00:37:00 -!- ebering_ is now known as ebering 01:20:53 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3968-g16565f3459 01:34:42 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-590-g94244163b4 (34) 01:51:59 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-591-gb9b556f: Add transparency/opacity information to poisonous_passages 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9b556f605b0 01:54:42 <09gammafunk> @nicolae yeah, the only way you can do what you ask right now is to know the cumulative count of D+E+F glyphs ahead of time so you can do eg NSUBST: DEF = N=. where N is that count 01:55:12 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-592-g0306a34: Clarify acrobat description 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0306a34022ff 01:56:03 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-590-g94244163b4 01:58:18 <09gammafunk> But if you’ve done prior randomization of D E or F then even that is not possible 01:58:55 <09gammafunk> I wonder if there’s a way to do it with combination or current logic though 02:01:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-592-g0306a34022 (34) 02:46:17 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-592-g0306a34022 (34) 02:46:58 <12ebering> Sick! 02:53:56 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-592-g0306a34022 03:08:52 -!- root is now known as Guest72605 03:31:13 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3968-g16565f3459 03:46:58 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-165-g80b52de393 06:23:36 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:55:28 <08Lasty> I see that while I was gone, y'all responded to the general distaste for Harm by adding it to more things. I love you all so much, and also this cloak of Harm I'm using is great. 08:56:54 <08Lasty> (or did people come to love Harm like I do?) 08:58:46 There are some big harm proponents out there 08:59:02 probably mostly people who like ranged attacks of some kind 09:33:58 03Skrybe02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-593-g27d4507: Update trove.des 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/27d45072b4d8 09:36:12 <12ebering> I like harm 09:37:02 <08nicolae> "proponent of harm" sounds like the name of a metal album from the 80s 09:39:02 or even more recently, for that matter 09:46:51 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-593-g27d45072b4 (34) 10:25:22 03kippig02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-594-g2aaa8db: This vault was designed when spiders could cling to walls, updated it so the monsters at the back are more than pincushions 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2aaa8dbbc2e2 10:31:35 New branch created: pull/1820 (1825 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 10:33:43 03gammafunk02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-1-g8421e6d: Update ballistomycete descriptions (kitchen-ace) 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 2 files, 11+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8421e6d06bd6 10:33:43 03kitchen-ace02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-2-g60987f9: Fix showing regen amulets as useless for Vampires 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/60987f991d38 10:33:43 03kitchen-ace02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-3-gfb01ec5: Show that bloodless vampires' bite can heal 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb01ec503c6a 10:33:43 03Aidan Holm02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-4-gcaac7ac: Fix abyss-gen level excursion milestones (kitchen_ace, 12078) 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/caac7acfae3e 10:33:43 03kitchen-ace02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-5-g3faab67: Don't stop travel for changes from (un)melding 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 3 files, 23+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3faab67891fa 10:33:43 03mwvdev02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-6-gffcf5fe: Fix manual typos 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ffcf5fe11393 10:33:43 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-7-ga05ef93: Fix seed selection on webtiles 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a05ef93d1c62 10:33:43 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-8-g42a7a38: Fix the build on non-webtiles (aidanh) 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/42a7a381cca2 10:33:43 03Aidan Holm02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-9-g656096a: rltiles: Allow referencing generated images by enum 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 2 files, 20+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/656096ae3ffa 10:33:43 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {advil} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820 * 0.24-b1-10-g47935d7: Refactor the processing of species/job tiles 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 139+ 135-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47935d78e524 10:33:43 ... and 1815 more commits 10:34:00 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-594-g2aaa8dbbc2 (34) 10:34:23 uh 10:34:36 <12ebering> a misaimed pr 10:34:57 always fun to get an accidental kimchi pull I guess 10:56:04 <12ebering> yep 11:08:54 <10PleasingFungus> aw, i want to know what a magicgolem is now 11:09:17 <10PleasingFungus> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1820/commits/abd093c4f79a5d721b3975f07e6e62d5ed290575 heat gauge! 12:06:01 <08nicolae> having skimmed the commits for five seconds i am going to assume it is a combination of djinn and lava orc 12:09:03 <12ebering> so would that be a lava djinn or a djinn orc or?? 12:09:23 <08nicolae> it would be a djorc 12:28:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-594-g2aaa8db (34) 13:11:09 <08Lasty> djorc provided music at my wedding 13:11:39 <12ebering> Lasty appearing reminds me of the promised write-ups of thoughts I've got out 13:11:47 <12ebering> Ranged, mutations, hells 13:11:57 <08Lasty> :interested: 13:12:03 <08nicolae> go on 13:12:43 <12ebering> well I put the hells one in the rl discord, and it's the one I'm currently thinking about working on, so I'll paste it here 13:12:56 <12ebering> 1. shrink levels 1-6 by 50% in each dimension, for 1/4 the area 2. lots of ambush (more deeper) and guarded downstair vaults (more shallower) 3. branch wide persistent hell effects giving each a distinct "conduct" (Geh: -Scroll, Coc: - Potion, Dis: Corr (-nnn) (12? 16?), Tar: TBD (too evil: Silence; Drain?; -Courage yer all ru now (doubles the ru effect for sacrificers); -potion heal; 13:12:57 -regen) 4. timed hell effects more focused and flavoured, more evil, less often 5. trim all trash mobs from the monster list, again make them more targeted/thematic. 13:13:18 <12ebering> 3 is proving problematic 13:13:41 <12ebering> not gameplay problematic but crawlcode problematic 13:13:49 <08nicolae> i was going to suggest darkness for tartarus but that'd be a buff since los is symmetric usually 13:14:20 <08Lasty> Really evil: perpetually marked 13:15:32 <12ebering> well that brings me to the technical problem: all of these things are durations (DUR_foo) in crawlcode, and durations don't like non-duration additions to them 13:15:44 <12ebering> I guess can_drink exists for DUR_NO_POTION and also lich form 13:16:02 <08Lasty> How is -tele implemented in Zot? 13:16:58 <12ebering> orb_delays_translocation() in orb.cc 13:16:58 <08Lasty> I suppose you could refactor these effects to checks that are true if you have the DUR or if you are in the branch 13:17:20 <12ebering> yeah, I guess its mostly the status light stuff that's mildly painful but maybe not so bad now that I think about it a bit more 13:18:55 <08Lasty> Alternately, you could make these effects applied each turn for the duration of the turn while in branch, and put a flag on that silences the application message. 13:19:51 <06advil> underused mechanic: entering a hell branch starts a new chapter that only ends when you get the corresponding rune or start the orbrun chapter 13:19:59 <08Lasty> Or you could go crazy and implement some kind of "branch DUR" that gets layered on your DURs each turn 13:20:28 <06advil> (or I guess enter a different hell branch) 13:20:36 <08Lasty> or let them stack :p 13:21:04 <08Lasty> New conduct: enter all 4 hells and get all 4 chapter effects at once before claiming any hell runes 😄 13:21:09 <06advil> heh 13:21:22 <06advil> the chapter mechanic as it is wouldn't really do that tho 13:21:42 <08Lasty> Fair enough. I haven't looked into that code at all. 13:21:54 <12ebering> looking at it more: the only real issue is the status code 13:22:48 <06advil> you're always in one chapter...was really just brainstorming about duration-ish mechanics 13:22:48 <08nicolae> what is a chapter 13:22:57 <12ebering> moving DUR_NO_SCROLLS to be encapsulated behind player::can_read(bool temp) is no problem, ditto DUR_CORROSION and corrosion stack checks; and potions already have can_drink 13:38:38 <06advil> there are four: AK pre-game, the regular game, angered pandemonium but not holding the orb, and escaping with the orb 13:38:59 <08nicolae> how do you anger pandemonium? just show up? 13:40:16 <08nicolae> (you can tell how often i make it to pandemonium in a regular game) 13:41:39 <06advil> apport the orb I think 13:41:47 <08nicolae> lol 13:41:47 <05kate> for hells i do like shrinking the level area rather than cutting the quantity, i think the dive is a good part of them. might mean it's worth having just two or even one staircase per floor, too? 13:41:51 <06advil> not really sure why that was implemented as a chapter 13:42:00 <08nicolae> "hey, hey, HEY! I SAID NO TOUCHING!" 13:42:35 <08nicolae> "MNOLEG GET THE PANDEMOTORCYCLES WE'RE RIDING OUT" 13:46:07 <09gammafunk> yeah, it could be interesting to focus on improving the hell dive challenge a bit 13:46:16 <09gammafunk> certainly cutting out a lot of chaff monsters would help right off the bat 13:46:53 <09gammafunk> possibly you could get creative on the nature of the "challenge" you faced, as well 13:47:07 <09gammafunk> special stair vaults one needed to fight through to get to the stairs 13:48:29 <12ebering> Turns out, hell lists are mostly chaff 13:48:40 <09gammafunk> or a "hell quest" system where you have to guide an allied hell hound to safety, I know kate would be down for a quest system 13:49:22 <09gammafunk> yeah, part of the basic problem is that so many monsters available to use at all are chaff to players by that point 13:49:34 <09gammafunk> but perhaps the other aspects discussed will render that less the case 13:52:39 <12ebering> https://gist.github.com/ebering/b5bc9ebc98f4ef81b9a4023da50cbe8e 13:52:45 <12ebering> ignore the weights and depths for now 13:52:51 <12ebering> this was with... somewhat generous scissors 13:53:03 <12ebering> and a few insertions 13:54:09 <09gammafunk> I recommend querying current scissors 13:54:44 <09gammafunk> yeah, those lists are pretty short 13:54:52 <12ebering> so I think I might first implement the branch effects and level scaling; I don't have a 100% good idea of what the monster lists should look like 13:54:59 <12ebering> perhaps we'll need.... new monsters?! 13:55:30 <12ebering> but a link between these branch conducts and the monsters is a good starting point: make the monsters make the conduct felt 13:56:38 <12ebering> but this is kind of hard 13:57:43 <09gammafunk> yeah, a bit difficult to establish a monster link to -Potions 13:57:50 <09gammafunk> The conducts might just be good as a kind of semi-flavorful generic test 13:57:58 <09gammafunk> rather than a connection to monsters in any explicit way 13:59:04 <09gammafunk> there's the old trick of "making FOO damage type do 2x in this place" 13:59:16 <09gammafunk> or inducing effect X 13:59:44 <09gammafunk> these are hard to get right in many cases since it can easilly force players to always use ranged 14:00:34 <09gammafunk> I wonder if something as extreme as perma-slow would be good 14:00:41 <09gammafunk> e.g. cocytus 14:00:48 <09gammafunk> instead of -potions necessarilly 14:01:19 <09gammafunk> makes me think it might have a bit of nice synergy with periodic -potions as you couldn't use haste pots at that point 14:02:36 <09gammafunk> but perma slow is easier to play off of monster-wise 14:16:15 <10PleasingFungus> %git a8e5aaf0bc9397333ac1cb90a4c82246d9e45b64 14:16:16 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.16-a0-1309-ga8e5aaf: Freeze Cocytus solid (6 years ago, 7 files, 55+ 2-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8e5aaf0bc93 14:16:21 <10PleasingFungus> %git aec2d587ec73782f649df038b2cd2a1c09e9328f 14:16:21 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.16-a0-1312-gaec2d58: Revert "Freeze Cocytus solid" (6 years ago, 7 files, 2+ 55-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aec2d587ec73 14:16:26 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering 14:16:36 <10PleasingFungus> perhaps dreams can come true...................... 14:17:20 <10PleasingFungus> suspect this code isn't even that stale 14:18:09 <10PleasingFungus> also i approve of new monsters, ofc 14:19:00 <08nicolae> Vault Summoner, have a special subclass of minivaults and the vault summoner will put one around itself every so often 14:19:31 <08nicolae> perhaps even a unique vault summoner, named Nico-- 14:21:13 I certainly wouldn't use the sniper rifle myself 14:21:19 no way I'm touching ranged combat, it's shameful 14:21:34 ??cao 14:21:35 cao[1/3]: Crawl server, located in Phoenix, AZ. USA, http://crawl.akrasiac.org/ or crawl.akrasiac.org ssh port 22 ssh-username:joshua ssh-password: joshua. Runs the latest stable release, trunk, and robotfindskitten. Further information on the website and ??putty entries for Windows users. Also see http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 14:21:37 ??cao[2 14:21:37 cao[2/3]: Webtiles is at http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/. 14:21:39 ??cao[3 14:21:39 cao[3/3]: Owned by rax, but johnstein and |amethyst are also admins, and please contact one of them first if there's a server problem. 14:25:08 advil: looks like CAO disk is full again, are you able to fix that? 14:25:40 railbird80: we're already aware of the CAO issue; it's out of disk space 14:26:50 not sure how advil usually handles full CAO disk, so I don't want to touch that myself 14:27:02 okay, so no resolution for the time being then? Just log off and wait is my best move if I want the game recorded? 14:28:39 yeah, you'll need to wait until we free up some disk space 14:28:57 your game will just crash (probably) when it tries to save, even if you can get it to load 14:29:07 Okay, thank you for your response. 14:29:55 Webtiles server stopped. 14:31:19 nice, think advil is working on it 14:31:26 !learn set cao[1] Crawl server, located in Phoenix, AZ. USA. WebTiles: http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/ SSH: crawl.akrasiac.org port 22, username:joshua, and either password: joshua or the CAO key. See {console} for details on the key and connecting. Owned by rax, but contact admins advil, |amethyst, or gammafunk in irc or Discord for assistance. 14:31:27 cao[1/3]: Crawl server, located in Phoenix, AZ. USA. WebTiles: http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/ SSH: crawl.akrasiac.org port 22, username:joshua, and either password: joshua or the CAO key. See {console} for details on the key and connecting. Owned by rax, but contact admins advil, |amethyst, or gammafunk in irc or Discord for assistance. 14:31:33 !learn del cao[2 14:31:33 Deleted cao[2/3]: Webtiles is at http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/. 14:31:35 !learn del cao[3 14:31:35 cao has only 2 entries. 14:31:37 !learn del cao[2 14:31:37 Deleted cao[2/2]: Owned by rax, but johnstein and |amethyst are also admins, and please contact one of them first if there's a server problem. 14:32:37 I guess johnstein is still an admin, but not sure he's doing much cao admin these days? 14:32:37 someone can let me know if he should still be listed 14:36:05 emf (L16 DEFE) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (Lair:6) 14:36:12 Blackmore (L11 MiAK) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (Orc:1) 14:36:12 Luterac (L3 DECj) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:1) 14:36:12 Playings (L27 FeWz) (Pan) 14:44:16 -!- johnnyzero is now known as johnny0 14:58:04 Webtiles server started. 14:59:12 ok, cleared about 9GB by removing cores, force-upgrading oldest games, cleaning trunks, and stripping binaries 14:59:24 getting to the point of diminishing returns on this stuff though 15:04:31 there's a weird bug in savegame-transfer where it messes up the savegames for any game at a commit hash beginning with 5, has anyone encountered this? 15:05:09 heh 15:05:48 advil: any near term plan on freeing up more space for CAO? do we just have to try deleting ttyrecs at some point? 15:05:59 deleting or moving probably 15:06:19 I've had some moving plans off and on but tbh I just haven't wanted to deal with it 15:11:14 <06advil> strip-save-uid-extension() { sed 's/-'${USER_ID}'//g;s/\.$sav\|chr\|cs$//g;' } 15:11:21 <06advil> guess what USER_ID is 15:12:16 <06advil> does anyone know what this is even doing? 15:13:20 <06advil> saves are just the player name afaict 15:17:24 <06advil> I'm guessing that at some point in the distant past they did have the uid on the filename for some reason, and that I can safely remove that 15:18:03 <06advil> though the bug is also that that is being run on the full path 15:26:02 hah 15:27:44 crawlcode extends even into the shell scripts 16:16:11 -!- Vaevictu1 is now known as Vaevictus 17:39:19 <02|amethyst> nice... 17:40:12 <02|amethyst> Oh, since I was talking about testing in class today, I got to tell the story of meleebug 17:40:44 <02|amethyst> also the various orc follower off-level recall bugs that took, what, three years to be fixed? 18:23:08 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-594-g2aaa8dbbc2 (34) 18:31:34 <08Lasty> What's the player reaction to more data about monsters and combat displayed in-game? Genuine question: has it had any impact on winrates 18:37:24 <10PleasingFungus> players are happy 18:37:42 <10PleasingFungus> hard to distinguish effects on winrate from concurrent mechanical changes and increasing player experience 18:41:32 <02|amethyst> I wouldn't expect to see much of a change, because I suspect the majority of people who both a) play online and b) would carefully read description screens also are able to look things up in the wiki or elsewhere 18:42:13 <02|amethyst> (though, to be fair, looking things up online has a chance to give wrong information) 18:43:28 <02|amethyst> not to say it's not important, because convenience and up-to-date-ness are important goals 18:45:01 <10PleasingFungus> tbf, % hit chances can’t be trivially looked up 18:45:37 <02|amethyst> true 18:59:30 -!- werekitten is now known as misha 19:26:26 <08Lasty> Does that mean that player winrate has been changing? 19:28:34 <10PleasingFungus> !lg * /won s=cv o=cv -graph 19:28:38 <04Cerebot> 118683/12843520 games for *: https://betelgeuse.shalott.org/graphs/789fea7a80a582b2db05e26de5c20ba7ef09a25a.html 19:29:47 <10PleasingFungus> people have suggested that 0.27 should be the version of vicious player nerfs 19:29:47 <10PleasingFungus> hard to say 19:32:47 <08Lasty> I'll say that the current crop of evokables seem absolutely bonkers, but maybe I'm forgetting how good they were before 19:33:24 !lg * 0.15|0.16|0.17|0.18|0.19|0.20|0.21|0.22|0.23|0.24|0.25|0.26 s=cv o=-. / won 19:33:28 39152/3873525 games for * (0.15 || 0.16 || 0.17 || 0.18 || 0.19 || 0.20 || 0.21 || 0.22 || 0.23 || 0.24 || 0.25 || 0.26): 1922/225964x 0.15 [0.85%], 3099/277470x 0.16 [1.12%], 2911/329304x 0.17 [0.88%], 2585/307056x 0.18 [0.84%], 2834/356009x 0.19 [0.80%], 3369/370921x 0.20 [0.91%], 3865/437481x 0.21 [0.88%], 4190/335104x 0.22 [1.25%], 4302/455922x 0.23 [0.94%], 4677/358024x 0.24 [1.31%], 3324/294... 19:33:36 maybe easier to read 19:33:56 there was a bit of a jump around 0.22 that wasn't ever explained, but seems stable-ish 19:34:18 <10PleasingFungus> they're pretty bonkers yes, imo 19:34:21 if you do that in pm you'll see that 0.26 seems high but that's just because the average is still dominated by t 19:34:32 <10PleasingFungus> i'm unhappy with it but other people do seem happy, so idk 19:35:36 <02|amethyst> hm, maybe with the discord bridge existing, that separator should be something other than || 19:38:23 <10PleasingFungus> perhaps! 19:38:28 <10PleasingFungus> it is funny though 19:38:47 <10PleasingFungus> !lg * 0.15|0.16|0.17|0.18|0.19|0.20|0.21|0.22|0.23|0.24|0.25|0.26 s=cv o=-. / won -notitle 19:38:48 <04Cerebot> Unknown option: notitle 19:38:53 <10PleasingFungus> i get that one wrong every time 19:39:23 <10PleasingFungus> !lg * 0.15|0.16|0.17|0.18|0.19|0.20|0.21|0.22|0.23|0.24|0.25|0.26 s=cv o=-. / won notitle 19:39:28 <04Cerebot> 1922/225964x 0.15 [0.85%], 3099/277470x 0.16 [1.12%], 2911/329304x 0.17 [0.88%], 2585/307056x 0.18 [0.84%], 2834/356009x 0.19 [0.80%], 3369/370921x 0.20 [0.91%], 3865/437481x 0.21 [0.88%], 4190/335104x 0.22 [1.25%], 4302/455922x 0.23 [0.94%], 4677/358024x 0.24 [1.31%], 3324/294544x 0.25 [1.13%], 2074/125733x 0.26 [1.65%] 19:39:39 <10PleasingFungus> !lg * !t 0.15|0.16|0.17|0.18|0.19|0.20|0.21|0.22|0.23|0.24|0.25|0.26 s=cv o=-. / won notitle 19:39:44 <04Cerebot> 1922/225964x 0.15 [0.85%], 3099/277470x 0.16 [1.12%], 2911/329304x 0.17 [0.88%], 2585/307056x 0.18 [0.84%], 2834/356009x 0.19 [0.80%], 3369/370921x 0.20 [0.91%], 3865/437481x 0.21 [0.88%], 4190/335104x 0.22 [1.25%], 4302/455922x 0.23 [0.94%], 4677/358024x 0.24 [1.31%], 3324/294544x 0.25 [1.13%], 674/74714x 0.26 [0.90%] 19:40:04 <10PleasingFungus> that's misleading because it doesn't exclude t0.25 etc 19:40:07 <10PleasingFungus> but closer? 19:51:53 <08Lasty> if that's right, what happened in 0.24? 19:52:04 <08Lasty> 0.25 also looks high 20:03:50 what I meant is that it was stable after whatever happened in 0.22 20:04:46 0.23 was a bit lower I guess, but if you look at tournament winrates (maybe more reliable to just look at those, rather than try to look at everything else) it's comparable 20:05:35 around 0.22 I spent some time trying to figure out if there was an identifiable cause to the winrate increase, but I did not find anything at all 20:08:43 oh, that's not true, I apparently had a theory that it was mostly due to ghost vaults 20:09:42 I think I'm thinking of 0.20 where if you go by t there was also an apparent increase and I couldn't figure anything out 20:10:33 !lg * !won t0.21 / ckiller=a_player_ghost 20:10:39 !lg * !won t0.22 / ckiller=a_player_ghost 20:10:44 3244/81828 games for * (!won t0.21): N=3244/81828 (3.96%) 20:10:54 404/79214 games for * (!won t0.22): N=404/79214 (0.51%) 20:12:59 <08Lasty> Ah, that's an interesting thought. Ghosts certainly could be deadly, tho only rarely for prepared players who were likely to win. 20:13:10 <08Lasty> !lg * !won t0.21 greaterplayer / ckiller=a_player_ghost 20:13:11 <04Cerebot> No keyword 'greaterplayer' 20:13:21 <08Lasty> !lg greaterplayers !won t0.21 / ckiller=a_player_ghost 20:13:37 <08Lasty> !lg greaterplayers !won t0.22 / ckiller=a_player_ghost 20:13:47 <04Cerebot> 146/4710 games for greaterplayers (!won t0.21): N=146/4710 (3.10%) 20:13:49 yes, many chars that would have died to ghosts if there were ghosts might still have died to other things 20:13:52 hard to test 20:14:08 *if there were free roaming ghosts 20:14:11 <04Cerebot> 12/5871 games for greaterplayers (!won t0.22): N=12/5871 (0.20%) 20:14:38 heh that's still a big proportional difference 20:14:44 <08Lasty> heh, the effect size is even bigger for greaterplayers. Now I'm starting to think it could be the cause. 20:30:57 !next 20:30:59 Subcommand $(!lg * playable (VS|Na|Og|DE|Te|Ha|Gh|Ko) s=char / won @Lasty fmt:"${.}" join:" " ?:N=0) failed: DE is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use DE-- (Deep Elf) or --DE (Delver) to disambiguate in $(split $(!lg * playable $... in $(nth $(rand $(length ${xs})... in $(randnth $(split $(!lg * ... in $(rand_unwon ${p} $(try $(en... in $(ldb-set! ${term} ${index} ... in $(if $(= $(ldb-siz... 20:41:56 <08Lasty> When did ring +s get standardized? 20:57:08 %git 2607d5cfa1d3 20:57:08 07RojjaCebolla02 {ebering} * 0.25-a0-1071-g2607d5c: Simplify ring plusses 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2607d5cfa1d3 21:20:23 are vp supposed to be unbreathing while alive? not sure if that's something I've accidentally caused 21:27:26 also wonder if Vp could have some more progression, it's a bit lopsided with batform at xl 3 and otherwise everything there from the start 21:33:58 Prakerore (L22 FoAr) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Vaults:4) 21:36:31 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 21:47:35 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-595-g6a3fe64: Generalize a ghoul check 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6a3fe64ed669 21:47:35 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-596-g70eae99: Clean up some vampire checks 10(88 minutes ago, 3 files, 26+ 54-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/70eae9909291 21:47:35 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-597-g524d869: Refactor vampirism as a mutation 10(7 minutes ago, 17 files, 81+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/524d869a0fcd 21:50:11 <10PleasingFungus> vaguely want to merge vp with gh 21:50:15 <10PleasingFungus> haven't thought it out that far tho 21:50:24 <10PleasingFungus> also really like the phrase "refactor vampirism as a mutation" 21:50:27 <10PleasingFungus> that is an Aesthetic 21:56:37 <09gammafunk> it makes you want to query the current scissors 21:57:18 <10PleasingFungus> the current... scissors...? 21:57:30 <09gammafunk> !gitgrep 1 current scissors 21:57:32 <04Cerebot> Could not find commit HEAD^{/current scissors} (git returned 128) 21:58:04 <09gammafunk> %git 3da5d4e088fbd54146bd7e5ed90dbafaddf0d5f0 21:58:04 <04Cerebot> Aidan Holm * 0.24-a0-625-g3da5d4e: Allow querying current scissor without UI layout (1 year, 6 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3da5d4e088fb 21:58:17 <10PleasingFungus> huh 21:58:23 <10PleasingFungus> the more you know 22:08:19 <08nicolae> ☄️ 22:17:31 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-597-g524d869a0f (34) 22:42:57 <08nicolae> thinking about lair ending vaults. how big of a hydra is too big for lair, do you think 23:00:18 <10PleasingFungus> depends on context? 23:00:59 <09gammafunk> @nicolae check out gammafunk_ghost_hydra_chop in dat/des/variable/ghost.des 23:01:36 <09gammafunk> But yeah context of the rest of the vault would help 23:04:17 <08nicolae> oh i don't have a context fleshed out yet, i was trying to think of lair endings with monster arrangements that hadn't been used yet and i figured "a few hydras but with way more heads than usual" might work, surrounded with some other monsters in some theme i haven't settled on (there's already a lair ending with a lizard focus) 23:05:20 <10PleasingFungus> seems reasonable, just gotta have a non swampy monster set 23:06:29 <08nicolae> electric eels, raiju, spark wasps, call it hydra_electric 23:07:24 <09gammafunk> It’s like they always say 23:08:19 <08nicolae> the wait for this punchline is killing me 23:09:45 <10PleasingFungus> i love and hate that name 23:09:45 <08nicolae> yeah i was goofing but it's growing on me 23:10:11 <08nicolae> is there some way to define an electric hydra with vault syntax, 23:10:26 <10PleasingFungus> you could give it a spell, but you shouldn't 23:10:51 <10PleasingFungus> simply make a new unique hydra that breathes zap with every head 23:11:07 <09gammafunk> A lizard’s gizzard beats a wizard’s blizzard but a hydra might a beat a deep elf fighta 23:11:20 <08nicolae> i have never heard anyone say that 23:11:20 <10PleasingFungus> hm. 23:11:23 <10PleasingFungus> until now? 23:11:33 <08nicolae> i blinked so not even then 23:11:37 <09gammafunk> Say it all the time. 23:11:45 <09gammafunk> All the time. 23:11:56 <08nicolae> well, all right 23:13:13 <09gammafunk> Funny vault names are good but players don’t see those and you have to let them in on the joke 23:13:21 <08nicolae> my other idea i'm bouncing around is a bunch of undead of the various varieties (zombie, skellington, spectral, and one or two simulacrum) of lair monsters whose main threat is their melee attacks, possibly an elephant_graveyard or perhaps a pet_sematary if elephants-only is boring 23:13:49 <10PleasingFungus> i thought there was an elephant graveyard somewhere 23:13:58 <09gammafunk> Undead lair ending is surprisingly not covered 23:14:07 <08nicolae> i think there's the one where the statues come to life but i can't remember if there's like a non-ending vault that's undeads 23:14:09 <09gammafunk> Yeah a float vault 23:14:36 <09gammafunk> No undead lair end as of yet 23:15:35 <08nicolae> nice 23:15:36 <08nicolae> maybe throw in a few living monsters, to keep things varied (you interrupted the funeral, jerk) 23:16:22 <08nicolae> although i might only bother with that if i stick with the mainly-elephants theme 23:18:09 <09gammafunk> Ofc undead theme kind of well-trodden theme 23:18:18 <08nicolae> maybe i could combine my two ideas, one or two hydras with 10-12 heads and then their retinue of varieties of undead hydras 23:18:25 <08nicolae> the classics are classics for a reason 23:18:49 <09gammafunk> Yeah I don’t know that extra heads fits that theme 23:19:36 <08nicolae> yeah, i guess the theme there is just "hope ya like hydras! even dead ones!" 23:19:38 <08nicolae> eh, i'll sleep on it 23:21:24 <09gammafunk> @nicolae maybe see if there’s a good beastly later undead you could use as boss 23:21:24 <09gammafunk> Ghoul maybe 23:21:24 <08nicolae> 🤔 23:21:24 <09gammafunk> Or somewhat exotic undead beasts 23:21:43 <09gammafunk> Derived undead that is 23:22:07 <08nicolae> yeah, although you can't get too weird with the exoticness there because the derived undeads don't do all the fun stuff 23:22:35 <09gammafunk> Well spectrals 23:22:39 <08nicolae> maybe a vampire chilling with some Children of the Night (wolves, bats, rats, so forth) 23:22:44 <09gammafunk> And simulacra 23:22:58 <08nicolae> i didn't think think the spectrals and simulacrum got to, say, blinkbolt or petrifying breath 23:23:21 <09gammafunk> No but the beasts will be scary 23:23:34 <08nicolae> true 23:23:39 <09gammafunk> Shrike skeleton 23:24:03 <08nicolae> oooh 23:24:04 <09gammafunk> Just some ideas 23:24:29 <09gammafunk> Af_drain af_cold good gimmicks 23:24:40 <08nicolae> agreedo 23:24:52 <09gammafunk> Or yeah just skele of uber beast 23:25:33 <09gammafunk> Sadly doom hound too insane 23:26:02 <09gammafunk> For actual monster undead 23:27:13 <09gammafunk> Ghoul might be a bit much even 23:27:13 <09gammafunk> *??ghoul 23:27:13 <04Cerebot> ghoul (n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 118-180 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 30, 30 | undead, doors, evil, unbreathing | Res: will(80), cold, poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy | Corpse | XP: 1547 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 23:27:13 <09gammafunk> *??dire elephant 23:27:13 <04Cerebot> dire elephant (Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 90-138 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 40(trample), 15 | Res: will(100) | Corpse | XP: 1242 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 23:27:51 <09gammafunk> Ghoul hp maybe just a bit much, but obv you only place one 23:29:58 <08nicolae> obviously 23:33:03 <09gammafunk> @nicolae another obvious boss is a couple necromancers 23:33:12 <08nicolae> true 23:33:15 <09gammafunk> They have bind soul 23:33:32 <08nicolae> always nice 23:34:16 <09gammafunk> Have to place them with live critters 23:34:41 <09gammafunk> I use death yaks or elephants in gauntlet 23:34:54 <09gammafunk> But anything goes 23:35:01 <08nicolae> yeah, you'd want stuff that would make scary simulacra 23:50:30 <08nicolae> lost souls would not be appropriate for lair no matter how many undead things there were, yes? 23:50:56 <10PleasingFungus> why not? 23:52:49 <08nicolae> i figured they would mostly be a crypt thing 23:52:52 <08nicolae> but... 23:53:07 <08nicolae> hmmmmm... 23:54:01 <08nicolae> necromancer + lost souls = they just keep coming back for more