01:34:27 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56dd59 (34)
01:54:59 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56dd59
02:19:49 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56dd59 (34)
02:53:27 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56dd59
03:30:47 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd
05:56:40 -!- tiobot is now known as Guest30970
06:13:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
08:18:11 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> That folder is used for building the final mac app, so what is in there is actually just a template for the app, not a real app
08:18:37 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> (usually for dev purposes there's no reason to build the real app but if you look through the Makefile for mac-app there's some rules related to that)
08:19:17 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> I restarted it, it was some ci setup error
10:44:00 <advil> man, even after complaining about how much better things look in irc I still popped into discord and did some discord replies without marking them somehow
10:49:54 <advil> hm looks like the bot might eventually support marking replies but maybe not soon https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc/issues/573
10:52:31 <Pinkbeast> advil: We were talking yesterday about debugging; specifically, wondering if with the advent of seeds it would be viable/useful to capture all user input as well, so in the event of a crash the entire game state beforehand could be reproduced.
10:53:26 <advil> could be useful, though I should say I am pretty confident that the ui side of the rng is *not* fully seed stable
10:54:19 <advil> having looked at the nightmare that is getting seed-based replays to work in brogue, I'm not entirely sanguine about it being viable for a much more technically complicated game
10:55:29 <Pinkbeast> I was afraid you might say that - nh4 tried it, and while they were coming from a base which really doesn't care, they found it very hard.
10:55:29 <advil> one reason I am confident that it is not seed stable is that at some point in the past I have run qw repeatedly on the same seed and it isn't fully deterministic
10:55:29 <advil> which it should be
10:55:49 <Pinkbeast> How divergent is it? Six outcomes from a given start, or 600?
10:56:04 <advil> I haven't done enough testing across multiple seeds to really know
10:56:14 <advil> iirc in the cases I looked at it was more like a few?
10:57:05 <Pinkbeast> Still handy for debugging, few enough to get to the failed state, especially since if it's saved input not qw it'll die very soon
10:57:18 <Pinkbeast> Well, thanks, that's given me something to think about
10:59:26 <advil> a lot of the general work I have done on the prng system will help with gameplay seed stability, but for the exhaustive fixes that I have done (e.g. examining every instance of an rng call for sequencing issues) I set aside non-levelgen code
10:59:29 <advil> %git cdddf7c89e994
10:59:29 <Cheibriados> 07advil02 * 0.24-a0-2-gcdddf7c: Sequence many, many random calls whose order was undefined 10(2 years, 3 months ago, 32 files, 412+ 145-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cdddf7c89e99
11:00:09 <advil> e.g. this commit mostly didn't touch rng calls that are gameplay-only
11:00:29 <advil> (this one will affect seed stability across builds more than within builds)
11:02:11 <Pinkbeast> (we got an "Unlinked item held by dead monster" which set us down this line of thought)
11:05:42 <advil> yeah, that is the sort of bug where existing diagnostics don't help with replicating
13:06:38 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56d (34)
13:22:32 <Discord|> <11B​link> Quick question, in the crawl files there are classes like death knight, stalker, priest, are these upcoming classes or scrapped classes?
13:22:47 <Pinkbeast> Scrapper.
13:22:52 <Pinkbeast> *scrapped
13:23:56 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> !source job-type.h
13:23:57 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/job-type.h
13:24:20 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> if you look here, you can see the removed classes wrapped in #ifdefs
14:43:55 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1908 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1908
14:43:56 <Cheibriados> 03Goratrix02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1908 * 0.27-a0-999-gfda4a60: Fully rename Wizard to Hedge Wizard 10(5 minutes ago, 19 files, 39+ 39-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fda4a601bdfa
18:16:17 <Yermak> Dragon Call decreases summoner MP with each new dragon appearing. Djinni has no MP, nor does Dj pay HP. Was this intended?
18:16:43 <Pinkbeast> Oh, wow, that's marvellous
18:17:36 <gammafunk> Yermak: definitely a bug; it should just cost HP for each new dragon (if that would not kill you)
18:17:40 <gammafunk> should be an easy fix
18:20:50 <gammafunk> Yermak: actually, aren't dj paying HP already
18:20:50 <gammafunk> from what I see of the code, this should be the case
18:21:54 <gammafunk> Yermak: yeah, I seem to be paying HP for each new dragon as a Dj
18:21:56 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> they do pay hp
18:22:02 <gammafunk> perhaps you missed the HP reduction
18:22:14 <gammafunk> yeah, seems to be working just fine
18:22:21 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> heard some people talking about how it’s a bit dangerous
18:22:46 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> since it’ll drain you down to 1 if you have high enough duration and low enough hp
18:22:49 <gammafunk> seems ok to me; the cost is not very high per summon, and that is the life of the djinn
18:22:57 <gammafunk> true, but it only summons for new hostiles appearing
18:23:03 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> sure
18:23:09 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-998-g4cfe56dd59 (34)
18:23:10 <gammafunk> so you have to be kind of aggressively encountering new monsters
18:23:11 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> think it’s fine design wise
18:23:13 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> ie the classic "you knew what you signed up for"
18:23:14 <gammafunk> agree
18:23:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> just saying from player perspective
18:23:22 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> playerthink
18:23:24 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you know
18:23:41 <gammafunk> I *DO NOT* know what players think! I DO NOT!
18:23:50 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wow
18:23:52 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> anyway
18:24:05 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> i find the very idea of a player that thinks offensive!
18:24:06 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> v curious if there’s some way to sometimes make it free for dj
18:24:13 <gammafunk> yeah
18:24:15 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> or if yermak just missed the cost
18:24:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> either seems plausible
18:24:25 <gammafunk> hrm, maybe we could watch one of his recent tvs
18:24:26 <Discord|> <05k​ate> could just be outregenerating it so it's not noticeable
18:24:27 <gammafunk> !lm yermak
18:24:28 <Sequell> 128332. [2021-04-16 22:19:45] Yermak the Archmage (L27 DjGl of Makhleb) found a demonic rune of Zot on turn 83704. (Pan)
18:24:34 <Pinkbeast> Incidentally if you use wizmode to set Summonings to 27 on Dj it crashes, which is no big deal but maybe shouldn't crash
18:24:39 <gammafunk> yeah, true; the summon cost is smallish
18:25:12 <gammafunk> &dump yermak
18:25:14 <Sequell> https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Yermak/Yermak.txt
18:25:33 <gammafunk> well that's certainly out of date
18:25:41 <gammafunk> !lm yermak -tv:<2
18:25:42 <Sequell> 128335. Yermak, XL27 DjGl, T:84539 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.shalott.org or https://termcast.shalott.org.
18:26:41 <Yermak> Yes, I might have missed it.
20:47:30 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-999-g3ad0f94: Remove the Random Bolt spell 10(22 hours ago, 15 files, 5+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ad0f943fecf
20:47:30 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1000-ge615954: Update Cleansing Flame description (#12200) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6159548ff95
20:47:30 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1001-gb18e172: Adjust Barachi mutation description 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b18e172e6974
20:47:30 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1002-g57dfabe: Improve known/unknown staircase descriptions (#1621) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57dfabebf2ba
20:47:30 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1003-geb3bcc3: Adjust some stealth handling 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb3bcc31697e
20:51:33 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> rip random bolt
20:51:48 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> reminds me about how weird crystal bolt is
20:51:50 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> @kate eb3bcc3 looks like it removed hooves/paws stealth effects, is that intentional?
20:52:04 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> > ...and removes the marginal stealth penalty and bonus > from hooves and paws respectively.
20:52:11 <Discord|> <05k​ate> it was, yeah
20:52:17 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> ah, hm
20:52:27 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> it's like there's no difference between hooves and talons now!
20:52:56 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> are you sure the paws one was what you think it is? that is the felid stealth bonus
20:54:04 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> agreed that it is weird that it is minor (I added that XX) but there's a bunch of other docs to adjust if that's going away
20:54:04 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i don't have strong opinions on them although the felid paws thing was the actual last remaining thing where flight acted as a downside i think?
20:54:12 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> I see
20:54:37 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> it probably wasn't very impactful at that value, so maybe it won't be noticeable
20:54:39 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i could see just giving them a regular full pip of stealth and letting it work during flight (and coming up with some weird magic reason why)
20:54:56 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> I wasn't really thinking about the flight interaction
20:55:16 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> fluffy, small
20:55:16 <Discord|> <05k​ate> or yeah, can just update the docs and not say that the paws help, they probably get most of their stealth bonus by virtue of being tiny anyway
20:55:35 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> the manual is non-specific about how they get stealth so its wording probably still makes sense from the apt
20:57:02 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> so maybe it's just the MUT_PAWS description
20:58:19 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1004-g9da5d22: Update MUT_PAWS description (advil) 10(38 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9da5d22180f1
21:17:49 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1004-g9da5d22180 (34)
21:35:25 <Yermak> Umm, kate-, Cleansing Flame also doesn't harm normal (non-evil, non-divine) allies (no prompt, too). Technically now description doesn't lie, but it still feels off.
21:41:43 <Discord|> <05k​ate> oh, i guess the fact that you can now enslave undead/demons while under good gods is what threw it off
21:46:53 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i guess it's technically accurate now yeah, but removing the line about divine allies entirely probably makes it less confusing
21:47:46 <Discord|> <05k​ate> powerful secret tech: enslave a profane servitor so that you can cleansing flame other undead/demons without it being affected
21:49:02 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-1005-gb2ee965: New Sastreii tiles 10(38 seconds ago, 7 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2ee965f6f0e
21:49:44 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wow
21:49:44 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> re next commit: very possible i should use these boots tile as alternates instead of just replacing the old ones
21:49:44 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> but i wasn't sure how to do that in the code, so i gave up
21:50:08 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1006-g1fd4cec: Simplify Cleansing Flame description (Yermak) 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1fd4cec11e79
21:57:14 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> @Sastreii your new tiles are in, thanks! people think new hydras are very cute.
22:02:33 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1006-g1fd4cec11e (34)
23:22:08 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy