00:08:39 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 00:46:05 <10PleasingFungus> just want to do some resprites 00:46:11 <10PleasingFungus> then i'm personally fine to merge 00:48:08 <12ebering> Very sad if beastmasters spawn without their bands; is there a way to force bands in the spawn tables? 00:48:56 <10PleasingFungus> i don't think it's a spawn table thing 00:49:00 <10PleasingFungus> it's just the way that vaults work 00:49:19 <10PleasingFungus> they can request that monsters appear bandless, and possibly they'll just place monsters bandless by default? i forget 01:05:26 <12ebering> mmm 01:06:32 <10PleasingFungus> you could try to add a very special case for beastmasters, but that might have other weird effects 01:06:37 <10PleasingFungus> let me think about the other thing 01:07:01 <10PleasingFungus> ah, yeah, i can fix this up 01:07:16 <10PleasingFungus> ok, if you wanted to see a single monster in a vault, would you rather see one lindwurm or one dire elephant 01:23:06 <10PleasingFungus> oh, it has to be both. that's fine 01:23:09 <10PleasingFungus> i'll fix it tomorrow 01:46:09 -!- Psymania_ is now known as Psymania 01:48:58 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:33:29 03Implojin02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-578-gffa14ba: Replace a magic number in spl-cast.cc 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ffa14badcf9d 02:33:29 03Implojin02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-579-g6b246bc: Document a clua TODO 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b246bc23496 02:46:30 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-577-ge2a43ba0c9 (34) 02:46:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-579-g6b246bc234 (34) 03:30:48 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3968-g16565f3459 03:32:29 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-580-ga093fd0: Really don't print a resist message when the player casts fridge 10(53 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a093fd074c81 03:32:29 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-581-g3872a02: Remove the holy word effect from Sanctuary 10(52 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3872a0250364 03:32:29 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-582-g4fbd9c9: Don't skip inventory items with Ashenzari pack-id 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4fbd9c9eec9d 03:36:04 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-164-g9ecd17fd62 05:49:03 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:02:05 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-582-g4fbd9c9eec (34) 06:44:47 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1811 * 0.27-a0-565-g3ca0be2: Update Elf Vault 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 75+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ca0be2a6cf9 06:56:25 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1811 * 0.27-a0-566-g931b005: Fix typo 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/931b005f25ec 07:42:25 Gloves of stealth grant no stealth 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12536 by damerell 09:08:20 would anyone complain if I namespace'd `species_` functions? I know that aidanh and I like namespaces, less sure of how the whole team feels 09:13:55 <09gammafunk> I'm obliged to say this: 09:14:00 <09gammafunk> I like namespaces :wfrDerp: 09:14:10 <09gammafunk> but on a technical level, I have no insight/opinion 09:16:21 <09gammafunk> @nicolae going to have to veto the use of a dryad in nicolae_swamp_no_escape, a monster a player would normally never encounter and that's really only meant to be a player summon. I think an eleionoma would word decently well there, as it's hard to run from those, thus fitting the theme? 09:33:47 <06advil> as I see it, encapsulation + better function names with no risk of name collision 09:35:14 <06advil> which is to some degree already accomplished by function prefixes 09:35:23 <06advil> I'm almost tempted to make a species class though, or species_info, but that's a bigger change 09:38:30 <09gammafunk> well I can say, again speaking as a mere C++/OOP hedge wizard, that I really dislike how so much is jammed into the top-level actor/player/monster classes without much class modeling for aspects attached to those entities 09:38:41 <09gammafunk> so a species class and more of that kind of thing in general sounds good to me 09:39:36 <09gammafunk> not sure if there's specific OOP terminology to describe the kind of structure we have 09:57:03 <08nicolae> all riiiight 😔 an eleionoma would work 09:57:44 <09gammafunk> you wouldn't believe the number of vaults I've had submitted that try to sneak in one of those dryads! 09:57:55 <09gammafunk> it's only like three, actually, but that seems a high amount still 10:05:31 <12ebering> Generally in favor of better using more language tools for code organization etc. 10:05:56 <10PleasingFungus> sounds reasonable to me 10:16:15 <09gammafunk> @nicolae for nicolae_swamp_secret_spriggan_hideout I don't see any reason not to use normal ITEM/MONS over KITEM/KMONS since you don't define over the same glyph, so I'm simplifying it that way 10:16:23 <09gammafunk> not sure if that's a vestige of an earlier version of the vault or not 10:20:47 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus I worry that by shifting the bands around there will just be lone wandering beasts which would also be sad. Do we really have no way of saying “don’t place this monster without a band in 098”? it’s not like there are existing vaults placing beastmasters 10:36:08 <10PleasingFungus> i don't think we have any way of saying that, no 10:36:24 <10PleasingFungus> and i don't think lone wandering beasts is that sad - they can do something on their own, unlike poor Goad Beasts 10:36:40 <10PleasingFungus> lindwurms maybe a little less so 10:37:44 <10PleasingFungus> i haven't investigated this really, so maybe you can find a reasonable way, but i am slightly worried about weird effects on vaults that only expect single monsters in 098 slots 10:38:28 <10PleasingFungus> possible @gammafunk has an opinion on our bandy friends 10:48:32 <08nicolae> it's not a vestige, really, i just usually use KFOO directives rather than FOO, but got into the habit of using the d-k and 1, 2, 3, 4... glyphs 10:49:43 <12ebering> I mean I would simply forbid unbanded 098 from placing beastmasters 10:49:45 <08nicolae> give beastmasters an ability to see if they have a band and if they don't they summon some beasts 10:50:28 <08nicolae> or: beastmasters with no band rage out at the loss of their beasts and go berserk and get beastly melee attacks 10:53:23 <08nicolae> tbh i was worried secret_spriggan_hideout would end up getting nixed for having a hidden area you have to come back upstairs to get to, but maybe that's only a problem for overflow vaults 10:55:12 <12ebering> hm, other issue with beastmasters not being the band leader is in death messages 11:17:01 <09gammafunk> @nicolae vaults that play with stair structure are pretty cool actually; you sort of only see that in Dungeon/Depths...I think some also appear in Vaults? But you don't see it enough in other branches 11:18:28 <08nicolae> i think i got dinged for it once with hidden_temple so i was reluctant to do it elsewhere, that's why i made sure to put little hints in spriggan_hideout to suggestion something else is going on that you should go downstairs for 11:18:29 <09gammafunk> @nicolae Do prefer to use non-K statements unless you need to define things on the same glyph, define a KFEAT for the item/mons etc, since it's "standard"; you could argue that the increased compactness that use of ITEM/MONS allow by allowing multiple defs on the same line is actually bad, but it seems to be how we do things for DES, and K statements only allow one def per line 11:19:14 <08nicolae> i think i just like the precision of KFOO statements because the directive includes the glyph explicitly, which makes it easier to change and read the map imo 11:19:34 <08nicolae> i know i did a few where i used the MONS array but those were pretty simple 11:19:36 <09gammafunk> but one thing I would strongly recommend you do if defining K statements for e.g. monsters, is not define 0 to mean something else (nor 8 or 9), since it it's the same issue of a pre-existing definition being overridden when other glyphs are available 11:19:50 <09gammafunk> yeah it is true you have to "count" to see what glyph is in use with ITEM/MONS 11:20:05 <08nicolae> yeah the only time i redefine 098 is when i want to do something like "0 = 0 / 0 band w:3" 11:20:17 <09gammafunk> well you actually did redefine 0 in this vault 11:20:21 <09gammafunk> which is why I mention it 11:20:29 <09gammafunk> just KMONS: 0 = spriggan 11:20:31 <08nicolae> oh, goddammit, that's right, i use 0 for the basic spriggan 11:20:33 <08nicolae> yep 11:21:02 <08nicolae> i had the numbers going in rough order of threateningness and then i decided to put in regular-ass spriggans... and i already had something on 1... 11:21:12 <08nicolae> my bad, missed that one 11:21:23 <09gammafunk> I do like that order, yeah, from least to most threatening, of course sometimes a linear order doesn't quite make sense 11:21:33 <09gammafunk> since various monsters have some role that's not quite about threat 11:21:41 <09gammafunk> but your "debuff monster" etc 11:22:11 <09gammafunk> in my head, making this as standardized as possible make it easier to make systematic changes to DES since vaults adhere to these standards 11:22:22 <09gammafunk> in practice some of the rules I use probably have fairly minimal impact on that 11:22:36 <09gammafunk> and it's just a nightmare to make systematic changes to DES/Vaults 11:24:17 <08nicolae> i get it, but before now i was very willy-nilly with my glyphs and it's hard to readjust 11:25:40 <09gammafunk> definitely. I'm fine with adjusting syntax on the smaller stuff myself and leaving vaults that don't violate major things alone until there's a need to make a substantive change. Only go after the big No-Nos, if you will 11:25:44 <08nicolae> maybe i'll see what i can do for the other S-branches... going upwards into a spider-filled attic is probably evocative... 11:25:57 <09gammafunk> yep 11:26:08 <09gammafunk> upstairs in shoals into a....sand castle??? 11:27:23 <09gammafunk> @nicolae one last little thing, would you mind doing statements in order of (K)ITEMS -> (K)MONS -> any NSUBST/SUBST/SHUFFLE (w/e order of those three relative to each other is fine, just do what you need to get results you need)? 11:27:37 <09gammafunk> for KFEAT I usually do after all of said things but that's not a big deal 11:27:46 <08nicolae> usually i do KITEM/KMONS at the end after the shuffles because that's when they take effect 11:27:50 <09gammafunk> but items/mons/randomization is a good order 11:28:11 <09gammafunk> they do, but it's identical for ITEM/MONS in that they are just independent of randomization 11:28:41 <09gammafunk> the keyed ones don't care about shuffles/subs/etc if they're not KPROP/KMASK 11:29:10 <09gammafunk> in that you don't define a monster, do a subst, redefine the glyph etc, same for items 11:30:06 <09gammafunk> but it does matter for kprop/kmask of course 11:30:06 <08nicolae> i mean, if i have a bunch of z glyphs, and then i do a SUBST: z = z., and also KMONS: z = zombie, i only get zombies on half the original z glyphs, not all of them. 11:30:09 <09gammafunk> oh, no 11:30:14 <09gammafunk> you'll get the same result either way 11:30:23 <09gammafunk> KMONS: z = zombie, SUBST z = z. 11:30:26 <09gammafunk> gives exact same 11:30:37 <08nicolae> yeah, but putting the KMONS after the SUBST helps keep track of the order while you're reading it 11:30:38 <08nicolae> imo 11:30:55 <08nicolae> since KMONS only applies to the final glyphs, it makes sense to me to put it after the glyphs are finalized 11:31:04 <08nicolae> just for reading 11:31:12 <09gammafunk> well so do MONS, MONS also applies to the final glyphs 11:31:34 <09gammafunk> this is about high level sectioning (ITEM stuff, MONSTER stuff, Randomization) 11:31:54 <08nicolae> 🤔 11:32:26 <09gammafunk> the keyed thing is first and foremost actually about the key 11:32:35 <09gammafunk> that's what the K in all that K stuff stands for 11:32:50 <08nicolae> i had been wondering but didn't really care enough to ask 11:32:59 <09gammafunk> some K statements it does matter for order, some it doesn't 11:33:28 <09gammafunk> it's another thing were I'll make edits to that effect when I merge, so it's nbd, just so you know why I'm doing it -- high level organization 11:33:43 <09gammafunk> this is similar to why we say "NAME, then TAGS, then DEPTH" 11:33:51 <09gammafunk> (except we don't always do that order!!!) 11:33:56 <09gammafunk> at least we always do name first! 11:34:10 <09gammafunk> even though those statements don't care about order at all 11:34:16 <08nicolae> in my head i think of vaults as a series of actions, i.e. randomizations, with the SUBST and SHUFFLE and NSUBST as the meat and potatoes, so to speak, and then everything sort of packed in around them. like the vault tags and depth are setting things up, then you randomize stuff, then you assign meaning to the glyphs you just randomized. 11:35:00 <08nicolae> i'm gonna start putting name last 😈 11:35:05 <09gammafunk> yeah, there is an interesting question of what is the best way to think of this data, how should it be organized, what organization it should required versus what it should allow 11:35:54 <09gammafunk> and I'm down for improving syntax to improve structure 11:35:54 <09gammafunk> but for me high level organization is key 11:35:54 <08nicolae> for me, showing the player a good time before dumping eight fenstriders on them is key 11:36:00 <08nicolae> anyway, i'll see what i can do for ya in that regard going forward 11:36:04 <09gammafunk> I want to read statements in a high level order that's consistent, basically, and there's never a reason not to do e.g. NAME -> TAGS -> DEPTH -> WEIGHT -> ITEMS -> MONSTERS -> RANDOMIZATION 11:36:10 <10PleasingFungus> three is a classic witch number 11:36:15 <09gammafunk> but seriously, I'm open to suggestions about improving that general idea 11:36:22 <09gammafunk> just want to see good structure in the end 11:36:25 <08nicolae> eight is a very discworld number imo 11:36:32 <10PleasingFungus> oh, that makes more sense 11:36:36 <10PleasingFungus> i’m fine w that 11:36:41 <10PleasingFungus> it is! 11:37:09 <09gammafunk> interestingly, for example, it's not always true that you can do randomization before monsters 11:37:16 <09gammafunk> because you need branch-specific defs 11:37:24 <09gammafunk> or branch-depth specific 11:37:26 <08nicolae> true 11:37:27 <09gammafunk> but you usually can! 11:37:50 <09gammafunk> @ebering pinging you about converting DES to xml 11:37:58 <09gammafunk> I know ebering is down 11:38:05 <08nicolae> i'm not typing all those <> 11:38:15 <09gammafunk> ah, you'd simply use our special vault editor! 11:38:50 <08nicolae> i have one! it's called notepad++! i used to use ultraedit but i lost the free version in a computer move and i never got around to Getting a new version, which is a shame because ultraedit's column mode was primo 11:39:23 <08nicolae> ahem. brief text editor fugue there. 11:39:25 <09gammafunk> I actually want to try Kyzrati's (cogmind dev) Rex Edit tool, that's used for vault data in cogmind and a few other games 11:39:33 <09gammafunk> it has a lot of functionality for glyph-based vault stuff 11:39:40 <09gammafunk> windows only, but works great in wine 11:40:00 <09gammafunk> he tells me he could add a dcss export mode too (although plain text does work) 11:40:17 <09gammafunk> for now I stick to vim 11:41:43 <09gammafunk> finally, it's funny to me that you took the time to randomize the quantity of gold in the gold trail to the hideout 11:41:43 <09gammafunk> ITEM: gold q:1 / gold q:2 / gold q:3 / gold q:4 11:41:43 <08nicolae> it would have felt weird to me to just have them all be the same 11:41:57 <09gammafunk> I left it as-is, but isn't 1 piece of gold pretty natural? 11:42:16 <09gammafunk> or is that not how hideout gold trails work 11:42:31 <08nicolae> ehh, the intent is to convey sort of stuff that fell out of their armfuls as they carried things back to their hideout, and so it would come out in little bits but not just one at a time 11:42:47 <09gammafunk> right, 1-4 pieces 11:42:51 <09gammafunk> a 1d4 was rolled 11:42:55 <08nicolae> yeah 11:42:57 <09gammafunk> too bad their dex was too low 11:43:04 <08nicolae> they had too much stuff is all 11:43:23 <08nicolae> some easier way to randomize quantity would be nice, like a q:1-4 option, but that's a very small concern 11:43:32 <09gammafunk> good stuff, the spice lore must flow 11:43:34 <09gammafunk> yes 11:43:40 <09gammafunk> that is something I've also wished for 11:43:50 <09gammafunk> also for plus for e.g. wands 11:43:59 <09gammafunk> or weapon enchant 12:04:58 augh why is ring sacrifice order inconsistent with equipment_type order 12:05:22 <08nicolae> ru fr: Sacrifice Ring Finger, for when you want some piety but don't want to commit to the whole hand just yet 12:07:20 hrm, explicitely placing toxic bog 12:07:36 <08nicolae> i figured there was like a 40% chance i'd get away with that one 12:07:49 I *guess* there's no reason to disallow that... 12:08:11 <08nicolae> my one worry was that players could use it to lure monsters through to poison them, but swamp dragons and drakes poison everybody around them anyway, so 12:08:26 yeah 12:08:33 it's sort of a shame that it's basically decorative though? 12:08:36 from what I can tell 12:08:43 the player doesn't have any reason to be in that area 12:08:59 we do that with clouds a lot though 12:08:59 <08nicolae> yeah, it's more for flavor tbh, but again, i wasn't sure a whole big thing of it would be allowed 12:09:18 <08nicolae> i suppose i could use the basic idea for a rune vault 🤔 12:09:43 well 12:09:52 the miasma swamp vault is among the least well-regarded 12:10:30 New branch created: pull/1816 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1816 12:10:30 03unforgettableid02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1816 * 0.27-a0-583-g6c2fbdc: Clarify that amulet of the acrobat doesn't work while taking stairs 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c2fbdcba44e 12:10:46 flavorful but extremely annoying 12:10:46 but part of that is due to how it's impossible to finish the vault without going through that area 12:10:46 is there a pattern to it or do you hafta just step and hope? 12:11:00 so if you make it more "the player might try to go thtrough here if pressed, but there is an alternate path that involves some kind of alternate danger" 12:11:05 then it works a lot better 12:11:10 <08nicolae> makes sense to me 12:11:11 it's just hard to engineer that 12:11:31 <08nicolae> i can give it a shot and if the vault sucks, well, wouldn't be my first sucky vault 12:11:43 re: miasma cloud patterns, you can wait and try to game it but it's impossible to perfectly line up a sequence of no-current-cloud squares 12:11:57 or if it is possible, it involves a whole ton of waiting and watching the squares 12:12:32 <08nicolae> i was thinking toxic bog might also work in crypt, flavor it as disgusting rot runoff from a mausoleum or whatever, and you don't have to worry about players luring monsters through it since p much everybody in crypt is immune to poison 12:12:49 <08nicolae> i suppose the "bog" name might be an issue but eh 12:13:46 a basic problem is what interesting thing do you do with the bog 12:14:24 I feel just throwing some in for flavor reasons isn't so great, and I'd rather see it used to create some gameplay 12:15:05 <08nicolae> makes sense 12:15:22 did you see that cloud transporter I made? 12:15:46 gammafunk_cloud_chamber in dat/des/variable/float.des 12:16:36 <08nicolae> in the sense of "discouraging one option unless you're brave or well-resistant" it might work slightly better than clouds only because you don't have to stand around watching it to see what it'll do. it's just there. you know what it's going to do. 12:16:36 it surrounds you with clouds, leading into a chamber completely filled with them and with monsters immune to said clouds 12:16:36 but before you open that door to the second chamber, there's a resist pot (or a cancel pot for the mut cloud one) 12:16:38 so you can get a resistance to it before having to walk through the clouds 12:16:56 but the monsters also check that resistance, so if you get it early and that's the only way you can resist the clouds 12:16:59 you have to act fast 12:17:34 the lua tricks are just to randomize the possible cloud/monster combos by depth, since some clouds too nasty earlier on 12:17:35 <08nicolae> very nice 12:18:08 it's how I learned that rCorr and rN gives you completely immunity to acidic and negative energy clouds, respectively! 12:18:18 unlike how it is for flame/freezing cloud 12:18:30 similar to poisonous clouds, I guess, with rpois 12:19:08 don't use negative energy since res pot doesn't give you rN, and the idea is the resistance the vault provides is temporary 12:22:08 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1811 * 0.27-a0-567-gdbcaf8a: Vary terrain by Branch more 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dbcaf8ac8c96 12:23:39 <08nicolae> it has been nice discussing vault strategies but i should probably get some actual work done 😬 12:23:46 <08nicolae> bbl 12:27:56 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1811 * 0.27-a0-568-gca4196e: Typo 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca4196ebb64d 12:29:13 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-582-g4fbd9c9 (34) 12:39:34 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1811 * 0.27-a0-569-gf6ec31b: More terrain matching 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f6ec31b85fd0 13:33:42 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus I've rebased north_star_vaults, are you ok if I force-push and merge if it checks out on ci? 13:33:55 <10PleasingFungus> we need sprites 13:34:00 <12ebering> oh yeah 13:34:01 <10PleasingFungus> even recolours 13:34:14 <10PleasingFungus> other than that , sure 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-583-g0153eab: Vaults:5 spawn table re-layout 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 86+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0153eab8f63a 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-584-g20fa5b6: First pass on new V:1-4 spawn tables 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 37+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/20fa5b646049 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-585-gaa5f200: Add peacekeepers to Vaults 10(10 days ago, 4 files, 17+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aa5f200fd002 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-586-g614dda8: Remove basic centaurs from Vaults 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/614dda805f96 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-587-g06d3a18: Remove chaff orcs from Vaults 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/06d3a1819c3e 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-588-g3538a4f: New Vaults monster: Icegrip Stalwart 10(9 days ago, 13 files, 137+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3538a4fe93c5 13:37:17 03ebering02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-589-g419de05: Move desolation humans to 'a' 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 40+ 39-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/419de0520c5f 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-590-g64962e5: New Vaults monster: Ironbound Thunderhulk 10(9 days ago, 14 files, 112+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64962e5e685b 13:37:17 03ebering02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-591-g2ad6d7d: New monster class flag: M_REQUIRE_BAND 10(44 minutes ago, 4 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ad6d7d5a071 13:37:17 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-592-gcf778bd: New Vaults monster: Ironwhip Beastmaster 10(10 days ago, 12 files, 99+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf778bdeb3ca 13:37:17 ... and 5 more commits 13:37:37 Branch pull/1793 updated to be equal with north_star_vault: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1793 13:37:58 my I recommend an orb fetus tile? 13:38:16 <08nicolae> how good do the sprites have to be 13:39:17 I'm not going to invest any effort into this particular bikeshedding, both because I'm outnumbered and because it's just a name 13:39:49 but I don't love that style of name e.g. Ironbrand Convoker, Ironwhip Beastmaster etc 13:40:07 * geekosaur isn't real fond of it either 13:40:10 is there a descriptive phrase that describes that style of name? 13:40:45 yeah I think it's a love-it-or-hate-it thing and probably a lot of people do like that naming style 13:41:03 <08nicolae> compound nouns, i guess? 13:41:10 <12ebering> f l a v o u r t o w n n o u n s 13:41:36 ironbeard boozedrinker 13:41:47 lol 13:41:52 hammerfoot baddancer 13:41:57 they make me think I'm playing a game that looks like this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vcq4-P2xOpY/maxresdefault.jpg 13:42:06 which, fr: heritage armour 13:42:15 oh wait I guess we had that and removed it 13:42:17 <08nicolae> you are playing a game that looks like that.............. in your imagination! 13:43:43 typeofclan actionverber 13:43:43 I will forgive you all if you can make crawl's name generator spit out names according to that style 13:43:43 this is who we are, and this is what i do 13:43:43 PlogWorthy Ufetubuser 13:45:45 04Build failed for 08north_star_vault @ ab203c0d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/636782599 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-583-g5b3d1b3: Vaults:5 spawn table re-layout 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 86+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b3d1b350e1a 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-584-g819e06e: First pass on new V:1-4 spawn tables 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 37+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/819e06ef27d5 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-585-g8c784d3: Add peacekeepers to Vaults 10(10 days ago, 4 files, 17+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c784d3e9e43 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-586-ga8d2804: Remove basic centaurs from Vaults 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8d2804a19a4 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-587-g03ae089: Remove chaff orcs from Vaults 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/03ae0890bef7 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-588-g9d9a434: New Vaults monster: Icegrip Stalwart 10(9 days ago, 13 files, 136+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9d9a43486554 14:20:04 03ebering02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-589-g6af5b4d: Move desolation humans to 'a' 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 40+ 39-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6af5b4de910e 14:20:04 03PleasingFungus02 {ebering} 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-590-g7ad9c32: New Vaults monster: Ironbound Thunderhulk 10(9 days ago, 14 files, 111+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ad9c3269b2f 14:20:04 03ebering02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-591-g211524a: New monster class flag: M_REQUIRE_BAND 10(87 minutes ago, 4 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/211524ae5fc4 14:20:04 03ebering02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-592-gf2fed20: New Vaults monster: Ironwhip Beastmaster 10(25 minutes ago, 12 files, 99+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2fed20c9fb8 14:20:04 ... and 5 more commits 14:20:24 Branch pull/1793 updated to be equal with north_star_vault: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1793 14:20:41 <12ebering> Sorry for the second force push, messed up the rebase slightly 14:21:42 -!- kate-- is now known as kate- 14:22:47 <12ebering> @wormsofcan The new vaults monsters have stabilized, do you know if you'll have much art time soon? If not I can stick in some recolours. 14:51:14 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:54:18 <10PleasingFungus> @gammafunk i like that the names thematically unify those enemies, forming a connection between them. i’d be fine with another shared naming style as well 15:05:36 04Build failed for 08north_star_vault @ 907181b6 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/636901465 15:07:54 <10PleasingFungus> can imagine, say, ‘vaults preserver/vaults convoker’ etc, or ‘scarlet convoker/emerald sentinel’ etc, or ‘hand of convocation/fist of warding/blade of thunder’ etc 15:08:03 <10PleasingFungus> at gamma funk^ 15:08:23 <10PleasingFungus> color/gem theme might feel a bit super sentai, admittedly... 15:09:53 i'm also not a fan of the vaults naming scheme fwiw, i'd much prefer something like "vaults jobname" yeah, similar to other branches where it's typically "speciesname jobname" 15:11:13 or even if it were just the same prefix for every monster instead of slightly varying it every time 15:13:03 <10PleasingFungus> ‘iron preserver’ etc? 15:13:03 <10PleasingFungus> probably not exactly that - would read as golems 15:14:01 <10PleasingFungus> maybe ‘ironbound’ or similar 15:16:40 i guess the first word is less 'this is who we are' and more 'these are the types of items we like' 15:24:41 ironbound seems like it would fit, yeah (and "vaults beastmaster" is a bit awkward for example but "ironbound beastmaster" sounds better to me there) 15:25:38 <10PleasingFungus> seems reasonable to me 16:26:45 hm manual lore suggests that an octopode with blade hands up should have four tentacle blades (equiv. to two hands), and so with sac hand should still have two tentacle blades. (trying to settle the VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION of whether the flavor messages for that case use a plural) 16:35:03 (not that flavor has to win here, but I wonder also if it would be more consistent with this flavor for MUT_MISSING_HAND to subtract two tentacles) 16:37:10 <10PleasingFungus> huh 16:37:17 <10PleasingFungus> quite the lore 16:38:07 I'm guessing all this stuff exists because people were like "why can't I wield 8 weapons at once" 16:39:02 <10PleasingFungus> one important note here: ring slots 16:39:30 <10PleasingFungus> currently sac hand on octo subtracts exactly one? 16:40:01 New branch created: pull/1818 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1818 16:40:01 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1818 * 0.27-a0-564-ge35ac8e: Make Poison vault always accesible 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e35ac8e0bf7e 16:40:35 PleasingFungus yes that is what I was alluding to with the last parenthetical 16:40:39 they lost just one 16:40:42 *lose 16:41:39 it would impact constriction too of course 16:42:01 and overall be a harsher sacrifice 16:42:22 <10PleasingFungus> ah, i misread 16:42:52 <10PleasingFungus> suspect this would add more confusion than it cures 16:43:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 16:43:16 <10PleasingFungus> don’t think players know about 2 tentacle lore or expect to lose two rings from sac hand 16:43:25 I definitely didn't know about it 16:44:10 <10PleasingFungus> nb that you can make these consistent - if you need two tentacles to hold a shield, saccing just 1 would be enough to prevent you from doing so 16:44:24 <10PleasingFungus> and also lose you only 1 ring slot 16:44:40 <10PleasingFungus> where do blade tentacles land in this scenario? probably still plural 16:44:47 still plural 16:44:58 the plural there is also a bit confusing if you don't know this stuff 16:45:18 there are a few places where fo hands are called "hand-pairs", could do something like that 16:49:40 <10PleasingFungus> i regret not working more on communicating palentonga flavour to players 16:49:56 <10PleasingFungus> should’ve called them armourdillos 16:49:58 <10PleasingFungus> maybe 16:53:36 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-583-gefe1b44: Refactor some eq slot checks 10(81 minutes ago, 14 files, 189+ 132-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efe1b4415710 16:53:36 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-584-g3bd3a8e: Remove some direct conditioning on missing hand 10(61 minutes ago, 5 files, 9+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3bd3a8edd8de 16:53:36 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-585-g9450259: More hand name cleanup 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 30+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/945025970d70 16:54:15 maybe they need a hand name 17:17:33 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-585-g945025970d (34) 17:41:44 <08nicolae> you should absolutely have done this, what is wrong with you 😠 18:06:12 <10PleasingFungus> i didn’t think of it! 18:06:21 <10PleasingFungus> no bully 18:24:07 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-585-g945025970d (34) 18:25:44 advil, hand sacrifice issue: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11879 18:48:57 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3968-g16565f3459 19:03:55 hm I thought it should already be doing what you suggest there 19:08:08 or possibly my change earlier today accidentally did tht 19:25:50 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-586-g7488d4e: Convert octopode tentacles to a real mutation 10(11 minutes ago, 12 files, 37+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7488d4e55c92 19:25:50 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-587-g3569856: Condition a physiology check on bonelessness rather than species 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3569856083f8 19:25:50 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-588-gf99593c: Swap L/R ring in % display order 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f99593c837f1 19:31:24 down to 5 fakemuts (not counting draconian abilities) 19:32:17 *6 19:32:23 well, and not counting stuff that is in code only 19:34:26 <10PleasingFungus> right first, huh 19:34:44 <10PleasingFungus> so the right ring is printed physically to the left? 19:42:07 it's top to bottom 19:46:50 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-588-gf99593c837 (34) 19:48:23 although apparently in the ring removal prompt it is that way 20:07:08 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:09:42 <10PleasingFungus> cruel world 20:11:57 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-589-ga811992: Make stealth ego work on any slot 10(88 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a811992cb36c 20:17:15 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-589-ga811992cb3 (34) 20:34:25 <08Lasty> Does Palentonga roll stab? 20:47:31 <10PleasingFungus> yes, but it wakes up enemies with the noise before it reaches them 20:47:35 <10PleasingFungus> so you need to have para, petr, or similar to get a stab 21:08:21 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:10:49 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 21:10:58 <08Lasty> ahh 21:20:18 <08wormsofcan> @ebering I'll block off some time at the end of this week to do them (as well as some backlog) 21:20:46 <10PleasingFungus> ooh, thinking about also doing dread lich and/or zephyrmancer? 21:22:28 <08wormsofcan> yeah I can add those too 21:22:28 <10PleasingFungus> sweet 21:22:28 <10PleasingFungus> that'd rule 21:22:28 <08wormsofcan> did assassin hood get an update after the feedback I left? 21:22:42 <10PleasingFungus> no idea, sorry 21:24:30 <08wormsofcan> hrmm need to find the text file I put all the todo tiles 21:25:01 <08wormsofcan> iirc the stuff I know is missing is cigotuvi unrand, gammafunk requested some abyssal trees recently and maybe get a better witch 21:26:07 <09gammafunk> @wormsofcan abyssal trees are definitely a "nice to have" if you feel like it, rather than a thing we most have, but if you have the time would be awesome 21:28:17 <08wormsofcan> yeah I will get as much done as I can over the weekend 21:30:36 <09gammafunk> @PleasingFungus my suggestion: gnomic beastmaster, gnomic stalwart, gnomic peacekeeper, gnomic gnome.... 21:30:48 <10PleasingFungus> i'm gonna bean you with an ORB 21:31:10 <10PleasingFungus> did you have opinions on any of my other thoughts? 21:31:27 <09gammafunk> re: names, or something else? 21:31:30 <10PleasingFungus> yeah 21:31:39 <10PleasingFungus> or just in general. right now i'm thinking about ice cream flavours 21:32:44 <09gammafunk> a little short on time at the moment, but a unifying descriptor could be good; I'm not an expert on naming things 21:34:06 <09gammafunk> I tried to name the moon base after an alien name I came up with, and kate suggested we just name it after lehudib 21:34:06 <09gammafunk> pretty much totally unrelated to your request, but there you go 21:34:17 <10PleasingFungus> fair enough 21:34:19 <10PleasingFungus> i shan't keep you longer 22:10:56 <08Lasty> oh hey, swamp has its own style of juggernauts now 22:17:29 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, vaguely thinking about tweaking them to make em a bit more distinct 22:17:35 <10PleasingFungus> but do like their sprite 22:18:14 <08Lasty> agreed on sprite. Also, not sad to see more juggernauts. 22:18:19 <08Lasty> %?? bunyip 22:28:27 <10PleasingFungus> mess with the jugg, get the... uh... damage 23:07:24 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-590-g9424416: Simplify Airstrike damage 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/94244163b483 23:17:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-590-g94244163b4 (34) 23:25:41 <08nicolae> if there was some way to do an NSUBST on multiple glyphs where you could specify "leave the glyph as is", i think that would help a lot with maze design 23:26:24 <08nicolae> so like NSUBST: DEF = 1: / . where 1: would mean "leave one glyph as-is, D E or F, and change the rest to ." 23:27:00 <08nicolae> or SUBST, even 23:27:08 <09gammafunk> That does work already 23:27:11 <08nicolae> wait what 23:27:40 <09gammafunk> Specify a set of glyphs and they get treated as a set 23:28:15 <08nicolae> oh i know that part, what i mean is, a way to specify in an NSUBST to not change a certain number of them 23:29:33 <09gammafunk> Oh, well just do a set nsubst first to intermediate glyph 23:29:47 <08nicolae> they need to keep the original glyph, is the thing 23:29:52 <09gammafunk> Then do set subst again on remaining 23:30:01 <09gammafunk> Hmmm 23:31:19 <09gammafunk> Yeah if you do like 23:31:57 <08nicolae> so for instance, if you had NSUBST: DEF = 2: / . (assuming that such a thing worked), you might get DE., D.F, .EF but (and here is the essence of what i'm going for) if a previous NSUBST had already changed D to ., you would always get .EF, because it would not change two of them, and then there's no more left to turn into . 23:40:12 <08nicolae> if done correctly with enough NSUBSTs it could be used to guarantee connectivity in mazes of rooms without ending up with just everything connected 23:40:23 <08nicolae> however i acknowledge i might be the only person who cares