00:35:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:56:59 -!- fwiffo_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:58:13 Uniques are not unique (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1078) by b0rsuk 01:03:15 Flavour: Message when you switch to a good god from a good god (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1079) by ledtim 01:35:24 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:42 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:39 -!- ivan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:29 -!- keithburgun has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:43:52 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:55 -!- ivan has quit [Changing host] 01:43:55 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:22 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:48 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:57:43 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:43 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:43 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:44 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 02:12:06 can someone look at clouded's game on cdo and tell me if this is buggyness? 02:47:03 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:50 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:30 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:27 Napkin: The new CDO front page is good. Also, screenshots, yay! 03:52:45 Eino :) 03:53:08 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:08 Shining One doesn't reward HP/MP for killing demons (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1080) by ledtim 04:05:51 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 04:11:30 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:12:12 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:26 napkin, whats up with all the evil javascripts that run on CDO? :) 04:25:51 oh, it's not much - just the default wordpress stuff 04:26:07 nothing added additionally - apart from the polls addon, maybe 04:26:20 hehe ok 04:26:26 got noscript running so... :) 04:26:36 and? any trouble? 04:26:43 nah, not that I noticed 04:26:47 except that it said it blocked 3 scrits 04:26:48 good :) 04:26:53 keep me posted if you see anything? 04:26:56 yeah, scripts are made to be blocked :) 04:26:59 sure 04:27:13 stupid police 04:27:19 didn't get my ID 04:27:23 got my new passport but not my ID :( 04:28:08 what do you need an ID card for when you have a passport? :) 04:28:40 keep the passport at home :) 04:28:57 didn't like that they took finger prints 04:29:03 stupid United States of terror 04:29:08 forcing stuff like this on us 04:29:30 don't you live in Europe? do you need to travel outside? 04:29:39 happens 04:30:29 but yes, I live in sweden 04:32:29 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/03/usb_combination.html 04:32:30 rofl 04:32:32 joke of the day :) 04:52:23 03by * rf26d71f8b9ab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (l_debug.cc test/unique.lua): test/unique.lua: Unique tracking tests. 04:52:39 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:32 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 05:04:09 I wonder if the occasional duplicate uniques might be due to save file or memory corruption? 05:08:24 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:09 has anyone ever seen two sigmunds? 05:13:49 by: Awesome cleanup work! 05:14:01 by, sounds like fun :) 05:14:05 should fix the bug 05:14:07 and add a feature 05:14:13 that you get an unique and a copycat unique 05:14:13 :) 05:14:21 (make it intentional sometimes) 05:24:25 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:06 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Sightseeing in Kansai] 05:57:56 levitation and bat form and messages (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1081) by rob 06:05:13 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:09 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:06 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:51 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:55 03by * r397258dfb335 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: TilesFramework::redraw: return instead of delay when not drawing. 08:05:56 03by * r39bfd57cd7f0 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: TilesFramework::redraw: comment on slight inaccuracy of fps calculation. 08:06:01 03by * r5c1c7fb951e6 10/crawl-ref/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Make tiles maximal FPS configurable. 08:06:03 03by * ra8d4ff32a2aa 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: TilesFramework::redraw: Rename min_fps to max_fps. 08:12:10 !tell doy It'd be nice to get a new 0.6 tiles build out with 397258df (and the related commits) 08:12:10 by: OK, I'll let doy know. 08:19:42 What does this step our of time of Chebradpit do? 08:20:24 ??time step 08:20:24 time step[1/1]: The big get-out-of-jail card. Moves you to nowhere and lets time pass. During that time, monsters wander away and (with big Invo) can even go to sleep. It needs a lot of Invocations to be reliable, 10 or so should be enough. 08:21:52 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:21:52 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:21 -!- by_ is now known as by 08:24:24 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:26 -!- marcmagus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:12 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:05 -!- marcmagus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:32 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:20 hmm, why does invo mess with monster behaviour there? 09:19:38 the obvious implementation would be to just remove the player from the map and fast-forward a bit, to see what the monsters do 09:22:43 I'm not sure how it's actually implemented, but: monsters don't ever fall asleep while you're on the level as far as I know, while they do if you've been off the level for a while 09:23:43 yeah, my guess would be that invo just increases the time you step out for 09:23:43 doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:23:58 which can make monsters fall asleep if it's long enough 09:24:06 i've never looked at the implementation though 09:24:08 !messages 09:24:08 (1/1) by said (1h 11m 58s ago): It'd be nice to get a new 0.6 tiles build out with 397258df (and the related commits) 09:30:28 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:22 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:33:57 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:16 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:54 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:45:38 night all 10:46:03 Night, yo. Morning here 10:46:09 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 10:48:25 Indeed, morning here as well. 10:49:32 Any news on the pending 0.6 release? 10:50:27 the comments on ththere will be another rc release first, lots of bugs fixed from the first rc 10:50:34 meh, stupid client 10:52:08 Thanks 10:55:59 -!- Adeon is now known as MaryPoppins 10:57:01 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:11 -!- LordSloth is now known as LordSlothW 11:03:08 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:11 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:39 Cheers 11:12:15 !seen Keskitalo 11:12:15 I last saw Keskitalo at Tue Mar 16 10:13:49 2010 UTC (5h 58m 26s ago) saying by: Awesome cleanup work! on ##crawl-dev. 11:12:23 Keskitalo: still around? 11:14:21 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 11:22:05 !tell doy 597654 is for 0.6 (fix TSO evil/unholy breakage) 11:22:05 by: OK, I'll let doy know. 11:28:29 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:39 03by * r597654f496b8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Restore TSO healing power gain from killing demons. 11:29:09 dpeg, yo 11:29:39 -!- LordSlothW is now known as LordSloth 11:49:09 -!- karmatic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:12 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:50 -!- ixtli has quit [Client Quit] 11:59:31 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:35 -!- ixtli has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:03 dpeg: Evenings! 12:03:28 Hi all! 12:04:33 Keskitalo: Thank you for chiming in on the Div blog. But be aware that we cannot expect players to understand us. Largely speaking, they parse "remove [something]" as "less fun". 12:07:10 Yes, I'm aware of this. :) I liked Napkin's comment on Closer and Closer to 0.6 btw! 12:07:52 you can amass infinite scrolls too 12:07:54 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:08 syllogism: Ahh, good point. 12:08:44 Eino :) 12:08:50 shouldn't really justify these decision with post-game related arguments anyway 12:09:20 when you are farming pan for equipment you've basically won the game long ago 12:09:32 dpeg, with the thin skele scale mutation, do you still want the Nightsalker mutation implemented? 12:09:51 syllogism, what's being changed about pan? 12:10:03 nothing for now and I wasn't referring to that 12:10:40 oh ok 12:11:09 syllogism: That is true. 12:11:34 i don't understand why everyone keeps going on like we're removing divinations completely, forever 12:11:34 doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:11:50 Cryp71c: yes, they're quite different, imo 12:11:59 !messages 12:12:00 (1/1) by said (49m 55s ago): 597654 is for 0.6 (fix TSO evil/unholy breakage) 12:12:12 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:21 doy: yes. Don't worry about the complaints. 12:12:41 syllogism: do you understand the axing of Div? 12:13:11 Hey guys. 12:13:16 Hi 12:13:29 yo 12:13:36 dpeg: I think he's just rightly saying that free identifcation of Pan loot is a weak argument for axing the school. :) 12:13:45 ixtli_: Hi! 12:13:56 is there a rod with ID? :) 12:14:07 Hey! I'm trying to configure a bouncer using the colloquy protocol. 12:14:08 Keskitalo: quite possibly, which is why I asked syllogism another question :) 12:14:15 To get push message on my phone. 12:14:22 hehe :) 12:14:31 I'm on a night bus going to Nagoya atm. 12:14:36 But I wanna keep up. 12:14:39 :D 12:14:51 dpeg: yes, but I do consider some of these axed spells fun to use 12:15:18 or one at least :P 12:15:20 -!- ixtli_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:15:38 (identify) 12:16:13 syllogism: I have a plan for a misc item, which identifies stuff :) 12:16:28 sounds good as long as it's rare 12:16:42 did anyone have or hear of problems because of wiki & mantis being on https now? 12:16:50 the only thing that worries me about the axing of Div schools is that there's now only one way to accomplish certain tasks, like finding traps; and that makes traps very hard to balance (because they either end up so dangerous as to require T&D, or so harmless that there's no reason to bother, unless you're very careful) 12:16:57 Napkin, not I 12:17:24 overall, though, the removal of div spells seems to make sense; the issue with spells is that they're inherently spammable, and nothing else does that but melee and a few invocations 12:17:25 it doesn't help that traps&doors is one of the most scummy and annoying skills to raise 12:17:43 stabwound, really? I never have any issues raising T&D if I want to. 12:18:03 xp in pool and ctrl + direction next to a trap 12:18:10 bam, T&D 12:18:19 scummy and annoying 12:18:32 cryp71c, ctrl+dir, and waiting to get health 12:18:35 and redo it 12:18:37 at least it's much easier than it used to be 12:18:38 na, the scale factor for xp on it is high, so it dumps quite a bit of xp into it. 12:18:40 and searc hfor more traps and redo it 12:18:40 :) 12:18:49 also, that's pretty much the definition of victory dancing 12:18:52 WAY better than any number of other skill sets. 12:19:05 training weapon/fighting is nice 12:19:07 imo 12:19:09 the Let's Play of Crawl recommended in 0.5 that you should victory-dance T&D up to 5, always 12:19:10 Most training can be improved, including T&D. 12:19:13 since its just integrated 12:19:18 dpeg: agreed 12:19:18 and they "just train" without any dancing 12:19:25 ais523, crawl playstyle is victoring dancing 12:19:33 this is why its getting an overhaul 12:19:34 Cryp71c: I don't think that's deliberate... 12:19:45 i always turn off t&d because the traps are a nonthreat except on zot 5 and I can't really let that 0.0001% xp go to waste 12:19:50 Certainly not, but its a minor problem 12:19:57 Planting traps will help. 12:20:11 and some skills can't easily be danced up, such as evocations or bows 12:20:34 which is why I hope we're moving to a pre-dancing system! yayayayyayaya! 12:20:45 ais523, evo is easily dancable with decks/rods 12:20:52 ais523, or staff och channeling or orbs 12:21:14 hmm, forgot about rod/staff, possibly because I never find any 12:21:15 ais523, or any other misc item 12:21:53 most evokable randarts will work fine as well 12:21:56 sorear, just so you know, my bad on the "Add Spiny Mutation" patch, it has some trailing whitespace. 12:22:07 yeah or ring of levi/tele/blink 12:22:26 tele is probably too expensive nutrition wise 12:22:40 or at least not ideal 12:22:45 am I at least correct about bows, though? 12:22:53 you'd mulch all your ammo if you tried to victory-dance that 12:22:54 you'll keep cancelling/teleporting with it 12:22:56 but dunno about hunger 12:23:12 ais523, well you don't realy need to victory dance it, you can just use bows 24/7 12:23:20 traps and doors seems to train fine if you don't turn it off 12:23:23 cbus: no you can't, as again you run out of ammo if you try 12:23:28 I doubt you can use bows 24/7 without okawaru 12:23:32 ais523, hmm, not with oka/trog in trunk 12:23:34 trog gifts ammo too 12:23:40 plus they mulch less than they used to 12:23:44 oh 12:23:49 good 12:24:06 I've played quite a few AMs in trunk, they all seem to mulch themselves to death if you try pure archery 12:24:07 dunno if ammo gifting got changed but when I played with oka I got like a gift every 50 turns 12:24:10 or something 12:24:10 I wonder if it's possible to use strictly bows from turn 1 now 12:24:18 probably not 12:24:22 ais523, I victory dance bows often with +5 and only lose a couple. 12:24:25 maybe hunters would do better, but they'd still need to be lucky 12:24:26 Or better yet 12:24:30 finding enchant scrolls early, etc 12:24:34 stabwound: It is, imo. 12:24:34 victory dance with all my crappy ammo 12:24:35 stabwound, you should try the RC :) 12:24:53 (trunk is where its at) 12:25:08 When is trunk getting put back on CDO, I'm curious? 12:25:19 after release 12:25:23 ah, gotcha. 12:29:53 So I think it works. Could someone use my name to trigger a push notfication? 12:30:59 ixtli: Like this? 12:32:18 Grr. Didn't wanna work. 12:35:45 dpeg, "You slip into the darkness of the dungeon" or "You slip into the darkness" or something else ? (Nightstalker mut) 12:36:22 for the notification text 12:36:31 "You feel one with the darkness"? Might be a bit too emo :) 12:37:22 You feel more at home in the dark ? :) 12:37:23 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:26 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:34 doy: rc1 has the EV nerf, right? 12:37:38 dpeg: yes 12:37:50 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:04 doy: still feels so powerful :) 12:38:09 (: 12:38:16 ev has always been powerful 12:38:23 probably, yes 12:38:31 My EV is between 30 and 44 12:38:36 i've always preferred ev fighters to ac 12:38:49 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:39:37 doy: Oh, I virtually never play AC characters. 12:44:20 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:30 Heh, Slouch doesn't alert monsters. 12:45:49 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:46:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:26 Hmh. Chei forgave my accidental hurry "just this once", and this was moth of wrath. 12:47:14 he says that if you've the mutation too 12:47:22 "just this once" really means "every time" 12:47:56 Okay, that's not too bad. 12:48:09 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:23 syllogism: but it sounds better :) 12:52:19 yeah, EV dropps off pretty drastically after 50 :( that game with the Sp that scummed dex via the ice form bug only had like 58 naturally 12:54:17 !tell due My first real, working trove today! It yielded more money than it cost, though (plus it had a scroll of acquirement). I still suggest to get rid of (a) the option to buy yourself in, (b) no gold should ever be placed in vaults as * or | item (not just for troves). Also, someone recently had a trove which asked for a spellbook which was in a shop, but the player already had from Vehumet. Acceptable? 12:54:17 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 12:54:22 grrr 12:54:31 !tell due My first real, working trove today! It yielded more money than it cost, though (plus it had a scroll of acquirement). I still suggest to get rid of (a) the option to buy yourself in, (b) no gold should ever be placed in vaults as * or | item (not just for troves). 12:54:32 dpeg: OK, I'll let due know. 12:54:58 !tell due Also, someone recently had a trove which asked for a spellbook which was in a shop, but the player already had from Vehumet. Acceptable? 12:54:58 dpeg: OK, I'll let due know. 12:55:01 Vampire's Tooth artefact and vampires (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1082) by ledtim 12:55:50 dpeg: I heard about a treasure trove that asked for a +5 robe of resistance 12:56:12 LordSloth: that's absolutely okay! 12:57:56 does the trove eat the loot? 12:58:00 yes 12:58:02 That it asks for? 12:58:15 yes 12:58:16 its gone 12:58:18 afaik 12:58:32 dpeg, I've ever only had troves that ask for gold, and then made that gold + 200 or more back 12:58:45 it does that if you don't pay to lock it 12:58:54 Cryp71c: yes, gold should not be used for troves. 12:59:20 yeah, I rather like the uniqueness of it asking for an item...does it only ask for items you've already seen? 12:59:30 or does it flag the item you've seen for guaranteed creation later on? 13:00:10 Cryp71c: it can ask for 12 scrolls of remove curse, even though your current dungeon only has 3 right now. 13:00:46 right, but what about really rare items that you havn't seen yet, eg, golden dragon armour, and your game might not have a golden dragon spawn anywhere? 13:01:07 -!- yobbo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:16 Your game may also stop producing remove curse scrolls. 13:02:03 ah, ok. SO troves are not guaranteed entry by any means. 13:02:34 obviously not, that would be dumb 13:04:51 rofl, crawl source makes me laugh: http://paste2.org/p/720154 13:06:03 dpeg, you wanted nightstalker 2 and 3 to be activable, correct? 13:06:10 Cryp71c: yes 13:06:34 Cryp71c: :) 13:07:59 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:33 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:21 dpeg, what's a reasonable time frame for nightstalker 2 and 3? 13:11:06 20 turns? 13:12:07 well, since it doesn't (presently) cost food or anything and only reduces LOS, i imagine players will want it on for as long as they can suffer the LOS reduction. 13:12:22 What about turning it off / turning it on manually 13:12:37 s/suffer/live with 13:15:24 Cryp71c: Don't put too much effort into nightstalker... 13:15:46 ... this mutation is a proof of concept (if reducing LOS can work and be fun). 13:15:55 The simplest solution is okay for a start. 13:16:07 passive, guaranteed no-reversal LOS reduction? 13:16:18 then we can move it to an ability later on for balance 13:16:45 ok 13:16:54 Cryp71c: note that reduced LOS is double-edged. 13:17:02 dpeg, right 13:17:07 wait, what benefit does it provide? 13:17:12 I thought it was purely negative 13:17:18 -!- yobbo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:29 Cryp71c: no! It is ideal for stabbing, and also good for fleeing. 13:18:15 oh, so monsters are less likely to detect you if you can't see them? 13:18:28 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:36 Cryp71c: LOS is, and should always be, symmetric 13:18:49 ahhh, ok, that's what I was missing. 13:18:54 It's also night for the monsters :) 13:19:15 so nightstalker is more "night follows you" and less "youre aweosme in the shadows" 13:19:30 yes, probably 13:19:39 k, the latter was my initial presumption. 13:28:32 hrm, apparently you can exercise stealth if your stealth skill is <= 2 + random2(3) and 1 in 18 chance, if and only if you're not wearing a lantern of shadows. 13:28:41 thats awefully elaborate for low-stealth training. 13:29:16 dpeg, and lantern sets stealth to 0? 13:29:56 Cryp71c: yes 13:30:06 Cryp71c: for some skills, early training is made easier 13:30:40 dpeg, yeah, the stealth exercise <= 2+random2(3) makes sense, aside from the fact that it checks for lantern of shadows, which an early player wouldn't otherwise have 13:30:46 was surprised about the lantern thing 13:30:49 (stealth = 0) 13:32:55 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:25 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:14 Cryp71c: not sure... you simply aren't stealthy with the lantern. Doesn't the description even mention this? 13:36:32 dpeg, it definitely wasn't in the learndb, I just added it. Let me check description in a local game. 13:37:19 "An unholy device which calls on the power of darnkess to assist its user, with a small cost attached." 13:37:39 Cryp71c, is that a description of a computer? 13:37:39 How benevelently vague :P 13:37:46 Zaba, lol, def. 13:38:18 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:26 ixtli: sorear replied to you on the mailing list, right? I couldn't make sense out of either question nor answer, though :) 13:43:58 Haha yeah a while ago. 13:44:36 one week 13:51:04 this vestibule had geryon, two stone giants and a lava snake 13:53:18 Noooo! Had to rebuild most of the .o for a change in enum 13:55:08 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:40 dpeg, lol reducing LOS by 4 reduces player LOS radius to 2 :P 13:59:59 dpeg, ohwait, I've got this coded improperly. 14:00:05 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:53 -!- murphy_slaw__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:51 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:52 -!- murphy_slaw__ has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:26 by: and that 14:08:28 's all? 14:09:52 !tell sorear I'm getting you a new patch for DS Spiny that doesn't have trailing whitespace. 14:09:52 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let sorear know. 14:09:57 dpeg, (same message to you, obviously) 14:10:53 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:18 dpeg, also, what should happen if you try to wield the lantern of shadows with the nighstalker mutation, if we allow it, it drops LOS to 2 14:13:02 Cryp71c: ok! 14:14:50 I presume that's an 'ok, lantern + nighstalker is fine?' 14:15:51 yes 14:26:18 new muts sound interesting 14:28:33 Mu_: in general, or in this special case? 14:28:43 Mu_: also, my KeSt was on V:8. Nice work! 14:28:46 in general, just found the wiki page for them 14:28:51 cool :) 14:29:16 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:54 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:02 dpeg: maybe 4 stone giants and a centaur warrior in total 14:35:27 by: sounds buggy 14:35:36 doy: did you apply the !Magic commit to 0.6? 14:35:50 i don't remember 14:36:06 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:37 doy: probably not, I found one potion of magic in a whole big dungeon :) 14:36:46 doy: doesn't really matter, as the patch should be in trunk. 14:42:19 when people complain, its a big compliment at the same time. It means they care enough about your game to complain :) 14:43:43 purge: that is undoubtedly true. 14:47:05 dpeg, hrm, I'm building this (growing) list of patches and before I email them to you, I test them, and I'm finding that I can update / reset my repo to head and apply the first 2, but when I apply the 3rd, it fails because it was built on top of the origin/master which has changed (sufficiently) because of the first two patches, however, I didn't want to build the 3rd patch (Nightstalker) on top of the changes from 14:47:05 the first 2, thus requiring those in order to apply the Nightstalker patch. 14:47:21 Trying to keep it as universally compliant/useful you to guys, but its becomming a bit difficult. 14:48:08 Any advice? Quash all 3 patches into 1 patch? build the Nighstalker patch so that it requires the first 2 patches to be applied? 14:49:17 Cryp71c: phew, I don't really know. 14:49:20 sorear: you around? 14:49:41 Cryp71c: since these patches will likely go through sorear, best talk to him; probably rebase everything on master 14:53:24 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:13 Cryp71c: yes, you can discuss all the design with me. The coding and patching questions are for sorear. 14:57:56 gotcha, well..for the moment its in 3 separate patches which must layer on top of one another. 14:58:08 I'm not even sure how to build it so they are independent of one another. 15:02:03 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:18 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:07:03 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:18:07 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:58 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:23 seems like I also get the random second lag on level up in rc1 15:25:58 tiles? 15:26:02 yes 15:26:03 win 15:26:44 felirx: I think I've fixed that in trunk 15:27:48 felirx: Hi there! 15:27:54 ello 15:28:25 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:47 dpeg: the menus are at this stage: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/species_work_in_progress_console.png, haven't had time to finish it yet. 15:32:59 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 15:41:03 felirx: was just busy fetching the slimy rune -- this looks absolutely wonderful. Yay :) 15:42:21 it looks like you can apport away the liches-in-glass loot without freeing the liches; does that matter? 15:43:22 by: I am not too happy about it. Also, the trigger could be more random, I think. 15:44:29 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 15:46:42 the brown color on the elf right now represents the selected 15:46:50 it will hopefully have a highlight instead though 15:46:56 and keep the original text color 15:47:12 felirx: yeah. Also, it says "background" at the top but lists species. 15:47:21 But these are pretty minor points :) 15:48:34 dpeg, trying to construct "gain" text for Demonic Guardian...something along the lines of "An affinity for demons grows." 15:48:40 recoloring the text itself is... bad. Imagine someone highlighting a n/a or unviable combo and suddenly it's all brown 15:49:02 by, are you talking about dpeg's game? 15:49:05 how about if the loot is taken, it breaks the spell imprisoning the lich? the glass disappears ;) 15:49:17 felirx: are you familiar with the current method of highlighting saved games? 15:49:36 purge: would be nice if it sometimes also happened earlier. 15:49:40 I had an lich vault with 2 AL's behind glass, IDK if I stepped on a trap or if they broke their own way out, but they got out on their own. 15:49:44 a lich vault* 15:49:49 I've looked throught the menus code and i'll find the correct line when I need to 15:50:00 I was more interested on getting the whole thing to work than just the tidbit :) 15:50:18 although there's a class just for returning the highlight color... 15:50:42 felirx: sure sure. I was just saying that there is a nice bar somewhere :) 15:51:09 all I really need to do is set the text backcolor to something else and maybe fill with spaces 15:51:48 felirx: ideally, use the same method as from the starting screen. Or rather, use the same method (whichever it will be) in all three places. 15:55:39 currently, the menus use another class for the actual rendering. However, it's implemented like this: class Menu {... DisplayMenu* m}; and then in DisplayMenu we have a constructor which takes a pointer to a Menu object, which is... odd 15:58:25 dpeg, do summons / friendlies affect player stealth? eg, if Im a stealth DS with the "Demonic Guardian" who is walking around me, a) will it automatically attack a sleepin creature without me giving it a shout-attack command, and b) will its presence increase the monster's chance of waking up? 15:59:01 Cryp71c: yes to both. 15:59:11 Cryp71c: some DS mutations will need to be mutually exclusive. 15:59:19 felirx: aha :) 15:59:53 I meant to say menus in general 16:00:14 dpeg, yeha, but I could go a stealth build DS without having NS or thin skeletal structure, get Demonic Guardian and either a) have a wasted char or b) have a wasted mut 16:00:22 I was thinking making Demonic Guardian summonable/dismissable 16:01:00 Dismiss it as you're stealthing around, then, then when you want it, 'a' then 'f' or whatever to bring it back. 16:01:41 Cryp71c: hm, perhaps. 16:01:53 But I wouldn't do anything like this for now. 16:02:09 Once the DS mutations are in trunk (and CDO has trunk again), we can test them,. 16:16:51 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:36:32 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:57 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 16:43:28 dpeg: Saw my NaTm^C win? 16:44:06 Keskitalo: no :( 16:44:32 I am looking for your comments on the C wiki page right now, but I can't find them. 16:44:40 At the bottom! 16:45:16 Did you sign? 16:45:35 Keskitalo: What do you think -- is C overpowered? Did you have any close calls with the NaTm? 16:45:38 Yes, should be the very last bullet. Try refreshing? 16:46:16 Yes, good comment. 16:46:31 Feedback on the numbers is good, these take a while to get tuned well. 16:47:03 Keskitalo: I found that with minimum speed, an unexpected crisis can come up quite easily. 16:47:16 Previous NaTm had a nice close call on the bottom of the Lair with a hydra; was saved by Step Out of Time. 16:47:25 dpeg: I played very, very carefully.. 16:47:41 !won Keskitalo 16:47:42 Keskitalo has won 5 times in 107 games (4.67%): 1xDDHe 1xHuSu 1xMDFi 1xMDPa 1xNaTm 16:47:56 Best combo of your wins :P 16:48:11 Of course, a transmuter is very versatile, and I had good gear I think. 16:48:29 Blade Hands is great with Chei, and I had a +0, +7 slaying ring at the end. :) 16:48:31 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~chei 16:48:35 ah 16:48:39 8. rob the Ninja (L27 VpAs), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-03-16, with 904707 points after 187046 turns and 13:43:26. 16:48:56 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~fedh 16:48:56 7. pointless the Scorcher (L27 HaFE), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-02-25, with 1254291 points after 113654 turns and 6:47:47. 16:48:59 Orb run with Spider Form + Dig. 16:49:04 My KeSt was supposed to be a pure conjurer, but then I first bought a quickblade and later found two slaying rings... so turned the guy into a stabber. 16:49:09 Hehee. :) 16:49:12 Keskitalo: so cool. 16:49:12 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~jiy 16:49:13 6. 78291 the Brawler (L22 DrIE), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-03-13, with 1240816 points after 91648 turns and 5:16:37. 16:49:27 doy: and now Fedhas :) 16:49:31 ah, sorry, I am too slow 16:49:34 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~jiy s=name 16:49:34 6 games for * (ktyp=winning god=~jiy): 2x 78291, 1x Mumu, 1x hyperbolic, 1x N78291, 1x MarvinPA 16:49:51 heh 16:50:00 I think I had a very smooth Zot:5, only needed to battle something like a single draconian before entering the chambers, and only got monsters one-by-one. Stealth was *very* good to have. 16:50:07 zipcode won three times with his god... and I just encountered a Sp^J ghost by him on Zot:5 16:50:18 Keskitalo: well, naga :) 16:50:31 Aye. Nagas rock. 16:50:52 Yeah, always did. 16:51:54 Apart from Slouch piety cost, I can't think of anything that was obviously in need of tweaking. 16:52:47 Not having to worry about acid damage to gear was a nice perk btw. :) 16:53:07 I would hope that the middling approach (not fully slow) is viable; as is C for species with limited slots. 16:53:14 my Vp of Che ran out of piety occasionally 16:53:17 If not, we may want to tweak the god at a later stage. 16:53:25 by: from slouching? 16:53:31 yes 16:53:48 but that doesn't mean it's not too cheap 16:53:51 by: aye 16:54:44 Does the piety gain take the speed difference between you and monsters into account? It could be that nagas gain it so fast. 16:54:58 Keskitalo: how can I get into the SF FR tracker? 16:55:06 Keskitalo: yes 16:55:24 0.6.0-rc currently has double win rate compared to 0.5.* 16:55:38 by: do you think that's a bad sign? 16:55:49 I'd guess there's another explanation. 16:55:50 I think it means nothing 16:55:56 It should be visible. I've left it public after all, since TGW expressed interest into looking at the old FRs, and they're linked in the wiki etc.. 16:56:12 http://sourceforge.net/projects/crawl-ref/develop 16:56:24 Keskitalo: yes, from time to time I will need the old tracker, too, 16:56:29 right now for example :) 16:57:37 Maybe I'll try to win the HEAM^F next. (greedy) 16:57:59 !lg 16:57:59 107. evktalo the Brawler (L27 NaTm), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-03-16, with 1286052 points after 140909 turns and 16:58:35. 16:58:02 17 hours... 16:58:13 !lg 16:58:13 1567. rob the Ninja (L27 VpAs), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-03-16, with 904707 points after 187046 turns and 13:43:26. 16:58:20 faster! 16:58:23 Slow god indeed! 16:58:33 Need to take every step carefully. :) 16:58:53 !lg natm 16:58:58 30. MarvinPA the Sensei (L27 NaTm), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-03-10, with 1743715 points after 134252 turns and 13:00:09. 16:59:04 :D 16:59:25 MarvinPA: Oh nice! Thoughts on piety gain/costs? 17:00:23 hmm, i was worrying about being low on piety for slouch during zot:5, but i was pretty much tough enough not to need it, luckily 17:00:32 I should probably play a non-Chei transmuter to see if the Blade Hands melding rings would be a good idea. 17:00:48 the piety gain was generally pretty quick, but i had nowhere safe-ish left to go to get more piety 17:00:58 MarvinPA: I just pewpewpewd all the orbs of fire and electric golems as soon as I saw them. 17:01:25 heh, i did that in an early zot:5 visit, but it cost me a fair chunk of piety and i got teleportitis i think 17:01:43 so i left and was debating doing another branch to get more piety 17:02:15 i was gonna do tomb with summons then realised that wouldn't gain me any piety at all 17:02:28 Was your fourth rune from Slime? 17:02:33 yeah 17:02:47 5x slouch killed the royal jelly and all his spawn :P 17:03:47 My game used Vehumet, shame on me. But I have to say that Guardian Spirit, lots of MP and Vehumet are a match made in heaven. 17:03:54 step from time seems like a very cool power, i think i only used it once though 17:04:45 i got myself completely surrounded by a kraken's tentacles while flying over deep water, so blink wouldn't save me :P 17:05:35 Didn't have Shoals. :| 17:05:46 MarvinPA: Nice! 17:06:37 the decision between pondering good armour and waiting on getting more scrolls to enchant it seems good, too 17:07:15 Yeah, that seemed good to me too. 17:07:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:41 MarvinPA: yes, I was quite fond of creating that choice =) 17:10:44 I used Stone skin and Regeneration all the time, should probably also mention that. 17:11:13 Keskitalo: are you able to read the comments for SF FR items? 17:12:32 dpeg: Yeah. 17:13:46 Hm, I am not, but this could be konqueror's fault. 17:14:35 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:16:18 hmm, i just found a randart amulet of guardian spirit 17:16:43 and when i put it on, it drained my mp with no message and identified as an amulet {tried, EV+4 Str+5} or something 17:16:47 Hmm, both my NaTms also used gourmand, not sure if that affects a lot. 17:17:01 oh wait 17:17:15 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:22 Sleep. Cheers! 17:17:22 yeah, it gave the "you feel your power drawn to a protective spirit" message 17:17:32 but didn't id as an amulet of gs 17:19:35 Keskitalo: bye 17:19:51 MarvinPA: bug! 17:19:59 am doing :) 17:21:21 also i may now get to try your combination of guardian spirit and vehumet, with it :P 17:22:41 MarvinPA: your amulet sounds like a killer 17:23:03 yep, i just found sublimation of blood as well :D 17:24:19 MarvinPA: thanks for BR. And this amulet is a keeper. 17:24:32 Keskitalo: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:orbrun 17:26:24 Randart amulet of guardian spirit not correctly inscribed upon being worn (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1083) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 17:30:32 bye 17:30:47 whoa 17:30:55 PA stands for paranoid android 17:31:04 yes :P 17:31:19 that's an old starcraft pro map 17:31:43 hmm, never heard that one before :o 17:32:02 it's also a radiohead song, which people frequently assume is what the name refers to 17:32:06 Was a stepdown added to the dex/EV math in the current trunk? 17:32:20 i assume it refers to the paranoid android marvy 17:32:25 or whatever he's called 17:32:34 marvin, from hitchiker's guide :) 17:32:34 DrPraetor: yes 17:32:38 ah yes 17:32:51 read those books when i was younger 17:33:16 @dpeg - this change is going into 0.6 but the proportional->linear EVP reduction is not :(? 17:33:52 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 17:37:02 DrPraetor: the stepdown was *much* more important 17:37:20 it was pretty easy to get 70+ ev 17:37:25 without the stepdown 17:39:02 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:36 which would surely have brought joy to the masses! 17:39:41 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:36 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:30 doy: yes, thanks for tackling the runaway EV so promptly. 17:54:03 I rather enjoyed having an EV of 70. 17:56:57 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:59 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:45 Are blade hands considered "blades" for stabbing purposes? 18:06:22 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:35 DrPraetor: no 18:07:42 DrPraetor: they're 100% unarmed 18:11:07 Yay, tiles are inoperative: "Failed to set video mode: Couldn't find matching GLX visual" 18:13:55 Anyway, if we want (for thematic reasons) for Blade Hands to merge rings, they could be blades (but not daggers) for purposes of stabbing. 18:14:41 This has all kinds of interesting potential with regards to evap and confusing touch. Tm would be quite synergistic with stabbing if you could use it at all. 18:15:41 ok, orb run page updated 18:15:59 the problem is, Tm is currently married to unarmed and unarmed only 18:16:17 kilobyte: yes, but that should eventually change. 18:16:25 The Tm idea allows so much more. 18:16:49 Personally, I would like to see it stay a close-combat-magic path, but yeah. 18:17:21 For starters, the various short-range zap spells (Flame Tongue, Static Discharge) could 1) not suck and 2) easily be Tm instead of Cj. 18:18:12 You could also have spells that turn arrows into things, and make an entire secondary Arcane Archer path with Tm instead of En. 18:18:21 DrPraetor: but why? 18:19:03 Just because it would make sense. Personally I'd prefer to keep Tm as a close-combat path. 18:19:05 afaik Freeze doesn't suck 18:19:14 Ah, that's true. Freeze is pretty good, actually. 18:19:15 no, it doesn't 18:19:26 But flame tongue is ass. 18:19:42 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:44 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:40 Once we have more interesting monsters, we will also have more (options for) interesting forms. 18:23:46 ... ugly thing form? I agree we need more forms that wield weapons. 18:24:04 I thought the list of new forms I came up with was, at least, interesting. 18:24:48 Is there a suitable monster with reaching? 18:25:02 crawl is so great and there's so much room for improvement... soon it will become the greatest game that no one's heard about! 18:25:25 ortoslon: no one heard about? 18:25:42 hyperbole 18:26:25 Well, Crawl is still in the growing phase. 18:28:35 turning into a tentacled monstrosity would be interesting, and the tentacles would make sense for reaching 18:28:46 Mu_: awesome! 18:29:08 reaching, constriction, apportation :P 18:29:14 i'd also like to see a wolf type of form, because it seems like werewolves are the classical transmuters 18:29:33 Mu_: true, but we don't have werwolf monsters at the moment. 18:29:47 And we don't want to copy the Nethack template, I guess. 18:29:51 !seen bhaak 18:29:52 I last saw bhaak at Tue Mar 16 09:29:30 2010 UTC (14h 22s ago) saying dont you live in Europe? do you need to travel outside? on ##crawl-dev. 18:30:28 we do have wolves, it could be an animal form like spider i suppose. could grant a sort of short-range telepathy, like tracking by scent. 18:31:07 I like it more if the forms are ... stranger. Like tentacled monstrosity, that's beautiful :) 18:31:36 My suggestion was a "tentacles" secondary tmutation (like stoneskin), which added tentacles to your existing form. 18:31:46 Actually this was ernonarns suggestion, originally. 18:32:04 But turning into an X with lots of tentacles would also work. 18:32:05 But why a mutation when we want to increase Tmig's appeal? 18:32:23 Not saying tentacles make a bad mutation, but that'd not help with forms. 18:34:04 03kilobyte * r1dfc7ac0dc10 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): A tile for Cerebov's crack. UNTESTED. 18:34:35 Does Tmig train when you kill in some form? 18:35:07 nope 18:35:12 tiles somehow don't work for me -- I get randomly an error at startup, semi-normal load but then all-white play area with 100% CPU use, or an undrawn window with 100% CPU 18:35:18 I think it should. 18:35:35 kilobyte: did it work at some point for you? 18:35:43 Or is this your first stab at tiles? 18:35:49 yeah, but with a different graphics card 18:36:06 Ah. You should tell Enne and Johanna. 18:37:02 (I just had to pull out my Nvidia and switch to integrated, the card was broken and caused insane screen flicker while there's a rock stable screen on integrated) 18:38:57 @dpeg - I don't find I have a lot of trouble training Tmig. You end up casting Tm spells fairly often. 18:39:20 !dump 18:39:20 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/DrPraetor/DrPraetor.txt 18:39:28 i liked eronarn's idea of tmig facets or whatever 18:39:34 It's the principle of the thing: the form is your weapon, so if you kill using a form, you should also train Tmig. 18:39:36 i imagine it'd somewhat appease the people who've been complaining about not being able to victory dance fulsome :P 18:39:42 doy: which is? 18:39:43 so you could have a body transformation, and then transformations for various body parts and such too 18:39:55 and yeah, would promote using forms 18:39:59 No, it won't! Victory dancing fulsome is to train *necromancy*. 18:40:08 Ero will *always* go for a comlicated solution :) 18:40:14 aha, well it's neither now :P 18:40:19 basically, have transformations line up with equipment slots 18:40:24 Actually, ernonarn's solution *could* be fairly simple. 18:40:26 dpeg: i think it would work well though 18:40:38 Each form-changing spell either changes your glyph or doesn't (you can only have one of these.) 18:40:38 because you could decide what slots you want to give up 18:40:44 for the various transformations 18:40:56 doy: so you need to flesh it out. Seriously, you can be inspired by Eronarn -- he has good ideas. But someone needs to flesh them out in a ... sane way :) 18:41:03 Then, other form-changing spells "occupy" various slots (which may or may not also be allowed items), and can be stacked from there. 18:41:04 (: 18:41:19 DrPraetor: yeah, the 'form changing' one would be the body armour slot 18:41:34 It's so funny, Johanna made the Fulsome change solely for interface reasons. 18:41:35 So, for example, the Tentacles morph precludes your cloak slot and can't be used with any form that has wings or otherwise no cloak. 18:41:45 you mean you couldn't transform into a spider with a shark jaw and tentacles? :( 18:41:57 Bah. Jpeg secretly hates me, we all know this. 18:42:03 doy: this could lead to a lot of pre-combat casting, though. 18:42:25 dpeg: well, i'm also curious if the way that forms casting works could stand to be changed 18:42:48 @dpeg - more than you have now? RMSl, Swiftness, Blade Hands... charge! 18:42:56 something like "permanent until dismissed, but casts from maxmp" or something 18:43:03 doy: yes 18:43:09 dpeg: the proposex mechanic would have extension-y effects limited to formchangimg only. 18:43:15 doy: we should do that first, for all (or almost all) buffs. 18:43:37 someone proposed that for summoning, but i didn't like it there as much 18:43:45 it fits with tmig stuff a lot better 18:43:46 so you would not need to keep recasting all 18:44:26 doy: it fits with 'bonded' summons like familiars imo. 18:44:45 Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that it's easier to find new, strange and strong pure forms, rather than a set of attractive hand mutations, say. 18:44:52 EroN1: and if crawl had summoning spells like that, i'd agree d: 18:45:15 dpeg: agree, and pure forms are easier to balance, too 18:45:22 yes, there's that 18:45:40 But the casting from maxmp is a good idea and should be tried for some buffs. 18:45:49 doy: what about changing, let's say, Canine Familiar, that way? 18:45:50 but yeah tmig could stand to be a much more fluid playstyle imo. the options you have atm don't play nice with each other 18:46:34 If we switch over to the perm-until-dismiss mechanic for form changing, then we'd need to train Tm while shifted, yeah. 18:46:38 Probably constantly, ala stealth? 18:46:40 Tmig could definitely reach out more into the elements, imo. 18:47:01 DrPraetor: Stealth is not trained passively anymore. Thank god 18:47:03 dpeg: total tranforms have their place but partial ones are very cool from a flavor perspective 18:47:28 maxmp cost would have to be smaller than current mp one since you regain the MP in a tiny fraction of the time duration takes 18:47:30 people LOVE blade hands 18:47:39 I like statue form, spider form etc more than blade hands. The hands always look so powergamey to me :) 18:47:55 well they are broken good 18:47:56 EroN1: they love them b/c it's overpowered. 18:48:00 blade hands are *cool*, regardless of the fact that they're stupidly good 18:48:14 but this is separate from them being cooo 18:48:21 Whereas all the other forms combine advantage with drawback. 18:48:26 yeah xactly. 18:48:36 yeah 18:49:00 With the shoals, there could be a properly amphibious form. 18:49:14 Blade Hands hamper spellcasting a bit, but way too little to be noticeable. 18:49:27 kilobyte: good point, that could be increased. 18:49:30 dpeg: blade hands could stand to lose many current options eg wands pots. 18:49:37 yes 18:49:48 right, no wands would be nice 18:50:22 i would like a turtle form: AC reach amph. 18:50:23 but probably most other forms should lose wands use since you have no way to grab them well 18:51:10 kilo: dragons can open doors at least :) 18:51:13 "cheap jerseys", oh wow! 18:51:13 due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:51:20 EroN1: Only Xtahua? 18:51:21 due: Hallo! 18:51:22 !messages 18:51:22 (1/2) dpeg said (5h 56m 50s ago): My first real, working trove today! It yielded more money than it cost, though (plus it had a scroll of acquirement). I still suggest to get rid of (a) the option to buy yourself in, (b) no gold should ever be placed in vaults as * or | item (not just for troves). 18:51:34 !messages 18:51:34 (1/1) dpeg said (5h 56m 35s ago): Also, someone recently had a trove which asked for a spellbook which was in a shop, but the player already had from Vehumet. Acceptable? 18:51:38 spider could drink pots with a proboscis 18:51:38 EroN1: yeah, I just don't see how the door could be useable after being opened by a dragon :p 18:51:47 due: These are not for 0.6, just feedback. 18:52:07 dpeg: The latter is acceptable; but it can be tweaked for 0.7. I'm thinking of checking the stash tracker for books specifically, because if you alreayd have it, then why would you buy it from a shop? 18:52:20 due: yes 18:52:24 exactly 18:53:05 there's a bit of discussion about wand/scroll/potion use at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:cat 18:53:19 due: given that everybody seems to win these days, including developers, I reckon that the game is still too easy. 18:53:21 i think regardless of how many forms we have smooth transition between them is the key to making trans more fun 18:53:44 yes 18:54:07 using a potion with no hands is relatively easy, using scrolls too. But wands, not so much. 18:54:16 shapeshifters in crawl change rapidly, as do many in superhero fiction 18:54:19 one of the issues with the current set of forms is that each form has different slot restrictions and such, which makes getting a set of armour together is tough 18:54:48 if you could concentrate on, say, hand and head transformations, it would be a lot smoother 18:54:49 and fantasy rpg advs *are* superheroes 18:55:17 doy: doesn't melding help with the armour issues? 18:55:45 changing into a variety of forms to meet changing situations is much cooler a shtick than one form per branch 18:56:21 melding is a great first step 18:57:14 but your resistances and such are still jumping all over the place 18:57:26 EroN1: you can cancel or switch forms at any time anyway 18:57:26 The current forms try this: ice form for rC, spider form to run away... it is very hard to obtain *actual* flexibility (as opposed to a lot of choices, of which players will only pick the select few) -- I know what I'm talking about, I fell into this trap quite often. 18:57:31 one armor issue that remains tho is resists 18:58:38 Does Blade Hands turn off rings? 18:58:43 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:52 dpeg: not yet 18:59:00 kilo: this is like not using a spell vs an enemy, when more fun for that spellcaster is encouraging a different one 18:59:00 kilobyte: do you agree it could? 18:59:05 but it indeed could be a viable nerf, yeah 18:59:25 theres still a weapon melding bug on the current cdo 0.6, i just noticed i have 62 int from casting blade hands while wielding a spear with int 18:59:45 I am not sure how up-to-date CDO is ... didn't Robert fix this? 18:59:50 i thought so 19:00:03 maybe it just hasnt been updated since then 19:00:24 yeah, i'm going to update tonight 19:00:29 i've been busy the past couple days 19:00:34 ok cool 19:04:22 doy: you still didn't say yes or no to 2e7cf33f/0533438f, it's needed to avoid shipping fonts in Debian/... packaging. 19:05:44 sleep for reals 19:05:58 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 19:51:45 !messages 19:51:45 (1/4) Cryp71c said (1w 6d 6h 15m 23s ago): Hey, thinking about getting started on the DS code changes, wanted to check with you to make sure it was alright and that you hadn't already gotten some of it done....or, conversely, if you wanted it done in a particular fashion. 19:51:48 !messages 19:51:48 (1/3) Napkin said (1w 6d 4h 14m 48s ago): oh? what client do you use? which messages don't thread? 19:51:49 !messages 19:51:49 (1/2) Cryp71c said (1w 6d 3h 31m 58s ago): two sets of scales (MUT_BLACK_SCALES and MUT_METALLIC_SCALES) are listed as tier 3 mutations in _demon_facets[], which seems like a huge waste, since even +10 ac still isn't akin to the other tier 3 mutations. Furthermore, MUT_BLACK_SCALES appears as a tier 2 and tier3 mutation 19:51:51 !messages 19:51:51 (1/1) Cryp71c said (5h 41m 58s ago): I'm getting you a new patch for DS Spiny that doesn't have trailing whitespace. 19:52:45 !tell Cryp71c +10 AC is supposed to be a tier 3 mutation. If the others are better, they're overpowered 19:52:46 sorear: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 19:53:31 !tell Napkin mutt 1.5.17+20080114, the mantis bug updates, but it doesn't matter I have a workaround 19:53:32 sorear: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 19:53:47 !tell Cryp71c Why are you sending *me* these patches? 19:53:47 sorear: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 19:58:26 +10 AC sounds pretty great for a tier 3 mut 19:58:47 isn't the 3rd ice mut that, but with the downside of losing it with fire damage? 19:59:26 oh i guess the other new scales are comparably good too 19:59:55 03kilobyte * rb4fccc77727f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hiscores.cc hiscores.h): Don't crash on unknown species in the score file. Don't trample such scores, nor any with unknown fields. 20:03:20 the +10 ac ice mut melts if you cast fire yourself too :( 20:11:10 yeah :( 20:22:07 Altar of Jiyva right outside slime pit, was this added recently? 20:23:14 it's a random entry vault 20:23:24 -!- aslakkar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:45 -!- aslakkar has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:25 -!- karmatic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:02 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:48 mm. I have sustain abilities and then drank a degen potion and lost one int. Intented? 20:49:18 yes, sustain abilities just cuts stat loss by half 20:49:42 rounded down, so it prevents most stat loss, since most stat loss is one at a time 20:49:50 but degen potions are like d4 or something 20:53:31 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:49 ohh yeah that reminds me, i made a patch that gives sustain abilities two dots on the character info screen, should i post it on mantis? 20:54:04 That is where patches go. 20:54:14 :P 20:54:23 i made it then forgot to post it a while ago i think :( 20:55:11 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:15 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:47 Halloooo Enne. 21:12:54 Howdy howdy! 21:18:31 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:44 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:50 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:02 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:41:20 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51:51 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:24 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:03:11 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:41 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:27 Give Sust.Abil two potential dots on the character info screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1084) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 22:21:16 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:53 morning all 22:26:28 -!- Eronarn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:14 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:54 -!- Eronarn has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:59:55 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:41 -!- Eronarn has quit [Client Quit] 23:05:25 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: zzz] 23:05:30 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:03 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:44:36 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:38 Ola 23:44:39 Cryp71c: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 23:44:42 !messages 23:44:42 (1/2) sorear said (3h 51m 56s ago): +10 AC is supposed to be a tier 3 mutation. If the others are better, they're overpowered 23:44:54 !messages 23:44:54 (1/1) sorear said (3h 51m 7s ago): Why are you sending *me* these patches? 23:45:03 sorear, you there?