01:34:48 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-808-g60bc5d92e6 (34)
01:56:18 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-808-g60bc5d92e6
02:50:01 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-808-g60bc5d92e6 (34)
02:54:06 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-808-g60bc5d92e6
03:38:40 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4116-g4a9585b5cb
05:58:59 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
08:56:22 <advil> anyone have a guess as to why dragons are giant, but forbid swimming, and then the form code ignores FC_FORBID for giant forms and lets them swim? It's fairly irrelevant now that they are permaflying I suppose
10:17:16 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> absolutely no idea
10:17:23 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> also vaguely wonder if there's a bug with dactions
10:17:48 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i've seen people reporting lemures sticking around on other floors after killing pikel and zombie allies sticking around after abandoning yred for tso
10:18:34 <Discord|> <12e​bering> seems like soemthing is up yes
11:46:31 <advil> is it correct that gray dracs in dragon form don't get a breath weapon? seems flavorfully consistent but I just want to make sure this isn't an issue I introduced
12:34:55 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i think that's intended behaviour yeah, as long as their bonus AC carries over intro dragon form still
13:28:11 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-808-g60bc5d9 (34)
14:59:59 <Discord|> <03w​heals> the weirdness with giant forms could be related to treeform originally being giant sized
15:00:09 <Discord|> <03w​heals> might not be, though
15:27:00 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-809-gf5e90e4: Reorganize and namespace most of species.cc 10(5 minutes ago, 54 files, 853+ 825-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f5e90e4038da
15:39:44 <Cheibriados> New branch created: meatscore (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/meatscore
15:39:45 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[meatscore] * 0.27-a0-810-gb7e3809: Fix custom scoring overflows 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 20+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7e380964685
15:42:07 <advil> that's on a branch because if anyone wants to make bigger revisions to meatsprint scoring, it should probably happen together with that commit (or part of it), but I don't care a lot so won't do it myself
15:42:24 <advil> (had that on my git stash for weeks and forgot about it)
15:45:14 <gammafunk> advil: yeah, I'd like for meatsprint to A) properly note the rune in the logfile, for some reason it doesn't and B) properly account for rune in score and C) make non-winning runs be worth less then winning runs and winning runs without the rune be worth less than winning runs with the rune
15:46:15 <gammafunk> it'd be nice if those tiers had asymptotes so that winning was always greater score-wise than non-winning
15:46:15 <gammafunk> the reason why winning is significant in meatsprint is because you have to get *back* to the center and exit
15:46:32 <gammafunk> the turn campers are just hiding in an area of the map (probably only formicids using their dig)
15:47:00 <advil> is the map diggable?
15:47:06 <gammafunk> yes
15:47:08 <gammafunk> partially
15:47:22 <gammafunk> !lg * recent turns>5000 s=char
15:47:24 <Sequell> 337453 games for * (recent turns>5000): 16902x MiFi, 16619x MiBe, 11195x GrFi, 10230x FoFi, 7943x HOFi, 7216x DECj, 6626x DsFi, 6108x DsGl, 5555x DDFi, 5471x GrEE, 5469x OpTm, 5246x GnWn, 5064x DrTm, 4533x TrMo, 4169x GnFi, 3784x DrCj, 3323x HOMo, 3252x TrFi, 3188x DEFE, 3167x SpEn, 3126x OpFi, 2813x MfGl, 2713x DsBe, 2546x TeAE, 2270x TrBe, 2163x OpVM, 2161x DEVM, 2123x MiGl, 2106x DsAK, 2086x VS...
15:47:28 <gammafunk> !lg * recent turns>5000 s=char meatsprint
15:47:28 <Sequell> 3 games for * (recent turns>5000 meatsprint): 2x FoFi, FoWr
15:47:53 <gammafunk> namely fully diggable except for the spawn area
15:47:56 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-809-gf5e90e4038 (34)
15:48:16 <advil> huh
15:48:16 <gammafunk> a good strat is to actually camp near that area to limit digging from the vile monsters
15:48:26 <gammafunk> could make the border non-diggable
15:48:39 <advil> yeah, when I walled myself in to test that commit I did get dug out pretty regularly
15:48:53 <gammafunk> but I'm not sure it has to go that far; species are a major difficulty selector for this sprint
15:49:06 <gammafunk> but that seems ok; I'd just like score to reflect the actual hard things to do
15:49:30 <gammafunk> Fo would have an easier time winning than most because it can dig, but to win it actually has to be back to the center
15:49:48 <gammafunk> vs just camping in a corner and meaninglessly racking up points
15:49:51 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> do think we should ban manass woe axe
15:49:57 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> if we want score to matter
15:50:04 <gammafunk> you know you're always for banning man asses
15:50:10 <gammafunk> but I won't question it further
15:50:12 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> pretty messed up ya
15:50:28 <gammafunk> I'm kind of conflicted about MA and meatsprint
15:50:35 <gammafunk> because it's not trivial to win with that spell
15:50:37 <gammafunk> it just makes you stronger
15:50:41 <gammafunk> and PF, I've been doing this
15:50:47 <gammafunk> !lg . fewr meatsprint
15:50:48 <Sequell> 60. gammafunk the Portalist (L13 FeWr of Makhleb), quit the game in Sprint (Sprint VIII: "Arena of Blood") on 2021-03-28 13:28:03, with 3500000 points after 35 turns and 0:00:46.
15:50:52 <gammafunk> as of yet, I've not won
15:51:01 <gammafunk> because just to *memorize* MA is a real challenge
15:51:10 <gammafunk> it's an rng roll, but so are a lot of aspects of meatsprint
15:52:05 <gammafunk> I kind of feel we should just allow it so people can play the map that way if they want
15:52:05 <gammafunk> and there's strat behind using it too
15:52:05 <gammafunk> not like when you get it you can just do w/e
15:52:05 <gammafunk> because targets are random, you have limited mp
15:52:05 <gammafunk> for Dj it's a special case, that's like "easy mode"
15:52:06 <gammafunk> but that's casting from HP for you
15:52:27 <gammafunk> but for non-dj, even if you memorize it successfully (very non-trivial)
15:52:28 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> fr: a creature called "salander mystic" so the map parser doesn't yell at me when i'm testing snake vaults with typos
15:52:35 <gammafunk> you have like 11 casts of it
15:52:40 <gammafunk> you do get some magic pots
15:53:03 <gammafunk> but even with felid lives where MP restored after each death, and you can gain more lives, I've come close to winning after memorizing MA
15:53:06 <gammafunk> but so far haven't yet
15:53:17 <gammafunk> CurlyBrace managed to do it
15:53:50 <gammafunk> so yeah I guess I'm for allowing MA with woe because it's a fun sort of strat that's only broken for one species
15:53:59 <gammafunk> however if you feel strongly I'll defer to you
15:54:11 <gammafunk> I will ask that you win a FeWr in meatsprint before making the commit though
15:54:15 <kate-> i think for sprints generally it's fine for some combos/builds to be a little absurd yeah, obviously there's still a line where stuff should be tweaked but i think it's okay to be pretty generous in terms of what's allowed
16:00:23 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> fair enough
16:00:33 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> def agreed it’s only really silly on dj
16:00:41 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> and dj still not locked down
16:01:15 <gammafunk> @nicolae you know what I hate more than anything? typos where you put no / separator after a line continuation in MONS/ITEM statments, or if you have the separator but no line continuation
16:01:22 <gammafunk> because those make the game crash when the vault is placed
16:01:47 <gammafunk> I forget this as a common source of crashes every few months and have to figure out why my vault is crashing the game when I place it
16:11:52 <advil> that probably could be made to produce an error rather than a crash
16:12:00 <Discord|> <08n​icolae> lol i don't think i've had those often but damn
16:21:46 <Pinkbeast> Presumably FoWr can dig in long enough to memorise MA?
16:22:34 <Pinkbeast> I've certainly learned the old Wr starting book as Fo, it just doesn't do you any good
17:00:57 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> @advil would be wonderful of both those cases could produce an error instead of crashing, yeah
17:16:14 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-810-gaedb56b: Update and reword some item and ego descriptions 10(38 minutes ago, 2 files, 72+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aedb56b00efd
17:16:14 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-811-ga052575: Update white draconian ability descriptions 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0525756968d
17:18:33 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
17:32:08 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-811-ga052575696 (34)
17:46:51 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> @kate why remove shielding from amu of reflect desc?
17:47:21 <Discord|> <05k​ate> that's the short desc that shows up on randarts, and they already get a separate line with an explicit "it increases your SH (+5)"
17:47:54 <Discord|> <05k​ate> like with fire/ice just having the "it enhances your magic" line there, and then the resistances/vulnerabilities get separate lines
17:48:11 <Discord|> <05k​ate> (the whole thing is definitely quite confusingly implemented though)
18:22:33 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-811-ga052575696 (34)
18:38:47 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> ah, gotcha
18:38:53 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> makes sense!
18:38:56 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> well
18:39:01 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> as much as it can
19:52:54 <Discord|> <05k​ate> hmm, does anyone have opinions on removing blurry vision and just letting ru's -scroll mut replace it as a random bad mutation? it's maybe a shame to reduce its uniqueness but ru does have a few other sacrifices that are in the random mut pool too, and -scroll is a much better implementation of the effect i think
19:52:58 <|amethyst> advil: liking the move to namespaces!
19:54:41 <Discord|> <05k​ate> (in particular, blurry vision turning an action that's not normally a delay into a delay has weird consequences for monster action timing after you read a scroll iirc)
20:09:13 <|amethyst> kate-:  sounds most reasonable
20:09:46 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i personally like the nastiness of blurry vis but the code is scary
20:09:52 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wrong kind of nasty
20:09:58 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> so maybe that’s a good change
20:10:39 <|amethyst> could combine the effects into one mut
20:11:53 <|amethyst> can't read if you took damage, blurry if you didn't
20:13:15 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i feel like there's also sort of a weird thing at the moment where it's pretty easy to get rid of bad mutations, so it's a bit hard to have particularly effective bad mutations
20:13:52 <Discord|> <05k​ate> so maybe having more medium-bad than extremely-bad muts is unintuitively better
20:14:05 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> gamma’s been angling for mut reform in some way for a while
20:14:35 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> |amethyst: not sure that solves anything, sadly...
20:14:38 <|amethyst> seems like adjusting numbers of different effect types on !mut would solve most of that
20:15:23 <Discord|> <05k​ate> !mut maybe just tends towards removing too many mutations at the moment yeah
20:15:27 <|amethyst> !PleasingFungus Reduces the number of mutations by one, so solves a minor thing
20:16:13 <|amethyst> "solves"
20:18:41 <|amethyst> but, yeah, I'd be perfectly happy with MUT_READ_SAFETY only and no remnants of Blurry Vision
20:23:16 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1855 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1855
20:23:16 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1855 * 0.27-a0-812-g6db7be4: Identify non-random potion types in many vaults. 10(11 minutes ago, 13 files, 206+ 152-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6db7be44b405
20:27:34 <gammafunk> yeah, to be clear, I don't have any specifics ready for mut reform; just something I wanted to brainstorm in terms of a grander redesign
20:27:48 <gammafunk> so don't let that stop anyone from tweaking mutations/mut pots/etc
21:17:33 <Discord|> <05k​ate> my other medium-sized plan was to rework scales a bit, and make most of them demonspawn only but to get rid of the maximum 3 limit otherwise
21:22:39 <Discord|> <05k​ate> the limit makes sense in terms of avoiding xom giving you infinite AC or whatever but making there only be one random +AC mut seems like it'd achieve that better
21:23:39 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> reasonable
21:26:04 <spicycebolla> can xom currently give additional scales to ds?
21:26:11 <Discord|> <05k​ate> also means i get to stealth buff nagas, currently they can only get 2 levels of scale mutations compared to everyone else's 3!
21:26:37 <spicycebolla> iirc xom can't, which is funny to me - non-ds can become scalier than ds
21:27:36 <Discord|> <05k​ate> DS can mutate scales if its the scales that they're eventually going to get anyway
21:27:36 <Discord|> <05k​ate> (from xom as well as from regular sources of mutation, i think)
21:34:19 <Pinkbeast> FWIW FoWr can very easily dig in and memorise MA in meatsprint
22:18:31 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-812-ga80ff18: Remove some obsolete ability descriptions 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a80ff184b9f1
22:18:31 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-813-g3ac44f6: Fix a description typo 10(42 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ac44f607f59
22:27:55 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> kate en fuego
22:31:53 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-813-g3ac44f607f (34)
23:27:49 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-814-g66c8afc: Rework scale mutations 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 27+ 51-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66c8afceed30
23:27:49 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-815-g9cdcd13: Allow Ru's -Scroll as a random mutation replacing Blurry Vision 10(2 hours ago, 9 files, 24+ 155-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cdcd136b336
23:27:49 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-816-g5cefef2: Remove the blink mutation 10(75 minutes ago, 6 files, 9+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5cefef2e5408
23:31:07 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> oh nice
23:31:22 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> big fan of the last commit in particular
23:31:42 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i was surprised to see it still existed, yeah!
23:35:47 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i got it recently i think
23:35:58 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> might have even used it
23:37:42 <Discord|> <05k​ate> impressive, remembering to actually use +blink when it's a randart prop or whatever is some kind of superpower imo
23:38:52 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> one of my finest moments
23:40:21 <spicycebolla> i keep a list of escape options next to the game once i have a rune
23:40:45 <spicycebolla> especially infrequently used god powers or situational wands
23:46:14 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-816-g5cefef2e54 (34)
23:56:18 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 5cefef2e 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/696532691