00:25:55 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:13 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:01 -!- Abuse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:07 -!- Epyon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:32 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:57 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:40 Hi. 01:38:06 Repeating macros is broken again. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1538) by Kyrris 01:52:27 It was always broken. 01:52:36 Heh 02:00:40 -!- Fangorn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:51 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:30 Why is releasing a delayed fireball an ability? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1539) by OG17 03:16:57 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:15 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:08 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:15 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:05 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:43 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 04:31:25 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:59 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:21 -!- baturinsky has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:27 -!- baturinsky has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:23 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:14 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:15 Gnh, I want a forced more prompt for OODs and uniques coming to view. 05:42:29 autoexplore; problem solved 05:43:51 I have a giant leech behind trees, I think that stopped autoexplore. So I start goin around the trees (in my blood lust), and whee, there's Nikola. I think I took an additional step before I realised it. 39/89 hp.. 05:47:27 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:56:38 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 06:07:12 Keskitalo: "oops" :) 06:09:39 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:28 Survived, but won't be going there for a bit :) 06:12:40 Whee, slow movement mutation.. 06:16:00 03by * r9dc5ce5f16f3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (macro.cc macro.h): Track what keys in the macro buffer have been expanded. 06:31:14 Aizul on Snake:1, again! 06:33:30 Teleported into Roxanne's unmoving arms, but nothing that Haunt couldn't solve, apparently. I read a scroll of fog in a corner and gained a level. :) 06:34:13 Gretell informs me that Haunt, a couple of Ice Beast and a teleport is great against Aizul, too! 06:49:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:44 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:54 Haunt <3. 06:56:18 Pretty cheap kills, that's all. :/ 06:56:27 -!- Epyon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:30 Probably didn't need the fog for Roxanne. 06:56:52 -!- Epyon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:57 Burglary <3 07:22:46 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:15 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:37 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:40:48 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:03 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:46 Keskitalo! 07:45:12 I thought Keskitalo had been captured by sirens, he was awol for so long :P 07:45:27 I thought Keskitalo *was* a siren. 07:45:38 Maybe both 07:45:51 !lg * Shoals -tv 07:46:03 199. Tumbleweed, XL15 DSWz, T:49657 requested for FooTV. 07:48:11 Not bad 07:48:18 But not as awesome as Ahrin's splat 07:48:25 !lg * Shoals -2 -tv 07:48:26 198. Ahrin, XL18 DGNe, T:88210 requested for FooTV. 07:49:58 Has (default) autoexplore behaviour changed in 0.6? 07:50:25 Anym: Any specific questions? :) 07:50:34 When I kill an enemy with equipment, it doesn't seem to walk to/stop at the corpse anymore. 07:50:40 There are some annoying differences, yes 07:50:43 Yeah, that's one of them 07:50:51 It's fixed in 0.7 07:51:13 Any way to fix it with options? 07:51:20 Not in 0.6 07:51:36 I see. Thanks. 07:52:21 Hm, maybe I should skip 0.6 completely and jump from 0.5 straight to 0.7 trunk. 07:52:45 We're hoping 0.6 will be a short release 07:52:54 (I'm currently in my first 0.6 game and fiddling with all the options to get it juuuust right.) 07:53:00 *short-lived 07:53:29 Anym: So you use clear_messages=yes? :) 07:53:35 That's like a litmus test 07:53:59 I see. Keep up the good work! 07:54:22 greensnark: Of course. That was the second thing I changed. Right after travel_delay = -1. 07:54:39 You mean you don't use travel_delay=-1? 07:54:40 Heretic 07:55:00 greensnark: I do. The default's 20. 07:55:09 Oh, cao defaults it to -1 07:56:11 greensnark: Not with an empty .crawlrc, I think. 07:58:31 Yep, just re-checked. It may be -1 in the default .crawlrc, but not the "hard-coded" default if no setting is present. 07:59:16 Right 08:03:42 The first time I started 0.6 it actually gave me errors because of mon_glyph lines in my 0.5 .crawlrc for monsters which had been renamed, so I decided to blank the file and checkout the new defaults. 08:03:51 Anym: you feel it's laggy at 0 as well? 08:04:21 also, it's only 0 in CAO's default file 08:04:37 pineapple: Never tried 0. I prefer -1. 08:05:33 * due goes to bed. 08:05:33 -1 ? 08:06:13 (as i understand it. ther's no difference) 08:07:10 I would assume that -1 means no redrawing during travel/explore, while 0 means redraw as fast as possible 08:07:23 oh# 08:07:32 pineapple: I thought 0 meant that the next frame was drawn as soon as possible without waiting wheres -1 skipped drawing frames in between entirely, but I might be mistaken. 08:07:33 then my mistake 08:07:44 yeah... -1 feels laggy for me :-( 08:07:45 Yeah, what by said. 08:11:16 It's not quite as instantaneous as when playing locally, but it never felt laggy for me. 08:11:38 !seen dpeg 08:11:39 I last saw dpeg at Wed May 12 00:57:44 2010 UTC (1d 12h 13m 55s ago) saying LordSloth: congratulations! on ##crawl. 08:32:00 jarpiain: Did you ever do that IVAN tty port you talked about? 08:32:09 I would like an IVAN tty port 08:32:17 Tiles are ew 08:36:44 !tell jarpiain How's that IVAN tty port going? Inquiring minds want to know. 08:36:44 greensnark: OK, I'll let jarpiain know. 08:42:45 Anybody wrote a travel patch for IVAN yet? 08:54:48 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:54:49 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:42 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:58 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:12 03by * r83335965b479 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Completely reset previous target (#1435). 08:59:13 -!- by_ is now known as by 09:01:03 repeating spell casting doesn't abort properly (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1540) by rob 09:02:20 !lm clouded class=ne type=zig.enter 09:02:22 5. [2010-04-23] clouded the Shapeless Elf (L27 SENe) entered a Ziggurat on turn 162597. (D:22) 09:02:32 -!- Anym has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 09:03:05 !lm clouded class=ne type=zig.enter -tv 09:03:05 5. clouded, XL27 SENe, T:162597 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 09:03:48 !lm clouded class=ne type=zig.enter -tv:cancel 09:03:49 5. clouded, XL27 SENe, T:162597 (milestone) cancel requested for FooTV. 09:03:53 !lm clouded class=ne type=zig.enter -tv:>$ 09:03:53 5. clouded, XL27 SENe, T:162597 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 09:06:13 !lm clouded char=sene s=type 09:06:14 285 milestones for clouded (char=sene): 88x uniq, 65x br.enter, 32x zig, 24x br.end, 24x rune, 18x ghost, 13x god.worship, 9x abyss.enter, 9x abyss.exit, 1x god.renounce, 1x orb, 1x zig.enter 09:06:31 !lm clouded char=sene type=zig s=noun 09:06:32 32 milestones for clouded (char=sene type=zig): 2x reached level 5 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 10 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 3 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 12 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 9 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 2 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 14 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 7 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 6 of a Ziggurat., 2x reached level 11 of a Ziggurat.... 09:08:43 !lm clouded char=sene type=uniq s=noun 09:08:44 88 milestones for clouded (char=sene type=uniq): 6x Ijyb, 5x Psyche, 4x Jessica, 4x Blork the orc, 4x Harold, 4x Edmund, 3x Nessos, 3x Sigmund, 3x Terence, 2x Erolcha, 2x Norbert, 2x Jozef, 2x Boris, 2x Crazy Yiuf, 2x Frances, 2x Pikel, 2x Duane, 2x Grum, 2x Francis, 2x Menkaure, 2x Donald, 2x Josephine, 2x Maurice, 1x Duvessa, 1x Nergalle, 1x Erica, 1x Ereshkigal, 1x Saint Roka, 1x Polyphemus, 1x... 09:08:48 !lm clouded class=ne type=zig.enter -tv:cancel 09:08:49 5. clouded, XL27 SENe, T:162597 (milestone) cancel requested for FooTV. 09:09:03 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:09:26 greensnark: how about crash milestones? 09:13:04 !ttyrec clouded char=sene 09:13:05 38. clouded, XL27 SENe, T:226515: Can't locate remote ttyrecs 09:13:17 Crash milestones? 09:13:38 Oh, I see what you mean 09:13:39 would it be feasible for the crash handler to write a milestone, so we can watch the ttyrec through footv? 09:13:40 Nice idea 09:14:03 It should work, although the game may be in bad shape in the crash handler 09:14:14 i.e. it might emit a corrupted milestone 09:14:27 Or crash trying to open/write the file 09:14:38 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:50 yes, it sounds problematic 09:15:25 We could write the milestone as the last step 09:15:42 And avoid milestones for recursive crashes 09:15:51 if we store all of the data in a ready string somewhere, it should be safeish to write it 09:16:37 alternatively, is it possible to make footv seek by turn number already? 09:16:49 (or by date?) 09:17:33 for turn number, we'd have to either record that somewhere or do screen scraping 09:17:50 by date, every single frame is already timestamped 09:18:04 I thought greensnark was working on the turn number thing at some point 09:18:37 not that crash dumps appear to contain the turn number 09:22:56 KiloByte: do you remember if you fixed LOS for shatter, as well? 09:24:52 by: I think so, but I wouldn't bet my head on that 09:25:49 seems not; and seems that's #1412 09:25:54 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:02 you'd think the player would notice the LOS problems :) 09:26:08 commit message is: Update LOS for summon elemental, disintegration, firing wax/trees, forest fires. 09:26:35 yes, I'll try to do shatter 09:26:36 and it appears to be my only related commit... at least when looking for "LOS" 09:26:58 by: Turn timestamps are being written every 100 turns, I think, so FooTV can be modified to seek by turn, I just haven't got around to it 09:27:12 no one else committed anything with "LOS" in the message that claims to fix shatter either 09:27:38 Morning 09:27:49 KiloByte: yes, there's no code in cast_shatter either 09:27:52 Cryp71c: hi 09:27:58 Cryp71c: good afternoon! 09:31:55 03by * rae0916b66dcd 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Fix shatter not invalidating LOS. 09:32:56 greensnark: that will be nice to have, definitely 09:34:38 by, I'ma start making changes to implement unarmed attack effects 09:38:39 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:40:04 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:03 03by * ra113e479147d 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't try to go off-screen when printing descriptions. 09:51:26 by, since both players and monsters can bleed (eventually), I'm thinking of adding the bleed methods and bleed properties to actor, but I'm unsure as to the organization and methodology behind all of the inheritance between actor and player / monster. 09:51:33 any guidance here? 10:07:51 -!- phyphor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:57 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:24:39 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:31 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:41:38 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:52 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:29 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:48:54 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:15 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:54 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:59 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:09:14 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:07 -!- Spads has quit [*.net *.split] 11:31:18 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:31 evenings 11:31:55 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:28 yo 11:34:28 Hi there 11:34:37 hey all 11:35:31 Henry volunteered to do more patches! 11:35:40 He's the one who coded the new Ctrl-O screen. <3 11:36:02 :O 11:36:07 sounds like an upstanding citizen 11:36:14 elly: indeed 11:36:24 so, what's going on with you guys? 11:36:56 elly: hoping for 0.7 branching by June... 11:36:59 nice 11:37:09 This would be the tournament version. 11:37:23 I guess I should call for AC/EV feedback on ##crawl. 11:37:33 "my AC is too low" 11:37:43 That's the problem. 11:37:49 Very hard to get good feedback. 11:45:19 dpeg_: I see you're guilty of pronoun fail for Mara 11:45:32 This is another reason why you should read Lord of Light :P 11:45:35 greensnark: it's male? 11:45:49 ??Mara 11:45:49 mara[1/1]: Lord of Illusions! Mara creates two identical (stats, spells, weapon, armour) clones of himself, summons a hostile ghost (based on you), casts bolt of fire, blinks, and casts {Mislead}. 11:45:53 by offered to give me a copy once we meet next in Berlin 11:49:05 Lord of Light is a fantastic book 11:49:06 read it 11:53:16 crtl-o screen? 11:53:52 pineapple: yes? 11:54:04 what's new about it? 11:54:16 pineapple: it's completely different, try it out 11:54:36 when i'm awake enough to play, i will 11:57:37 dpeg, any eta on addressing training rights for the not-so-easily trained skills? 11:57:46 Or are those delayed until we address xp pooling and such. 12:11:55 Cryp71c: which skills do you mean? 12:16:44 dpeg_, hmmm, what was on that list...stealth, armour? dodging? I can't remember. 12:19:42 stealth is okay 12:19:58 armour and dodging have been sped up, simply by changing some number 12:20:30 I believe that they should train differently in a complety different way. There's a wiki entry on that. 12:21:26 One of the ideas is to get rid of "stand in a throng of rats" to grind up Armour. 12:22:40 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:46 mimics and unseen horrors work better 12:33:39 -!- Lemuel has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:17 instantly starved to death (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1541) by kogan 12:46:58 -!- phyphor_ is now known as phyphor 12:50:28 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:35 -!- Lemuel has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 13:13:32 Garbled message: "Your golden eye blinks at the eye of draining. The eye of drainingis unaffected" (no period at the end) 13:21:28 * greensnark hands Keskitalo the "Fix it!" banner. 13:21:44 !lg evktalo 13:21:45 115. evktalo the Summoner (L9 DSSu), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by an electric eel (bolt of electricity) on D:8 on 2010-05-01, with 3379 points after 14815 turns and 1:05:24. 13:22:12 Hm, I got a baily in orc:3 and now I just got one on D:13 13:24:16 st_: Anything wrong? :) 13:24:46 I didn't think that could happen 13:25:24 Why? You can get multiple bazaars and stuff 13:25:31 Are Baileys supposed to be unique? 13:25:45 I guess, but you don't get multiple wizlabs or volcanoes 13:26:47 Actually, you're right, it looks like they want to be unique 13:27:08 But the Trowel Bailey entry isn't protected from random gen 13:27:12 Can you file a bug? 13:27:22 will do 13:34:32 @whereis 13:34:32 No where information for Keskitalo. 13:34:34 @whereis evktalo 13:34:35 evktalo the Convoker (L17 HuSu), a worshipper of Vehumet, is currently on D:20 after 70677 turns. 13:36:39 Keskitalo: Looking good :) 13:36:44 Using Haunt much? :P 13:37:39 multiple randomly generated baileys (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1542) by st 13:40:26 greensnark: Definitely. 13:40:49 Gnh, I had 4 spell levels, should've memorized Amnesia. 13:53:44 Anyone know why monster poisoning uses ENCH_POISON instead of similar mechanics as to the player? 13:55:12 Player poisoning uses DUR_POISON, fyi 13:57:50 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:39 Cryp71c: What's your theory to account for the difference :P 13:59:22 greensnark, presumably different developers implementing each poison effect, but IDK. that's why I asked :P' 13:59:59 Take a look at how other effects like haste are handled for player vs monster :) 14:00:07 And then you can form a theory :) 14:01:09 03neunon * ra8fd158a1c2d 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: makefile: disable GNU Make implicit rules 14:01:15 And now, MinGW builds are faster. 14:01:16 neunon: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:01:22 !messages 14:01:23 (1/2) Luca said (1w 4d 3h 34m 10s ago): I added a bunch of compilation fixes for Visual C++ and clang at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1467 14:01:28 !messages 14:01:29 (1/1) ixtli said (1w 3d 23h 53m 56s ago): problem building rltiles/tool when I have any of the deps installed at /opt/local/lib in my path: http://crawl.pastebin.com/yz1BuHq9 . Build works when I remove it from my path. 14:05:50 greensnark, obviously other durations are handled as enchantments as well, and the enchantments are stored via a mon_enchant map. 14:06:26 Cryp71c: Cool, so you have half your answer there 14:06:35 mon_enchant is not the same as a player duration 14:07:01 And it uses an enchant map instead of a big vector of durations to save space 14:10:05 back 14:10:36 Keskitalo: Hi! There was something you wanted to comment upon on the wiki. Did that happen? I ask because I faintly recall that I was supposed to comment on your comment :) 14:11:04 dpeg_: Are Bailey's supposed to be one-per-game or duplicatable? 14:11:09 Er, Baileys 14:11:17 * greensnark shoots the superfluous apostrophe. 14:17:19 greensnark: I think it's okay to restrict to one. 14:17:38 dpeg_: Some of the entry vaults are marked unique, some not 14:17:48 And it is eligible for Trowel 14:17:53 Hence the question 14:18:40 So I guess we need an official decision? 14:18:43 * dpeg_ ponders. 14:19:10 * dpeg_ pulls out the die. 14:19:54 More than one is okay. 14:22:43 dpeg_, your alter ego messes up my tab-cycling :P 14:23:36 sorry! 14:23:58 :P 14:26:19 dpeg_, btw, what's the word for tentacles / wings / more ds (or for everyone?) body slot facets? 14:26:30 and if "yes", what's the timeframe for 0.7? 14:33:13 greensnark, does timeout_enchantments handles the decay of enchantments for affects monsters while you're off-level, ignoring any effects the enchantment should've had, correct? 14:35:33 Cryp71c: timeline is 0.7 branch by Juny, release by July 14:35:44 hmmm.. 14:35:54 On DS mutations, I think it's better to have few, but good ones and to expand later. 14:38:14 dpeg, do you have that formula for bleed damage on hand, by chance? 14:42:04 The one I keep sputtering around? 14:42:15 * dpeg_ is slightly distracted from looking Shaun the sheep. 14:43:25 dpeg_, yes 15:03:28 Cryp71c: bleeding comes in levels (as poisoning). Two parameters A and B. When having bleed level N, then with a chance of 1-in-A take between 0 and 1+current_hp*N/B damage. 15:05:55 4.1 bleeding (Cut) was probably pretty similar 15:09:42 Each new take of Bleeding adds something like 3+d3 turns of duration. 15:09:51 Shaun is so funny. 15:14:00 hmmm, this enchantment code is kind of wierd because of the need to scale durations for monster speed and there exists a 'degree' which seems a bit hazy as to its purpose. 15:14:15 At least in bleeding's implementation, that is. 15:22:48 May need to check with by to see a bit more detail on how that operates. 15:52:24 <3 this shit. Winxp install success, run windows updates. Result: "Missing or corrput ..../ntfs.sys" on boot 16:02:35 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:02:41 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:43 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:43 -!- Epyon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:35:44 -!- Abuse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:20 -!- xale has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:35 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:29 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 17:24:50 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:29 morning 17:50:54 Hi! 17:51:01 greensnark: I am also here :) 17:51:06 Hello :) 17:51:17 You naughty person, doing Shoals at XL 24 :( 17:51:35 What's the point of keeping Shoals difficulty in line with Swamp and Snake if everyone waits so long :P 17:51:50 !lm * rune=~barnacled x=avg(xl) 17:51:55 greensnark: in my game, I got the silver rune first. 17:52:01 dpeg_: Deplorable 17:52:13 623 milestones for * (rune=~barnacled): avg(xl)=19 17:52:18 It was not about doing Shoals late, but about doing Lair subbranches late. 17:52:18 I suppose I can unnerf javelineers and impalers to compensate for this 17:52:30 !lm * cv=0.6 rune=~decaying x=avg(xl) 17:52:30 I also wanted to add merfolk champions :P 17:52:32 211 milestones for * (cv=0.6 rune=~decaying): avg(xl)=17 17:52:32 And walruses :P 17:52:34 I barely manage to survive in Shoals! 17:52:41 dpeg_: Didn't look like that to me :P 17:53:11 You were just letting your cat walk over the keyboard and letting passive freeze and PbD destroy everything :P 17:53:14 We need seahorses. 17:53:24 PbD does not kill! 17:53:25 by's idea of kraken riders was good 17:53:25 dpeg_: Elephants, yes/yes? 17:53:29 Sirens riding kraken 17:53:39 dpeg_: PbD keeps your hp pegged to max :P 17:53:55 I've never managed to make it past D:9 or so. I'm always tempted to do Orcish Mines and die horribly :( 17:54:10 PbD is also a very good idea, it really is different to Makhleb's ability, or vampiricism. 17:54:23 A lot of overpowered good ideas lately :P 17:54:34 I like the new DS mutations, they're cool 17:54:35 riders: well, we would also get more pedestrian versions like orcs on wargs, too? 17:54:42 They're also rather unbalanced :) 17:54:44 greensnark: yes, I don't mind they're a bit strong. 17:55:00 People will love them, and the new DS; we will nerf them. 17:55:17 Well, DS were already pretty popular 17:55:25 And the DS game is already pretty easy 17:56:01 Also we have an increasing number of areas which are a bit too strong to attract players 17:56:28 And many of these bit-too-strongs are bit too strong in the mid-late game, which is a bit too easy already :) 17:56:37 Some other examples: new Vehumet, Haunt 17:56:40 Cheibriados 17:57:14 Whenever I play something broken, I come up with ideas to nerf. That's the only way... please report specific ideas. 17:57:43 Well, the thing is, DS difficulty is already at the low end, so if we're injecting a lot of powerful new mutations 17:57:47 There must be a drawback 17:57:59 I'm not saying it should be a fun killing drawback 17:58:10 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:22 I don't have specific ideas right now, but I'll chew on it 17:58:29 greensnark: well, if a DS mutation is particularly overpowered, we've got to nerf that mutation. 17:58:38 Apart from that, they could stand lower xp gain. 17:58:49 !apt DS 17:58:49 DS: Air=110, Armour=110, Axes=110, Bows=110, Conj=100, Xbows=110, Dodge=110, Earth=110, Ench=110, Evo=80, Exp=140, Fighting=100, Fire=100, Ice=110, Inv=60!, Long=110, Maces=110, Nec=90, Poison=100, Polearms=110, Shields=110, Short=110, Slings=110, Splcast=130, Stab=110, Staves=110, Stealth=110, Summ=100, Throw=110, Tloc=110, Tmut=110, Traps=110, Unarmed=110 17:58:52 After Elf, Vaults, Snake, Shoals I am at 25. 17:59:04 Why did you postpone Shoals to XL 24 anyway :P 17:59:15 No challenge at XL 24 :( 17:59:23 I should fine players who enter Shoals after XL 16 17:59:54 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:55 greensnark: I had my challenge elsewhere. 17:59:57 It's an interesting thing, but the regular branches have been weakened by interlevel travel 18:00:10 Huh? 18:00:11 Before if you entered Swamp, you'd go right down and get the rune 18:00:15 Regular branches? 18:00:23 Ah, balance by interface :) 18:00:27 Now you can skip the tips of the branches and flip away to a different place whenever things get hard 18:00:32 Yes 18:00:40 Interfacee changing game balance :) 18:00:50 We can (and perhaps should) add this in a different way. 18:00:55 The best players do it quite aggressively 18:01:01 For example, changing levels could cost additional food. 18:01:46 And there are other possibilities to make commuting less attractive. 18:01:47 That would disrupt stair-dancing a fair bit :) 18:01:55 that's good, isn't it? 18:02:09 Hmm, I'm not entirely sure :) 18:02:21 It's a double-edged thing 18:02:33 "And here we see a fine specimen of the stair dancers." 18:02:34 Stair dancing to separate and split monsters can be rather fun 18:02:43 Especially when you get an evil zoo, say :) 18:02:52 greensnark: well, this sort of very tactical use is rare, so you could still do it. 18:03:04 But the brainless "stairdance on sight" junkie would get hurt. 18:03:04 What was the other use? 18:03:20 Oh, zombies for example :) 18:03:25 Oh right :) 18:03:29 carrots could work as well, no? put a bunch of loot in Snake:$ and you will see many more players cleaning it early 18:03:31 Even I did it. 18:03:44 Snake:5 has loot. 18:03:44 nrook: At the cost of screwing with game balance in a different way :) 18:03:57 And yeah, Snake has al ot of good equip on the nagas 18:04:10 greensnark: well, everything has its cost :) 18:04:35 of course to be honest I do not even know how much that would help--Elf has a ton of loot and I go there very late 18:04:38 I've heard someone say that all the items that would be generated on the floor throughout the branch could instead be in the vault (so illusion of loot but not really) 18:04:52 greensnark: of your list (Che, Veh, DS, Haunt), can you sort by severity? 18:05:23 dpeg_: DS, Che, Haunt, Veh :) 18:05:30 I hope that Elf is more attractive earlier now, with the shops. 18:05:32 We could tentatively remove Veh from the list, he's not too bad 18:05:40 greensnark: sure about Che? 18:05:49 Is it just the +15? 18:05:54 But I think whole "Veh is underpowered" crowd were full of it 18:06:24 Vehumet is the best spellcasting god right now I think 18:06:30 Che powers have been given a bigger cost now, right? 18:06:31 dpeg_: ah, but it's a psychological issue, not a balance one :) I am well aware that I should do Elf earlier, but I don't 18:06:37 Well, what means "underpowered"? Relative to Sif? To Oki? Or what? 18:06:41 So it's primarily the large stat boost, yes 18:07:10 greensnark: well, that was only added to make ponderous somewhat attractive. 18:07:13 dpeg_: It was common wisdom on ##crawl that Veh was junk, which I believe may have inspired the recent improvements 18:07:20 Seems it managed to achieve the goal. 18:07:26 But Vehumet was pretty good, just not aimed at primary conjurer types 18:07:33 Vehumet was always a great god for reaver types 18:07:58 in particular I really saw no reason for the spell cost reductions :P 18:08:04 Range reduction, ok :) 18:08:10 Er, range increase 18:08:10 -!- Zannick has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:08:20 I still am not convinced about the Vehumet concept anyway. 18:08:39 vehu is great atm for what it does 18:08:49 Vehumet was always pretty good :P 18:08:51 felirx: yes, we discuss how much too good it is. 18:08:58 He's been given additional testosterone injecitons now 18:09:01 but needs to be supported by a channel effect to be amazing 18:09:03 I made my peace with Kiku -- a Nec god is probably okay. But a Conj god (and don't get me started on the Sum bit)... 18:09:16 dpeg_: Also, are we removing crystal balls of energy yet? :) 18:09:33 just double or triple the odds of confusion 18:09:35 greensnark: well, I have laid out a plan for misc item overhaul... 18:09:45 syllogism: nah, that's sticking with the crutch. 18:09:46 I think Summon Ugly Things is a nice new spell for Summonings 18:10:02 But a little underpriced :P 18:10:21 Isn't it the same cost as Ice Beast? 18:10:23 I very much enjoyed one game where I found a book shop with literally every book that is needed to win the game expect necro books 18:10:26 so took kiku for DSWz 18:10:29 don't know 18:10:38 airdrop nearly unlimited mana with sublimination 18:10:46 And of course, Haunt 18:10:58 Summoners are really very strong now 18:11:21 greensnark: still by spamming masses? 18:11:31 dpeg_: Ugly things and Haunt are great 18:11:41 Just going by what I've seen, haven't actually played summoner recently 18:11:43 greensnark: cool, sounds like quality over quantity 18:11:57 Well, not really quality 18:12:06 Summoners always emphasise quantity 18:12:07 compared to spammals? 18:12:19 Well, sorta 18:12:22 every summon spell is spam more to win iirc 18:12:31 at least the used ones 18:12:43 Ice Beast was an example of a spell that produced one relatively high-quality summon 18:12:51 I don't think anybody would bother with Ice Beast now though :P 18:13:10 Summon Ugly Things seems to be better in almost every regard 18:13:14 Well, apart from the chance of hostile 18:13:15 I'd probably use spammal->canine->ugly->horrible 18:13:44 I am fine with summoners trying to get masses... but we don't have to make it trivial for them. 18:14:03 felirx: You'd want to fit Haunt in there 18:14:05 Still like the concept of magical leash (for every active summon, you pay with MP). 18:14:10 Haunt's targeting makes it unbelievably good 18:14:14 true 18:15:52 dpeg_: Is misc item overhaul on the wiki? 18:16:34 Maybe we should keep a Balance page on the wiki with things to keep an eye on and possibly address 18:16:42 greensnark: miscies, yes 18:16:51 greensnark: agree on balance wiki 18:17:07 Ok, great, I'll put in some outline items there 18:17:12 This weekend :) 18:21:40 thank you! 18:22:33 three runes on my DSFi^Y... decision tomorrow 18:22:48 Go ahead and win :P 18:22:48 gotta visit Slime for the new walls, I guess 18:22:53 Oh right 18:23:19 Any interesting portal vaults? 18:23:38 are the loot chambers slimy/acidic too 18:23:56 only a Sewer early on, iirc 18:24:03 syllogism: no, don't think so 18:24:11