00:05:17 Sublimation of blood description doesn't always apply (I think?!) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1373) by MrMisterMonkey 01:21:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:14 -!- stabwound has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:28:15 -!- stabwound- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:12 -!- stabwound- is now known as stabwound 02:12:42 -!- roca has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:49 -!- roca is now known as Eifeltrampel 02:14:17 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [Client Quit] 02:15:00 -!- f1ck3n has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:52 -!- f1ck3n has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:22:58 -!- roca has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:22 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:44 -!- Eronarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:56 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:12 -!- Gretell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:44:12 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:44:12 -!- roca has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44:12 -!- roca has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:39 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:42 napking! 02:49:50 napking, gretell went :( 02:53:35 dungeon sprint is great 02:53:54 I die as often as in crawl but it takes only 2 minutes instead of 45 :-) 02:55:38 restarting, 1s 02:55:45 Napkin: Can you remind me how to resurrect? 02:55:58 Is it as simple as running gretell.pl? 02:56:31 no 02:56:35 screen -x first 02:56:40 kill the old, start a new :) 02:57:01 okay :) 02:57:14 -!- Eronarn_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:20 You on it? Or shall I? 02:59:09 could you? 02:59:17 I got a bit busy suddenly here :D 02:59:37 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:45 Hi baby <3 03:00:54 -!- Eronarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:54 -!- Eronarn_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:41 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:44 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:54 hi 03:21:57 felirx: did you find the line breaking stuff yet? 03:23:27 there's stuff in menu.{h,cc} (linebreak_string2, etc) 03:44:24 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:44 cheers 03:45:49 heya 03:53:44 hoia 03:53:56 dpeg: have you seen the license thread in rgrd? 03:54:04 another example of developer fear 03:55:34 bhaak: yes, it is disgusting. 03:55:48 the discussion, not so much the fear 03:56:36 * due doesn't read rgrd. 03:57:05 The discussion about cardinal vs omni targeting was much more interesting to me. 03:57:08 I'm a little bit shocked about the ignorance about the subject of some people 03:58:45 Here I am! 03:58:56 Fuck the license. 03:59:56 bhaak: Have you seen the Crawl license model? 03:59:58 of course even worse than having the wrong opinion is spreading wrong facts :) 04:00:13 bhaak: which I can't, for utter lack of knowledge. 04:00:16 sorear: yepp, it's s/NetHack/Crawl/ 04:00:39 Hey, I could post "Using GPL will get you syphilis." :) 04:00:52 But that's already Krice's domain. 04:01:05 dpeg: knowing that you don't know anything is already something :-) 04:01:09 "Using GPL turns you into a nazi!" 04:01:32 s/nazi/hippie/ look at stallman! 04:01:32 Then you invoke Godwin's law! 04:01:34 GPL nazis vs CC nazis! 04:01:50 bhaak: I have hippie Stallman with katanas xkcd button on my bag <3 04:02:20 I cannot read this legalese bullshit without building up hate, though. It's a sad world where so much energy is spent on matters like these. Should axe some lawyers today. 04:02:27 I've seen stallman in person. If he'd approach me with a katana, I would run, too! 04:02:35 bhaak: not quite... the Crawl license also forbids charging money for anything other than distribution and warranty protection... 04:02:36 xkcd? 04:02:47 dpeg: ... you don't know xkcd? 04:02:53 No! 04:02:53 bhaak: then, we mix in third party GPL code and put the whole thing in debian main! 04:02:56 I... what... I... no! what? 04:02:57 sorear: yes, it is the old nethack license. 04:03:05 nooo, david :(! 04:03:19 due: don't whine, tell me :) 04:03:29 Hang on, let me find something mathematical that you may appreciate. 04:03:51 http://xkcd.com/723/ 04:03:54 would someone give me ops? I need to kick dpeg before he finds out about xkcd 04:04:14 it will destroy your live 04:04:20 sorear: b/c it's so bad, or such an efficient time waster? 04:04:22 ah 04:04:24 dpeg: the latter 04:04:25 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=xkcd 04:05:06 No "social" "networks" for me, no webcomics, no licenses. I am a happy man :) 04:05:18 dpeg: It is brilliant though. 04:05:30 The real question is: Jiyva -- now or later? 04:05:31 how can a webcomic be an efficient time waster? 04:05:47 by: didn't know it was a webcomic when I asked. 04:05:48 sorear: I have a red spiders mouse pad at work 04:06:05 dpeg: no, but sorear said that it was true 04:06:35 by: I think it's efficient if you lose time without noticiing. 04:09:25 time *waster*? if you enjoy reading a panel for 5 minutes you think it's a time *waster*? 04:09:54 http://xkcd.com/482/ 04:10:21 Five minutes which could have been used to bash some lawyer's head in. So yes, time waster. 04:10:23 bhaak: I have that poster. :) 04:10:51 "Open the fridge door, hal." 04:11:37 due: how high is it? does it fit on a standard 7-story building? :) 04:11:47 bhaak: No, but it's half the size of my bookcase. 04:11:55 It was smaller than iexpected :( 04:13:35 dpeg: the whole legalese is actually not that hard, in principle. problem is when people start to drive it to the edge, finding loopholes, suing people for wrong reasons, (summum ius, summa iniuria) ... it is quite like really bad spaghetti code programming 04:14:18 the other problem is the high number of idiots in any license discussion 04:14:59 by: +1. 04:15:10 Or -10e300, your choice. 04:15:13 by: does this include lawyers and judgesß 04:15:51 most license discussions don't seem to have lawyers or judges involved 04:16:38 the good things about lawyers is that they won't say anything about legal things they know nothing about. in that case they only say "I'll have to research that" 04:18:43 Lawyers fear to tread, where fools rush in? 04:20:34 lawyers are smart, they don't engage in mass guessing 04:20:47 lawyers know how easily one gets sued :) 04:25:57 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:06 muuu 04:26:18 duuey 04:54:15 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:17 sorear, kilobyte (or anyone else interested in the code): do you think the randomvar branch's approach to getting at weapon delay expected value is sensible? 05:42:21 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:10 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:41 -!- roca has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:09:48 OK, just installed msysGit in order to build Crawl on Windows and was working through Crawl's docs/develop/git/quickstart.txt 06:09:53 Is it normal that some commands don't work under msysGit? 06:09:58 E.g. 'git status' or 'git diff' give "fatal: chdir in start_command() not implemented". 06:10:13 no, they should work. 06:10:56 :-/ 06:10:59 OK, thanks. 06:11:27 I hope it's OK to post general build-related questions on ##crawl-dev. 06:33:18 did you install via msysgits netinstall? 06:34:54 Yep. 06:35:23 and you're in the msys promt rigth? 06:35:36 msysGit-netinstall-1.7.0.2-preview20100407-2.exe 06:35:40 Yes. 06:36:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/144654 06:39:49 I see. Should I just use an older version, then? Or hope for a quick fix? 06:41:26 I would at least try an order version 06:42:10 OK, will do that. Thanks. 06:42:20 BTW how did you find that link? Google didn't turn up anything useful for me. 06:43:11 just google with the error message 06:46:25 Huh? 06:46:44 Ah, OK, I always included "msysgit" with queries. 06:46:47 :-P 07:01:28 -!- Horst has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:10 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:10 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 07:39:34 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:19 03dolorous * r78f7c341f6ea 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix comment again. 08:20:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:21:32 Crash when accessing in-game help (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1374) by dolorous 08:24:13 -!- stabwound has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:24:14 -!- stabwound- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:11 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:30 -!- sorear_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:53 -!- CIA-58 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:58 -!- sorear has quit [*.net *.split] 08:32:58 -!- CIA-22 has quit [*.net *.split] 08:39:06 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:16 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:39:17 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:06 -!- Anym has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 08:46:40 Consistent status for abominations (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=55) by Eronarn 09:04:07 !seen neunon 09:04:07 I last saw neunon at Mon Apr 12 02:17:13 2010 UTC (4d 11h 46m 54s ago) quitting with message Read error: Connection reset by peer. 09:09:55 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:58 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:19 Morning 09:16:34 Hey Cryp71c. 09:51:44 -!- shockwave has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:31 03Keskitalo * r19cef96b1204 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Some overflow altars for Vehumet and Okawaru. 10:22:01 -!- elly has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 10:25:04 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:14 -!- Horst has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:28:30 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:39 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:02 -!- hotsun has left ##crawl-dev 10:48:54 03dolorous * r7f00245ccc91 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Improve the description of white imps. 11:02:06 03rburnham * r3ea522252d67 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Add entry for antennae so it properly displays on overview 11:02:08 03dolorous * r595251d88de7 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Tweak the mutation display in the output screen. 11:33:09 antennae! <3 11:44:39 Eronarn, :P 11:46:01 I think I will start actually playing Crawl again in a month or two. 11:51:00 hmm, Eyjafjallajökull is a decent-sounding word 11:51:10 it's the name of the volcano that made it impossible to fly into or out of the UK recently 11:51:24 and IIRC dpeg was looking for codename inspiration for 0.7 11:52:30 oh yeah, great idea. taking the code name of something that disrupts europe like a crawl does :) 11:54:11 more like impossible to fly into or out of entire northern europe 11:54:52 who care's about europe if you're in uk ;-) 11:56:01 03dolorous * r8986c9758605 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h tilepick.cc): Comment fixes. 11:56:20 bhaak: it mostly disrupted the UK specifically, which happened to be downwind at the time 11:56:26 mainland europe wasn't hit as badly IIRC 11:57:15 now, they are 11:57:21 ah, ok 11:58:04 in Germany, there's only the airport of Munich that's open, 60% of all flights have been cancelled 11:58:20 bhaak: compare this to the UK, where 100% of flights were cancelled 11:58:52 100% of flights in scandinavia are cancelled and most of the airports in france as well 11:59:01 oh, and I just read, that Munich closes on 20:00 :) 11:59:29 northern europe closed down 12:00:00 ais523: http://i43.tinypic.com/2elyw08.png 12:00:21 wow, that's an impressive pic 12:03:40 03dolorous * r8ae7cc046540 10/crawl-ref/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Per evktalo's suggestion, move demonic crawlers from '3' to 's'. 12:04:10 Keskitalo: what's ^^ about? 12:07:52 @?? demonic crawler 12:07:53 demonic crawler (033) | Speed: 9 | HD: 9 | Health: 27-72 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Damage: 13, 13, 13 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible | Res: 06magic(72), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 238. 12:08:21 huh, moving demons out of the #s? any reason why? 12:08:23 doesn't really make sense to me 12:09:14 yeah, i don't think we're really gaining anything by moving demons out of the normal "demon" glyphs 12:10:08 i think it's actually a bad move rather than a neutral one 12:10:26 we should look at what counts as a demon in the first place before moving any more stuff out of demons 12:10:45 (i.e., monstrosities, efreets, hellhounds) 12:11:05 @?? hellhound 12:11:05 unknown monster: "hellhound" 12:11:09 @?? hell hound 12:11:09 hell hound (11h) | Speed: 15 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Damage: 13 | Flags: 05demonic, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 145. 12:13:10 @??iron devil 12:13:10 iron devil (103) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Damage: 14, 14 | Flags: 05demonic | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 323. 12:13:17 @??iron imp 12:13:17 unknown monster: "iron imp" 12:13:32 did i hear wrong about that change? 12:13:42 the bot just doesnt have it 12:13:43 gretell's db probably just hasn't been updated yet 12:13:56 oh, i see 12:14:03 do pit fiend => iron fiend next ;) 12:16:54 what exactly is "Big NO to Diablo-style copy/paste variety." referring to, on https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:demon? 12:17:27 unsure? 12:18:15 the suggestion there was to rename imps to red imps, not to add a new kind of imp 12:18:58 perhaps it's referring to making, for each of fiend, imp, devil/demon, a red/iron/ice/shadow one? 12:19:17 maybe... but those already exist, for the most part 12:19:19 03dolorous * rc884d611d2c4 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Reorder the queen insects in tilepick.cc to account for glyph changes. 12:19:38 and they're actually different things, unlike Diablo 12:19:44 where they were just tougher reskins 12:19:50 I never played diablo 12:20:05 familiar with the idea of a palette swap? 12:20:22 well.. not per se, but I think I can imagine what kind of 'variety' is meant there 12:20:44 it means using even the same graphics, but just substituting colors :) 12:20:48 anyway, I think that renaming normal imps to red imps is not really needed. For one thing, they are already red. 12:21:24 oh, it's hardly necessary. just, i am in favor of it for the same reason i am in favor of 'dragon' => 'fire dragon'; don't like broken symmetry/patterns for no reason than 'it's always been that way' 12:21:44 and it's not like demons are employed in hells based on the colors in their names and how nicely said elements of the name align with other demons. 12:22:33 yes, pattern is good, but sometimes it just gets boring. 12:22:58 foo dragon is one thing, but having a horde of different demons with the same prefix in the name is another 12:23:16 -!- pineapple has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:24 (okay, it's mostly noticeable in Dis, where everything is iron) 12:23:39 Zaba: well, they don't have to be the same prefix 12:23:47 red, crimson, fire, smoke, ash, etc. 12:23:56 but i think some kind of theme is good 12:23:58 Dis has just 'iron' :> 12:24:16 yes, could also have: steel, rust, chrome, shard 12:24:20 tartarus mostly has 'shadow' 12:24:52 tartarus can get shadow, bone, inky, lurking 12:24:58 lots of neat, unused words out there 12:25:09 lurking imp.. hmmmm... 12:26:28 'lurking murk', new shadow-y/darkness-y monster :) 12:27:04 speaking of the proposed 'spirit' category: I am not entirely sure I understand how they are different from demonic. 12:27:13 03dolorous * rb7d1ac8476cf 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-corpse.txt dc-mon.txt): Update various tile lists to account for queen insect glyph changes. 12:27:17 03dolorous * rf7e7302889f5 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-corpse.txt dc-mon.txt): Add comment fixes. 12:27:18 03dolorous * r92569a54a724 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon.txt: Move demonic crawlers into the 's' section in the tile list. 12:29:12 Zaba: spirit would be a new flag for creatures that are, well, spirits. spirit is neutral in the same way that both demons and holy can have whatever intelligence value 12:29:54 evil flag is used for things that aren't 'supernatural', but are just evil (like necromancers) 12:30:12 well, yes, but how is it different from 'demonic' with regard to gameplay? 12:30:52 I expect TSO wouldn't have an inherent hatred of spirits, for one 12:31:06 are spirits undead? 12:31:07 Zaba: the vast majority of 'affects demons' things would affect evil+spirit creatures. but also some could affect only demons and not evil spirits. and some things could affect any spirits, including non-evil ones, or even holy ones. 12:31:30 doy: one open question would be whether to make various ghostly undead count as spirits 12:31:30 the vast majority of effects being shared is what bothers me the most 12:31:52 Zaba: that's in an interest to not upset the game balance too much, for older content 12:32:12 it would be a neat feature for new content, but i wouldn't want to change things too fundamentally at first 12:32:51 the primary purpose of this is, make clear that things like efreets or hellhounds are different from 12345s 12:33:11 and later we can take that in whatever direction 12:33:40 hm. 12:33:59 Eronarn, perhaps you should write that as a reason on the wiki page? :> 12:34:07 sure, i will go expand it a bit 12:34:31 right now, it has got a few literally open questions. 12:38:36 yes, it's one of the pages where i started and then got real-life-busy so stopped entirely 12:38:42 hm.. I have never read the description of a demonic crawler.. seems to fit into 's', indeed, just as well as hell hounds fit in 'h'. 12:38:56 'but how well do hell hounds fit in 'h'' 12:39:21 who cares, if they have been in 'h' for an eternity, as far as most people are concerned? ;p 12:39:47 new players don't know much about 'eternity' 12:40:20 yes, as far as most people are concerned, 'for an eternity' would refer to 'since I have started playing' 12:41:48 Zaba: 'it has always been this way' is not an answer afaic 12:42:02 well... if one considers hell hounds demons, they fit in 'h' just as well as a humanoid demon would fit in '@'. 12:43:25 it ultimately depends on what criteria you use when picking the glyph.. 12:43:54 Zaba: right, but we are not being consistent here - for example, smoke demons appear as a cloud of smoke but aren't # 12:44:04 given the wide variety of appearances that demons can have 12:44:09 indeed, demons are 12345& merely because they are demons. 12:44:11 i think it is better we stick to &12345 12:44:25 as for humanoid demons - 6 is for demonspawn, don't you know? ;) 12:44:29 whereas, say, 'h' is 'canines'---that's biolological. 12:45:01 yes, and the primary gameplay effect of a hellhound is those that apply to demons IMO :) 12:45:09 '4' conveys much more information than 'h' 12:45:14 's' is 'crawling insects' or somesuch, which is even more biology. 12:46:55 Eronarn, so, one can give consistent glyphs, or glyphs that convey the most useful information? 12:47:07 Zaba: 'both' 12:47:26 well, in case of hell hounds, what glyph would fit for both? 12:47:43 because they *are* canines, thus, for consistency, should be 'h' ;p 12:47:50 if demons are consistently &12345, this conveys the most useful information - it gives an estimate of toughness, and tells that they're demons, which says a LOT about their stats 12:47:53 well 12:48:01 'canine' doesn't really have a meaning 12:48:05 in crawl 12:48:08 'demon' does 12:48:08 doy: canine familiar ;) 12:48:16 Eronarn: can it summon hell hounds? 12:48:29 no! but there are other h it can't summon. and maybe it should? 12:48:40 @??hell hog 12:48:40 hell hog (04h) | Speed: 14 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 05demonic | Res: 06magic(44) | XP: 981 | Sp: sticky flame splash. 12:48:51 hogs aren't canines, but are 'h'. 12:48:58 that'd be an interesting perk: if you have a demon-summoning spell memorized, canine familiar calls hellhounds instead of normal hounds. 12:48:58 * Zaba ponders 12:50:42 for me it comes down to this: if it's a demon, it should use a demon glyph, and we should make as few exceptions as possible (the only one i think is OK is antaeus) 12:50:58 and even then he could really be a & if we wanted him to be 12:51:17 @?antaeus 12:51:17 Antaeus (11C) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 22 | Health: 700 | AC/EV: 28/4 | Damage: 7512(cold), 3012(cold) | Flags: 05demonic, amphibious | Res: 06magic(264), 02cold++, 10elec++ | Vul: 04fire | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.cold, b.lightning. 12:51:23 didn't he use to be non-demonic? 12:51:31 believe so 12:52:47 he was made demonic because demonic == torment-resistant, i believe 12:53:30 i seem to recall that being the case, yes 12:58:22 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:26 Is amulet of clarity not supposed to prevent confusion from crystal ball of energy? 13:07:40 It doesn't seem to be stopping it... 13:08:15 no 13:08:18 as in 13:08:22 yes, it's not supposed to 13:10:10 damn, thanks 13:10:22 Do you know why? 13:10:41 it's to get you confused 13:11:24 because it's a very powerful item that needs drawbacks 13:13:24 fair enough, I just wish it was a little clearer ingame 13:18:36 -!- Napkin has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:46 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:10 -!- Napkin has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:32 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:34 -!- Napkin has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:10 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:51 mmmm, wierd, getting a build error on this new linux setup, lots of errors in libunix.cc, starting with a missing include, curses.h ? 13:43:09 should probably install ncurses 13:43:35 libncurses-dev to be precise (Debianish systems) 13:43:49 or whatever contains the ncurses headers if you're on a different sort of linux system 13:46:00 thanks 13:46:14 just formatted, last system came with those already installed for m 13:46:15 me* 14:01:39 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:07 morning all 14:18:16 dis_mu statues come to life, even if they've been destroyed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1375) by Mu 14:21:14 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:23 -!- sorear_ is now known as sorear 14:29:49 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:27 by_: Remind me, what's the command to switch to a non-local branch? 14:33:58 with a recent enough git, "git checkout " should just work 14:34:41 worked, thanks 14:36:57 by_: Looks reasonable to me 14:40:24 sorear: thanks! 14:40:47 -!- by_ is now known as by 14:41:00 The only caveat is that I'd look into the possibility of simplying the formulas so that random_var isn't needed at all 14:41:09 c.f. what I did with shield blocking 14:41:26 yes, I really didn't want to work on the formulas 14:41:33 yes 14:58:27 Fail to load buggy ghost (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1376) by qui 15:35:11 -!- shockwave has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]] 15:40:43 -!- stabwound- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:55:38 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:19 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:47 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:37 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:46 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:56 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:11 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:10 Statue god brainstorming (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1377) by rkd 17:16:07 FR: *random noun* god 17:17:43 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:06 -!- Smee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:22 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 17:31:59 any thoughts on making a) the stairs in Hell behave just like normal stairs do and b) always generating a new level upon re-entry, the bottom level aside 17:33:01 the current behavior makes it trivial to escape while not really making you lose any progress by doing so 17:33:19 syllogism: i proposed that the up stairs be portals back to the vestibule somewhere on mantis 17:33:23 dpeg had a reply 17:33:24 i forget what it was 17:33:46 isn't that the current behaviour 17:33:51 basically 17:34:01 yes, but in a way that actually makes sense 17:34:08 hey, infinite hells 17:34:16 sure, but it wouldn't change anything 17:34:16 not a fan of infinite hells 17:34:25 we already have pan for that 17:35:02 I suppose you don't necessarily have to randomize the levels as just changing the stair behaviour would help somewhat 17:35:05 misremebered, i thought he gave more than a one-line comment about it 17:35:24 though I do like that idea as well 17:35:25 syllogism: stairs could appear somewhere different every time you go down 17:35:28 but level be the same 17:35:41 or 17:35:48 just make hell only have escape hatches 17:35:59 aren't they static 17:36:03 hmmm, although i guess escape hatches have - yeah 17:36:15 randomized escape hatches then 17:36:21 for going down 17:36:27 and portals back to the vestibule 17:36:54 or shafts 17:36:57 that could be fun 17:36:57 (: 17:42:19 i think hell would benefit a lot from different mapgen 17:42:23 something cave-y/tunnel-y 17:42:51 yes 17:43:03 except for dis, of.c (though it could use a bit of tweaking to make it somewhat more unique, perhaps) 17:43:13 but the other ones are downright bland 17:43:15 yeah, dis is fine 17:43:34 tar does seem to try to be more tunnel-y, although it doesn't work all that well 17:43:58 also, i could just be making that up 17:44:25 doy: imo, dis should have some boxes be sealed shut, with arrow slits, with archers with steel arrows :) 17:44:28 guard towers! 17:44:31 (: 17:44:33 that would be cool 17:45:17 i wonder what a good type of archer demon would be... an existing one with a bow, or a new one, or a human/demonspawn instead 17:45:38 D&D has ones that have two sets of arms and two bows 17:46:50 @??iron demon 17:46:50 unknown monster: "iron demon" 17:46:52 @??iron devil 17:46:52 iron devil (103) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Damage: 14, 14 | Flags: 05demonic | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 323. 17:46:58 those are pretty boring 17:47:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:47:59 how about an iron-based demon that rips chunks of itself off to shoot as steel bolts/arrows 17:48:15 loses maxhp for each one it shoots 17:48:36 hmm... i like the idea, but it seems a bad idea for a stationary monster to place at a guardpost 17:48:44 did you read the sword horror idea? 17:48:48 nope 17:49:34 it's a demon (or other kind of evil spirit); big cloud of dancing swords; spawns dancing weapons, losing maxHP; the center of it is something like an ego or randart demonblade 17:49:46 can reanimate dropped weapons, too 17:49:55 hmmm, interesting 17:50:46 it might be too brutal for crawl though. even after the debuff, dancing weapons are seriously dangerous even to many high level characters 17:51:10 but then again, we could use more monsters that are hard for reasons that aren't 'has all resists ever + gobs of HP + summons demons' 17:54:22 Animated weapons of venom should take damage from ignite poison (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1378) by MrMisterMonkey 17:55:08 or turn into flaming weapons :P 17:57:13 should turn into flaming. fire doesn't hurt them 17:57:15 @??dancing weapon 17:57:16 dancing weapon (10() | Speed: 12-19 | HD: 15 | Health: 16-54 | AC/EV: 12/17 | Damage: 12 | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison++ | XP: 1130. 17:57:36 I nerfed that 17:57:37 sorry 17:57:41 heh 17:58:14 weapons of flaming should at least have fire+++ 17:59:11 doy: i'd be wary of doing that because then you get into things like, why aren't dancing clubs rF- 18:06:25 -!- eith__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:36 -!- |eith| has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:05 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:09:15 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:20 03dolorous * r85bf996fa597 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h spells1.cc spells3.cc stuff.cc): Change "weird sense of stasis" messages to "strange sense of stasis". 18:34:15 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:38:42 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:13 -!- Smee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:32 03dolorous * r41f27c64fb05 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Per OG17's suggestion, swap attacks of iron imps and lemures. 18:41:33 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:19 ??potion of degeneration 18:43:20 degeneration[1/1]: Drains a random attribute (str, int, dex). By 1d4. Will kill you of {stat drain} if chosen stat is low enough. 18:44:34 -!- Smee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:50 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:30 Mu_: solution is to add veto_shatter="veto" to the statue list of vetoes. 18:48:58 they should prolly remain shatterable tbh though 18:49:23 is there any way to make the golems not spawn if the statue isn't there any more 18:49:46 golems? :o 18:49:58 Too painful, to be honest. 18:50:18 :) 19:01:17 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:36 Yo folks. When Crawl was on sourceforge, was there anything wrong with its SVN support in particular? 19:03:55 It was extremely slow 19:04:13 where by "extremely slow" I mean I would start a command in the background and check on it once an hour 19:04:17 slow transger rates? 19:04:29 *transfer 19:06:26 Or slow processing once it got to the server? Or just high latency? 19:06:32 All of the above. 19:06:39 And sometimes it just didn't work at all. 19:06:46 Well, that's discouraging 19:07:49 sourceforge is horrible as a hosting service of any kind 19:11:23 Are there any alternatives for SVN hosting, besides roll your own? 19:12:37 google code maybe? 19:12:44 03dolorous * r9a325737a326 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Per OG17's suggestion, adjust iron imps' stats. 19:12:49 not sure what all that offers 19:14:54 Alright. Thanks 19:22:29 -!- fhoahf38771 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:30 -!- fhoahf38771 has left ##crawl-dev 19:31:18 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:35:02 are there any specific issues being discussed in here right now? 19:43:51 Not really 19:44:08 -!- eith__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:13 ok... then i'll table something 19:49:25 (and then watch the table be devoured) 19:49:48 * due devours pineapple. 19:50:03 reading through the jelly (as a player race) page, it seems to mention spitting acid a lot 19:50:25 that seems to be too similar to nagas (even though it might be more thematic for them) 19:51:18 it also mentions that they can't use weapons, and can't throw stuff, but can eat everything except stones... 19:51:22 so what if 19:51:25 you can pick up stones 19:51:28 and spit them? 19:51:40 (but can't use any other ranged weapons) 19:52:13 this doesn't sound like a good race at all 19:52:21 ? 19:52:35 maybe as a joke race for that mini-crawl game 19:52:40 sprint? 19:52:57 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:jelly - has a lot of discussion already 19:53:30 equipment IS this game, a race that doesn't use any equipment is just a bad idea ;o 19:53:35 aren't jellies non-sentiant? 19:53:38 that too 19:53:54 Oh god. 19:53:57 sup due 19:54:11 uni and girls and new games oh my 19:54:28 Vandal: Please don't pass judgement on the jelly race, it is near and dear to the hearts of many. 19:54:45 it is a great idea for Sprint, I'll give you that 19:55:04 you could do a lot of silly and ultimately meaningless things in sprint 19:55:11 ... 19:55:30 the rotting in order thing sounds like it would be prone to micromanagement... 19:55:31 but implementing and balancing that kind of thing in Crawl is a total waste of development time when you're also talking about revamping the entire weapon table 19:55:39 Please stop trolling. 19:55:42 Now. 19:55:44 I'm not 19:55:48 I'm stating my opinion 19:56:38 Look at all these shiny new weapon mechanics, and a new race that ignores it completely 19:56:42 this is a good use of time! 19:56:44 There's a difference between "I thin kthat it is is a total waste of time" and "it is a total waste of time". 19:57:21 sorry, due, you know me and my lack of tact :) 19:58:07 Yes. 19:58:11 Hence why I am making a point. 19:58:32 * due goes to have breakfast. 19:59:03 I acknowlege your point of my tactlessness, and hope you also acknowledge my point of encouraging players to ignore the awesome and deep equipment system of Crawl is Not Good 19:59:41 If the equipment system isn't awesome and deep enough for you, it would be much better to spend time making it more awesome and deep than to make a race that ignores it 19:59:50 A lot more races would benefit! 19:59:53 I think you're missing the entire poinnt of it. :) 19:59:57 So moving on. 20:00:09 pineapple: I like stone spitting! Can you add it to the wiki page? 20:00:21 damnit 20:00:33 you know why i mentioned it here first, right? 20:00:40 No? 20:00:56 cos i couldn't be arsed to register on the wiki 20:01:58 :) 20:02:01 * due hugs pineapple. 20:02:06 Remind me in ten and I'll ad it myself. 20:10:52 03dolorous * ra013ee158e8b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: After some thought, increase iron imps' AC from 4 to 5. 20:11:47 that required some thought? 20:13:12 heh 20:13:21 due: adding it myself and extending it a little 20:14:52 doy: "After some thought, revert "after some thought ...""? 20:21:20 hah 20:21:24 due: done 20:36:31 -!- |eith| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:25 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:42 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 23:34:38 night all 23:35:33 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.]