01:26:07 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3840-g9efd504fd6 01:34:43 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-29-g2d0a2396b0 (34) 01:55:42 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-29-g2d0a2396b0 01:58:57 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 02:16:49 -!- floraline_ is now known as floraline 02:45:22 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-29-g2d0a2396b0 (34) 02:54:06 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-29-g2d0a2396b0 03:07:00 <12ebering> The AZ tracer check is needed because find_abszero_possibilities is used for displaying the targeter, and if an invisible mosnter is closer to the player than the closest visible one it will be the actual target for AZ, but revealing its presence is an information link 03:32:10 Stable (0.26) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-b1-25-gafae2e710b 03:33:02 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3840-g9efd504fd6 04:56:34 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:45:33 -!- cjm_ is now known as cjm 09:01:01 <03wheals> @PleasingFungus if we're giving monsters infinite ammo, i think it's time to remove stochastic mulching entirely and just multiply the stacks of ammo that the player finds accordingly 10:10:35 <10PleasingFungus> @wheals hm, aren’t those mostly separate questions? i remember that monster ammo counts were one issue w removing mulching, but certainly not the only one 10:10:52 <10PleasingFungus> i remain perpetually unhappy w player ranged combat 10:11:13 <10PleasingFungus> ideally we’d have a broader vision for what we want that to be 10:11:51 @PleasingFungus: Three words: Cogmind 10:11:58 <10PleasingFungus> rather than ‘melee combat, but with ammo restrictions that mostly don’t matter, and without all that interesting positioning’ 10:12:17 <10PleasingFungus> @gammafunk cogmind * is * good. 10:13:11 yeah, but more seriously, I think significantly changing accuracy does not work so well in a game with a lot more combat per second 10:13:11 higher cps, if you will 10:13:11 <10PleasingFungus> lol 10:13:11 it is a nice system in that game though 10:13:11 <10PleasingFungus> just make players strap racks of weapons on 10:13:27 <10PleasingFungus> 3xtriple crossbow, 2xcrystal spear launcher 10:13:47 heh, yeah, I guess there's the fact that you stack them; even the way it augments them is more complicated 10:13:53 with things like crit modifiers etc 10:13:54 <10PleasingFungus> i don’t know what this would solve or how it would work in crawl 10:13:58 <10PleasingFungus> but it’s very cool 10:16:25 Hrm, I do sort of suspect, though, that it might need to be the general thrust of the direction you'd want to go in. You have almost spell-like modifiers you can apply to your ranged weapons (based on weapon class and ego presumably, although there's room for spell-based modifications) in terms of what they can do to monsters 10:16:53 perhaps some notion of a crit (with lower non-crit damage), some carefully chosen AOE (maybe with range restriction) 10:17:37 I guess one issue is how do you make a meaningful tradeoff so that not everyone is using these things all the time 10:18:07 I suppose skill is the first gate you can put on that (requiring more skill to overcome delay) 10:18:54 but in cogmind you have a tension between your weapon loadout and slots available and weapons available (since weapons can break) 10:18:54 we have exactly one slot all the time and our weapons don't break, but we do have skill 10:18:57 perhaps...DEX...comes into play 10:19:11 maybe penalties for armour too, not sure 10:19:51 like there's *probably* a workable design in there, but it might feel somewhat redundant with spells 10:20:18 I guess we have MP as our spell limiter, so we just allow spells to have more powerful effects 10:21:17 I'm not sure that having ammo drops (with 100% mulch) is good to have thrown in there, would depend on what the final ranged repertoire looked like 10:22:04 even in cogmind, that's a limitation governed by a quite common resource (matter), which you find readily, but is used extensively by many other things 10:22:13 we would not want to require our ammo to be used for other things 10:22:40 anyhow those are my random ranged combat musings for the day, hope you enjoyed 10:28:01 <10PleasingFungus> i did enjoy! 10:29:14 <10PleasingFungus> my intuition is that (a) ammo seems like a bad fit for crawl (too small a decision for every fight if we want ranged combat to be a primary killdudes mechanic, unless we bring back rare super ammo (branded silver etc) as ‘consumables’ 10:29:17 <10PleasingFungus> ) 10:30:43 <10PleasingFungus> and (b) as you said, it’s very possible that there’s no good design space for ranged weapons that isn’t covered better w spells 10:31:24 <03wheals> most of my ideas for ranged converge to slightly different wands 10:32:05 <10PleasingFungus> them too, yes 11:37:36 -!- advil_ is now known as advil 12:28:24 03gammafunk02 07* 0.27-a0-30-g2edb794: Make player drain fully proportional and buff it 10(46 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2edb794d0a80 12:28:58 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-29-g2d0a239 (34) 12:29:17 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-26-g07627af: Make player drain fully proportional and buff it 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/07627af890a2 12:32:10 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-30-g2edb794d0a (34) 13:34:26 <12ebering> I guess I should distill my thoughts on ranged 13:34:36 <12ebering> Perhaps this is the version we get Ranged Reform 13:36:19 stef (L17 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster ice statue failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 13:54:06 stef (L19 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster phantasmal warrior failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 13:57:42 <12ebering> man zotdef crashes 14:08:36 stef (L21 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster wraith failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 14:22:41 <10PleasingFungus> fr: remove zotdef from servers 14:22:44 <10PleasingFungus> offline only 14:28:29 stef (L21 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster hungry ghost failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 14:38:19 distill your thoughts on ranged?! you're trying to bring back evaporate! 14:42:51 <12ebering> uh oh he's on to me 15:21:41 stef (L24 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster hungry ghost failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 15:42:01 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-31-g353b9ea: Fix launcher autoswitch issues (ardl) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 41+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/353b9ea00c7b 15:43:15 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-27-gfdd64a9: Fix a butterfly+charge+quiver interaction (12410) 10(19 hours ago, 4 files, 35+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fdd64a915407 15:43:15 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-28-g3db0cc0: Improve tremorstone + summons warning checks (12409) 10(19 hours ago, 3 files, 22+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3db0cc08e3c0 15:43:15 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-29-gc81beb8: Fix launcher autoswitch issues (ardl) 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 41+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c81beb8a7414 15:59:44 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-32-g443bf2d: Don't double !f warning for `F` 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/443bf2d2ca0a 16:01:31 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-30-g48a1c18: Don't double !f warning for `F` 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/48a1c1883512 16:02:40 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-31-g353b9ea00c (34) 16:17:09 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-32-g443bf2d2ca (34) 16:50:07 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 17:10:02 Duplicated if Statement. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12428 by bcadren 17:53:53 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 18:23:49 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-32-g443bf2d2ca (34) 19:16:11 does anyone (besides me) have a take as to whether the "source cleanup" mantis category should even exist? 19:17:02 well, I assume historically things in that category probably did come with patches 20:02:48 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] is now known as ici_seen_wolf 20:02:48 -!- ici_seen_wolf is now known as Tux[Qyou] 20:13:10 <10PleasingFungus> not sure it’s particularly helpful 20:28:46 New tournament index page up: https://crawl.develz.org/tournament/0.26/ 20:30:00 ebering: advil: I've made 0.26-tourney branch in the dcss_tourney repo which has new-scoring merged (also into master) as well as a commit specific to 0.26 updating data for tournament and replacing CBRO with CBR2 20:30:37 on CDO there's a checkout of that branch with the CDO-specific configuration commit at HEAD that we want to keep throughout the tournament 20:31:30 have also made an archival 0.25-tourney branch for last t 20:33:21 will next contact server admins about 0.26 and snark with a list of things for sequell. Since we didn't give him much notice, some of those issues might not get fixed until next weekend, but as long as we get the basic tournament config in sequell, should be fine 20:48:57 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-33-g7ddcfd5: Set default startup name from -name at command line 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ddcfd5ad1b8 20:48:57 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-34-gc18c909: Clean up + simplify "Powers" tab Invocations info 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c18c9092ac65 20:50:56 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-31-g3c7a02a: Set default startup name from -name at command line 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c7a02ade2d5 20:50:56 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.26] * 0.26-b1-32-g5d43845: Clean up + simplify "Powers" tab Invocations info 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d43845318bb 21:02:52 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-34-gc18c9092ac (34) 21:15:25 So playing a HOAK, starting out I ran into a silent specter, and the ability to leave the Abyss was not available. Webtiles v0.25 on CAO Is this a bug? 21:16:44 I wouldn't think silence would keep me from using an ability. 21:20:05 Also "Renounce Religion" was grayed out. :o 21:21:37 Ok, so renounce religion is "gray" by default which is why I remember it that way, n/m. 21:22:24 FutureShock: divine abilities generally are unavailable under silence, because you can't ask god for help 21:23:10 amalloy: Oooh. I was thinking they were "abilities" rather than an asking for help. 21:27:57 Like, I guess silence wouldn't apply to Nemelex abilities though? Drawing cards and all. But then there are the extra drawing abilities? Do they require non silence? 21:35:14 nemelex abilities do all check silence, the flavour there is that you still need to call on nemelex to make the cards work or whatever 21:36:08 (although back when they were inventory items they did igore silence, but now that's been changed to be consistent with other god abilities) 21:36:24 ignore* 23:05:30 kate-: I see, fair enough.