01:47:51 So I would like to discuss a proposal. 01:49:08 I would like to rewrite the weapon code to remove all weapon types from the game. I don't think the choice of weapon is a meaningful one. You either use the highest aptitude, or you use an axe, and 9/10 you just use the axe. I think this change is in line with the recent changes/developments to remove "no brainers" from the game, and simply 01:49:09 redundant content. 01:49:57 fyi they're a troll from Discord and reddit 01:50:51 Also the removal of elemental brands/vorpral. Specifically vorpral. It does nothing that an elemental brand doesn't already do. The elemental brands are also relatively undifferentiated and only have niche uses cases. Again not really providing a meaningful decision. 01:51:31 SenoraRaton, if you're serious maybe this should be a fork. "NoWeaponChoicesCrawl" 01:51:43 Also spellcasting is redundant and adds an extra layer of abstraction to spells. Its unnecessary. Your MP/success chance/spell levels can just be based upon your total level of magic skills 01:52:11 I am attempting to contribute to development, I was directed here after being trolled in the Discord. If the only solution is to fork, then development is not open. 01:53:27 Also on the note of brands, multiple brands encourage weapon hoarding for niche cases, so that optimum play is always to pick up a distortion brand, carry a freezing brand for certain cases etc... 01:55:06 I don't agree that spellcasting is redundant or that your proposal would work well. If MP and spell levels were based on total level of spell school skills, then either casters with substantial training in all spell schools would have insane amounts of MP/spell slots, or casters focusing on only one or two schools would have extremely few/little, especially early in the game. 01:55:55 You just make it logarithmic 01:56:11 The amount of MP and spell slots you need is more-or-less relative to how far along you are in your run. A caster with diversity does not need more MP/slots than a more focused caster. 01:56:13 Its entirely possible to balance it. 01:57:30 Ehh. That sounds like a rather complicated, unstraightforward "fix" to something that's not really all that broken. 01:57:35 In my humble opinion 01:58:43 Maybe we can just remove spell levels entirely 01:59:10 Spell levels are designed to limit options with spells correct? Do they server any other purpose? 02:00:24 Mainly, the best solution is just to tie mp/spell levels to level. Perhaps have an MP multiplier by the highest magic school. Then its very simple and streamlined and consistent. 02:00:27 I think the removal of spellcasting is an interesting idea 02:00:53 I think hellcrawl did this 02:01:52 it did... I did it.... development is not open. 02:01:54 https://github.com/Hellmonk/hellcrawl/pull/45 02:02:34 Well there you go. 02:02:51 SenoraRaton, not that what I think is most important, but I like the idea of basing it on XL and highest magic school a lot better than based on the total of magic schools 02:02:53 I was also going to say about "development is not open." -- I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but DCSS development is not open in that anyone can change the game. Anyone can request a change. But the dev team decide what changes get included or not 02:04:09 Yeah, that Hellcrawl change is not so bad to my eyes 02:04:09 anyway, I don't think the hellcrawl PR is quite acceptable to include in vanilla. I think removal of spellcasting would be better to break into multiple changes 02:04:17 eg a) disconnect MP from spellcasting b) disconnect spell power from spellcasting c) disconnect spell levels from spellcasting 02:05:00 That would allow discussion of what value (if any) spellcasting adds to each area. And once those discussions are resolved, whether spellcasting has enough remaining value to justify keeping around 02:06:44 Not sure why its necessary to break it up. If your gonna remove one of the three, you just create stronger arguments for moving forward with the rest. 02:07:25 As far as practically coding it sure, but in what world would you be willing to remove say MP from spellcasting, but KEEP spell levels/spellpower. 02:08:26 They just spent 15 minutes trolling everyone on discord, so be careful about taking them at face value 02:08:26 Otherwise you will be here all night with them 02:08:26 sorry, I don't mean literally multiple PRs. But I mean spellcasting has multiple features where it interacts with the rest of crawl 02:08:26 I think honestly spell levels is probably the first that should go. MP/Spellpower are rather "hidden" variables most players don't interact with, but because of the hard cap of spell levels, it requires you to know/plan your training to his exact breakpoints. 02:08:39 the value of each is somewhat independent 02:08:47 And if they keep up with the hostility, they won't be long for this channel 02:09:33 You can see this by the "remove all weapon types" "proposal" 02:09:35 I think the last 9 minutes have been alright, but I am ready to eject 02:10:07 So... whats the next step? 02:10:13 yeah, as long as you are aware; it's going to circle back to "development not open" and proposing ridiculous things etc 02:11:31 SenoraRaton: I think next step would be a post to GDD outlining the things spellcasting does now, why you think the design is lacking, and then your proposal for a replacement 02:11:48 What is GDD? Mantis? 02:12:04 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewforum.php?f=8 02:12:18 Tavern accounts are closed IIRC. 02:12:20 i think registration was re-opened after spambots went away 02:12:50 ??contributing 02:12:50 I don't have a page labeled contributing in my learndb. 02:12:55 ??patch 02:12:55 patch[1/2]: For details about how to discuss and submit a patch or pull request, see: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/contribution-process.md 02:13:13 !learn add contributing see {patch} 02:13:14 contributing[1/1]: see {patch} 02:13:17 ??contributions 02:13:17 contributions ~ contributing ~ patch[1/2]: For details about how to discuss and submit a patch or pull request, see: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/contribution-process.md 02:13:52 i guess if registration is still closed, you can follow the "fork and github wiki page" approach 02:14:01 then I suppose you'd open an issue on crawl/crawl with the wiki page linked 02:14:05 I have a mantis account, from like a decade ago. 02:14:18 I submitted a feature request for felids to wear scarves. 02:14:24 Its still on my radar. 02:14:25 that should get you into the tavern 02:18:10 Re-adjusting spellpower is going to be a nightmare 02:18:30 right, that's why I simply dropped it for hellcrawl 02:18:42 You dropped spellpower entirely? 02:19:18 no, I dropped spellpower from spellcasting 02:19:25 I mean its going to have to be readjusted with the removal, otherwise "net" spellpower goes down as a whole. 02:19:52 that's not necessarily a problem 02:20:05 if spellpower is removed, people have more SP to devote to other magic skills 02:20:11 *if spellcasting is removed... 03:23:42 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-697-g890751e (34) 03:30:58 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2999-g24818c1c7b 10:57:41 for future reference that was just someone trolling us 13:30:10 -!- Tiobot is now known as Guest49362 13:30:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25-a0-697-g890751e (34) 15:38:19 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac 16:09:58 yeah, but I like that idea :) 16:28:56 -!- amrqx is now known as yesno 16:48:37 Frozen ramparts does not recolor the ground behind some features 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12233 by vt 17:09:50 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron 18:23:18 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-697-g890751e744 (34)