00:00:11 <aidanh> alexjurkiewicz, good catch, but you should still use partition; it handles the case when there's no space in the cookie
00:02:39 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-700-g7f8a7979f0 (34)
00:40:20 <alexjurkiewicz> doh
00:42:25 <Cheibriados> 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1253 * 0.25-a0-711-g4143bc5: Fix cookie parsing 10(69 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4143bc5d5179
01:22:06 <alexjurkiewicz> doh
01:22:08 <alexjurkiewicz> oops
01:58:45 <gammafunk> doh???
01:58:45 <Sequell> <|amethyst> doh
03:12:03 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-700-g7f8a797 (34)
03:31:08 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2999-g24818c1c7b
10:32:46 <advil> I wonder if we should consider something like moving tavern off of cdo?
10:33:17 <advil> it's really not doing us any favors to have the only moderated / official dcss space semi-closed for long stretches
10:45:54 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1337 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1337
10:45:55 <Cheibriados> 03Nikolai Lavsky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1337 * 0.25-a0-698-gb73c826: Fix stash search menu not showing tiles for some dungeon features 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b73c826b8a4c
11:00:47 <aidanh> advil: in terms of moving to a new server, or moving to a new auth / login system?
11:02:25 <aidanh> I'd probably be in favour of the former, and for the latter, well... sso 2020?
12:07:06 <advil> moving to a new server
12:07:37 <advil> (which would probably entail a new auth system)
12:08:42 <advil> I mean doing this seems like a huge and painful project (at least if user accounts / post history were migrated), so I can't say I'm excited about it
12:30:49 <aidanh> huge and painful, most likely, but moving might make incremental improvements feasible
12:31:57 <aidanh> what's the current auth system? i had a sneaking suspicion tavern and mantis both used a shared database, not sure how accurate that is
12:34:07 <gammafunk> they do use a shared auth system, yeah
12:34:49 <gammafunk> napkin could give you some further details
13:15:37 <Henzell> Stable (0.20) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20.2-0-g0475c4d
13:22:19 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25-a0-700-g7f8a797 (34)
15:20:30 <Bcadren> Would there be a way to query how many people have gotten the (BcadrenCrawl unique) Cracked Rune? an !lm that checks a fork, !lg that checks fork? IDK how those utilities work.
15:23:31 <Pinkbeast> Bcadren: You can download the logfiles yourself and grep them
15:25:10 <Bcadren> oof. suppose that's true? not sure how to download a server's entire morgue though
15:26:41 <Pinkbeast> You don't need all the morgues, just the milestones file
15:32:08 <Cheibriados> 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-701-gb30f108: Add a missing TAG_MAJOR_VERSION check 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b30f108f014a
15:32:55 <Bcadren> Do you know where that is? https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/
15:33:19 <Bcadren> I've pulled individual morgues for crash logs before, but otherwise I'm not sure how to navigate the online folder
15:33:21 <|amethyst> https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/meta/bcadrencrawl/milestones
15:34:34 <Bcadren> wow what a file.
15:35:31 <|amethyst> you can download that and  grep 'cracked rune' milestones
15:35:35 <|amethyst> I see five
15:35:54 <|amethyst> out of 601 total runes
15:38:46 <Bcadren> Yep. Gorgo, Holysushi x2, Winsalot, CanofBees. 4 people have gotten the cracked rune.
15:42:05 <Bcadren> Cracked Rune replaces slimy when you kill TRJ...part of the slime rework I did. That's semi-recent in the span of how long the fork's been around (like a month or so ago).
15:47:49 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-701-gb30f108f01 (34)
15:49:02 -!- aidanh_ is now known as aidanh
17:51:35 <alexjurkiewicz> advil: aidanh: I would happily pay the cost of running a discourse server for DCSS
17:52:05 <alexjurkiewicz> I agree that migrating existing content would be extremely painful so I would vote "just don't do that". It's not like there's a wealth of referenced knowledge on tavern
17:52:28 <ebering> you'd have us forget berder's chicken thread?
17:52:29 <advil> yeah I was thinking about discourse, though I have kind of mixed feelings about the ui
17:52:47 <advil> but something not phpbb
17:53:04 <alexjurkiewicz> I looked into the shared auth a while ago when trying to migrate the crawl wiki to CDO. iirc the user data all lives in mantis, and phpbb has a php extension written to SELECT into that table and munge the data to what phpbb expects
17:53:20 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah. Discourse is not my favourite. But it's really the only modern choice for "forum software"
17:53:44 <alexjurkiewicz> I suppose the alternative is to go all-in on reddit or another "managed" service
17:55:03 <advil> reddit would need to be moderated for me to be ok with that
17:55:57 <advil> like, with rules and everything
17:59:39 <alexjurkiewicz> I'm keen to work on this however possible fwiw. I think it's important for dcss community health
17:59:58 <alexjurkiewicz> if dev team like the idea of migrating to discourse I can spin up a test instance whenever
18:00:01 <advil> the only thing about starting fresh is that I'm not sure what uptake there would be
18:00:15 <advil> I was wondering about at least importing user info from recently active tavern users
18:02:00 <alexjurkiewicz> I think 'forgot password' flow is harder than 'use one of the 100 SSO providers discourse supports' for new users
18:05:52 <gammafunk> we'd definitely want to keep taverns rules
18:23:52 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-701-gb30f108f01 (34)
18:30:09 <kate-> discourse does seem like it'd be an improvement over phpbb to me, although i guess i wouldn't expect a new official forum to be hugely active, judging from how slow tavern is these days?
18:30:56 <kate-> maybe that's because of the closed registration stuff but i don't know that i'd expect there to be a ton more activity even if it were open
18:34:23 <floraline> i'm happy that the forum is considered worth maintaining at all, so many communities have moved to things like discord
18:40:00 <kate-> yeah, from what i gather the general roguelikes discord is probably one of the more active places for crawl talk these days? but yeah, i would definitely want anything that's considered "official" to be strongly moderated (which is much easier for lower-traffic places like the forums and irc at least!)
18:41:09 <gammafunk> right
18:41:12 <floraline> +1 to that
18:42:50 <gammafunk> the worst two community trolls currently run rampant on the reddit and one of them does likewise on the CXC discord, but both are banned from the roguelikes discord (and from a bunch of other discords)
18:43:09 <gammafunk> I think it's important that any "official" platform has strong enough moderation to keep people like that out
18:43:47 <gammafunk> thankully the roguelikes discord people are reasonably proactive about moderation and have non-harassment rules
18:47:21 <kate-> ah that's good to hear yeah, i wasn't sure how that was handled on the roguelikes discord so had never ended up joining it
18:47:53 <kate-> but yeah i'd be happy to
18:48:30 <gammafunk> ??roguelikes[3
18:48:31 <Sequell> roguelikes discord[1/1]: The Reddit /r/roguelikes Discord server has a #dcss channel. You can join here: https://discord.gg/9uVbTYH
18:48:33 <kate-> (oops hit enter early) continue moderating a hypothetical new forum if that ended up happening
18:48:38 <gammafunk> ah, yep
18:48:42 <gammafunk> as would I
18:51:27 <ebering> reddit comments are a pain to finnd new discussion in if things go on long enough, because of sorting only applying to top level
18:51:39 <ebering> getting feedback was much easier on tavern re positional magic
18:51:51 <ebering> I would prefer a forum over reddit
18:52:23 <gammafunk> yeah, agree that forum is better for long-form discussion by far
18:53:59 <gammafunk> btw, since you're both here, I was thinking of making Absolute Zero go to fixed ranged 5 and having noise scale down with spellpower, as it did originally
18:54:11 <gammafunk> the spell feels a bit "cheap" when you get it to max range
18:54:21 <gammafunk> hellmonk seems to support the idea of lower range as well
18:54:31 <ebering> that sounds better practically, I have a BaIE going that I will try to get it with
18:54:35 <ebering> though that BaIE went kiku
18:54:51 <gammafunk> gotta hope for that lucky book of annihilations
18:56:18 <kate-> i've not managed to try it yet but i still wouldn't be super concerned about it being too strong i guess, compared to other L9 spells
18:57:11 <gammafunk> yeah, I think it's more of a "feel" thing
18:58:14 <kate-> but fixed range over variable range sounds reasonable, yeah - variable range does have a little weirdness with spellpower breakpoints too
18:59:53 <kate-> i suppose noise scaling would probably want to be fairly aggressive to make it desirable enough? (although i remember the initial commit already did have it be extremely loud to start with)
19:00:14 <gammafunk> yes, starting at 40
19:00:21 <gammafunk> I think it did scale all the way down to silent
19:06:26 <advil> kate- I'm pretty sure that forum has been hugely impacted by registration closure, this last round is especially noticeable as someone who browses by "active topics"
19:06:44 <advil> obv it's hard to know what the counterfactual no-registration-closure would be like
19:09:57 <advil> I recently tracked down the history, iirc it was closed something like late 2017 (maybe early 2018)-18, open from some time in late 2018 - sept 2019, closed since then
19:10:06 <advil> so registration closed more often than not over the last 3 years
19:12:43 <advil> don't mean to blame anyone, I have no doubt that it's super annoying to deal with
19:14:44 <gammafunk> yeah, form traffic over that time does feel lower over last few years even taking into account that registrations have periodically been open
19:14:50 <gammafunk> I do agree that any forum would always be somewhat low traffic
19:15:37 <gammafunk> s/form/forum/
19:15:59 <gammafunk> unless we increase our player base by two or three fold, that is!
19:16:21 <gammafunk> obviously we need to do something as big as implementing WebTiles back in 0.9; maybe time for VR crawl
19:17:09 <gammafunk> it brought back Half Life, after all
19:17:09 <advil> reimplement in the alyx level editor
19:17:15 <gammafunk> mmm 3-d moon base
19:18:30 <alexjurkiewicz> imagine being savaged by a three dimensional cyan 't'
19:21:37 <advil> re migrating user info, one concern would be that (based on new server experience) we could expect to see bad actors claiming well-known usernames
19:21:59 <advil> so migrating at least some user info would mitigate that
19:22:35 <advil> (it is facts like this that make me despair about the community at times)
19:22:35 <gammafunk> right, although since we have an on-file email for all current tavern users, is that actually too bad?
19:22:47 <gammafunk> obviously if the original person is no longer around
19:23:09 <gammafunk> I guess it's more work if someone does that as new service is launched
20:02:55 <alexjurkiewicz> does discourse require unique usernames? I thought it was like modern gaming services where you get username#1234
20:05:15 <alexjurkiewicz> it does require unique usernames. Anyway I guess you can easily add a rule "you can claim your old username" and manually remediate
21:06:42 <advil> huh discourse is quite resource intensive apparently
21:09:41 <advil> and also can't run without sudo?
21:10:44 <ebering> wow
21:27:01 <alexjurkiewicz> they provide docker images right?
21:28:52 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah i guess sudo to install docker?
21:31:01 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac
21:33:30 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah i guess sudo to install docker?
21:33:31 <alexjurkiewicz> oops
23:26:57 <alexjurkiewicz> advil: aidanh: been running my PR for two days with no errors seen in that time. I'm happy to call it "ready to merge" now
23:30:17 <aidanh> sounds good; I might test it a bit on older tornado versions without a server restart this weekend
23:32:02 <advil> does merging this require intervention on the part of server owners if they are using a typical setup and need to restart the webtiles server?
23:33:00 <advil> also, does it require me to spend hours coaxing cao into working?
23:34:19 <advil> I haven't really looked at this PR so if the answer is anything but "it is utterly guaranteed to work flawlessly" I will need some prep time and I don't know when I can supervise that
23:36:47 <advil> it looks like it at least requires server owners to have upgraded tornado a bit...
23:38:20 <advil> at least going by the doc
23:40:30 <advil> these template changes will definitely require manual intervention
23:40:39 <advil> not sure I understand the config changes enough to know what it needs
23:40:51 <advil> anyways, I will have to look at this more thoroughly some other time
23:44:45 <alexjurkiewicz> It wil require manual intervention because the diff includes changes to config.py, which every server has customised
23:45:26 <alexjurkiewicz> at a minimum, the update process looks like: `cp -r config.py templates/ ~ ; git pull ; cp ~/config.py . ; cp ~/templates/* templates/`
23:45:50 <alexjurkiewicz> s/git pull/git fetch && git reset --hard origin/master/ (since you'll get merge conflicts if you try and pull)
23:50:02 <advil> I think most setups don't run webtiles out of a repository, they copy a subset of the files into place (not including config.py)
23:50:08 <aidanh> I imagine most servers use dgamelaunch-config, so they'll require different instructions
23:50:11 <advil> yeah
23:50:54 <advil> I'll take a look at some point but right now I'm heading to sleep
23:51:35 <gammafunk> yeah, they use a templated config.py, which is published by a dgl command from dgamelaunch-config
23:51:47 <gammafunk> published into the chroot, I mean
23:53:08 <alexjurkiewicz> oh that's cool. I've updated the OP of my PR with a full changelog, as well. The PR thread is a bit cluttered
23:53:24 <gammafunk> oh, in fact, they'll have to manually merge in config.py changes, right?
23:53:35 <gammafunk> the config.py is typically checked into dgamelaunch-config
23:53:52 <gammafunk> which is its own repository
23:54:09 <gammafunk> to that end we may need to merge a config.py into that?
23:54:11 <alexjurkiewicz> none of the changes I've made are backwards-incompatible, so their existing config.py files will work as-is
23:54:41 <alexjurkiewicz> all the new functionality is opt-in
23:54:41 <gammafunk> sure, but still it'd need to be integrated
23:54:50 <gammafunk> not sure if aidanh was going ahead with merging that repo into crawl
23:55:10 <gammafunk> we sort of discussed that at one point and I know advil was concerned (as was I, but I'll defer to people with more expertise)
23:56:21 <gammafunk> yeah, indeed I see on CAO that changes to config.py are commited to dgamelaunch-config checkout
23:57:00 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: This is the repo for that, which I think you know of already, but there's a config.py in there that should be updated
23:57:32 <gammafunk> hrm, but I guess that one has installations for specific versions, as it's based on cszo's config
23:58:13 <gammafunk> I suppose it would be wise to update this with each new version as long as it does remain as its own repo
23:58:18 <alexjurkiewicz> hm, you're saying I should submit a PR to dgamelaunch-config to use all the new features I'm adding in this PR?
23:58:43 <gammafunk> you might want to coordinate with aidanh on that a bit, as he has plans that perhaps intersect with his chroot work
23:59:01 <gammafunk> but at some point this should be updated to reflact changes from your branch I think
23:59:24 <gammafunk> since this is something each admin must incorporate, probably not a priority to update this before your branch is merged