00:07:49 04Build failed for 08dying_flame @ 34d4efac 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1149392385 00:10:21 <09gammafunk> k, I'm going to try to get that tournament writeup done tonight anyhow, but hopefully I can have something intelligent to say tomorrow 00:10:32 <09gammafunk> and if not...there is always....memes.... 00:12:06 <10PleasingFungus> i'm perfectly happy with memes 00:12:40 <10PleasingFungus> i feel kind of bad that i haven't been giving feedback on ebering's hells 00:12:48 <10PleasingFungus> maybe i should do that at some point 00:13:39 <10PleasingFungus> too many people making things, too few people giving feedback 00:13:49 <10PleasingFungus> kind of funny... you'd expect the opposite problem 00:18:32 <09gammafunk> I think he's been getting some help from hellmonk at least, I gave him a little bit, but definitely not much 00:18:43 <09gammafunk> ebering is a one man show, much like his zot vaults 00:19:32 <09gammafunk> I guess nothing like those since they feature many draconian "men" but it's a reference 00:25:46 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/878132678887637022/Peek_2021-08-19_23-25.mp4 00:25:56 <09gammafunk> qw "owning" zot:5 pretty hard right now 00:26:20 <09gammafunk> it seemed to crash the game eventually 00:28:40 <09gammafunk> it managed to ascend on a second attempt of that z:5 but it behaved rather oddly for a while, seemingly trying to "clear" the level after it picked up the orb for a while until it finally decided to do the ascension 00:35:53 <09gammafunk> @advil although I can't really get qw to successfully ascend with a normal start, qw was able to ascend a wizmode char given amazing starting equipment and the ability to spam death abuse on zot:5. I think its behaviour on zot:5 might be a bit weird now, since it didn't seem to act the right way after picking up the orb for some time until it suddenly started actually ascending. Commits push to the 00:35:54 qw repo with fixes for all the little issues that popped up, so now we at least have it available again for some testing. 00:36:21 <09gammafunk> Furthest it got with a legit char was a DDFi^M that got to Zot:2 and a GrBe that god to like Depths:2 00:36:44 <09gammafunk> seems like 0.27 has nerfed qw fairly well 00:36:55 <09gammafunk> although no idea how it was doing in 0.26 and 0.25 either 00:37:49 <09gammafunk> bet it wouldn't be too hard to make qw use oka's duel, but I doubt it would be as good with oka as it is with trog 01:34:35 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-206-gc2c9e32840 (34) 01:55:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-206-gc2c9e32840 02:16:48 <09gammafunk> @advil never mind re: qw not being able to beat trunk. Just fired up some games of it since dilly apparently hadn't heard of nor seen it, and it managed to win a DDFi^M in a few attempts: https://crawl.dcss.io/crawl/morgue/qwqw/morgue-qwqw-20210820-055401.txt 02:24:00 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-206-gc2c9e32840 (34) 02:53:48 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-206-gc2c9e32840 03:01:09 <12ebering> @nicolae hmm I'll look at that one coc layout and see if I can get it to be a bit less aggressively minified 03:02:08 <12ebering> @nicolae if you're going to add an ORIENT: line though my current recommendation is that it be ORIENT: center and not float... floats tend to drift out of the level or make weird connectivity tunnels appear 04:17:42 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 04:52:10 03kippig02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-207-gea8a313d67: vaults: edit tgw_trog vault to avoid rat spawns late 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea8a313d6756 05:01:45 03Aliscans02 {GitHub} 07* 0.28-a0-208-g14faa605fd: Check for monsters, objects & features as soon as you move. (#2041) 10(6 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14faa605fdf6 05:15:01 03hyperactiveChipmunk02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-209-g080cfb6e2c: "Okay, then" on saying 'n' to warn_hatches prompts 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 15+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/080cfb6e2c3e 05:15:01 03hyperactiveChipmunk02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-210-gb0f16cbe65: indent fix 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b0f16cbe6515 05:20:37 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-211-g50b444eb91: Update branches.txt 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 222+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50b444eb91ba 05:20:37 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-212-ga7b0c1cb7f: doc: update CREDITS 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a7b0c1cb7f03 05:36:22 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-213-gb7ea06bb7e: Revert "Don't consider rings of rPois useless for bloodless vampires" 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7ea06bb7e32 05:36:22 03robertxgray02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-214-gcbf37d0371: Vampires are not (pure) lifeless undead 10(12 days ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cbf37d03718a 05:53:24 <12ebering> since I didn't see any objections to the balance tweaks I was planning on including in 0.27.1 I've cherry picked them 05:54:16 <12ebering> I recall in the hellfire bug we were able to convince hong to update stable (though the milestones had the wrong tag); the remaining server admins are easier to reach or have their stables set to pull updates 05:54:45 <12ebering> I'm hoping to get it together to run a csdc this version 05:56:15 <12ebering> I think I've got a pretty complete set of cherry picks as well, gonna push and let CI run then do deb changelog and tag 05:56:33 03advil02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-67-g8ed9f98d99: fix: correctly set target when firing untargeted abilities 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ed9f98d9977 05:56:33 03advil02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-68-g6038ca15fb: fix: don't crash on fedhas wave wrath 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 9+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6038ca15fb17 05:56:33 03advil02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-69-gc7b7ba9e45: fix: more player shadow vs wrath avatar cleanups 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 9+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c7b7ba9e458d 05:56:33 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-70-gf5df70ebe7: Warn about unsilencable spells 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 15+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f5df70ebe758 05:56:33 03kate-02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-71-g09d8122d34: Fix some invalid vault syntax 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/09d8122d3475 05:56:33 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-72-gf50ed218a6: Don't recalculate MP when Evo is trained 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f50ed218a670 05:56:33 03kippig02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-73-g6106b722c7: vaults: edit tgw_trog vault to avoid rat spawns late 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6106b722c736 05:56:33 03Aliscans02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-74-gea78352198: Check for monsters, objects & features as soon as you move. (#2041) 10(55 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea7835219895 05:56:33 03hyperactiveChipmunk02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-75-gadcbd951fb: "Okay, then" on saying 'n' to warn_hatches prompts 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 15+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/adcbd951fbbd 05:56:33 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.0-76-ge25c601b62: Update branches.txt 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 222+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e25c601b629c 05:56:33 ... and 7 more commits 05:56:35 New branch created: pull/2078 (9 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-181-g7835de8f16: Add new artefact: dreamshard necklace 10(3 days ago, 18 files, 165+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7835de8f163e 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-182-gc120aa7d69: Run checkwhite util 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c120aa7d6954 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-183-g612ecc9b8b: Add first dream and transformation, make it work 10(2 days ago, 22 files, 74+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/612ecc9b8bbb 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-184-g849d138fe9: Further work on vaults and transformation (more to do) 10(2 days ago, 8 files, 56+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/849d138fe9d7 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-185-g264d89f1bc: additional dreams, forms and smaller tweaks 10(18 hours ago, 14 files, 229+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/264d89f1bc65 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-186-g9281185e26: Completed first set of dreams and transforms 10(15 hours ago, 8 files, 126+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9281185e2644 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-187-gc708bf1e9c: Local testing changes: item and map tweaks 10(62 minutes ago, 6 files, 49+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c708bf1e9c9b 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-188-g9da28cc0d3: Final description tweaks 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9da28cc0d35c 05:56:35 03amcnicky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2078 * 0.28-a0-189-g626df7abac: EoF Whitespace fixes 10(54 minutes ago, 5 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/626df7abac82 05:58:14 <12ebering> dang someone call minmay 06:02:23 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-214-gcbf37d0371 (34) 06:23:02 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4274-ga1336d5a09 06:44:35 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-215-g8e425c6592: doc: changelog for 0.27.1 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8e425c659206 06:46:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-215-g8e425c6592 (34) 06:48:25 03ebering02 07[stone_soup-0.27] * 0.27.1: doc: changelog for 0.27.1 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b45762c1755 06:50:53 <12ebering> %git 0.27.1 06:50:53 <04Cerebot> ebering * 0.27.1: doc: changelog for 0.27.1 (10 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 0-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b45762c1755 06:51:03 <12ebering> %git stone_soup-0.27 06:51:04 <04Cerebot> ebering * 0.27.1: doc: changelog for 0.27.1 (10 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 0-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b45762c1755 07:12:02 @ebering Thank you for looking into the vampires problem, issue #2017 can also be closed 07:13:05 <12ebering> robertxgray: if you include "Closes #2017" or similar in the body of the commit message github will do it automatically 07:13:16 <12ebering> (I thought you had, since it was in your github web ui for the pull request :d) 07:14:25 oh thanks, I'm being too impatient then 07:14:57 <12ebering> no no, in this case it wasn't in the commit message 07:15:03 <12ebering> just the github web ui for the pull request 07:15:08 <12ebering> (infinite sorrow that these are distinct) 07:18:07 my mistake then, I'll try to remember for the next commits 07:19:20 <12ebering> a reminder here is also fine 🙂 08:56:06 You see here: Ebering's Infinite Sorrow 09:26:21 <12ebering> ok, did the 0.27.1 release builds on github, but I don't have a set-up to build the debs nor access to upload them to cdo 09:30:34 <12ebering> ??plan 09:30:35 <04Cerebot> plan[1/2]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.28-Development-and-Release-Plan 09:30:44 <12ebering> expanded the plan to a publicly consumable version 09:34:33 I'm glad to see the stuff about save compat 09:35:22 <12ebering> Of particular interest is the save compat section (though that's more a reminder for 5 months down the line) 09:35:28 <12ebering> and this section: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.28-Development-and-Release-Plan#game-length--xp-curve- 09:37:21 <12ebering> we'll see if we actually get to it, it's possible the crawl time of everyone with the will will evaporate at an inopportune moment 09:38:03 The rolling minor tags are the good bit for us, we used quite a lot of them up in 0.21 before we realised they could run out :-( 09:39:50 <12ebering> really should make a "fork guide" in docs/develp that says "step one bump tag major, trust us you'll thank us later" 09:40:55 I wish I'd known about props earlier, too 09:41:32 (also anything in the C line later than NetHack's pre-ANSI C :-) 09:50:06 <09hellmonk> Step 2 is dont actually set it up as a fork on github because if you do you cant search on github, very annoying 09:51:37 New branch created: pull/2079 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2079 09:51:37 03RojjaCebolla02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2079 * 0.28-a0-216-g311ae47d88: add some tips for prospective fork developers 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/311ae47d88f5 09:56:40 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-216-g0da4227f7a: Re-add fruit names to the string generators 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 69+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0da4227f7a8f 09:56:40 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-217-gdc40aaacc9: Add a few more actions for Okawaru Duel spectators 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 13+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dc40aaacc9ae 09:56:40 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-218-g8eabd40a87: Add a couple adjective strings 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 53+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8eabd40a876e 09:56:40 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-219-gc0b1434407: Add pennants for duel spectators (text string) 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0b143440771 09:56:42 03RojjaCebolla02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2079 * 0.28-a0-217-g2c84979f33: fixup! 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c84979f338f 09:57:21 03RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} 07* 0.28-a0-220-gad6161974e: Add a few more _anger_possessive_ strings 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ad6161974e0a 10:01:52 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-220-gad6161974e (34) 10:13:12 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-221-g2b4a79830d: feat: recommend brigand over hunter for Ko (dilly) 10(77 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2b4a79830de3 10:16:59 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-221-g2b4a79830d (34) 10:18:27 Is there an existing github / Mantis issue for make -j races that I'm failing to search up, please? 10:21:20 <12ebering> build racer 10:21:42 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering did you see my discussion with gammafunk about save compat a few weeks ago? there are still very big outstanding questions that i don't see referenced in the save compat section at all 10:21:46 <12ebering> (no issue currently canonical for make races, please make one) 10:21:53 <12ebering> oh, I did not 10:22:21 <10PleasingFungus> https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/872523982845407252 eg 10:22:35 <10PleasingFungus> (that's in the middle of the conversation but is one major point) 10:24:53 ebering: will do if I can make it happen in vanilla, although it's tiresomely intermittent 10:24:58 <10PleasingFungus> basically i’m still very confused by the argument being made for a major save compat break; i haven’t yet seen anything that it lets us accomplish, concretely 10:25:40 <10PleasingFungus> i understand the desire to delete a bunch of code 10:26:17 <10PleasingFungus> but i’m not convinced the code we’d delete has a significant maintenance cost, and i personally have gotten value from it 10:26:19 <08nicolae> the argument for a major save compatibility break is that players need to get their fucking shit together 10:26:24 <10PleasingFungus> by continuing long running games 10:26:52 <10PleasingFungus> it would break save compat for any game currently being played :p 10:26:57 <10PleasingFungus> not just very old ones! 10:27:18 <08nicolae> see above re: players getting their shit together and the necessity thereunto 10:27:27 <10PleasingFungus> i’m fine with setting up some rolling system for save compat 10:27:55 <10PleasingFungus> but no one has yet explained to me how a major save compat break would help with that 10:28:02 <10PleasingFungus> so, i am confusion. 10:28:21 <12ebering> aha 10:28:23 <12ebering> I think I can help 10:28:45 <12ebering> because of how the old compatibility code is tagged, the first "step" of a rolling system would effectively be a tag major increase 10:29:02 <10PleasingFungus> (i also think any kind of save compat break is an incredibly low priority vs literally anything else we could do, in terms of impact on players, but in an open source project everyone can choose their own goals :p) 10:29:29 <10PleasingFungus> right, but wrong 10:29:47 <10PleasingFungus> a save compat break breaks ongoing games 10:30:00 <10PleasingFungus> this would only break games more than XX old 10:30:03 <10PleasingFungus> right? 10:30:15 <12ebering> no! major 34 can load (irreversably) games as old as 33.11 with some success 10:30:54 <12ebering> so major 35 would be set up to be happy with loading save version 34.endtimes 10:31:19 <12ebering> alternately, dgl supports not upgrading games 10:31:36 <12ebering> so as long as server admins were ok with hosting them, 34.endtimes binaries could be kept indefinitely, just like stable 10:32:48 <10PleasingFungus> ah, so let me try to clarify my new understanding of the plan 10:33:56 <10PleasingFungus> (1) we start tagging changes with dates to prepare a rolling system, figure out how to handle upgrading every level in a save, etc 10:34:09 <10PleasingFungus> (2) we wait XX months 10:34:46 <10PleasingFungus> (3) we figure out how dgl will work w rolling upgrades 10:35:20 <10PleasingFungus> (4) we upgrade the major version, keeping compat for those recent date-tagged changes 10:35:32 <10PleasingFungus> is that accurate? 10:36:10 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-222-g0f8ce75afc: Fix spelling and some incorrect speech keys 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f8ce75afc37 10:36:10 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-223-g1bb7f9241b: Tweak duel speech weighting 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1bb7f9241b1f 10:36:21 <12ebering> approximately; I'm proposing that we don't worry with date-tagging until after the tag major upgrade, but it could also be done the other way around yes 10:37:30 <10PleasingFungus> gotcha! 10:38:08 <10PleasingFungus> my big concern here, other than prioritization, is that we’ll end up worsening the user experience 10:38:28 <12ebering> howso? 10:38:41 <10PleasingFungus> well, for example, with the issue of upgrading rolling saves 10:38:50 <10PleasingFungus> since each floor is saved separately, we have a couple of choices 10:39:32 <10PleasingFungus> (1) whenever we upgrade a save, we load every single floor and upgrade each. this seems quite slow and is probably a non-starter. 10:40:21 <10PleasingFungus> (2) we never upgrade the "top-level version" of a save; every save must be finished within XX months of when it's started or be stuck in an obsolete trunk version and/or become unplayable. 10:40:34 <10PleasingFungus> assume you were thinking something closer to the latter 10:40:40 <12ebering> (1) is what I was going to start with; this would be a once a year cpu expendature over a couple hundred save files at most 10:41:40 <10PleasingFungus> ah, there are a lot of assumptions there I wasn't expecting 10:42:25 <12ebering> yea, the "rolling model" I have in mind is on release or every other release we clean up the tag minor floor 10:42:31 <10PleasingFungus> (a) we'd roll, not more-or-less continuously after XX time from changes, but 1/year (or whatever) XX time from changes 10:42:56 <10PleasingFungus> (b) we'd clean things up at the time of the roll as a server-side script, rather than as part of the launch logic 10:43:10 <10PleasingFungus> (latter presumably means that cwz players are out of luck, probably along with some others) 10:44:11 <12ebering> yeah. worth noting that (augh I forget which) one of cko or cpo already force transfers saves to current trunk (though currently this doesn't do a "deep transfer") 10:44:26 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, seems irrelevant 10:44:40 <10PleasingFungus> you'd have to upgrade every save started before XX date, regardless of its last upgrade 10:45:31 <12ebering> yes, I'm pointing it out that the "deep transfer" can (possibly) be incorporated as an automated part of server operations that doesn't require manual intervention 10:46:17 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i got that! 10:46:28 <12ebering> re cwz: trunk updates there are currently a manual process already, so as long as we tell hong whats up they should be ok 10:46:34 <10PleasingFungus> i like that it doesn't directly interfere with players experience on load 10:46:47 <10PleasingFungus> worth noting the numbers are smaller than i expected 10:46:48 <10PleasingFungus> !lm * alive start<2020-08-20 x=cdist(gid) s=src 10:46:57 <04Cerebot> 1380 milestones for * (alive start<2020-08-20): 1121x cwz [8], 147x cao [18], 47x cxc [2], 33x cko [5], 16x lld [3], 14x cue [3], cpo [1], cdo [1] 10:46:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-223-g1bb7f9241b (34) 10:47:10 <10PleasingFungus> only about 40ish games started more than a year ago, say 10:47:19 <10PleasingFungus> !lm * alive start<2021-06-20 x=cdist(gid) s=src 10:47:23 <10PleasingFungus> oops wrong one 10:47:27 <10PleasingFungus> !lm * alive start<2021-02-20 x=cdist(gid) s=src 10:47:29 <04Cerebot> 52683 milestones for * (alive start<2021-06-20): 16725x cao [1922], 10458x cxc [532], 6798x cko [1324], 6195x cbr2 [1033], 5308x cwz [627], 5123x cue [931], 1284x cpo [354], 413x lld [58], 379x cdo [19] 10:47:38 <04Cerebot> 23349 milestones for * (alive start<2021-02-20): 8228x cxc [148], 5875x cao [756], 2584x cbr2 [285], 2563x cko [424], 1849x cwz [105], 1587x cue [275], 480x cpo [96], 132x lld [25], 51x cdo [10] 10:48:00 <10PleasingFungus> 6 months is higher, but not terrifyingly so 10:48:10 <10PleasingFungus> and even 2 months not that awful 10:48:31 <12ebering> yeah, also those queries are including non-trunk games 10:48:46 <12ebering> !lm * alive start<2021-02-20 trunk x=cdist(gid) s=src 10:48:54 <10PleasingFungus> oh, good catch 10:50:01 <12ebering> !kw trunk 10:50:03 <04Cerebot> Keyword: trunk => alpha !experimental 10:50:07 <12ebering> ah 10:50:10 <12ebering> !kw alpha 10:50:11 <04Cerebot> Built-in: alpha => alpha=true 10:50:17 <04Cerebot> 7742 milestones for * (alive start<2021-02-20 trunk): 3106x cao [338], 1698x cwz [73], 1300x cbr2 [132], 620x cue [119], 407x cxc [68], 394x cko [46], 145x cpo [38], 63x lld [11], 9x cdo [6] 10:50:27 <10PleasingFungus> halfsies! 10:55:33 <12ebering> not sure if this was clear so I'll clarify: in the rolling model I'm suggesting when we bump the tag minor we bump it to the tag minor that's XX months old, not the current tag minor 10:55:41 <12ebering> so that the deep transfer only needs to be done to the antique saves 10:56:09 <12ebering> also so that from one stable to the next we can maintain save compatibility 10:56:22 <12ebering> for our offline players 11:00:38 <10PleasingFungus> yes, i got that 11:00:55 <12ebering> 👍 11:01:35 <10PleasingFungus> but, again to clarify, even if a save was 'shallow upgraded' more recently than XX months ago, we'd still need to 'deep transfer' it 11:01:59 <10PleasingFungus> because we have no way of knowing whether there are levels within that save that were not upgraded 11:03:27 <12ebering> yes. it might turn out that's harder to detect from dgl/back end scripts than expected, but the save chunks do know when the character was created and its version history so it can't be that bad (he says, optimistically) 11:09:51 <10PleasingFungus> it really seems like a huge project 11:10:07 <10PleasingFungus> if it won't get in the way of players, i won't stand in your way 11:10:36 <12ebering> maybe I'm tricking myself into thinking its a smaller project 11:10:59 <12ebering> thankfully the status quo isn't so bad that if I run aground things will continue on 11:11:04 <10PleasingFungus> you know what would be a small, cozy, fun little project? 11:11:09 <12ebering> (smaller than huge, not small in an absolute sense) 11:11:14 <10PleasingFungus> that rhymes with 'flanged deform'? 11:11:20 <12ebering> lol 11:11:28 <10PleasingFungus> by 'small' i mean 'not small' 11:11:40 <12ebering> the save compat note is a reminder to look at it again near the end of the cycle! 11:11:52 <10PleasingFungus> very well 11:11:54 <12ebering> writing up ranged reform is on my todo 11:12:13 <10PleasingFungus> oh, two other things i forgot 11:12:18 <10PleasingFungus> (1) thank you for fleshing out the plan! 11:12:29 <12ebering> right after remidning nojaa to be more productive on pr feedback and playing a HuFA in a game with Mliogotl guaranteed to generate 11:12:36 <10PleasingFungus> ooh 11:13:03 <10PleasingFungus> (2) is there a particular reason why you reordered "Testing and feedback" back after "tasks for completion"? 11:13:27 <10PleasingFungus> it seems like there's a natural ordering, going from "most done / most likely to be in 0.28" to least 11:13:37 <10PleasingFungus> which is "stuff that's in-game", "stuff being worked on", and "stuff that might be worked on" 11:13:50 <12ebering> thats the way it is in the template and I'm a sucker for tradition 😉 11:13:54 <10PleasingFungus> what if... 11:13:57 <10PleasingFungus> i edited the template... 11:14:06 <12ebering> have at it! 11:17:11 <10PleasingFungus> thanks for chatting with me about all this today! 11:17:14 <10PleasingFungus> really appreciate your patience 11:18:02 <12ebering> happy to chat! it was clear from past chats that not everyone was on the same page but it wasn't clear exactly where the confusion was 11:18:11 <12ebering> part of what writing things up is to help with 11:19:39 03nicolae02 07* 0.28-a0-224-g76b539d98b: Rearrange existing quotes and add new ones 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 241+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76b539d98b9b 11:20:01 <06advil> I don't think it's a small project fwiw 11:20:18 <12ebering> agreed: [6:11 PM] ebering: (smaller than huge, not small in an absolute sense) 11:21:06 <06advil> also change the #define'd game name in step 1, it took me a long while to actually figure that one out 11:23:46 <06advil> looks promising! I'm not sure exactly when I'll be able to take a deep look, mb this weekend but maybe not until sometime next weekend. This does bring up a question I've which is, to what degree should things opened from that menu return to that menu? 11:24:25 <06advil> ugh, sorry for the irc side, those were responses to various things in the backlog 11:27:35 <10PleasingFungus> right. my intuitive feeling was that this should return to the esc menu, as should anything else there that isn't like "save" or "quit" or w/e 11:27:39 <10PleasingFungus> that's usually how menus work 11:27:43 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe i'm off-base 11:27:56 <10PleasingFungus> maybe also worth comparing with or unifying with the main menu ?/ 11:28:03 <10PleasingFungus> which currently is (a) secret and (b) asks you to enter a letter 11:30:05 <06advil> this is one of those things where crawl menus often don't work that way 11:30:26 <06advil> I did have something else return to the menu and then backtracked on it I think? 11:30:36 <06advil> but it probably should behave "normally" whatever that is 11:31:57 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-224-g76b539d98b (34) 11:32:17 <06advil> @gammafunk fyi I put cao scoring into a detached head state because I think there's a bug that I don't have time to track down in some recent stuff I committed, it's up and running though 11:32:33 <06advil> but probably best not to do any git commands in there for the moment 11:41:59 <10PleasingFungus> i can believe this; not sure what other relevant examples are, though 12:00:31 <12ebering> Let's see if we can recruit your Ignis commenter to write wrath dialog lines 🙂 12:01:05 <10PleasingFungus> haha 12:01:19 <10PleasingFungus> what if i'm hugely picky and want to write all of my own lines! 12:01:33 <10PleasingFungus> not sure if you saw I already wrote a few 12:01:52 I am sorry about stepping your toes, ebering. I read the vault guidelines, which usually disallows usage of custom monsters and since it seemed that the monsters were there only for other available monsters, I thought if it could be avoided by using vault debuffed monsters instead. the Transmuter theory crafting was for two reasons. Firstly I 12:01:53 nojaa: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:01:53 thought that transmutation in dreams was applied every turn. Secondly since the initial commit talked about the item as escape item, it may come as rude surprise to Transmuter that thinks it as an escape button is shocked by forced form change. However, I think the action I should have done was request him to fix the description as otherwise the 12:01:53 <12ebering> haven't read the patch yet 12:01:53 form chances are spoilery and come as weird shock. 12:02:13 !message 12:02:14 You probably meant !messages, or possibly !tell. 12:02:21 !messages 12:02:29 <12ebering> still getting rebased and set up to playtest 12:06:07 <10PleasingFungus> hm 12:06:34 <10PleasingFungus> i sort of wonder if this would make sense as a rare potion type 12:06:55 <12ebering> potion of dreams 12:06:58 <10PleasingFungus> yes, exactly 12:07:01 <12ebering> !! dram of dreams 12:07:02 <12ebering> (sorry) 12:07:04 <10PleasingFungus> lol 12:07:06 <10PleasingFungus> are you sorry? 12:07:15 <12ebering> you got me i am in fact not sorry 12:07:58 <10PleasingFungus> gotem. 12:12:17 with dreams (or astral travel) i'd expect my body to remain on the material plane and vulnerable 12:12:42 <10PleasingFungus> sure 12:13:26 <10PleasingFungus> one advantage of the amulet design is that there's a tradeoff; you're using something 'worse' in your amulet slot in exchange for a very powerful escape ability 12:13:35 <10PleasingFungus> i'll leave some notes on the PR 12:15:15 <12ebering> re dreams: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18504 12:15:37 <12ebering> (warning this thread started strange and took a regrettable direction) 12:16:54 <08nicolae> UNRAND CONSUMABLES 12:17:06 <10PleasingFungus> lol 12:18:56 <05kate> i think for this to actually work it should be an amulet of nothing or some extremely minimal effect (with fragile), as proposed in the PR it's just two good amulets at once plus the extra weird effect on top of those, not very much of a tradeoff 12:19:03 <09hellmonk> Mixture thread? 12:20:11 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i left a very similar note on the PR 12:20:29 <10PleasingFungus> macabre finger feels like a natural comparison point 12:20:56 <10PleasingFungus> i also sort of like the idea of making it a fragile ring and, rather than having the portal be an ability, have it trigger when you remove the ring 12:21:00 <10PleasingFungus> elegance! 12:23:43 <05kate> i had a half-implemented mostly joke idea of an unrand amulet of lifesaving a while back, that had no passive effect and was fragile, this seems similar to that i guess but much more complicated 12:24:17 <10PleasingFungus> wow, you say that like it's a bad thing 😛 12:24:24 <10PleasingFungus> i think the cool part of this design is the thematic dreams 12:24:54 <10PleasingFungus> the unfortunate part is that you've got these cool 5 dreams, of which you see exactly one per use (i think?), at most once per game, on an unrand 12:27:36 <05kate> you go through all of them in order, i think 12:28:26 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i misread 12:28:32 <10PleasingFungus> that's a lot of dreaming 12:29:04 <10PleasingFungus> oof form is a good crossover with monster crawl 12:31:54 the design feedback was about the fact that amulet doesn't tell about the mandatory transformation in the Dream and it was spoilery for that reason. 12:32:49 fragile ring is cool 12:34:15 <10PleasingFungus> i guess i agree this feels mega complex and probably wants some big time thought 12:34:23 <10PleasingFungus> i love the dream theme idea a lot tho 12:35:21 <10PleasingFungus> one vague thing i've been thinking about is the idea of retheming exploration traps as "random events" or "exploration events" (and maybe adding a few more, if we have good ideas) 12:35:31 <05kate> the theme is cool but the mechanics feel too much even for an unrand to me, i can imagine something much-simplified but keeping the theme could be feasible though 12:35:46 <10PleasingFungus> instead of "you're sucked into a shaft", "suddenly, the earth shakes and the ground gives way!" 12:35:49 <10PleasingFungus> or something like that 12:36:03 <10PleasingFungus> i wonder if a dream would be an interesting random challenge 12:36:21 However I edited my post, so that it is told that telling about the mandatory transformation in the Amulet description is good enough. 12:36:50 <10PleasingFungus> (the other idea i had was that depths-level shaft traps could send you to Hell) 12:38:03 <12ebering> nojaa: thank you for your edit! 12:41:14 version 0.27.1 is available on google play 12:50:26 <10PleasingFungus> wow, so fast! 12:59:30 7quit 13:25:37 Stable (0.27) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27.1-0-g0b45762 13:34:16 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-224-g76b539d (34) 13:41:04 <09gammafunk> ok, I don't even touch CAO scoring at all, although at some point I should familiarize myself on how to edit config and restart the process. Good that it's running again 15:23:42 Stable (0.27) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27.1-0-g0b45762c17 16:13:53 heya, are the threads on https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start with descriptions of suggestions things to improve up-to-date? 16:14:53 <12ebering> No, see our github wiki for that these days 16:14:53 <12ebering> ??plan 16:14:53 <04Cerebot> plan[1/2]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.28-Development-and-Release-Plan 16:22:08 mhm, so there was some thread about improving accessibility for blind players. if I were to work on that, would such a feature not be included into dcss? 16:24:04 <12ebering> those improvements are ones we are still interested in 16:24:30 <12ebering> the up-to-date version of that thread, based on what's been implemented and my recent conversations with members of the audiogames.net forums is here: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Accessible-Crawl 16:25:12 <12ebering> see also https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/User-Interface-Improvements 16:25:14 great, will look into that, thanks :-) 18:10:30 is it ok to ask questions about the code base? Like what does "action_cycle" in menu.cc do? 18:23:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-224-g76b539d98b (34) 20:10:33 <10PleasingFungus> sefie67: perfectly okay to ask! i personally don’t know that function, but @advil might? 20:12:05 i see thanks. It probably is not important anymore.. I thought it would be relevant in extending Ctrl-x with filters or categories, but I get the impression I am wrong 21:09:02 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering thank you so much for the in-depth ignis review! i'll respond in-depth in the PR soonish but i just wanted to say how helpful it was. 21:09:19 <11nikheizen> Buffing ^X how will tiles players ever recover 22:10:54 <08nicolae> i'm glad ebering seems to have enjoyed milo, i like it when new uniques get added ||plus it might get me off my butt and working on my own idea for a unique||