00:11:19 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering is concentrated venom supposed to eventually wear off? 00:24:48 <08wormsofcan> ebering had plans for evocable subsets when he was tweaking them 01:34:53 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78 (34) 01:56:40 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78 02:21:31 did you do something with beem again on CAO? i noticed it lagged pretty hard there for a minute and now beem isn't in game 02:31:15 <09gammafunk> yeah, more testing, sorry 02:51:22 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78 (34) 02:54:30 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78 03:32:43 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 04:09:52 03ebering02 07* 0.29-a0-552-gcc0464ae43: text: list kiku gift spells in the description 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc0464ae430c 04:44:24 <|amethyst> 1) Given that it's only L1, would it make sense to have Necrotize's skeleton duration depend on power (and increase the power cap for that purpose, but not damage)? 2) Wouldn't it be "Necrotise" in AusE? 04:47:12 <|amethyst> s/Given/Keeping in mind/ 05:45:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.29-a0-553-g81b289dbe5: Simplify slightly 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/81b289dbe5d7 06:02:25 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-553-g81b289dbe5 (34) 06:21:09 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 07:38:54 Webtiles server stopped. 07:38:55 Leszczynek (L23 HEWn) (Depths:4) 07:39:10 Webtiles server stopped. 07:39:16 Webtiles server started. 07:39:53 <03TZer0> Hmmm, webtiles keep hanging on me, I'm going to have to check what's up with that 07:40:00 <03TZer0> As in, the entire server just.. dies 07:42:03 CUE? 08:23:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-553-g81b289d (34) 11:48:10 <10PleasingFungus> |amethyst: spelling change sounds plausible 11:48:19 <10PleasingFungus> unsure about duration 11:48:36 <10PleasingFungus> want the skels to feel meaningful even on d1 11:48:45 <10PleasingFungus> which they didn't w lower dur 11:48:58 <10PleasingFungus> and don't want it to be better later 16:04:54 imho the lightning rod is not powerful enough, I often drop it to carry a spare ring or other wand. Suggestion: make it have a chance of leaving storm clouds on the tiles it zaps. This would balance out the focus-fire vs spread aspect a bit too. 16:14:41 Agreed based on personal "feel" from when I've used it. I've been consistently surprised, even when I've trained Evo, that a two-shot on the same tile will do a considerably low amount of damage compared to many other options 16:16:24 The 3rd and 4th shots do alright, but the first two are almost just idle turns except against weakling enemies 16:16:45 Exception: works great vs Silent Spectres because of such low HP and no rElec =p 16:16:49 Forgot to hit enter: But maybe I'm misunderstanding its use-case 16:18:15 I think the main reason I feel like it should do "more" damage is because 1) it requires /two/ turns to use it fully, and 2) it uses half of its charges which take a fair bit of time (around a full dungeon l level, I think?) to recharge 16:24:46 Recharging rate depends on Evoc skill, right? 16:26:39 <05kate> all the evocables are extremely strong and lightning rod definitely isn't any exception, it does a ton of damage and can kill liches and things 16:27:40 <05kate> you do have to actually channel it for the full duration but that's sort of the whole point, at least that way it actually has a bit of a downside in return for the huge payoff 16:32:06 <10PleasingFungus> kate, did you see my 'item type alternates' suggestion from yesterday? https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/982820702518382612 16:32:26 <10PleasingFungus> vaguely thinking about taking that as my next project, if people don't think of any huge downsides or problems 16:35:07 <05kate> oh yeah, i think that was an old idea for evokers too, i definitely think wands are at about the right number of how many should exist at once, and evokers there could probably afford to be 1 fewer (but also that 1 fewer should just be removing xom chesspieces) 16:36:43 <05kate> so having only a fixed subset generate per seed sounds like a reasonable way for there to be more types that exist overall, i'd just agree with gammafunk that i wouldn't want it to just be eg different elemental flavours of the same base thing 16:37:06 <10PleasingFungus> gotcha 16:37:25 <10PleasingFungus> so you wouldn't approve of the proposal there to make para/charm/mindblast into alternates? 16:39:48 Xom's Chesspiece is just the wand of random effects with recharging 16:39:55 <05kate> oh that could be reasonable - i wouldn't be opposed to there being fewer wand types per game either yeah (just that the current number seems like an okay maximum compared to how it's been in the past), just missed that bit of the proposal 16:42:24 <05kate> i guess with evokers it's a bit easier in that it'd be fine for there to be eg 6 types of evokers that exist and a completely random 4 of them generate per game - i like that a bit better than having multiple alternate sets for a single item type, but you'd probably need to do that for wands since they vary much more heavily 16:45:46 Not having wands of flaming in a given game would be awful, I use those all the time =p 16:45:51 <05kate> although i guess the current set of wands is basically flaming, digging and then "assorted strong-to-very-strong stuff" so it'd be fine for all those to be randomly replaceable (and then always generate flaming and digging?) 16:46:47 There should be a wand of inner flame 16:46:59 Alt-fire mode for wands? ^_^ 16:55:22 <10PleasingFungus> ha 16:56:07 <10PleasingFungus> kate: yeah, sounds good. i like the idea of having "here's a wand that checks Will", "here's a wand that does some damage and a status effect", "here's a wand that does damage in an interesting pattern" 16:56:22 <10PleasingFungus> but one could probably mess around more than that 16:56:54 <10PleasingFungus> i specifically didn't include /poly in the set because these proposed changes would affect artificer, and i think ar with /poly is a little depressing - it just doesn't do much in early D? 16:56:59 <10PleasingFungus> maybe it'd be fine, idk 16:57:27 <10PleasingFungus> it'd be nice if we could swap out potions/scrolls too, but those feel much harder to swap out 16:58:01 <10PleasingFungus> ?torment you could replace, probably, but ?fog...? !healwounds..? 17:01:18 <10PleasingFungus> will mess w wands and maybe ele evokers for now. 17:03:36 Each category could have a set of "standard" items that are always present and a set of "esoteric" ones that are randomly selected as a subset. 17:04:20 So for potions the standards would be curing, heal wounds, might/brill/mut maybe, but lignification, attraction could be esoteric 17:04:39 But the rarity of the esoteric ones kinda already takes care of that for the early game. 17:37:52 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus one thought I had about moving to a swap model was to make that only for random loot generation, and permit vaults to continue to specify things 17:37:58 <12ebering> so that the evoker trove becomes much more exciting 17:38:06 <12ebering> as do specialty shops, etc. 17:38:58 <10PleasingFungus> mm 17:39:36 <10PleasingFungus> in some ways that's easier. i'm vaguely worried about clutter, but probably one or two vaults won't be too bad 17:39:39 <10PleasingFungus> i wonder about the ui 17:40:09 <12ebering> "its fine as is" 17:40:23 <10PleasingFungus> i have a clear vision for how the UI would look with vault spawns banned - you'd have "unknown hex wand" or "unknown elemental wand" (etc) in the \- ui, replaced with whatever you discover 17:40:26 <12ebering> I guess there's \ 17:40:28 <12ebering> erm 17:40:29 <10PleasingFungus> yes 17:40:32 <12ebering> the double backslash 17:40:34 <10PleasingFungus> lol 17:40:36 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe it doesn't matter that much? 17:41:07 <10PleasingFungus> i worry it'd confuse players. 'why are no para wands spawning in this game?' but probably that'll happen regardless 17:41:32 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe better ui would help? 17:42:10 <10PleasingFungus> could auto-add it to the item description and note it in ?/i (but people barely read item descriptions and definitely don't read ?/i) 18:03:02 <05kate> i think making it a hard rule per game is probably better since part of the benefit of the model is avoiding inventory bloat when adding new item types imo 18:05:26 <05kate> probably a bit of a pain in terms of having to edit lots of vaults up-front, but still seems like a better approach to me 18:08:25 <|amethyst> probably also indicate it on \, but I'm not sure which side (\ or \\) 18:08:52 <|amethyst> and whether that would be "indicate by not listing it" or "indicate by listing it in red" 18:08:56 <10PleasingFungus> it's not too many wands 18:09:04 <10PleasingFungus> er, too many vaults 18:09:15 <10PleasingFungus> the wand types i was looking at are in 12-18 vaults each 18:09:16 <10PleasingFungus> counting alphashops 18:09:38 <10PleasingFungus> |amethyst: wow, the discord relay is eating that 18:09:55 <10PleasingFungus> had to go to s-z logs to see that message 18:10:03 <|amethyst> probably also indicate it on , but I'm not sure which side ( or ) 18:10:06 <10PleasingFungus> ty 18:10:25 <|amethyst> hmm... that discord relay bug might be bad 18:10:42 <|amethyst> if something's eating backslashes, there's a good chance it can be made to do less savoury things 18:10:46 <10PleasingFungus> mm 18:10:51 <10PleasingFungus> could ping gamma 18:11:27 <|amethyst> what happens if you type a backslash? 18:11:30 <10PleasingFungus> right, my suggestion was that \- (aka \\) would show "unknown hex wand" until you'd found one of para/charm/mindblast, then it'd show wand of paralysis on \ 18:11:32 <|amethyst> oh 18:11:36 <|amethyst> that looks fine to me 18:11:41 <|amethyst> so I guess it's just unidirectional 18:11:43 <10PleasingFungus> yeah i'm using backticks for escapes 18:11:48 <10PleasingFungus> i think it's an issue in discord, not in the bot? maybe 18:11:54 <10PleasingFungus> \ here's a backslash without an escape 18:12:00 <10PleasingFungus> - here's one with a dash after 18:12:00 <|amethyst> that one also looks fine 18:12:07 <10PleasingFungus> \ double backslash 18:12:14 <|amethyst> and that's just one backslash 18:12:23 <10PleasingFungus> yep, and the backslash plus dash got eaten 18:12:31 <|amethyst> *is this italic?* and \*this\* surrounded by stars? 18:12:32 <10PleasingFungus> (to be clear, they also get eaten in discord) 18:12:36 <10PleasingFungus> yes and yes 18:12:40 <|amethyst> ah, I see 18:13:04 <|amethyst> so I guess it's not too bad as long as IRC people know markdown 18:13:33 <10PleasingFungus> ha 18:14:04 <10PleasingFungus> i guess we don't currently show known wands on \ 18:14:09 <10PleasingFungus> probably that's fine 18:14:30 does the bot convert this, by any chance? 18:14:47 <|amethyst> "this"? I didn't see anything 18:15:04 it should be italic, in IRC-style markup 18:15:17 <|amethyst> oh, huh, didn't show up for me, and I'm on IRC 18:15:19 shows up properly in my client 18:15:22 <|amethyst> test 18:15:24 <|amethyst> test 18:15:30 sometimes called "mIRC attributes" 18:15:35 <|amethyst> (what's the ctrl-code for italic?) 18:15:46 the first one was " test", the second is "test" in bold 18:15:49 ctrl-i 18:16:03 <|amethyst> hm, the first one I sent was test 18:16:04 since tab does nick completion 18:16:21 <|amethyst> (I had to do ctrl-v ctrl-i since I'm in console) 18:16:23 <|amethyst> so maybe that's my client 18:16:49 hrm, wonder if cao needs a restart 18:16:50 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/983132318321496134/unknown.png 18:16:58 <10PleasingFungus> fwiw, i don't think the bot is doing anything very interesting 18:17:06 <10PleasingFungus> i do think this is discord's fault 18:17:22 <|amethyst> yeah, my thought at first was that the bot should escape things 18:17:34 <|amethyst> but maybe it makes sense to let IRC people do markdown, even if they can't see it 18:18:08 <|amethyst> That second "test", the one in bold, was test so the bot is at least translating in that direction 18:18:28 <|amethyst> since I don't think ASCII 002 bolds things in discord 18:18:59 <|amethyst> and my client just doesn't do italics 18:19:58 Webtiles server stopped. 18:20:13 Webtiles server started. 18:20:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, I've been getting intermittent freezes, of 5-10 seconds each, for the past couple of days 18:20:56 also curious as to whether it handles colors, but since playing with color in channel is usually a justified /kick I'll let that one go 18:21:11 <09gammafunk> yeah, I'm not sure how much my antics with beem are to blame here, it was spamming a lot of connections at one point due to bugs, but there seems to be weird lag along with asyncio timeout errors even when it's behaving properly 18:21:29 <09gammafunk> hopefully a restart puts things back in order, but if there are more problems I'll have to enlist advil's help 18:23:47 gonna leave nubeem running for a while and see if we get any weirdness before rolling it out more permanently to other servers 18:24:01 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.29-a0-553-g81b289dbe5 (34) 18:40:27 <08nicolae> speaking of unidirectional, what happens if you include one of those "right-to-left text direction" unicode symbols in a shop name, asking for a friend 18:44:36 <10PleasingFungus> seems easy enough to test, at least on some platform 18:46:03 <08nicolae> i would have done it already but i was busy this weekend 18:59:28 <|amethyst> in console, it will heavily depend on the user's terminal 19:00:05 <|amethyst> seems like tiles might work, except maybe not when it appears in the command window 19:00:10 <|amethyst> webtiles that 19:00:11 <|amethyst> is 19:00:30 <|amethyst> I'd be moderately surprised if it worked in SDL tiles 20:48:07 <|amethyst> So, I know this is silly, but... 20:48:32 <|amethyst> what about letting Merfolk wear bardings, but they're only active in water, and melded otherwise 20:48:39 <|amethyst> as a dual to their boot situation 21:02:46 <10PleasingFungus> very funny 21:02:56 <10PleasingFungus> but mf code is awful enough as is 21:03:56 <|amethyst> alternatively, only let them wear boots, but have the boots morph into something more fish-appropriate when they're in water 21:04:07 <|amethyst> which could probably lead to a simplification 21:04:29 <|amethyst> especially if combined with talons/hooves becoming "fin spikes" or whatever 21:07:30 <|amethyst> BTW, ISTR that there are no longer supposed to be any disadvantages to flying over water 21:08:12 <|amethyst> but my merfolk has less EV when flying over water with boots of flying than when swimming in the water without them 21:09:29 <10PleasingFungus> interesting 21:09:35 <|amethyst> and, worse, I can't decide to take the trade-off on the side of AC while I am currently in water without the boots, but can do so in the other direction 21:10:05 <10PleasingFungus> sounds buggy tbh 21:11:04 <|amethyst> I'll try to think more about solutions that are less silly than "boots turn into fin-guards" 21:31:29 <|amethyst> Well, my first attempt, making MUT_NIMBLE_SWIMMER non-form-based, wasn't enough 21:35:40 <|amethyst> hm, probably player::swimming is the right place? in_water is used for lots of negative things so that's probably wrong 21:36:46 <10PleasingFungus> on mobile so can’t check rn, sorry