00:29:31 -!- pointless_ has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 00:31:42 -!- nrook has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:34:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:57 Mephitic cloud travels further with Shift+Dir (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=582) by jedwardh 00:50:02 Morning! 00:50:03 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:51:03 Heya Eino 00:51:21 Hi! Looks like ircnet has a bot named Henzell too. 00:51:54 Cool! 00:52:02 Also, I updated the tiles builld 00:52:05 This seems to have fixed it. 00:53:06 Thanks! Maybe we need to update who you can contact on that page? :) 00:53:13 That Henzell didn't have any messages for me btw. 00:53:42 Aw, poor other Henzell! 00:53:47 and yes, maybe we should. 00:53:55 Currently filling tow interface FRs :) 00:54:25 ..we have towing now? 00:54:33 ... two :) 00:55:49 it only shows the first ring when it asks you which one to replace 00:56:07 Filling as in implementing? 00:56:28 Yeah 00:56:55 I've done {was cursed} inscriptions 00:57:06 and just finished portal vaults' messages being automatically added to the travel stoppers list 01:04:10 03due * r942ab6b6d0b9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/clua/lm_tmsg.lua l_crawl.cc): Lua wrapper for travel_stoppers, auto-add portal vault messages. 01:04:21 03due * r7a9b696ee806 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Option to inscribe items being uncursed as "was cursed". 01:11:24 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:52 -!- neunon is now known as Guest44222 01:11:52 03due 07wizlab * rb42847f0e181 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Fix Hellbinder's name, remove lava. 01:11:54 03due 07wizlab * rb1fd1d21f6e2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Use door_restrict in the Borgnjor WizLab. 01:12:01 44222, nicenumber. 01:14:39 due: Nnnice. 01:16:34 how about "was cursed" only as long as you don't see the precise values? 01:16:48 only usable for weapons though, huh? 01:17:09 "was cursed" would also be nice for jewelry that you don't ID scrolls for at that moment 01:17:10 No, any cursed item. 01:17:13 and it's an option. 01:17:18 <3 01:17:31 ok 01:17:56 -!- Guest44222 has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:16 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:03 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:30:10 hey a shaft can drop you down to vault 8? 01:30:37 I think so 01:30:45 -!- Turbo has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:30:46 A shaft took me to Elf:7 once, into the chamber 01:33:29 03due * ra3fe300c4b1f 10/crawl-ref/source/l_dgnit.cc: Fix item_pickup Triggerables (elliptic). 01:33:31 03due * r86b4029fb5cc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (hells.des tomb.des zot.des): Use KMASK no_item_gen to prevent Triggerable issues. 01:37:18 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:12 hey mu 01:41:24 Any Wizlab polishes you'v ecmoe up with? 01:41:28 * due working on the cigotuvi monster. 01:41:34 dpeg wants him to die in a huge cloud of mutagenic fog :) 01:43:45 heh 01:43:58 -!- syllogism has quit [] 01:45:39 well i don't think "'s Lair" is much of a milestone, it'd be nice if it still printed like 'xx entered the Lair of Xyz the Cloud Mage' 01:45:58 Sure 01:46:18 maybe name the actual wizards like that too 01:46:26 Hm. 01:47:34 should prolly give the wizards descriptions too 01:47:43 i think loot in all of the wizlabs needs going over 01:47:45 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:11 hey adam 01:48:19 Descriptions++ 01:48:22 Loot definitely 01:48:31 the early ones are quite balanced 01:49:19 -!- mspang has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:24 ??mantis 01:49:24 mantis[1/2]: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/ 01:49:33 mspang: File an issue there and mark it with "has patch". :) 01:49:35 If you're feeling very lazy 01:49:45 You can paste a link to it here and I can look over it 01:50:13 testing it now 01:50:30 I play crawl on a PS3 and trunk just crashes 01:50:33 What's it for? 01:50:36 Ah 01:51:03 it takes a while to compile on a ps3 ;-) 01:51:03 There was an issue with turnk tiles builds just crashing as well, but according to purge, this has been fixed when I updated the tiles builds. 01:51:07 (Tiles and windows only) 01:51:07 :) 01:51:16 Cool, though! 01:51:25 What was the crash? 01:51:38 segfault 01:51:43 during startup 01:51:57 hm, odd 01:52:06 and the patch? 01:52:13 you used "char" and expected it to be signed 01:52:15 I changed it to signed 01:52:29 hm 01:52:30 somebody did rather 01:52:38 but like I said it's compiling 01:54:04 yeah 01:54:06 you're right 01:54:12 which char? :) 01:54:26 for you.inv 01:54:32 ah, nasty. 01:54:42 it doesn't compare equal with -1 01:54:52 and an invalid pointer is returned through you.weapon() 01:54:54 isn't inv a fixed_vector? 01:54:59 yes 01:55:01 Er. 01:55:03 it's full of 255s 01:55:09 oh, odd 01:55:15 I thought it was an item_def vector 01:55:43 nope, chars 01:55:49 the defs are somewhere else 01:56:01 FixedVector< item_def, ENDOFPACK > inv; 01:56:03 that one? 01:56:23 apparently I lied 01:56:26 the one with chars 01:56:28 lemme find it 01:56:30 heh 01:56:31 equip? 01:56:42 yeah 01:56:46 FixedVector equip; 01:56:49 yeah, equip 01:57:07 Hitting player.h takes forever and a millenium 01:57:13 THAT one is full of 255 since it's unsigned on ppc 01:57:18 Yeah 01:57:24 Thanks! 01:57:34 Have you got a git-format-patch patch that I can apply? 01:57:48 one second 01:58:32 PS3 as in PlayStation 3? :-o 01:58:47 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:47 dpeg's long gone, right? 01:59:00 hello 01:59:00 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:59:10 !messages 01:59:10 (1/1) doy said (7h 33m 50s ago): that helped a decent amount (it's about twice as fast as before), but still nowhere near 0.5 speeds/: 01:59:17 Keskitalo: yep 02:00:33 https://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~mspang/0001-Use-signed-char-for-equip.patch 02:00:35 I still haven't tested it 02:00:40 it seems to be recompiling everything 02:00:49 on terrain.o 02:01:09 henryci: there's nothing in the coding conventions against documenting your functions 02:01:45 mspang: Very nice. :) 02:01:46 Henzell: Yeah, long gone. 02:01:58 mspang: player.h is included in 99% of crawl files 02:01:59 Hi Rob! 02:02:07 henryci: Yes, dpeg's gone. 02:02:12 mspang: Thank you! I will apply it. 02:02:16 due: makes sense 02:02:18 Keskitalo: hi 02:02:24 Commenting the functions would be very very nice. :) 02:03:04 Comment especially if it's unclear 02:03:25 But there's no convention against it. :) 02:04:01 Our minihealthbars actually lacked communication about how it should behave; jpeg's bugfix changed the intended behaviour. Should've been in a comment, I think we'll fix that today with felirx. :) 02:04:02 I think we should do doxygen-style function documentation actually, for functions that are exported 02:04:16 might want to hold off on applying that, it still doesn't work 02:04:17 by: That would be really nice. 02:04:27 mspang: :( 02:04:45 by: Yes, we talked how nice that would be with felirx. :) Comment at the beginning of the function, explaining it.. 02:04:46 mspang: Still needs to be applied, though. 02:04:57 The other thing that wouldbe nice would be Lua function documentation. 02:05:06 I discussed this with Enne, but we couldn't come up with any sane or easy way to do it. 02:05:49 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 02:06:49 wait 02:06:50 I recompiled 02:06:54 There are probably other instances of char being compared to -1 that I can think of. 02:06:56 again. and it worked 02:06:59 Hooray! 02:07:01 but only player.o was compoiled 02:07:05 I dunno what happened 02:07:07 Odd. 02:07:10 I clearly did someing insane while it was building 02:07:25 anyway, I can play on the PS3 now >.> 02:07:28 Heh 02:07:49 Pushed, thank you! 02:07:58 03mspang * r066adbb1b7d7 10/crawl-ref/source/player.h: Use signed char for player::equip. 02:09:37 What's our threshold for adding someone to cREDITS/ 02:11:17 Low. 02:11:25 Does that constitute? 02:11:29 Yes. :) 02:11:38 :) 02:11:54 mspang: Let us know if you run into any other issues with PPC! 02:12:00 03due * r81f01216f7d5 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Add mspang to the credits. 02:12:28 due: will do 02:12:39 mspang: Thanks! 02:12:41 there are 5-6 people who play on it (it's in the university machine room) 02:13:03 all it does it run crawl and to a lesser extend nethack 02:13:08 mspang: Awesome! :D 02:13:14 Awesome!! 02:13:35 03due * r859237a79512 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/volcano.des: Tweak Volcano exit description. 02:13:41 mspang: Is it difficult to install if you already have Linux on the machine? 02:14:13 (I have a friend with such setup. He said there's not much software to run on it. :)) 02:14:25 we have ubuntu on there 02:14:30 so... plenty of software 02:14:34 but not many that uses the SPUs 02:15:40 Ah, I see. He told me that a while ago, it might have changed - or he might have meant *interesting* software. :P 02:15:57 In a PS3-specific way, or something. But Crawl definitely is interesting! :)) 02:16:04 due: I got into CREDITS for a one-line change to levdes.vim 02:16:58 everyone who has ever patched Crawl is in there, except Johnny 'cryo_' Shelly and maybe others in similar circumstances 02:17:13 he declined? 02:17:34 he asked to be taken out after becoming disillusioned with the dev process 02:17:47 AM was his baby and he didn't like the changes that were made to it 02:19:59 mspang: How's the coffee room highscore list btw? :) 02:20:10 err 02:20:13 machine room 02:28:02 sorear: Heh, I haven't seen him since the last batch of changes I made to AM. 02:28:11 But I think it is a wholly more rounded class now. 02:29:00 Does anyone know the stash code well enough to write a wizmode function that adds the contents of a level to the tracker? 02:30:01 Keskitalo: Is mspang with your group? 02:31:28 Isn't .ca = Canada? 02:31:34 Whereas .fi = Finaldn? 02:32:16 Finaldn? 02:32:28 That sounds like a cool place to live. 02:36:51 .ca is canada, .fi is finland, and you would not beleive how many people think .de is denmark 02:37:59 sorear: No, he's not. 02:38:30 due: Finaldn sounds like a good name for a unique. :) 02:46:35 Ooh. 02:46:37 Finaldin. 02:46:52 Fineldynn! ;) 02:47:00 sorear: Ahahahahaha, .de is germany! 02:47:07 Denmark is what, dn? dm? 02:47:26 dk? 02:47:59 Ah, .dk! 02:50:56 Eek, someone should do an ice cave with snowy trees. 02:51:02 Ooh, good idea. 02:53:01 and Santa as a unique? 02:53:46 -!- st_ has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:53:46 -!- doy has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:19 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:19 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:25 purge: Are you on? I added some feedback on the snake rune submission. 02:57:31 yeah i am on 02:58:10 It's really good minus the style discrepancy. 02:59:07 By which I mean how it looks "rendered" rather than "pixeled" - "Diablo" versus "Crawl" actually. :) 02:59:34 I wonder (talking completely cluelessly here) if style discrepancy might be a good thing, used tastefully 02:59:47 in ASCII we recently gave runes elemental colors 02:59:51 Does anybody know where the find code (ctrl+f) lives? 02:59:58 this makes them look completely unlike 'ordinary' items 02:59:59 -!- Giomancer has joined ##Crawl-Dev 03:00:09 and it's been a quite positive change 03:01:03 sorear: We could do a similar special effect in Tiles. 03:01:11 Would anyone like to code up a particle engine? :D 03:01:22 Keskitalo: I'm wondering if rendered tiles *is* a good special effect 03:01:41 it's unique but not *too* jarring, looking at purge's screenshot anyway 03:01:49 henryci: stash.cc maybe? 03:01:51 I don't think it would. 03:02:00 henryci: The 'Search for What?' text is in there anyway 03:02:09 Keskitalo: Ah, oh well 03:03:52 henryci: It's stash.cc, I'm pretty sure. 03:07:07 It is stash.cc. Still getting a feel for what's where. 03:07:35 trying to determine the best way to determine if a given alter is reachable. 03:07:43 Heh. 03:07:47 The stair changing code for monsters? 03:07:48 files.cc. 03:08:09 henryci: There should be something in the travel code for "is_reachable_pos" 03:11:08 due you'd think so. 03:12:13 There is code for it though. 03:12:19 I think the best way is to use travel_pathfind 03:12:27 which returns info about the path to get to a given spot 03:12:35 and if the path is less than 0 it's unreachable. 03:12:52 Keskitalo: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=214&type=bug 03:12:55 henryci: If you could figure a way to sort the Ctrl-F list by distance on the level you're on, that'd be sweet :) 03:13:07 Twinge: It should be sorted by that? 03:13:30 I like the pixelated more. 03:13:41 It's not already sorted by total distance to each? 03:14:14 I was pretty sure it was. 03:17:41 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:30 due: It isn't unless it was changed just recently. I'm referring to distance from you even for stuff on the same level, so it should show stuff next to you first and stuff across the lvel later 03:20:33 -!- Giomancer has quit ["ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!"] 03:20:57 Huh. 03:21:02 I thoguht it did. 03:21:11 It's doable though. 03:21:19 Just need to sort by distance between you.pos() and item.pos() 03:21:40 I'll double check real quick, but it annoyingly didn't last time I wanted to, and that was only ~2 weeks ago or so on trunk 03:22:06 can_travel_to :) 03:23:00 Twinge: I've got a reasonable handle on the travel code now. If it doesn't sort, bug me about it after I submit the overmap stuff and I can do it. 03:24:47 afaik, it's sorted only by distance == number of stairs you need to take 03:24:58 Okay. Just double checked, it doesn't sort. At least for a '.' search 03:24:58 by: Ahhh. 03:25:06 Twinge: Oh, hey, can you do something for me? 03:25:13 Perhaps? =) 03:25:52 Eh, never mind, I'm being too lazy. :) 03:26:07 is there any highscore for CDO? 03:26:14 another thing on my travel/autoexplore wish-list: don't try to move to unvisited squares, but try to get in view of unseen squares 03:26:44 by: That would be nice. 03:26:56 No complaints on today's glyph changes? :) 03:28:32 Copying a possible issue from SA forums - 03:28:32 Is there a way to assign your butchering tool besides just hitting 'c' for the first time? 03:28:32 I ask because I am playing a lot of Demonspawn and like half of them get sharp fingernails. This mutation automatically decides that using their hands is the best way to butcher, and this forces me to remove my randart gloves everytime I butcher. If I get interrupted I always forget to reequip them until I notice I'm 4AC lower than normal. I'd rather just use a knife and keep my gloves on. 03:28:44 * due unsure. 03:29:08 Then again, that won't be an issue anymore if we get rid of most of the butchering tedium anyway 03:30:30 twinge, I already bugreported it 03:30:58 cbus - stable and oldstable and dev each should have a highscore file of its own 03:31:06 is it empty again? 03:31:22 dunno where to find it :) 03:36:02 Keskitalo: Sorry :(( 03:36:19 cbus: Ah okay 03:36:34 Keskitalo: I killed purgy :( 03:38:21 Bad due! 03:38:33 Purgy should be especially weak against pacification. ;) 03:38:34 napkin, not linked on the page (or I've missed it) 03:38:38 Twinge: Strictly speaking, there is no 'assigning a butchering tool' - the game automatically picks any known-uncursed safe item 03:39:03 due: I've actually seen Sewer milestones for Purgy, so the weight thing seems to be working. 03:39:05 twinge, syllogism told me something like "soon you won't be able to use gloves" :) 03:39:12 Keskitalo: Yeah, it's great 03:40:04 I see 03:44:02 purge: Thanks, especially the brown one looks a much better fit now! 03:44:30 purge: In the grey one, the rune itself on the item is hard to see. 03:44:59 But the brown one looks really good! 03:45:18 cool 03:45:25 well only 1 can be used anyways! 03:45:36 I like the brown one. 03:45:59 purge: Yeah, I think we can go ahead with the brown one. 03:46:10 Keskitalo: it can always be changed heh 03:46:17 or improved further 03:50:27 no, not linked anymore, cbus 03:51:01 but greensnark and rax are planning to enhance the stats pages on CAO with dev-versions too 03:52:18 ahh ok 03:52:30 due: re glyph changes, I kind of like earth elementals on #, but would like them to have wall-like properties, too, which is not currently balancable 03:53:03 due: also, fire elementals as monstrous clouds is not that far off I think 03:53:20 so many "Partly explored, can't reach some places." in Lair suddenly 03:53:48 there is no easy way to find out which place auto-explore is talking about.. right? 03:56:57 // Randomise to make counting off monster moves harder 03:57:05 in _monster_add_energy 03:57:22 unfortunately, there's nothing random there if you're normal speed or the monster is normal speed 03:59:02 what do you think of putting a + random2(3) - 1 in there? 03:59:17 why? 03:59:24 aka 1/3 chance of -1, 1/3 chance of 0, 1/3 chance of +1 for monster energy each move 03:59:40 does it have to be random? 04:00:21 it's currently entirely predictable if monster->speed * you.time_taken is a multiple of 10, but not otherwise 04:00:33 that's ugly 04:01:00 ja - isn't that good? 04:02:42 -!- henryci has quit [] 04:03:18 by: Sure, but having monsters are feature glyphs is problematic and confusnig. 04:03:32 I think earth elementals should have the rock worm behaviour of walking through walls. 04:03:48 due: I agree re problematic 04:04:01 by: +1 to randomising energy 04:04:05 greensnark! <3333 04:04:16 But maybe use random2avg(3,2) 04:04:17 :( 04:04:35 Afternoon due on the grass :) 04:04:39 Hi Napkin :) 04:04:49 hey greensnark :) 04:04:52 I'm only here for a bit :/ 04:05:00 ok, will give it a try; the obvious big impact would be on pillar dancing and on trying to escape to the staircase 04:05:08 has it not been tried before? 04:05:15 due: If earth elementals can walk through walls, you'll have to weaken them as well 04:05:18 do I get that this random2avg(3,2) too then? 04:05:22 by: It hasn't been tried 04:05:51 Napkin: random2avg(3,2) => roll 0-2 twice and take the average 04:06:16 that would be 2/3 0, 1/6 each for +- 1 I think 04:06:32 Napkin: the player speed wouldn't be randomized 04:06:35 Too little? 04:06:43 no idea, will try :) 04:06:48 i know my luck.. it'll mean the kobold will have 50 times +1 speed in a row... 04:06:50 Yeah, it may be too little 04:07:19 Ok, yoiu're right, we should stick with random2(3) and adjust it if monsters are lurching around too much 04:07:20 Napkin: I think the extra speed is tracked over rounds, so it will get an extra move at most every 10 moves I think 04:07:34 And for +1 enegy there shouldn't be issues 04:07:46 Do it :) 04:07:56 * Napkin bites the table * 04:08:10 * greensnark gives Napkin a gingerbread table. 04:08:30 This change will make my legendary worm dance risky, but risky is good :) 04:08:39 with my luck i'll bite the 1 stone found in 10 gingerbread tables anyways ;) 04:08:43 @?? worm 04:08:43 worm (04w) | Speed: 6 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Damage: 12 | Res: 06magic(13) | XP: 12. 04:08:48 no, not risky 04:09:46 it's play the dice 04:09:47 greensnark: Sure, I think so. 04:09:53 boooh! 04:09:59 But I think all the elementals should be on the same glyph so it makes sense. 04:10:03 What are we talking about randomisation? 04:10:10 Just for worms? 04:10:12 I like that. 04:10:14 For everything? 04:10:17 I'm not sure howot hat impacts. 04:10:21 For everything 04:10:25 It won't affect muchj 04:10:33 It will affect fast monsters. 04:10:41 Just movement energy, or all energy? 04:10:46 But anybody who's doing the step-hit-hit dance with Gastronok is going to be pleasantly surprised 04:10:49 All energy 04:10:56 I think that's too much. 04:11:02 It'll average out to nothing 04:11:15 And sometimes a hydra will get an extra bite out of you that you didn't expect? 04:11:20 Monsters normally get 10 energy per standard turn 04:11:27 Now it'll be 9/10/11 04:11:29 Hm. 04:11:31 Okay. 04:11:31 greensnark: random2avg isn't quite like that 04:11:42 sorear: I know it isn't quite like that 04:11:44 random2avg(3,2) is (0-2 + 0-3)/2 04:11:49 I'm not sure what this does 04:11:51 I was keeping it simple 04:11:59 Sure, okay. 04:12:03 What does the player get? :) 04:12:06 It does that to avoid roundoff causing uneven distribution in integer math 04:12:37 due: The player gets a slower monster 1/3 of the time :P 04:12:41 Heh. 04:12:48 Can we see it in a branch? 04:12:49 To compensate for them getting a faster monster 1/3 of the time :P 04:12:55 I had thought the predictability was a good thing in most cases - you have a solid base to plan from. If speed 10 vs speed 2 can randomly get in an extra hit that seems pretty awful honestly 04:12:55 no 04:12:57 No, I think it should be in master 04:13:00 Okay. 04:13:13 And it doesn't make a given monster faster or slower 04:13:18 er, speed 10 vs speed 10 04:13:24 Just a minor variation in the energy it gets per turnm 04:13:28 Yeah. 04:13:33 I was confused until you said energy. :) 04:14:02 Twinge: The crawl speed system uses sufficiently small numbers that, if you know the special cases, you can keep an exact mental model in your head 04:14:32 for now 04:14:33 Not like ADOM, where tracking CERs for multiple actors to three significant figures is unfeasable 04:14:43 I have no doubt more random will be added :-P 04:14:47 in Crawl, you don't have energy, and monster energy is 0-9 04:14:55 I don't think it'll have such a major impact on things. 04:15:06 so you only need one short term memory slot to game the speed system w/o notes 04:15:18 It'll have a minor impact on pillar dancing, but I think it may actually improve the scene there 04:15:42 I should try a nice DEMo or something 04:15:51 That would be good. 04:15:59 Also 04:16:01 Victory dancing. 04:16:06 We have to fix it. I am sick and tired of it. :/ 04:16:07 * greensnark goes back to work. 04:16:35 sorear: what do you think? might this work? 04:16:35 * sorear hahas at people in #adom: "Bad balance is part of the game, it's not a bug that should be fixed" 04:16:39 by: yes 04:17:23 Okay 04:17:32 "A nearby toadstool withers and dies." needs to be on the runurest ignore messages 04:17:35 Where are those? 04:17:45 settings/ 04:18:10 danke 04:18:24 Hm, they are on it. 04:19:22 03by * r78d78651f0be 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Randomise monster energy slightly. 04:19:24 03by * rb16aec54bbff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc mon-behv.cc): Debug tracking of calls to _set_nearest_monster_foe. 04:19:25 03by * r47e4f693b20b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Cosmetic. 04:19:26 03by * r868ab3306a9b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Don't set nearest monster foe for sleeping monsters. 04:19:41 argh, pushed too much :( 04:19:52 Whoops. 04:19:54 Don't you hate that? 04:19:58 -!- Eifel has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:09 by: Oh, are you playing around with setting of foes? 04:20:24 yes, that's one of the huge CPU wasters 04:20:33 aweosme 04:20:38 I think each sleeping monster currently gets it set three times per turn 04:20:42 Yeah 04:20:45 So do toadstools, I think 04:20:59 Someone is looking at alligators, but they should only get a foe in certain circumstances. 04:23:01 Oh bah 04:23:07 I could've used decomposition bah. 04:23:48 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:55 dpeg! 04:23:59 Hi! 04:24:11 due: 'i' for elementals 04:24:14 dpeg: :) 04:24:27 "I hope it is not controversial..." :P 04:24:34 * due laughs. 04:24:47 Eh, I was feeling reckless. 04:24:58 The glyph was empty, and it meant moving monsters off the same glyph as terrain and features. 04:26:57 It doesn't have to be 'i'. 04:27:20 didn't someone want to put monster spriggans on 'i'? no idea why, though 04:27:29 by: "sprggan". 04:27:46 I don't think that's going to happen before 0.7, though. 04:27:49 they should be 'g' 04:27:54 there's two g in there 04:28:08 tiny glyph for a tiny person 04:28:16 True. 04:28:18 ' 04:29:06 dpeg: I should've said "too controversial" :) 04:30:24 03by * r59f2772ef31b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Fix compile. 04:30:59 dpeg: anyway, is it an issue? 04:36:01 I usually don't care about this. 04:36:07 But it will cause an outcry :) 04:36:15 Do you disagree with the change? 04:36:26 and an outcry amongst the devs, or the players? 04:36:30 hm, I think that elementals on # is not such a bad idea 04:36:33 oh, players 04:36:39 I think elementals on # is very bad. 04:36:45 Elementals standing next to rock walls in a cloud. 04:36:49 and I would have solved the issue by giving elementals elemental colours 04:37:14 * due shrugs. 04:37:25 I like the change as it is, it looks nice, there's symmetry between them, and the colours seem to fit quite well. 04:37:31 We could change the colours again to be elemental colours. 04:37:36 which may require a keypress at times, but has the nice feature that earth elementals look a bit like walls, air elementals a bit like clouds etc. 04:37:41 but: shrug :) 04:38:36 :) 04:38:45 I've already had TGW complaining that crocodile is a bad monster name. 04:38:52 Well, alligator. Because alligators are a type of crocodile. 04:38:55 generally ignore 04:38:56 dpeg: re cheibriados: I don't care too much about how he should work; kilobyte and you both seem to have stronger opinions, so I think you should agree before I make more changes 04:39:10 by: it is generally hard to have kilobyte agree 04:39:13 And despite the fact that they are completely different colours, names and descriptions, he seems to think that people will *mistake them for each other*. 04:39:20 in particular, when he does not agree, as with Cheibriados 04:39:28 hmm 04:39:58 by: as I see it, the alternative is having on Cheibriados in 0.6, so I'd really like to give my proposal a try 04:40:00 Also, I love fedhas :) 04:40:11 We could also stage a new discussion, but I am wary of them. 04:40:30 dpeg: ok; I want to deal with the performance issues first, however 04:40:45 by: it is obvious (to me) that Chei can be made arbitrarily powerful, despite the conduct. I cannot estimate how much fun will result, though. 04:40:48 by: thank you. 04:41:12 As I said, I am willing to scrap Chei and start again if it's not fun enough. 04:41:14 dpeg: Anyway, I don't mind player controversy, I just kick them out and tellthem to complain to someone who cares :) 04:41:23 But currently, Chei is not strong enough. We don't need another Zin. 04:41:32 dpeg: Chei is interesting. I need to play him a bit more, but currently I'm doing Fedhas, who is *amazing*. 04:41:41 due: yes. Most devs are bad kickers, unfortunately. 04:41:47 The detail and the flavour and the power is really good. 04:41:51 Yes, Fedhas is a bomb. 04:41:53 It is all nicely balanced and *intersting*. 04:42:09 Charles is doing a really good job. 04:42:10 Jiyva is quite close, but probably because we don't have a dev specifically working on him (well, a dedicated dev-team member), he's missed out a bit. 04:42:19 charles is doing an amazing job, imo. 04:42:27 I am not fully convinced about the latest change to Evolution (it is a slight nerf), but that will be seen. 04:43:08 I really like it that the plant god filled the "hunter god" niche in such an indirect way. Much better than any of the hunter god proposals I've seen (including mine). 04:43:15 charles = pointless 04:43:17 Agree. 04:43:20 sorear: Yeah. 04:43:23 sorear: yes! 04:43:29 sorear: charles is shorter to type without tab complete when pointless is not here. 04:43:39 * due lazy. 04:43:41 :p 04:44:02 * Twinge was wondering who you were talking about ;) 04:44:19 I got no replies on the Armour/Dodging training, so I guess I have to take it to the wiki :/ 04:44:23 I'm having a really weird gdb issue with _monster_add_energy; upstairs, in _handle_monster_move, monster == 0x7ef0d4, downstairs, in _monster_add_energy, it's 0x30cd28 which is invalid 04:44:39 Confusingly, we have 2 davids 04:44:59 dpeg: Following IRC, the wiki, and Mantis is already too much for me; I don't really follow the newsletter :P 04:45:15 Twinge: it wasn't public. 04:45:22 0x7e40d4, oh, Windows 04:45:25 dpeg: 978291 suggested that kraken unsummon tentacles when fleeing, I am currently trying to implement this :) 04:45:37 due: yes, it is a good idea 04:45:38 sorear: mac 04:45:50 !killsby alligator 04:45:50 One game for * (ckiller=alligator): 1x polystyrus 04:45:54 :D!!!!!!!!!!11 04:45:59 !lg * killer=alligator 04:45:59 1. polystyrus the Nimble (L14 SpTm), worshipper of Makhleb, mangled by an alligator on Swamp:1 on 2010-01-26, with 58428 points after 33568 turns and 2:59:04. 04:46:03 !lg * killer=alligator x=dam 04:46:03 1. [dam=21] polystyrus the Nimble (L14 SpTm), worshipper of Makhleb, mangled by an alligator on Swamp:1 on 2010-01-26, with 58428 points after 33568 turns and 2:59:04. 04:48:11 dpeg, is orb of destruction worth the mana cost (compared to poison arrow)? 04:48:42 cbus: yes, :) 04:48:50 cbus: we nerfed poison arrow :D 04:49:32 it seems to do more than orb of destruction 04:49:35 tbh :) 04:52:54 IOOD is rather overpowered right now. 04:53:32 speed_increment is crazy -- so many magic numbers 04:54:32 Okay, so we can close the worm speed thing? 04:54:47 what is the worm speed thing? 04:55:01 TGW says we should give them action speed 10, move speed 6 or so. 04:55:55 can't say, would need to see if the change helps at all 04:56:15 I think it's a needless buff for an otherwise already powerful early game threat. 04:58:20 dpeg: I replied on the Donald page re: contentious speech. 04:58:59 !killsby worm cv>=0.5 04:59:05 2231 games for * (ckiller=worm cv>=0.5): 63x KiloByte, 45x crawlie, 45x Vesto, 38x TGW, 29x Tenaya, 28x oxeimon, 28x eben, 23x Chog, 23x DashNine, 22x Johan, 19x nmf, 18x Cryptic, 18x jejorda2, 17x mafalda, 17x nflftw, 16x ziropiro, 15x Manslay, 15x Leibowitz, 13x Kyrris, 13x Arival, 13x phyphor, 13x larasium, 13x Nikinyo, 13x Eifeltrampel, 12x Shane, 12x Stossel, 12x DEMON, 12x 9to, 11x stupidnub... 04:59:18 That is a lot of worm deaths 04:59:23 due: yes, I saw 04:59:38 Twinge: Exactly. 04:59:42 Twinge: I don't think they need a buff. 04:59:46 !killsby worm 04:59:47 5540 games for * (ckiller=worm): 89x crawlie, 86x KiloByte, 58x Vesto, 54x poop, 53x DashNine, 52x heteroy, 52x Chog, 50x Johan, 48x mr0t, 43x Archibald, 40x aori, 40x Nikinyo, 38x TGW, 37x Keolah, 36x silvan, 32x sorear, 31x Tenaya, 31x Anym, 30x chilliwack, 29x 78291, 28x Maurog, 28x ceb, 28x Shaijin, 28x oxeimon, 28x eben, 27x yap, 27x simul, 26x Lemuel, 26x Nexos, 25x Crackman, 24x aristotle, ... 04:59:48 due: I think the FR goes in the wrong direction. Worms etc. are boring because they are slow. 05:00:04 dpeg: Sure, but making them fast won't fix them. 05:00:06 We need less (or better designed) slow monsters. 05:00:09 due: yes. 05:00:18 less = fewer 05:00:30 Though I am goin gto make Gastronok simply slow with regards movement. 05:00:46 speed 10, delay 14 for move or whatever 05:00:50 slow monsters are rather boring indeed 05:01:17 many of them are no threat if one repeats the right sequence of movement and attacking, even 05:01:24 Zaba: yes, if you do it properly, you run in circles and throw something. This is why I say that better design may also help. 05:01:58 do monsters with BEH_SLEEP ever do anything? 05:02:05 due: I thought Gastro was pretty dang threatening already with haste/slow/airstrike even at full-on speed 5? 05:08:35 by: they walk around if confused 05:09:39 sorear: like butterflies? 05:09:52 yes 05:15:26 03by * rea724affe2f1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Shortcut main AI loop for sleeping monsters. 05:15:52 argh, another mis-push :( 05:16:17 He doesn't have haste. 05:17:56 03by * raddc7850ac0f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Revert "Shortcut main AI loop for sleeping monsters." 05:17:57 03by * re721eceb1dd6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc mon-behv.cc): Revert "Debug tracking of calls to _set_nearest_monster_foe." 05:19:21 The flavour of Fedhas is just so good, though. 05:19:26 The zmobies decaying into skeletons <3 05:21:37 due: that alligator kill was funny. He thought he was safe because he was a spriggan but the alligator kept pace with him lol 05:21:41 I am not sure anymore, who came up with the basic idea of the plant god? 05:21:52 dpeg: I'm not sure who, but it's great. 05:22:05 @?? alligator 05:22:05 alligator (12t) | Speed: 10 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | Health: 36-108 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Damage: 30, 15 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(48) | XP: 1089 | Sp: swiftness. 05:22:12 act? 05:22:15 actual? 05:22:23 "pick up its mycelia and move" :D 05:22:30 cbus: action speed. 05:22:40 cbus: So, it swims quickly, and it bites quickly, but it walks as fast as you. 05:22:48 Also, it can cast swiftness, so it becomes speed 12 or so. 05:23:11 ehhr, alligators cast swiftness? 05:23:11 wtf 05:23:20 lol 05:23:22 They put on a short burst of speed. 05:23:31 It doesn't last too long, and then they can't do it again because they're tired. 05:23:50 -!- Mu_ has quit ["Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place."] 05:24:01 hmm !apt should show races peed 05:24:08 peed? 05:24:10 oh 05:24:11 speed 05:24:21 pee colour ;) 05:28:00 Hooray for multiple hill giants 05:28:19 At least I finally figured out who invented the slime god. 05:28:24 Oh, who? 05:28:38 Cyrus 05:33:37 ah, due, we may need to tweak our unique generation formula 05:33:41 the penalty for placing additional uniques may be too low 05:33:54 bah 05:33:55 Okay 05:34:41 So, we should add an extra chance of failing if we've placed a unique? 05:35:55 -!- Zaba_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:39 Has anyone seen Cyrus since the hill dwarf era? 05:43:39 Heycool, a yaktaur skeleton 05:44:24 @whereis due 05:44:24 No where information for due (). 05:44:33 bookofjude :0 05:44:39 yeah i just realized 05:44:42 i have been up all night 05:44:43 :D 05:44:54 thinking is slower atm 05:46:14 @whereis bookofjude 05:46:15 bookofjude the Thaumaturge (L11 SpVM), a worshipper of Fedhas, is currently on D:12 after 19290 turns. 05:46:18 I killed it 05:48:30 -!- Zaba has quit [Connection timed out] 05:48:36 Guardian Spirit on Shield (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=583) by GidrA 05:51:01 ^ that is funny 05:53:27 why 05:53:30 just the bad english? 05:53:59 it's not suprising to me, there are a few hard-coded slot checks 05:58:55 sorear: its unexpected from my POV 06:12:27 -!- dpeg has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:12:27 -!- st_ has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:12:27 -!- doy has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:12:55 :| 06:12:57 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:57 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:22 Wb! 06:14:59 -!- purge has quit ["zzz"] 06:17:30 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:35 Ants nest again 06:17:46 due: :) 06:18:14 * due quietly plots to get back at zaba for them 06:18:45 I didn't do nuthin, as I think I've mentioned! 06:21:51 hmm, Enslavement power cap isn't shown properly 06:22:34 there's some step down so you actually need 100ish power to hit the true cap of 70, but the shown cap is 200 (or 150 actually) 06:24:03 sorear: yes, I've seen Cyrus once here. 06:24:33 dogs should do better against invisible monsters 06:24:50 by: don't they sense invisible? 06:24:56 syllogism: would you file the bug? 06:25:03 they do 06:25:23 not good enough? 06:25:39 0.7 target: redo invis. 06:25:42 it doesn't seem to work; my dogs happily let the elves beat them up 06:25:49 ah 06:25:55 friendly sense/see invis is borked, no? 06:32:39 apparently friendly see invis works fine, but sense invis doesn't 06:33:14 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:33:24 yeah 06:33:26 sense is bork 06:33:49 The actual Enslavement power cap not displayed properly (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=584) by syllogism 06:41:53 dpeg: next poll, also ask for putty. 5% use putty, Telnet on Win, almost nobody :) 06:45:37 and nethack.alt.org is also used a lot as $OS_OR_DEVICE :-) 06:46:13 I played CDO via hyperterminal on windows 06:46:26 Was bored and on a machine with no other telnet client 06:46:28 worked kinda okay 06:46:51 windows telnet doesn't work with crawl? 06:47:30 it does 06:47:42 windows telnet == hyperterminal? 06:48:32 due, nah 06:48:38 due, theres some telnet client for cmd.exe 06:48:42 oh 06:48:45 i didn't know that 06:48:52 its trash :) 06:48:58 but try it for the amusement if you like 06:48:58 :) 06:49:05 hyperterminal is amusing 07:05:22 -!- []J has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:04 03by * rd39370e68d65 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h monster.h player.h): const variants of actor::as_{monster,player} 07:07:07 03by * r6e62d3c888d6 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Allow monsters that sense invisible to see adjacent monsters. 07:07:09 03by * r00af2d7c5c9f 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Apply a similar "sense invisiblity" change to player visibility. 07:07:38 Does the scree nnot update during rest again? 07:07:57 due: if you could do a cdo update, that would greatly improve my SESu's chances in Elf :) 07:08:23 due: hmm, don't know re update 07:08:30 Heh 07:08:31 Okay 07:08:37 Let me commit these kraken changes 07:09:26 I don't think there was a change to shortcut viewwindow when resting 07:09:35 Well 07:09:42 It's changed very recently 07:09:55 Because resting with clouds on the screen, they don't go away until the resting finishes. 07:09:57 however, it's possible that we're just not refreshing because the messages cause fewer refreshs 07:10:21 does anything else change? health bar etc? 07:10:32 Tides don't 07:10:40 03due * rd42dd6456b6f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Kraken unsummon tentacles when fleeing. 07:11:05 what if you set travel_delay positive? (or is there a variant for resting?) 07:11:08 HP bar goes up 07:11:17 Ah, is it travel_delay? 07:11:21 That's the only thing I've changed recently. 07:11:24 don't know 07:11:49 Yeah, looks like it is. 07:11:50 Weird. 07:12:25 Do I get awards for most verbose commit messages? 07:12:56 by: updating 07:13:30 due: mine are more verbose this round 07:13:57 I usually find myself waffling. 07:14:48 crap 07:15:34 Why do I always do that? 07:15:43 Must be the disparity between MSGCH_WARN and "warning" forr lua 07:15:47 03due * rbfdd4530e9e1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Fix compilation. 07:19:08 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a1-2851-gbfdd453 (16.2) 07:20:25 -!- workimer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:48 * due goes on a closing spree. 07:28:12 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:03 due: your last commit appears to have reverted the _set_nearest_monster_foe change 07:31:33 Really? 07:31:38 Huh. 07:31:50 Oh, bah, I'm sorry. 07:31:54 Rill fix. 07:32:52 Had an old copy of mon-behv.cc open 07:32:56 Didn't notice :) 07:33:11 03due * re3e9abe064ec 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Revert "Fix compilation." 07:33:12 03due * rde8564995746 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Actually fix compilation. 07:33:37 thanks for updating 07:37:32 "Your warg bites it." :) 07:37:45 :D 07:38:35 -!- cbus has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:38:35 -!- Keskitalo has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:38:42 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:24 ...LOL 07:41:32 "artefaces", oh well :) 07:42:06 by: dealing with submerged stuff is incredibly grindy now. Instead of killing them, you have to wait until they heal and surface, and _then_ you may have another chance of perhaps killing them -- or not. 07:42:29 Yeah, submerging need sto go before 0.6 is released. 07:42:39 We could just disable submerging entirely. 07:44:32 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:50 sleepytime :) 07:45:51 night folk. 07:46:03 due: bye! 07:47:40 "Your warg bites it." <3 <3 <3 07:49:57 "Time to get a new warg" 07:50:28 Second-hand warg market isn't what it used to be 07:50:46 for sale! one warg, slightly used. only bitten once 07:51:38 -!- Timbermaw has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:57 03greensnark * r3e5fb3684b1e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/monsters.txt mon-pick.cc): Make top-tier merfolk rarer in the Shoals. 08:02:07 aw 08:02:20 I barely saw any 08:02:29 all throughout or just 1-4? 08:03:22 1-4 08:03:37 I plan to increase them a bit on Shoal:5 :P 08:03:54 I don't want to discourage players from diving into Shoals early :P 08:04:10 Although harpies+turtles do that pretty well :P 08:11:38 by: Thanks for fixing the slow-rest problem 08:13:13 03kilobyte * rb9210ede4374 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Unbreak spirit shield on shields. 08:14:07 greater nagas got a HUGE deal easier, with the poison arrow nerf 08:14:16 oops 08:14:23 wait, we nerfed monster poison arrow? 08:14:29 by did 08:14:35 don't do that d: 08:14:44 was supposed to just be for player i thought 08:14:58 03greensnark * rb92d5aa013cc 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-shoals.cc: The tide should not submerge runes in deep water, fixed. 08:15:26 The resistibility is handled the same way for both player and monster 08:15:57 ah 08:16:29 Greater nagas really need strong poison arrow 08:16:45 kilobyte: re submerged monsters, I was expecting follow up commits to not make monsters submerge so much; from the preceding discussion, I expected those to follow 08:17:39 I'll just undo the PA nerf against player, ok? 08:18:16 doy: uhhh. Why is maintaining symmetry bad? 08:18:18 What about monster v monster 08:18:39 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:51 Shouldn't we at least *try* to avoid runaway code duplication? 08:18:55 I'd also like symmetry in this case, but I agree player PA does need a nerf 08:19:08 Maybe we could give it a much lower power cap? 08:19:10 Monster PA isn't horribly overpowered, but it's strong enough to take a nerf 08:19:19 I disagree 08:19:26 I don't think monster PA needs a nerf at all 08:19:48 there's no symmetry anyway, given the different poison resistance systems 08:19:50 'needs a nerf' and 'can take a nerf' are different concepts to me 08:19:57 I don't think it can take a nerf 08:20:11 Unless we nerf player PR to start with :P 08:20:20 you think monster PA was always underpowered? 08:20:27 No 08:20:36 I don't think it needs to be weaker than it is 08:20:46 'can take a nerf' and not 'needs a buff' are the same concept to me 08:21:03 Take the hairsplitting elsewhere 08:21:22 I'm really not in the mood to get into semantics here 08:21:30 I don't think monster PA should be weakened 08:21:45 If it is, it needs compensation to keep the Snake Pit from diving in difficulty 08:22:37 then increase the greater naga HD 08:22:53 That can be done, yes 08:22:56 @??greater naga 08:22:56 greater naga (04N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 45-120 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1576 | Sp: b.venom, mystic blast, haste, poison arrow, teleport other, teleport self. 08:22:57 right now, elements are all equally resistable no matter who's wielding them 08:22:57 making spells diverge when we want them consistent is a step in the wrong direction 08:23:12 I think destroying that is a step in the-yeah 08:23:18 And possibly reduce greater naga xp multiplier 08:23:28 you could always nerf PA in some other manner 08:23:38 sorear: I'm not advocating destroying symmetry 08:23:49 So if you want to complain about something, find new material 08:24:29 greensnark: Monster PA was weakened last night, you say it shouldn't have been 08:24:53 Have you actually read what I said? 08:25:05 Most of it 08:25:19 I came in 1/3 of the way in when I saw that my sacred cow was under fire 08:25:23 Ok, where have I said that I want resistibility to be different? 08:25:26 * sorear -> scrollback 08:25:27 For monster v player? 08:25:52 I did suggest a lower power cap for player poison arrow 08:26:23 you didn't threaten symmetry, doy did 08:26:41 what's wrong with giving greater naga and venom mages different spells? 08:27:00 We can just give them different spells, yes 08:27:04 then we got into a semantic argument :p 08:27:30 We can up their HD, but it is already quite high 08:27:49 Or give them a different high-end poison spell 08:28:04 Maybe just give them a good bonus to the existing PA power 08:29:11 Or introduce three-level PR for players <3 08:29:23 First level giving ability to eat poisoned chunks :P 08:29:28 +1 08:29:37 I don't like buffing their PA power significantly, because then PR-less snake runs become much less possible 08:29:45 monster poison arrow has dice_def(3, 7+power/12) 08:30:01 we don't want PA to be a *good* spell against omniresistant monsters 08:30:19 we do want greater nagas to have a *good* spell against omniresistant players 08:30:27 How about IOOD? :) 08:31:59 I like it 08:32:10 Take away their venom bolt 08:32:13 Give them IOOD 08:32:21 it always hits at close range though 08:32:22 Leave PA as it is 08:32:56 Yeah, they'll be pretty dangerous :P 08:35:41 I like how ice storm hits all the jellies the royal jelly spits out :P 08:35:49 on the same turn 08:35:57 heh, IOOD, with Snake consisting mostly of corridors. That would be vile! 08:36:09 that sounds good; I don't think hacking resist_adjust_damage to get old PA damage against players would do any harm though -- it's asymmetric enough 08:36:57 Can IOOD do right angle turns in corridors :P 08:37:12 can't 08:37:16 Nice 08:38:10 i was just concerned that we were nerfing monster poison arrow 08:38:17 I need to get this summoner done so I can try out IOOD finally 08:38:18 because snake is already the easiest rune branch by far 08:38:20 with greater naga resistances, you usually fight them in melee though, at least on hybrids 08:38:26 doy: it's a good point that was missed at the time 08:38:35 ??tetha 08:38:36 tetha[1/1]: tetha's suggested play order for earlyish levels: lair > orc > hive > swamp > snake1-4 > elf1-6 > vault1-7 > dungeon > blades > crypt > snake5 > elf 7 > vaults 8 (but look out for equipment requirements!) 08:39:09 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [] 08:39:10 doy: easier than swamp? 08:39:14 sorear: yes 08:39:18 assuming you have pr 08:39:22 Snake:5 tends to be much more dangerous than even the new Swamp:5 08:39:27 and it's probably a tossup even then 08:39:34 yeah, swamp has been getting lots of buffs lately 08:39:37 Snake used to be a complete joke in b26 08:39:38 although Lernaean hydra may change this 08:39:43 alligators, new swamp ends, etc 08:39:46 Before naga foo got poison arrow 08:40:38 the new swamp layout with trees also makes swamp a bit harder i think 08:40:45 since it's harder to find places to run to 08:40:48 while still being pretty open 08:40:53 BTW, monster pathfinding is badly broken. They don't even try going around trees if they see the route. 08:41:12 was the "out of range" message removed 08:41:13 Weren't they supposed to use a smarter than greedy algorithm? 08:41:23 for spells 08:41:26 kilobyte: i think that's intended, for animal and lower intelligence 08:41:37 might need to be changed though 08:42:09 IIRC in the original FR it was supposed to be zombies who got dumb pathing 08:42:12 monster pathfinding needs some looking at 08:42:13 i.e. I_PLANT 08:42:14 care to look at my screen? The drakes chilled there since I ran at 27hp. 08:42:34 with yaks being able to pathfind 08:42:48 especially when transparent things are involved, but I think monsters also really don't do well with walking through doors 08:42:55 and this happened several times already even though it's only early Swamp:2 08:43:10 sorear: that would probably make more sense 08:43:41 just guess what would happen if I had airstrike... 08:47:48 this game may not be enough evidence, but book acquirement really needs looking at 08:47:55 @whereis 08:47:55 No where information for by (). 08:47:57 @whereis rob 08:47:57 rob the Convoker (L15 SESu) is currently on Elf:4 after 97051 turns. 08:48:42 I found two scrolls of acquirement so far, wasted both on books with my clearly highest skill Summonings, and got a Book of Ice and a randart book of Enchantments 08:55:21 03dolorous * rae222e607d85 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Properly put the M_SPEAKS flag on all merfolk, for consistency. 08:56:27 Noooo 08:56:33 I hate jabbering non-uniques :/ 08:56:45 Especially those thrice-damned orcs 08:56:48 but, consistency 08:56:54 Do merfolk have speech? 08:57:04 You just know they're going to get really corny speech now :P 08:57:22 Just look at what happened to orcs :P 08:57:30 I can't walk past an orc without it grunting at me like Orcs do :P 08:58:53 <3 orcs 08:59:26 * greensnark slaps syllogism with an orc. 08:59:51 at least friendly orcs 08:59:57 message_color = mute: talk:.* 09:00:03 I think that's the syntax 09:00:34 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:44 Keskitalo: <3 <3 09:00:53 sorear: Yeah, but then I miss the unique dialogue, which I do like 09:01:01 03greensnark * r075a39c3db2c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/shoals.des dgn-shoals.cc test/shoal-hut.lua): Separate Shoal rune hut and decoy hut map again. 09:01:10 I should filter for orcs specifically, I guess 09:01:19 But I like complaining about it more than fixing it :P 09:01:26 Sniff, got dropped from the server again. 09:01:29 just kill them fast 09:01:36 by: Yes! 09:02:00 You could always use your super committer powers to increase the non-unique speech frequency modifer 09:02:22 !lg glassbeat 09:02:23 518. glassbeat the Bewitcher (L15 SpWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, killed by triggering a a Zot trap trap on Vault:1 on 2010-01-27, with 71607 points after 51645 turns and 4:27:25. 09:03:05 sorear: But that would deprive me of the pleasure of complaining about it! :P 09:03:09 * greensnark grunts like Orcs do. 09:03:18 I'm sure Donald hates all these posers too 09:03:25 <3 Donald 09:03:41 The bit where he quacks when confused is priceless. 09:04:13 Ok, ugh, back to work 09:19:07 just saw my first 'i' fire elemental... 09:24:14 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:45 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:42 two months and we're up to 122 open bug reports already 09:45:25 Wow. 09:45:52 128 closed bug reports 09:45:52 (: 09:45:54 <[]J> healing while playing open-the-door close-the-door with a monster 09:45:59 doy, 2^8 09:46:03 I mean 2^7 09:48:07 hmm, just a question 09:48:26 when you blow stuff up with orb of destruction, the chunks get automaticly picked up by autoexplore, should this really be the case? :D 09:49:25 if you have autopickup enabled for chunks, yes 09:49:26 (: 09:49:38 Standardise Airstrike's damage output (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=71) by bookofjude 09:50:16 doy, its default 09:50:31 cbus: i'm aware 09:51:37 btw, blowing shit up with orb of destruction is fun :D 09:51:50 it's true! 09:54:36 03Keskitalo * rd516b7ed9499 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilereg.cc tilereg.h): Make drawing the player tile minibar into its own function. 09:54:40 03Keskitalo * r63855f59c0df 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Document draw_minibars() with a comment. 09:54:41 <3 Snakes to Sticks implementation! 09:54:44 03Keskitalo * r512e552297c4 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: With default options, always show both minibars if either is not full. 09:54:45 03Keskitalo * rd9c9890bd79e 10/crawl-ref/source/player.h: Comment fix. 09:54:46 03Keskitalo * r205a58a0a816 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Fix minibars staying on the center of the screen while being in the map view ('X'). 09:54:51 Muwahahah! its finished. 09:56:04 doy, next fix should be to show stuff like your normal Int/Str/Dex when its not being modified by items when picking stat to level up at level up 09:56:07 :D 09:56:28 cbus: you know where the tracker is! 09:56:45 already posted I think 09:57:36 You are starving! The corpse you are butchering rises to join your ranks! You stop butchering the corpse. There isn't anything here! 09:57:50 can something be done about servant behavior? 09:58:06 cbus: it's not on mantis, in any case 09:58:35 sorry, not enough time to get a browser up 09:58:37 gotta run now 10:02:40 03kilobyte * r557c6a8c950c 10/crawl-ref/source/it_use3.cc: Identify most misc items on use. Even for balls, the messages are unique. 10:02:41 03kilobyte * re2d098c9dd78 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Code readability: it's unobvious EQ_CLOAK..EQ_BODY_ARMOUR means "all armours", 10:02:50 03j-p-e-g * rcc547c5c821a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Experimentally overlay demon tiles with the corresponding numbers. 10:07:38 were the mimic mechanics changed? 10:07:52 03j-p-e-g * rdfb8ff173721 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Experimentally overlay demon tiles with the corresponding numbers. 10:08:29 Should Recall work on friendly plants? :> 10:08:39 Zaba_: how so? 10:09:07 Zaba_: I believe kilobyte made them carry their weapon 10:11:48 They also have a chance to drop whatever they were? I don't think that was the case a while back. 10:12:19 Zaba_: they used to save the RNG state and re-generate the item they mimic on every access. That was an error-prone hack. The new implementation was also haunted by several errors, but at least two of them were general bugs which should have been fixed anyways. 10:12:41 Cryp71c: they should never drop anything. Do they? 10:12:45 I see 10:13:05 kilobyte, I've never seem them drop anything, but I thought someone mentioned (somewhere) that now they have a chance to drop what they were. 10:13:53 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:50 that would be silly 10:16:45 -!- gunofdis has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:25 too scummy 10:17:45 isn't that a xom effect? 10:17:53 or a proposed xom effect 10:19:04 You see here a golden rune of Zot. 10:19:04 notify_dgn_event: Lua error: /crawl-svn-b6740d2/dat/clua/lm_trig.lua:757: 10:19:04 attempt to index local 'it' (a userdata value) 10:24:05 -!- []J has quit [] 10:24:56 wasn't that fixed? I remember a similar error in napkin's game when he picked up the orb 10:25:47 did mushroom AI change? 10:27:24 03j-p-e-g * reb6ac1c5f356 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Minor spacing changes, fix typo. 10:27:25 03j-p-e-g * r2753d5c2fbf0 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-misc/stab_brand.png: Clean up stab brand tile's outline. 10:34:51 aquamancer shoots merfolk with shard of ice (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=585) by rob 10:38:39 down to 115 open bugs, people should close bugs when they fix them d: 10:44:50 doy, there are a couple of bugs I've opened with patches attached that havn't gotten any attention ;) 10:46:02 i guess the problem is that only devs or the person who opened the bug can close them 10:46:33 and it's good to leave stuff marked as resolved instead of closing it immediately, so someone can check it's definitely fixed before closing it! 10:47:35 MarvinPA: yeah, resolved, whatever 10:47:38 and i was talking about the devs in particular 10:47:44 since they're the ones who are doing the fixing 10:47:45 (: 10:47:48 doy: you were counting unresolved bugs, right? 10:47:54 ahh heh, fair enough 10:47:54 by: yes 10:48:10 back 10:49:55 targetting info doesn't include terrain (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=586) by KiloByte 10:50:29 oh that reminds me, i don't think targetting info shows status effects either any more 10:50:38 i'll check in a sec 10:50:51 yeah, haran was a bit overzealous in removing messages i think 10:53:55 shall i make a seperate report, or just add it as a note to that one? 10:54:18 can just add a note 10:58:49 03j-p-e-g * r18c869e2b8a4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add Porkchop's tiles for missile dispersal/exploding brands. 11:00:59 Submerging should be treated for 0.6. I made a proposal even! http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:water_creatures_overhaul#new_proposal_for_submergers 11:01:29 kilobyte: not mentioning terrain is on purpose. Water or lava should be mentioned. 11:01:52 it was about deep water, mostly 11:02:12 kilobyte: well, my proposal including mentioning water and lava. 11:02:29 On Poison Arrow: I agree that nerfing guardian nagas is bad, but I think nerfing the player spell is even more important. Can't we help Nagas in some other way? 11:02:53 dpeg: the suggestion was to give greate naga IOOD 11:03:07 we should fix iood first though 11:03:39 by: sounds very good to me. 11:03:44 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:45 doy: yes, I agree. 11:03:48 !seen due 11:03:48 I last saw due at Wed Jan 27 13:46:55 2010 UTC (3h 16m 53s ago) acting out due gone. on ##crawl. 11:04:18 I think the submergers fix is crucial for 0.6? 11:04:31 dpeg: you have wiki edit rights too! 11:04:56 passive mapping is kind of useful 11:05:04 there's one bug, that it will hit corners of squares it passes through, instead of doing the diamond thingy. This makes it not always follow the tracer to immobile targets. 11:05:25 doy: I was asking for consent! 11:05:27 fixing that will have a side effect of making it less likely to hit moving targets 11:05:31 how much damage does iood do? 11:05:42 doy: all of it 11:05:44 besides that, it's mostly a matter of fiddling with the numbers 11:05:48 i guess that depends on the implementation of the monster spell version 11:06:32 I think that means yes. 11:06:57 this statue does only 8d9 with it 11:06:58 @?? statue 11:06:58 statue (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 561. 11:07:07 @?? greater naga 11:07:08 greater naga (04N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 45-120 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1576 | Sp: b.venom, mystic blast, haste, poison arrow, teleport other, teleport self. 11:07:47 if it's linear in hd, that might be a bit excessive 11:07:55 greater naga does 8d15 11:08:09 (&M foo spells:orb_of_destruction) 11:08:19 random movement speed is nuts 11:08:31 is that in yet? 11:08:42 yes 11:08:50 hmmm? 11:09:10 oh hey 11:09:12 i missed that 11:09:13 awesome 11:09:24 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:30 are you reading the commit? 11:09:43 because if that applies to anything but movement speed I'm going to shoot someone 11:11:27 pretty sure it applies to everything 11:11:35 it randomizes energy gain 11:11:36 -!- hashc has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:11:45 can we change that? 11:11:54 which is reduced by whatever amount is appropriate for the action 11:11:56 because that commit just doubled damage variance 11:12:08 and i think we should see how it actually plays out first 11:15:02 infinite loop with '`', ending in starvation (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=587) by KiloByte 11:15:30 repeated actions are so buggy 11:16:10 by: I really like the sense invisible commits, esp. regarding Canine Familiars. 11:16:28 yes, seems to work quite well; I still died, though :( 11:16:36 Aw. :) 11:16:47 by: your change makes player Invis a bit more useful, right? 11:17:01 s/bit/quite/ ? 11:17:06 Imps have see invisible - that could be dropped. They have a crapload of stuff. 11:17:15 (IIRC) 11:17:31 can we drop imps instead 11:17:35 no 11:17:36 no 11:17:40 :P 11:17:47 TGWi: please don't troll 11:17:47 TGWi: I don't think variance means what you think it means 11:18:28 by: 1. the state, quality, or fact of being variable, divergent, different, or anomalous. 11:18:57 TGWi: please be productive 11:18:57 the maximum damage in a turn just doubled, so, yeah 11:19:02 -!- TGWi was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [We're working!] 11:19:09 Too much? 11:19:16 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:23 TGWi: freaking out about these things doesn't help... if you want to discuss them, please allow for some actual discussion d: 11:22:04 The energy change is also quite minor 11:22:08 yeah 11:23:11 by: still --more-- for levelling! 11:23:29 a normal speed monster would have something like a 0.1% chance of getting an extra move, if i understand it correctly (which might mean it's not enough to actually be useful for its intended purpose, we'll see) 11:23:35 dpeg: you should ask TGW what he thinks of that :) 11:24:01 please 11:24:06 doy: it just killed me the game before, indirectly 11:24:28 doy: what is the change in question? 11:24:42 dpeg: monster energy gain per turn is now +/- 1 11:24:59 energy being what determines the actions they're capable of doing 11:25:04 moving, attacking, etc 11:25:15 oh, nice 11:25:29 who came up with this? 11:25:33 does this finally make pillar dancing unsafe? 11:25:39 well, i've been endorsing it for like a year 11:25:42 mu_ no 11:25:46 by's idea 11:25:52 by finally went and coded it 11:25:56 And he has our enthusiastic support :) 11:26:08 by: yay! 11:26:20 Mu_: may be not enough 11:26:26 -!- Giomancer has joined ##Crawl-Dev 11:26:28 I stumbled upon that comment in _monster_add_energy that didn't quite seem to do enough 11:26:49 Mu_: it will affect pillar dancing, but probably not enough to make a difference 11:27:03 okay 11:27:20 Mu_: but! If the change works out nicely, we can expand on the idea :) 11:27:24 maybe if you're dancing with a hydra or giant or something 11:27:24 yes 11:27:45 i was initially proposing it as a solution to pillar dancing 11:34:34 judging by my ogre fight just then, it seems to be working well 11:34:57 wait what does it do exactly 11:35:00 is this in the current cdo version? 11:35:01 monsters sometimes get double turns? 11:35:11 11:24 <+doy> dpeg: monster energy gain per turn is now +/- 1 11:35:49 so when you are running away from an ogre it can sometimes attack you while you are retreating? 11:36:16 rarely, but yes 11:36:24 does it need to complete a full 10 with those 1s to do any difference? 11:36:26 also, you can rarely get an extra space between you 11:37:44 well, that's a DAMN FREAKING GREAT IDEA! 11:37:55 would be interesting if it was cumulative; if the player did it a lot he'd get punished 11:38:26 Timbermaw: it is cumulative, not sure what you mean about getting punished 11:39:24 you mean those little +/- 1s need to get to a certain number to allow to monster to have an extra action? 11:39:30 the* 11:39:44 i believe so? i'm not incredibly familiar with the monster speed system 11:39:48 but that's how i understand it 11:40:06 The first +1 will allow the ogre an extra turn, but it will lose a turn right after 11:40:15 alright then 11:40:18 too bad that random walk takes exponentially long time to show an effect 11:40:19 Monsters can act when their energy is >= 80 11:40:34 03Keskitalo * r232760e27162 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Add a FIXME comment. 11:41:00 oh 11:41:18 Is the change on cdo? 11:41:20 so it would have 81, move twice, and have -79? 11:41:22 yes 11:41:22 greensnark: where the 0 point is doesn't matter. Only gains/costs have any effect. 11:41:41 kilobyte: Right 11:41:41 @?? yak 11:41:41 yak (07Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Damage: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 223. 11:42:05 I had yak packs fluctuating wildly already. (Well, at least one speed spurt was definitely visible.) 11:42:19 But the 0 point is likely to have a visible effect early with the current settings 11:42:37 I think monsters start with 70 energy on creation 11:42:40 potions of experience still don't fill your xp pool, shouldn't they? 11:42:43 at xl27 11:42:51 So a monster that wakes and moves will likely rapidly demonstrate a blip 11:42:54 at xl27 they probably should 11:43:27 syllogism: Go finish the game already you lousy farmer :P 11:43:48 I finished it already, got the orb milestone :P 11:43:55 !send syllogism 200 Daevas 11:43:55 Sending 200 Daevas to syllogism. 11:44:14 I've death's door, no problem :P 11:44:19 and it lasts 40+ turns with haste 11:44:19 :/ 11:44:46 Maybe Haste should halve all positive durations when it kicks in :P 11:44:58 it certainly shouldn't double them :P 11:45:00 basically 11:45:10 And preferably slap the player with a trout when activated 11:45:10 not that I mind 11:45:38 Ancient liches need that dispel magic spell we talked about 11:45:55 Irresitible effect that strips the player of all buffs :P 11:45:58 And slaps them with a trout 11:46:17 and transfers them all to the lich! 11:46:58 I was going to suggest transferring them all to the trout 11:47:02 But your guess is as good as mine 11:47:10 Crawl needs trout 11:47:12 Or at least carp 11:47:25 are those big fish? 11:48:03 greensnark: Aren't giant goldfish carp? 11:48:16 Oh. Maybe. 11:48:39 Wikipedia says you're right 11:48:43 So Crawl has had carp all along! 11:48:50 I'm a DF player, so I know this carp stuff. :P 11:48:56 Keskitalo: are you referring to the odd fact that sleeping monsters can jumpstart at you? 11:48:58 :P 11:49:07 we should pick a better name for 'big fish' though 11:49:17 doy: submerger overhaul first 11:49:26 shrug, renamings are easy 11:49:26 after that, we may find that we need less fish 11:49:26 (: 11:49:27 dpeg: No, just the +1/-1 thing. 11:49:33 "very big fish"? 11:49:34 sturgeons! 11:49:44 bigger fish 11:49:48 Sturgeons that perform sturgery on you 11:49:58 There is always a bigger fish! 11:50:19 zaba_ just name them all "bigger fish" and give them random stats 11:50:20 Zaba_'s going to suggest adding Jar-Jar next 11:50:26 Check how cute it is: http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=big+fish 11:50:33 * greensnark readies his railgun for Zaba. 11:50:51 greensnark, not a laser cannon? 11:50:51 oh god that's hideous 11:51:05 Looks like a fish with toothache 11:51:54 lol, shark tile 11:52:14 we should steal the Dopefish image :p 11:52:24 or at least the big fish from Super Mario Bros 3 11:52:35 currently spell targetting prompt doesn't say anywhere whether the square is out of range or not 11:53:09 It could show a trout symbol if out of range 11:53:20 what would that look like :P 11:53:22 But you should probably file a bug :P 11:53:31 Trout: <>-< 11:53:51 syllogism: it does say that 11:53:56 and it doesn't say anything when you target a square that's out of range 11:54:09 well look at my game 11:54:43 syllogism: you're right. Will come. 11:54:51 We urged Haran to merge, he wanted to wait :) 11:54:52 Testing & Feedback item for the new targetting would probably be good, the message window one is working nicely; you can link the separate reports to it with Relationships. 11:55:21 dpeg: haran merged the targeting stuff yesterday 11:55:27 but i think that was just for the prompt 11:55:33 it's quite nice though 11:56:22 Yeah, it looks good! 11:56:31 yes 11:56:53 I'll do the T&F item and link some reports to it. 11:57:25 Does Haran have a todo list? 11:57:29 greensnark: Unicode has no fish symbol :( 11:58:22 unicode has everything 11:58:23 Keskitalo: Haran and I are in email contact. 11:58:32 an item would be useful, though 11:58:53 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=588 11:59:09 This is the message window one: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=506 11:59:20 See the Relationships - that's a nice feature. 11:59:58 dpeg: Haran (assuming he has Mantis rights) could add his todo to the item, so people know what's useful to report. 12:00:14 The new targetting for 0.6 (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=588) by evktalo 12:00:25 EV: -6 <3 12:00:39 dpeg is a man of strange and morbid tastes. 12:01:00 "Hit me harder!" 12:01:27 were the bugs with negative values for those ever dealt with? 12:01:37 doy: are the negative values bad? 12:01:41 i remember for some of them, 0 was worse then negative or something 12:01:48 because of weirdness in the formula used 12:01:56 sorear pointed it out a couple times 12:02:00 doy: ah, don't know 12:05:16 Tracking the source of poison if it kills the player (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=22) by evktalo 12:06:49 Aww, touched an oldie. 12:07:04 I love it that usefulness of Fedhas always depends on how many fruits you found. 12:07:28 Fedhas is grrrrreat fun, especially in Lair with all the open space and fungi and plants. 12:07:39 Does abandoning Fedhas make carried fruits explode? 12:07:42 * greensnark hopeful! 12:08:02 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 12:08:04 greensnark: I hope I get Shoals instead of Snake in my game. :/ 12:08:16 Keskitalo: I see you have a deathwish :P 12:09:35 it has been nerfed like a dozen times, I wouldn't worry 12:10:11 got the shoals zig level :P 12:10:38 it should be a whole deal more wet 12:11:12 The ideal Shoals setup would lure in the player by making Shoal:1-2 seem like welcoming paradises 12:11:23 greensnark, sounds great 12:11:25 And then hit them hard and cut off their retreat on Shoal:5 12:11:40 but you'd need shafts to cut off retreat 12:11:44 kilobyte: how is Shoals not wet enough? 12:11:52 dpeg: zig 12:12:02 There's a Shoals level in Zig? 12:12:07 shoal monsters 12:12:18 Shoals monsters aren't very good vs high-level players :/ 12:12:36 didn't see any aquamancers either 12:12:42 greensnark: Octokrakens. 12:12:48 syllogism: you killed two 12:12:49 the shoals zig level should totally be water-covered 12:12:52 It is an octopus with krakens for tentacles. 12:13:18 eronarn: octopus king 12:14:00 Agree: all shallow water/deep water 12:14:36 dpeg: no, boring. some ground is more fun 12:15:39 Eronarn: challenge is bigger with all water 12:15:44 Eronarn: Wait, what? I thought it was a kraken with octopodes for tentacles. 12:16:01 also: how is "all floor" not boring, but "mixture of deep and shallow water" is? 12:16:09 dpeg: I haven't suggested this before, because I was biding my time, but... 12:16:16 Isn't it time to add the Octopus King unique? :P 12:16:31 greensnark: Well, it is eight krakens, of course. So they have to be the tentacles. 12:16:33 He could appear in deep zig 12:16:45 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:16:49 what could it possibly do :P 12:17:11 I could make it pretty hard to kill with a strangling attack that immobilises the player :P 12:17:21 And he could summon kraken :P 12:17:25 syllogism: 1000 HP, summons krakens that are like its tentacles! 12:17:25 And octpodes 12:17:33 And nautilus-es?-i? 12:17:43 greensnark: don't worry, we have developers who are obsessed with uniques :) 12:17:45 Crawl needs nautili! 12:17:54 yeah, why do we not have nautiluses 12:18:12 greensnark: Crawl should have ammonites. And anomalacarids. And trilobytes. 12:18:28 I grok the first and third, but the second forces me to open Wikipedia :P 12:18:53 and cuttlefish! 12:18:57 Manta rays 12:19:15 and trout! 12:19:23 Trout go without saying 12:19:27 Fedhasite: "Yay, food shop! ... Meh, only one banana." 12:19:50 greensnark: gotten confident from the turtle success story? :) 12:19:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burgess_scale_Cor.png <-- this thing was a badass in its time 12:20:02 the new -more- thing is making my console scroll 12:20:21 Or somebody should make an underwater roguelike with all those stuff. 12:20:22 Mu_: how big is your console? 12:20:45 80 25 12:21:06 a portal vault with ancient creatures would be cool 12:21:22 also if I'm wearing two rings and press P to swap one it only tells me one of the rings i'm currently wearing 12:21:36 Mu_: that second one's known 12:21:40 okay 12:21:42 it's just not scrolling far enough 12:22:01 the second ring shows up once it scrolls 12:22:12 dpeg: due forced me to add turtles :P 12:22:29 I'm extremely neutral on turtles 12:23:02 I mean, they obviously ROCK and KICK ASS, but I'm very very cool and dispassionate about them :P 12:23:07 hey, now that we've cleared off Q, we should use Q for cephalopods of various types 12:23:14 makes more sense than X for the kraken 12:23:32 X is for the hentai horde, I understand 12:23:56 -!- by has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:24:28 Q for cephalopods, q for tentacles would be cool. 12:24:30 (and once we do that, we could add cuttlefish and nautili and ammonoids and the octopus king and... 12:24:33 (: 12:24:45 Eronarn: hey, that could work 12:24:52 maybe 12:24:59 we should get tentacles off of w, anyways 12:25:06 yeah 12:28:09 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:05 -!- dpeg has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:15 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:19 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:42 -!- kilobyte_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:15 -!- kilobyte has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:32:23 What of small 'x' for the tentacles? (frankly, I think the ';' for tentacles were the best so far) 12:33:06 Keskitalo: ask around, if there are no objections, do it 12:33:50 dpeg_: Yeah, food shops for Fedhasites are a real boon. As are strawberry fields and fruit orchards. :] 12:34:39 small x would be better, but i'd prefer getting the kraken off x altogether 12:34:47 Keskitalo: need to reduce fruit stacks a bit now 12:34:52 I'm really fine with any tho. :) 12:35:06 Strawberry fields forever 12:35:12 dpeg_: That wasn't done already? (I take you mean vaults, not normal generation) 12:35:32 I'm probably confusing it with not-Fedhas related toning down. 12:35:59 I mean both 12:36:31 yeah, you can find stacks of like 16 grapes on the floor 12:37:17 Aha, now dpeg's anti-fruit agenda emerges :P 12:37:43 Can we add pineapples? :) 12:38:03 fruit that requires butchery 12:38:04 nice 12:38:09 :P 12:38:13 And is a good throwing weapon 12:38:19 As good as a sling bullet! 12:38:23 coconuts and monkeys? 12:38:29 greensnark: last time I suggested reducing fruits, I felt so bad I wanted to quit! :() 12:38:35 It should get bonus damage vs weights when thrown by halflings 12:38:45 *vs wights 12:38:52 dpeg_: I'm still waiting for my fruit salad achievement to be implemented! (not really) 12:38:54 Damn typo-correcting fingers 12:39:04 -!- kilobyte_ is now known as kilobyte 12:39:09 But then, I simply jumped on the plant god waggon. Now, I only have to remove pizzas when no one is looking. 12:39:19 -!- kilobyte has quit ["leaving"] 12:39:25 whatever happened to the guy that was working on achievments 12:39:48 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:50 Was someone working on achievements? 12:40:05 I saw an FR, but i didn't know there was development effort on it 12:40:15 i thought someone got started on coding it 12:41:16 Mara stories on the SA thread are quite good. 12:41:23 (: 12:42:01 i vaguely want to keep track of the sa thread, but what i really mean is that i want to read the interesting bits of the sa thread 12:42:12 greensnark: yes, we had a guy, zooko, but the dropped. Actually, he dropped with an email, which is almost unheard of. 12:42:21 Especially in Crawl-dev circles :) 12:42:54 doy: yes, we need someone to collect the good bits on SA and put them into a readable form. 12:42:55 Props to zooko! 12:43:24 was zooko the one who came up with the original proposal? 12:43:28 or was that someone else 12:44:00 doy: yes, he was 12:44:10 03j-p-e-g * rc58a08ba3ecd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Add icons for armour brands. 12:44:14 a very nice guy, girl friend and studies made him drop out 12:44:36 But him, jpeg and me came up with a very elaborate design! 12:45:02 he's the one to blame for getting me hooked on kongregate then d: 12:45:11 That Mara post due linked sometime back was hilarious 12:45:15 doy: I managed to only get addicted to Amorphous+. 12:45:22 It contained snarky references to the undead Swamp end as well 12:46:42 dpeg: http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/doyster 12:47:15 doy: no way I am gona touch kongregate right now. 12:47:22 (: 12:52:18 dpeg: Have you seen this: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3155652&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=135#post371600144 12:54:16 what's mara's depth? 12:54:41 18-25 12:54:56 That should allow Zot too, actually 12:55:04 He's one of the rare uniques that can scale with the player :P 12:55:40 !tell due Why not allow Mara in Zot as well! 12:55:40 greensnark: OK, I'll let due know. 12:56:08 he didn't seem all that threatening to me 12:56:10 mara is 18-25, but xtahua is 20-27? 12:56:10 d: 12:56:28 Well, Xtahua can do more direct damage, I think 12:56:28 guess it'll be worse if you get him in a big room 12:56:29 margery too 12:56:32 @??Xtahua 12:56:33 Xtahua (05D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 19 | Health: 133 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Damage: 35, 20, 17 | Flags: see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(177), 05fire++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 5449. 12:56:37 @??Mara 12:56:37 Mara (04R) | Speed: 10 | HD: 20 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 10/14 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(213), 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 7532 | Sp: mislead, mara summon, b.lightning, player ghost, pain, teleport self. 12:56:49 Oh, Mara has bolt of lightning :) 12:56:53 xtahua is pretty trivial once you have fire res 12:57:16 same with margery 12:57:22 3x bolt of lightning 12:57:42 !lg * ikiller=Mara s=ckaux 12:57:42 5 games for * (ikiller=Mara): 3x bolt of lightning, 1x stone arrow, 1x blast of negative energy 12:58:03 frederick and boris are also 20-27, but they're more on the same difficulty level 12:58:05 * greensnark wants to meet Mara. 12:58:27 !lg * ikiller=mara s=killer 12:58:28 5 games for * (ikiller=mara): 2x an illusion of Mara, 1x Mara, 1x N78291's illusion, 1x MUMMY's illusion 12:58:39 due should implement the illusion thing for monsters 12:58:44 So we can have fun fights on FightClub 12:58:48 (: 12:58:48 greensnark: this whole page is so funny, including the talk about GDR, the swamp and Mara <3 12:59:05 dpeg: now note that it is 136 pages long 12:59:06 (: 12:59:32 doy: I mean the page greensnark linked :) 12:59:42 dpeg: i know 12:59:42 (: 12:59:56 dpeg: Yeah, doy is saying "Think of all the good stuff buried in those other 136 pages" :) 13:00:09 pfff 13:00:30 "Spot the exploding dpeg!" 13:00:57 Hey, there's a guy who killed Boris, Frederick and Mara in one group with IOOD :P 13:01:14 yeah, iood is really pretty ridiculous at the moment 13:01:14 (: 13:01:16 Pity he neglected to mention how many casts he needed 13:01:30 3 13:01:31 :P 13:01:39 What, really? 13:01:41 no 13:05:17 on another note, my current drcr is feeling the berserk nerf a pretty good amount 13:05:20 (: 13:06:28 doy: and berserk is useful nonetheless, eh? 13:06:35 definitely 13:06:52 I doubt that running around burdenend since D:3 is clever but I am too lazy to do something about it. 13:07:19 str: 6 13:07:20 d: 13:07:43 have you not been putting points into strength? 13:08:05 never! 13:08:16 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 13:08:55 The new Fedhas ability order is .... harder :) 13:09:17 what do you think of the new targeting interface? 13:09:17 (: 13:09:26 Sunlight is not the first power any more, right? 13:09:45 Does it do the persistent glow thing now? 13:09:49 what does sunlight do, besides dry up water? 13:10:02 It can produce plants, I believe 13:10:24 doy: backlit on monsters 13:10:38 it should damage vampires 13:10:39 (: 13:10:46 Yes! 13:10:48 And shadows 13:10:57 It should instakill shadows :) 13:11:18 not like it needs to instakill them, considering their hp 13:11:21 @??shadow 13:11:21 shadow (06p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 505(drain strength) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(20), 12cold+++, 03poison | XP: 28. 13:11:56 hmmm, also 13:11:59 They're so weak that instakill doesn't make much difference either way, but it would be Cool! 13:12:00 doy: targeting for Fedhas? 13:12:10 has the death yak frequency been toned down in lair? 13:12:17 because i haven't seen many of them at all lately 13:12:20 dpeg: for spells 13:12:21 doy: isn't that the wrong direction? 13:12:30 doy: I invented the new targeting interface :P 13:12:39 dpeg: wrong direction? 13:12:51 and ah(: 13:13:31 l - a plain deck of cards 1000 gold 13:13:42 What a round number 13:13:48 doy: fewer death yaks? Who could possibly want that. 13:13:54 dpeg: i know! 13:14:11 Is this like one of those plain book covers that happens to contain richly illustrated editions of the Kama Sutra? 13:15:12 greensnark: I know about pornographic materials hidden in bible-lookalikes 13:15:15 2.3 death yaks on average on Lair:8 13:15:34 With a maximum of 13 death yaks and sigma of 3.14 13:15:48 We have an approximation of pi in death yak distribution :P 13:15:49 greensnark: and since death yaks are pack monsters, that means that a good amount of the time, you get 0 13:15:55 doy: Yes 13:16:00 that should be fixed d: 13:16:34 doy: ah, that's the correct direction :) 13:17:10 speaking of lack of monsters, my Orc:1 is quite big and featured exactly five plain orcs. All cursing, I assume. About the lack of support. 13:18:40 but Orc:2 has a firedrake?? 13:18:46 heh 13:19:38 Can I also make the ultra-rare Lair monsters more common 13:19:42 Like yellow wasps and redbacks 13:20:05 Yellow wasps appear in 1 in 10000 Lair:4/Lair:5s 13:20:14 heh 13:20:35 greensnark: there's a script that tells you these numbers? 13:20:44 dpeg: place-population.lua 13:20:55 ./crawl -script place-pop Lair:1 Lair:8 runs the numbers on the Lair 13:21:07 Takes a while though :P 13:21:24 The 1 in 10000 is obviously wildly inaccurate, but they're not common :P 13:21:46 yeah, anything at rarity of like 15 or below you basically never see 13:21:47 greensnark: does this fall under "unit tests"? 13:21:54 dpeg: No, under scripts/ 13:21:55 doy: this is not necessarily bad 13:22:09 greensnark: well, but we can use it for testing purposes 13:22:19 for example, what is the change for an orc warlord on Orc:1? 13:22:22 dpeg: Yes, but it's not an automated testcase 13:22:26 dpeg: that's not what unit testing means though 13:22:27 (: 13:23:13 No orc warlords on Orc:1 in 150 tests 13:23:59 0.12 orc knights per Orc:1 though 13:24:09 Sigma 0.34 :) 13:24:30 greensnark: ah, I see. A unit test can be run when you sleep. But that could be done as soon as you have a script, no? So it'S a first step. 13:24:43 by the way, is Sticky Flame being nerfed to range 1 yet? 13:24:54 dpeg: No, a unit test knows what result is correct, so it can automatically flag failure cases 13:25:01 Whereas this script makes no judgement on correctness 13:25:01 "unit test" means something that tests a very specific part of the code, and says either "yes, this works" or "no, this is broken" 13:25:24 Yes, the tests we have in test/ are not unit tests 13:25:56 ah, okay 13:26:08 thanks for explaining 13:26:20 Looks like 0.01% of Orc:1 levels have warlords 13:26:24 But that may be because of vaults 13:26:41 dpeg: I really like the new Fedhas ability order! 13:26:41 for example, a monster generation unit test should know that anything with <5% oklobs is broken. 13:26:49 dpeg: :P 13:26:57 It is a bit harder. But it's fun to use evolution on toadstools early. 13:27:04 heh 13:27:10 I like the adjacent-evolution btw, makes you need to position yourself more. 13:27:27 didn't adjacent evolution just change? 13:27:39 in a recent commit, i think 13:28:48 i did quite like it being adjacent, was nice to be able to turn a bunch of corpses into fun 13:28:51 Yes, I'm referring to that. Charles made it to single target in LOS I think, experimentally. 13:28:53 fungi* 13:28:58 then evolve a group 13:29:00 Into fun indeed. :) 13:29:04 heh 13:30:21 Keskitalo: Charles changed Evolution to targeting, if I understand correctly. 13:30:34 Keskitalo: and I did reply on that on the list :) 13:31:39 hmmm, lair changes make it more interesting for fedhas, don't they 13:32:49 yes 13:32:59 more open space, better for the oklob artillery 13:33:06 (: 13:33:09 there should be a unique who follows Fedhas 13:33:23 summon oklobs! 13:34:07 doy: and the many plants help too, of course 13:34:33 yeah, that's what i was talking about 13:35:36 can friendly oklobs shoot through other friendly plants? 13:35:48 I am just using one, let me try to see. 13:36:12 yes 13:36:17 nice 13:39:24 also, we have 8 open tickets tagged with has_patch 13:45:45 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:40 -!- Anym has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 13:58:09 uh this is an interesting "bailey" 13:58:12 look at my game 13:58:29 haha 13:58:30 ...heh 13:58:39 that's a lot of staircases 13:58:53 I guess he exhausted all available Bailey maps and they're not allow_dup 13:59:19 aww 13:59:36 so will downstairs take me out or what 13:59:46 greensnark: why would it generate twice as many staircases as normal though? 13:59:58 syllogism: wait 14:00:09 syllogism: where? 14:00:15 dpeg: cdo/syllogism? 14:00:27 ah, I see 14:00:38 syllogism: you're a Nemelex abuser, I presume =) 14:01:04 syllogism is currently trying to break nemelex as hard as possible i think 14:01:12 doing a pretty good job at it too 14:01:12 (: 14:02:14 syllogism: that's awesome, but it'd be even cooler if you presented a todo afterwards! 14:02:28 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:28 there aren't really any significant problems besides possibly the slow piety decay. Later on you can pretty much manipulate it to always give you the kinds of decks you want but I'm not sure if that's an issue 14:05:54 late as in even as a 3 runer 14:08:23 The most basic question is: Can Nemelex be used to godo effect without scumming? 14:08:44 sure, though making the torment card slightly rare would help there 14:08:56 right now decks of destruction are a bit too risky to be used in any real combat in my opinion 14:09:09 i thought we already did that 14:09:09 and you can't really afford to triple draw them 14:09:23 torment cards are still 5 5 5 14:09:31 hmmm 14:09:35 maybe you are thinking mass drain 14:09:49 looks like it isn't rare either 14:11:34 syllogism: not here, please :) Mail or wiki. 14:12:00 If you want, I create a Nemelex feedback page for you. 14:12:48 isn't the channel logged for this purpose :P 14:13:09 not for this purpose d: 14:13:26 finding specific information from here takes a bit of effort 14:13:44 logs are just to make it possible at all 14:15:26 dpeg: I'll reply as well. 14:15:36 -!- kilobyte has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:20:22 @??merfolk 14:20:22 merfolk (02m) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 9 | Health: 18-54 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 188. 14:22:34 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:45 03haranp * r9aac196e3617 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Give a direction title prompt when zapping wands. 14:23:47 03haranp * rbeb3dfd0acce 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Really minor cleanups. 14:23:52 03haranp * rc398a2df1903 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Remove no-longer-helpful lines for some spells (generally clouds.) Only 14:23:56 03haranp * rc4ee32123b1b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc spells1.cc): Change Healing and deck-card direction prompts slightly. 14:24:27 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:33 -!- dpeg__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:37 -!- dpeg___ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:50 -!- dpeg____ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:56 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:25:01 sorry, angband.pl seems a bit shaky today 14:25:03 5 dpegs! 14:25:11 need more dpegs 14:25:21 -!- dpeg has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:25:28 Is that the Mirror Image spell? ^___^ 14:25:31 -!- by has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:27:09 Mara <3 dpeg 14:28:31 my wife's name is Maria :) 14:29:43 (: 14:30:50 Folks, I am writing to Haran about targeting. And ideas what could be improved? 14:30:54 *Any 14:31:29 dpeg____: the information given about tiles when looking around 14:31:34 he reduced that too much 14:31:44 the intent was good, but it's missing important information now 14:31:45 Is there a list what status effects (poison, etc) should be visible when looking at/targetting monsters? 14:31:56 Keskitalo: anything that's not an inherent property of the monster 14:32:12 so poisoned yes, see invisible no 14:32:13 etc 14:32:48 Yeah, that's correct. Right now I'm poisoning critters with targetted stuff and wondering if I got them already; I suppose it's the same with any effect I'd be inflicting on them. 14:33:00 yes 14:33:12 doy: currently, I have this: 14:33:18 * no Aim line for target out of sight 14:33:18 * relevant terrain not mentioned (water, lava) 14:33:18 * monster enchantments (confused etc.) not mentioned 14:33:21 there's that issue, and there's also the issue of monster descriptions not being shown for the default target 14:33:40 until you actually move the cursor, no descriptions are shown 14:33:42 and that's annoying 14:34:08 doy: could you sum up that in a single line? (I can't.) 14:34:31 'monster descriptions should be shown for the default target, without moving the cursor' 14:34:47 the reduced monster description, I guess? 14:35:01 orcish wizard, half-dead, confused etc. 14:35:02 whatever monster description is normally shown 14:35:02 This is why default_target=no is so awesome :) 14:35:13 greensnark: why is that? 14:35:27 So that even when the targeting interface spams monster details, I'm not affected :) 14:35:47 The hunter targeting massacre sometime back? Didn't affect me <3 14:35:56 doy: we don't want to show stuff like "it is mindless" or "it can see invisible" in the targeting prompt anymore 14:36:16 greensnark: you're really old :P 14:36:21 dpeg____: yes, that's covered by "anything that's an inherent property of the monster shouldn't be shown" 14:36:24 dpeg____: Agreed 14:36:25 Younger than you, old man :P 14:36:31 dpeg____: Yeah, I think doy hit the nail in the head 14:36:32 but i think that's done already? 14:36:37 greensnark: but I am going with the times! 14:36:38 maybe not 14:36:51 doy: yes, at least that was our intent from the start 14:37:22 Haran had to do a lot of work to get trunk state. 14:37:32 Did you note the name of spell etc. is now displayed? 14:37:35 yeah 14:37:37 i like that a lot 14:37:54 Yeah, displaying the name of the spell/ammo is very useful 14:38:11 I kept forgetting and firing arrows of dispersal at rats :P 14:38:17 wow 14:38:22 dispersed rats 14:38:26 (: 14:38:27 hmmm 14:38:42 something that would be useful would be for the dumplog to also list monsters killed by place 14:38:45 or by branch 14:39:05 -!- Twinge has quit [Connection timed out] 14:39:07 03greensnark * r3051ff277d27 10/crawl-ref/source/ (l_mons.cc scripts/place-population.lua): place-population: also report combined monster stats for all levels to give convenient branch summaries. 14:39:22 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:29 okay, mail sent 14:39:41 -!- dpeg__ has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:50 -!- dpeg___ has quit ["leaving"] 14:40:28 dpeg is totally into rakshasa behaviour 14:42:44 -!- Twinge- has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:37 "was cursed" items seem to display in red in inventory after uncursing. 14:45:56 2 hydras, 7 spiny frogs, 6 blink frogs, 2 griffons, 1 elephant slug, 1 komodo dragon, 2 fire drakes, 4 orange rats, 4 black snakes, 2 polar bear, 3 black bears, 1 grizzly bear <--- the only vaguely dangerous things i got in lair 14:46:06 i seem to recall komodo dragons being a lot more common too 14:50:33 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:07 * greensnark mews. 14:51:19 Shoals gives 20k more xp than Snake on average :P 14:51:37 The major culprits being vanilla merfolk and harpies :P 14:51:52 @??merfolk 14:51:52 merfolk (02m) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 9 | Health: 18-54 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 188. 14:52:02 how much more than swamp? 14:52:25 2x Swamp last I looked, but I'll run the comprehensive test 14:52:38 @??harpy 14:52:38 harpy (03H) | Speed: 25 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 14 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28), 03poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 818. 14:52:42 oh wow 14:52:49 that does seem a bit excessive 14:52:49 Snake: http://sprunge.us/fZFR 14:52:59 Shoals: http://sprunge.us/HbiT 14:54:46 I think just dropping monster numbers in Shoals will help bring it in line 14:55:11 i'd rather make snake harder 14:55:33 it's pretty easy right now 14:55:34 snake is so much popcorn 14:55:37 yeah 14:55:40 definitely make it harder, not shoals easier 14:55:45 0.7! 14:55:52 i suppose 14:55:59 Well, giving greater nagas IOOD will make it harder :) 14:56:01 But I really, really agree. :) 14:56:14 Snake:1-4 is snoozefest, Snake:5 is nice. 14:56:51 Stupid naga keep wasting turns spitting poison at resistant players. And who enters without? 14:57:30 1-4 doesn't really have greater nagas 14:57:49 naga warriors need to be buffed somehow, i think 14:58:09 naga mages are decently dangerous, but they die too quickly 14:58:19 Keskitalo: this is because anything with "cursed" in it gets the red colour. 14:58:29 Heh, the stats are stuffed with mimics :P 14:58:32 doy: beware of xp inflation! 14:58:44 dpeg____: yeah, i know 14:58:53 maybe we just need an across the board xp scaledown 14:58:54 (: 14:59:22 You will be visited by scores of axe maniacs just for suggesting that :P 14:59:43 You can do many things in Crawl, but touching xp arouses the worst in everyone :P 14:59:51 greensnark: i've played a couple summoners and a couple hoprs, and didn't really have any problems 14:59:58 doy: I know 15:00:00 so i don't really know what people get so upset about 15:00:15 hmmm 15:00:19 The amount of frettting players do just to wield a weapon of draining is hilarious 15:00:26 once we make those changes to the xp pool 15:00:31 that we're planning on for 0.7 15:00:37 we should hide xp as a number entirely 15:00:45 Hey, Swamp totals jive nicely with Snake now 15:00:51 Swamp: http://sprunge.us/HLSP 15:01:10 dpeg____: thoughts? 15:01:37 swamp worms are 20% of the experience? 15:01:38 :| 15:01:52 greensnark: well 15:01:53 or of the monsters? 15:01:57 that's not entirely fair 15:02:04 since nobody kills every swamp work 15:02:05 worm 15:02:06 (: 15:02:10 Actually the % is just the % of monster population, not exp 15:02:29 But they are worth 20%, yes :P 15:02:34 swamp worms are still 15.4% of the exp 15:02:50 :[ 15:02:50 Oh yes, 15%, wrong numbers :P 15:03:08 now that they lost their double damage against flounderers, their xp should be bumped back down 15:03:11 Twinge-: ^^ 15:04:20 @??swamp worm 15:04:20 swamp worm (07w) | Speed: 12 | HD: 5 | Health: 25-50 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 168. 15:04:23 @?swamp worm 15:04:24 swamp worm (07w) | Speed: 12 | HD: 5 | Health: 25-50 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 144. 15:05:05 also, harpy xp seems pretty excessive 15:05:11 greensnark: I need Shoals number to compare. 55k xp sounds good. 15:05:12 I have no idea what you could do with naga 15:05:14 @??harpy 15:05:14 harpy (03H) | Speed: 25 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 14 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28), 03poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 818. 15:05:23 dpeg____: http://sprunge.us/HbiT 15:05:26 are they batty HP? 15:05:46 erm, AI 15:05:50 do they fight like bats? 15:05:50 TGWi: yes 15:05:58 harpy xp is insane 15:06:02 yeah, that is nuts 15:06:07 doy: what should I comment on? (You asked.) 15:06:22 15:00 <+doy> once we make those changes to the xp pool 15:06:22 15:00 <+doy> that we're planning on for 0.7 15:06:22 15:00 <+doy> we should hide xp as a number entirely 15:07:01 -!- Twinge has quit [Connection timed out] 15:07:13 doy: hiding the whole display? or making it less explicit? 15:07:31 indication of an empty pool is very useful 15:07:38 what are these changes? 15:07:39 Seriously 15:07:57 TGWi: hiding everything 15:08:04 TGWi: the pool mechanism is going to be completely changed 15:08:06 For example, why disarm traps I don't have to if I have no XP? 15:08:07 so that wouldn't be an issue 15:08:34 how would you change it? 15:08:49 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:experimental_skill_pool_changes 15:08:54 the idea under Siber here 15:09:03 doy: fully supported 15:09:38 doy: showing the mystic xp pool number is pretty bad design :) 15:09:46 i agree! 15:10:30 I approve 15:11:22 I'm worried about how noncombat skills would handle that though 15:11:27 Can we have a trout symbol in the exp pool 15:11:41 T&D, particularly 15:12:08 TGWi: well, if you untrap things, it'll make it more likely that the next xp you get will go into t&d 15:12:37 or if you detect traps, etc 15:12:43 yes 15:12:56 Just found annihilations on the ground in Lair. Does feel a bit odd. 15:13:09 dpeg____: you can find GDA on D:1 15:13:57 doy: sure, but the most substantial sources of exp happen to come immediately after substantial combat skill exercise 15:14:25 TGWi: well, with my addition to the proposal, that would be less of an issue 15:14:34 Cause Fear doesn't need to tell that plants and fungi are unaffected, what do you think? :) 15:14:44 Keskitalo: agreed 15:15:11 Keskitalo: make a note! 15:15:19 (or just fix it!) 15:15:20 (: 15:15:21 perhaps one can generalise that 15:15:36 any immobile 0-exp monsters 15:15:54 immobile/magic immune 15:16:20 magic immune should not suppress the message 15:16:23 immobile is very good 15:16:32 TGWi: immobile/magic immune 0-exp 15:16:44 oh ok 15:17:43 -!- workimer has quit ["whee!"] 15:18:16 and i agree about armour training changes needing to go in, it's kinda annoying now to be getting 'your armour makes you unable to attack' messages in a robe, and not being able to do anything about it 15:18:20 (: 15:18:36 robes prevent from attacking? 15:18:39 I'd argue that's pretty bad 15:18:44 TGWi: all armour does now 15:18:46 with the new changes 15:18:53 since there is no more heavy/light distinction 15:19:06 but there's still a distinction in how training works 15:19:11 which needs to be fixed 15:19:58 The message also needs to be fixed, it conflates armour and shield penalties 15:20:03 oh really 15:20:09 maybe that's the issue then 15:20:15 Yeah, I got lazy at 3 am :) 15:20:21 i didn't think i'd be getting as much trouble from an elven robe as i am 15:20:22 (: 15:21:47 03haranp * r6dcca1f3722e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Add a direction_chooser_args struct which wraps the gazillion options 15:22:12 Only a gazillion, eh 15:22:17 I thought it was closer to a googol 15:22:44 !tell due sometime soon you should make a summary playtesting post with these issues http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:testing_and_polish_needed_for_0.6_release#feedback_requested 15:22:44 doy: OK, I'll let due know. 15:27:01 doy: that might sound a bit pushing 15:28:15 !tell due just an idea, not intending to sound pushing! 15:28:15 doy: OK, I'll let due know. 15:28:16 (: 15:28:35 :) 15:29:56 I think I have a fix for the cause fear & plants/fungi. Compiling & testing. 15:30:13 okay, dpeg has three iron chains, but where is the iron ball? 15:31:10 I think I need to go to sleep before this compile finishes. :D 15:31:15 Cheers! 15:31:16 * greensnark hands Keskitalo a trout-shaped cookie. 15:32:09 these bailey downstairs take me to another bailey level 15:32:11 too bad they dont have anything 15:32:14 nice 15:32:32 oops, an escape hatch took me out 15:32:44 that is quite the level 15:34:09 syllogism: Go finish the game already :P 15:34:32 Folks, if you can be bothered, please comment on the Armour training idea. http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:armour_training 15:36:09 Items with {was cursed} inscription show up in red in inventory. (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=589) by evktalo 15:36:23 Keskitalo: that is easy to fix 15:36:28 "the constructs glare at each other"? 15:36:50 doy: One of them is friendly and the other hostile 15:36:56 A bake off :P 15:36:58 heh 15:37:58 finally took the amulet of faith off, been wearing it since like d6 :P 15:38:12 aw 15:38:37 currently, there is 15:38:38 menu = red: cursed 15:39:01 menu = red: {cursed should do the trick? 15:39:06 no 15:39:14 \{cursed ? 15:39:20 fucking regexes :) 15:39:24 that won't get regular cursed items 15:39:34 as far as i know 15:39:47 menu = red: (a|the) cursed 15:39:51 is probably what you want 15:40:16 menu = red: (an?|the) cursed 15:40:24 thanks 15:40:25 actually, no, that's unnecessary 15:40:30 the first one is best 15:42:12 also, is there an fr for menucoloring ^F results? 15:42:25 no, but should 15:42:26 03dpeg * ra2f2d6413a47 10/crawl-ref/settings/menu_colours.txt: Fix {was cursed} lines being coloured red. 15:42:39 Thanks! :) 15:42:39 okay, gotta run 15:42:47 -!- dpeg____ has quit ["leaving"] 15:42:54 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:44:32 "Is there any way to edit the doll, instead of just picking out of a few choices? I used to like the fact that I could have a few things go by equipment (chest, gloves, boots, etc) but I'd really like to put pants on my guy." 15:44:36 heh 15:44:47 What a pervert! 15:45:13 Quiver cycling! That's missing from the new firing. 15:45:23 Sounds like a new Olympic event 15:45:24 No it's not! 15:45:42 I just only had the xploding darts then! 15:46:18 * greensnark sedates Keskitalo and tucks him into bed. 15:46:39 is this what -offtopic is like? 15:46:39 with a rubber trout 15:46:49 TGWi: A little! 15:47:20 Now I get to go and try to sleep after quaffing like six cups of black coffee since midnight 15:47:28 * greensnark hies himself off to bed. 15:52:51 where's the new formula for ac? 16:06:25 encouraging not wearing a robe is bad 16:06:37 what? 16:07:28 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:armour_training 16:07:38 robe stealth penalty :| 16:08:13 yes, i like the one based on evp better 16:08:31 although it's not like the other one would encourage not wearing a robe in any meaningful sense 16:08:53 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:56 -!- Twinge- has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:12 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:44 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:45 -!- henryci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:55 -!- neunon has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:18 cryp71c: implement summon corner for xom 16:58:14 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:58:53 TGWi, summon corner? 16:59:10 exactly what it sounds like 17:01:54 TGWi, xom moves you to the corner of the room? 17:03:51 -!- Timbermaw has quit ["later!"] 17:15:21 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 17:15:43 -!- Xiberia has quit [] 17:18:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:05 -!- Eifel has left ##crawl-dev 17:34:38 -!- Mu_ has quit ["Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place."] 17:36:42 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:07 I should. 18:08:08 due: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:08:12 !messages 18:08:12 (1/3) greensnark said (5h 12m 32s ago): Why not allow Mara in Zot as well! 18:08:15 !messages 18:08:15 (1/2) doy said (2h 45m 31s ago): sometime soon you should make a summary playtesting post with these issues http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:testing_and_polish_needed_for_0.6_release#feedback_requested 18:08:19 !messages 18:08:19 (1/1) doy said (2h 40m 4s ago): just an idea, not intending to sound pushing! 18:08:26 doy: Good idea! 18:14:05 -!- Turbo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:36 !tell by turn speed is still not *quite* at 0.5 levels, but is more than acceptable now. thanks! 18:16:36 doy: OK, I'll let by know. 18:17:49 Any complaints on the random monster energy thing on CDO yet? :D 18:18:02 i like it! 18:18:16 I haven't seen it yet 18:18:21 and tgw flipped out! 18:18:24 (as expected) 18:18:25 (: 18:18:42 aweosme :) 18:20:43 Any elemental rargh? 18:20:46 @??fire elemental 18:20:46 fire elemental (08#) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 504(fire) | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 195. 18:21:34 i don't hang out in ##crawl anymore, so... shrug! 18:21:37 :) 18:21:42 I meant in here 18:21:48 David was concerned but not objecting 18:22:06 why concerned? 18:22:17 not entirely sure. 18:22:20 can_travel_to is actaully "can_travel_to_level" not "can_travel_to_position" grrrr. 18:22:30 henryci: hehehe, don't you love it? 18:22:48 Well right now I'm really happy b/c I understand where my bug is. 18:23:04 so, yes! 18:23:09 there still should be a "point is accessible via travel" 18:23:15 you should ask greensnark 18:23:22 or better, haran 18:23:32 the overmap knows, so it exists somewhere! 18:25:00 I don't think overmap knows 18:25:04 I think it lists all the ones you've seen 18:25:07 whether they are accessible or not. 18:25:21 the overmap marks inaccessible tiles in cyan or darkgrey 18:25:28 and accessible tiles in blue 18:25:28 Ctrl+f knows but it does it via a pretty long winded way. 18:25:32 doy: X-map != overmap 18:25:34 and yes 18:25:39 OHHHH X-map. 18:25:42 travelsaquare is safe 18:25:45 X-map does it on the same level you are on. 18:25:46 I was futzing with it for traps 18:25:47 what do you call the overmap? 18:25:53 overmap is Ctrl+o 18:25:55 Overmap is ^O. 18:25:59 that's not a map 18:26:04 why would you call it that 18:26:06 overmap.cc :) 18:26:06 but it's overmap.cc :P 18:26:12 well, that's dumb 18:26:13 (: 18:26:15 yeah, agree 18:26:17 it should change 18:26:20 dgn-overview.cc maybe 18:26:24 yeah 18:26:31 the way ctrl+X works is it's on same level 18:26:39 which is different from inter level. 18:26:54 yeah. 18:27:01 yeah, you'd need info about stair connections 18:27:14 I think better to mark the altars as accessible or inaccessible when you see them 18:27:32 due: sometimes you can't tell though 18:27:45 doy: Hm. 18:27:51 and i think a "can we pathfind to this tile" would be a valuable thing to have in general 18:28:10 (one that includes tiles on other levels) 18:28:11 @??fire elemental 18:28:12 fire elemental (04i) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 504(fire) | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 195. 18:28:13 doy: Sure 18:28:40 there's an open bug currently where ^F doesn't actually sort by distance, since we don't really have any way of doing that currently 18:28:49 this would be a way to fix that too 18:29:19 his is hilarious.. 18:29:25 We get "too much info, plz to fix" 18:29:35 Now "omfg you deleted too much info fix it or I'll hate you" 18:29:40 ? 18:29:57 oh, the targeting stuff? 18:30:04 yeah 18:30:05 i very much agree with all of that 18:30:26 some of the stuff that was deleted is pretty irritating to play without 18:30:27 It's just amusing though, don't you think? 18:30:43 a bit, although not incredibly surprising since haran doesn't hang out on irc 18:30:46 (: 18:31:14 he can't hear all of our whining! 18:31:36 hehehe 18:32:10 @??earth elemental 18:32:11 earth elemental (08i) | Speed: 6 | HD: 6 | Health: 30-60 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Damage: 40 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++ | XP: 84. 18:32:13 So it sounds like for now the best thing to do is build this w/o marking inaccessible / accessible 18:32:23 henryci: 18:32:25 henryci: yeah, can leave that bit for later 18:32:25 Yeah. 18:32:30 That will just have to wait. 18:32:32 and then work on a "is tile accessible" function. 18:32:41 or actaully a "distance to level_pos" 18:32:46 Shouldn't itbe is_grid_accessible, though? 18:32:48 which returns the distance, or -1 if not doable. 18:32:50 tile means something else for us :) 18:32:57 curse you people and your words. 18:32:58 henryci: Yes, but you want to cache that. 18:32:59 due: i thought we were trying to change that 18:33:06 doy: I have no idea :/ 18:33:13 doy: We use cell and grid interchangeably, and tile occasionally. 18:33:16 distance_to_level_pos(const level_pos pos); 18:33:33 i vaguely remember someone (rob maybe) saying that we should stop using grid for individual tiles, since we also use it for actual grids 18:33:43 argh 18:33:45 cell, then. 18:33:48 but i don't know if we ever did anything about that 18:33:49 level_pos ? 18:33:56 in any case 18:34:00 caching that would be hard 18:34:10 because lots of changable things can invalidate the cache 18:34:24 hm 18:34:27 doing a walk-throuch would be expensive. 18:34:32 but you don't want to recalculate it each time 18:34:34 well 18:34:48 you can paths from the stairs to places on levels you aren't on 18:34:52 hmmm 18:35:00 You could just mark it grey if it was inaccessible the last time you saw it. 18:35:02 depends on if you want to respect trapwalk_safe_hp i guess 18:35:51 this is actually a problem we've put a decent amount of work into for taeb(: 18:36:30 I think the best thing to do now is just build this w/o accessible / inaccessible, and then prioritize trying to solve this for all tiles vs just altars, vs something else. 18:36:37 -!- Madtrixr has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client"] 18:36:38 yes 18:36:49 it wouldn't be that bad to do it for just altars 18:37:09 but if it's going to be done it mighta s well be done in a way that is helpful for other things. 18:37:13 since you could just cache each altar on a level to each staircase 18:37:17 and cache paths between staircases 18:37:33 I think finding path from staircase to position isn't so bad 18:37:36 and then you'd just have to do the actual pathfinding to the appropriate staircase on the level 18:37:37 such that you could generalize it for any position. 18:37:53 yeah, that part would still be necessary for the current level 18:38:00 but that's pretty easy 18:38:06 (and possibly already done) 18:38:59 What's the best way to start a discussion with everybody on pathing. A mantis ticket, mailing list email, or chat about it once I finish the inaptly-named-overmap changes? 18:39:07 henryci: wiki page 18:39:24 Wikipage! 18:39:30 naturally, a previously unknown fourth option. :) 18:39:49 url? 18:39:55 it'd be nice to do it generally for each tile... just whenever you leave a level, run dijkstra over the whole level, from each staircase, and cache the resulting paths 18:40:08 dijkstra <3 18:40:12 then you could just pathfind between staircases, and that would be entirely feasible 18:40:27 and you'd have the ability to quickly sort any tile in the dungeon by distance from you 18:41:19 it'd probably be relatively memory intensive though 18:41:23 in a naive implementation 18:41:28 hmmm 18:41:29 maybe not 18:41:35 The set isn't so bad. 18:41:59 maybe 30k per level or so 18:42:13 Ok, off to dinner, then submitting overmap, creating the wiki entry on this, and hopefully championing it. See ya'll in a bit. 18:42:20 see ya 18:42:21 (: 18:42:49 see ya :) 18:43:18 hooray, no glyph rargh! 18:44:34 doy: The non-monotonicity bug was with shields, but the shield codepath is completely different now 18:44:43 ah, okay 18:46:01 man, playing a stealthy fighter is fun 18:47:13 it is 18:49:48 J - the +3 shield of the Wilderness (worn) {rC+ Dex+2 Acc+2 Stlth+} 18:49:49 (: 18:51:08 Using portal_Desc markers and feature_description is broken :/ 18:51:48 I can't work out why, it should work 18:56:13 SpVm or SpBe? 18:56:15 Be, why not. 18:56:26 Or I could do SpFi of Fedhas... 19:02:03 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:56 Wait 19:05:02 I just got a "your armour prevents you from hitting xyz" 19:05:06 On a spriggan with a robe and a buckler 19:05:09 yes 19:05:11 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:14 that surely isn't the robe? 19:05:27 probably the buckler 19:05:31 hm 19:05:34 ??buckler 19:05:34 buckler[1/1]: 3 SH, 0 EV; impairs your spell success rates strictly less than losing 2.5 points of intelligence would. 19:05:38 shields 2! 19:05:43 ??robe 19:05:44 robe[1/1]: +2 ac 0 ev light armour 19:05:46 hmmm 19:05:55 neither have an ev penalty though 19:05:57 so not sure 19:06:14 i'm not familiar with the new formula at all 19:08:09 azrael, snorg, and rupert on vaults:2 19:08:10 fun! 19:12:32 and roxanne 19:17:23 03due 07wizlab * r6d6f4f443ae9 10/crawl-ref/ (79 files in 12 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into wizlab 19:19:34 03due 07vaults * r33d8a57eadca 10/crawl-ref/ (125 files in 15 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into vaults 19:32:09 Removal of timer on vaults (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=590) by fnwc 19:33:25 But... 19:33:28 The timers are the entire point. 19:35:09 it's true 19:35:19 what is? 19:35:28 "the timers are the entire point" 19:35:32 yeah 19:35:35 except for things like troves and ziggurats 19:35:39 which already don't have timers 19:35:48 If you can enter them at any time, then a) you ruin the threat level, as it's tailored for that level 19:35:53 you could just come back at XL15 or so 19:36:59 (this belongs as the 'reason' section for the closed (wont' fix) resolution) 19:40:49 * due closnig :) 19:51:46 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [] 19:52:06 murphyslaw--any relation to coleslaw? 19:52:55 * due hungry now. 20:11:34 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:27 78291 is having a fun time in lair, it seems 20:17:42 rupert, gastronok, lots of death yaks 20:26:46 mummies seem strange for part of a volcano monster set 20:27:01 It's the volcano tomb set 20:27:22 doesn't make them seem less strange d: 20:27:31 The layout is based on Tutankhamen's tomb! 20:27:34 But yeah. 20:27:42 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:47 I loved the idea of a temple dedicated in a volcano but the priests all died so they got mummified. 20:28:01 i'd find simulacra strange too d: 20:28:15 Heh 20:29:50 Okay 20:29:51 time to go out 20:30:24 Bah, need to write an is_identified wrapper for items, ga. :/ 20:30:37 If ~ISFLAG_KNOW_TYPE on a randart, you ddon't know the name, right? 20:31:09 not sure what KNOW_TYPE means 20:33:12 Me neither. 20:36:08 TGW sees to have a somewhat grasp of our design principles, hooray! 20:36:31 sometimes! 20:37:28 -!- purge has quit ["."] 20:38:38 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:16 doy: I was already planning on bumping swamp worms and sharks back down in XP. I was just going to wait until we submitted some of the other tweaks (size/weight/etc.) at the same time. 20:47:26 okay, good 20:50:23 I was thinking about kind of meeting it midway though - reduce xp some, but also boost their stats a little bit so they are still something of a threat 20:55:24 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:46 Hiya 21:00:13 * due testing the tileswater branch. 21:00:47 tileswater? 21:01:08 there's some weird alpha/opengl imeplementation issue with certain graphics cards 21:01:16 that make alpha transparencies craaazy 21:02:33 Monster/plant interaction needs tweaking (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=591) by OG17 21:11:10 -!- Giomancer has quit ["Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?"] 21:11:36 Gah. 21:12:50 I can't get ccache set up properly on this machine. grargh. 21:27:28 -!- nrook has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:44:47 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:57 -!- SiberSchool is now known as Siber 22:04:23 -!- pointless_ has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 22:21:47 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:48:14 @players 22:48:17 12 players: chukamok (L20 DSIE @ Vault:2, T:56957), evktalo (L12 HEAM @ Lair:6, T:25309), fiyawerx (L19 CeSt @ Lair:1, T:107020), hyperbolic (L15 OgPr @ D:17, T:41966), Kal (L18 DSAr @ Lair:2, T:86387), Kyrris (L7 SESu @ D:5, T:5957), MUMMY (L14 MuNe @ Orc:3, T:48826), murphyslaw (L9 DSPr @ D:9, T:7722), Stathol (L8 DECj @ D:5, T:9934), Yavar (L8 DDSu @ D:7, T:7677), yobbo (L14 KoTh @ Hive:2, T:40... 23:13:15 -!- Keskital1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:24 -!- zenna_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:39 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:58 -!- zenna has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:21:06 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 23:38:42 hmmm, i thought saint roka was canonically female? 23:50:17 um 23:50:34 that was a bit extreme 23:51:45 -!- zenna_ has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:53:46 what was 23:53:53 I feel like I'm missing half the discussion 23:53:58 mara killed me in two turns 23:54:03 i was xl18 23:54:09 on vault:3 23:54:15 Ouch 23:54:35 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:36 doy: Mara killed me in one turn yesterday, lightning bolt is really brutal 23:54:41 it really is 23:54:46 do the clones cast it too? 23:54:50 yes 23:54:52 yeah, they do 23:54:57 !lg doy 23:54:57 759. doy the Severer (L18 DrCr), worshipper of Yredelemnul, blasted by an illusion of Mara (bolt of lightning) (woven by Mara) on Vault:3 on 2010-01-28, with 184232 points after 54024 turns and 9:33:40. 23:54:57 since i was killed by one 23:55:06 -!- zenna has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:06 @?? mara 23:55:07 Mara (04R) | Speed: 10 | HD: 20 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 10/14 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(213), 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 7532 | Sp: mislead, mara summon, b.lightning, player ghost, pain, teleport self. 23:55:29 -!- Keskital1 has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:31 Why does mara have pain 23:56:32 !tv 23:56:32 759. doy, XL18 DrCr, T:54024 requested for FooTV. 23:59:10 ouch 23:59:28 -!- Giomancer has joined ##Crawl-Dev