01:34:51 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-468-ge57f7f99b4 (34)
01:56:11 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-468-ge57f7f99b4
02:44:42 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-468-ge57f7f99b4 (34)
02:54:09 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-468-ge57f7f99b4
03:35:43 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4699-g54b3c284c3
06:21:47 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4699-g54b3c284c3
08:18:56 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-468-ge57f7f9 (34)
08:19:57 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.29-a0-469-gd254ca66d9: Fix some commas in unrand inscriptions 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d254ca66d9bf
08:32:18 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-469-gd254ca66d9 (34)
10:54:37 <Discord|> <13S​astreii> unearth wretches done, but i've also remade the other kiku's powers to match the palette of the new one
10:54:37 <Discord|> <13S​astreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/977585209241374740/Schermata_2022-05-21_alle_16.48.02.png
10:54:38 <Discord|> <13S​astreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/977585209501450280/God_od_Death_metal.zip
10:58:46 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> sick
10:58:49 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> great filename 🙂
10:58:53 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> love the necronomicon
11:00:00 <Discord|> <13S​astreii> now unearth wretches replaces receive corpses right? or i've missed that?
11:00:34 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> yep
11:37:23 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> agreed
11:37:32 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> that is metal as hell
11:38:53 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> i had an unrand idea, i figure i should get feedback before i start thinking too much about it. a whip that does constriction on multiple enemies like an octopode.
11:40:46 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> the original idea was just weapon that does constriction but you'd probably need it to work on multiple at once for it to be usable
11:45:21 <geekosaur> UNRAND_CAT_O_NINE_TAILS
11:54:39 <Naruni> I didn't think this was possible...
11:54:43 <Naruni> You climb downwards. Welcome to the Lair of Beasts!
11:54:45 <Naruni> A sourceless malevolence fills the Lair of Beasts...
11:54:46 <Naruni> You fall into a shaft and drop 1 floor!
11:55:10 <geekosaur> yep
11:55:33 <Naruni> not whining, just thought that wouldn't have been allowed in the level generator
11:55:48 <Pinkbeast> The level generator doesn't place shafts
11:56:09 <Naruni> ...the shaft placer then
11:56:38 <geekosaur> shafts are no longer "placed", there is a percentage chance that on seeing a new square you'll be shafted
11:56:51 <Pinkbeast> Nothing places shafts (but AFAIK since spooky explore traps you've always been able to hit on on entering a floor and it's pretty likely since you see a lot of new squares then)
11:56:54 <geekosaur> hence the "sourceless malevolence": stuff
11:57:31 <Naruni> so the idea is that shaft placing on stairs is acceptable? if it needs to be changed i can write it out
11:58:00 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> the newish thing is exploration traps being allowed to trigger shafts while the player is on stairs
11:58:05 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> yes, it’s intended
11:58:20 <Naruni> roger that, thanks
11:58:20 <Pinkbeast> aha AFAIK wrong then
11:58:29 <Naruni> kinda janky but oh well
12:00:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> why janky?
12:06:04 <Naruni> it seems that players already hate shafts, that could easily turn out to be a 3-floor shaft when entering a new branch. i can see an inexperienced player rage quitting over something RNG hoses them on
12:08:11 <Naruni> i'd probably be bit more annoyed if that dropped me into elf:3 (or even elf:2) the second i step down the stairs, i bet the odds are high that's a death sentence no matter how well it's played out
12:08:51 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i'm very very skeptical that such shafts are as lethal as you suggest
12:09:10 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> having personally never died from such a shaft, nor having anyone else report dying or even close to dying from that
12:09:20 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> but regardless, how is that different from being shafted the turn after you step off the stairs?
12:11:58 <Naruni> the one difference is the player gets an opportunity to see what they've walked into before taking that step off the stairs. one of my strategies in playing is when the levels are getting increasingly dangerous for my character is to look around. if i don't like what i see i use one of the other stairs down. branch entries are already a one-way ticket
12:12:27 <perryprog> I do agree it is a little weird that explore shafts can trigger on down stairs, just because that seems physically weird. Just a bit, though.
12:12:43 <Naruni> if player walks into lair and sees a hydra their not ready to take on, they can leave and figure something else out
12:12:54 <Naruni> thhey're*
12:13:14 <perryprog> I would definitely prefer it just being the step /next to/ the stair you just took, rather than the step of going down the stair, but it doesn't really bother me.
12:13:53 <Naruni> yeah perryprog i'm not complaining, just was wondering if that is by design or if it was an oversight
12:14:39 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i still don’t understand, sorry
12:15:12 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> it seems like every objection you’re raising here applies to all shafts
12:15:49 <Discord|> <05k​ate> it would seem weird to me if taking stairs couldn't trigger exploration traps, since exploration traps trigger on exploring and seeing new tiles
12:16:13 <Discord|> <05k​ate> doesn't seem any different than opening a door, or even just stepping around a corner
12:16:53 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> if you see a hydra when entering lair & then get immediately shafted, that’s fantastic!
12:17:11 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> now you can get lair xp without having to deal with that hydra (yet) 🙂
12:17:20 <Naruni> PF i realize you don't understand, you asked why janky i gave my input. if it's not an oversight then NP
12:17:23 <perryprog> I think the reason it seems mildly janky to me is because that tile already has a "feature" on it. (Even though traps aren't "placed" anymore).
12:18:09 <Naruni> kate: opening a door isn't the action of relocating a player to another level
12:18:12 <perryprog> Just because I know that it's explore-based doesn't mean it doesn't "feel" like the trap was physically where I just stepped when I trigger a shaft
12:19:12 <Naruni> if a sense of reality is intended, i think it's a great idea that opening a door can cause a shaft to trigger
12:19:46 <Naruni> the old pull away rug scooby doo trick
12:21:50 <geekosaur> I always found the idea of hidden shafts to be a bit odd, tbh; it makes more sense to me now as just something that happens because you're exploring a dungeon of evil
12:22:04 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i don't think i follow at all either how that is in any way distinct from shafts on taking stairs (but re: perryprog's comment, i could certainly see something like flavouring shafts as magical portals that open up on top of you or something, instead of you falling through the floor at your location)
12:22:50 <geekosaur> not thathidden shafts aren't a thing but I'd expect more stuff to go along with it, like more free rocks
12:23:02 <Discord|> <05k​ate> would address the slight weirdness/awkward flavour of them affecting you while flying, but also i don't think it matters either way
12:35:17 <perryprog> agreed on it not really mattering
12:35:24 <perryprog> the dungeon of evil does what it wants, y'know?
12:37:48 <Naruni> perryprog: agreed, the FAQ does clearly say that there are inevitable deaths.
12:42:20 <Naruni> another thing i want to ask about. has there been a major change recently to monster AI or pathing? i'm noticing a bit more that some monsters have a very difficult time tracking and following the player in situations i'd normally expect them to approach or follow
12:43:27 <Naruni> specifically in a recent game there was a hall of yaks around a corner which refused to come out of the hall only 3 squares away. in this game i'm currently playing, a torpor snail just ran away from me with a clear path to approach
12:44:58 <perryprog> did you have higher stealth than what you're used to?
12:49:07 <Naruni> yes, these occurances were with a naga and with a higher stealth than i normally play... does that make a difference when the monster knows where the character is? as in, no '?' on their icon
12:50:01 <geekosaur> even a couple of pips of stealth is really powerful
12:50:04 <Naruni> i thought stealth only applies when they are sleeping or have the '?'
12:50:19 <Naruni> or out of LOS
13:24:03 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you are correct
13:24:15 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> afaik there have been no recent relevant changes
13:24:41 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> if you see this happen again, screenshots would help
13:40:36 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> stealth will let them lose you easier (even in sight I believe) but that should be noticeable
17:33:54 <Discord|> <12e​bering> gonna add a custom message to shaft-on-stairs
17:34:07 <Discord|> <12e​bering> "You fall thorough a false stair 3 floors."
17:34:51 <Discord|> <12e​bering> your move "it doesnt make sense" camp (with sucked through for flying)
17:39:31 <Discord|> <05k​ate> shaft on stairs is clearly the staircase turning cartoon-style into a slide with a trapdoor at the bottom
17:39:35 <Discord|> <05k​ate> very appropriate for an evil villain's lair
17:40:03 <perryprog> I was going to mention that as a possibility for the physical interpretation but then totally forgot to
18:08:16 <Discord|> <03w​heals> does seem like that if exploration traps can shaft players on stairs, formicids should be able to self shaft there too
18:23:25 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.29-a0-469-gd254ca66d9 (34)
21:48:38 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wheals: agreed
21:48:45 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> kate: lmao
22:19:02 <Naruni> pull the lever, kronk