00:36:07 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:32 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:08 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:26 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:09 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:03 TSO and Ely allow for switches from Zin to a chaotic god without wrath (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1577) by MrMisterMonkey 02:29:51 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:54 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:14 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:46 -!- Niccus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:06:59 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:03 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:22:45 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:23:04 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:14 -!- phyphor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:42 -!- jedahan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35:38 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:36:10 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:31 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:48 -!- jedahan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:42 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:43 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:05 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:58 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:45 Crazy Yiuf's quarterstaff of chaos should be identified (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1578) by Core Xii 04:22:55 03kilobyte * re7274e4da8ab 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix reversed logic in slime wall damage to monsters. 04:22:58 03kilobyte * r015afda211d6 10/crawl-ref/source/random.cc: Optimize div_rand_round() by avoiding the costly random2() call when unnecessary. 04:22:59 03kilobyte * r9dd5427862ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Awaken Forest, a spriggan druid spell. 04:26:14 KiloByte: I think the Awaken Forest idea is really really good; I had a separate thought of a monster Earth spell (another disincentive to camp in a corridor). 04:32:57 I thought more about it being an answer to summons making you mostly invulnerable in tight places. 04:49:28 -!- Anym has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 04:57:34 03kilobyte * rbb7599b58978 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Don't make spriggans / sprigan druids run around naked. They'd catch a cold. 04:57:35 03kilobyte * r23cb7fe31237 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Make Sunray just inaccurate, not ridiculously inaccurate. 05:08:22 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:15 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:07 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:40 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:16 KiloByte: That's even better. 05:41:27 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:14 -!- Epyon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:38 03kilobyte * r09a3b0f0e16b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Make eyes of draining heal the amount of mp taken, instead of a fixed value. 06:07:11 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:42 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:01 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:27 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:23:03 -!- Zao has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:24:40 -!- Zao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:39 -!- Epyon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:47 Henzell's db got a reset? 06:25:48 !won 06:25:48 Napkin has not won in 13 games. 06:28:40 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:12 New tile for Eustachio (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1579) by coolio 07:08:19 -!- Epyon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:07 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:12 does viewing off-level maps work with tiles? 07:46:25 guess it does 07:47:07 03by * ra3885967c226 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc spells3.cc view.h viewmap.cc viewmap.h wiz-mon.cc): Make show_map explicitly return whether a target was chosen. 07:47:08 03by * rb09a4c97d62f 10/crawl-ref/source/viewmap.cc: show_map: Move travel cache updates into level excursion. 07:47:11 03by * r921d74bba20c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc spells3.cc viewmap.cc viewmap.h wiz-mon.cc): show_map: extra argument to prevent off-level browsing. 07:47:12 03by * rddd1f210545c 10/crawl-ref/source/viewmap.cc: show_map: Follow stair-cases when browsing levels. 07:47:14 03by * rc3758529d1f1 10/crawl-ref/source/stash.cc: Make stash search show map instead of starting travel. 07:47:55 by_: wow 07:47:55 dpeg_: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:48:42 !messages 07:48:42 (1/3) Cryp71c said (15h 54m 14s ago): there are issues with ds_wings giving swiftness. If it gives swiftness (-2 movement) then all you need is flight to get to spriggan speed (too powerful for a tier 2 mutation) 07:49:03 !messages 07:49:03 (1/2) Cryp71c said (15h 53m 59s ago): alternatively, I had thought of it blocking swiftness and taking the delay to 9 (-1 instead of -2), but then having ds_wings 3 is actually worse than just casting swiftness. 07:49:12 !messages 07:49:12 (1/1) Cryp71c said (15h 52m 36s ago): correction, since ds_wings 2 gives cFly, all you need is levi to have flight, so at ds_wings 3, having +levi gives you Spriggan speed... 07:50:24 !tell Cryp71c So we should remove speed/Swiftness altogether from the DS mutation. What about giving plain Flight instead? So 1: cFly, 2: deformed body, activable flight, 3: permanent flight. 07:50:24 dpeg_: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 07:50:51 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:53:41 dpeg_: now we just need to show the travel path on the map 07:54:24 by_: that'd be awesome, yes. This included the exploration path, right? 07:55:15 I don't understand the explore code well enough to know if showing an exploration path makes sense 07:55:22 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:34 i.e., I'm not sure how many turns are known in advance 07:55:38 by_: simply indicating the direction in which autoexplore wants to walk would suffice 07:56:42 but getting at the travel path is not obvious to me, so I'll leave it at this for now 07:58:13 dpeg_: do you think it's ok to require an extra to travel to a stash? 07:58:22 seemed better to me than adding yet another toggle 08:01:11 Napkin: on saturday there were some !lg problems, too; greensnark was aware of it, though I'm not sure it was fixed 08:01:38 not sure if it's related; back then, !lm worked fine for cdo games, but !lg was stale 08:02:15 well, could be that !won no longer shows wins of alpha versions? 08:02:38 !lg * Napkin ktyp=winning 08:03:01 !lg ktyp=winning s=char 08:03:24 Henzell is sick 08:03:27 Malformed argument: Napkin 08:03:28 No games for Napkin (ktyp=winning) 08:03:57 !lm Napkin type=rune 08:03:57 5. [2010-04-17] Chojin the Warrior (L26 MDBe) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 126317. (Vault:8) 08:04:10 !lm Napkin type=orb 08:04:10 1. [2010-04-17] Chojin the Slayer (L27 MDBe) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 08:04:22 Napkin: Chojin is you? 08:04:22 that char failed miserably 08:04:27 yes 08:04:29 !lm Napkin type=orb -2 08:04:29 Index out of range: -2 08:04:39 Is that super-man 08:04:40 or city-man 08:04:41 ? 08:04:44 so the milestones seem to be missing, too 08:05:02 !lg * src=cdo ktyp=winning 08:05:19 ixtli? 08:05:24 Chojin 08:05:30 262. felirx the Farming Genius of the Arcane (L27 DSWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 21 runes on 2010-05-17, with 5443289 points after 425845 turns and 32:54:37. 08:05:54 Can either be 町人 or 超人 08:06:05 oh? is that name translatable? :D 08:06:10 Indeed! 08:06:14 I think you want the latter. 08:06:17 It means super person. 08:06:19 oh.. can't see utf8 at the moment 08:06:34 it's from an old movie ;) 08:06:39 I'm wrong anyway, I forgot that if it used the other character it would be chonin. 08:06:49 Which are of historical significance, but not as cool :) 08:07:01 hehe :) 08:07:24 thanks - though... that translation is a bit weird :D 08:07:51 Napkin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Übermensch 08:08:02 The japanese version of that article has the kanji. 08:08:15 it was rather "Chojin, the Overfiend" ;) 08:08:31 Übermensch is a cool translation of chojin :) 08:08:34 I see. 08:08:49 erm... well, sounds silly, yes :D 08:09:44 "Napkin" is a good compensation ;) 08:09:56 Hahaha indeed. 08:19:06 by_: yes, I think so (additional Enter) 08:22:57 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:19 by_: if there are objections, an option might be better than a toggle 08:29:33 03by * r02b7ad9510a0 10/crawl-ref/source/stash.cc: Redisplay stash menu when not travelling. 08:34:09 by_: alternatively, one key (say Enter) would travel, while another (say Space) would show the stash map. That's better than toggle or option. 08:39:50 dpeg: I very much disagree with making "guaranteed" items in vaults pre-identified 08:41:02 It doesn't make sense in-game and you could expand that philosophy to dozens of other things 08:42:00 most spellcasters are guaranteed to have specific spells, vaults always have same layouts etc 08:43:34 once you meet him once, you'll know what to expect, just like with any other monster 08:44:56 or any other vault 09:00:06 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:04 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:38 -!- by_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:22:01 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:06 by: around? 09:36:00 it would be nice to known the possible spell sets of a monster when examining it (like it happens in wizard mode) 09:36:58 and especially what is the minimum number of hits that could kill you in the current situation 09:37:28 hmm, how much would it change to make guaranteed vault items fixedarts? 09:37:36 that way you'd have a plausible flavour reason to pre-ID them 09:37:42 well, unrandarts, I suppose 09:40:06 Re: Mantis issue emails. If I bump up the minimum severity I care about in my preferences, do I still get all info on issues assigned to me? Also, is there any way to just get tiles-related issues? 09:40:23 luca: the second goes way too far 09:40:30 and I dislike the first 09:42:15 e.g. right now you need heavy use of spoilers to find out that you should stay at more than distance 4 from an ancient lich because crystal spear can kill you in one hit 09:42:34 you don't because most of the time it will not 09:42:35 (if you are e.g. a deep elf with no fighting skill) 09:43:08 furthermore, the philosophy isn't that there should be no spoiler knowledge, just that you don't require them 09:43:29 and next time you will know 09:43:57 I don't, however, like the mosnter spell range nerfs 09:44:19 though I suppose the player can figure it out once they've played a caster themselves 09:45:20 even a simple "you can die in X hits" on the stats display could be interesting 09:45:27 Luca__: not really 09:45:49 would avoid surprises like titanic slime creatures dealing more than 100 damage unexpectedly 09:45:59 why would we want that 09:46:11 you can find out that anyway with spoilers 09:46:21 saves you the time to look up learndb 09:46:29 spoilers are a necessary evil, the goal isn't to let everyone win on their first time 09:46:43 i.e. present what gretell would say in the interface 09:46:58 and maybe do all the computations for the player 09:47:01 Luca__: I don't really want players to agonise over the monster description screens before every single fight. 09:47:12 You learn to respect titanic slimes very soon. 09:47:14 that's why a "you can die in X hits" could be better 09:47:25 that's really what the player wants to know usually 09:47:34 esp. if X=1 09:48:14 Luca__: I suggested asking to confirm if moving next to something that could one-shot you from your current HP, but it was rejected 09:48:23 "You can die in one hit." is meaningless without specifying the chance: 10%? 20%? 90%? 09:48:35 it would work much like that, except you wouldn't have to look at summaries all the time 09:48:48 dpeg_: I disagree; if something has /any/ chance of oneshotting you, that's valuable information 09:49:14 certainly it is valuable information, but it's the kind of information that should be learned through playing 09:49:18 yes, especially if you are e.g. a caster with controlled blink and thus can easily avoid it 09:49:50 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:40 The point is not to hand-hold the player until victory, the point is to remove the need to look up things. I doubt that players rely on fsim much. 09:51:12 fsim no, but learndb/gretell/wiki yes 09:51:23 well I used fsim to compare weapons 09:51:29 that's also highly non-intuitive 09:51:41 just the players who frequent ##crawl 09:51:51 syllogism: and not even all of them 09:51:54 yes 09:52:25 So the game tells you in which level range a given branch is now: that's good. The game won't tell you how many HP that ogre has, because that's (a) randomised and (b) therefore _less_ spoily. 09:53:03 sure, randomized stuff shouldn't be told to the player 09:53:12 what if the monster is wielding a weapon 09:53:15 but all the range of possibilities for them probably should 09:53:28 assume best weapon possible given player information 09:53:37 hurr 09:53:54 (i.e. simulate for all possible weapons that could be generated on the monster and take the maximum) 09:54:23 Luca__: this is absurd 09:54:37 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:38 what if it picked it up 09:54:51 Morning 09:54:51 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:54:53 right 09:54:54 !messages 09:54:54 (1/1) dpeg_ said (2h 4m 30s ago): So we should remove speed/Swiftness altogether from the DS mutation. What about giving plain Flight instead? So 1: cFly, 2: deformed body, activable flight, 3: permanent flight. 09:55:06 Cryp71c: exercising now, back in two hours 09:55:23 dpeg_, you should've gone 2 hours ago! you'd be returning right now... :( 09:55:29 just do it for all possible brands then if it shows as ego item 09:55:45 (I think speed will be most harmful unless you are vulnerable to something) 09:56:05 do you realize how large that range is 09:56:39 if an orc warrior is wielding any weapon at all, it could potentially one-shot almost any early/midgame player 09:57:04 right 09:57:30 well for monster spells vs caster it is easy 09:57:46 you should never have a 1-hit situation if playing properly 09:58:21 for melee, maybe you need to be more sophisticated and estimate weapon chances and use 95%/99% confidence 09:58:34 it can't be avoided in a manner that is acceptable and feasible 09:58:53 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:20 I think it's quite possible even though non-trivial 09:59:25 now, saying something like you shouldn't be one-shotted in zot 5 as a xl27 character would be more reasonable 09:59:41 but even then you've remember the player could be a naga 09:59:53 and the lich could get two turns 10:00:02 only if you move 10:00:07 which you probably shouldn't do 10:00:12 (use controlled blink) 10:00:15 what, you should be shouting every turn? 10:00:51 but yes, the usefulness of it probably depends a lot 10:01:06 (also as a naga you'll have swiftness+flight so you are still faster) 10:01:14 you may have 10:01:20 (as a caster, at least) 10:02:18 an ancient lich, being speed 12, got a double turn once and one-shotted my 150hp character (the actual damage was around 192) 10:02:40 before I got to act 10:04:41 it does something like 3d48, so it could pretty much "oneshot" any character 10:05:12 this is, of course, so exceedingly rare the knowledge wouldn't really be worth anything 10:05:18 by the time you meet ancient lichs it's not unlikely to have more than 144 hp 10:05:23 it is speed 12 10:05:25 it can move twice 10:05:38 Luca__: you can get ancient liches in crypt:5 10:05:45 hmm right 10:05:58 isn't that something that should be fixed? 10:06:15 i.e. prevent it casting crystal spear two times in a row / nerf it / make it slower 10:06:25 it's really, really rare though 10:07:12 fwiw, I ascended a DEWz and always made sure to not be in iron shot/crystal spear range 10:07:21 I would use poison arrow to kill anything with those spells 10:09:04 !lg * 10:09:05 632909. minced the Chiller (L2 MfIE), shot by a centaur (arrow of flame) on D:2 on 2010-05-18, with 66 points after 454 turns and 0:00:58. 10:09:10 but that requires spoilers to know the monster spell sets, correct distance and that it is a problem at all 10:09:12 !gamesby Napkin 10:09:13 Napkin has played 13 games, between 20090822 and 20100417, won 0, high score 578944, total score 845704, total turns 271359, total time 46:18:42. 10:09:24 !gamesby * cdo 10:10:53 * (cdo) has played 113130 games, between and 20100518, won 262 (0.2%), high score 13318821, total score 1181593323, total turns 383779654, total time 34472:50:50. 10:11:22 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:11:46 by: I'm not aware of Henzell issues with cdo logs. Should I be? 10:12:05 !lg * cdo 10:12:14 113130. morf the Chiller (L1 DEIE), quit the game on D:1 on 2010-05-18, with 21 points after 35 turns and 0:00:26. 10:15:51 I was looking for a cdo log and couldn't find it, but it's much more likely I simply didn't recognize the one I was looking for 10:16:05 Napkin's gamesby does look odd 10:16:09 !nick -rm Napkin 10:16:09 Deleting mapping Napkin = Chojin 10:16:15 That accounts for it too 10:16:18 !gamesby Napkin 10:16:18 Napkin has played 438 games, between 20070530 and 20100518, won 2 (0.5%), high score 1670184, total score 9769533, total turns 3462500, total time 845:37:07. 10:16:53 !nick Napkin Napkin Chojin 10:16:53 Mapping Napkin = Napkin Chojin 10:28:00 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:04 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:17 hello all 10:30:02 I need some help with vault lua, I think--I want to allow cTele once a monster dies, but I don't know lua at all =/ 10:30:12 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:23 ahhh? 10:30:33 I linked that in the wrong order? 10:30:37 !won 10:30:37 Napkin has won twice in 451 games (0.44%): 1xHEFE 1xTrBe 10:30:43 thank you, greensnark :)) 10:31:24 -!- joosa has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:31:24 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 10:32:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:31 -!- Luca__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:31 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:33:58 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:40 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:26 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:32 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:58 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:06 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:17 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:26 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:22 zipcode's farmer was one turn away from splatting :P 11:00:08 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:23 -!- Anym has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 11:21:08 -!- Enne has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:21:56 syllogism: lol? 11:22:25 ocs hit him, took his int from 8 to 3 11:22:36 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:28 farmer? 11:24:12 he just won with 267 runes 11:24:24 so, yes 11:24:30 pan farming? 11:24:34 yes 11:24:44 how many turns? 11:24:53 close to the limit? 11:25:00 841428 11:25:01 nah 11:25:12 only that many? 11:25:14 wow 11:29:35 -!- jedahan has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:30:00 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:15 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:56 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:26 -!- Bernt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:05 -!- ogaz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:03 -!- Bernt_ has left ##crawl-dev 11:45:19 back 11:58:26 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:49 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:22 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:52 there's a turn limit ? does the @ just keel over and die of old age ? 12:17:35 it's just the counter 12:18:43 philsnow: Yes, there's a turn limit 12:18:51 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:46 Pretty unlikely anybody will hit it though, since it's roughly 200M turns 12:20:03 Or 2G ticks 12:20:53 In Wizardry, characters could die of old age. 12:22:52 EV 11, AC -2, haha 12:23:20 greensnark: does hitting it actually do anything 12:23:31 !lg * max=turn 12:23:31 632948. Stabwound the Farming Skullcrusher (L27 MuSu), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb and 111 runes on 2008-03-09, with 9425283 points after 92568259 turns and 128:15:16. 12:23:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:23:59 dpeg_, ok, I'm back...changing the paradigm to "cFly, deformed body + evokable levi, perma-flight" seems like a big duplication of kenku / draconian flying stuff. 12:24:22 agreed 12:24:45 nrook: It should be fairly straightforward to enable TC when a monster dies, you should talk to due, he digs that kind of stuff :) 12:25:18 there'll be a lot of special cases to deal with though 12:30:07 Cryp71c: yes, I know. But it would be better balance. 12:30:58 Certainly, though I think we can come up with a better balanced version of ds wings that also has its own unique flavour. 12:31:07 greensnark: what do you think about removing the perks of flight (reduced carrying capacity and speed gain in conjunction with Swiftness)? 12:34:20 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:00 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:22 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:00 -!- jedahan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:45 -!- jedahan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:28 dpeg_: speed fine, carryweight no unless you just add the carryweight to all the classes base amount 13:14:45 felirx: why? 13:15:02 Do you use late game flight to increase CC? 13:15:56 you can get by without it...? 13:16:06 on my Sp this game I used a +6 ring of strength 13:17:49 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:01 people tend to carry a lot of useless crap they don't really need. I've managed well with 200-250 13:26:28 greensnark: alright, I will :) 13:47:00 syllogism: Hitting the time limit ends the game instantly 13:47:11 oh nice, now someone has to do it 13:47:33 dpeg_: Flight nerf is fine by me 13:49:13 So flight would only help for flying over stuff? Guess the spell level would be lowered too? I don't think it really qualifies as strong currently or such... 13:52:22 is the turn limit exactly 200m? where is the code 13:52:30 oh "roughly" 13:52:45 I wonder what message you get 13:52:55 just hold down 5 in temple as a mummy and see 13:53:15 Twinge: sounds like levitation 13:53:20 casmith789: I don't want to lag cao :( 13:54:36 nrook: do it offline? 13:54:54 I edited the turn count to 300M, but that didn't do the trick 13:55:56 ogaz: I'll try it at some point 13:56:47 moin moin 13:58:35 someone from the nh devteam has used the new sf beta download statistics: http://tinyurl.com/354w9jx and for crawl: http://tinyurl.com/3ya37b5 13:59:26 since february 43% of the downloads were from the usa and 66% from windows. for dcss it was 50% from the usa and 78% windows 14:04:15 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:31 bhaak: more real hackers in the NH world :) 14:11:48 greensnark: okay, thanks for the reply. I will then lobby for it. 14:12:44 Twinge: it is conceivable that there are storms and related spells/effects, which make flight much more desirable than levitation alone. 14:12:54 dpeg_: i'm not sure. there are significantly more mac downloads, not real unix downloads :) 14:13:44 bhaak: ah, those wimps :) 14:17:16 Can dragon armours have egos? 14:19:02 no 14:19:31 ok, thanks 14:25:33 Having higher Windows downloads than Nethack kind of implies to me that DCSS is more accessible and starting to become more likely to be playing by Some Random Person rather than only Crazy Computer People 14:27:56 following the SA thread has given me the impression that it can sometimes be finicky to get DCSS working on macs 14:27:57 Twinge: I am not sure how meaningful the download numbers actually are. The servers skew everything... 14:28:17 -!- Enne_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:46 -!- Enne has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:31:46 -!- Enne_ is now known as Enne 14:38:37 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:26 syllogism: the time limit checks the time elapsed, not turn count. 14:50:56 oh 14:51:24 and holding down 5 (actually, macroing something to 5555555 as pressing it would abort the previous wait) takes ~24h locally on a fast machine 14:52:27 that with a bot which pressed the key macroed to 55555555E (with far more 5s of course) whenever it saw the exp message 14:53:21 bhaak: I guess most of Linux/BSD downloads use their distribution rather than upstream (ours) server 14:54:40 dpeg_: back 14:55:06 greensnark: there was some weirdness on the weekend, if I remember correctly, but unrelated I guess 14:55:27 seemed like henzell hadn't updated !lg for cdo for two hours or so 14:59:27 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:00:29 by: Hi! What do you think about using Space and Enter for the stashes? 15:01:54 I think it's fine the way it is 15:02:38 but I wouldn't object if someone did that 15:03:04 that does make the interface more complicated, though 15:03:23 is it live on cdo yet? 15:03:38 no, don't think so 15:03:50 by: yes, I can understand that you think it's too complicated. 15:04:07 by: ...but are you aware of the monster that is the G prompt :) 15:06:44 also replacing the function of the enter key was a lot easier than adding an extra function 15:07:41 by: sure :) 15:08:18 by: if complaints come up, we can mention the Enter/Space proposal. It's better than toggle and option, at least. 15:09:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:41 dpeg_, so flight + swiftness is getting nerfed and we're back to ds wings giving deformed body, cFly, and perma-swiftness? 15:17:15 -!- jedahan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:45 Cryp71c: flight + swiftness is *not* getting nerfed on short notice 15:18:55 I will open a Mantis item for this. 15:19:07 k 15:21:28 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:25:59 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 15:29:17 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:43 dpeg_: even with 8~12 carryweight and flight, it`s sometimes tough and I don`t even carry more than one or two wands 15:31:01 Unless you happen to find a randart with +str 15:33:34 mainly with chunks 15:34:59 filed 15:35:28 felirx: what Strength was that? 15:35:43 Nerf Flight (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1580) by dpeg 15:35:44 I go to 8str base always 15:36:03 anything above that is from randarts, race bonuses or spells 15:36:34 There could be a way 15:36:38 sorry 15:36:54 I like it that CC at the lower end is now actually meaningful. 15:37:05 actually, you get the CC from jsut levitation 15:37:13 it`s not a feature of flight 15:37:17 ah, damn 15:37:41 doesn't really matter, but now my FR is broken :/ 15:37:48 carrying capacity being limited is good, but how limited it should be 15:38:11 felirx: it's mostly a problem for spriggans, right? 15:38:26 And they pay for the awesome speed, I think that's absolutely okay. 15:38:29 If a 8 str caster cannot carry his gear, one or two weapons, 1-3 wands, some heal/heal wounds/speed potions, scrolls and some chunks, it`s probably an issue 15:38:40 races like deep elf start at 4str 15:38:47 same with spriggan 15:38:53 but where's the problem? 15:39:05 They have nine opportunities to increase Str? 15:39:05 you go oerweight every time you butcher 15:39:32 isn`t that very very boring to force all the races that start at low end str to just raise that/ 15:39:52 felirx: no, it is a choice, which stat to push first. 15:40:15 Also, you can choose to ignore Str, thereby forcing you to rely on +Str items later. 15:40:31 that`s the thing, I already raise it 3-4 times 15:40:36 for a race like that 15:41:20 Does a dedicated caster like a DEWz really need three wands? 15:41:43 digging/haste/healing/disintegrate/draining/fireball are all very useful 15:41:45 A finite resource only matters when it sometimes hurts. 15:41:59 felirx: sure, but you're force to make choices. That's good! 15:42:27 You could learn dig/haste/drain/fireball... 15:42:45 they are always for the out of mana, shit hit the fan situation 15:43:03 felirx: ...choices! 15:43:18 If you want to play a character who can bring tons of tools, don't take an Sp! 15:43:38 try sublimination of blood and try carrying more than two chunks \( 15:44:07 A finite resource only matters when it sometimes hurts. 15:44:27 Gold and food matter not often. CC matters rarely. 15:44:37 But if those never mattered, something would be clearly wrong. 15:44:41 I just mean, in my opinion the 8 str+flight bonus is the ~minimum amount of carryweight that is not really annoying 15:45:07 felirx: the Str 8 is quite meaningless with the removal of stat deaths anyway... 15:45:22 only reason I pump str at all in trunk is the cc 15:45:25 new carrying capacity rules are great 15:45:29 haha 15:45:31 re: flight, lets change levitation to my proposal: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:effect:levitation 15:45:31 :) 15:45:46 Keskitalo: hi, you're lurking all the time? 15:46:23 the cc bonus from flight does not of course make any real sense in that sense 15:46:33 Keskitalo: yes, I approve. Would you add a link to this wiki page in the Flight FR? (And perhaps mention that levitation already gives the CC boost?) 15:46:35 my point is just that the cc bonus is borderline needed for those combos 15:46:55 maybe reduce chunk weight by a small factor? 15:47:13 felirx: what is the current weight of a chunk? 15:47:18 mmm 15:47:45 Keskitalo: MMM already linked your page :) 15:48:01 10 aum 15:48:03 I guess the FR will have a dozen replies when I come back tomorrow. 15:48:07 dpeg_: Yup 15:48:12 felirx: what's that of a wand? 15:48:22 wands 10 15:48:40 scroll 2, potion 4 15:48:52 dpeg_: (yup to lurking), the levitation proposal would be a lot of work (code and interface, and possibly AI too) but nice to see it get some love! :) 15:49:24 Keskitalo: I got Darshan to approve of the Flight nerf, which is why I boldly stepped forwards. 15:49:26 felirx: DE has low strength but is obscenely powerful magic-wise, sounds balanced to me.. 15:49:27 what`s the number for aum bonus from flight? 15:49:46 There could be an item that increases CC. 15:49:53 Could be a body armour ego. 15:50:23 or maybe for boots? 15:50:42 felirx: no, I want it to compete with items of resistance. Also, Sp cannot wear boots. 15:50:44 (but yeah, it is annoying to juggle cc. it's great that it/str matters nowadays though) 15:50:47 true 15:51:02 Keskitalo: but Str should be so much more than just CC. 15:51:18 Keskitalo: this reminds me: there was some wiki page you wanted to comment upon, so that I could comment your comments. 15:51:19 the most annoying thing is butchering something and having to drop half of the chunks down 15:51:23 every... single... time 15:51:29 plus body armour takes longer to switch, which makes it more strategic (not sure if switching boots is fast enough to use it tactically) 15:51:34 felirx: Yesss. 15:51:45 that is my main issue with the CC 15:51:54 felirx: hm, would it be better if you'd easily pick up only as many items as allowed? 15:52:20 dpeg_: I think I intended to add some weapon perk ideas, but I didn't think they were that good, apart from my knockback idea, which I should add (but I told it to you already in IRC) 15:52:23 so you`d only pick upto max cc and have to go overweight manually? 15:52:37 Keskitalo: ah, knockback! Please add it :) 15:52:41 felirx: yes 15:52:53 wands, potions etc should be limited by both cc and availability of course 15:53:04 Keskitalo: the weapon perks will allow to have Dex and Str matter. 15:53:05 I had stuff like flails and whips bypassing shields, but that would only matter against the player. Disarming was another short blades / whips perk idea, which might be nice early on against orc warriors and ogres, if reliable enough. 15:53:10 dpeg_: Yeah. 15:53:12 as a quick nerf to levitation to differentiate from flight, how about making it prevent stair travel entirely? 15:53:44 by: interesting, but also annoying. (Levitating itself is so annoying already.) 15:54:18 by: would you add it to the page? 15:54:30 mantis? 15:54:37 by: yes, newest item. 15:54:57 Keskitalo: If bleeding from claws works out okay, we can do the same for bladed weapons (taking Dex, I guess). 15:54:59 Keskitalo: clearly, shortblades need fencing moves 15:55:14 for reference, my MrCf of fedhas has 12 str, 392 aum cc and he`s carrying his gear, 7 wands, 3 chunks, 10 food items, 22 scrolls, 2 rings, 21 potions and 2 books 15:55:29 You parry the ogre! You execute a riposte! 15:55:53 morning all 15:55:56 Hi 15:56:38 felirx: sure, that sounds exactly like it should be. 15:57:16 a caster type should be able to carry something like that, minus ~4-5 wands, most of the food and the melee type potions 15:57:28 bug: my sprig just ate some pepperoni pizza 15:57:29 the nice thing with low carrying capacity is that you don't run out of inventory slots 15:57:44 jedahan: why is that a bug? 15:57:57 he was a clever sprig 15:58:05 he took of the salami slices and ate the pizza! 15:58:10 jedahan: last time I tried to get rid of pizzas, everyone was against me :) 15:58:32 no pizzas rock, but a sprig should not be able to eat a pepperoni pizza. maybe a description of taking the topping off and then eating 15:58:44 jedahan: not worth it 16:01:01 dpeg_: I wonder how feasible it would be to introduce damage type resistances and vulnerabilities to monsters, such as impaling being effective against creatures that have important insides, but not good against golems or skeletons (and average against zombies). 16:01:03 in german, peperoni is chili, not salami; what do the italians say? 16:01:21 peperoni is a green chili 16:01:25 jalapeno is the more fun stuff 16:01:46 Keskitalo: would be feasible. Dolorous is very good at stuff like this :) 16:02:02 by: ah, now I see your confusion. 16:02:21 Keskitalo: add it to the wiki, please. 16:02:48 fligth is too much of a nobrainer right now, that I agree with 16:03:17 It could lead into very interesting weapon choice criteria based simply on damage.. I wonder how the game could sustain such a system applied to it after so much of development. 16:03:29 felirx: that's a good reason, yes. 16:03:41 Zot is nicely heterogenous, I would hazard a guess that any weapon type could do well in there (against different enemies). 16:03:45 felirx: I wasn't aware of this (it's not something I ever abuse). 16:03:52 actually, pepperoni is a type of salami, peperoncini is a chili 16:04:00 But hells and pandemonium are frighteningly homogenous.. which should be addressed anyway. 16:04:12 Keskitalo: yes 16:04:36 However, I very much like the spell synergy like swift+fly, iceform+ozo`s armor 16:04:44 those are cool things 16:04:53 I imagine maces would do pretty well everywhere 16:05:15 Keskitalo: demon wiki page! <3 16:05:43 felirx: swift+fly is all advantage, no thought. 16:05:48 true 16:05:50 Iceform has a drawback.... 16:06:07 I agree that synergies can be interesting. 16:06:09 mainly the synergy like that is cool 16:06:15 not neccessarily the overpower factor 16:07:15 you could make fly decrease your chance to-hit, because it's harder to move in the air than on the ground 16:07:29 and discount the effects of any boots/bardings that people own 16:07:43 or, decrease to-hit and damage 16:08:03 casmith789: I am going (to bed) real soon. To the Mantis FR with the idea! 16:08:24 fly removing boots ego effects is a good idea 16:08:44 especially as Kenku and Draconians aren't hurt 16:09:07 only the running/stealth effect of course 16:09:15 I was thinking AC as well 16:09:38 but yeah, AC doesn't make much sense 16:10:09 decreasing damage certainly makes sense (no leverage in the air), decreasing to-hit also does but i could see this as being trainable, but nobody wants a "fly fighting" skill 16:10:24 tie it to power? 16:10:47 cancel lightning resistance, since you've no connection to ground ? 16:11:29 philsnow: no 16:11:33 but the minimal lightning resistance you get when levitating is awesome :( 16:11:38 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:54 (well, i'm not sure what lightning resitance's justification is: is it that you effectively have a lightning rod with you at all times, so electricity goes through that?) 16:12:06 Eronarn: Yes! 16:12:19 nrook: there's some lightning resistance while levitating? 16:12:19 Eronarn: Have you looked at my hell ideas? 16:12:47 philsnow: not real rElec, but some resistance to melee electric attacks or something 16:12:48 hell/pan are similar imo because the same monsters appear there. 16:13:05 dpeg_: Okay, added knockback, will think more about the damage type resistance/vulnerability thing. 16:13:19 hell just has random effects that don`t do much to some combos and are really scary for some others 16:13:51 Keskitalo: more monsters who are susceptible to some elements, too! 16:14:15 Keskitalo: thank you, I am off now. 16:14:29 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: zzz] 16:15:02 Me too. Cheers! 16:15:16 felirx: I farm hell effects. I think that isn't intended :/ 16:15:38 I farmed those too in hope of a demon whip of speed 16:15:43 oh right 16:15:48 I farmed them for TSO healing 16:15:52 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 16:15:56 settled on a +9, +9 slashing |( 16:22:09 Keskitalo: i don't recall by name :) but i might've! 16:22:22 i check the wiki every once in a while 16:24:41 hmm - how to get backspace work in the char/job selection in putty again? 16:24:51 on an unrelated note, crawl looks FUNKY on a piece of sh... s3 trio 2d with no drivers installed 16:25:04 crawl tiles that is 16:32:20 i have been playing more recently, it's been nice to have taken a long break 16:46:53 hmm, the new colours for selecting race are harsh 16:46:57 can barely see the white on the green 16:50:09 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:57 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:30 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:46 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:13 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:47 -!- jedahan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:47 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:35:46 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:40 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:02 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:14 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:46:54 Deep Dwarf shows wrong message when resting with full HP (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1581) by rlbond86 19:03:10 btw I just noticed you guys put in the aptitude simplification 19:03:12 great work 19:03:48 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:04 overpriced -2/-3 ring of slaying (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1582) by pixnaps 19:26:27 I need to catch dpeg some time 19:40:56 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:56 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:40:57 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 20:12:45 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:47:45 -!- Epyon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:46 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:05 Inaccurate description for confused cyclops (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1583) by Happylisk 23:03:28 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:19 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.]