00:38:11 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:38:46 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:39:09 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:39:48 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:39:53 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:39:58 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:40:02 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 00:40:25 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 01:08:54 <10PleasingFungus> uh! 01:08:58 <10PleasingFungus> !crashlog anet 01:08:59 <04Cerebot> 20. anet, XL7 HOFi, T:5819 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/anet/crash-anet-20210321-044023.txt 01:09:17 <10PleasingFungus> /usr/games/crawl-git-aed091b46b(_Z7calc_mpb+0x3d) [0x55a4e1b0899d]: calc_mp(bool) /usr/games/crawl-git-aed091b46b(_Z17ash_check_bondagev+0x32e) [0x55a4e185012e]: ash_check_bondage() /usr/games/crawl-git-aed091b46b(_Z12startup_stepv+0x195d) [0x55a4e1bd78ed]: startup_step() 01:10:57 <10PleasingFungus> mp = mp * new_max / old_max; 01:13:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-695-gb495237: Avoid a divide by zero 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b4952372f70c 01:14:10 <10PleasingFungus> hopefully this is a fix 01:14:10 <10PleasingFungus> ??rebuild 01:14:10 <04Cerebot> rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ https://cbro.berotato.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.kelbi.org/rebuild/ Bug gammafunk, advil, |amethyst, or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 01:14:10 <10PleasingFungus> hm, can't rebuild cue 01:14:10 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/823061818611466310/unknown.png 01:14:10 <10PleasingFungus> without messing with ssl anyway 01:16:53 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 (34) 01:34:30 New branch created: a_bad_day_for_obs (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/a_bad_day_for_obs 01:34:30 03PleasingFungus02 07[a_bad_day_for_obs] * 0.27-a0-696-ga523862: Nerf early-game weapon user damage 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a52386242ac4 01:34:30 03PleasingFungus02 07[a_bad_day_for_obs] * 0.27-a0-697-g5910a5b: Remove early-game weaponless enemies 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 19+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5910a5bdcbd6 01:40:54 New branch created: pull/1841 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1841 01:40:54 Branch pull/1841 updated to be equal with a_bad_day_for_obs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1841 02:17:03 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 (34) 02:34:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 (34) 02:56:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 03:27:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:30:44 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4053-g610ae06132 03:31:57 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-206-g9fafb17483 03:54:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 06:13:38 -!- Thurl is now known as Nivim 07:16:17 <05kate> i'm not fully convinced that newdj will manage to avoid being overloaded with special-casing again, the way book starts work with them seems a bit weird and undocumented already? not sure how best to communicate that 07:17:27 <05kate> being nonliving is also innately messy, but i guess just giving them the pois immunity but with normal torment/rN is better a better approach than with gargoyles 07:25:07 <05kate> they can probably get eg battlesphere and spellforged servitor as useless spells currently, not sure if there are any others 07:26:02 <05kate> i suppose those could be marked as useless if you don't know any spells that they work with 07:26:43 <05kate> although it seems strange to prevent memorising them for other species in that case 07:45:15 <05kate> oh! also seems like a good chance to swap Dr back to their rightful place as the simple category "caster" species, Dj definitely don't seem like they'd qualify as simple 09:24:45 <08Lasty> @PleasingFungus what percentage of Delver runs should be able to survive starting on d:5? I'm finding the number of starts with no meaningful chance (at least that I perceive) to be frustrating. Here's my most recent one, where I started out in a bandshell with an awake centaur a couple steps away, a white imp behind that, and the up stairs a huge distance away. Downstairs, there was an orc band w/ 09:24:46 warrior and priest within sight of the stairs, and centaur down the hallway, etc. etc. 09:24:51 <08Lasty> !lg lasty -log 09:24:51 <04Cerebot> 1232. Lasty, XL1 VSDe, T:293: https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/Lasty/morgue-Lasty-20210321-131812.txt 09:28:15 <08Lasty> And let's say someone finds a way to survive that and get to a stable start. Chances are they've burned all the starting items and they're left with what -- a charge of digging? Some ID'd items? A bunch of Stealth skill? 09:28:57 <08Lasty> This feels like it should be a dungeon sprint instead, where you win by getting from D:5 to D:1 and ascending. 09:34:03 <08Lasty> This also feels like a bad combo w/ seeded starts, since you could pick a seed that has a known clear path to D:1 10:05:59 <10PleasingFungus> i'd think maybe 80%? 10:06:53 <10PleasingFungus> !lg yermak delver lvl<6 / !won 10:06:54 <04Cerebot> 7/24 games for yermak (delver lvl<6): N=7/24 (29.17%) 10:07:07 <10PleasingFungus> !lg lici delver lvl<6 / !won 10:07:08 <04Cerebot> No games for lici (delver lvl<6). 10:07:14 <10PleasingFungus> !lg yermak delver lvl<6 !boring / !won 10:07:15 <04Cerebot> 7/24 games for yermak (delver lvl<6 !boring): N=7/24 (29.17%) 10:07:24 <06advil> I mean, all seeded starts are deterministic, not sure this is so different from the general case 10:08:18 <10PleasingFungus> !lg bmfx lvl<6 !boring / !won 10:08:18 <04Cerebot> 792/1574 games for bmfx (lvl<6 !boring): N=792/1574 (50.32%) 10:08:18 <10PleasingFungus> !lg bmfx lvl<6 delver !boring / !won 10:08:18 <04Cerebot> 11/38 games for bmfx (lvl<6 delver !boring): N=11/38 (28.95%) 10:08:18 <10PleasingFungus> looks like about 70% delver early survival rate for really good players 10:08:55 <10PleasingFungus> agreed it's not a strong start overall, more of a challenge start, but you could say the same of mu-- 10:09:19 <10PleasingFungus> one advantage over a dungeon sprint is that you get the satisfaction of going back to those deep levels earlier and beating up the guys you had to run away from at first 10:10:07 guys, correction: 10:10:12 !lg . delver !dd lvl<6 / !won 10:10:13 0/16 games for Yermak (delver !dd lvl<6): N=0/16 (0.00%) 10:10:22 <10PleasingFungus> haha 10:10:24 <10PleasingFungus> ty yermak 10:10:34 <10PleasingFungus> what happened to the dds? 10:10:43 speed runs 10:10:46 <10PleasingFungus> gotcha 10:11:18 <10PleasingFungus> !lg bmfx lvl<6 delver !boring !won s=crace 10:11:20 <04Cerebot> 11 games for bmfx (lvl<6 delver !boring !won): 2x Hill Orc, 2x Gnoll, 2x Deep Elf, 2x Ghoul, Barachi, Palentonga, Vine Stalker 10:11:53 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, looks like the expected winrate is 100% 🙂 10:12:00 <10PleasingFungus> for a very very good player 10:12:13 I had really close calls 10:12:51 <10PleasingFungus> certainly possible! and yeah, the book start thing is very weird; i'd sort of prefer if they just started with the lvl 1 spell and not the rest of the book, but i was following the older implementation 10:15:11 <10PleasingFungus> i also considered making them holy holiness with a slightly different flavour, but wasn't sure it really accomplished anything 10:15:20 <10PleasingFungus> good point! i can wiggle with that 10:16:35 <10PleasingFungus> hm, my hypothesis was that they'd qualify as simpler from the player perspective in the same way that gn does: much simpler strategic decisions (skilling, spell memorization). you don't think so? 11:15:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-718-g8607b3e: Fix plurals (borekl) 10(25 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8607b3e73113 11:16:00 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 11:37:35 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-719-gbdf83c4: Ban useless dj bspheres & servitors (kate) 10(36 seconds ago, 3 files, 32+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdf83c4e57c4 11:37:53 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 11:50:39 <05kate> oh just starting with only the L1 spell from the book might be a good approach yeah, that way it acts a lot more like an extra piece of starting gear instead of making a huge change to the rest of your levelups (since the book spells also ignore the max spell level restrictions that you'd normally have). it does mean that the book starts are way less impactful but it'd be a lot more faithful to the 11:50:39 species conduct 12:01:29 <05kate> i think they change the game in a much more substantial way than Gr does, certainly not having to think about spell skills/choices is simpler in some ways but casting from HP doesn't feel like a "simple" mechanic. and compared to a Dr book start (assuming the above is also changed), you then have a lot more to learn and adapt to with your spells all being random instead of being a consistent set 12:01:29 <10PleasingFungus> it also means i get to delete a lot of code! tragically no millikates, since it never made it into master 12:01:55 <10PleasingFungus> did you see any of the argument that led to me moving dr out of 'simple'? i can dig up a link 12:02:49 <10PleasingFungus> agree that dj changes the game substantially, but i'm not sure how much that matters in terms of classing a race as 'simple' or not - if 'simple' races should be more approachable to beginners, who don't have a strong grasp of the game regardless, maybe it matters less if they don't fit as well with the 'standard' playstyle? (since newer players wouldn't be good at the standard playstyle 12:02:49 either) 12:03:07 <10PleasingFungus> https://discord.com/channels/205277826788622337/205316046230388737/822278345818374184 discussion started here 12:03:20 <05kate> yeah, i don't really agree with it, certainly there's a bit of randomisation but you're mostly just getting a good free ranged attack and a defensive bonus, even if they're random that's a fairly small thing to adapt to 12:03:22 <10PleasingFungus> oh, you replied like 3 messages later 12:03:30 <10PleasingFungus> heh 12:03:37 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, don't feel strongly about this one 12:03:46 <10PleasingFungus> perfectly happy to swap dr and dj on the columns 12:11:04 <05kate> i do wonder if it'd be worth dropping the rF+/rC- gimmick too, it seems like a bit of a holdover from the old design too? i'm not necessarily opposed to negative resistances as a downside but it probably also punishes the approachability for new players a fair bit, i'd expect a huge ice beast death rate at least 12:13:20 <10PleasingFungus> it felt like good theme to me 12:13:29 <10PleasingFungus> but i'd be fine with switching it to just rF+ 12:13:32 <10PleasingFungus> (and no rC-) 12:14:18 <10PleasingFungus> did think it might be neat to have an rC- race in terms of making the race a bit more distinctive for melee chars, which would feel pretty close to human otherwise 12:14:32 <10PleasingFungus> but there could be other ways to approach that 12:16:03 <10PleasingFungus> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840#issuecomment-803612737 tangential: i wrote up some thoughts on HP costs and scaling 12:17:38 <05kate> i guess Dr also has sort-of-but-not-quite rC-, come to think of it 12:19:47 <10PleasingFungus> oh, ha, yes 12:19:53 <10PleasingFungus> the weird slow on freeze thing 12:20:10 <05kate> i always forget that exists until the first time it happens in a game, yeah 12:20:29 <05kate> but yeah, i do think it's fine as a thematic thing and having an actual rC- species is fun, it's just another bit of a push away from being particularly simple maybe 12:21:03 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-720-g9d387ed: Swap NG position for dr/dj (kate) 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9d387ed34d2d 12:21:21 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 12:21:37 <10PleasingFungus> yep 12:27:27 <05kate> and in general i definitely am curious to try out the passive spells conduct, i've enjoyed gnolls for encouraging using a bunch of whatever spells i find even if they're not things i'd normally memorise since they're all castable anyway, so this seems also potentially good too in that regard 12:29:10 <10PleasingFungus> i was fairly skeptical about it but players love ds and it’s ds-ish 12:35:37 <05kate> heh yeah, i'm a certified ds enjoyer also, i'll try and poke at a newdj locally sometime soon, or if someone's able to put it up on the dev experimental server that'd be great 12:37:19 <10PleasingFungus> sure. i'm planning to do a little playtesting hopefully today, and gammafunk volunteered to put up an experimental once i'm ready 12:37:33 <10PleasingFungus> tyvm for the opinions and advice! i really appreciate having another set of eyes on this 12:42:36 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-721-gbdcccb5: Prematurely micromanage Dj hp 10(61 seconds ago, 4 files, 20+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdcccb570bfb 12:42:54 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 13:06:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb495237 (34) 13:12:59 <12ebering> Haven't had time to dive the code and @advil is the better person to look: have you made sure that the spell selection for a Dj is seed stable (like ds muts)? 13:18:10 <12ebering> Also re: starting books, I somewhat like the just starting with the L1 spell approach to the book starts. Three issues: this means Cj and HW both start with magic dart (sad imo); Wr starts with nothing (probably fine); Does Ne get Pain and Skeleton or only Pain? 13:19:28 <12ebering> I also somewhat dislike it: it means the mage backgrounds are much more similar w.r.t. gear and starting stats 13:47:32 <08Lasty> @PleasingFungus I think the point you're making is that some of the best players can avoid losing close to 100% of delver starts. That does address my assertion that the starts are unfair, and pushes me to reconsider whether I'm playing the delver starts I get correctly. This leaves open other questions: 1) Does this start offer anything unique beyond a starting challenge? Put another way, once th 13:47:33 opening challenge is overcome, does it create a good and unique start to the game, and/or does the opening challenge inform your early character in a meaningful way? Or is this character basically a brigand with a bad opening inventory, skillset, and a bonus challenge? 2) If we take the assumption that my frustration with these openings is not just a run of bad luck, but also a reflection of my skill level at 13:47:33 doing these openings, do we want an opening that is this punishing for players that are not among the best? I'm saying this as someone who loves mummy starts, happily defends shaft traps, etc. 3) Would you want to see more unique challenge openings where the player plays a challenge minigame before reaching the start of the normal game? 13:52:53 <10PleasingFungus> good point! no, i haven't checked; i can try to look, though i'm not familiar with that code 13:53:11 <10PleasingFungus> think ne would get one of the two at random? agree w your takes on pros/cons 13:56:05 <05kate> i think for Ne you'd have to pick one or the other or both (probably just pain is fine?), adding starting randomisation back doesn't sound like a good thing to reintroduce 13:58:43 <08nicolae> maybe djinn ne get to pick their starting spell 13:59:02 <10PleasingFungus> mm 13:59:12 <10PleasingFungus> probably just pain, yes; prefer to avoid introducing more starting choices 13:59:15 <10PleasingFungus> lemme reply to lasty 14:00:46 <10PleasingFungus> (1) I agree that delver is basically just a starting challenge! but aren't most backgrounds essentially just starting challenges? We say that a background is 'your kit to survive the early game'; isn't that another way of saying the same thing? Certainly some backgrounds carry you farther (book starts, in particular), but how different is fi from gl from ar? Are they really more different 14:00:47 from each other than from delver? 14:03:15 <10PleasingFungus> (2) Again, I'm really sorry delver has been frustrating for you! That certainly wasn't my intent in designing it. The great thing about this background is that it's optional, it's not recommended, and its challenge isn't 'hidden' - it's clear to players that it's a hard background. Perhaps because of that, I've received overwhelmingly positive feedback about delver - most players I've heard 14:03:15 from about delver have been moderately to strongly positive about it, and I haven't heard from anyone else who feels strongly negatively about it. (In contrast, I still get a steady stream of complaints about shaft traps...) 14:04:33 <10PleasingFungus> (3) I'd be potentially open to more 'challenge minigames' if I heard a good design for them, yes! (If this resulted in us having 'too many backgrounds' or 'too many melee starts' or such, we could consolidate some existing backgrounds.) 14:05:43 <08Lasty> I think the argument you're making here is that a background defines the starting challenges you experience in the first few levels, and that any changes in what constitutes "the first few levels" is just as interesting as a change to which tools you bring to those first few levels. I think this argument would imply that it could be interesting to start with a kit similar to other backgrounds, but 14:05:44 without any skills, or with a ring that makes you permanently marked and which you can't remove until XL4. 14:06:26 <10PleasingFungus> probably some of this folds into gammafunk's long-standing suggestion of 'difficulty levels' 14:06:42 <10PleasingFungus> could have 'difficulty options' (modifiers, mutators, etc) that would encapsulate some of these challenges, and even allow combining them 14:06:55 <08Lasty> And this may be the biggest break from my understanding, where I had understood the backgrounds to be only a set of tools you bring to the first few levels, and not a change of the ambient difficulty of those levels. 14:07:57 <08Lasty> It's possible I'm just being a curmudgeon here. I should probably chill out on this for a bit and see how I feel about embracing the spirit of the background. 14:08:41 @Lasty One thing about crawl's species and classes is that they absolutely are difficulty selectors, just "cryptic" ones. I guess you could think of delver as being like that, just more explicit 14:08:57 <05kate> i don't have strong delver opinions but i do think the fundamental design of it being a non-recommended challenge start is fine, i'm much more into species/backgrounds as difficulty modifiers than i am the idea of explicit difficulty levels 14:09:11 Species are much more so difficulty selectors than classes, but they all do that 14:09:11 <05kate> although certainly they're less clear than "easy/normal/hard" or whatever 14:10:22 yeah, I think my problem with them functioning as difficulty selectors is that they're just not great at communicating their difficulty up-front 14:10:22 <10PleasingFungus> i hope i'm not discouraging you! i think it's a really interesting discussion and some great points you've brought up 14:10:22 the groupings Lasty added are certainly an attempt to do that, but only in part, since I think the prevailiing idea is stil that they're not just about difficulty 14:10:54 <08Lasty> @gammafunk I think my thing here is that I've internalized the idea that backgrounds should only be about changing the player, but not the dungeon, and I need to open up my ideas of what's allowed. In this new mode, we could have challenges where the starting level has more monsters or fixed vaults, where certain gods do / don't appear in the dungeon, where the number of levels is different, etc. 14:11:17 <08Lasty> We could make a speedcrawl background where every branch only has 2 levels. 14:12:00 <08Lasty> Or every level has a few monsters from a much later branch thrown in for variety 14:12:03 <10PleasingFungus> well, one note is that delvers very approximately don't change the dungeon 14:12:21 <10PleasingFungus> they're basically seed stable 14:12:27 <10PleasingFungus> (depending on how you feel about zapping monsters generated in LOS) 14:12:39 <10PleasingFungus> but i certainly like the idea of experimenting with more of dcss's design space 14:13:36 <08nicolae> start on zot:5 having just picked up the orb. you're still level 1. 14:14:04 would be curious to hear why kate thinks the species/class approach is better to modifying difficulty as opposed to having species/classes closer together in difficulty with fewer types of each 14:14:15 obviously you can't make them perfectly balanced relative to each other 14:14:26 Lasty, it occurs to me that AK already breaks your rule 14:14:27 <08Lasty> They don't change the dungeon except the location of the player's start -- this is effectively separating the dungeon entrance / exit and moving one to D:5 14:14:51 <08Lasty> @geekosaur: yep, true, and IIRC there was contention about that years ago 14:15:10 <08Lasty> But you can also leave it instantly if you wish 14:15:22 <05kate> especially on the species side i think the available design space is just a bit more interesting if you accept a wider variation in difficulty 14:16:53 <05kate> i can see the appeal of things like optional modifiers that globally affect difficulty in either direction, i think it's the idea of just having "easy/medium/hard" modes that i particularly dislike 14:17:01 yeah 14:17:07 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, it's very hard to tell what 'easy/medium/hard' even means 14:17:08 <05kate> but a selection of more specific modifiers could be interesting 14:17:16 <10PleasingFungus> and also lots of weird player psychology' 14:17:26 <10PleasingFungus> 'i'm an experienced gamer, i'll play on hard' 14:17:33 <10PleasingFungus> 'i feel bad if i play on easy' 14:17:34 <10PleasingFungus> etc 14:18:25 my "best" model of a system that works well is slay the spire; the 4 characters aren't all perfectly balanced (Watcher > Ironclad > Defect > Silent for difficulty, say, roughly speaking), but the ascension system works great at raising challenge (even if it's perhaps too granular given how it's forced to be linear) 14:18:27 <10PleasingFungus> monster train is one example of a game that has a whole pile of game modifiers to play with (sort of recommended for after you've won the normal game a few times) and some suggested interesting combos 14:18:42 wow, using monster train instead of slay the spire 14:18:49 this is why I don't talk to people who use discord 14:19:06 <10PleasingFungus> i wasn't even thinking about ascensions! agree they're interesting in a different way, though don't think we want dcss to have metaprogression 14:19:16 <08nicolae> i haven't played monster train so i will have to go with the slay the spire analogy 14:19:19 right, not recommending unlocks 14:19:43 <10PleasingFungus> also i think that sts is probably a Better Game (it is the Cadillac of Deckbuilding Roguelikes) but i enjoyed monster train more, and also played it more recently 14:19:47 <05kate> oh i still need to get around to monster train yeah, sts is great 14:19:49 <10PleasingFungus> but that's not important now 14:20:06 I assume monster train is only improving 14:20:32 the gameplay seemed less deep from what sts veterans were telling me, but I'm sure they keep working on it 14:20:52 <10PleasingFungus> probably! the free expansion was fun if not perfectly balanced (getting back to the species/faction as difficulty thing), and i'm excited for the upcoming paid expansion 14:20:54 <05kate> i do wonder how the existing culture of online scored games would work with modifier-based difficulty, seems like there could be some pitfalls there in terms of deciding what counts as a "real" win (and not wanting to discourage eg newer players from turning on difficulty-reducing modifiers just to see more of the game) 14:21:05 yeah, true 14:21:11 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i was thinking a bit about that 14:22:02 adding all that complexity to our already...fraught...online scoring infrastructure 14:22:02 <10PleasingFungus> two vaguely obvious approaches: treat them as different score categories (though that does create an exponential explosion with the existing race/background score categories), or try to adjust the score formula in some way (!) 14:22:29 you play mino? you get bad points. you play cat? you get big points, uwu 14:22:33 <10PleasingFungus> not obvious to me how much score matters to newer players; i do sometimes see people saying things like "i've only gotten as far as having a score of 17,500", which implies they are looking at it 14:23:45 yeah; to some extent showing cheevo banners somewhere nice or in-game could give them a better playfeel than simple score 14:24:47 <10PleasingFungus> sure! 14:30:31 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-722-g2c525c9: Fix death's door message (kate) 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c525c949973 14:30:49 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 15:18:01 <10i-x, purgatory transplant> (sts's ascension system works fine in the abstract but finds it quite awkward how more vaguely obliged one is to do its (mediocre) equivalent of extended, and the higher one goes the more obvious the balance issues are between the characters; monster train's depths are awkward because there's an obvious plan any clan-combo wants to aim for and thus is more micro-focused than 15:18:02 macro-focused, which results in things like secret draw rules or its own covenants system adding more and more starting junk draws to decks) 15:18:26 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-723-g1a5ca91: Fix quiver (gammafunk) 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a5ca91f4e5e 15:18:44 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 15:26:25 <10i-x, purgatory transplant> (neoverse barely cares about there being builds, eden's balance is warped around its speed, ratropolis is too long to make its rapid handchurning reasonable... I guess there's still Nowhere Prophet and Chrono Ark.) 15:28:00 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:28:22 <10PleasingFungus> wait, whoa, someone actually played ratropolis? 16:06:17 anet (L7 HOFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:5) 16:22:03 <05kate> i feel like djinn should probably just either not get an xl1 spell on non-book starts, or always get magic dart probably 16:23:07 <05kate> adding back proper startscumming (outside of wanderer where it's basically just the background design) doesn't seem good 16:25:41 <05kate> it doesn't take long for the xl2 spell to kick in so it's not like you have to wait long for some random fun stuff, but getting rid of all the xl1 randomisation was a pretty big and intentional design thing 16:37:53 <|amethyst> kate-: should Cj/HW get a (fixed) replacement? 16:39:42 i think the best approach would be no spell at xl1 unless you're a background that starts with a book, in which case you get their xl1 spell 17:20:30 <10PleasingFungus> that’s reasonable 17:21:24 <10PleasingFungus> i can do that when i finish lunch 18:34:33 03ebering02 07[i_snecko] * 0.27-a0-691-gb8f8ded: Don't give new Naga Magi Haste Other (i-x) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b8f8dedb6934 18:34:58 Branch pull/1836 updated to be equal with i_snecko: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1836 18:42:50 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering ...nagi? 18:44:01 a group of naga is called a nog 18:54:18 <08nicolae> nagae 18:59:18 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-724-g303ae2d: Nerf dj spellcasting apt to -2 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/303ae2dbc5f9 18:59:36 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:00:57 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-725-g8305433: Remove xl 1 dj spell 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8305433caf0d 19:01:15 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:05:22 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-726-g4dd26fb: Shift dj spells a level later 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4dd26fbaca4a 19:05:39 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:23:24 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-695-gb4952372f7 (34) 19:24:39 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-727-ge3e2c4e: Start Dj with all book spells memorized 10(57 seconds ago, 4 files, 59+ 70-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3e2c4e17360 19:24:57 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:25:58 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-728-g795480f: Rename flat HP mut (ardl) 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/795480f33a52 19:26:16 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:27:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-729-gd91702f: Mark flight potions useless (lici) 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d91702f0e3f2 19:28:00 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:29:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-730-g1642768: Remove dj stop flying ability (Lici) 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/164276804b06 19:30:00 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:32:16 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-731-g1cc2dcd: Don't claim that veh restores dj mp (ardl?) 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1cc2dcd456df 19:32:34 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:44:50 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-732-g95cc87f: Give Dj spell generation a subgenerator 10(39 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95cc87f0d0d4 19:45:08 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 19:48:40 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-733-g27149d5: Disable casting spells at XL < spell level 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/27149d5c6a97 19:48:58 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 20:10:11 03PleasingFungus02 07[a_bad_day_for_obs] * 0.27-a0-698-ga572aaf: Remove hobgoblin weapons, buff base damage (hellmonk) 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a572aaf4d4f3 20:10:41 Branch pull/1841 updated to be equal with a_bad_day_for_obs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1841 20:11:13 Branch master updated to be equal with a_bad_day_for_obs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master 20:17:42 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-698-ga572aaf4d4 (34) 20:27:13 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-699-gfe1b84c: Remove leopard geckos 10(3 minutes ago, 15 files, 33+ 49-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fe1b84c61a9f 20:34:18 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-700-g26b8c83: Unleash the python (hellmonk) 10(76 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26b8c838cbc5 20:47:15 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-699-gfe1b84c61a (34) 21:02:09 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-700-g26b8c838cb (34) 21:35:16 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-701-gc204baa: Fix display of stat rings on known items screen (particleface) 10(81 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c204baa176c8 21:35:16 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-702-g0b40708: Staticify some functions 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b40708614ad 21:47:34 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-702-g0b40708614 (34) 21:52:34 <05kate> hmm, i crashed djinn by cursing an item under ash 21:54:09 <10PleasingFungus> lol 21:54:19 <10PleasingFungus> i forgot ash existed 21:54:26 <10PleasingFungus> bet you cursed an inappropriate skill 21:55:53 <05kate> it was evo/self so should've worked i think? ash seemed like a good choice for being able to just load up on useful curses really easily 21:56:54 <10PleasingFungus> hrm 21:56:58 <05kate> it seems to only offer appropriate curses in local testing, the crash is in calc_mp 21:57:16 <10PleasingFungus> let me check... 21:57:35 <10PleasingFungus> ah 21:57:36 <10PleasingFungus> %git b4952372f70c6b6b835d9935811414fe096acf5e 21:57:36 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.27-a0-695-gb495237: Avoid a divide by zero (21 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b4952372f70c 21:57:39 <10PleasingFungus> this isn't in smokeless 21:57:42 <10PleasingFungus> time to rebase probably 21:58:00 <05kate> aha that'd be it, yeah 21:58:03 <10PleasingFungus> nice 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-701-g59fc59c: WIP djinni 10(10 days ago, 6 files, 55+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59fc59c459af 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-702-g700d632: Add Dj float mut 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/700d632cbe11 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-703-gf779c56: More Dj muts 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 47+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f779c564ae73 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-704-g939df92: Djinni sprites 10(2 days ago, 5 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/939df927c7ca 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-705-g16dcfbe: Pay HP instead of MP 10(34 hours ago, 20 files, 214+ 64-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16dcfbef0c39 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-706-g05ed358: Refactor skill sacs 10(33 hours ago, 1 file, 29+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05ed358a5c6d 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-707-gebbed5f: Refactor Ru skill sacs (untested) 10(32 hours ago, 5 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ebbed5ffc980 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-708-gc1a726a: Mark amnesia useless for dj 10(32 hours ago, 2 files, 18+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c1a726a51951 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-709-g39941fa: Disable Sif's amnesia for dj 10(32 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39941fa9a595 21:58:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[smokeless] * 0.27-a0-710-g9383b62: Disable Veh gifts for dj 10(32 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9383b62639e3 21:58:41 ... and 29 more commits 21:58:59 Branch pull/1840 updated to be equal with smokeless: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1840 21:59:15 <10PleasingFungus> if i were virtuous i'd squash some commits at this point 22:48:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-703-gec79a4c: Make oozes freeze (hellmonk) 10(2 days ago, 5 files, 17+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec79a4c0d2fc 22:54:29 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-704-gc0f43fc: Unleash a yak attack (Sastrei) 10(35 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0f43fc05a81 23:02:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-704-gc0f43fc05a (34) 23:03:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-705-ga001394: Lighten yaks up a bit (hellmonk) 10(19 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0013940fb92 23:16:47 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-705-ga0013940fb (34)