00:52:39 <09g​ammafunk> @hellmonk Pinging you since you're the most anti-cloud generator person I know. Idea for a redesign of cloud generators. All cloud generators become dedicated traps, that is an actual terrain type you can x-v, with there being a trap type for each cloud. This trap generates clouds of a specific type on all tiles on and adjacent to its position, so up to 9 squares if surrounding terrain is cloud 00:52:40 compatible. Cloud generation from these traps has some fixed reasonable rate that we determine, with the specification that at least one turn occurs after the cloud dissipates normally where no cloud is generated. A major change between this trap and cloud generators is that no cloud will generate if an actor is on the square. Hence you can always wait in the midst of a cloud generator for a square to open up. The 00:52:40 downside of being in a cloud generator is mostly about constricting your movement, possibly forcing you to move into damaging clouds if monsters are nearby and your position is bad and/or you need to escape. You can tweak this design a bit if you want to make it more impactful. Maybe it will generate clouds regardless of actors on the trap tile itself, for example. The idea is you'd use groups of these to take the 00:52:41 function of those previous cloud generators. Possibly the only exception would be the volcano effect, although you could certainly redesign those around fire cloud traps as well. 00:53:53 <09g​ammafunk> I can also imagine an alternate design where cloud traps just drop clouds on all nine tiles on and surrounding the player when monsters step on them, but this doesn't really replace the "area control" aspect of the old cloud generators very well. 01:00:18 <09g​ammafunk> smoke/salt cloud generators are another exception where it's probably fine to just have those remain as the current cloud gen marker 01:01:37 <09g​ammafunk> I could see reworking those instances to be the trap, but it might work so well in practice in all cases, particularly for Desolation, maybe also cloud mage wizlab 01:02:02 <09g​ammafunk> But harmless cloud generators are far less of an issue in general 01:21:31 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4217-g7c68dc2372 02:46:19 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1312-g5cdb2b3542 03:12:53 <09g​ammafunk> @hellmonk will probably write up the idea on a wiki page, but let me know wat u think 03:13:44 its a great honor to use this new chat technology with friends\ 03:17:55 <09g​ammafunk> who are you 03:20:36 you`re my biggest fan 03:20:50 i mean i'm you`re biggest fans 03:21:18 you're i'm biggest fan 03:30:55 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4217-g7c68dc2372 03:31:52 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-549-g838625012d 04:09:12 <09h​ellmonk> going too read this cloud post at some point where I'm not staying up to catch a 5 am uber to the airport 04:19:32 (Also, to report on Zigsprint Qazlal [+ Gong + Singing Sword]; powerful indeed, and would have been even stronger if I'd gotten my defenses in order sooner.) 04:19:32 GONNNNG! 04:55:22 <09g​ammafunk> dang have a safe flight 05:49:28 Ozo's Refrigeration can be casted with 'z' with an invisible enemy around. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12605 by Yermak 06:57:29 <09h​ellmonk> Ok my first instinct abt the cloud trap thing is it is still much better at preventing the player from moving forward (in combat) than it is at cutting off their escape, much like current cloud generators. Marking the cloud placement zones is a huge improvement though. 06:59:58 <09h​ellmonk> and icecave in particular will still have problems with several monsters not being immune to the clouds and dying to them, but that is difficult to resolve unless you explicitly place the clouds "behind" the player in some easily conveyable fashion 12:06:19 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1313-g2e558cd: Fix an information leak with LOS attack spells (#12605) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e558cd5dc1b 12:17:03 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1313-g2e558cd5dc (34) 12:20:14 Heartfang (L27 DsFi) ASSERT(defender->alive()) in 'fight.cc' at line 233 failed. (Slime:2) 12:27:56 !crashlog 12:27:58 23674. Heartfang, XL27 DsFi, T:70126 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Heartfang/crash-Heartfang-20210620-162014.txt 12:30:14 spectral, cleaving, and acid splash damage??? the perfectly designed melee crash situation 12:40:40 <10P​leasingFungus> lol 12:40:52 <10P​leasingFungus> assume this is my fault somehow 12:44:24 <05k​ate> i also didn't realise before that spectral weapons are called "Your spectral +0 spectral broad axe" 12:46:42 <05k​ate> i can't reproduce the exact crash but definitely bad things are happening when a spectral weapon dies to acid splash damage, no cleaving required 12:46:58 <05k​ate> Your spectral +0 spectral quarterstaff is burned by acid! env.mgrid at (48,23) points at dead monster spectral +0 spectral quarterstaff 12:48:27 <10P​leasingFungus> yikes 12:57:54 <05k​ate> the acid splash retaliation specifically doesn't clean up dead monsters and i can't imagine why but i bet something else different breaks if i change it 12:58:09 <09h​ellmonk> love it when my env.mgrid points at dead monster 13:06:00 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1313-g2e558cd (34) 13:23:09 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1314-gdfdbaa4: Don't allow GDR below 0% 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dfdbaa49b7e0 13:23:09 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1315-gb2afe90: Clean up monsters that die due to acid retaliation damage 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2afe90b7ebe 13:32:15 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1315-gb2afe90b7e (34) 13:36:04 04Build failed for 08master @ b2afe90b 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/954840737 13:53:03 <05k​ate> rip, i guess changing it causes different crashes that the test suite does catch or something 13:58:52 <05k​ate> time to run 99 rounds of cerebov v test spawner while i get food and see if i can learn anything useful 14:09:30 <10P​leasingFungus> lol 14:28:53 <05k​ate> wow nice it really was specifically the fact that it's a cerebov arena fight that causes the new crash i think, because fire vortices die after they make their attack 14:59:08 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1316-g0783df2: Fix a newly-introduced melee crash 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0783df26cff6 14:59:08 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1317-gd1140b3: Fix braces 10(29 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d1140b374ce5 15:00:36 <05k​ate> found a very good comment, i have no idea why this is in tilepick.cc: // There's room here to have different types of webs (acid? fire? ice? different strengths?) 15:00:53 <05k​ate> acid web traps coming soon 15:02:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1317-gd1140b374c (34) 15:18:01 <09h​ellmonk> spider rework adding distortion webs 17:08:28 <08w​ormsofcan> you mean chaos webs, right 18:24:03 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-1317-gd1140b374c (34) 18:25:32 <10P​leasingFungus> new idea: lehudib's crystallization. it's that time delay abs0 idea, but now it's L8 earth (replaces LCS) 18:25:45 <10P​leasingFungus> like the natural evolution of petrify 18:25:51 <10P​leasingFungus> also you get a salt block 19:15:08 <09g​ammafunk> I could see it 21:36:08 <08n​icolae> i vaguely recall suggesting acid webs on the tavern, millennia ago 21:36:27 -!- G-Flex is now known as mode_m_is_not_yo 21:36:35 -!- mode_m_is_not_yo is now known as not_your_persona 21:36:39 -!- not_your_persona is now known as personal_soapbox 21:36:51 -!- personal_soapbox is now known as G-Flex 21:41:47 -!- G-Flex is now known as b_i_g___o_o_f 21:41:50 -!- b_i_g___o_o_f is now known as G-Flex 21:48:04 -!- G-Flex is now known as free-tibet 21:48:06 -!- free-tibet is now known as G-Flex 21:57:17 <05k​ate> i did archaeology on it out of curiosity and it dates back to... 21:57:19 <05k​ate> %git 545ad87ee9cee 21:57:20 <04C​erebot> mumra {kilobyte} * 0.10-a0-393-g545ad87: Web trap initial implementation (10 years ago, 29 files, 259+ 5-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/545ad87ee9ce 21:57:53 <05k​ate> acid webs were our destiny from the very beginning 22:01:18 <10P​leasingFungus> wow 22:01:19 <10P​leasingFungus> good 22:01:34 <10P​leasingFungus> really enjoying that web immune list btw 22:02:07 <10P​leasingFungus> why do you think ice beasts were immune? 22:02:07 <10P​leasingFungus> (were? are?) 22:02:23 <08n​icolae> ice is the natural enemy of spider webs 22:44:34 <05k​ate> oh wow i have no idea, although to be fair the current list isn't much better 22:45:09 <05k​ate> (it's the same but with arachne, demonic crawlers and moths added instead of ice/sky beasts) 22:46:03 <08n​icolae> well, those make sense at least, arachne is technically a spider, and demonic crawlers and moths are all over spider 22:46:40 <05k​ate> true but spider branch natives have only been added at random it seems 22:46:47 <05k​ate> since emperor scorpions still get webbed 23:05:32 hellmonk @hellmonk i dont know what the wtf how to contat ppl here. new chat. whatever. you were talking about clouds in caves when i disconnected. enemy spell: creates clouds around a player with a five tile radius, regardless of los. the clouds disapate the opposite way silence does, slowly, say starting three turns, one tile away from the player 23:05:33 at a time. it doesnt disappear completely to prevent blinking away strategically - same reason for the clouds being created out of los and being radius dependant on the player 23:06:09 no cloud is created where the player is standing when the spell is cast 23:15:35 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1318-g0c770c2: Refactor Kiku book gifts 10(4 days ago, 4 files, 63+ 88-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c770c2c2858 23:15:35 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1319-geec4fb4: Refactor Kiku's Necronomicon gift, re-add Haunt 10(65 minutes ago, 10 files, 36+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eec4fb4e2191 23:16:50 I've play-tested trunk heavy on the spellcasting side, and I'd just like to say, the dropping of absolute zero, moving tornado to ice, and chain lightning updates are all positive changes IMO. Nicely done. 23:18:57 There seems to be a natural gravitation to train fire+air or ice+earth now. I'm not sure if that's intended, but they both compliment each other pretty well. The change for freezing cloud to level 5 is pretty bold. I think it may be too powerful a tad now - but I still enjoyed using it for mid-game. I think it's still pretty ok since it's a 3 school spell. I'd leave it at level 5 because it feels more correct than level 23:18:57 6, though it may be like a level 5.5 spell if that could exist. 23:19:53 ice magic held the oddest place in the center of the sun for .26 23:20:04 Absolute Zero was a really bad spell. I had games where I would train only ice and only for that spell.. that was a sure sign that something was wrong. 23:20:06 so unbelievably strong 23:20:43 i went ice more for FR and an easy early game to branch out into AZ more than anything at that time 23:21:26 spent months talking about how strong they were 23:21:26 true, FR is really good also... honestly, I'm training ice now all the time for ozocubu's armour.. that it works on heavier armour is so attractive. 23:21:55 In my level 27 conj/fire/air game, I ran ice at level 9 beforehand, and all the way through mid, even late game somewhat until it became irrelevant with firestorm and chain lightning. 23:23:01 that's how I was casting freezing cloud.. I branched from ice, to conj, to fire, then air 23:23:19 well, fire + air simultaneously, which was weird.. but it worked. 23:23:55 chain lighning now deal with those pesky birds in ice hell and in tomb... those were the best cases for tornado 23:25:36 I'm not sure I really even needed the fire branch 23:26:20 I think it may be more effective to just stay ice+conj+air for a future game 23:30:27 I'd like to see lightning bolt changed slightly so that it has a slightly higher minimum damage than "1", even if it is just by a little. That'd probably round air out so that air+conj builds don't need an early crutch. 23:33:05 <09g​ammafunk> training only ice is hardly a sign that it's a bad spell 23:34:32 <09g​ammafunk> and as was discussed in this channel and in the commit, the main issue with the spell was it's feel, not its power level 23:45:38 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak 23:46:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1319-geec4fb4e21 (34) 23:50:12 I experienced something weird. I drink identified !brilliance and then, 3 turns later I don't have Brill status. 23:50:28 drink-dentified* 23:50:41 <09g​ammafunk> !stalk yermak 23:50:43 <04C​erebot> Yermak the L4 VSAE^Qaz in Sewer (cko tiles), 0:09:22, T:2943, defenses: 2/12/2, stats: 11/16/14 23:50:58 those 3 turns were walking 23:51:01 <09g​ammafunk> !lm yermak -ttyrec 23:51:04 <04C​erebot> 134268. Yermak, XL4 VSAE, T:2943 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/ttyrec/Yermak/2021-06-21.03:33:12.ttyrec 23:52:40 <09g​ammafunk> Yermak: Different game from this VSAE? 23:54:41 <09g​ammafunk> in this one you identify brilliance from scroll of identification 23:54:52 <09g​ammafunk> next to purgy in a sewer 23:56:52 Thx, gamma. I feel really stupid. 23:57:19 <10P​leasingFungus> @kate ty for fixing up the kiku stuff! i've been very busy with my own game (it's in the steam demo festival and people keep finding bugs...), but i'm hoping to merge my book PR in a week or two. Let me know if you'd like me to hold off.