00:07:31 <10PleasingFungus> https://crawl.kelbi.org/saves/wormbird2-crawl-git-6e2bebc5d0-220619-0405.tar.bz2 00:12:30 <10PleasingFungus> looks like this consistently happens once you have the rune 00:16:04 <10PleasingFungus> it wa sme 00:16:07 <10PleasingFungus> sorry all 00:21:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-634-g155753f734: Don't erode runelights 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/155753f73448 00:21:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-635-gc2a2f2613b: Don't cover the entire Abyss with exits 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2a2f2613b46 00:21:25 <10PleasingFungus> in retrospect, runelights weren't really needed after advil's changes 00:21:47 <10PleasingFungus> wonder if i should revert 00:22:35 <08nicolae> keep em as flavor features 00:32:44 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-635-gc2a2f2613b (34) 00:56:24 <09hellmonk> Make a new abyss monster called a runelight 00:57:16 <08nicolae> completely fuck with everyone who played a lot of abyss in trunk for the four days they were a feature 01:00:58 <10PleasingFungus> -5 abysmal aptitude -4 terrible aptitude (learning half as fast as at 0 aptitude) -3 very poor aptitude -2 poor aptitude -1 slightly disfavoured aptitude 0 standard aptitude +1 slightly favoured aptitude +2 strong aptitude +3 very strong aptitude +4 outstanding aptitude (learning twice as fast as at 0 aptitude) +5 exceptional aptitude new beard stats just dropped 01:01:45 <08nicolae> should expand the upper end now that gnolls have +6 or more 01:02:09 <12ebering> Choko aptitude 01:12:12 <10PleasingFungus> whoa, just got 'bus error (10)' from trying to view the skill screen on my branch 01:12:12 <10PleasingFungus> never gotten that crash before 01:12:28 <08nicolae> dman 01:12:31 <08nicolae> damn 01:19:48 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-636-gde4a49754e: text: add a description for the spriggan hatter 10(4 months ago, 2 files, 8+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de4a49754e46 01:19:48 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-637-gff17717bc1: text: remove quote db entries for deprecated items 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 52-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ff17717bc1ac 01:19:48 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-638-ge81f215762: fix: no godspeak entry for 'Xom zero miscast effect' 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e81f21576204 01:19:48 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-639-g29a8cdef9d: fix: undefined local entry '_ashenzari_heavens_' 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29a8cdef9dd9 01:20:15 <10PleasingFungus> ooh, PRs being merged! 01:20:18 <10PleasingFungus> ebering really is back 01:20:19 <10PleasingFungus> excellent 01:21:30 <12ebering> for a hot minute 01:26:29 <10PleasingFungus> huh, did you know we still marshall and unmarshall skill points gained from crosstraining? 01:26:31 <10PleasingFungus> like, old crosstraining 01:27:02 <12ebering> they're bytes in the save I guess 01:31:54 03hellmonk02 {ebering} 07[punished_grum] * 0.29-a0-640-gd0c25b80c2: feat: Grunn the Punished 10(4 months ago, 11 files, 48+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0c25b80c280 01:31:54 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[punished_grum] * 0.29-a0-641-gb59bef153c: text: add Grunn dialogue 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 37+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b59bef153cca 01:31:56 Branch pull/2459 updated to be equal with punished_grum: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2459 01:32:13 03hellmonk02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-640-gd0c25b80c2: feat: Grunn the Punished 10(4 months ago, 11 files, 48+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0c25b80c280 01:32:13 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-641-gb59bef153c: text: add Grunn dialogue 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 37+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b59bef153cca 01:32:31 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-639-g29a8cdef9d (34) 01:35:12 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-639-g29a8cdef9d (34) 01:35:53 03neo-bop02 {GitHub} 07* 0.29-a0-642-g3454511d3d: docs: fixed grammar mistake 10(3 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3454511d3d2d 01:38:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-643-ga013cefcf8: Remove obsolete code for throwing hunters 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a013cefcf896 01:38:58 New branch created: sling-away (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/sling-away 01:38:58 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-644-g87a4d54f6a: Remove weapon choice for Hu/AM 10(3 hours ago, 7 files, 21+ 67-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/87a4d54f6a14 01:38:58 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-645-g65142c4dd2: Merge ranged skills (ebering) 10(2 hours ago, 68 files, 196+ 328-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65142c4dd28e 01:57:00 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-643-ga013cefcf8 02:03:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-643-ga013cefcf8 (34) 02:54:35 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-643-ga013cefcf8 03:17:06 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-643-ga013cefcf8 (34) 03:43:55 Random thought: ranged skills being merged is gnoll buff. 03:46:37 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 06:14:34 <13Sastreii> Hi! I’m not sure i understood what i have to do…😅 some floor tiles with glowing runes/crystals? Since those appear nearby the abyssal rune i have to use abyss floor tiles? 06:22:23 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 07:26:16 <12ebering> good ideas from dilly's cwz chat 07:26:39 <12ebering> new ranged attack patterns: focused shot, for the stealth stand still till they notice you then assasinate play 08:29:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-643-ga013cef (34) 09:36:02 <10PleasingFungus> sast: ah, nevermind, sorry… advil added a better feature, so i think i’ll probably revert the runelights 09:39:49 <13Sastreii> Oh ok! I still have a lot of things to do anyway 😜 10:33:50 <12ebering> Ooos, forgot to push the change log and now I’m goin to the beach 10:35:55 Oldest excuse in the book. 10:40:45 <12ebering> @advil if you could make a pin when you ge the chance https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-19-june-2022 10:40:47 <12ebering> Oops 10:41:18 <12ebering> https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/vfwm3v/trunk_updated_19_june_2022/ 10:41:29 <12ebering> Pardon the typo I’m out of practice 10:46:53 Whoa, I got name dropped. I should read these more often. 10:47:38 (Also, awesome write up as usual :) ) 10:54:14 Huh, I didn't see the airstrike change. I really dig it—always been a fan of that spells gimmick. 10:56:36 >Formicids can now wield giant (spiked) clubs. 10:56:55 I'm going to pretend you stole this change from us :-) 11:02:50 <10PleasingFungus> really we stole it from ourselves 11:02:54 <10PleasingFungus> in the past 11:02:57 <09hellmonk> I only steal the finest content from other forks 11:03:07 <09hellmonk> Also lmao that grunn got merged 11:07:56 We also stole it from past you to be fair 11:09:37 Time loop! 11:53:16 <12ebering> I was in a merging mood 11:53:23 <12ebering> Doom hounds are ez to hex 11:53:27 <12ebering> It’ll be fine 12:07:55 <06advil> fwiw I like the flavor of these and I think they could be fun to use more generally / programmatically, e.g. use them in rune vaults outside of the abyss, programmatically sprinkle them around levels (or the abyss) depending on distance from rune, but them next to stairs to a rune level, etc 12:09:18 <06advil> while testing out the rune detection stuff, I was mostly using tiles, and it was actually noticeable to me (literally never played an abyss rune on tiles before) how much the rune themed tiles impacted flavor even though I knew right where the rune was 12:11:11 <10PleasingFungus> ah, cool! 12:13:40 <05kate> i wonder if they'd also be good to use in the guaranteed pan rune vaults? since those are also a spot where vault-recognising skills are a little bit of a spoiler issue 12:13:50 <06advil> yeah, good idea 12:13:56 <05kate> much less so than abyss since the level gets announced now, but could still be nice 12:15:02 <10PleasingFungus> @Sastreii i am told i should keep runelights after all. they are a floor tile with a special name, to help players tell when they’re near a rune vault. the idea is that they have several (currently 4) ‘frames’, so that they animate when the player moves - they’re stone tiles with glowing lights that move around. 12:16:23 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/988115035727470612/image0.jpg 12:16:23 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/988115035941388379/image1.jpg 12:16:24 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/988115036142727209/image2.jpg 12:16:24 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/988115036356628540/image3.jpg 12:16:39 <10PleasingFungus> current placeholder tiles 12:16:57 <10PleasingFungus> > An unearthly, glittering light, floating and twisting in midair. A Rune of Zot is surely nearby, its power overspilling to cause this spectacular sight. 12:18:39 <10PleasingFungus> you can really make it look however you like, as long as it looks like players can walk on it & it looks eye-catching 12:19:38 <10PleasingFungus> i hope that’s clearer..? sorry for confusion 12:41:00 It's not possible to do an arena of "random v same random thing", right? 12:47:17 <10PleasingFungus> probably is 12:47:23 <10PleasingFungus> try ‘any monster’ 12:48:43 <05kate> i don't think there's an easy way to do "pick a random monster, and then have it fight another one of itself" if that's what you're asking? 12:49:00 that's what it sounded like to me, arena version of \1 12:58:36 <13Sastreii> Ooh ok so the lights are floating, i see 13:00:34 <13Sastreii> Btw about the Grunn merging, remember that i did a tile for him I can re-upload that here in case you missed 13:06:32 <10PleasingFungus> https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/949067104265601086 here, i think? 13:12:52 Yeah, I wanted to do what kate said. Idea was I wanted to fairly compare weapons where I needed a variety of resists to be possible 13:13:15 I'm also not sure why you're only limited to 99 rounds, which seems kinda arbitrary. 13:15:03 <13Sastreii> Yeah, wow that was more than 3 months ago 13:16:14 perryprog, iirc that was to keep someone from hanging the arena with "!fight butterfly v butterfly" which would never terminate 13:16:32 Oh, that's fair I guess 13:17:09 (To be specific, I meant the rounds parameter, not the total number of turns allowed, but the same argument applies there.) 13:39:05 Flure (L17 KoBr) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 678: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Swamp:3) 13:40:11 one could argue the limit shouldn't apply to offline used but I think that might be harder than just making it always apply 13:40:40 hm, come to think of it I'm not sure even one round of that butterfly v butterfly is safe 13:41:03 I do recall it being used as an example in the arena docs 13:41:20 huh, I figured there'd be a turn limit as well but seems that isn't the case 13:42:11 that seems mildly weak in terms of DOS potential though, unless you have a bot hooked up to run it synchronously without any timeout, in which case... 13:43:31 ??varmin 13:43:32 varmin[1/2]: Varmin is the bot that reads !fight commands from the irc channel, see {!fight} 13:43:46 although I think varmin hasn't been seen in a while 13:44:29 possibly for this reason 13:52:40 bed (L22 FoFi) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D (Sprint)) 14:19:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-644-g0428525265: Grunn tile (Sastreii) 10(43 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0428525265b5 14:28:03 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-645-ge8efa2268b: Don't show item hints for corpses in tiles 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8efa2268bc2 14:32:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-645-ge8efa2268b (34) 14:33:18 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-646-gda25f7726e: Fix a misleading rune message 10(6 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da25f7726ef1 14:36:25 <06advil> Haha oops, come to think of it, I don’t know if I ever actually tested that 14:36:59 <10PleasingFungus> fun fun 14:37:09 <06advil> Should maybe clear that prop, though I do t know if it matters 14:40:00 <10PleasingFungus> probably should clear it whenever you leave abyss 14:42:59 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-647-gb07f931dc7: Remove the old ct_skills array 10(81 seconds ago, 6 files, 5+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b07f931dc75d 14:52:24 <10PleasingFungus> considering removing the crossbow "mindelay 1" gimmick 14:52:28 <10PleasingFungus> for the sake of simplicity 14:52:41 <10PleasingFungus> (as part of merging all ranged weapon skills together) 15:05:53 <06advil> it is cleared when you leave abyss, but that's implemented elsewhere 15:06:21 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-647-gb07f931dc7 (34) 15:06:45 <10PleasingFungus> nice 15:06:48 <10PleasingFungus> seems fine then 15:10:37 <05kate> it seems like there'd probably be too many types of similar ranged weapon if crossbows lose that gimmick (also possibly even if they don't? i don't have strong feelings about the gimmick itself either way) 15:11:19 <06advil> it did also seem to me like if the skills collapsed, there's a lot going on for one skill 15:13:51 <06advil> though maybe that's already even true for three skills after ammo removal (occurred to me when getting a bunch of ranged wn starts of various types incl a xbow + bows start recently) 15:15:51 <10PleasingFungus> kate: there are 7 lbls, 5 axes, 8 polearms (7 not counting scythe), 8 m&f (not counting giant/spiked clubs). 7 ranged weapons doesn't seem unreasonable to me 15:16:40 <05kate> right, axes setting a good example there but there's still too many for all the others too really 15:16:44 <10PleasingFungus> ha 15:16:52 <10PleasingFungus> think you could cut 'whip' pretty easily 15:17:02 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i forgot clubs existed. 9 m&f 15:17:06 <12ebering> Pikel screams in agony 15:17:09 <10PleasingFungus> lol 15:17:16 <10PleasingFungus> this is why we need flavour weapon renames! 15:17:21 <10PleasingFungus> reskins. w/e 15:17:24 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-648-g6b26cc9f40: fix: generalize a bit of abyss rune code 10(75 seconds ago, 3 files, 13+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b26cc9f40db 15:19:14 <12ebering> I have a sketch of a merged host of ranged weapons 15:19:16 <05kate> i feel like one of hunting sling/hand crossbow and one of fustibalus/shortbow ought to be cut at least, if the skills are all merged 15:19:17 <10PleasingFungus> hm, merging ranged weapons means gn get about 7% more skill xp 15:19:17 <12ebering> It cuts some 15:19:41 <10PleasingFungus> undecided whether i need to do something to comp gn 15:19:43 <12ebering> Still at the beach tho 15:19:48 <10PleasingFungus> at the beach......... 15:20:15 <10PleasingFungus> kate: i can see sling/hand xbow, but what's the connection between fusti and shortbow? 15:20:44 <10PleasingFungus> (think we have to keep the ones that are more iconic and widely used in vaults, etc, so sling / shortbow stay for sure - fusti & hand xbow are very peripheral) 15:21:05 <10PleasingFungus> (i have a WIP branch that removes fusti, haven't decided whether i want to continue with it tho) 15:21:50 <05kate> they're just the next set up of pretty similar stats with only 1 difference in damage (7/8/9/10 damage for each of the weapons i listed) 15:22:05 <10PleasingFungus> right, please just assume those numbers aren't real and don't mean anything 15:22:08 <10PleasingFungus> the current ones 15:22:12 <10PleasingFungus> i'm really planning on reshuffling everything 15:22:36 <10PleasingFungus> (ebering has plans too, so i'll wait until he's back from beach to merge) 15:23:10 <12ebering> I was thinking more in terms of gameplay slots (flavor pending): Starter weapon Slow easy to train 1h Fast harder to train 1h Baby 2h Fast 2h Slow 2h 15:23:38 <12ebering> Unsure if fast/slow 2h should have the same or opposite skipping 15:23:44 <10PleasingFungus> skipping? 15:23:52 <12ebering> skilling 15:23:55 <10PleasingFungus> hm 15:26:17 <05kate> axes really are the ideal example skill imo, in terms of the slots each type fills being actually notably distinct 15:26:22 <10PleasingFungus> my feeling is that i'd want something like: - starter (1h? 2h? tbd) [hand axe] - basic upgrade [war axe equivalent] (1h/2h also tbd) - battleaxe-equivalent (big, 2h, will get one eventually, good enough to finish with) - exec axe-equivalent (rare, 2h, very expensive to skill, huge damage) - good 1h [scimitar/morningstar equivalent] - really good rare 1h [double sword/eveningstar equivalent] 15:26:28 <06advil> did you mean the post title to be "Trunk Updates 19 June 2022"? 15:26:41 <12ebering> I did but it’s too late to change 15:26:49 <10PleasingFungus> ha, kate and i are almost in sync 15:27:00 <06advil> oh, I guess titles can't be edited 15:27:05 <10PleasingFungus> rip 15:27:38 <05kate> axes just don't have a demon axe or whatever which is fine imo (and i don't think ranged weapons particularly need one either) 15:28:03 <10PleasingFungus> i suppose punk could always be the demon axe 15:28:08 <10PleasingFungus> as obsidian axe is 15:28:17 <10PleasingFungus> not that punk is as cool as obsaxe, but still 15:28:28 <05kate> there's lots of pretty cool ranged weapon unrands though, yeah 15:28:32 <10PleasingFungus> sure 15:29:22 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, putting names on those, maybe: - starter [hand axe]: sling - basic upgrade [war axe]: shortbow - battleaxe: longbow - exec axe: 3xbow - broad axe: hand crossbow hand crossbow would be the biggest change, would have to make its stats way cooler 15:29:50 <10PleasingFungus> hrm 15:29:54 <10PleasingFungus> not sure what to do with arbalests 15:30:01 <12ebering> (My heart has a soft spot for an “inverse demon weapon” for the hand xbow) 15:30:02 <10PleasingFungus> i sort of want them around somewhere for yaktaurs 15:30:11 <10PleasingFungus> i-inverse demon weapon..!? 15:30:41 <12ebering> Easy to train, rare, but slow and big dam 15:30:46 <10PleasingFungus> oh 15:30:48 <06advil> why not drop hand crossbow and put arbalests in that category 15:30:50 <05kate> arbalest being the broad axe equivalent sort of makes sense to me but then we're into bikeshedding 15:30:59 <10PleasingFungus> well, arbalest is 2h 15:31:14 <10PleasingFungus> i guess we could make all yaktaurs super cool hand crossbow users 15:31:18 <10PleasingFungus> feels funny 15:31:24 <10PleasingFungus> not good funny 15:31:57 <10PleasingFungus> ebering: right, i guess that'd be an 'inverse' in terms of the stats, but not in terms of where it fits in the 'loot hierarchy' or 'player progression' - i'm more focused on the latter rn 15:32:06 <10PleasingFungus> my feeling is that stats can fall out of which role we want the weapon to play 15:33:25 <05kate> i guess flavour-wise most of our ranged weapons are 2-handed, shortbows in your example list are in a 1-handed slot too 15:33:30 <10PleasingFungus> oh, variant pitch: make shortbow the starter weapon, arbalest the basic upgrade, and slings a weird sidegrade you can find around 15:34:02 <05kate> mostly being two-handers could also just be a thing that differentiates ranged weapons 15:34:06 <10PleasingFungus> sure 15:34:17 <10PleasingFungus> i'm in favor of that 15:34:31 <10PleasingFungus> sort of like staves 15:34:34 <10PleasingFungus> (sort of!) 15:36:06 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-648-g6b26cc9f40 (34) 15:36:59 <10PleasingFungus> ??objstat[2 15:36:59 <04Cerebot> objstat[2/2]: Spreadsheets for all released versions and trunk: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8?resourcekey=0-USiftCbTwRlT9M7Uz5Fskg&usp=sharing/ ; See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 15:40:11 <12ebering> So the role that I see a hand xbow playing is similar to a demon weapon: a rare, late, cheaper to train sidegrade 15:40:13 <10PleasingFungus> arbalests are currently mostly in Snake and Vaults. Decent chance to find one in D, or in that one Orc ending. longbows are about as common in D and Orc as arbalests are. Also very common in Snake and fairly common in Vaults. Need to find some way to differentiate the two in terms of placement - or cut one, but i'd be heartbroken to lose the iconic yaktaur weapon, probably. 15:40:20 Dumb question: do real-world one-handed bows/crossbows exist, and are they actually any good? 15:40:32 (And slightly off-topic, sorry) 15:40:38 <10PleasingFungus> perryprog: approximately no. some were made as novelties, but they wouldn't work worth a damn 15:40:53 Yeah figured. 15:41:02 <10PleasingFungus> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/brlsek/comment/ep0zbsa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 15:41:28 <10PleasingFungus> luckily, dcss isn't limited by such things 🙂 15:43:45 <10PleasingFungus> shortbow is currently very common in D, which is good if we want it to be a basic upgrade. also common in elf, snake and vaults, which doesn't matter. hunting slings are actually quite rare outside shoals. we might need to hand them out to something in D (centaurs?) if we wanted them to be a plausible early swap. 15:43:52 Heck yeah :) 15:45:11 Aside, someone whom I used to work with had a mini-hand-crossbow in their office which was very fun. You could shoot it across the room to hit the light-switch and turn off the lights. 15:49:59 <10PleasingFungus> nice 16:06:25 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-648-g8f2006f854: Remove weapon choice for Hu/AM 10(17 hours ago, 7 files, 21+ 67-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8f2006f854f2 16:06:25 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-649-ge21cb3ecc8: Merge ranged skills (ebering) 10(17 hours ago, 69 files, 224+ 346-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e21cb3ecc8bf 16:06:25 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-650-g29c571d74e: Tweak titles 10(75 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29c571d74efe 16:06:25 03PleasingFungus02 07[sling-away] * 0.29-a0-651-g639b10673c: Remove hunting from slings 10(18 minutes ago, 24 files, 34+ 34-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/639b10673c2f 16:08:36 <08nicolae> if ranged weapons get merged, that frees up "sharpshooter" to get used to replace "marksman" and make it more generic 16:09:24 <10PleasingFungus> as in, arcane marksperson? 16:09:31 <08nicolae> is it marksperson now? 16:09:38 <10PleasingFungus> ??gham guide 16:09:40 <04Cerebot> gham guide[1/1]: THE ULTYMATE RESISTANCES OF THE GHOUL COMBINED WITH POWYRFUL CLAW ATTACKS + RANGED SUPERIORITY FROM OF THE ARKANE MARKSPERSON MAKES THE GHAM THE POWER CLASS OF 0.8, 0.10, AND 0.11. GO FOR SPLINT MAIL FOR MAXIMUM PROTECTION + FLEXIBILITY // - THIS GUIDE BY SLAUGHTRO POWER CRAWLMASTER X 16:09:48 <10PleasingFungus> it is always marksperson in my heart 16:09:54 <08nicolae> understandable 16:10:09 <10PleasingFungus> i did mispell arkane thi 16:10:14 <10PleasingFungus> smh 16:11:16 <10PleasingFungus> i kinda like 'hexbow' but iirc kate or someone thought it was too generic fantasy WoW-ish 16:11:35 <10PleasingFungus> also only works if we start em with bows, ofc 16:11:57 <05kate> not me, that's the first i've seen hexbow suggested! 16:12:03 <10PleasingFungus> apologies for slander 16:12:14 <10PleasingFungus> or possibly libel 16:13:47 <05kate> although i will admit that my first instinct is sort of in that direction, i'm pro-renaming AM in general so i wouldn't particularly object to it 16:14:11 <10PleasingFungus> it's just such a long name. 16:15:14 <05kate> the only past ideas i remember are things like arcane sniper, which i guess previously overlapped with Assassin's abbreviation? 16:15:22 <10PleasingFungus> ooh 16:15:24 <10PleasingFungus> haha 16:15:33 <10PleasingFungus> clearly just make em Ar... wait... 16:15:43 <10PleasingFungus> Arcane sNiper 16:16:00 <10PleasingFungus> also imo you don't get to be a sniper at xl 1. you're not cool enough yet 16:16:10 <08nicolae> is Ranger too lotr 16:16:15 <08nicolae> Arcane Ranger 16:16:18 <08nicolae> Arcanger 16:16:22 <10PleasingFungus> anger 16:16:42 <12ebering> Arcranger 16:17:00 <12ebering> Press the arcran button on your calculator 16:17:15 <08nicolae> "danger is my... background name" 16:17:53 <09gammafunk> don't bring mayflytaurs into this, please 16:21:38 <10PleasingFungus> !classwords ac 16:21:43 <04Cerebot> Baac DEac Dgac Djac Drac Dsac Feac Foac Ghac Gnac Grac HOac Huac Koac Meac Mfac Miac Muac Naac Ogac Opac Paac Spac Teac Trac VSac Vpac 16:21:51 <10PleasingFungus> drac!!! 16:22:01 <09gammafunk> you're getting off trac 16:22:06 <10PleasingFungus> i am. 16:22:49 .oO { i thought we used mantis, not trac } 16:23:03 <09gammafunk> oh 16:23:28 <09gammafunk> if we did arcane ranger, it would be somewhat awkard in that people would guess that its abbreviation is AR when that's the existing artificer 16:23:33 <10PleasingFungus> yeah 16:23:40 <10PleasingFungus> likewise arcranger 16:25:10 <12ebering> back from the beach but it's also sleepy time 16:25:13 <10PleasingFungus> zzz 16:27:17 <12ebering> here's my refined pitch for ranged weapons: - starter: sling - stepping stone: shortbow - battle/broad axe-ish roles: longbow and arbalest - exe axe: 3xbow - weird rare sidegrade that plays different (dire flail more than demon weapon I guess): hand xbow 16:28:06 <10PleasingFungus> think that's broadly where i'd landed as wel 16:28:11 <12ebering> I like the xbow always min delay 1 gimmick but maybe I'm just nostalgic. Think there's a tradeoff in "punchy but slower" and "more fast like melee" that gives a different feel depending on brands found/enchant spending etc 16:28:13 <10PleasingFungus> it's sort of weird that arbalest and longbow overlap so much 16:28:23 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe it's ok with brand and mindelay stuff 16:28:23 <12ebering> could maybe lean into it 16:28:31 <12ebering> make long bow 0.6 and nerf damage 16:28:57 <12ebering> so that the avEffDam of a +0 is roughly the same, but w/brands and spells and all that you might want one or the other 16:29:12 <10PleasingFungus> hm, would you have to do some rapier like thing of messing with mindelay rules? 16:29:26 <10PleasingFungus> if we want it to take like 18-20 skill or something 16:29:34 <12ebering> I dunno, didn't think too hard about that aspect of it 16:29:36 <12ebering> probably 16:29:38 <10PleasingFungus> fair 16:31:10 <09gammafunk> @advil question for you, as someone who understands crawl input issues better than probably anyone else. I have the following lua function: lua function magicfind(target, secondary) -- this will be turned on again in ready() offlevel_travel = false if secondary then crawl.sendkeys(control('f') .. target .. "\r", arrowkey('d'), "\r\r" .. string.char(27) .. string.char(27) .. string.char(27)) else 16:31:11 magic(control('f') .. target .. "\r\r\r") end end In this case, magic("altar of the shining one") works fine, sending "altar of the shining one" (followed by three escapes), which works and the client performs the action you'd expect (travel to the altar). But if secondary is true, I'm attemping to use crawl.sendkeys() to do an alternate sequence that sends "altar of the shining one arrow>" (followed by three escapes). Here arrowkey('d') send the keycode for down arrow, or -253, which crawl.sendkeys() should handle as a keycode. What seems to happen is that my keycode gets turned into the key sequence - 2 5 3, despite the fact that I'm sure the type of arrowkey is a lua number and not a string. 16:31:43 <09gammafunk> that is, arrowkey is just: lua function arrowkey(c) local a2c = { ['u'] = -254, ['d'] = -253, ['l'] = -252 ,['r'] = -251 } return a2c[c] end 16:32:20 <09gammafunk> oh, and what magic does is send stuff through crawl.process_keys() 16:33:29 <09gammafunk> I should also mention that I've specifically unbound down arrow key to prevent the command from doing anything should the search fail. This whole thing is basically so I can have secondary search selection not perform an ingame action if it fails 16:34:22 I wonder if a gimmick where you could spend "." turns to "charge up" some ranged weapon (probably a longbow) to deal more damage/have higher accuracy would be interesting. 16:37:47 can someone reset my password on berotato? 16:37:49 <09gammafunk> But I've read both the docs and the implementation for crawl.sendkeys(), and from what I'm seeing, it should handle keycodes properly 16:38:20 <09gammafunk> zhov: Is your email on cbr2 current? 16:38:31 yeah it should be 16:38:31 <09gammafunk> as in, you can access it to receive a confirmation email 16:39:48 <09gammafunk> @ZureaL could you do a password reset for zhov if you have a chance? If not, we can wait for advil to be around. The email on file should work. Apologies if you want all such requests to go through advil (or someone else) 16:40:06 <09gammafunk> and to be clear, the username is zhov 16:40:32 righto! 17:32:54 <06advil> I can probably do it, one sec 17:33:27 <06advil> would be nice to enable the web version of this once we have an admin vs wizard distinction 17:36:16 thank you advil 17:36:20 <06advil> zhov: I sent a reset to the email on file, it times out rather quickly so let me know if it doesn't work 17:36:31 <06advil> np 17:36:46 all good - it worked :) 17:37:05 <06advil> great! 17:38:49 <06advil> @gammafunk quick guess from just looking at that, what happens when you concatenate a number with a string in lua? I can't remember for sure but I'd guess it's the use of .. there that is casting the number to a string, and then everything down the chain treats it that way 17:41:02 <09gammafunk> actually, you'll note that the keycode is a second argument in that call 17:41:07 doesn't look to me like it's being concatrnated there 17:41:22 s/r/e/ 17:41:46 <09gammafunk> it's sort of weird because I am doing concat for some of the earlier input, because that's most convenient, but yeah the keycode is the second (number) argument 17:42:14 <09gammafunk> but from what I can tell, it's getting converted into a sequence of inputs (the minus followed by the individual digits) 17:42:49 <09gammafunk> everything looks ok looking at the l-crawl.cc function until it goes into C++ side SendKeys method, but from there I don't know what happens 17:43:43 <09gammafunk> it's all pretty silly, guess it points to how it'd be nice to have a clua interface to the stash, but then I'd need to remind myself "patches welcome" 17:44:19 * geekosaur wonders if you have to do a separate crawl.sendkeys with the numeric arg 17:44:32 <09gammafunk> possibly worth trying 17:44:41 <09gammafunk> but looking at the implementation it shouldn't b needed 17:45:00 because while that may work on the lua side, c++ seems rather less likely to be polymorphic that way 17:45:09 <09gammafunk> sendkeys is a variadic function that allows each argument to be string, number, or list of said previous two 17:45:20 <09gammafunk> hrm 17:46:23 <09gammafunk> geekosaur, looking at the implementation, it does actually call SendKeysBuffer.push_back(key); one key at a time 17:47:13 <09gammafunk> the lua-side c++ implementation goes through the lua stack arguments, turning e.g. strings into a sequence of keys (ints), and turning a number into an int 17:48:09 <09gammafunk> For now I've disabled this secondary altar search result attempt code so I can work on other problems qw has with conversion (sigh) 17:53:19 oh right, lua parms/returns are passed on the lua stack and can be lua typed, instead of being limited to c++ types 18:03:39 <06advil> oh, I was misreadingwhere the arrow key was used 18:23:44 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.29-a0-648-g6b26cc9f40 (34) 19:54:10 Is it intentional that spectral weapons don't build Usk piety since this? (I assume so, but just want to make sure for totally innocuous reasons.) 19:54:10 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.29-a0-326-g28c3e03cda: Give Usk piety for summons and such 10(10 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28c3e03cda38 19:54:10 %git 28c3e03 20:06:47 <06advil> It appears to me that the crawl_sendkeys_proc is, and has always been, wrong, because lua_isstring according to the docsreturns true for either a number or a string (lua_isnumber also returns true for a string if the string is coercible to a number, not exactly sure when that is true but it would clearly be wrong here also). 20:08:02 <06advil> I found some se answer that suggests checking exact type via lua_type, I think making the first condition a check against LUA_TSTRING using that might work? 20:10:55 <12ZureaL> @gammafunk @advil sorry guys, was celebrating fathers day with my youngest brother. Looks like things got handled, sorry I wasn't around 20:11:06 <06advil> and by "always" here I mean that that code goes back to the integrated travel patch :PlogChamp: 20:11:42 <06advil> no problem @ZureaL , it's probably easier for me to reconstruct how to do that anyways 20:11:47 <06advil> happy father's day 20:14:21 <06advil> I wonder how many other places in our codebase make this mistake 20:15:30 <09gammafunk> wow, thanks a lot! If I'd spent a little more time digging I'd have found that. Wonder how many people doing lua have gotten messed up by that 20:16:28 <09gammafunk> does seem odd that lua_isstring and lua_isnumber work that way, but maybe this isn't the use case for those functions 20:16:40 <06advil> I think they're just applying standard lua coercion rules 20:18:31 <06advil> so it's returning true because any number can act as a string in lua 20:18:53 <06advil> but yeah, this is very lua-y weirdness 20:18:59 <09gammafunk> yeah, we need a direct type check 20:19:24 <06advil> I read crawl_sendkeys_proc and my lua weirdness senses tingled enough for me to google this 20:19:33 <09gammafunk> haha 20:20:31 <09gammafunk> I'm still mad at myself for reading so much qw and the entire l-crawl.cc implementations and figuring out keycodes and such, but still being stuck only because I didn't look into two simple lua functions 20:20:41 <09gammafunk> gotta always question your assumptions when debugging 20:24:17 <09gammafunk> I'm not 100% sure if this ever worked for qw, but the breakage that lead to me attempting this route was because qw has no way to properly interface with stash, so it has to send keys (previously via crawl.process_keys()) to interface with ctrl-f and see if anything happened by doing a turn comparison. But this is very awkward if the keys you can send could translate into some irrelevant action. In the case of the "primary" altar 20:24:18 match, it was sending ctrl-fa, which tries to open the ability menu if ctrl-f finds nothing 20:24:49 <09gammafunk> but it also has a fallback to try to choose the secondary match on b for the ctrl-f results if attempting to travel to the a match fails 20:25:00 <09gammafunk> but of course b actually performs a vikeys movement action in this case 20:25:28 <09gammafunk> so that totally screws up qw, having it move diagonally down-left until it runs into a wall 20:25:48 <09gammafunk> hence my hack will be to have the alternate search use down arrow key instead of b 20:26:23 <09gammafunk> not really sure if recentish menu changes made these ctrl-f actions go from doing nothing after hitting no matches and pressing e.g. a or b to doing something 20:27:01 <09gammafunk> maybe this will motivate me to make a proper clua stash interface, but no idea how feasible that is 20:37:27 <06advil> I don't remember it ever showing an empty menu if there's no matches at all, but it's entirely possible it did at some point 20:38:51 <06advil> A simple hack to get things going might be to start by adding a lua function that returns the number of results to a stash search query 20:38:53 <09gammafunk> yeah, my suspicious is that this never really worked properly in terms of avoiding erroneous actions 20:39:12 <06advil> much easier than writing one that actually gives you those results in a data structure 20:39:16 <09gammafunk> right, could be a start 20:39:29 <06advil> and still worth having anyways 20:40:06 <09gammafunk> I will probably just fix the relevant sendkeys clua implementation and go with my use of (unbound) down arrow keycodes for now, in part because it'd be good to have sendkeys clua working properly 20:48:52 <09hellmonk> has anyone else looked at the MUT_READ_SAFETY pr yet 20:52:36 <09gammafunk> the language "You rarely lose the ability to read scrolls when taking damage." is pretty awkward due to how people usually use the phrase "you rarely" 20:52:57 <09gammafunk> I'm not sure how those levels translate to actual chances, but could it be ocassionally/sometimes/often ? 20:53:21 <09gammafunk> the gist of the pr seems pretty reasonable 20:53:49 <09hellmonk> yeah, I am more looking for feedback on the overall approach, seems kind of ugly to use this mutlevel parameter once and then use the default in the other place but I don't really want to say "please also make lose drink 3 mutlevels 20:54:32 <09gammafunk> seems to me that mut_level probably should be a required argument 20:54:40 <09gammafunk> can't imagine there are many callers 20:54:55 <09hellmonk> yeah, the other caller is drink safety, right below the read safety one 20:55:19 <09hellmonk> but if you're conditioning chance on mutlevel and making new level 3 equal to old level 1 then mut_drink_safety needs to become 3 mutlevels to match 20:56:16 <09hellmonk> which the pr gets around by just making mutlevel = 3 the default parameter and not passing it for drink safety at all 20:56:16 <09gammafunk> right, technically you don't have to make it that way, you could simply translate one level of the potion mut to 3 20:56:26 <09gammafunk> right, I see 20:56:36 <09gammafunk> is the no potions mut also in general circulation? 20:56:41 <09hellmonk> technically not wrong but seems kind of gross 20:56:43 <09hellmonk> I don't believe so 20:57:03 <09gammafunk> maybe it's not quite compelling enough 20:57:54 <09gammafunk> feels that the scroll mut's impact leans a lot on blink scrolls existing in terms of the biggest amount of impact, although I guess heal wounds is a decent analogy for blink scroll 20:58:04 <09hellmonk> yeah drink currently is weight 0, not available except through ru 20:58:23 <09gammafunk> could move it into the bad mut pool with 3 levels too, and yeah make them symmetric. A bit weird to make it 3 levels and then not have it in circulation 20:58:36 <09hellmonk> agreed 21:00:10 <09hellmonk> there's a problem in the actual math of the new formula too but I think that can be resolved 21:01:03 <09hellmonk> well maybe not a problem so much as weird behavior 21:01:31 <09gammafunk> I guess I would lean towards required arg, translation the potion mut caller to a value of 3 if not putting the potion mut in circular, although default arg is probably fine too (we would frown on this very much in python!). I like the idea of the mut having levels, seems pretty appropriate for how severe the mutation is, and I also kind of like the idea of bringing the potion mut in circulation in a similar way, but don't feel 21:01:31 strongly about the latter 21:01:52 <09hellmonk> ok, cool 21:02:03 <09gammafunk> I guess you could make arguments about this diluting the novelty of ru in some way, but that seems pretty far-fetched, ru still has some pretty unique bad muts 21:02:12 <09hellmonk> I'll write up some feedback for sentei since this is his pet project 21:02:34 <09hellmonk> also because level 3 of these muts functionally won't exist without ru anyway, since level 3 muts functionally don't exist 21:03:49 <09gammafunk> cool that quote will be perfect for my upcoming rant video about how dcss devs don't understand the game because they don't get the problem of game ending mutations 21:04:31 <09gammafunk> for a while they sort of existed with no-xp abyss and wretched stars, arguablly 21:04:43 <09hellmonk> yeah, that's fair 21:04:55 <09hellmonk> level 3 tempmuts were easier to get because of how corrupting pulse works 21:05:19 <09hellmonk> (used to work?) 21:06:14 <09gammafunk> man, occurs to me how we really need to put mut set into logfile/milestone fields 21:06:20 <09gammafunk> would be cool to query for stuff like that 21:06:35 <09gammafunk> although maybe status covers that for these particular muts 21:06:47 <09gammafunk> but still, that's only the moment of actual death, not whether you had the mut 21:06:56 <09hellmonk> "occasionally / sometimes / often" is a good call btw, matches teleportitis adverbs 21:07:10 <09gammafunk> yeah I read that and my thought was immediately 21:07:29