00:24:44 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:49 -!- ahpla has quit [Quit: hardware upgrade (again)] 01:06:19 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:40 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:30 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:11 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:11 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:18 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:52 -!- Abuse has quit [] 02:24:46 03by * r9e76d334eb08 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Default game type to "normal" instead of undefined. 02:29:54 I'll try upgrading again. 02:31:26 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:38 -!- Vandal has quit [*.net *.split] 02:31:38 -!- ivan has quit [*.net *.split] 02:37:32 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:32 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:24 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:50 mornings 02:43:43 !seen Cryptic 02:43:44 I last saw Cryptic at Thu Apr 1 14:46:51 2010 UTC (3w 5d 16h 56m 52s ago) joining the channel. 02:43:48 !seen Cryp71c 02:43:49 I last saw Cryp71c at Tue Apr 27 22:00:51 2010 UTC (9h 42m 57s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 02:57:35 Morrrnings 02:58:10 Keskitalo: if you have a moment, would you look at the Weapon Perks wiki page? I have the feeling it is slowly converging somewhere... 02:59:55 dpeg: I'm afraid I don't have one, but that sounds like good news! 03:01:26 Keskitalo: it's not urgent... we're talking 0.8 the earliest. I'd just be interested in your comments, no matter when. 03:02:02 I'm at the ending seminar of the usability testing course, where they represent the results and so on of their work. 03:02:16 dpeg: I'll take a look when I get the chance, certainly. :) 03:02:28 Yay :) 03:03:51 hi 03:03:56 Hi due! 03:04:00 Hi due! 03:04:03 CDo's updated and working 03:04:11 Their team is called Immortal Warwalrus. That is a good name. 03:04:16 due: Awesome! 03:04:26 Keskitalo: just saw that :) 03:04:35 My DS has nightstalker + antenna. This is fantastic, but there's a bug with LOS. 03:10:24 I'll do some work on the tutorial tonight too 03:10:39 dpeg: Has Johanna said anything about it? I'm intereted in her input, seeing as she did the original tutorial (well, a lot of work to it). 03:10:52 Also, a big priority is to get the original tutorial working again. 03:13:52 Eek, the show is on! 03:18:11 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:18 due: She is in favour. Johanna and I conceived the original tutorial, but it was a very spontaneous operation. 03:18:27 Keskitalo: good luck! 03:24:18 This is good stuff, funny too, hopefully we can get this stuff to the wiki soon. :) 03:24:50 They tested the previous tutorial, lot of the same findings as the UP team findings 03:28:34 * Too much text; * Things happen out of sequence (is it a tutorial or a real game?); * Difficult keyboard commands; * Incomplete mouse support; * Important info hidden (what stats mean, how does equipment affect you); * Colour scheme (messages are grey, could me more colour coded (if bad, or good); * Game world interaction (combination of all - game hard to get into) 03:29:43 User opinions: * Too much text; * Too many keyboard shortcuts (that are necessary); * Some wanted animations for melee combat (spells are ok); * Hard to get into, to understand what's happening 03:31:04 oy oy 03:32:33 Yeah, I think the new tutorial addresses the first few, mouse support is being made better. 03:32:54 heh 03:33:00 i was just reaidng the usability project thing on the wiki 03:33:04 very neat :) 03:33:10 Eronarn lives! 03:33:21 was there any thought otherwise? o_O 03:35:00 due meant: Eronarn plays :) 03:35:40 if i play the game too much i will just get burned out, taking a break :P 03:36:10 Ive got warwalrus' heuristic evaluation up in the wiki; I'll add explanation and user testing results later 03:36:27 "playing" includes "talking about it" =) 03:36:30 They're telling that they enjoyed the course work :) 03:36:36 hey, nice 03:36:46 Keskitalo: these were players without any rl background? 03:36:52 yes 03:37:03 designing the testing was interesting because of the random nature of the game 03:37:15 Keskitalo: for someone used to commercial games, playing something like DCSS must be so ... awkward. 03:38:15 their all three testers were different: first one was very straightforward, dive-right-in, never read any texts 03:39:06 dpeg: solution: get more commercial games to be as good as DCSS 03:40:07 Keskitalo: would you add a link to https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1212 in the walrus report 03:40:29 It is curious that Johanna complained about lack of any hint of a story... So we came up with some one-liners. 03:40:50 Eronarn: unfortunately, this is impossible for principle reasons. 03:41:48 the second one was "dream player" for use (in their opinion :D), read all the texts 03:41:52 the third one was in-between 03:42:13 "Compared to other roguelikes the game is familiar, maybe even too familiar." 03:42:17 Need better gods. 03:42:26 no lack of cool god ideas out there! 03:44:27 They're playing some videos of the testing, killed by ogre, Jessicae, roasting jackals.. 03:46:52 Jessica <3. 03:48:26 Keskitalo: just read the walrus page, good stuff (given that they're new to the whole rl idea). 03:48:40 by: after that -name change, CDO says: "Welcome, KiloByte. Please select your species." "What is your name today?" -- and it allows you to answer anything 03:50:55 like, I was just able to log in as dpeg 03:51:40 dpeg: Well, not exactly - the evaluator who did that was familiar with roguelikes. 03:52:30 Good stuff yes, especially I like the noting that player should be given a bit more info about how they are progressing in the overall game. 03:52:41 KiloByte: I am flattered that you took me :O 03:53:03 Really? Awkward. 03:53:11 Keskitalo: I feel the new Ctrl-O screen helps in that regard (and could be improved with that goal in mind). 03:53:12 Do I need to regress CDO again? 03:53:27 Guess so. 03:53:33 dpeg: to be honest, Napkin has no current game, I @whereised him first :p 03:53:35 dpeg: Yes, absolutely. On the other hand, that screen is behind a difficult keyboard command. :) 03:53:41 Keskitalo: damn :P 03:53:53 ^ for kilo, of course 03:53:56 But the information is great, especially showing the branches, and the depths 03:54:08 Damn it 03:54:08 No, you should say "damn" at that. :) 03:54:10 Napkin, ping 03:54:37 actually, what about looking at the bug first? 03:55:07 does CDO run Crawl with -name? It doesn't work this way locally... 03:55:18 /bin/crawl-svn-9e76d33 -name Ber 03:55:36 Keskitalo: I could imagine that it's possible to come up with a nice, graphical overview of the whole dungeon... 03:55:47 Napkin: If you're around, can you disable the latest trunk build as default? 03:55:49 dpeg: Oh yes, that sounds awesome! 03:56:09 as in, an ASCII graph? 03:56:10 dpeg: Could also indicate which branches have runes. Maybe even, which branch ends have loot! 03:56:31 I'll post the usability testing results later, once I get them. I understood that they're partially (maybe even mostly) in Finnish, though.. 03:56:39 and which branches have nasty troll-eating greensnarkish merfolk 03:57:04 Damn, can't regress, two people have transferred saves. 03:57:10 Napkin, Napkin, Napkin! 03:57:19 mmh? 03:57:23 what's up? 03:57:42 need to remove a build? 03:58:52 Yeah, current build is broken. 03:58:57 ok 03:59:03 Well, not badly broken 03:59:07 Just leaky 04:00:15 morf and Ber have relatively progressed games 04:01:10 gee - people restart their game immediately the second I kill it? 04:01:18 you doing that on purpose, KiloByte? :-P 04:01:32 Napkin: no, I'm not even in a game 04:01:48 i killed your login 2 times 04:01:59 which was started like this: /bin/crawl-svn-9e76d33 -name KiloByte 04:01:59 just in the CDO menu, not having touched it for several minutes 04:02:13 then someone else is using your login 04:02:58 or maybe the save-game took longer 04:03:08 than expected. nevermind 04:03:16 :) 04:03:17 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:20 hey rob 04:03:24 hi 04:03:24 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:03:25 by, more issues with CDO :( 04:03:35 what issues? 04:03:44 by: after that -name change, CDO says: "Welcome, KiloByte. Please select your species." "What is your name today?" -- and it allows you to answer anything 04:04:07 by: this including loading another player's save 04:04:14 we should probably #ifdef out the start menu entirely for DGL 04:04:25 the way it's currently avoided is kind of fragile 04:06:19 but still, don't know why that happens 04:06:44 ok, downgraded 04:06:46 non-DGL build works fine with crawl -name whatever -- has someone tried a DGL build like that? 04:06:49 if the name is already chosen, it shouldn't ask again -- and it is chosen since it showed in the welcome message 04:07:34 Napkin: thanks 04:07:45 by: I haven't, I've been working o tutorial 04:07:52 the only case this exact message appears is after: if (choice->name.empty()) 04:08:03 KiloByte: yes, I was looking at the wrong thing 04:09:14 How are people going to enter the tutorial via CDO? ./crawl -tutorial? 04:13:39 no idea how choice->name would show up empty, however 04:16:54 -!- MarvinPA-2 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:25 aha, can reproduce it by backspacing during character choice 04:18:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:18:24 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:57 03by * r6720bce040e4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (newgame.cc startup.cc): Properly disable name choice for DGL builds. 04:22:58 03by * rff17b10f29cd 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Sanity check in choose_game. 04:23:02 03by * r41afedaaec0f 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Fix char choice reset blanking name and game type. 04:23:25 does anyone here use DGL_REMEMBER_NAME? 04:23:45 anyway, please try updating cdo again 04:25:52 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:06 wil do 04:27:15 Napkin still around, or shal I do it? 04:29:00 hm 04:29:08 Done 04:29:12 KiloByte, by, test and let me know 04:29:28 also 04:29:30 http://pastebin.com/WDKraTch 04:32:01 hmm? 04:32:13 can't at the moment 04:36:08 interesting... I got a message about Unicode not being available falling back to ASCII... yet in the game I got proper non-ASCII glyphs, and after save+restore the message is gone 04:41:55 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as MarvinPA 04:42:32 attention, ASCII porn 04:42:34 1234567890 1234567890 1234567890 1234567890 04:42:34 1234567890 1234567890 1234567890 1234567890 04:42:37 1 11 04:42:40 XXxxXXxxXXxxXXxxXXxxXX................................ 04:42:42 | 04:42:45 TT 04:42:47 | 04:42:50 OOooOOoo 04:42:52 | 04:42:55 EEeeEEeeEE.... 04:44:37 Keskitalo: something like this ^. Colours of branches would be native (lightgreen for Slime etc.). We'd indicate the depth of branches and how far the player progressed. 04:45:17 Sounds like a good target for \o/ patches wanted :) 04:46:15 KiloByte: I kept getting a travel_stoppers.txt missing alert 04:46:33 due: we all do, I think. 04:47:26 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:02 started a new game, no error messages at all this time 04:48:19 you need to reset your config, due 04:48:23 KiloByte: did you have a look at the weapon perks wiki? I completely revamped it, it's also shorter now. 04:48:31 or remove the reference to the old txt file 04:48:37 it got renamed 04:49:05 !seen felirx 04:49:06 I last saw felirx at Wed Apr 28 02:44:29 2010 UTC (7h 4m 36s ago) saying if this game had manapools in the traditional sense, where a mage type could have ten times more mana than HP, id see the use on ##crawl-dev. 04:49:09 My game just died? 04:50:38 * due dies on dpeg. 04:55:57 dpeg: if there's a crash, you get kicked straight to the CDO prompt, without getting a chance to see the error message 05:02:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:50 KiloByte: no no, I've been playing my game until 30 minutes ago. Then I saved. When I wanted to resume, I got to choose a new character. 05:06:44 15 minutes ago, @whereis said: dpeg the Destroyer (L13 DSVM), a worshipper of Fedhas, saved on D:14 on 2010-04-28 after 43826 turns. 05:06:47 @whereis 05:06:47 KiloByte the Chucker (L1 TrHu) is currently on D:1 after 0 turns. 05:07:00 dpeg the Bludgeoner (L21 DSFi), a worshipper of Jiyva, dead on D:13 on 2010-04-16 after 112768 turns. 05:09:14 I think I know what happened 05:11:12 by: tell me, please. 05:11:19 fixing at the moment 05:11:22 That was the DS with nightstalker + antenna :) 05:11:32 now he's gone 05:11:39 into the shadows :) 05:12:43 dpeg: The dungeon graphs sounds good to me! I've drawn some of those by hand when explaining Crawl's dungeon structure to people. :) 05:12:52 03by * r8e44b7c5838a 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Fail more gracefully if name not specified with DGL. 05:12:54 dpeg: if you didn't actually choose a new character, the save is probably still there 05:12:54 03by * r4261ca118fce 10/crawl-ref/source/startup.cc: Don't rely on find_saved_characters to determine if save exists. 05:13:26 Keskitalo: It can look really fancy. I'll try to make a mockup in colour for the wiki later. 05:18:54 oh, please update cdo again 05:19:03 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:25 -!- felirx_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:33 -!- pineappl1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:55 by: doing 05:23:16 thanks 05:24:09 Done. 05:24:11 -!- Spads has quit [*.net *.split] 05:24:12 -!- felirx has quit [*.net *.split] 05:24:12 -!- zenna has quit [*.net *.split] 05:24:12 -!- pineapple has quit [*.net *.split] 05:24:12 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 05:24:45 Woo netsplits. 05:25:26 dpeg: could you try continuing your game again? 05:26:57 03by * ra23089eb55c6 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Safer handling of random species/job resolution. 05:27:17 -!- zenna has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:59 a silly idea: what about a Temple layout that features several altars of Lugonu, some discoloured walls, and nothing else? 05:31:05 with 14 overflow altars in the main dungeon 05:32:21 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:32 ++! 05:32:39 Er, +1. 05:46:17 Total crash on examining a particular item in a remote shop (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1443) by nubinia 05:47:31 Interestingl. 05:50:47 the report isn't very helpful :P 05:51:26 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/nubinia/crash-nubinia-20100428-104336.txt 05:51:29 that is. 05:59:03 /home/kilobyte/crawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des:1637: Temple vault must contain at least one altar. 05:59:20 Should I remove the check, or leave some altars uncorrupted? 06:02:23 I would remove it without thinking, but it can help against badly broken vaults otherwise. 06:23:29 KiloByte: just remove it 06:31:05 -!- felirx_ is now known as felirx 06:31:06 03by * r58565c56af41 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Reenable old tutorial as a hints mode. 06:31:07 03by * rfe707db904bc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (49 files): Rename old "tutorial" to "hints". 06:36:05 Hm. 06:36:14 Removing it should be fine. 06:36:31 oh, the check, not the old tutorial? 06:38:08 old tutorial should be refactored as by did 06:38:18 and the messages should be refactored also at some point :) 06:40:38 The check 06:40:42 Old tutorial as hints mode == good. 06:57:35 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:58:39 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:55 back 07:14:57 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:19 KiloByte: you can remove the check. It's just there to prevent silly "temples" with very few altars. A fully corrupted altar is cool, of course. 07:18:43 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:54 wb dpeg 07:19:00 dpeg: What do you think of scrabble? 07:19:15 due: huh? 07:19:20 The g ame! 07:19:24 03dpeg * re43608c7d359 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (backgrounds.txt species.txt): Minor changes to background and species descriptions. 07:19:32 Is that a synonym for "to have sex with sb."? :P 07:19:36 by: game is gone 07:20:04 Noo? 07:20:14 +Berserkers believe in Trog, the magic-hating god of frenzy. Not much can stop ca raging berserker early on, apart from hubris. 07:20:23 "ca raging"? Extra "C"? 07:20:28 Or is it a couraging? 07:20:31 ah, blammo 07:20:46 stop _a_ raging... 07:20:56 ;) 07:21:14 any other comments, while my emacs is open? 07:21:33 I tried to hint that some backgrounds are rather easy to get going (Be and VM). 07:21:44 A lot of gender-specific terms but I'm not sure that we care. 07:21:55 Bird-men and half fish, half man. 07:22:54 I personally reject the idea of "men" being purely gendered but anyway. 07:23:17 Bird-men could stay, but half fish, half human? 07:29:38 due: okay 07:31:41 03dpeg * r4ff376f5a74b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (backgrounds.txt species.txt): More minor tweaks to species and background descriptions. 07:36:10 Okay, goodnight! 07:37:25 nights, due! 07:42:48 03kilobyte * r5dc19778d95b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (effects.cc items.cc items.h mon-cast.cc): Make Khufu's tomb shift items to the inside. 07:42:49 03kilobyte * rb5eda56fb8cc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des: An Ecumenical Temple of Lugonu. 07:42:51 03kilobyte * rc88ecce6d9c8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_all.txt: No amulets of Faith {rCorr EV+4 Dex+4}, please. 07:42:52 03kilobyte * r9442980b8255 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: A couple of vaults. 08:05:32 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:10 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:45 -!- by has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:15 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:06 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:26 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:22 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 09:09:39 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:16 Morning 09:22:49 by, if you're interested, this is the pseudo-finished player_aux_unarmed. Have some cleaning and simplification to do, but the core logic is done : http://pastie.org/939159 09:54:44 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:07 I think http://sprunge.us/jfQc would be a better approach 10:05:03 that would move your array minus the conditions into a function, but keep the selection logic closer to the way it is at the moment 10:05:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:26 some of the conditions (e.g. the shield vs punch) could probably move into the base attack choice; also it would be nice to replace the base attack choice by an explicit weighted choice 10:07:26 obviously, the auxiliary functions could be methods of melee_attack if that works better 10:15:54 Alrighty. Time to check whether the server-side repo copies need packing. :3 10:18:36 Oh boy. They definitely do. >.> 10:19:51 Cryp71c: my prematurely departed DS (CDO issue!) got nightstalker + antenna. A killer combination! But there seems to be a bug with LOS: I'd get black spots on (visible parts of) the map, causing trouble with autoexplore. Have you seen something like this? 10:24:03 dpeg, I have and need to take a look into it. specifically I need to test to see if the mechanics behind detect creatures spell causes this, since antennae uses a near-duplicate of it. 10:26:03 03dolorous * r56b05a520dc0 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Clarify the messages when herbivores try to eat meat. 10:26:53 by, thanks for your suggestions, I'll definitely use some of them. I don't want to over-functionalize the code though, especially if those functions aren't going to be called elsewhere, or multiple times in the same line of code 10:27:14 s/in the same line of code/elsewhere 10:27:58 by, the biggest thing is that I'm unsure as to what this does: unwind_var save_brand(damage_brand) 10:28:23 as near as I could tell, it does something to store the current value of damage_brand, or the like? Any idea on its purpose? 10:32:35 when save_brand goes out of scope, it restores damage_brand to the value it had before 10:33:35 well, when the value that save_brand returns goes out of scope 10:33:39 a static function that isn't called from anywhere else doesn't cost anything, and it gives code a name 10:34:59 save_brand there is the name of an instance of unwind_var, no? 10:38:43 oh, it looked like that was a function definition 10:38:50 c++ is really really dumb in that way 10:38:56 yes 10:40:27 and then "unwind_var save_brand(damage_brand);" isn't even necessarily equivalent to "unwind_var save_brand = unwind_var(damage_brand);" 10:40:36 probably it's not, actually... 10:40:50 (I'm very unsure, however) 10:41:39 i'm very happy to not be writing c++ anymore 10:41:40 (: 10:44:01 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:37 03j-p-e-g * r447c38be9858 10/crawl-ref/source/ (21 files in 4 dirs): Add spectral monster tiles based on Porkchop's designs. Thanks! 10:52:54 deformity mutation is not intuitive (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1444) by Ryak 11:00:44 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:01:00 doy: Hi! 11:08:32 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:42 03dolorous * ra9b2c15a405c 10/crawl-ref/source/spells3.cc: Fix Mantis 1424. 11:29:57 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:02 Finally it's done. 12:01:26 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:02:38 -!- pineappl1 is now known as pineapple 12:04:34 felirx: school? 12:05:22 nah, this assignment thingy 12:07:53 03dolorous * r1389ebf59db1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Add spacing fixes. 12:19:12 time to convert the item options 12:19:26 felirx: :) 12:19:26 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:19:31 !messages 12:19:31 (1/2) rkd said (34m 26s ago): If you haven't could you please take a look at my god suggestion? Could also be made into a god for monks basically just changing the names of some abilities and little flavor. https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:other#narcissus 12:19:41 !messages 12:19:41 (1/1) rkd said (33m 30s ago): Strike a pose could be "prayer" and self worship could be "meditation", and create mirror could be removed for example. 12:19:51 rkd: will do 12:21:30 coolio 12:39:46 03felirx * raa47fd81c484 10/crawl-ref/source/tiledoll.cc: Fix compile for Windows Tiles 12:40:05 seems to work 12:43:41 doy? 12:54:09 neunon? 13:15:58 -!- Smee has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:21:56 Should the weapon/book etc menus have tiles next to the choice? 13:22:05 or just the same style as the char/back 13:26:34 -!- Xbr has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:10 -!- Xbr is now known as Xiberia 13:31:22 felirx: Thanks :D 13:31:41 mm? 13:31:56 did I conflict you again :) 13:32:50 haha nah 13:32:54 in fact, can you commit a patch for me? 13:33:05 ya know, take a look at it first, but it's pretty tiny 13:33:06 :) 13:33:19 busy! 13:33:25 felirx: I meant thanks for fixing windows tiles 13:33:26 :D 13:33:29 does the keyboard work now? 13:33:32 nah 13:33:36 it just compiles right now 13:33:49 k 13:33:50 well 13:33:52 http://crawl.pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SmDGwphJ 13:33:54 whenever you want 13:33:59 been trying to find someone to apply it 13:34:31 it just makes WindowManager creation/shutdown work the same way as GLManager 13:34:42 So the tiles code isn't responsible for calling new and delete. 13:34:45 Since that's ugly. 14:27:53 -!- MarvinPA-2 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:01 Should I unify the keys used in all the species/back/book/weap/tool menus? 14:29:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:29:20 felirx: that would be good? 14:29:28 felirx: are you open for some talk about the starting screen? 14:29:39 of course 14:30:20 Right now, for instance in the weapon choice, Enter picks the old choice or something 14:30:28 which obviously won't work after reform 14:30:34 (1) I suggest that for species/background, the cursor keys work differently: don't ever touch the lower part (random choices etc.). Make down go from the last entry of a column to the first one of the next. 14:30:45 reform? 14:30:57 allow selection by arrows/mouse 14:31:13 there can still be a default, just as for species? 14:31:38 it would work the same as the other menus 14:31:52 if you don't have it set in settings but have old choice ,old choice would be the active one 14:31:53 (2) In console, the highlighting for unviable species is unreadable (i.e. black on black). May I keep suggesting the old bars? 14:32:18 linux/mac highlight is broken for whatever the reason. 14:32:20 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as MarvinPA 14:32:28 dpeg: Bars? 14:32:37 http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/windows.png 14:32:45 that's how it's supposed to look and looks like in windows 14:33:22 Interesting. No bars in console (CDO). 14:33:28 Let me compile here. 14:33:34 http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/win_ubuntu.png 14:33:44 that's how it looks in my machine, win7 vs ubuntu in vm 14:34:28 Yes, my one looks like the lower screen. Is it possible to get bars there as well? 14:34:43 they should be there, just haven't had time yet to investigate why 14:34:59 something weird is happening on linux/mac with textcolor calls 14:35:25 iirc by or due did some tests and found it's a bitshifting thingy 14:35:34 wow 14:35:47 the linux textcolor implementation is completely insane 14:35:49 so that takes care of (2) 14:35:52 felirx: ideally, the various choice menus would share more code than they do currently 14:36:09 the Crawl graphical output code is and always has been native to DOS 14:36:20 we have conio.h emulation layers for Linux/Mac and Windows 14:37:22 and textcolor should handle both foreground and background, with background shifted by 4? 14:40:46 The (1) is a bit icky if you still want the special entries to be clickable. 14:41:10 felirx: hm, I've only been thinking about console, of course. 14:42:08 it should definetely know how to jump from last item on a "column" to the next one 14:42:13 felirx: it seems conio defines textbackground also, so maybe libw32c.cc does need a textbackground implementation 14:42:37 but the data is not saved in column form so it will need a small algorithm to work 14:43:11 the lack of textbackground() implementation in libw32c.cc was the only reason I was forced to do it via the bitshiffting way :( 14:43:45 Do tiles fonts even support background colour? 14:47:15 felirx: look at the libw32c.cc textcolor implementation; it should be straightforward to set the high part of curent_color from textbackground 14:48:22 I'll look around after I convert the weapon choice menu 14:58:26 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:23 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:03 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:54 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:42:18 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:07 03j-p-e-g * r5c393bc87eb3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc command.h dat/database/help.txt items.cc menu.cc): Add a help screen to the drop/pickup menus. 15:52:26 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:52:33 yay 15:57:41 dpeg: something along the line of http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/weapon_console.png 15:58:13 felirx: yes! 15:58:37 the item placement and texts are a bit... unrefined atm 15:58:47 the menu items are not rendering on tiles for whatever the reason :( 15:59:47 felirx: yes, don't worry about that too much. 16:03:17 the idea is that it would use the same control scheme as the othre menus 16:03:55 either + or #, nut sure which for random good choice, * or ! for a true random choice, tab for old choice 16:05:22 felirx: I agree. 16:06:03 I doubt we need description entries for these items? 16:06:18 + for viable, * for random 16:06:35 the other two are for completely random characters 16:07:04 which is what I have right now :) 16:14:27 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:07:43 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:05 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:14 -!- due has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:46 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:15 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:09:34 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:10 Blink can land in a tele trap? 17:12:15 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:32 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:18 hellooo 18:18:21 Hi 18:30:28 Yawn 18:50:53 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:01:55 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:03:44 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:05:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:05 -!- due has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:05 -!- Mu_ has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:06 -!- violetj has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:06 -!- KiloByte has quit [*.net *.split] 19:11:14 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:21 -!- KiloByte has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:18 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:18 -!- violetj has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:25 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:11 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:15:12 -!- st_ has quit [] 20:19:33 -!- st has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:26 -!- st is now known as st_ 20:51:04 skeleton tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1445) by Denzi 20:51:17 Yay, more Denzi art. :) 20:51:17 Enne: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:51:20 !messages 20:51:20 (1/2) ixtli said (2d 18h 59m 54s ago): Could you check out this tiny change? I don't know why this is a struct but it's designed to be a union. It seems to work fine on OS X http://crawl.pastebin.com/vUe6NALC 20:51:24 such interesting english 20:51:53 !messages 20:51:53 (1/1) ixtli said (2d 8h 30m 58s ago): Forgot to do this before you committed my changes: http://crawl.pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SmDGwphJ 20:53:15 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:28 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 21:15:12 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:10 -!- KiloByte has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25:15 -!- KiloByte has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:38 -!- KiloByte has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:44 -!- KiloByte has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:50 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:14 -!- Abuse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:21 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:11 Hi 23:18:17 Enne! :) 23:18:22 Hey, due. :) 23:18:36 Tiles are looking good1 23:19:04 <3 Denzi contributing art. 23:19:11 Yes. <333 23:24:13 OMG, Denzi is finished skeleton tiles already? 23:24:16 That is... wow. 23:24:20 I know, right? 23:24:32 oh MAN 23:24:50 Those are *amazing*. 23:25:06 Like, absolutely amazing. 23:26:00 That dagon skeleton is so good. 23:26:09 YES. 23:26:27 Can we swap that for bone dragon and use the current bone dragon for dragon skeleton? 23:27:09 I am so ecstatic that Denzi is contributing again. It just makes me grin like an idea 23:27:13 *idiot. 23:27:15 I need to get on sending Denzi a list of abilities, so we can have a gui for that. 23:27:44 Does that include god abilities/ 23:27:58 Sure! 23:31:53 Isn't that in an enum or something? 23:33:07 Probably. :P 23:41:03 Morning :D 23:41:17 Hey, ixtli. :) 23:41:21 Enne: ! 23:41:35 Hows stuff? 23:42:27 Still a little busy. :P 23:42:40 I was happy to at least be able to commit the ipad changes. 23:42:57 The triangle changes are looking good. 23:43:11 I think I'm most happy with those. 23:43:39 Ok. I'll take a look Saturday and see about committing them. 23:43:41 :) 23:44:11 No rush :) 23:44:20 Also I <3 denzi. 23:44:27 Does he do stuff for any other games? 23:44:50 (What pronoun does Denzi prefer? I've been avoiding them so far.) 23:45:06 ixtli: I'm pretty sure DEnzi has done artwork for Slash'em. 23:46:19 So something about the nic strikes me as male. Like a masculine noun in european romance languages. 23:46:47 (due: I have no idea! Maybe I should have asked by now.) 23:47:30 Now that's an interesting question! What about gendered language? Japanese specifically uses different forms of verb conjugation and noun prefixes depending on the "gender" of the speaker. 23:47:36 Oops, that was supposed to be ##c-ot-gender. 23:48:13 really? 23:48:48 "mizu" and "omizu" both mean water, at least when I learnt it. You used "mizu" if you were male, "omizu" otherwise. 23:49:03 Eh. 23:49:07 Not... entirely correct. 23:49:18 It's not gendered, its got to do with the status of the speaker. 23:49:21 That's an entirely secondary effect 23:49:22 Ah. 23:49:32 I forgot ixtli is in Japan! 23:49:37 The lower your position on the social ladder, the more 'o's you have to sprinkle 23:49:40 It's about the fact that women are expected to be polite all the time :) 23:49:44 sorear: Indeed :D 23:49:47 Interesting. 23:50:18 It's not really more significant than 'sir' and whatnot 23:50:35 I sucked at Japanese. :) 23:50:36 except that the Japanese like to attach their honor tokens to random unrelated words 23:53:29 They believe they're related. I'm not 100% sure how, though; I've been told by restaurant staff that I've asked that as the customer it's more natural for me to say 'ohia' (ice water) than 'hia.' 23:54:00 So the Japanese like to correct people's use of the language? 23:54:27 Not at all. 23:54:31 You have to force it out of them. 23:54:34 "that I've asked" 23:54:42 I asked this guy because he looked specifically impolite and pissed off. 23:54:54 doy: missed that 23:54:58 My favorite Japanese people are those who make faces when you say something dumb.