4.0 -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -mmacosx-version-min=10.4 -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -Wall -o lapi.o -c lapi.c 02:38:19 I have no /10.4 02:38:24 and no idea why it's looking in there. 02:38:55 ifeq ($(ARCH),i386) 02:38:55 SDK_VER := 10.4 02:38:55 endif 02:38:59 I wonder if that's somehow returning true 02:39:04 even though mine is x86_64 ? 02:39:23 try "make SDK_VER=10.6"? 02:39:56 also try looking at the output of "arch" 02:40:48 i386,x86_64 02:40:50 that's the problem. 02:41:18 everything is happily building when I force it to 10.6 02:41:28 I'm thinking using arch 02:41:32 to determine SDK version isn't the best way to do it. 02:42:02 yes, maybe best to file a mantis issue so neunon will have a look at it 02:42:29 well I'd like to submit it with a fix. Just not sure what that is right now. 02:43:02 I don't either, so I'd suggest to just file it 02:43:25 but you can now build, right? 02:43:44 yup 02:43:57 so now I'm unblocked and can start work, which is good. That was really helpful. 02:44:36 -!- CIA-39 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:52:34 -!- CIA-44 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:27 Thanks for the help guys. :) 02:53:27 -!- henryci has quit [Quit: henryci] 02:55:33 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:13 Makefile uses 'arch' to determine appropriate SDK version which can be unreliable (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1615) by henryci 03:31:14 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:32 -!- Niccus| has quit [Quit: out] 03:45:27 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:13:12 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:34 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:04 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:00 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:55 -!- xale has quit [Quit: xale] 04:55:29 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:23 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 05:42:19 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:43:03 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 05:44:46 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:03 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:24 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:43 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:36 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:27 what do you think of the idea of creating "knowledge about X" structures, used when examining the thing, and in future as the wire protocol? 06:36:27 Luca__: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:36:32 !messages Luca__ 06:36:32 (1/1) by said (4h 9m 16s ago): Yes, improving show_type sounds like a good way to go. 06:36:48 in particular, a (heavily) modified monster_info for monsters 06:36:59 and an "erased" item_def for items 06:43:55 Luca__: yes, that would be great 06:52:48 the same structures could be exposed to the client lua bindings 06:54:26 yes, that's already done for monster_info 06:54:37 yeah 06:54:43 I think there is a dlua binding for item_def that could be used for clua as well 06:54:53 (with an erased version of item_def) 06:55:07 only problem, I'm not sure how to test that I did not break anything 06:55:10 I think it can be accessed from clua now 06:55:36 and there's some kind of safety through the lua bindings 06:55:53 right 06:56:23 but it would be better to expose a clean copy to lua I think 06:56:42 re testing, what kind of things are you worried about? 06:56:53 the lua bindings? 06:57:23 no, the game itself 06:57:44 basically it involves rewriting several things using monsters* to monster_info* 06:58:11 which is not totally straightforward, and risks either losing or adding information accidentally 06:59:36 adding information would mean adding to much to monster_info, right? 06:59:44 s/to /too / 06:59:56 yes 07:00:06 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00:21 so if monster_info looks right, that's unlikely; I'd be happy to look over such changes 07:00:36 and if information is lost, players will complain 07:01:12 things like show alternate weapon only if you are not misled and monster is either friendly or wields two weapons, but is not mara/rakshasa 07:01:37 (which btw I'm not yet totally sure is the right thing) 07:01:38 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:13 also some things regarding mislead and illusions might be wrong even now 07:05:19 wouldn't worry too much about mislead and illusions 07:05:26 got to go now, later 07:05:27 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:17:07 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:39 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:57 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:25 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:50:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:06 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:51 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:29 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:01:29 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:33 03dolorous * r851349c38e2f 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Make Shatter properly take petrifying/petrified monsters into account. 09:15:17 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:57 -!- by_ is now known as by 09:39:06 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:30 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:18 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:22 argh, what does "item.sub_type < 50" mean? 10:08:23 Oh wow, that's really gross. 10:08:33 In context, it looks even worse. 10:10:05 ah, it's an array dimension, id_arr 10:15:09 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 10:22:43 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:10 03by * r3995117a4f16 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc itemname.h): Remove magic number 50, subtype identification array size. 11:21:24 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:49 magic numbers <3 11:38:36 -!- bfein_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:06 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:39:09 -!- bfein_ is now known as Morik 11:39:33 -!- morik_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:05 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:54 Put a bunch of work into the Spriggan tiles last night 12:49:37 so far, so good 12:57:32 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:53 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:52 Poor_Yurik: sounds cool! 13:16:37 !seen Crp71c 13:16:37 Sorry dpeg, I haven't seen Crp71c. 13:16:41 !seen Cryp71c 13:16:41 I last saw Cryp71c at Mon May 24 22:05:47 2010 UTC (20h 10m 54s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 13:17:22 !tell Cryp71c If your DG kills monsters, Yredelemnul will not accept that. (Not sure about other gods.) We never discussed this, but I think it's an oversight? (Yredelemnul does accept kills by allies.) 13:17:22 dpeg: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 13:34:28 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:47 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:37 03by * rbcb8288e70db 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Remove type_ids lookup bounds checks. 13:49:00 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:27 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:02:22 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:09 Rar 14:03:09 Cryp71c: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:03:11 !messages 14:03:12 (1/2) dpeg said (20h 54m 26s ago): Sorry, work called again. I have no idea about the internals of tension. A private mail to Johanna might help. Your numbers look okay. Does the DG disappear at low tension again? 14:03:20 !messages 14:03:20 (1/1) dpeg said (45m 58s ago): If your DG kills monsters, Yredelemnul will not accept that. (Not sure about other gods.) We never discussed this, but I think it's an oversight? (Yredelemnul does accept kills by allies.) 14:04:06 dpeg, only Mahkleb accepts kills by demonic allies. 14:05:01 vehumet? 14:06:11 casmith789, I havn't tested it myself, I can't be certain (compiling presently), but when I implemented DS some weeks ago, I was told Mahkleb was the only god which accepted kills by demonic allies. 14:06:17 ah 14:06:24 I suppose vehumet would if they were summons 14:07:32 Cryp71c: ah, okay. That simply means that DG + Yrdy is not a good combo. 14:07:43 So no change needed. 14:07:55 dpeg, Yred + PBD is epic, I would imagine :P 14:08:59 kiku, surely? 14:09:07 Er, kiku... 14:09:08 gah! 14:09:24 ??Yredelemnul 14:09:24 yredelemnul[1/3]: God of the death knights and Necromancy counterpart to Makhleb. Grants the following invocations: reanimate monsters as zombies (single and multi-target versions), recall friendly undead, area of effect vampiric draining, and enslave soul (see next entry). Yred will reflect damage you take while praying at the cost of piety. Also gifts undead pets. 14:18:58 Cryp71c: yes, this will be interesting. 14:19:10 Yesterday, I watched Lemuel and he loves the new DS :) 14:19:20 He suggested that DS might be forced to go atheist... 14:19:32 ...this is radical, but it would allow us to come up with very strong DS mutations. 14:19:55 He promised me to create a Mantis item for that. 14:20:06 Yeah if that were the case, more mutations or more powerful mutations would be in order. 14:20:07 The question is, why wouldn't an "evil" god accept demonspawn worshippers 14:20:31 felirx, the inability to worship, similar to demi-gods, would be most appropriate to describe the inability to worship. 14:20:48 s/describe the inability to worship/inability to take on a god 14:21:40 dpeg, I had fiddled with the idea of picking categories of mutations (defensive, offensive, support) and allowing players to "choose" their category of mutation (allowing them to more selectively build their DS), but hadn't ever mentioned it since its a bit radical. 14:21:47 felirx: this could be story-lined away easily. 14:21:57 Cryp71c: nah, don't :) 14:22:17 We don't want to hand players a DS mutation construction kit (tm) :) 14:22:38 They're supposed to give and take from the games throws at them. 14:22:38 It would definetely be interesting though 14:22:56 Also, since when can you deliberately choose your genes? 14:23:04 Right now, I would take DS over ~any other race for casters any time 14:23:20 dpeg, well..yeah, that kind of mutation system wouldn't fit with the current story-line of demonspawn. 14:23:31 The real question (wrt gods) is whether absence of god (fewer choices) is worse than stronger/cooler Ds mutations. 14:23:53 Cryp71c: it sounds a bit like players asking to choose their Dr colour. 14:23:58 dpeg, indeed 14:24:07 I've been rejecting such FRs since 1999. 14:24:18 dpeg, I think more (up to 2 or 3) races that are godless would be interesting. 14:24:34 dpeg, and DS fit (the best) into that race niche at the present moment. 14:24:36 Cryp71c: yes, I don't think that Lemuel's idea is absurd. It's just not trivial to decide. 14:24:41 certainly. 14:25:10 In fact, they'd be cooler than DG in the godless niche. (But I really hope I can convince someone to code the abstract worshippers for DG. :) 14:25:35 felirx: currently, DS is quite a bit overpowered, in my opinion. 14:25:41 it is 14:25:45 to an extent 14:25:56 unless you get nightstalker as a fire/ice stormer 14:26:00 then you're f*d ;D 14:26:38 felirx: you know well in advance about that (you get the mutation before the storms) 14:26:47 yeah 14:26:49 dpeg, I find they're overpowered mid game, and that's about it. 14:26:57 early on and late they have harder times than most of the other races. 14:26:58 so that falls under "missing adaption" 14:27:10 Cryp71c: I doubt they have a much harder time. 14:27:20 But I don't think we need huge nerfs either. 14:27:34 but I ment it in the category that you're going ice or fire elementalist type and get nightstalker -> you won't be able to storm -> you'll miss on the best spells 14:27:53 I believe that level gain could be slower... a DS will be interested in getting XL 27. And currently, you can achieve that in a 3-runer without gimmicks. Why? 14:27:58 dpeg, IDK about "much harder" but they're definitely in the middle in the "list of races to win with, ordered from least to most difficult" 14:28:05 felirx: sure, but Nightstalker is awesome, so you adapt. 14:28:10 naturally 14:28:25 DS is very easy to adapt if you have a decent mut set 14:28:38 felirx: plans like "I wanna be a [motherfucking thug]" should be ill-suited for Dr and DS. 14:28:49 especially if the "game breaking" mutations come before some xl20 14:29:05 felirx: um, there shouldn't be no game breaking mutations :O 14:29:16 plan breaking is probably a better word :D 14:29:24 dpeg, oh oh! double negative...that means dpeg thinks there SHOULD be game breaking mutations!!!!!! 14:29:28 11!11!!!1!! 14:29:29 :P 14:29:57 * Cryp71c reverts all his nerfs to the new mutations. 14:30:38 Cryp71c: I have learned that one of the proofs for English's inferiority is how double negation stresses a point. 14:31:09 no, it doesn't 14:31:17 it's only the nightstalker and icemail that can be seen as "plan breaking" to my knowledge 14:31:51 casmith789: sure? I am very confident I learned that. Did double negation used to be used like this? 14:32:07 na, both are fairly balanced, since even with 400+ stlth, all the high end stuff still wakes up. 14:32:09 felirx: well, plan breakers are awesome, if you ask me. 14:32:09 oh right 14:32:17 ohhh, plan breakers. 14:32:17 I was just annoyed at you calling English inferior 14:32:21 thought you meant "game breakers" 14:32:27 English is inferior, its a terrible language. 14:32:32 How it because the norm is beyond me. 14:32:37 *it's 14:32:38 ;) 14:32:41 * casmith789 hides 14:32:42 sorry, I didn't mean to incite a riot 14:33:04 psh, contractions! I'll use "I'll" all I want! 14:33:19 also, I don't like the use of double negatives to stress points, it doesn't make much sense 14:33:26 Cryp71c: well, the reasons are very simple, and historical, not of linguistic nature- 14:33:43 casmith789: I can see that. But is/was it used like this? 14:34:01 the ds mutations could be even more char defining 14:34:04 German had it, but it's gone for a long time (centuries, not decades). 14:34:06 It is, sometimes. 14:34:24 felirx: they're almost there, I'd say? In any case, they're much better at it than the old set. 14:35:04 yes they are 14:35:16 felirx, the problem is that you can't get *too* character defining without carefully walking the line of "plan breaking" and/or "game breaking," at least without changing aptitudes, which I've tried to convince dpeg about once or twice ; ) 14:35:17 the old ones were either boring or overpowered 14:35:49 felirx: boring is worse, imo 14:36:41 I wouldn't say DS are broken with the new mutations, although I haven't played much recently, only at the start of 0.7 14:37:05 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 14:37:09 casmith789, I wouldn't say they're broken either. 14:37:13 dpeg, new DG is committed. 14:37:17 not broken, just a tad on the powerful side 14:37:18 03Cryp71c * r3f6687c46fa4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Rewrite get_tension and Demonic Guardian 14:37:33 felirx, I wouldn't say that either, at least not in a "general" sense. 14:38:35 If you get a very precise set of mutations early on, your particular character can be brokenly strong, but as a general sense of where DS are presently, they're quite tough to reliably get past XL12 and can (pretty easily) accomplish 3-rune runs, but have more difficult than comparable races with 15 urune runs. 14:39:53 why are they difficult endgame, moreso than what races 14:39:55 maybe I just won the mutation game then, since the DSWz I had steamed to 15 runes 14:40:18 Cryp71c: awesome 14:40:25 He did however have major food issues because I never found gourmand 14:40:30 I got to run (actually cycle) to catch the last shop that's still open. 14:40:41 !lg * ktype=winning v>=0.7 race=DS s=urune 14:40:46 13 games for * (ktype=winning v>=0.7 race=DS): 4x 3, 3x 4, 3x 15, 2x 5, 1x 12 14:42:39 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: fooooood] 14:44:19 !lg * winning v>=0.7 race=DS urune>=12 s=job 14:44:19 Bad arg 's=job' - cannot summarise by job 14:44:23 !lg * winning v>=0.7 race=DS urune>=12 s=char 14:44:23 4 games for * (winning v>=0.7 race=DS urune>=12): 1x DSWz, 1x DSDK, 1x DSFE, 1x DSNe 14:44:23 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:44 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:56 !log * winning v>=0.7 char=DSDK 14:44:57 2. turnerjer, XL27 DSDK, T:153656: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/turnerjer/morgue-turnerjer-20100415-011405.txt 14:45:03 !lg * ktype=winning v>=0.7 urune=15 s=crace 14:45:04 13 games for * (ktype=winning v>=0.7 urune=15): 3x Demonspawn, 2x Deep Elf, 2x Spriggan, 2x Sludge Elf, 1x Merfolk, 1x Naga, 1x High Elf, 1x Human 14:45:08 -!- jedahan has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:24 !log * winning v>=0.7 char=DSDK urune >=12 14:45:24 1. 78291, XL27 DSDK, T:146676: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/78291/morgue-78291-20100404-171426.txt 14:46:20 st_, all 4 of those DS wins are casters. 14:46:36 !lg * ktype=winning v>=0.7 urune>=12 race=ds s=skill 14:46:36 4 games for * (ktype=winning v>=0.7 urune>=12 race=ds): 1x Conjurations, 1x Necromancy, 1x Invocations, 1x Maces & Flails 14:46:48 that maces and flails win had 20 necro and 16 spellcasting. 14:46:50 I think by's HuFi is the only non caster win in 0.7 :) 14:46:54 so, kind of hybridy 14:46:57 mine is the invocations guy! 14:47:18 think that reflects on non-caster gameplay in 0.7 ?? :P 14:47:44 how do you define non caster 14:47:54 pure melee or can he have spell support? 14:48:34 if you have spell support your a hybrid 14:48:43 you're 14:49:13 if you're a hybrid, doesn't mean you're a caster yet in the traditional sense 14:51:41 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:54:52 perhaps the ac/ev balance needs more tweaking? (in the +ac -ev direction) 14:56:05 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:20 Luca__: probably; it'd be nice to have some numbers however, on how EV and AC currently perform in terms of damage reduction 14:58:11 doesn't fsim provide that? or maybe player/monster is different enough that it's useless for that? 14:58:55 fsim may provide that, but if it does, nobody has made the results available 14:59:16 it does vs monster ac/ev 14:59:28 but indeed that will miss at least armor/dodging skill 14:59:37 yes, that's what I'd like to have 15:00:00 player with such-and-such skills and body armour and ac and ev 15:00:12 although, even with the numbers, it's not obvious what the "correct" numbers should be 15:00:17 vs stone giant, orb guardian, executioner, slime creature, ... 15:00:46 I can say that executioner versus 50+ ac means 0 damage 15:00:53 orb guardians hurted a bit 15:01:00 very random though 15:01:44 I have some clear relations in mind: a dodging based character should have slightly lower average damage reduction, and a significantly higher variance than heavy armour characters 15:02:23 and for a highly developed heavy armour character, AC should probably do more for damage reduction than the bit of EV they still have 15:02:25 all the draconians also did very little damage at that point 15:02:42 how much AC does an average heavy armor guy have by the time of zot? 15:04:15 !log . char=hufi 15:04:19 2. robx, XL27 HuFi, T:235564: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/robx/morgue-robx-20100523-200057.txt 15:04:23 shouldn't ev-based dr be significantly lower, due to the ability to cast freely? 15:04:34 only 43? 15:05:59 Luca__: I'm not sure, higher variance alone is enough to make it a lot more risky 15:06:16 yes perhaps 15:06:36 high variance might not be very fun though 15:06:36 but I'm not sure -- it'd be good to have such numbers, also for different versions of crawl 15:07:04 (i.e. you get paranoid about single hits killing you) 15:07:48 dodging implies high variance, I think 15:07:59 Fighter having 43 ac does pose weird questions about a demonspawn/naga with +9 AC mutation and ozo's armor 15:09:54 I guess you could have barely-hits 15:12:07 yes, there is also the issue of ozocubu's armor giving you heavy armor like AC for free 15:12:48 (it's +4 -> +13) 15:13:41 ozo's armor does need a heavy investment in Ice though to be good 15:14:01 you still get +5/+6 with ice 3/6 15:15:21 which is 3/4 points short of gda 15:15:49 (unmodified) 15:16:07 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:28 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:22 38 AC 27 EV in plate, a DD by early swamp 15:26:34 EV in armour is brokenly high 15:27:08 add +3 EV if I removed my large shield 15:28:09 what have you been training KiloByte? 15:28:17 armour, dodging or both? 15:28:45 all skills are enabled, I had only Invo disabled for some time in the past 15:28:55 -!- Enne has left ##crawl-dev 15:28:56 ah okay 15:28:59 -!- jedahan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:01 I had 36 EV in storm dragon recently that was with +8 from jewellery though, I had a ring of shoalin too so it could have been 44 15:33:08 I think I had a round 30-40 ac and 20-30ev, 20-30 SH somewhere around ~xl20-25 15:35:10 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:11 Change demonspawn mutations: horns, talons and bone changes... (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1616) by Malakal 15:52:47 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:02:12 Cryp71c: How are you closing issues? 16:03:18 sorear, how do you mean? 16:03:28 Would you consider horns, feet etc having some minor non melee combat oriented bonuses 16:03:34 Every time you close a ticket, I get three separate e-mails 16:03:39 otherwise all the ranged type demonspawns will feel compelled to scum antennas 16:03:54 felirx: yes 16:04:04 felirx: the original spec for hooves included swiftness 16:04:09 sorear, emails about what? The tickets being closed? 16:04:13 yes 16:04:28 should I remove the teleportitis+lab warning if you have stasis/-TELE? Or would that be too nitpicky? 16:06:17 I guess assign generates one mail, can you combine that with anything? 16:06:23 yes 16:06:28 click "Resolve Issue" 16:06:44 then you can set owner, resolution, status in a single transaction 16:07:39 sorear, I'll keep that in mind, force of habit has me work left to right, and the "assign this to" button comes before "change the status to" button, the resolve button has been easily overlooked. 16:07:53 But I'll try and remind myself to use it instead. 16:08:26 felirx, there are also other non combat-oriented mutations planned, loosely speaking (we know we want more non-combat oriented body slot facets, but specifics havn' been ironed out yet) 16:09:03 that's good too 16:09:29 felirx, as for the current mutations having non-combat oriented usefulness, I cannot say...the motto of DS gameplay - if summarized into a single word - would be "flexibility" with regard to mutations. 16:09:50 So I don't foresee making *all* body slot facets have non-combat oriented value. 16:10:40 right now if you get your body facet late and it's useless, you just ignore it and lament the loss of slot 16:10:54 it might prove helpful while training fighting or something nonfactor like that 16:43:55 -!- ogaz has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 16:48:23 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:40 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:24 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:16 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:25 -!- jedahan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:19 -!- jedahan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:53 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:09 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:14 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:45 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:54 morning all 18:27:26 Morning. 18:42:37 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:56 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:04 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:19:02 -!- Niccus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:34 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:51 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:11 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:35 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:46 monsters with minds should understand corners; mindless monsters should not understand cover (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1617) by Lemuel 20:43:48 DS should be obligate atheists (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1618) by Lemuel 20:49:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:10:02 03enne.walker * rf786a607b036 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Abstract dungeon rendering into a separate class. 21:10:09 03enne.walker * r0885fff148bb 10/crawl-ref/git-hooks/crawl-ref-cia: Updating CIA hook for my changed email address. 21:16:38 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:05 Enne, hiya! 21:20:10 Hey, due. :) 21:20:47 -!- xale has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:56 Oh look, a bike-shed painting discussion re: scrolls of enchant X. 21:51:05 due: implement my proposal when nobody's watching 21:51:56 My solution is to just nerf debates from orbit with a machine gun. 21:57:37 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: zzz] 22:10:59 -!- Morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:11:02 -!- morik_ is now known as morik 22:11:25 -!- bfein_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:57 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:20:27 wow 23:20:35 ASSERT(cooky == QUIVER_COOKIE) in 'quiver.cc' at line 463 failed. 23:20:43 crashes right before loading the game selection menu 23:28:08 I get this every startup building debug on master 23:28:14 * ixtli shrug 23:28:30 It doesn't impede my dev, but I wonder if anyone else is experiencing this, or if it's known? 23:33:38 it's not known 23:33:50 since you're able to reproduce it, you are in the best position to fix it 23:33:55 gogogo 23:36:02 D: 23:36:12 sorear: I'm scared to edit game logic xD 23:36:47 interesting. maybe one of my saves is corrupted. 23:37:16 we're not very careful about binary compatibility 23:37:33 if you're on master, you should probably rm -rf saves every update 23:38:53 i see 23:38:59 yeah it goes away when i delete saves 23:39:02 hmm 23:39:15 if you catch someone breaking saves, berate them for me 23:39:24 Roger.