00:02:47 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:15 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:39 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:19 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:56 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:45 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:16 isn't there a message to let you know when you can afford something on your shopping list? 03:21:50 yes 03:21:54 At least, there should be 03:23:11 ah yeah, i see it in the message log, i guess i just didn't notice it at the time 03:23:31 isn't it important enough to be coloured? 03:24:25 Definitely. 03:24:32 What's the message? 03:24:38 You now have enough gold to buy a heavily runed copper ring on D:6. 03:24:38 You can access your shopping list by pressing '$'. 03:25:33 excellent, thanks 03:33:55 I have no idea what channel to use instead 03:34:13 Yellow would be good. 03:35:26 i agree 03:36:12 the only other yellow messages currently in my message log are "xx is moderately damaged" and level annotation notification 03:48:07 level notifications are generally yellow 03:48:14 lab and bazaar messages, for example 03:49:12 What channel do they use? 03:49:21 no idea :P 03:49:46 "sound" 03:59:03 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:21 hi 04:04:54 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:00 is there a wiki page for fighting information yet? 04:15:19 i.e., conveying accuracy, weapon speed, damage etc? 04:15:49 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:07 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:20 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:18:34 dpeg: hi 04:20:18 spells tab should cast on the initial target on second click 04:24:05 Hi 04:24:10 by: thanks for the wiki work. 04:24:18 felirx: yes! 04:24:35 Just keep casting -- autofire :) 04:25:41 Eino just noticed that while playing around the mockup tutorial 04:29:51 felirx: How goes the mockup tuttorial? 04:29:54 felirx: Did my additions help? 04:30:20 of course 04:30:30 Where is the mockup tutorial? 04:30:38 -!- dpeg is now known as mockupdpeg 04:30:38 hidden! 04:30:45 -!- due is now known as mockupdue 04:31:04 * mockupdue not real. 04:31:27 felirx, Keskitalo: It's some time until 0.7 but we do need a cool code word. I am sure there's plenty of choices in Finnish! 04:32:30 Duvessa, clearly. 04:32:52 Duvessa? To show we compete with WoW? :P 04:33:13 No, it means toilet in Finnish. 04:33:21 Seriously? 04:33:23 <3 04:33:42 Apparently, felirx? 04:33:45 Vessa 04:33:46 It has a low count of double letters for a Finnish word, though. 04:33:58 Vessassa 04:34:05 Ahhh 04:34:18 needs more ä 04:34:29 I trust our Finnish comrades to come up with words to scare everybody :) 04:34:55 sorear: if you have a moment, would you mind reading https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:dpeg 04:35:25 sorear: you're acquainted with all of them (the games), so your comments are wel-come! (As are those of anybody else, of course.) 04:35:39 should I open a FR for second click in spell tab or just write it to Tiles Interface page directly? 04:35:53 felirx: the latter, imo. 04:36:08 -!- mockupdue is now known as due 04:36:49 -!- mockupdpeg is now known as duped 04:36:53 How about epäjärjestemällisyydettömyyde... something like that 04:37:00 Sound shot 04:37:03 ADOM was actually pretty OD back when it had any D at all 04:37:13 sorear: ah, good to know. 04:37:13 OD? 04:37:28 a lot of the much-hated mechanics today were suggested by players who knew balance better than Thomas did 04:37:30 sorear: if you like, you can make comments right in the wiki. I'd appreciate that =) 04:37:35 due: my link ^ 04:37:42 I don't know enough of the details 04:37:44 it's about open source and open development in roguelikes 04:38:24 duped: oh, I see 04:38:41 sorear: I plan to finally have this an article for the roguelike conference. For that, I'll ask Jeff and other developers for comments. But first I ask here! 04:39:01 duped: I read it even before you asked; it's pretty interesting 04:39:26 one thing that can be noted is that an open-source model additionally makes forking possible, which is mostly irrelevant (but see both NetHack and DCSS, which started like that) 04:39:28 ais523: Feed-back! You guys've been playing all those games back in the day, no? 04:39:55 duped: I haven't played so many roguelikes (mostly just NetHack, Crawl, and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon) 04:40:03 duped: the mockup tutorial enters wiki any seconds now 04:41:00 felirx: I want to see it! 04:41:29 duped: "we got code without a single week"? 04:41:31 (re: Jiyva) 04:42:49 due: within 04:43:30 duped: ahh, okay 04:43:40 Ultimately, I'll send the article also to T.B. of ADOM and to P.R. of NH. Not really expecting any replies, of course. 04:44:25 if I were nitpicking I'd say that nethack had one-way open development. even though you wouldn't believe it looking at the current code, the devteam probably refused to include many things. slashem looks like they never did exclude anything :) But if one-way means you don't really know if and what the devteam discussed. it's like praying to a non-existent god and almost the same as closed development 04:45:02 bhaak: being cynical, you can say that the devteam have taken on board all the feedback they got, just refused to show anyone else the results :) 04:45:04 bhaak: the important bit about the O in OD is that it encourages players to give more feedback. :) 04:45:06 nethack devteam, that is 04:46:32 The NH devteam is more like the Vatican, or the Soviet Politbüro. 04:46:49 exactly and those still have fans! 04:50:25 duped: by repeatably reporting bugs by the form on nethack.org where you get a increasing ID, we can deduce that 250 submits where made between april 2009 and march 2010. but that doesn't include e-mails of course 04:52:15 bhaak: that's ingenious 04:52:33 I always send bugs via the report form, though 04:55:57 bhaak: but that only says they have input (in forms) of a bit less than 1/day. That's not OD to me :) 04:57:16 well, it's been over seven years since the last version; maybe people are just running out of things to say 04:57:28 but it's not open development from my point of view, either 04:57:38 with the best argument being "have you seen the NetHack bugtracker" 04:58:44 duped: it's a stable version, you can't expect increasing submission with such a thing 04:58:47 A bug tracker is a crucial part of OD... but NH manages to make even their bug tracker a highly convoluted and opaque affair :) 04:59:29 bhaak: my point is not about the numbers. My point is that the NH bug tracker is like a post box... there's no communication whatsoever. 04:59:50 duped: on the other hand, I don't think the NetHack bug tracker is convoluted at all 04:59:57 what it is, is incredibly lacking in useful information 05:00:00 Maybe I am using the wrong words :) 05:00:24 we've had long debates in various channels about just what specific bugs are 05:00:37 and spent hours chasing bugs that turned out to be already reported, just we couldn't tell from the description 05:00:38 oh, the response e-mails include the ID in the subject. first answer ID 238 on feb 7, 2007. that means ~1600 submission between feb 2007 and march 2009 05:01:49 (I rereported C343-30 a while back just because I couldn't tell it was the same bug) 05:01:56 duped: sure, I didn't want to claim otherwise, just to give some data points. People do still comment, even if it's closed development. sometimes surprisingly often, even if no real feedback from the dev team is given 05:02:45 bhaak: That's a lot of traffic. The NH devteam would have a much easier time by releasing a bugfix version. 05:03:04 we're trying to eke them into saying /something/; after posting C343-30 (with patch), they replied with a response detailed enough for me to figure out the exact fix that they'd already used 05:03:18 but it's kind-of sad to have to go to such lengths 05:04:48 duped: even though they have a distinction between Fixed (fixed in next major release) and fixed (fixed in next minor release) bugs, it seems they don't have two separate branches. There sometimes are answers they sound like somebody only has the current unstable dev version. They might not even be able to release a bugfix version! 05:05:27 bhaak: doh. No version control for NH? I can't believe that. 05:05:55 there's an official public NetHack svn repo, but in a great misunderstanding of the entire concept, all that's committed is release versions 05:06:19 bhaak: I'm pretty sure I've heard something that stated or implied they used CVS, but I'm not sure where 05:07:22 duped, ais523: yes, they used to use CVS (at least for the 3.3.1 relase IIRC) but that doesn't mean they also used the branch feature of it. And what they really have at the moment, nobody knows 05:07:37 -!- duped is now known as dpeg 05:08:05 We should be grateful that Peter and Nat set up DCSS with svn right away. 05:08:42 heh, even I version-control my patches to NetHack 05:14:22 I was laughing out loud yesterday when I read on adom's blog, that when he started adom, RCS was "pretty high tech stuff" 05:15:29 if wikipedia is correct, he has his numbers way off. RCS was ancient already in 1994 and CVS was probably at its peak at that time. 05:15:46 I have never even heard of RCS. 05:17:37 Revision Control System. 05:18:07 Well, people have been writing large programs for ages, so it's no wonder they thought about stuff like this. 05:19:14 IIRC RCS was only on one file 05:19:54 wikipedia lists these as free VCS: SCCS (1972) · RCS (1982) · CVS (1990) · CVSNT (1998) · Subversion (2000) and these as proprietary: CCC/Harvest (1970s) · ClearCase (1992) · Visual SourceSafe (1994) · Perforce (1995) · Team Foundation Server (2005) 05:21:17 lecture, back later 05:26:34 anyone know the expected value of min(random2(n), random2(n))? 05:48:29 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:usability_project:tutorial_redesign 05:49:44 "4.9: vi-keys are obscure and unituitive" <- I like that :) 05:53:20 I know people who still use RCS 05:55:42 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:28 hmm, that tutorial redesign looks interesting 06:05:44 some of the suggestions are already implemented in UnNetHack's tutorial 06:07:08 I should probably mention resting to regain health, though 06:13:21 RCS is not bad for local-only use without a big pile of files. 06:14:01 it's quite suitable for /etc 06:14:39 vikeys aren't obscure or unintuitive, they're just only usable to those who use vi. 06:15:01 in a perfect society, that would be everyone, but some people seemingly can't help but differ! 06:16:59 Zaba: I wouldn't say that; vikeys and vi are rather unrelated nowadys 06:17:04 because vi doesn't have the diagonals 06:17:38 diagonals are just half the thing, and aren't used as commonly as they are in hex crawl anyway 06:18:23 IMHO, diagonal vikeys in roguelikes are as much of a matter of habit as non-diagonal. 06:19:14 but considering that they cover both y and n, which might also be used in prompts, one could argue that they are misplaced. However, no other position seems to be so easy to reach out for whilst your fingers are on the regular vikeys. 06:22:29 the problem that y is on vikeys (not for german keyboard users :) led many nethack-players to the paranoid patch, where those dangerous prompts that can be answered only with y have been replaced with prompts that need a "yes" as answer 06:22:48 I believe some prompts in crawl need a upper-case Y 06:23:01 and it works fine in NetHack as you very rarely want to answer "yes" to such questions anyway 06:23:16 whereas in Crawl, there are so many prompts that pressing Y is a matter of habit 06:23:26 sufficiently so that I've shot off in an unexpected direction, at leat 07:00:56 so min(1dN,1dN) has expected value (N+1)(2N+1)/(6N) 07:01:19 now what about min(1dN+1dK,1dN+1dK)? 07:02:52 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:15 by: I've computed the EV of min(d(n)+d(n)), it should be 4(n^2-1)/3n. 07:28:38 by: oh, didn't see that you already had the EV. 07:29:24 and our values differ, too :) 07:29:33 how did you compute it? 07:30:25 (1dN: 1,2,3,...,N) 07:30:42 maybe you did random2(N) (0,1,...,N-1)? 07:31:20 by: sum of min(i,j)*1/n^2 over all pairs of integers (i,j) between 1...n 07:31:40 ok, I did it explicitly, too 07:31:57 this splits into three cases, diagonal (i=j), ij; the latter two give the same value, so they can be combined 07:32:49 yes, sounds good; I calculated probabilities of min(i,j) == k, etc. 07:33:07 I get n(n+1)/n^2 + 2*sum_{i for n=1, your formula above gives 0 07:33:30 the latter sum was (for me) 2*sum_k k(n-1-k)/n^2 07:34:04 true 07:35:02 In ^, it should be k(n-k), I guess. (If you fix k as the smaller integer, there's n-k choices for the larger one.) 07:35:15 No time to unravel this, sorry. Got to talk to someone. 07:35:35 by: !tell me, if I should have another look later. Gone again. 07:35:48 no, I'm pretty sure my calculation was correct 07:36:06 thanks! 07:43:34 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:31 maths :o scary ;o 07:56:05 it's news to me that the rule "ask $number people of $profession, get $number different answers" also holds for mathematicians :) 08:12:34 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:01 03by * r43f9de964ec3 10/crawl-ref/source/random-enum.h: New enum random_type, generalizing "bool random". 08:23:09 03by * re2c10d8fc574 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h melee_attack.h): calc_your_attack_delay() gives access to attack delay. 08:23:21 03by * rcea96c26d718 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h): Weapon parameter for calc_your_attack_delay. 08:23:23 03by * r59cb47231f09 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h melee_attack.h): Calculated expected attack delay. 08:23:25 03by * r25ba707d2625 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Print expected and maximal weapon delay. 08:26:12 -!- Fangorn_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:40 something may be wrong with those calculations... 08:28:55 Your attack delay: 122% (120% max) 08:30:04 and now it's 112% (120% max) which sounds much more reasonable, without any obvious changes... 08:33:48 argh, melee_attack::player_weapon_speed has another random part... 08:36:34 Shopping list for spell memorization might be nice.. 08:38:05 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:38:06 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:11 where is greensnark? the weapon delay code is far too complicated 08:38:16 -!- by_ is now known as by 08:41:17 so it seems those formulas are straight from the proposal... 08:46:54 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:46:55 03by * rc692b386ced5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc fight.cc fight.h melee_attack.h random-enum.h): Revert weapon delay calculation changes. 09:09:53 Just looking at the tutorial wiki. I think it's very good that the tutorial messages are inside the map definitions. 09:11:11 !seen Keskitalo 09:11:12 I last saw Keskitalo at Wed Apr 14 13:36:34 2010 UTC (34m 38s ago) saying Shopping list for spell memorization might be nice.. on ##crawl-dev. 09:13:09 it will need a way to differentiate between tiles and console though I think 09:14:44 felirx: yes, that's true. But in general, messages are data which would fit better inside the maps. Won't you think? 09:15:03 hardcoded versus found in a file 09:15:12 There's no question which you should pick. 09:16:39 felirx: which one? 09:17:48 hmm, it seems that someone completed NetHack unspoiled (although they had done heavy wiztesting) 09:18:13 hardcoded of course! 09:18:16 hardcode everything! 09:18:30 67 magical numbers in every function or it's bad codnig 09:19:01 ais523: plus a bones file from wizmode! 09:19:10 felirx: I wasn't sure for a moment :) 09:19:28 felirx: and the wiki has a TODO bullet as "should move these messages into code" 09:19:35 unclear whether the bones was wizmoded, or with a wizard (the class) 09:19:49 it's the welcome trigger 09:19:54 but it doesn't seem as though it was particularly problematic or overpowered 09:19:54 you can't do those from map files 09:20:30 since if you test the map, you will notice that the stair lua::message_a_spot does not trigger unless you move a tile and then back 09:20:42 the spawn stairs that is 09:28:05 dpeg: Yeah, only the welcome message. 09:28:41 Although I suppose you could make a version of message_at_spot that gives the message immediately. 09:28:57 And also have markers that track your hunger states etc inside the map. 09:29:23 Keskitalo: yes, lua should be able to do that. 09:29:28 That would actually be pretty good, if we make more than the basic tutorial mission. 09:31:23 Keskitalo: puzzle vaults! 09:32:16 We will book a team to test the map tutorials in the usability testing course next year. (It would be great to be able to do that now.) Of course, everyone can grab a friend who is new to Crawl and have them play it, resisting the urge to help, and note any problems. :) 09:32:19 Not just for fun, could also have players pit against popular monsters to die to: ogre, unseen horror etc. 09:32:20 dpeg: Oh yes! 09:32:25 *nods* 09:32:38 And I can make those Zelda-styled tide puzzles I've wanted! 09:32:43 :) 09:32:46 And shooter-style boss fight minigames! 09:33:41 (Not under Tutorial, of course) 09:33:46 :) 09:44:03 Sokoban! 09:44:22 as for pitting players against popular dangerous monsters, isn't that what Sprint does? 09:44:24 We don't have stuff that can be pushed around.. yet.. 09:47:32 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:37 Morning 09:47:45 Heyah Cryp71c! 09:47:51 ais523: no, not really 09:47:53 I'm enjoying a DSSu at the moment. :) 09:48:01 :) 09:48:04 Got DG, by chance? 09:48:13 dpeg: well, there's an ogre and Sigmund in rooms 2 and 3 09:48:25 Yup, since XL2. It's still weak (XL13 now). 09:48:34 ais523: yes, but it's not what I meant above. 09:48:53 Keskitalo, watch out for zot traps and friendly-fireballing, unless they've been fixed they'll turn your demon against you :) (but it still follows you between levels, lol) 09:49:05 I have to address that today 09:49:18 Oh no, I have accidentally turned it off at some point! 09:49:30 Cryp71c: Scrolls of immolation got one of my DSFi with DG killed. 09:49:35 Keskitalo, its of little concern, imps running around are fairly useless :P 09:49:37 yeah 09:49:38 Did that with this char as well. :) 09:50:42 Should the DG vanish occasionally (at extended periods of zero tension, for example)? 09:52:07 Cryp71c: I will close the DSFE vs Ice II FRs. In my opinion, we *want* choices like this. Not handhold players around them. Ok? 09:53:02 Sounds good to me; making DSFE unviable is the way to go if anything. 09:53:23 dpeg, please, I might address the severity with which icemail melts when you cast fire spells, but I'm not going to do anything else that's been asked for in that thread. 09:53:48 Keskitalo: I am not even sure about that. If you're a DSFE and you get Ice II, you *do* have a good use for rC (ring of fire!) and you simply can choose not to use the icemail. Or, you can choose to learn some non-fire spells. 09:53:57 Cryp71c: okay 09:54:12 dpeg: Yes, I agree it's not necessarily necessary. :) 09:54:54 DSFE can, with luck on mutations, reach an almost obscene level of power 09:55:15 felirx: which mutations? 09:55:28 anything that helps you survive 09:55:48 Keskitalo, I'm not fond of that entirely either, someone made a good point (sorear, or by?) that disallowing a particular job because of an ancient mechanic is a terrible approach. 09:55:57 and the fact that DS gets almost double the maxhp than a DE 09:56:26 Cryp71c: the ancient mechanic is good :) 09:57:34 dpeg, that casting a fire spell causes 0-fire dmg to the player? 09:57:47 why was that implemented in the first place, I wonder. 09:58:07 Cryp71c: to make icy armour spells go away? 09:58:21 I think it's a natural (flavour) and interesting (gameplay) rule. 09:58:36 wow rob's "other approach" in the combat info wiki is radical :P 09:58:47 radical ---> must look 09:58:52 you won't like it :P 09:59:03 syllogism, link? 09:59:06 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:combat_info 09:59:07 I get lost in the wiki 09:59:08 thx 09:59:18 so many sub-groups! 09:59:37 dpeg, melting is good, melting as a factor of power level / range of final destination is better, imo 10:01:16 Cryp71c: using Ice buffs and Fire spells does not mix. Sounds good to me! 10:01:46 food 10:01:51 like, I can understand hitting yourself (or even standing near) a fireball / scroll of immolation to melt the icemail, and casting hellfire would melt it entirely 10:02:09 but casting bolt of fire at a target 6 spaces away shouldn't melt it all the way down, and it should melt it less than throw flame would. 10:02:57 GAH! Linux is awesome. This download would've taken 4 hours on Windows, somehow Linux has it cut to 40 minutes. 10:03:48 Cryp71c: I think a clear-cut binary mechanic is more useful, easier to grasp and to balance. 10:04:58 It would be annoying to try to calculate if Ozo's Armour was worth picking up or not if you use Fire Bolt; much easier on the brain if it straight out cancels it. 10:05:27 Of course with the Ice Mail, you don't pick it yourself and it's on passively, so it's a little different. I still prefer a simple mechanism. 10:05:58 It makes less sense that casting a low-level fire spell would auto-melt icy armours than if the icy armour was melted as a factor of the strength of the fire spell. 10:06:04 What if, in a boring way it would just pick Ice I facet instead? 10:06:08 high spell level == more fire == more melting 10:06:42 felirx, DS muts are picked on character creation, there is no (and afaik will never be) any intention to change how that operates, or to factor in job choices / skills 10:06:45 Cryp71c: gameplay > making sense :) 10:06:54 Keskitalo, gameplay should make sense 10:07:07 else you'll have people struggling with mechanics they think should work 1 way and work entirely different. 10:07:14 idk 10:07:22 Guess its a moot point, its not a terribly high priority. 10:08:28 Yeah, but I don't really agree that it doesn't make sense. I can see that a subtler system would make sense, and would be a nice touch, but it fuzzies up a system that would (IMHO, of course) be better of simpler and is not problematic in the sense-making department. 10:08:59 ..silly word-twisting on my part :D 10:10:02 But, I don't think it's a case of "it should work entirely different", it's more like "wow that's harsh, I could see that being more kind". 10:14:57 the iron imp from demonic guardian gets left behind on autoexplore constantly :( 10:16:16 I think it's not necessarily a bad idea to make ice mail melt less for lesser fire damage 10:16:41 ice mail is not binary (on/off) anyway, right? 10:18:22 (I'm fine with that, I just like binary mechanics :)) 10:20:39 could some one who's listed as sf admin of crawl-ref please visit: https://sourceforge.net/downloads/crawl-ref/stats_timeline 10:21:05 I'd make it a function of strength (in expose_player_to_element), not of spell level, however 10:21:43 it's a beta version of their new download statistics but it's only created if an project admin visits i t 10:21:53 felirx, DG is being changed when I find a good point of balance for it, thanks. 10:22:27 by, its not technically binary, but casting any fire spell melts (almost) all of it away in a single cast 10:22:40 and it regens over time, not in a binary way 10:23:06 felirx, its rate of regen is static, cannot be increased in any way, and is negligible if in a combat enviornment. 10:23:27 For all intents and purposes, it might as well be 0-tension regen, because once its gone in a fight, you'll not get it back without some '5' 10:30:57 Awww, my DG found me in the Labyrinth. 10:34:12 lol 10:38:24 back 10:40:05 Cryp71c: I think the idea is that a fire spell emanating from you will necessarily produce some heat. 10:43:18 dpeg, certainly, and I can concded that the power of the fire spell would determine the amount of heat, thus, melting should be a factor of spell power? 10:47:12 Cryp71c: possibly, but the binary solution is simple (also to understand). 10:48:21 what's the idea behind casting firespells affecting ice mail and condensation shield, but not ozocubu's armour? 10:49:07 by: oversight, I guess 11:03:30 dpeg, teleport_at_will was removed as a DS mutation, but it doesn't appear to be a random mutation either. Do we want to keep it? if so, do we want to make it a random mutation? 11:04:31 I was wondering why someone removed that as a random mutation 11:05:14 was it you 11:05:46 Who is Robert Burnham 11:08:43 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:58 that's Cryp71c 11:11:17 yes, which is why that sentence was confusing 11:14:07 Cryp71c: I am not sure this was properly discussed. I never liked teleport as a mutation (DS or not), so I didn't say anything. 11:15:04 just been reading SA -- why do people feel "reading the wiki too depressing"? 11:17:26 do they mean mantis or that unofficial wiki 11:18:13 I find navigating the wiki challenging, though I've gotten used to it, everything is highly segmented, it seems to have quite a bit of old content too 11:18:30 the person who said that complains about everything 11:18:34 syllogism, IDK why I turned that off. 11:18:59 the whole namespacing was overengineered, at least without someone taking care of it 11:21:06 by: yes, Eronarn is rarely seen these days :) 11:21:21 It is very hard to plan such a think in advance. 11:30:14 I think this belongs to the "WTF" category : http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/great_entry_vault.png 11:30:59 oh there's a (secret?) door there 11:31:05 thought I had to take the stairs down 11:31:32 I searched through them and didn't spot any mm 11:31:41 03dolorous * rff9f6f7a3605 10/crawl-ref/source/libutil.cc: Since the manes has been renamed, remove the case for pluralizing it. 11:31:45 i mean the door you are standing on 11:31:54 normal door 11:31:54 pretty sure I didn't have a door there 11:32:06 felirx: you can hack through the fungi 11:32:24 @?? fungus 11:32:24 fungus (15f) | Speed: 0 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 1/0 | Flags: 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | XP: 0. 11:32:33 takes ages with a weaponless DEAE :( 11:36:38 dpeg, with regard to teleport, you feel like teleport_at_will and blink should be removed? 11:38:26 Cryp71c: yes, I feel that. But I guess it should be at least announced on c-r-d. 11:38:44 dpeg, k, I'll write it up 11:45:03 thank you 11:48:30 -!- Mooo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:48 -!- Mooo has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:42 03dolorous * rd9e31864f02e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make quasits moan instead of being silent. 11:57:46 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:01:49 03dolorous * r296a76a723ff 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Per evktalo's suggestion, experimentally remove imps' seeing invisible. 12:41:46 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:21 03dolorous * r9c4ceea93cfb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Fix the Shakespeare reference in Eustachio's speech. 12:56:10 03dolorous * rc5d076b43714 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (database/monspeak.txt descript/monsters.txt): Since most in-game speech seems to follow the convention of one space 12:56:21 03dolorous * rf5ea4a15a40c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Add punctuation fixes. 12:58:41 k, I'll be back. off to change my linux distro...again :P 12:58:58 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:16 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:31 03dolorous * r94ed5dcc5605 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Add spacing fix. 13:07:25 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:44 morning all 13:09:50 hi! 13:16:52 * Textmode huggles dpeg 13:32:26 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:41 dpeg: login to SF and go to https://sourceforge.net/downloads/crawl-ref/stats_timeline 13:44:51 I wanna see who does download crawl! 14:01:59 bhaak: go ahead 14:03:08 bhaak: working now? 14:03:21 dpeg: yepp 14:04:07 50% downloads from the usa since feb 14:07:29 Finland 79 14:07:37 I'm not one of them 14:07:47 those Russians are probably due to that russian unix site 14:17:29 the download numbers are even more skewed towards the USA than in the poll 14:18:27 bhaak: do you have a distribution by country for NH? 14:19:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:19:17 dpeg: no, one of the project members must go to this site before it's initialized 14:23:21 bhaak: did you ask one of them? 14:23:55 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 14:23:55 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:19 The text in a default 0.7 tiles installation looks terrible and difficult to read compared to a default 0.6 installation. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1362) by Huggz 14:25:04 that one's pretty confusing 14:25:17 looks like it's using a non-monospace font 14:26:26 doy: must be a rare bug, or people would've complained much earlier. 14:40:57 dpeg: I didn't ask them yet. My bug gre 14:41:19 dpeg: my bug report on SF got answered today 14:45:44 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:48 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:35 03kilobyte * r4438a7078191 10/crawl-ref/source/spells1.cc: No pacifying of tentacles; go heal the head instead! 15:14:51 kilobyte: that's good! 15:39:38 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:52 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:36 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: bye] 16:27:14 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:36:53 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:04 Quick question: what's up with the horrid font in the latest trunk? 16:37:54 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1358 sholud be this 16:39:10 it is. thanks. 16:50:55 Horrid? I'll disagree 16:51:34 t doesn't look all that bad in the newest trunk snapshot on win7 16:52:23 Exact pixel hintil is almost always better as long as we have these low resolution displays 16:52:27 hinging 16:52:32 hinting as well 16:52:39 Need more beer 16:54:46 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:55:08 I'm playing at 1920x1080 res though so it's hardly low res 16:55:53 The pixel size has stayed about the same for last 20 years 16:55:55 1920x1080 doesn't really say anything 16:56:01 it's the dpi that matters 16:56:05 yeah 16:56:13 that's what I meant 16:56:29 and yeah, pretty much every monitor made ever is ~72-100 dpi 16:56:52 absolute low end printers are 300dpi 16:56:53 so 17:10:33 so 17:10:49 We need better screens 17:11:02 So we can kiss goodbye to hinting 17:19:41 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:50 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:52 -!- Smee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:16 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:26 03dolorous * r1f6ab5fe8705 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give white imps poison resistance and fire vulnerability. 17:53:27 03dolorous * rddce3bf4db98 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give shadow imps see invisible. 17:53:28 03dolorous * r1edd87182a8e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add minor cosmetic fix. 17:56:23 Aww 17:56:37 Now we 17:56:42 Now we're down to 6 poisonable demons 18:00:44 03dolorous * reb99bfa95211 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Replace iron imps' fire resistance with hellfire resistance. 18:00:46 03dolorous * r10c9c8afb85f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 18:15:04 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:28 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:39 -!- mr0t has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:41 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:36 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:34 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 20:04:01 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:11:08 Prompt on hand attacks with weapon skill (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1363) by TGW 20:18:44 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:19:09 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:21 -!- Xiberia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:58 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:05 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:48 -!- Fangorn has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57:30 -!- Siber has quit [Quit: Whoa! Partial hit!] 21:07:12 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:27 don't read !r books when pressing M (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1364) by TGW 21:16:11 -!- pointless__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:18:49 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:43 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:19:52 -!- pointless__ is now known as pointless_ 21:21:48 I'm not sure I like the stepped down EV 21:22:08 26 and 31 dex have the same EV as a 13-dodge kobold 21:22:32 Hmm. That does sound questionable 21:25:27 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:49 I mean, that's 15 levels of nothing but dex increases 21:27:39 spending that on str gets you 150 carrying capacity and lets you use armour another tier or two up, and int reduces spell hunger by a billion 21:27:45 in addition to all kinds of other things 21:30:43 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:01 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:08 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:59 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:07 -!- eith has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:13:11 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 22:23:41 considering that dex above 16 didn't used to do anything at all 22:23:45 i don't think that's a problem 22:23:52 26 dex is still really high 22:24:12 and you're still getting more ev from that than in 0.5 22:38:31 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:36 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:04 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:57 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]