00:12:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-486-ged9a950: Mark !cancel useless when appropriate 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed9a95061b21 00:12:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-487-gfad94b1: Make duration data short text consistent 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 28+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fad94b14d990 00:12:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-488-g88baaf1: Preview !cancel in its description 10(84 seconds ago, 4 files, 63+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88baaf19db72 00:16:07 <10P​leasingFungus> so weird thing i just learned 00:16:35 <10P​leasingFungus> spriggan druids, on death, heal + might nearby beasts. not every nearby beast. not just one nearby beast. between 3-6 nearby beasts, randomly. 00:16:40 <10P​leasingFungus> this feels like something that could be simplified... 00:19:43 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-488-g88baaf19db (34) 00:50:30 <12e​bering> @PleasingFungus disabling stat boosts for melded slots would maybe be weird because they'd still count for piety purposes, and making them not count for piety would be even weirder (transform into a major slot-melding form to get 6* and the melee boosts from the melee on your unmelded jewels) 00:51:43 <12e​bering> 2. The goals were: move ash away from an awkward item interaction + exploration piety system, meditate on the idea of curses<->knowledge and make the system a bit more interactive and shapeable 00:52:42 <12e​bering> 3. yes its tuning time 00:54:49 -!- Thurl is now known as Nivim 00:59:46 <12e​bering> 4. getting old ash to boost spellcasting was somewhat hard, but old ash spellcasting boost didn't grant mp or slots; fighting was never boosted, and when I added it I knew it would go like heroism and not grant maxhp. I see three ways to go: grant all the boosts, then deal with players being over their spell-level limit after shattering curses. leave it be "it's like heroism its not a permanent par 00:59:46 of you" which is a bit of a trap w.r.t. unintuitive behavior. remove the self curse. Not sure what I think about each choice... 01:01:21 <10P​leasingFungus> i’m not sure i follow (1), sorry 01:01:54 <10P​leasingFungus> it doesn’t seem particularly odd to me that they’d count for piety but not skills while melded 01:02:22 <12e​bering> now that you mention it yes 01:02:27 <12e​bering> still have a blur of old ash in my brain 01:02:30 <10P​leasingFungus> right now, most of their inscribed properties turn off while melded, but not the skill boosts 01:02:39 <10P​leasingFungus> that seems odder to me 01:02:44 <12e​bering> yes 01:03:10 <10P​leasingFungus> (2) good (3) good 01:03:15 <10P​leasingFungus> kind of funny tho 01:03:28 <10P​leasingFungus> iirc ash was the very first exploration piety god? 01:03:44 <10P​leasingFungus> ashes to ashes, i suppose 01:04:36 <10P​leasingFungus> (4) can we give mhp/mmp but not spell levels? is that crazy? 01:05:35 <10P​leasingFungus> another idea is to force amnesia on shatter if over max spell levels, but that’s a recipe for bugs tbqh 01:05:50 <10P​leasingFungus> plus creates weird incentives around free amnesia 01:06:59 <10P​leasingFungus> i guess i currently lean ‘give mhp/mmp but not spells’ > ‘remove self curse’ > other options, but feel there’s a more elegant solution very close 01:11:37 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a: Nerf new Ashenzari skill boost 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24c7b1a3efe7 01:17:05 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a3ef (34) 01:28:47 PF, players already can have more spells then they could: Ru's sacrifice level or sacrifice skill. Just pointing out. 01:29:42 than* 01:35:31 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a3ef (34) 01:56:05 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a3ef 01:58:45 <05k​ate> it's been possible basically forever with old draining existing, too 01:58:45 <12e​bering> well in that case sounds like giving the full boosts is probably fine 01:59:22 <05k​ate> and in fact it probably happens specifically with ash currently already, since ash wrath also lowers skills 02:22:15 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 02:46:10 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a3ef (34) 02:53:58 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-489-g24c7b1a3ef 03:33:26 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3944-gcf420f87c6 05:45:08 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:25:32 New branch created: pull/1792 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1792 06:25:32 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1792 * 0.27-a0-490-g6e63e88: Rename some local variable in spectral_weapon_fineff::fire(). 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e63e8857364 09:14:55 -!- Vaevictu1 is now known as Vaevictus 09:47:11 grey dragons are themed as unbreathing but don't have MUT_UNBREATHING 09:47:16 er, draconians 09:47:47 well, themed as "not needing to breathe" which for unbreathing purposes would amount to the same thing 09:55:37 oh, no, they do have it, hm 10:21:34 right, at xl 7 10:21:41 which is why I was confused 10:22:26 I wonder what the point of that is, though I see that draconians are just kind of inconsistent about this 10:22:50 <08n​icolae> once the species have been specified as a collection of general traits rather than hardcoded references, you know what that means? 10:22:58 <08n​icolae> RANDSPECIES 11:02:40 How do I choose draconian colour in wizmode? 11:03:22 Nvm, sorry for hasty question. 11:15:32 Vampires (and grey dracs) are affected by dream dust (supposedly they should be immune). 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12529 by Yermak 11:19:38 Yermak: small note re the last point in that report, if you are testing in wizmode using &r, draconians won't show subspecies mutations like unbreathing until xl7, that is exactly what messed me up too (they will show fakemuts, which grey drac walk through water is implemented as) 11:19:58 huh 11:20:21 it doesn't matter in practice because outside of wizmode there is no way to have something of SP_GREY_DRACONIAN (etc) that is less than xl 7 11:22:36 I don't think the flavor of dream dust is really supposed to be that it is inhaled 11:23:07 the code definitely doesn't check unbreathing 11:23:43 looks like a bog standard monster hex check aside from counting the sheep 11:23:54 <09g​ammafunk> @PleasingFungus re: that foxfire PR, I think the basic problem is our other spells consistently fail with "nothing happens" in the general case when a monster can't be created. There are a variety of weird conditions that might trigger that, and while probably the most common case is not enough room, it's likely the best move to be correct and consistent with other monster-creating spells for 11:23:55 handling the general case. You could add a clause to specifically handle the "no available space" condition and return a message about that, but you'd have to check specifically for that. We could change the handling of monster-creating spells to better about aborting the cast when there's no room, but we'd have a lot of spells to change 11:25:48 *consistently except for OOD 11:26:32 <10P​leasingFungus> > You could add a clause to specifically handle the "no available space" condition and return a message about that, but you'd have to check specifically for that. 11:26:41 <10P​leasingFungus> this seems totally reasonable to me? 11:26:51 <10P​leasingFungus> could even generalize it and apply it to many other monster creating spells, though that's not required 11:27:56 <09g​ammafunk> right, we have a lot of similar spells (either summoning or conjuration) that do similar behaviour, so my second point is that allowing this for foxfire only is inconsistent 11:27:56 <09g​ammafunk> and since the case where this would happen with foxfire is actually quite rare, not sure we want to make an exception there 11:27:59 <10P​leasingFungus> is it a problem if it's inconsistent? 11:28:15 advil, if it's not supposed to be, what's the way to say who's immune and who's not? Because sheep's description doesn't say (immune) next to their spell. 11:28:17 <10P​leasingFungus> will it break player expectations? 11:28:39 <09g​ammafunk> well, the case for triggering this is rare: no vaiable space in the summon radius 11:28:55 <12e​bering> it's less rare for foxfire's radius 1 11:28:57 <09g​ammafunk> for foxfire use cases, this is pretty rare 11:28:58 <09g​ammafunk> right 11:29:08 <09g​ammafunk> but with this change, it's radius 2 11:29:19 <09g​ammafunk> I think that bit is correct; the summon radius is 2 tiles from caster 11:29:29 probably changes the corridor dynamics quite a bit if I'm understanding the change 11:29:40 <09g​ammafunk> yes, it is a significant change 11:29:45 <10P​leasingFungus> yeah, i think that having foxfire act more like ood than like summons makes sense 11:29:50 <12e​bering> yeah I'm more concerned about the radius 11:29:51 <09g​ammafunk> but for the error case we're talking about, that's not going to be too likely with the change 11:30:07 woudl rather have wavering foxfire than it popping up behind the enemy personally (but I'm not sure I like wavering foxfire) 11:30:20 <10P​leasingFungus> wavering foxfire? 11:30:22 <09g​ammafunk> wavering foxfire! 11:30:30 <10P​leasingFungus> wavering foxfire........ 11:30:30 cf. wavering ood 11:30:33 <12e​bering> also imo both foxfire and summons should warn the player and cost no time if the player can see that there are no viable spaces 11:30:40 <12e​bering> since that's the sort of thing we like to help our players with 11:30:46 <10P​leasingFungus> yes, this is exactly what i was saying 11:30:51 <10P​leasingFungus> (or trying to say!) 11:30:57 <09g​ammafunk> yeah I agree ebering; my point was, there's an awful lot of spells we have to change if we want this to be the case 11:31:08 <09g​ammafunk> and from what I can see, no easy way to change them all at once 11:31:10 <10P​leasingFungus> i guess my question is, is it a problem if we only change some spells for now? 11:31:14 <10P​leasingFungus> or even one spell? 11:31:17 <09g​ammafunk> since you need to add a clause to check some condition 11:31:27 <12e​bering> yes, the 18 spells in the summoning school minus tentacle and forest 11:31:33 <10P​leasingFungus> i guess it's very unclear to me why we'd need to change everything at once 11:31:36 <09g​ammafunk> also some conj spells! 11:31:39 <09g​ammafunk> like ball lightning 11:31:45 <09g​ammafunk> (probably?) 11:31:55 <12e​bering> also agree here 11:33:45 <12e​bering> anyway, I'm down on the radius 2 change for the change to corridor endpoint dynamics and up on the checking things because imo it's no problem to be inconsistent if we're being inconsistent with a bad behavior that we'd like to change in the future 11:34:10 <09g​ammafunk> at the very least we need some kind of // XXX do this for other spells 11:34:18 <12e​bering> reasonable 11:34:20 <10P​leasingFungus> we can certainly add an XXX 11:34:24 <09g​ammafunk> or put it in a wiki 11:34:27 <10P​leasingFungus> i would be concerned about the chance of int drain, however 11:34:29 <09g​ammafunk> and then delete the wiki 11:34:39 <10P​leasingFungus> can we make a new wiki just for this? i think we need more wikis 11:34:48 <09g​ammafunk> oh I did make one just now 11:34:50 <09g​ammafunk> then I deleted it 11:34:54 <10P​leasingFungus> dang 11:36:51 <09g​ammafunk> I'm not actually sure what all can trigger that "don't create monster" condition, aside from no space, monster table full, monster no longer exists (in which case just a hard fail seems fine) 11:37:23 <09g​ammafunk> maybe there's some slightly common condition that can cause it I'm not aware of 11:37:34 <09g​ammafunk> but that's probably why we just handle all those cases with the current catch-all 11:37:47 <12e​bering> well no space is a common condition, our players are not optimal and get surrounded in corridors! 11:37:48 <09g​ammafunk> they're all pretty rare; no space would be at least somewhat common 11:38:10 <09g​ammafunk> I think it's pretty tough to trigger, actually 11:38:32 <09g​ammafunk> you have to have 24 unviable tiles surrounding you 11:39:33 <09g​ammafunk> I can't recall seeing it in any specific instance and I ran a lot of summoners 11:39:33 <12e​bering> in a 1-tile wide zig-zag s.t. you have 2 tiles in los and both are full 11:39:33 <09g​ammafunk> easy to cause messing around in wizmode 11:39:33 <12e​bering> think of the reified suboptimal man! 11:39:33 <09g​ammafunk> yeah, that might be a common way, but of course hard to make that 11:39:44 <09g​ammafunk> suboptimal man is not competent enough to make a zig-zag 11:39:49 <09g​ammafunk> they don't even use dig 11:40:08 <09g​ammafunk> those checkerboard vault patterns 11:41:47 <08n​icolae> you rang? 11:41:58 <12e​bering> dang 11:42:09 <12e​bering> quick delivery 11:42:12 <09g​ammafunk> !splatratio nicolae 11:42:13 <04C​erebot> No recentish chars with XL>=17 for nicolae 11:42:25 <09g​ammafunk> technically optimal 11:44:08 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-490-g656fa3b: Reduce explicit species checks: draconian 10(8 minutes ago, 12 files, 50+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/656fa3bc60ca 11:44:58 <10P​leasingFungus> will no one stop these beeps? 11:45:01 <10P​leasingFungus> these relentless beeps! 11:47:33 Yermak: it looks like it uses can_sleep as its precondition, so it should be undead/non-living/plants, with berserk, clarity, and asleep targets being temporarily immune 11:50:34 <12e​bering> wonder where I got the unbreathing notion 11:50:43 it's pretty intuitive but it doesn't seem to be in any of the flavor text 11:51:19 there's a lot of overlap between unbreathing and the current checks 11:54:57 <08n​icolae> i only play offline, because of reasons, but i don't get many chars to XL 17 offline either 🤷‍♂️ 11:56:06 New branch created: pull/1793 (9 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1793 11:56:06 Branch pull/1793 updated to be equal with north_star_vault: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1793 12:02:11 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-490-g656fa3bc60 (34) 12:04:02 <10P​leasingFungus> ^wroteup the current status of the vaults work 12:05:07 <09g​ammafunk> thx, will take a look 12:05:22 <09g​ammafunk> @nicolae behold the following: 12:05:24 <09g​ammafunk> ??offline 12:05:24 <04C​erebot> offline[1/1]: Doesn't count. 12:05:37 <08n​icolae> i know 12:05:49 <08n​icolae> i accept this 12:28:09 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-490-g656fa3b (34) 12:28:18 Sizif (L19 FeEn) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Depths:1) 13:48:58 ebering: RE foxfire 2-tile radius: The reason for this is to make the spell slightly less bad in corridors. If the player is adjacent to a single monster in a corridor, only one foxfire can spawn, cutting the damage in half. Since early D is largely a maze of corridors, and corridors are essential for cutting down damage from packs, this is a 13:48:59 not-so uncommon situation that even Theoretical Optimal Man (TOM) can get into. Since this is FE's only direct damage spell until level 4, making it slightly less bad in corridors seems like a reasonable buff (it is still quite bad in corridors since you have to back up to make room for your foxfire). 14:13:49 huh, what is the reason to let felids fake-wield non-weapons in their mouth? 14:14:46 <08n​icolae> maybe it was for back in the day when you had to wield stones to do sandblast, etc. 14:19:39 So that they could bread-swing. 15:03:31 <10P​leasingFungus> pretty sure it was for sandblast, sublimation of blood, simulacrula, s2s 15:20:38 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-491-g2427743: Don't grant curse skill boosts for melded equipment (PleasingFungus) 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 16+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2427743e6d5f 15:20:38 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-492-ga4bb394: Allow Ash boosts to adjust max hp, mp and spell levels 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 25+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4bb394fd4c0 15:48:27 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-492-ga4bb394fd4 (34) 15:49:34 Autopickup exceptions not being respected when stepping on fully un-IDed jewellery 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12530 by Lici_the_Crawler 16:13:53 <08n​icolae> i guess there's nothing non-weapon that you'd need to wield anymore, is there? 16:27:11 no, those days are past 16:28:00 but it's sort of true that as long as anyone can breadswing, it is arbitrary to disallow it for felid 16:28:04 fr CMD_BREADSWING 16:28:22 <12e​bering> aut scoring 16:31:01 <09g​ammafunk> hrm 16:31:01 <09g​ammafunk> that rebuild page timed out and no idea if it completed 16:36:50 advil: I tried to rebuild on cbr2, and apparently the CGI isn't set to not buffer. It eventually timed out and now I get a lock message when attempting to try it again 17:41:36 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron 18:01:00 gammafunk yeah there's something weird with it; the lock message means that the process is still running though 18:01:09 sometimes it takes me two tries when I do it by cgi 18:24:02 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-492-ga4bb394fd4 (34) 19:54:10 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1792 * 0.27-a0-491-g59362bd: Change the new name for atk in spectral_weapon_fineff::fire() from attack to atkr. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59362bdbd662 20:34:22 Description of !cancellation needs further tuning. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12531 by Yermak 20:59:15 N - the +1 pair of boots of Masoxu {rampage, Rampage}. 21:00:01 for when you really need to be rampaging, i guess 21:01:02 i guess this is some weird autoinscription behaviour and it's just a randart with a single property, maybe? 21:07:11 oh, or something has changed about how randarts work and they can have an SPARM type as well as randart props now? 21:08:04 since actually it looks like this has the rampaging brand as well as the rampaging art prop 21:11:50 <06a​dvil> is croaking really louder than ribbiting 🧐 21:19:09 hmm well this is extremely confusing and shouldn't be possible, randarts definitely don't look like they should be able to get egos still 21:25:39 something weird about &% where I have to pick the item up twice before it becomes id'd 21:26:19 aha 21:26:33 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-493-g85c0b4d: Fix a vault randart 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85c0b4d56beb 21:27:12 I just got that on a randart with more properties 21:27:12 the +0 pair of boots of the Harvest Moon {rampage, Rampage Str-2 Int+9 Dex+5} 21:27:12 (was just brute-force generating some randart rampage boots in wizmode) 21:27:19 yeah, i just pushed a fix, it's a vault issue 21:27:30 normally items like that can't generate 21:27:52 oh I see 21:28:06 but yeah i came across the same thing with &%, stepping off and on to them also identifies them, i guess a side-effect of how autoid works now 21:28:08 that might still be possible to generate from any pair of boots with ego:rampaging 21:30:45 hmm, i think if i understand it right you shouldn't get a randart out of a regular vault definition like that 21:31:40 but you can get them replaced with a barding, which i guess is also buggy because normally bardings of rampaging don't generate 21:31:51 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-493-g85c0b4d56b (34) 21:38:32 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1791 * 0.27-a0-500-gfd18d65: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into depths_vault_cleanup 10(4 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fd18d6533ccf 21:38:49 <10P​leasingFungus> hm 21:44:52 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-494-ge178da9: Cancellation descr improvements (12531, Yermak) 10(81 seconds ago, 2 files, 15+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e178da98d61a 21:46:35 <10P​leasingFungus> does anyone have any opinion on https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1751 ? 21:47:07 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-494-ge178da98d6 (34) 21:55:13 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-495-g905266d: Describe Ozocubu's Refrigeration and Drain Life in monster 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/905266d83cec 22:01:48 i feel like not always healing hp (especially at low card power) seems like a good feature, even if nemelex doesn't have as much outright dangerous stuff now i think it's good to at least keep some unreliability 22:02:00 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-495-g905266d83c (34) 22:02:32 <10P​leasingFungus> seems plausible to me 22:02:41 <10P​leasingFungus> unrelated: just found what i'm pretty sure is a fun bug 22:02:49 <10P​leasingFungus> or a leftover from an old version of the game, which is similar 22:03:01 <10P​leasingFungus> !lg * recent cikiller=fannar s=kaux 22:03:03 <04C​erebot> 977 games for * (recent cikiller=fannar): 457x by refrigeration, 279x bolt of cold, 133x an uncursed staff of cold, 72x, 30x a +0 quarterstaff of freezing, 2x a staff of cold, 2x freezing vapour, bolt of electricity, living lightning 22:03:11 <10P​leasingFungus> huh 22:32:02 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-496-g18f1c7c: Don't make monster refrig affect the caster 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/18f1c7c63f80 22:33:10 <10P​leasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/816151115790942208/unknown.png 22:45:24 @PleasingFungus I think because you posted that in DM, it won't be visible 22:45:52 <10P​leasingFungus> hm? 22:45:54 <10P​leasingFungus> posted what? 22:45:57 <10P​leasingFungus> oh, the image 22:46:11 <10P​leasingFungus> i briefly posted it here, thought better of it, and deleted it 22:46:16 <10P​leasingFungus> but the bot sees all... 22:47:09 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-496-g18f1c7c63f (34) 22:47:57 oh that's why, then 22:49:14 My mummy just sacrificed Drink. I thought it was impossible. 22:50:06 good bug 22:56:38 03Aliscans02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-497-g5f1ef30: Rename local variables in spectral_weapon_fineff::fire(). 10(17 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f1ef305e613 23:02:12 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-497-g5f1ef305e6 (34) 23:20:10 03kippig02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1791 * 0.27-a0-501-g1604147: more balancing to match XP and danger of depths more closely. Hell entries will give more xp, but it shouldn't make or break anything 10(4 minutes ago, 10 files, 69+ 69-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16041474b47c 23:23:51 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-498-g7ecbb0a: Make *slow stack in the same way as *corrode. 10(31 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ecbb0a48f8f 23:32:06 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-498-g7ecbb0a48f (34)