01:34:33 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-662-g8b9c6dab81 (34) 01:55:21 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-662-g8b9c6dab81 02:47:47 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-662-g8b9c6dab81 (34) 02:53:31 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-662-g8b9c6dab81 03:30:52 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3570-gb561bb485a 05:58:58 -!- Guest68040 is now known as bh 06:41:03 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:00:28 !tell PleasingFungus Spines on demons actually had meaningful impact on the game: they didn't let owners to get constricted - i.e. rendered them immune to BVC. 08:00:29 Yermak: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 10:39:31 <10PleasingFungus> !tell yermak that’s why hell sentinels are bigger now! 10:39:32 <04Cerebot> This command must be issued directly. 10:39:36 <10PleasingFungus> feh 10:42:18 pleasingfungus, size doesn't matter for BVC constriction! 10:42:45 <10PleasingFungus> hm 10:43:01 <10PleasingFungus> is bvc still overpowered 10:43:08 <10PleasingFungus> or is that only a 0.21 thing 10:43:09 yes 10:43:44 <10PleasingFungus> we can add some kind of constriction immunity to hell sentinels if we want, i just think that spines aren’t a great way to do so 10:43:55 <10PleasingFungus> very obscure from players’ perspective 10:44:16 <10PleasingFungus> and bad lore, ha. (zombie hands are too afraid of spines to grab?) 10:44:54 Most characters in late game use BVC, hell sentinels will be easier for them now. And harder for stabbers. 10:45:10 <10PleasingFungus> sounds like we should just nerf bvc 10:45:20 <10PleasingFungus> much simpler than working around it 10:45:44 I'd personally still use it in late game just for EV reduction. 10:46:03 <10PleasingFungus> presumably depends of the nerf 10:54:12 <10PleasingFungus> obvious nerf is to give bvc a miss chance 10:55:33 <10PleasingFungus> could think more about design goals, tho 10:55:49 <10PleasingFungus> %git 592f7d06 10:55:50 <04Cerebot> gammafunk {ebering} * 0.25-a0-235-g592f7d0: Positional magic ⛰️ 💀: Rework BVC targeting (11 months ago, 7 files, 10+ 48-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/592f7d06486e 11:03:37 <10PleasingFungus> could make it yet another necro melee spell instead. don’t think that’s particularly helpful tho 11:22:59 zombies are a little dumb ive seen them grab spikes and run into traps because of the mind is gone 11:27:48 <08wormsofcan> turn hell sentinels into hell slimetinels 11:54:39 <10PleasingFungus> bold 11:55:32 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering if we’re concerned about constriction on hell sentinels because of bvc, should we just make bvc a bit weaker? 11:58:16 PleasingFungus: Wait, why are we nerfing bvc? 11:58:22 please don't tell me because of hell sentinels... 11:59:07 Really, of all the reactions to BVC I think that's the craziest 11:59:18 Hell sentinels are 100% irrelevant to that spell's power level 12:01:02 Ok I read the scroll back; yeah hell sentinels are not a reason we'd ever want to change that spell 12:02:40 It's a spell that's nice for turncount and it will remain just as good for turncount regardless of any change to hell sentinels, but we don't care about turncount 12:04:23 And I think it's good to reiterate that the strength of hell sentinels will not meaningfully change wrt spiny changes 12:08:59 That is, the whole point of why we were even removing spiny the monster mechanic from most places and also from hell sentinels was that it was not introducing meaningful gameplay/difficulty 12:26:09 <10PleasingFungus> should i ungiantify them, then? 12:26:22 <10PleasingFungus> i have almost no opinion about this 12:26:30 <10PleasingFungus> since i haven’t done extended in ages 12:26:49 <10PleasingFungus> i could write a cool description about hell sentinels being walking fortresses if they stay giabt 12:34:54 <03wheals> ??lore rule 12:34:55 <04Cerebot> I don't have a page labeled lore_rule in my learndb. 12:37:00 <08wormsofcan> if hell sentinels are walking fortresses you need to make them accompanied by hell knights, or give them *hell knights, clearly 12:37:07 oh, I don't know that giant matters too much 12:37:13 did that get changed? 12:37:17 *?hell sentinel 12:37:19 doh 12:37:22 @?hell sentinel 12:37:22 Hell Sentinel (071) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 118-163 | AC/EV: 25/3 08(spiny 5d4) | Dam: 40, 25 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 05damnation, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 2907 | Sp: hurl damnation (3d20) [06!sil], iron shot (3d33) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: human. 12:37:37 @??hell sentinel 12:37:39 Hell Sentinel (071) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 118-163 | AC/EV: 25/3 | Dam: 40, 25 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 05damnation, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 2907 | Sp: hurl damnation (3d20) [06!sil], iron shot (3d33) [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 12:38:03 I didn't catch why they were made giant, but I'm also not sure why that would matter too much 12:38:32 It would mean nagas can't constrict them? Maybe nagas already don't count as large, I forget how that works 12:39:55 glad to see my auto-rebuild of gretell's trunk monster is working at least 13:06:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-662-g8b9c6da (34) 13:11:03 <10PleasingFungus> it was an ebering request re constriction 13:11:16 <10PleasingFungus> agreed it doesn’t matter much 13:15:44 must have missed that in the scrollback 13:16:55 <10PleasingFungus> it was in the public discord 13:17:13 <10PleasingFungus> basically all discussions should be split over as many locations as possible 13:17:19 <10PleasingFungus> to maximize confusion 13:17:47 <10PleasingFungus> i guess my next project is finishing up swamp 3 swamp harder 13:17:55 <10PleasingFungus> this time it’s ogre 13:18:02 <10PleasingFungus> then i’ll need a new project 13:18:03 <12ebering> my request was almost pure flavour 13:18:42 <10PleasingFungus> ? 13:18:42 <10PleasingFungus> what’s wrong w constructing hell sentinels flavourwise 13:20:04 <10PleasingFungus> clearly i’m bad at understanding people lately 13:27:27 <12ebering> I dunno, something about them makes me feel like they can't be constricted 13:27:30 <12ebering> it's a vague notion 13:27:53 <10PleasingFungus> huh 13:29:09 <10PleasingFungus> i’m imagining the hellish clamour of snapping bones and shearing steel as a naga slowly crushes a hell sentinel like a can of coke 13:29:54 <10PleasingFungus> but also i haven’t checked to see if they could do that before 13:33:54 isn't it base on torso size? 13:34:00 I believe naga have large torso 13:35:30 <10PleasingFungus> i thought they were large body, medium torso 13:35:30 <10PleasingFungus> nagas, i mean 13:35:36 <10PleasingFungus> that’s why they can wear normal armour 13:36:28 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, i mostly didn’t remember if the size check was < or <= 13:37:53 I believe it's <= 13:38:01 sadly it's literally impossible for us to be sure 14:39:36 <10PleasingFungus> indeed 14:48:24 Nagas can constrict large enemies. 15:00:06 <10PleasingFungus> ty! 15:03:02 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-663-g36e8fdb: Shrink hell sentinels back down 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/36e8fdb65542 15:17:33 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-663-g36e8fdb655 (34) 15:23:10 ziggurnaut (L11 DsIE) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Orc:1) 18:26:07 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-663-g36e8fdb655 (34) 19:48:56 svendre (L27 GhGl) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Slime:3)