00:28:32 !lg * pa|delver 00:28:33 24404. tnor the Sneak (L1 PaDe), slain by an orc (a +0 short sword) on D:4 on 2020-07-07 03:34:24, with 7 points after 414 turns and 0:01:00. 00:28:38 !lg * pa|delver s=src 00:28:39 24404 games for * (pa || delver): 19799x cao, 3981x cdo, 471x rhf, 150x cko, 3x cpo 00:29:01 oh 00:29:10 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 00:29:11 !lg * palentonga|delver s=src 00:29:17 189 games for * (palentonga || delver): 185x cko, 4x cpo 00:29:32 thanks for adding cpo's logfiles... how did you find them?! 00:29:38 !lg * palentonga|delver cpo 00:29:39 4. ratboy the Covert (L10 GnDe of Ashenzari), splashed by a jelly's acid on D:9 on 2020-07-06 21:19:42, with 6232 points after 13043 turns and 0:39:35. 00:44:44 alexjurkiewicz: they're in the exact place you'd expect given the previous ones: https://github.com/crawl/sequell/blob/master/config/sources.yml#L214 00:45:03 I did test that they in fact existed before adding them 00:48:46 !lg * palentonga|delver cpo 00:48:46 4. ratboy the Covert (L10 GnDe of Ashenzari), splashed by a jelly's acid on D:9 on 2020-07-06 21:19:42, with 6232 points after 13043 turns and 0:39:35. 00:48:46 oops 00:49:03 oh that's nice, I didn't remember positional magic got sequelised 00:49:41 ebering: were you going to do a dev document writeup of the tournament? I was going to write a post mortem of the frontend work and issues to address for next time 00:49:57 I mean, as a markdown document on the dev wiki, rather than the feedback threads 00:51:06 one already exists, doesn't it? 00:51:24 unless you specifically mean a post-tournament writeup 00:52:24 I meant "here's what I think worked well, here's what didn't work so good, here are the priorities to address before next tournament" 00:59:15 yeah, there's the reddit thread, but I'm not sure if there was a plan for a subsequent writeup 00:59:48 would like to get the py23 conversion, the reindent, and the sane configuration stuff done maybe well before next t 01:10:50 on my list is: standardise how templates get data to display (query db themselves vs passed in as page args); fully migrate to datatables everywhere; increase information clarity & density 01:16:29 yeah I need to look into your datatables stuff and understand how that works 01:16:51 my ability to do anything in html/javascript/css these days is so limited 01:26:05 oh yeah, me too 01:27:24 which reminds me, the final thing I wanted to propose was changing the system so that instead of writing contentful pages, all the data is written as JSON files. Then other people can adapt the data themselves, like mdw did for their clan page 01:27:36 (maybe not "instead of". You could keep writing the existing pages as-is. But it would be nice for the tourney site to consume the same data that's published to users) 01:48:54 !kw delpal explbr=delpal 01:48:54 Defined keyword: delpal => explbr=delpal 02:10:29 floraline: I tried to rebuild the delpal branch from https://crawl.kelbi.org/rebuild/ and it started ok, but after maybe a minute, the session stopped and it doesn't seem that the rebuild completed 03:06:45 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 03:23:56 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-228-g29f007e (34) 03:32:17 Experimental (delpal) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-236-g04dcf7558d 03:39:50 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3407-g3b4e08a2a6 03:55:07 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-2836-gf12b245e01 05:11:46 -!- bh is now known as Guest27079 05:12:39 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:03:06 New branch created: pull/1481 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1481 06:03:06 03Nikolai Lavsky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1481 * 0.26-a0-227-g3788070: Fix a leftover scarf of cloud immunity (Yermak) 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/378807083804 07:58:21 New branch created: abil-no-hunger (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/abil-no-hunger 07:58:21 03advil02 07[abil-no-hunger] * 0.26-a0-225-g4e5ea30: Remove ability/evoke+hunger interactions 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 159+ 210-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e5ea303f0a9 08:45:11 The build passed. (abil-no-hunger - 4e5ea30 #13810 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705754868 09:02:30 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-229-g1848e9e: Add a note when acquiring items. 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1848e9ed2a90 09:02:30 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-230-g9ecf74a: Remove MSLOT_ALT_MISSILE on the next version bump. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ecf74a09752 09:02:30 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-231-g1728493: Improve ranged weapon warnings on the sidebar. 10(33 minutes ago, 4 files, 32+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/172849303ecf 09:02:30 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-232-gac5b586: Remove corpse/chunk types. 10(15 minutes ago, 6 files, 535+ 575-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac5b586cd31f 09:02:30 03wheals02 07* 0.26-a0-233-g3ccbfcd: Fix warning on console builds. 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ccbfcd5163c 09:11:30 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-34-gb70eed1: Fix full pregeneration (alexjurkiewicz) 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b70eed160d8e 09:11:30 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-35-ge67fde6: Conditionalize you.on_current_level in load_level 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e67fde654952 09:12:19 advil: if you're cherry-picking and getting 0.25.1 ready see 1481 09:12:46 03wheals02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-36-gcce024f: Add a note when acquiring items. 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cce024fa8ccf 09:14:07 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {advil} 07* 0.26-a0-234-gf801a56: Fix a leftover scarf of cloud immunity (Yermak) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f801a5604658 09:14:52 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-37-gb73750e: Fix a leftover scarf of cloud immunity (Yermak) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b73750e0fb8a 09:30:01 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-234-gf801a56046 (34) 09:46:53 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-235-g3bab7db: Remove troll extra extra hunger 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3bab7db1b13e 10:02:10 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-235-g3bab7db1b1 (34) 10:38:34 New branch created: pr-1369 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/pr-1369 10:38:34 03Peter Gerlagh02 {Aidan Holm} 07[pr-1369] * 0.26-a0-236-g114c0cd: Allow any floor to be annotated with ! 10(3 months ago, 7 files, 192+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/114c0cd479a8 10:42:10 it occurs to me that that pr is duplicating functionality; you can already annotate any level via the level map 10:42:34 but I don't really want to reject someone's PR after they've put that much time into it 10:57:53 hm, reading the commit description it sounds like that PR changes the behavior if you just use ! in normal play and makes annotating the current level more complicated? 10:58:47 I'm all in favor of making annotating other levels easier (I use the level map to do it quite frequently) but I don't think we should make the most common use of it more involved 10:58:57 (I should actually compile to see what the commit does though) 11:07:09 that is exactly what it does 11:07:26 you now need !. or ! to annotate the current level, instead of just ! 11:07:40 yeah, I just compiled it 11:07:57 I guess it is just one extra keypress and you are writing stuff anyway 11:08:54 and the ./ interface does feel fairly natural 11:09:09 so it seems fine to me 11:09:21 one concern that just occurred to me is whether the menu forces messages out of view that the user might have wanted to refer to when writing 11:13:19 yeah, possibly the list of branches doesn't need to be displayed all the time? 11:14:47 03PleasingFungus02 07[delpal] * 0.26-a0-237-g3a4ef3d: Palentonga: fix targeting (P0wermode) 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3a4ef3d775c1 11:15:14 e.g. display the branch codes in the ? menu instead 11:15:16 why not if you start typing and use any character but <>. it starts annotating the current level 11:16:28 well, currently that won't work given how the annotating other levels by branch code works 11:17:30 oh does it allow branch letters too? 11:17:54 it brings up the usual G list of branch letters yeah 11:18:25 maybe something like !! to get the proposed new behavior then, with ! + anything else its current behavior? 11:19:09 it does seem like a useful feature to add, the X[]! is actually pretty hard to find for most players 11:20:56 IDK if you care what I think but while I'd hate to see the default behaviour of ! change, every time I want X[]! I have to reason that there must be a way to do it and what keystrokes would it logically use 11:22:56 and you're even a console player, so you know what the difference between X and x is (which is more obscure on tiles) 11:23:41 I had some incomprehensible conversations with tiles players before I knew that was different 11:23:57 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.26-a0-236-g26cf38f: Inject custom rendering into viewwindow() 10(21 hours ago, 6 files, 94+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26cf38f501ec 11:23:57 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.26-a0-237-gf040af6: Remove needless use of viewwindow 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f040af64e767 11:24:33 yeah, having something that isn't X[]! or XG! would be very nice 11:25:35 advil: I honestly think it's fine if you have to do !. instead of !, my only minor complaint is it spewing the list of branch codes out each time 11:26:04 spewing is consistent with travel though 11:26:08 and in particular I like removing the weirdness with current behavior depending on whether you are on top of stairs 11:26:22 well, G is mostly used for interlevel travel 11:26:29 ! mostly isn't used for interlevel stuff 11:26:32 !! sounded good to me for the new behaviour 11:27:12 well, I like the !> and !< parts of the new behavior too 11:27:21 I woludn't want to have to do !!> or whatever 11:27:52 basically I like !. !> !< being what you do for the current level and the two adjacent levels 11:27:57 !! for spew? 11:28:00 Experimental (delpal) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-237-g3a4ef3d775 11:30:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[delpal] * 0.26-a0-238-ga28e0c9: Palentonga: staticify 10(19 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a28e0c9298d7 11:35:41 I guess at least some people now do '!!' for "add warning to current level" :-/ 11:36:41 04Build failed for 08delpal @ 3a4ef3d7 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160792555 11:38:01 Since ! previously brought up a text field (with an occasional stair prompt) in principle any keystroke following ! might be intended as part of the message 11:38:46 i don't think we have to keep key-for-key compatibility if there's a better way available 11:39:02 I was just typingn that but not as eloquently 11:39:06 (says the dev who wanted to change scrolls from ? to : so we could have a single key for 'help') 11:39:21 :) 11:40:27 so a short prompt saying .//SOMEKEYFORSPEW 11:42:11 03advil02 07[abil-no-hunger] * 0.26-a0-225-g50c2ccc: Remove ability/evoke+hunger interactions 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 159+ 210-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50c2ccca61e8 11:42:11 03advil02 07[abil-no-hunger] * 0.26-a0-226-g19fff73: Reword DD heal cost for no hungering 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19fff73b97f7 11:42:13 03PleasingFungus02 07[delpal] * 0.26-a0-239-g33892eb: Palentonga: fix TAG_MAJOR_VERSION=35 10(57 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33892ebded3d 11:44:28 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-237-gf040af64e7 (34) 12:00:05 The build passed. (pr-1369 - 114c0cd #13817 : Peter Gerlagh): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705815731 12:10:31 04Build failed for 08delpal @ a28e0c92 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160807611 12:15:45 hm, does anyone know if there's a reason old bits in abflag are reserved? It doesn't appear that they are serialized 12:18:06 04Build failed for 08delpal @ 33892ebd 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160819401 12:27:00 03advil02 07[abil-no-hunger] * 0.26-a0-227-g8900db0: Further clean up abil flags, light rewording 10(76 seconds ago, 1 file, 15+ 36-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8900db0edbda 12:36:01 someone pls tell me if I'm making a terrible mistake removing those flags 12:38:36 maybe people just kept them so that the diffs are more readable 12:38:38 03advil02 07[abil-no-hunger] * 0.26-a0-228-g02083f1: Remove one more unused abil flag 10(48 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/02083f15f4c3 12:39:22 Yeah, I seem to ...hrm 12:39:36 there was something weird about Ru and ability flags 12:39:48 like it made me worried that they could get marshalled under Ru 12:40:08 maybe that was not ability flags, but another type of flags 12:40:13 let me see if I can find it 12:46:59 meta comment: you.props is terrible for compatibility 12:47:07 yeah 12:49:24 ah, you.props[AVAILABLE_SAC_KEY] does marshall ability_type 12:49:27 but not ability flags 12:49:32 that's what I was thinking of 12:50:32 counterpoint, you.props is great for compatibility because it just requires fixing stuff in a hashtable 12:55:39 the additional flexibility is certainly good 12:55:39 is there a canonical way to iterate over all monsters? 12:56:08 monster_iterator? 12:56:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] is now known as RonJeremy 12:56:19 by which i mean not needing to worry about using the same number of bytes etc 12:56:31 excellent thank you 12:56:48 !lg gowby -log 12:56:49 1198. gowby, XL12 BaSk, T:17782: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/gowby/morgue-gowby-20200707-160536.txt 12:57:16 gamma just had to ban that person because they were so angry in ##crawl, but the game is relevant for calibrating hunger probably 12:57:54 yeah, does seem like there are some legitimate hunger issues with that game 13:01:15 I guess the other related issue is that hungering is by aut 13:01:23 so it's probably not an accident that we're seeing this on a ba 13:01:31 oh, true 13:02:09 wonder if it's really bad for Naga 13:04:42 The build failed. (delpal - 33892eb #13821 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705838556 13:04:57 so I haven't really been following what is happening with hunger in trunk, but I gather that chunk-eating was removed and that now people are starving? 13:05:02 yes 13:05:55 I sort of feel like trying to calibrate hunger now is sort of missing the point of removing chunk-eating 13:06:42 and that the correct response is to go ahead and remove hunger/eating (or revert and bring back chunk-eating) 13:07:01 -!- hayenne_ is now known as hayenne 13:07:15 unless we actually want starvation to be a major part of the game, which would be a weird direction for crawl to go in IMO 13:07:41 Stable (0.25) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25.0-37-gb73750e 13:07:49 chunk-eating was probably one of the better ways of keeping starvation from being a major part of the game 13:08:11 (aside from just removing food/eating/hunger altogether) 13:08:24 I'm loath to remove hunger outright without some kind of forward progress clock for most species 13:08:32 (stronger than piety decay) 13:10:44 like when I saw that chunk-eating was removed, my assumption was that it was intended as a step towards removing all eating 13:11:23 it's certainly possible to multiply ration generation by a lot, have more guaranteed rations (e.g. start everyone with a bunch), etc 13:12:13 it was indeed intended as a step towards removing eating 13:12:18 but it feels like it is a lot of wasted work if we are just going to remove eating in another version or so 13:13:45 -!- cjm_ is now known as cjm 13:14:16 I was sort of guessing that the hope was that spell hunger would be the thing applying the most pressure and that the balance would be relatively unchanged now 13:14:31 but it has been revealed that hungering in crawl is weird 13:15:22 That was my hope; I was a bit uncertain about ability hunger and that might help 13:15:36 but it appears the low-end of ration rolling is lower than I thought in the early/midgame 13:15:47 even with objstat's variance numbers 13:17:00 it was a reasonable experiment 13:17:44 I just don't think it's worth spending too much time trying to balance starvation issues 13:18:08 but the flavorful food vaults 13:18:20 unless "rations are the only food" is the actual desired situation we want to have long-term 13:19:00 in the order of things I would prefer: (a better clock not tied to items) > (rations are the only food and that is the clock) > chunks and rations 13:19:12 fwiw, I really don't think anything major would break if hunger was just removed right now with no attempt at increasing/creating other progress clocks 13:19:49 ebering: for your middle term in that inequality, does that imply removing piety decay? 13:20:00 hm no it does not 13:20:05 ebering: why do you prefer "finding items" over "finding monsters and killing them" as clocks go? 13:20:19 finding items is just always going to have more variance without serious hacking 13:20:39 I was actually wondering about a food count that just increases with each kill, it feels a bit artificial but is the abstracted version of chunks 13:20:40 and finding monsters and killing them is behavior we would like to encourage 13:21:10 advil: yeah, I would prefer abstract food over most of these suggestions 13:21:11 advil's idea just thrown out fits into the top bracket of my inequality 13:21:39 but also I think I would prefer just removing food and coming up with other clock ideas later 13:21:45 since I don't think anything would break 13:22:05 in terms of keeping trunk playable that seems like a good goto short term 13:23:15 it might actually be kinda tricky to implement though 13:23:17 (a clock idea I've put forth in the past is essentially draining - basically if you sit around not killing stuff and/or exploring for a long time then you start getting more and more drained 13:23:19 ) 13:23:25 just in the sense that removing old systems from crawl is usually harder than it seems like it's going to be 13:23:27 yeah, xp decay 13:23:37 I was going to implement that back in like 0.22 or so 13:23:43 but a few people spoke out against it 13:23:51 Lasty had concerns it would penalize travel too much 13:23:51 (so like abstract food, but without instadeath and without food flavor so that exploration would help too) 13:23:57 the implementation details are tricky 13:24:06 well, I wanted to have it be an incredibly slow clock 13:24:21 I don't think there's any need for a fast clock 13:24:26 right 13:24:34 ideally the clock would not be visible at all in normal gameplay 13:25:05 great thing about it is that it works with undead species 13:25:15 so no more scumming with Mu/Vp 13:25:37 and only show up when people start having smart ideas like resting on each level for 50k turns upon entering it to have all the wandering monsters come to them 13:26:07 or smart ideas like xomscumming by resting for a million turns in temple 13:26:20 I really don't see any reason to have a more intrusive clock 13:26:56 traveling across the dungeon from anywhere to anywhere is closer to 1000 turns max iirc 13:27:40 so if you went back and forth 20 times in a row, maybe you would get a little drained 13:27:52 but I would definitely not want it to "penalize travel" 13:28:46 if it's that slow, would you be penalized at all for spending say 1-2k turns each level sitting on stairs, waiting for awake monsters to find you? 13:28:51 it would go away quickly if you start exploring/killing things too - the idea is for it to be a reminder to people that they shouldn't rest on one level for 20k turns, not to be a "gotcha" 13:28:51 well, given all this it seems safe to push this abil branch, it sounds downright conservative now :D 13:29:28 gammafunk: not by this, but I don't think any reasonable clock is going to penalize that 13:29:58 without also doing the "penalize travel" thing that we don't want to do 13:30:27 obviously the solution is to remove backtracking through levels entirely! 13:30:33 like piety decay is the only thing stopping that currently (well, prior to chunk removal) and doesn't affect all characters 13:31:55 anyway I think people who really care about having a forward progress clock should try to come up with a clear description of the behavior that they are trying to punish along with the behavior that they are not trying to punish 13:32:34 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-238-g4ff2f76: Remove ability/evoke+hunger interactions 10(6 hours ago, 3 files, 159+ 210-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4ff2f76d1075 13:32:34 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-239-g2ea7b29: Reword DD heal cost for no hungering 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ea7b29654ae 13:32:34 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-240-gb5465dc: Further clean up abil flags, light rewording 10(67 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 36-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5465dcac657 13:32:34 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-241-gd0a5a51: Remove one more unused abil flag 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0a5a5182f7a 13:32:58 for me personally, the behavior I want to punish is just the really excessive resting for xomscumming or for wandering monsters 13:33:00 partly because spamming 5 can cause server load 13:33:48 oops, meant to reword that DD commit title 13:33:50 oh well 13:33:57 and I don't want to punish much of anything else because I think ctrl-f for items or going back to vaults that you annotated on earlier levels is a good feature in crawl 13:34:03 in a way, you did reword it 13:34:57 (if anything, I think piety decay punishing these things isn't great) 13:35:24 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-237-gf040af6 (34) 13:35:25 yeah elliptic, resting to fight wandering monsters safely is the things I'm most interested in preventing, but you mentioned that probably no progress clock can prevent that? 13:35:38 I guess you mean over longer timescales 13:35:43 well, it's a matter of scale 13:35:46 not just 1-2k turns 13:35:48 right 13:36:46 like you do actually need to rest a huge amount of time to make monsters come to you in most level layouts I think 13:37:49 and the gain from doing this is sort of hard to judge 13:38:29 depends to some extent on character and on exactly what you are doing 13:41:04 like mummies or vampires of gods without piety decay can already do this if they want and it isn't clear to me (a) that anyone does this (b) that it's an issue 13:41:33 monsters can still pick up wands and stuff that the player hasn't seen, right? 13:42:01 I sort of assume this is still in because sometimes a regular orc that doesn't seem to be from a vault has a wand 13:42:23 if so, that by itself is probably enough to make this a bad strategy 13:42:24 elliptic: yes, monsters can still pick up unseen items 13:44:32 but what if you have a LOS-range ability that can deal with said orc 13:44:55 I could agree that it's dependent on the character, but surely it's optimal for some characters 13:45:17 an EE with LRD, for example 13:45:29 I mean, monsters that don't die to a single LRD exist 13:46:37 like unless you can literally guaranteed one-shot any monster that could generate on the level, I'm not buying this argument 13:47:20 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-241-gd0a5a5182f (34) 13:47:27 04Build failed for 08master @ d0a5a518 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160933538 13:49:31 I think it's certainly the case that some situations exist where resting in one place for 1k turns is a good strategy, but I think they might be rarer than one would think and also that fully ruling this out with some sort of clock is going to be really hard (and certainly food doesn't currently do this) 13:49:31 hm, apt-get failure 13:50:09 if we get really concerned about this sort of thing, possibly the correct solution is some sort of monster behavior change - like monsters stop moving after some number of turns of wandering (but stay awake) 13:50:27 heh, yeah 13:50:35 though that has its own issues 13:50:42 well, right, how to deal with noise I guess 13:50:50 eh, not really 13:51:20 making noise followed by waiting for monsters to come to you is always going to be something you can do, but always has its own drawbacks (many monsters coming towards you at once) 13:51:48 the issue is more that you might actually want monsters to stop wandering around, so you rest for a bit at the start of each level to make monsters wander less 13:51:52 and then explore normally 13:54:22 there are other possible changes to monster behavior too (e.g. at some point monsters stop moving, but they are more alert after they do that so they are more likely to see you instantly when you enter sight etc), but my point is more that I think monster wandering isn't necessarily the sort of thing that clocks should be aimed at 13:55:55 and we should be more concerned about people holding down 5 to rest for 100k turns whenever they see a shiny cloud generator and want to watch it move and stuff like that :P 13:56:15 (and xomscumming, though that could certainly be addressed with xom changes of some sort) 13:57:22 (and to be clear, I don't think having a clock that stops these things is a big deal or urgent given that this is already something that some characters can do) 13:57:56 The build passed. (abil-no-hunger - 02083f1 #13824 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705857208 14:02:01 probably limiting cloud gen and the other animation-over-turn things can be addressed directly without having an overall gameplay clock 14:03:10 I guess many would feel that it lessens the role playing feeling if there's no gameplay-limiting clock you'd ever realistically hit 14:04:13 video games just have to have some sort of countdown timer, that's just how these things work! 14:07:30 good thing I set aside some time to set up advil's testing container and instead used it all to discuss 10 different unrelated, weird aspects of crawl in 3 different places 14:11:37 You gotta work on your multitasking 14:11:49 New branch created: nerf-skellingtons (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/nerf-skellingtons 14:11:49 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-242-g77e5dee: Timeout FAKE_ABJURATION allies on level change 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77e5dee808c3 14:11:49 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-243-ga0829ad: Nerf Animate Skeleton and Animate Dead 10(89 minutes ago, 7 files, 53+ 80-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0829ad14635 14:11:49 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-244-g1400a72: Adjust Death Channel 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 20+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1400a7245f73 14:11:49 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-245-gda92dcd: Reduce the duration of Infestation scarabs 10(78 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da92dcdd7bc0 14:12:12 chei 14:12:12 that was supposed to be a dunk 14:12:12 chei why 14:12:17 theree it is 14:12:48 hm, the commit message in a0829ad is missing some info 14:13:14 it also makes animate skeleton work on not the cell you're standinng on (still one skeleton per cast) 14:25:21 04Build failed for 08master @ d0a5a518 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160933538 14:26:29 "Unable to connect to azure.archive.ubuntu.com" 14:26:30 sad 14:35:30 03PleasingFungus02 07[delpal] * 0.26-a0-240-gb7f442f: Palentonga: fix charge bonus (ebering) 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7f442f316dd 14:35:57 Micro$oft 14:51:43 one question regarding potential food removal 14:51:47 how would that work with ghouls 14:51:52 04Build failed for 08delpal @ b7f442f3 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/160995510 15:01:29 -!- krator44-- is now known as krator44 15:02:03 I would guess that gh would be effectively unchanged from right now, though it is vexing how much code that would prevent us from removing 15:21:13 The build is still failing. (delpal - b7f442f #13827 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705894755 15:26:02 -!- aidanh_ is now known as aidanh 16:12:54 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron 16:24:52 03Nicholas Feinberg02 07[delpal] * 0.26-a0-241-g4e6e3e9: Fix amulet of the acrobat 10(30 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e6e3e941dcf 16:25:31 03Nicholas Feinberg02 07* 0.26-a0-242-gb77f264: Fix amulet of the acrobat 10(68 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b77f26482873 16:32:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-242-gb77f264828 (34) 16:45:27 04Build failed for 08delpal @ 4e6e3e94 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/161102767 17:04:33 The build is still failing. (delpal - 4e6e3e9 #13828 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705936864 17:07:25 failures abound 17:14:51 I feel good about https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/nerf-skellingtons but I'd appreciate another pair of dev-eyes on the gameplay side 17:43:54 So there's a monster in sprint that wants "Summon Swarm" which is a long removed spell; it just ends up with no spell in that slot, so I deleted it. (Fork commit here): https://github.com/Bcadren/crawl/commit/258681a74642c03e0bbf96fd00850f5c403f2442 Y'all should do the same in the name of cleanliness or it'll cause issues whenever version bump 17:43:54 happens? Since instead of having a removed spell it'd then have an undefined spell. (Y'all could also change the spell it has; I just didn't bother since I don't really actively support fork-sprint). 17:50:53 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-243-g6f375c6: Fix some ldoc formatting 10(44 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f375c69368a 17:50:53 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-244-g083ca26: Add two new lua hooks for abilities and spellcasting 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 97+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/083ca260ace3 18:02:19 is there ever any reason for a vault corpse to *not* be delayed decay? 18:02:23 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-244-g083ca260ac (34) 18:03:22 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-245-g86c4727: Timeout FAKE_ABJURATION allies on level change 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86c47270169a 18:03:22 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-246-g0b249a2: Nerf Animate Skeleton and Animate Dead 10(5 hours ago, 7 files, 53+ 80-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b249a2b6e67 18:03:22 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-247-gf80d56e: Adjust Death Channel 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 20+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f80d56e03d0a 18:03:22 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-248-gda65caf: Reduce the duration of Infestation scarabs 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da65caf37a57 18:23:33 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-244-g083ca260ac (34) 18:42:56 Is there something I can add to my rcfile to warn me that I have a fixed seed setting? 18:43:55 Oh I also get Warning: Full pregeneration is not allowed on this build of crawl. (~/.crawlrc:118) 19:54:06 I maintain the (unofficial) build script for an OS. * Need to build contribs: lua/src. make[1]: *** contrib: No such file or directory. Stop. make: *** [Makefile:1679: .contrib-libs] Error 2 19:56:00 "an OS"? 19:56:44 can you pastebin the full output of make? 19:58:48 on the face of it it looks like you are building in a repo without submodules, or you are building from some version of the source that doesn't have `contrib`? 19:59:38 this directory needs to exist or the build needs to use all system deps: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master/crawl-ref/source/contrib 20:01:56 it's a BSD 20:02:16 ? 20:06:16 did you read the install documentation? Was something unclear to you? It could be improved if so 20:06:38 actually, it would be nice for INSTALL.md to go into the base directory, so it's more discoverable 20:22:17 Stable (0.25) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25.0-37-gb73750e0fb 20:26:41 Should I just put the thing I said about Fedhas sprint in mantis? 20:46:43 not BSD Unix; Slackware GNU/Linux. yes, I am building from stone_soup-0.25.0-nodeps.tar.xz, which doesn't have contrib/ 20:50:16 you need all the dependencies listed in INSTALL.md then 20:51:11 is there a command-line markdown browser? 20:51:50 about food removal and ghouls. They could be changed to use devour logic like hydra, which would keep their eating flavour but remove chunks 20:52:10 WizardDarwin: markdown is designed to be readable as plain text. But you can convert to other formats using pandoc 20:52:41 it's horrible as plain-text compared to old-style, properly-formatted README.TXT 20:53:07 yes 20:54:51 the output of pandoc's conversion to plain text seems pretty good, except it doesn't add pretty formatting for headings so they are easy to overlook 20:55:22 seems fine as plain text 20:55:53 maybe use an editor with md syntax highlighting? 20:57:05 i did some reinstalls last month and just had to reinstall a dependency... that was it... 20:57:33 WizardDarwin: Also I really would pastebin the entire output from make 20:57:46 it might just be that lua 5.1 is pretty old so not a dependency for anything else, so you wouldn't have had cause to reinstall it 20:58:01 well, not ... anything else is too strong 20:58:18 but most likely if you are reinstalling lua without specifically doing it for crawl you'd get a different version than 5.1 20:59:14 i meant entire OS reinstalls... 20:59:53 The Oklob Plant Summoner in Fedhas Sprint has a Removed Spell 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12308 by bcadren 21:00:35 i don't know; Angband/ToME2 might use it, unless they removed it years ago. Slackware has lua 5.2 unofficially now anyway... 21:11:50 well I might get the new make log in some minutes, depending how long this takes... much longer than earlier versions and Linley's Dungeon Crawl... is it not using my MAKEFLAGS=-j31? 21:13:01 someone else did the FreeBSD port (don't know about other *BSD) but looks like they haven't updated it in over a year... 21:16:16 not sure what you mean by MAKEFLAGS there. If you want to set the number of make jobs, you can pass it as an argument like `make -j31` 21:18:08 that's what MAKEFLAGS does 21:19:34 are you running the DCSS compilation from inside another makefile? 21:21:32 I guess if you are only seeing one cc process at a time, there's a bug in what you pass to DCSS. -j is respected fine 21:21:50 i will be running it in a build script now that I think it'll compile right... 21:22:59 but it's not a Makefile... it just uses your Makefile and does other things before and after... 21:24:16 gotcha. MAKEFLAGS is intended for use when invoking make within make. It has special handling for -j. Perhaps something buggy is happening 21:24:43 I suggest you switch from `MAKEFLAGS=... make` to `make ...` 21:24:50 as your invocation 21:25:20 WizardDarwin: we'll be able to help you much more rapidly if you could tell us exactly what platform you're on and what you're invoking; build processes outside of INSTALL.md aren't super well supported but we try 21:27:56 good; OS stated 28 lines up. No problem at this point; apparently only was an error of not reinstalling a dependency after entire OS reinstall... over 99.999% chance this'll compile 21:28:14 oh, I see, Slackware 21:31:48 that's Slackware GNU/Linux 21:38:59 its creator didn't add the term GNU, but should, even more than Linux. Anyway, the build worked; thanks for reminders 21:43:07 advil: I think I've got the most out of the tournament feedback pin, I'd be fine if you switched it to the palentonga delver one 22:12:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:41:56 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-246-gef8ed0b: Nerf Animate Skeleton and Animate Dead 10(10 hours ago, 7 files, 53+ 80-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef8ed0b0f21d 22:41:56 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-247-g26e00d9: Adjust Death Channel 10(9 hours ago, 3 files, 20+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26e00d915762 22:41:56 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-248-gefd3556: Reduce the duration of Infestation scarabs 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efd35565e485 22:41:56 03ebering02 07[nerf-skellingtons] * 0.26-a0-249-g7253cd1: Give Necromancers "corpse sense" 10(13 minutes ago, 3 files, 37+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7253cd193c4c 22:42:31 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-245-g86c4727: Timeout FAKE_ABJURATION allies on level change 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86c47270169a 22:42:31 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-246-gef8ed0b: Nerf Animate Skeleton and Animate Dead 10(10 hours ago, 7 files, 53+ 80-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef8ed0b0f21d 22:42:31 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-247-g26e00d9: Adjust Death Channel 10(9 hours ago, 3 files, 20+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26e00d915762 22:42:31 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-248-gefd3556: Reduce the duration of Infestation scarabs 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efd35565e485 22:42:31 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-249-g7253cd1: Give Necromancers "corpse sense" 10(14 minutes ago, 3 files, 37+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7253cd193c4c 22:49:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-249-g7253cd193c (34) 22:50:28 woop woop! s/peak/peek/ though 23:03:37 oh well 23:34:04 is there any stepdown function in crawl which is not as steep a stepdown as stepdown()? 23:34:35 by not as steep do you mean not a logarithm? 23:35:41 yeah. maybe halfway between linear and log 23:35:54 I was looking for a stepdown function for the sword of power's scaling on current hitpoints 23:37:36 TBH, linear is probably fine 23:43:27 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1417 * 0.26-a0-228-g16eaba6: Rework the Sword of Power 10(16 hours ago, 3 files, 5+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16eaba66b008