00:11:09 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:18 Can I disable 0.5 Crawl on cao 00:11:35 Every few days I find a 0.5 Crawl hogging CPU and RAM on cao 00:12:48 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:28 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:01 greensnark: is that what killed Henzell? 00:18:16 Yes 00:18:19 Henzell died on OOM 00:18:33 !tell dpeg I have windows (vista or xp) when i need to, but am not easily able to compile crawl 00:18:33 pineapple: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 00:18:42 ??oom 00:18:42 I don't have a page labeled oom in my learndb. 00:18:54 out of memory 00:19:00 aah 00:19:05 zombie whoring? 00:26:22 !tell rax 0.5 crawls are causing lots of out-of-memory problems on cao, I'll remove 0.5 and update frontpage. Let me know if we want to keep 0.5 around for some reason. 00:26:22 greensnark: OK, I'll let rax know. 00:46:29 ??ball of energy[5] 00:46:30 ball of energy[5/5]: Note that clarity will not protect you against the confusion that can be caused by failure. 00:57:46 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:19 greensnark <3 01:20:58 Hey due :) 01:21:07 I have a nice backlog of Shoals splats to watch <3 01:21:10 :D 01:21:12 Where have you been! 01:21:14 Iceland? 01:21:21 No, just busy :) 01:22:47 :) 01:23:13 Ooh, Sanka's splat is awesome 01:27:09 Oh, there's a Shoals vault with a stone giant in it :P 01:30:48 hahaha invisible turtle kill 01:31:16 Wand testing can produce such funny deaths :P 01:35:27 Hm, there was "The weapon returns whence it came from" spam in Shovelmint's splat 01:35:45 Without any visible weapon of returning action 01:44:08 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:44:42 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:03 hi 01:45:48 hey rob 01:49:27 -!- Abused has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:55 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:50:30 Nikola's chain lightning seems to produce no message when it hits the player 01:51:00 It does produce messages for hitting Nikola and other monsters 01:51:09 At least from the Shoals splats I see :P 01:51:31 hi greensnark 01:51:52 there were some recent chain lightning messaging changes, but they should just have affected noise 01:51:55 Hello 01:52:01 was this 0.6 or 0.7? 01:52:05 0.6 games 01:52:17 Pepperoni is an honourary vegetable. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1453) by Abuse 01:52:22 I'm catching up on Shoals splats 01:52:38 Some 0.7 games too, but the Nikola splats were cao 0.6 01:53:18 :) 01:53:37 did i spell that right? 01:53:40 honourary 01:53:43 "honorary" 01:54:01 "honour" is correct commonwealth spelling, but you lose the "o" in "honorary" 01:54:01 i can never figure out where teh britts stick those extra 'u's 01:54:02 :/ 01:54:12 Er, lose the "u" 01:54:19 weirdos 01:54:24 Honourary is acceptable, I think. 01:54:46 Or not.. 01:54:51 honourary sounds like something you put on bread for some reason 01:54:53 no idea 01:54:58 pizza 01:55:02 Honourary is incorrect 01:55:19 did you read my bug report ay? 01:55:27 I thought it might've been playable in scrbble, but no. 01:55:30 I used to have trouble with "pronounce" vs "pronunciation" in school :P 01:56:12 But nothing compared to the thrice-damned first 'r' in "surprise" 01:56:13 cast_chain_lightning has no messages for arcing with (see_source && see_targ) 01:56:27 heh 01:56:49 but maybe beam.fire() is also supposed to issue messages? 01:56:52 souprice 01:57:15 deliciouso 01:57:31 I would expect the beam code to announce the initial hit, but it definitely does not 01:57:45 Is the beam code actually used for the initial hit though/ 01:58:15 The sequence is "Nikola mumbles" (You take damage without message) "The chain lightning hits Nikola" 02:03:22 Why does searching for elephant statues give me statues of Ganesha? 02:04:00 * Madtrixr wonders where heard the name Ganesha before... 02:04:07 *he's 02:04:20 Lord Ganesha? 02:04:29 No... 02:04:35 I think it was from Persona 4.... 02:04:39 Lord of Light, by Roger Zelazny? 02:04:58 IIRC, Ganesha is a demon you can get... 02:05:08 In context, that's amusnig. 02:05:19 I bet. 02:06:06 I've attached the broken bones file to https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1376 02:06:12 If someone is looking at that bug :P 02:06:38 due: Ganesha is a Hindu elephant god 02:06:45 Well, elephant-headed god 02:06:48 Yes, I knoow. 02:07:04 Ah, elephant-headed is what's doing it. 02:07:13 They're not even *nice* statues of Ganesha. 02:07:16 Ah hah. 02:07:40 <+greensnark> due: Ganesha is a Hindu elephant god <-- So, yeah. Ganesha IS in Persona 4. 02:08:20 Lots of amusing myth around Ganesha 02:08:25 I bet. 02:08:25 Including his incredible fondness for food 02:08:36 greensnark: I'm up to 8 elephant statues. 02:08:43 Why do you need elephant statues? 02:08:51 I... have no idea. It's becoming an addiction. 02:09:03 Are you doing some elephant statue monster for a wizlab and looking for inspiration for a tile 02:09:11 But it's weird, ... oh. 02:09:16 Elephant WizLab, that would be cool. 02:09:19 lol 02:09:26 But srsly due. 02:09:27 No, I mean, I bought two more yesterday. 02:09:37 So I now have eight elephant-related ornaments. 02:09:37 Why so into Elephant statues? 02:09:45 Because they're cool. 02:09:53 uhhh...Ok. 02:10:05 :P 02:10:07 But only abstract. 02:10:31 I should eat, back in a bit. 02:10:49 !lg * 0.6 shoals s=ckiller 02:10:49 48 games for * (0.6 shoals): 9x a merfolk impaler, 7x a snapping turtle, 7x a harpy, 6x a merfolk aquamancer, 3x Nikola, 2x water, 1x trap, 1x Frederick, 1x a merfolk, 1x Maud, 1x pois, 1x a pandemonium lord, 1x Aizul, 1x a merfolk javelineer, 1x a manticore, 1x Ilsuiw, 1x an alligator snapping turtle, 1x Snorg, 1x a sea snake, 1x a stone giant 02:11:10 Poor javelineers 02:11:56 !lg * 0.6 shoals ckiller=pandemonium lord 02:11:57 1. bmoore the Severer (L18 DDWn), worshipper of Trog, slain by bmoore's illusion (woven by Mara) on Shoals:4 on 2010-04-06, with 191270 points after 50111 turns and 5:05:54. 02:12:01 Oh 02:12:03 argh, beam hit messages are issued from bolt::misses_player 02:12:41 by: why that "argh" worthy? 02:13:52 something occasionally breaks autoexplore in trunk 02:13:52 syllogism: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 02:14:29 syllogism: Are there any new super-broken DS mutations? :P 02:14:36 isn't ganesha the son of sita and rama? 02:14:40 There must be, because you're playing DS :P 02:14:55 syllogism: antennae? 02:15:02 by: that was my guess 02:15:03 it's been a long time since my orriental cutures class in high school 02:15:14 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:25 I've filed a bug report a while ago on some antennae problem; might be causing this also 02:15:29 greensnark: spines and demonic guardian are, but I had to choose between a boring HE and a DS and went with DS this time :P 02:16:20 Abused: Allegedly the son of Shiva and Parvathi, but there are all kinds of myths, which is unsuprising for an imaginary elephant-god :P 02:16:29 Also India is not the orient :) 02:16:49 ??nikola 02:16:49 nikola[1/2]: If you don't have rElec, go away. Even with rElec, he can be nasty. 02:16:53 @??nikola 02:16:53 Nikola (11@) | Speed: 9 | HD: 18 | Health: 190 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Damage: 20 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 3665 | Sp: shock, chain lightning, blink, b.lightning. 02:17:33 Ganesha predates Rama, no? 02:17:39 I haven't read Ramayana in a loong time. 02:18:23 Okay ,see you all in an hour or so. 02:20:18 sorear has a knack for introducing bugs that are hard to track down... 02:22:27 no messages for non-blockable non-beams (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1454) by rob 02:22:59 +by> sorear has a knack for introducing bugs that are hard to track down... <-- Yeah, he seems to be really good at that. 02:25:20 by: what is the problem? 02:25:39 no particular problem, filed #1454 02:27:45 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:01 Should spines be doing so much damage? :P 02:29:17 syllogism states 2d6 damage for two levels, which are probably easily achievable for DS 02:29:19 greensnark: you can oneshot the lernaean hydra with them :P 02:29:40 or 27-shot :P 02:29:51 lol 02:35:14 Are all the new DS mutations so strong? :P 02:35:29 I remember there was some icy armour mutation that did passive cold damage on being attacked 02:35:40 demonic guardian is a permanent 5,3,1 rank demon :P 02:35:42 Which looked ridiculously overpowered in the games I spectated :P 02:35:58 What kind of 1 can you get :P 02:36:01 any :P 02:36:07 Hm :P 02:36:25 it comes back after it dies 02:37:44 Are DS being weakened in any way to compensate for the new mutations 02:37:56 Because they were really good even in 0.1 :P 02:38:09 It's just that players used to scream "NOOO Horns!" 02:38:10 the apts are slightly worse, but that wasn't an intentional nerf 02:38:21 greensnark, yo! 02:38:28 cbus! 02:38:36 How's your Go going :P 02:38:42 and I suppose their lower attributes matter slightly more than they used to 02:38:47 since dex/str do a bit more 02:39:07 greensnark: also the new scale mutations are all strictly better :P 02:39:08 greensnark, ok, not that good, stuck at a rank :) 02:39:11 So overall they're as good as they were + super muts? :P 02:39:17 greensnark, but school is going better! soon finished with master thesis 02:39:21 pretty much :P 02:39:57 thatll make them more popular which is nice :) 02:40:07 since what I could see they weren't that popular before 02:40:19 they were pretty popular 02:40:21 Yeah, nobody played DS :) 02:40:43 @?? duane 02:40:43 Duane (08@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 136 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 22 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2912 | Sp: magic dart, slow, haste, blink. 02:41:36 I like the idea of better DS mutations, but it seems like each new mutation is over the top 02:41:46 mmm 02:41:51 Should be brought into line before 0.7 02:41:59 Is 0.7 going to happen before tourney? 02:42:11 there should be a ghost race 02:42:14 Or perhaps a 0.6 with the armour fixes 02:42:18 cant use items 02:42:20 :D 02:42:51 there's no way 0.7 is going to happen before the tourney, in my opinion 02:42:54 btw, how did the armour changes affect playing style? do anyone play heavy armour anymore? or is it just ultra hard? 02:43:03 DS seems to be the big issue from the 0.7 plan 02:43:51 Then perhaps a 0.6.x with the armour fixes? 02:43:55 And any other major bugfixes 02:43:59 or 0.7 without DS 02:44:05 ??nighstalker 02:44:05 I don't have a page labeled nighstalker in my learndb. 02:44:07 Or that 02:45:12 oh didn't realize 0.7 is more like 0.6.5 02:45:17 Any hypothetical re-tourney release would have to arrive by beginning of July 02:45:23 *pre-tourney 02:45:38 Which is about two months away 02:45:44 Not much time :) 02:49:05 Also if there are Sprint plants for the tournament, that should be discussed with rax up front 02:49:10 Ideally not on July 31st :P 02:49:37 personally, I don't expect 0.7 for tournament either 02:50:07 Crucial items on the 0.7 list seem done 02:50:12 Apart from kraken constriction 02:50:38 Depends on how stable it is, of course, I haven't been following it 02:50:53 would require someone to a) handle the release and b) make some more people code :) 02:51:01 I'd like at least the heavy armour fixes for the tournament 02:51:06 And the Che rebalancing 02:51:27 Yes, need a release manager to drive it, or it won't happen 02:51:55 If it doesn't happen we'll just cherry-pick those fixes and roll up an official or unofficial 0.6.1 02:59:43 -!- Gernony has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:15 You finish eating, Mmm... Yeuchh - Anchovies! 03:17:29 i didn't think spriggans could eat meat, even on a pizza. 03:39:24 They can eat meat rations, can't they 03:39:41 Processed meat == ok was the deal afair 03:39:50 Just as cows can eat processed meat just fine :P 03:39:55 no they can't :P 03:40:06 Oh, was that changed? 03:40:06 they could in b26/4.1 03:40:14 maybe in early SS releases 03:40:24 They could soon after they went veggie, yes 03:40:39 Haven't tried recently 03:40:53 "recently" :P 03:41:29 !lg . Sp 03:41:29 11. greensnark the Spellbinder (L25 SpEn), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2007-05-17, with 945784 points after 79992 turns and 13:59:14. 03:41:35 Been a while :) 03:43:05 "Made Spriggans herbivorous [3] and slow-metabolism. For playtesting of 1620744." 3 years 4 months ago 03:44:08 I think that spriggan game was with non-veggie Sp 03:44:24 probably, looks like they could still eat meat 03:45:22 oh wait 03:45:27 misread the commit message 03:48:45 !log greensnark race=sp 03:48:45 11. greensnark, XL25 SpEn, T:79992: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/greensnark/morgue-greensnark-20070517-174526.txt 03:51:47 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:36 sup 04:19:29 -!- Abused has quit [] 04:20:00 Did Vault:8 loot increase? :P 04:20:06 I don't have enough slots to pick up the interesting stuff :P 04:25:34 @whereis greensnark 04:25:34 greensnark the Black Belt (L21 HaMo), a worshipper of Xom, saved on D:27 on 2010-03-28 after 81177 turns. 04:26:13 !whereis 04:26:13 greensnark the Shatterer (L22 HuFi), a worshipper of Makhleb, is currently on Vault:8 after 86706 turns. 04:26:20 ah 04:26:42 Two loot heavy quadrants, but I suppose it was possible with the old layout as well 04:26:47 Given a bit of luck with the non-| items 04:28:13 Hm, apparently randart amulets of Faith don't autoinscribe correctly 04:28:30 In other news I'm going to lose 1/3*1/3 of my piety :P 04:28:50 lolwhat? 04:28:59 1/9? 04:29:02 1/3...#1/3? 04:29:04 Er, not 1/3*1/3, but 1/3 twice :P 04:29:11 so... 04:29:17 2/3? LP 04:29:20 *:P 04:29:28 I just took off my "oFaith and ided a randart "oFaith :P 04:29:29 I know what you mean...maybe. 04:29:35 And I have all these other amulets to id :'( 04:30:00 Great, now all I can use is minor destruction :P 04:30:04 1/3 + 1/3*(1-1/3) 04:30:07 Good thing I waited until I cleared Vault:8 04:30:29 makhleb piety is easy enough to come by 04:30:30 Yeah... 04:30:37 Kill things. 04:30:42 Am I wrong? 04:30:53 Hm, guardian spirit also doesn't autoinscribe correctly 04:32:50 Inaccuracy with EV+6 :P 04:32:52 Tempting :P 04:34:48 03by * r21d205b0f19c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (arena.cc initfile.cc ng-setup.cc startup.cc): Reenable arena. 04:34:57 that ev won't do much : 04:34:59 P 04:35:28 Yeah, and since I've cleared the rest of the dungeon, I have no place to rebuild Makhleb piety other than Zot :P 04:35:40 tomb 04:35:40 Had to lean on Makhleb pretty hard to clear Vault:8 :P 04:35:48 Right, that's going to happen 04:35:52 Well, good luck GS. 04:35:57 abyss 04:36:03 Pan. 04:36:08 :P 04:36:17 To Hell with it :P 04:36:34 haha. 04:36:50 Ok, ciao, back later 04:36:52 -!- greensnark has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:37:09 !tell greensnark do slime 04:37:09 by: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 04:47:03 did greensnark say where he had been; just busy? 05:06:03 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:18:15 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:57 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:02 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:02 -!- Blitz82 is now known as Madtrixr 05:31:10 Hio. 05:31:20 hi ixtli 05:31:26 Hows it going? 05:32:06 sc2 is distracting from crawl dev 05:37:31 ??arena 05:37:32 I don't have a page labeled arena in my learndb. 05:37:36 ??fightclub 05:37:37 fight[1/7]: the best(/spammiest) invention since ever. telnet termcast.org (FightClub channel) to watch. "!fight cancel" to end a fight that's stalled, or repeat the same command line with "cancel" at the end, e.g. !fight butterfly v butterfly cancel. 05:37:41 ??fightclub[2] 05:37:41 I don't have a page labeled fightclub[2] in my learndb. 05:37:46 ??fight[2] 05:37:46 fight[2/7]: Examples: "!fight 20-headed hydra v 10 kobold ; scimitar ego:flaming", "!fight 99 orc v the royal jelly", "!fight electrical eel v 10 rat". Note the syntax for some monsters -- make sure you aren't pluralizing, and spell monster names correctly. 05:38:59 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:38 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:55 I return. 05:52:14 pluralising is spelt wrong. 05:52:29 03by * rfba03ac69d08 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc initfile.h): Remove obsolete SysEnv.board_with_nail. 05:52:30 03by * r3ca5ad332ae2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Allow starting the arena from the startup menu. 05:55:06 So we now have bugs in haiku and iambic pentameter. 05:55:29 board_with_nail? 05:56:00 Zaba: apparently at some point you could rename giant spiked clubs to board with nail via environment variable 05:56:12 wtf 05:56:17 that was removed some time over the course of stone soup 05:56:29 I see 05:56:40 <3 05:57:04 Why was this removed? :( 05:58:00 security reasons? 05:59:42 because customizing item names through environment variables or options is stupid? 05:59:55 Well, yeah. 06:01:10 that reminds me of pizza 06:03:58 wow, there is actually code to account for herbivores in the pizza messages, it's just broken? 06:04:30 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:55 by: Yeah. 06:04:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:10 I looked at it and went "wah" earlier. 06:06:26 03thewparker * r76a5c0c7ff55 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Fixed pizza messages 06:09:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:14:34 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:42 -!- lorimer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:36 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:29:47 -!- lorimer_ is now known as lorimer 06:30:15 !tell Cryp71c Assigned some DS bugs to you -- if you don't want them, feel free to unassign, just thought you might have missed them. 06:30:28 by: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 06:30:30 Henzell gone again? 06:30:33 Ah, laggy. 06:37:45 -!- Horst has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:53 hi 06:45:01 fr 998 should be resolved now 06:48:02 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:48:41 1218 needs to consider the species/background order 06:53:21 felirx: currently it works using the orders in jobs.cc/species.cc, right? 06:53:34 it starts from 0 06:53:42 and uses get_species_by_index 06:53:50 or whatever the function was 06:54:58 in essence, it uses the species_order[] table if you follow down the backtrace 06:54:59 I think that just looks up species.cc:species_order, and you can change that 07:01:14 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:27 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:14 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:26 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:31 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:42 elly: Ping, can you add felirx to the autovioice list? Thanks ,3 07:46:37 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:38 what on earth gois on with the _prompt_book 07:50:46 ah nevermind, it uses the book item_def to get the book text 08:12:31 pickup/drop polish (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1455) by dpeg 08:14:13 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:12 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:47:13 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:25 -!- by_ is now known as by 08:49:27 03by * r7401b9634798 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files): Slimy walls. 08:58:38 which help page shoud % list for god choice or should I just drop that option? 08:59:17 maybe just the Religions page? 09:14:38 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:58 <3 bugged out files that msysgit sometimes produces 09:15:08 religion.d 0kb, write access denied 09:15:19 you need admin permission to delete this file 09:16:06 felirx, yeah I get those sometimes too 09:16:06 Cryp71c: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:16:10 !messages 09:16:10 (1/2) dpeg said (15h 16m 57s ago): I guess you died? I had a lava death very recently. was quite annoying. But I am not sure we should prevent it. 09:16:14 !messages 09:16:15 (1/1) by said (2h 45m 47s ago): Assigned some DS bugs to you -- if you don't want them, feel free to unassign, just thought you might have missed them. 09:16:20 now how on earth did I delete those last time 09:16:35 by, thanks, you (or anyone) can feel free to assign those types of things to me freely 09:16:46 though I'll try and catch them myself 09:24:40 due: done 09:25:23 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:02 -!- badp has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:11 -!- Cholfo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:18 Is there some kind of inobvious problem that is getting in the way of an online-capable tiles client, or is it just something that would require more time and effort than anyone's been willing to put in yet? 09:29:07 well, the interface code and game code would have to be separated 09:29:32 in essence, you would have to turn crawl to proper MVC 09:29:38 The current tiles code goes deeper than just wrapping the data that is otherwise presented in ascii? 09:29:40 after that, it would be trivial to add network layer 09:31:07 I honestly haven't read much of the source related to the tiles interface, I assumed it worked more as a GUI wrapper than a standalone crawl environment. 09:31:14 Cholfo, yes, I believe that is how it is implemented, tiles is not just a presentation layer, when you compile a tiles-version, its embedded inside the code. 09:31:38 Cryp71c, it does not 09:32:17 Wait, is tiles just a presentation layer, or is it tied in with the game code in a deeper way? 09:32:35 It's as tied to the game code as the ascii interface. That is, deeply. 09:33:08 Zaba, what was "it does not" directed at? 09:33:20 Gotcha. So if a tiles client was created that worked more as a presentation layer than as a client-version, it would just be a matter of adding a network layer to it? 09:33:40 Cryp71c, it was directed at Cholfo :P 09:33:49 Zaba, ah, tabfail :) 09:34:29 Is Xom listed as unviable for chaos knights? 09:34:48 felirx, isn't Xom one of the starting god-choices? 09:34:57 I'm converting the starting menus 09:35:03 Cholfo, the first step would be to separate the interface from the game logic internally. And that is not limited to the tiles interface. 09:35:05 weapon is done, book is done, god is now on test step 09:35:36 felirx, ah, yes. Xom is one of the starting choices for CKs 09:35:47 What would be inherently wrong with simply creating a GUI interpreter for the display information already being transferred over SSH? 09:36:38 Rather than essentially re-designing the game. 09:36:53 the game begs for redesign, not yet another layer of ugly hacking... 09:37:00 Crawl-Putty as opposed to Crawl-Internet-Edition 09:37:16 you would also miss information 09:37:22 Yes, but that is beside the point, we're talking viability. 09:37:24 eg hobgoblin that is wielding a club and a buckler 09:37:30 Well yes, but it's more an issue of how much information. 09:37:30 Cholfo, yeah, what Zaba said, that would cause endless lists of bugs and performance issues 09:37:44 It would be a hell to maintain. Output formats change at a whim. 09:38:06 That's a good point. 09:38:13 and limiting the flexibility of improving the *human oriented* interface because there's a program that uses it in a strange way... 09:38:16 well.. kinda silly. 09:38:26 hmm, what about using private unicode codepoints as representatives for graphics tiles? 09:39:08 you still need a special program to interpret it, of course 09:39:17 best approach would be to have the game logic run on server, input gets sent to server and whatever happens comes back as results 09:39:28 the client would display the current status of the world from server model 09:39:29 map glyphs are just a half of it 09:39:38 but that calls for extensive refactoring of codebase 09:39:45 felirx, indeed. 09:39:52 felirx, yep, indeed that would be the best approach, and yes...it would cause for major rewrites. 09:39:57 That would make sense, and it would be a simpler refactoring than divorcing the interface from the rest of the code 09:40:46 Cholfo, what felirx describes - I think - implies divorcing presentation logic from gameplay logic 09:40:56 It would not be a simple refactoring. 09:40:58 indeed it does. 09:41:07 what I proposed is the basis of MVC 09:41:12 it implies said separation, *and* a lot of things afterwards 09:41:12 It would be a major-version rewrite that would take months 09:41:16 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:41:19 Cryp71c, years. ;P 09:41:34 well, if you had multiple developers who knew what they were doing..months. 09:41:42 The result would be, I guess, somewhat like Crossfire, but less graphics-oriented, and single-player. 09:41:47 but since that doesnt exist with crawl, and we typically have one developer per area of expertise, years indeed. 09:41:54 I think I need to dig around in the source more to get a better understanding of what exactly is being handled how currently. 09:42:03 Cholfo, yes, that's a good start :> 09:42:06 I came in here to ask the question more as a waters-test than anything else. 09:42:30 Cholfo, get familiar with the code, inasmuch as the code lets you. :P 09:42:45 I'd guess the best starting point would be TileFramework::getch_ck() 09:42:53 Honestly, I love Crawl to death, and I know plenty more about C than I probably should after 3 years of the UTD CS program, so I'd like to give back. 09:43:01 It's C++, though. 09:43:06