00:22:56 <|amethyst> !learn add literally !see devteam[5] 00:22:56 literally[5/5]: !see devteam[5] 00:22:56 <|amethyst> ??literally[5] 00:22:56 literally[5/5]: !see devteam[5] 00:23:00 <|amethyst> bah 00:23:13 <|amethyst> !learn rm literally[5] 00:23:14 Deleted literally[5/5]: !see devteam[5] 00:24:22 <|amethyst> !learn add literally see {devteam[5]} 00:24:22 literally[5/5]: see {devteam[5]} 00:24:26 <|amethyst> ??literally[5] 00:24:26 devteam[5/27]: sadly that bug is literally impossible to fix by which i mean i tried like once and then gave up 01:13:31 too hard to program 01:21:23 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3570-gb561bb485a 01:34:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-632-g926a82b99e (34) 01:55:08 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-632-g926a82b99e 03:11:29 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:11:51 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-632-g926a82b (34) 03:30:49 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3570-gb561bb485a 07:37:51 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-633-gb3e73fb: Always abort charge targeter with no valid targets (#12355). 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b3e73fbb7a6e 07:46:59 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-633-gb3e73fbb7a (34) 10:21:19 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-634-gb8a88fe: Update the Place: on the sidebar when leaving X. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b8a88fe62bbd 10:32:49 New branch created: pull/1563 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1563 10:32:50 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1563 * 0.26-a0-611-gaaad8d9: fixing weapon subtype 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aaad8d975419 10:32:50 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1563 * 0.26-a0-635-g48fe345: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' 10(75 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/48fe345468df 10:32:50 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1563 * 0.26-a0-636-g37e7bad: added c_message hook 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/37e7bad09d32 10:33:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-634-gb8a88fe62b (34) 11:57:29 <06advil> More on the CBRO upgrade plan: we've decided that it's best to make CBR2 a clean sequel rather than moving everything over. So the idea would be to announce that current CBRO will close in ~ 3 months, with CBR2 as its replacement (starting immediately on announcement), and possibly disable disable games on CBRO. CBR2 inherits the login database but no other data 11:58:07 <06advil> after CBRO closes, permanent data would move to a different cloud location, and we'd probably post remaining save files for download 11:58:26 <06advil> any thoughts on this plan? 11:58:53 <06advil> CBR2 is currently up for testing at https://cbro.berotato.org 11:59:04 <06advil> (with a nice atm machine style url) 11:59:22 <06advil> if you have a login on cbro and didn't make it in the last week or so, that should work on CBR2 11:59:28 <06advil> there may be a data wipe still, not sure 12:02:12 <06advil> some links and redirects still being tweaked 12:16:44 <09gammafunk> My login works. Importantly I have the admin panel to use for all my frivolous desires 12:17:44 <09gammafunk> Would new server eventually take over the old crawl.berotato.org hostname? 12:18:54 <06advil> yeah, that's the idea 12:20:13 <09gammafunk> So in terms of logfile/milestones, how does that work? I assume that you'd need to copy over logfiles/milestone files in order for scoring/sequell to work in a sane way 12:20:25 <09gammafunk> Since the server designation and hostname are the same 12:21:13 <06advil> right, there's a slightly tricky transition there if the hostname changes...I think the best strategy independent of hostnames would be to move those to my backblaze account where I already have some cszo data, and adjust sequell/scoring accordingly 12:21:26 <06advil> the ones for CBRO 12:21:45 <06advil> basically archiving them at that point 12:22:24 <06advil> scoring doesn't deal super well with source location changes if you aren't careful but it can be handled in a way that doesn't require rereading the whole db 12:22:34 <06advil> not sure about sequell for that 12:23:26 <06advil> while the servers are in concurrent existence we'd just use the distinct URLs; I guess one option if necessary would be to eventually just redirect crawl to cbro? 12:24:28 <06advil> (btw ZureaL is in this channel on the irc side, I've just been taking point since I'm known 🙂 12:24:47 <09gammafunk> oh no, another server admin with a Z in their name who uses strange capitalization :wfrShock: 12:25:03 <09gammafunk> (remember ZiBuDo) 12:25:09 <06advil> lol didn't think of that 12:25:13 <09gammafunk> I don't think that's even the right capitalization 12:25:16 <06advil> could be worse, could be another a name 12:27:13 <06advil> (unrelated) hm, is there a deep reason why tab firing prioritizes the closest target but direction chooser autotarget selection chooses the most recent one? Am I even getting that correct? 12:27:21 <06advil> there's a very weird division of labor between these 12:27:36 <06advil> maybe at least in part a historical artifact 12:30:03 <09gammafunk> sequell config for cbro is here: https://github.com/crawl/sequell/blob/master/config/sources.yml#L150 I don't think Sequell can have multiple "base" urls for sources. It sounds we'd need to have another entry for cbro 2.0, which wouldn't work if we wanted sequell queries to have cbro refer to both sources. I think it would probably work better if you hosted the cbro 1.0 logfiles/milestones on cbro 12:30:03 2.0? 12:30:35 <06advil> the plan is to have distinct source names for them 12:30:52 <06advil> the logistics of transferring data cleanly between two servers, which don't match in versions, became too complicated 12:30:53 <09gammafunk> ok, if the source names are distinct, then that probably removes all issues 12:32:19 <06advil> yeah, it will mean you can't use cbro to search for cbr2 games, but I think given our strategy that is the right thing to do 12:32:34 <06advil> since there won't be any continuity of games the way we're approaching it 12:32:47 <06advil> it would be possible to host cbro sources on cbr2 eventually, though I was thinking it might be simpler to just archive them into a cloud account if they have to move location 12:33:04 <06advil> (cbr2 has a 1T disk, so space for all things...until it runs out) 12:46:45 <09gammafunk> ooh, cbro loses all those old versions 12:46:45 <09gammafunk> guess there's still CAO for those (and others) 12:47:06 <09gammafunk> and we gain https, that's nice 12:49:39 <12ebering> wow CBR2 12:49:42 <12ebering> What a world 12:49:56 <09gammafunk> sorry, this server will be NO DEVS ALLOWED 12:50:02 Does CBR2 need to take on the crawl.berotato.org hostname? 12:50:27 the SSL key I have for cbr2 isn't a wildcard cert, so I'd have to get new certs, etc... 12:50:32 <12ebering> It appears I'm not a dgl admin on cbr2 12:50:42 <09gammafunk> are you dgl admin on cbro currently? 12:50:56 <12ebering> perhaps I was never a dgl admin on cbro? I remember trying to do a rebuild once and finding I couldn't and asking johnstein about it 12:51:42 <09gammafunk> ZureaL: I think the answer is no, but advil can certainly weigh in there. Since the sources "names" are distinct to our scoring systems, there wouldn't be much use in handling the old name 12:52:19 <09gammafunk> Well you can check now for cbro, ebering 12:52:19 <09gammafunk> if you can't access the rebuild url with your login/password, you're not an admin 12:52:19 <09gammafunk> ??rebuild[2 12:52:19 <04Cerebot> rebuild[2/2]: Trunk update start times in UTC (second number during summer time): CAO: 1700; CDO: 0600/0500; CUE: 2300/2200; CBRO: 0800/0700; CXC: 0500/0400; CPO: every 15 minutes; CKO: trunk every 15 minutes, other versions 0830/0730. 12:52:19 <09gammafunk> er 12:52:19 <09gammafunk> ??rebuild 12:52:19 <04Cerebot> rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.kelbi.org/rebuild/ Bug gammafunk, advil, |amethyst, or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 12:52:25 <09gammafunk> third url will prompt you 12:52:35 <09gammafunk> but yeah, ebering should be a dgl admin for cbr2 at least 12:52:43 https://cbro.berotato.org/rebuild would be cbr2 12:53:06 <09gammafunk> yep, but if he doesn't see admin panel on cbr2, he's not dgl admin (cbro doesn't have admin panel) 12:53:30 if he is supposed to be, I might know a guy that could fix that 12:53:39 <06advil> maybe what would be easiest is to just redirect from crawl.berotato.org 12:53:45 <06advil> eventualluy 12:53:56 <09gammafunk> I can vouch for ebering as a dgl admin, he's good at ruining things like all crawl devs should be 12:54:34 <06advil> currently I think dgl admin just means rebuild access, wizmode access, and announcements 12:54:44 <06advil> in case you were wondering 12:54:53 <09gammafunk> yeah, and access to save backups from dgl 12:54:57 <06advil> ah right, that too 12:55:02 <06advil> not sure if we have that setup yet or not 12:58:40 <09gammafunk> I sort of hope we go with a different final hostname scheme and source name for cbr2 though 12:59:08 <09gammafunk> cbro.berotato.org would break.....hrm, I guess it's kind of a cool recursive name joke 12:59:32 <09gammafunk> I was could to say it breaks the idea of how we name those sequell sources, e.g. crawl.akrasiac.org -> cao 12:59:58 <06advil> CBROBRO? 13:00:01 <09gammafunk> It does technically fit the pattern, but it's weird. And then the new url is confusing, as well 13:00:34 <06advil> we did consider CBRO2 13:01:12 <06advil> it's better to settle on a final source name now, but I think that source name cannot be CBRO 13:01:59 <09gammafunk> yeah, I guess trying to rename old cbro to e.g. cbro-old or whatever is a terrible idea 13:02:00 I liked CBR2 because it stuck with the 4-character theme of CBRO 13:03:31 <06advil> oh I suppose eventually renaming old cbro might be possible, though it would involve rebuilding some databases 13:03:46 <06advil> it would change game_keys 13:04:12 <09gammafunk> yeah, it might be a pain on the sequell side as well, and until we take over Sequell from snark (assuming that eventually happens), don't want to make extra work for him 13:05:41 <06advil> in some ways this is mostly not consequential except for sequell for the purposes of assigning game_key values, and it doesn't matter if what the server calls itself changes 13:05:52 <06advil> huh, in fact I notice that sequell allows source name aliases 13:05:59 <06advil> !lg * source=cbo 13:05:59 <04Cerebot> Unknown field: source 13:06:27 <06advil> !lg * cbo 13:06:29 <04Cerebot> 1755238. Midn8 the Martial Artist (L10 HuTm of Nemelex Xobeh), mangled by a wolf spider zombie on D:7 (cheibrodos_grave_circle) on 2020-09-13 17:04:45, with 3108 points after 8524 turns and 0:20:40. 13:06:56 <06advil> !lg * game_key=~cbo 13:06:59 <04Cerebot> 2169. docbosch the Petrodigitator (L27 GrEE of Vehumet), blasted by a Brimstone Fiend (damnation) (created by the effects of Hell) on Geh:7 (evilmike_geh) on 2020-09-09 21:57:26, with 752842 points after 100334 turns and 10:08:01. 13:07:10 <06advil> so I guess even changing that is doable! 13:07:29 magic! 13:07:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-634-gb8a88fe (34) 13:15:40 <10PleasingFungus> wait 13:15:41 <10PleasingFungus> oh no 13:15:58 <10PleasingFungus> does this mean i have to actually finish my ancient cbro game 13:16:07 <10PleasingFungus> i was hoping i’d have another few years 13:17:07 <10PleasingFungus> imo you should do the switchover on new years 13:17:15 <10PleasingFungus> clean break! 14:03:00 why does vim return an error code if there was ever any error of any sort in the status line, and how can I stop that? 14:05:59 Chrisjfl (L11 TeGl) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:9) 14:07:42 03advil02 07[targeted-commands] * 0.26-a0-643-g65eb6cc: Skip digging for quiver 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65eb6cc67380 14:07:42 03advil02 07[targeted-commands] * 0.26-a0-644-g7378f1b: Improve autotargeting for various quivered spells 10(6 minutes ago, 7 files, 112+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7378f1b1c411 14:30:08 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1563 * 0.26-a0-637-g827209d: better to hook after muting 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/827209d36604 15:04:21 -!- cjm_ is now known as cjm 15:53:58 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:01:28 <09gammafunk> @PleasingFungus regarding what you said, it goes but that goes back to what we discussed originally about "lich form as a caster form"; that' wouldn't be a very interesting effect, since a lich does spell things given current lich form 16:01:45 <09gammafunk> so are you thinking lich form be overhauled and this also applies to the spell? 16:02:16 <12ebering> The last time we were spitballing lichmorg 16:02:33 <12ebering> the solution I liked was that Morg would be Fragile, turn you into a Lich on wield and untransform you on unwield 16:02:40 <12ebering> Fragile solves all the swap issues &c. 16:02:56 <10PleasingFungus> @gammafunk i guess i'm just very confused what you mean by "spell things" 16:03:48 <09gammafunk> what I'm saying is that current lich form mostly likes to cast spells (e.g. it has a necromancy enhancer...does it still give an int boost)? 16:04:19 <09gammafunk> and it tends to live in extended (since why else do you care about rtorment, and extended people who don't have good gods often cast a lot of spells) 16:04:28 <10PleasingFungus> i think that necro enhancer is the only spell thing it does 16:05:03 <10PleasingFungus> could be wrong 16:05:03 <10PleasingFungus> ??lichform 16:05:03 <04Cerebot> necromutation[1/2]: Level 8. Induces lichform: draining-brand unarmed, +6 AC, +40 MR, rC+, necromancy enhancer, and undead for all game purposes (NO POTIONS, rN+++, rPois, mutation immunity, torment immunity, no transformations, no berserk, dispel undead vulnerability, no regen spell or ddoor or borg or bloodsub). 16:05:03 <10PleasingFungus> lol @ the unarmed thing btw 16:05:03 <09gammafunk> yeah no longer gives int 16:05:16 <10PleasingFungus> that's a very long list of effects, exactly one of which is spell related (and only for some spells!) 16:05:22 <09gammafunk> that's sort of where the problem lies....what's exactly interesting about this form 16:05:57 <10PleasingFungus> giving bonuses in exchange for 'no potions' (and anti-undead/holy vuln) is moderately interesting, imo. is it interesting on a weapon? unclaer 16:06:09 <10PleasingFungus> frig, my typo is immortalized in irc... sigh 16:06:33 <09gammafunk> yeah that's what I'm dubious about, because for said weapon users this is really "gives your rtorment for extended", I think 16:06:58 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering "sacrifice weapon slot" in exchange for lichform? seems like the weapon would have to be vvvstrong, either in itself or in other bonuses - doesn't seem like lichform would be a great trade on its own 16:10:37 <12ebering> well the idea would be that it would keep pain brand, making it different from a staff of death in giving you pain + a necro enhancer? I'll admit that the issues with nmut were blackboxed when thinking about this. 16:10:49 <09gammafunk> that's tended to be the case with these discussions 16:11:00 <09gammafunk> maybe it's part of the "exists because flavor" problem! 16:11:11 <09gammafunk> love the flavor of the permanent lich idea 16:11:17 <09gammafunk> but still have no idea on what a lich should really do 16:11:50 <09gammafunk> I mean, liches as monsters are spellcasters; perhaps inspiration should be taken from that, and something about spells, spell usage, getting spells.... 16:12:05 <09gammafunk> ....oni proposal.... 16:13:46 <10PleasingFungus> lol 16:13:51 <10PleasingFungus> always the oni proposal 16:14:16 <10PleasingFungus> perhaps i'm blinkered. perhaps the oni proposal is what crawl needs 16:14:27 <10PleasingFungus> i still just want djinn 2.0 16:14:32 <09gammafunk> oh you didn't like oni? 16:15:01 <09gammafunk> it didn't feel right as a species proposal to me, but now that I think about it, it seems like it'd make more sense thematically as a lich "ancient memory" thing 16:16:11 <12ebering> I was enamored of Oni 16:17:57 <10PleasingFungus> as the Lootfeel Guy, it feels sad to make a castery race which is missing one of the big Loot Moments for casters (finding a useful spellbook) 16:18:02 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe that's looking at it from the wrong angle 16:18:12 <10PleasingFungus> and every level is its own special Spell Loot 16:18:18 <10PleasingFungus> in the same way that DS mutations are beloved 16:18:41 <10PleasingFungus> it also feels a lot like Veh spell gifts; not sure if that's a plus or a malus 16:19:40 <12ebering> I think its different in that you get to keep them, you get a limited spell library 16:20:13 <12ebering> Also the "train only spellcasting for your spells" aspect 16:34:35 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-635-g9520f50: Refactor monster death effects 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 44+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9520f50b25e2 16:34:35 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-636-gfd52b7e: Remove unused M_HYBRID flag 10(3 weeks ago, 4 files, 14+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fd52b7e0f380 16:34:35 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-637-g383da01: Refactor monster self-destruct code 10(28 hours ago, 4 files, 19+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/383da0171fe8 16:34:35 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-638-gcca6ad1: Remove Traps and Doors 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cca6ad1b57df 16:44:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I appreciate the resurgence in troll-y commit message titles like cca6ad1 :) 16:49:04 <10PleasingFungus> https://discordapp.com/channels/205277826788622337/205316046230388737/754802525223256095 16:49:13 <10PleasingFungus> hm, that link won't work in irc at all, will it 16:49:27 <10PleasingFungus> well, i'll just say thanks 🙂 16:51:51 <10PleasingFungus> i'm pretty proud of e420d36534 and especially 379118c2f too, tbh 17:03:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-638-gcca6ad1b57 (34) 18:25:10 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-638-gcca6ad1b57 (34) 20:52:57 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:21:52 lyndar (L8 TrHu) ERROR in 'spl-book.cc' at line 109: Unknown wand: 22 (D:6) 21:50:21 i think its strange the 'biggest downside if only downside' to lichform is shared with ozo's refr 22:09:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:06:45 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:23:09 <08wormsofcan> @gammafunk condenser vane tiles 23:23:10 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/754905045635694612/condenservane.png 23:23:10 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/754905048433295380/condenservane_empty.png 23:36:55 <10PleasingFungus> !!!!!! 23:36:57 <10PleasingFungus> it's the end of an era... 23:37:06 <10PleasingFungus> wormcan did you see the various amazing TODO sprites that people were marking 23:37:07 <10PleasingFungus> *making 23:37:47 <08wormsofcan> yes 23:38:26 <08wormsofcan> I need to replace those at some point, maybe 23:38:26 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/754908765345546301/IMG_20200912_205546709.png 23:38:26 <10PleasingFungus> i hadn't seen this one before 23:38:26 <10PleasingFungus> magical 23:38:26 <08wormsofcan> I haven't seen that one either 23:38:38 <10PleasingFungus> this is the one i'd seen before (for others' benefit) 23:38:38 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/754908939849826384/unknown.png 23:40:33 <08wormsofcan> that's not a condenser vane, that's dignity 23:40:41 <10PleasingFungus> ? 23:40:53 <08wormsofcan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-NH6TGZTcc 23:40:57 <10PleasingFungus> ha 23:42:20 <10PleasingFungus> oh, people were talking about monster spellbooks back when that was posted. The main problem with them (imo) is that the 'fun' of monster spellbooks is in identifying which spells a particular monster has and playing accordingly, sort of a Mastermind thing. But monsters in crawl don't live long enough for that to happen, or to matter if you do ID the spellbook. 23:42:40 <08wormsofcan> it's mostly relevant for monsters that have paralyze and banish 23:43:09 <08wormsofcan> just xv that ogre mage after it casts a spell to determine if you need to worry about paralysis 23:44:00 <08wormsofcan> or erolcha, I forget if she still has multiple books 23:44:00 <10PleasingFungus> she does, she has the wizard books 23:44:03 <10PleasingFungus> but again, idk how great that gameplay is... for the length that an ogre mage will stick around, is that meaningfully different from those monsters just having one spellbook that contains all the spells from all three spellbooks at a proportional weight? 23:44:07 <10PleasingFungus> think it's pretty close 23:44:44 if you know a potential banishment monster you always play as if they have it 23:44:45 <10PleasingFungus> a better take on spellbooks for crawl might be randomizing them per monster type per game, so in one game all of your wizards banish, in another game none do. unclear that this would be a good idea, but i think it's closer to having some perceptible impact on the game & creating variety 23:44:57 <10PleasingFungus> agreed, twelwe 23:45:55 <08wormsofcan> I had a similar idea wrt to gods or spells 23:46:05 <10PleasingFungus> i had a similar idea wrt consumables! 23:46:06 <08wormsofcan> for gods the game could silently prevent some gods from spawning 23:46:52 ET gives too many options. lugonu temples are great in this way 23:46:54 <08wormsofcan> and for spells you could have a similar thing, or possibly have multiple spells that have some overlap and only spawn one of them 23:47:11 <08wormsofcan> so if bolts still existed, only one bolt spell would spawn in a game 23:47:19 <10PleasingFungus> sure 23:47:34 <10PleasingFungus> i like the idea 23:48:42 <08wormsofcan> with spells there is a bit of an issue where the randomness effectively captures that kind of mechanic 23:48:43 <10PleasingFungus> the big problem that i see wrt gods is that they're in a somewhat awkward place right now where taking a god is midway between a strategic winrate-maximizing decision (do i take a less appropriate god that i found on d:2 or hold out for a better one?) and a conduct (oh, i want to try ely this game, i'll go looking for an altar!) 23:48:51 <08wormsofcan> where a spell won't spawn for most of the early/mid game 23:49:35 <08wormsofcan> I mean the problem exists with demonspawn/draconians and similar mechanics 23:49:35 <10PleasingFungus> the 'strategic choice' model of god is something we've been very slowly moving toward, but we're still a long way away from them being solidly there (imo), and knocking out some gods from a game will upset players who want to use them as conducts 23:49:36 <10PleasingFungus> sure, and players get upset about those too! 23:50:31 max altar generation in temple is like 16 23:50:35 thats crazy 23:50:57 <10PleasingFungus> it's a lot of gods. 23:51:01 <08wormsofcan> on a more micro level another thing that can be done with gods (which is sort of in the realm of randomgod) is having abilities be tweaked each game 23:51:04 some of my favorite games are when i coudln't find an altar until d:8 23:51:09 *altar i wanted 23:51:19 <10PleasingFungus> strategic tension is fun 🙂 23:51:28 <10PleasingFungus> @wormsofcan what would that look like? 23:51:39 piety cost fluctuation 23:51:57 <08wormsofcan> something like the second spell idea but applied to god abilities 23:52:03 your heroism is gonna cost a lot and maybe drain, but your finesse will be cheaper 23:52:20 <08wormsofcan> so trog will have a bunch of options that are in the same functionality as trog's hand and will pick a different one each game 23:52:59 maybe dig and lunge work again ?? 23:53:10 <08wormsofcan> for example one thing I floated around before is making bros in arm passive 23:53:34 <08wormsofcan> i.e. instead of an activated ability, once the player hits 5* trog will automatically "gift" bros while the player is berserk 23:53:36 someone rewrote wizard's castle in powershell: https://github.com/yourwishismine/Wizards-Castle-40th-Anniversary-PowerShell-Edition 23:53:43 <08wormsofcan> with an automatic gift when they go berserk 23:53:55 <08wormsofcan> and then each game you randomly get passive or active bros in arms 23:54:29 <08wormsofcan> oh I guess it would technically have to be at 4*, not 5 since that's where it happens normally 23:55:21 do you see these changes visible on altar inspection? 23:55:35 <08wormsofcan> yes it would have to be listed in the ^ screen 23:55:39 <08wormsofcan> which is where the complexity comes in 23:56:21 if this leads to a potential three tile serpent lash i'm all in 23:56:52 <08wormsofcan> the biggest issue is forcing the player to constantly learn what the entire pantheon does every game since you don't know the exact details 23:57:43 warp space in controlled, but corruption generates hostile demons 23:57:43 <08wormsofcan> this can partially be avoided if the abilities are similar enough that the differences aren't a deciding factor in god choice and gods are learned by a "broad strokes" approach 23:58:04 <08wormsofcan> controlled warp space is pretty op at 2* :v 23:58:26 controlled warp space exists already, its called serpent lash 23:58:54 open door - lash - move behind door - close door 23:59:06 monster doesnt know wtf