01:54:17 New repo for qw in the crawl org with the 0.25 fixes merged: https://github.com/crawl/qw 01:54:23 ??qw 01:54:23 qw[1/7]: A fully automated lua bot written by elliptic, with some code borrowed from parabolic and xw. See "!lg qw won 2" for the first ever completely uninterrupted and unassisted bot win. Git repository: https://github.com/elliptic/qw 01:55:57 !learn edit qw[1] s|Git repo.*https|Now maintained here: https://github.com/crawl/qw ; original repository: https| 01:55:57 qw[1/7]: A fully automated lua bot written by elliptic, with some code borrowed from parabolic and xw. See "!lg qw won 2" for the first ever completely uninterrupted and unassisted bot win. Now maintained here: https://github.com/crawl/qw ; original repository: https://github.com/elliptic/qw 02:10:04 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-670-g50981ef59b 02:45:07 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-651-g8c222c7a2b 03:11:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-670-g50981ef (34) 03:30:56 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2999-g24818c1c7b 04:36:58 aidanh: i just merged your changes / master in 04:37:10 let me run it on cpo for a few days and check error log for py3 issues 04:37:24 no issues from merging your branch except mypy.ini conflict 04:37:37 which changes? just the dev-env stuff? 04:41:42 yep 05:09:37 Branch master updated to be equal with extract-known-items: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master 05:11:24 New branch created: refactor-english (5 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/refactor-english 05:11:24 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-english] * 0.25-a0-672-g8218035: Extract god_speaker() function 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8218035a6412 05:11:24 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-english] * 0.25-a0-673-g0e598db: Remove add_stop parameter from feature_description_at() 10(2 hours ago, 22 files, 48+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e598dbb0190 05:11:24 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-english] * 0.25-a0-674-g6b543d1: Remove add_stop parameter from feature_description() 10(2 hours ago, 8 files, 15+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b543d121c5a 05:11:24 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-english] * 0.25-a0-675-g543c2ce: Remove add_stop parameter from thing_do_grammar() 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 10+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/543c2ce9b99b 05:11:24 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-english] * 0.25-a0-676-g72a9b15: Remove force_article parameter from thing_do_grammar() 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 11+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72a9b1558cf1 05:30:32 03hellmonk02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.25-a0-672-g0b37f7b: Absolute Zero, a replacement spell for Glaciate. 10(10 days ago, 10 files, 92+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b37f7bc48d9 05:30:32 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-673-gb3b5f87: Fix two bugs for Absolute Zero 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b3b5f875f8a2 05:30:32 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-674-gf3ad0b3: Add range scaling for Absolute Zero 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 14+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f3ad0b3c7caf 05:30:32 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-675-g38ce9ef: Allow Absolute Zero to target tentacles 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38ce9ef878fb 05:30:32 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-676-g857d98e: Add an effect flash for Absolute Zero 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/857d98e98d6f 06:23:48 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-676-g857d98e98d (34) 07:32:45 -!- Tiobot is now known as Guest99212 10:56:12 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.25-a0-677-g7663158: Extract god_speaker() function 10(8 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76631587b918 10:56:12 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.25-a0-678-gc225cfc: Remove add_stop parameter from feature_description_at() 10(8 hours ago, 22 files, 48+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c225cfcdaea0 10:56:12 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.25-a0-679-g4e0c643: Remove add_stop parameter from feature_description() 10(8 hours ago, 8 files, 15+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e0c6439a73b 10:56:12 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.25-a0-680-g38bdf73: Remove add_stop parameter from thing_do_grammar() 10(7 hours ago, 4 files, 10+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38bdf733c1d2 10:56:12 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.25-a0-681-gdf4e720: Remove force_article parameter from thing_do_grammar() 10(7 hours ago, 4 files, 11+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df4e720381b5 11:07:24 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac 11:12:20 johnstein: I'm also not sure how there could get to be multiple trunk saves in the first place but it doesn't look to me like the save upgrade script checks if it might be overwriting something, so in the case where there are, this sounds like what would happen 11:14:33 a minimal fix would be to add -n to https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/blob/cbro/chroot/sbin/savegame-transfer.sh#L86 11:16:09 I'm afraid that if this mv line overwrote his gn save, it is just gone 11:19:22 !lm greynaab gid=greynaab:cbro:20190719185423S 1 x=cv 11:19:22 1/71. [2019-08-19 18:54:23] [cv=0.24-a] greynaab the Cudgeler (L1 GnBe of Trog) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 11:19:22 !lm greynaab gid=greynaab:cbro:20190719185423S -1 x=cv 11:19:22 71. [2020-03-28 19:58:42] [cv=0.25-a] greynaab the Bringer of Light (L27 GnBe of The Shining One) reached level 5 of the Realm of Zot on turn 78967. (Zot:5) 11:19:28 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-681-gdf4e720381 (34) 11:20:46 !lm greynaab gid=greynaab:cbro:20190719185423S 1 x=vlong 11:20:47 1/71. [2019-08-19 18:54:23] [vlong=0.24-a0-549-g45f0056] greynaab the Cudgeler (L1 GnBe of Trog) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 11:22:23 I'm also puzzled why this didn't happen before, this gnbe has had a ton of update opportunities 11:25:15 oh hm no there's an earlier step in this script that checks for saves 11:26:14 could still add --no-clobber, preferably bailing out if there did actually turn out to be a file there 11:26:52 probably a good idea, does failure on -n set an error code? 11:27:00 it'll report an error at least if so 11:29:32 nevermind, this step doesn't check that 11:39:27 well, I changed it here at least: https://github.com/crawl/dgamelaunch-config/blob/master/chroot/sbin/savegame-transfer.sh 11:40:16 why does the github commit thing bug you about 50 chars for the commit title, but then give you no way at all to see what the right linebreaking would be for the commit msg itself? 11:43:50 huh, maybe I'm misunderstanding the save transfer code in the first place 11:44:02 is that script I just edited even used? 11:44:07 there's alternative code here: https://github.com/crawl/dgamelaunch-config/blob/master/chroot/bin/crawl-git-launcher.sh#L140 11:45:10 i noticed that the other day; one of them appears to be entirely unused 11:45:20 haha do you know which one? 11:45:26 I'll just add -n to both 11:45:55 oh, I wonder if one is for dgl console and one is for webtiles? 11:46:40 oh that could be it 11:47:14 sounds like they could get out of sync pretty easily 11:47:30 well, if anyone ever went near this stuff, that is 11:47:30 the code is slightly different, yeah 11:47:59 running them through shellcheck might find some more issues as well 11:48:25 I don't think that's this particular issue since greynaab's milestones for this game are all tiles 11:50:51 same games either way, right? or you mean they only ever played webtiles? 11:51:01 only ever played webtiles for this gid 11:51:17 looking at this more it appears that the launcher code is designed to handle both webtiles and console 11:51:28 so I suspect this is the code that is actually in use on most servers 11:51:58 cdo is the only console-only server 11:52:25 well let's just remove the other one from master then 11:52:42 oh wait 11:52:51 it might be intended to be there as a script for cl use? 11:53:12 oh, for manual administration? 11:53:21 yeah...there's another script that updates all saves 11:54:16 yeah, pretty sure this chroot script is what is called by https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/blob/cbro/bin/savegame-transfer-all.sh 11:54:32 sorry, wrong repo, but you get the idea 11:55:25 https://github.com/crawl/dgamelaunch-config/blob/master/bin/savegame-transfer-all.sh and https://github.com/crawl/dgamelaunch-config/blob/master/bin/savegame-transfer.sh 11:55:37 oh yeah, it has that indirection via dgl, for sudo iirc 11:55:39 it's unfortunate that code isn't shared though 12:06:56 yeah 12:08:30 I think part of the problem is that it's written in shell, which tends to encourage this sort of structure 12:08:36 yep 12:09:02 as well as encouraging quick fixes and divergence from master 12:09:27 but I'm not sure what would be better... python has the same 2v3 issue 12:09:35 I unfortunately am not very good at getting into the bundle-of-shell-scripts 90s linux aesthetic 12:14:01 right 12:14:40 well i guess if my python3 chroot stuff works, that will also permit using py3 for the dgl gunk 12:14:43 some of it, at least 12:16:33 I do hope that in some future eventuality it's possible to have python 3 on all servers 12:19:22 really it's fairly unnerving to have a server on an LTS version that is two years past its eol... 12:19:38 that shouldn't be tooooo difficult, it's just a matter of finding a few hours to do upgrades 12:20:35 if it were my server, it were fully backed up, and I felt like I had the experience to understand the worst case scenarios, I might agree with that :-) 12:20:37 i'm of the opinion that LTS releases are a bad idea, because they lull you into not upgrading, and when you eventually have to, well.. you're gonna have a bad time 12:21:16 totally fair :) 12:22:40 I guess there's this: https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/ 12:23:01 it appears that it would require a kernel upgrade though 12:23:39 oof 12:23:41 and even that ends on 2020-06-30 12:24:49 hm, yeah, not worth it 12:26:33 although one nice thing is that if cao and cbro are upgraded, we meed the minimum required gcc version for abseil, which provides a whole bunch of c++17 goodies 13:24:47 does anyone know why mechanical traps have a shared DNGN_TRAP_MECHANICAL feat? seems a bit odd 13:31:59 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25-a0-681-gdf4e720 (34) 14:18:40 non-mechanical traps behave differently for monster AI purposes 14:25:57 didn't realize that CAO was that far past the expiration date of its LTS 14:26:31 it is wheezy 14:26:41 heh 14:26:45 also, somewhat related, mysterious entry found in dat/descript/database/rand_arm.txt: 14:26:53 # from the crawl.akrasiac.org patch. 14:26:54 Eight Boll Weevils 14:28:53 ooh, and one of the references to akrasiac.org in the codebase: 14:28:56 til/docs/README.tex:them. Check the homepage \key{http:\slsl crawl.akrasiac.org} for details, 14:29:03 the much-used README tex file 14:29:45 *util/docs/README.txt 14:52:35 hrm, sequell seems to be missing certain games from cxc 14:52:40 !lg * cxc current alpha 14:52:41 23146. TimmyIs the Conjurer (L9 DrCj of Vehumet), shot by a centaur (arrow) on D:7 on 2020-03-29 18:43:24, with 2072 points after 7208 turns and 0:22:17. 14:52:43 !time 14:52:44 Time: Mar 29, 2020, 06:52:43 PM, UTC. 14:53:10 https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Amnesiac/morgue-Amnesiac-20200329-155932.txt 14:53:13 !lg amnesiac 14:53:14 8951. Amnesiac the Magician (L2 DEWz), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2020-03-29 15:38:58, with 15 points after 340 turns and 0:01:18. 14:53:23 !lg amnesiac cxc current alpha 14:53:24 156. Amnesiac the Magician (L2 DEWz), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2020-03-29 15:38:58, with 15 points after 340 turns and 0:01:18. 14:53:31 oh 14:53:43 not those, I guess 14:53:53 !lg :hittemvvvvvhard 14:53:53 69. hittemvvvvvhard the Formicid Barricade (L27 FoBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2020-03-26 00:52:15, with 1521184 points after 88268 turns and 3:54:51. 14:54:20 but on here: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/hittemvvvvvhard ; http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/hittemvvvvvhard/morgue-hittemvvvvvhard-20200328-205843.txt 14:55:09 guess I might need to ask greensnark about that 14:56:42 ah, and amnesiac does seem to randomly be missing games as well, now that I look at it 14:56:42 !lg amnesiac cxc current alpha -2 14:56:42 155/156. Amnesiac the Slicer (L22 HaMo of Zin), blasted by a starcursed mass (accursed screaming) on Abyss:5 (evilmike_abyss_rune_siren_acolytes) on 2020-03-26 03:57:05, with 326853 points after 54601 turns and 3:02:15. 14:57:34 missing about 10 games between that DEWz and that HaMo 15:02:26 first thing to double check is if they are in the milestone file 15:02:31 or rather logfile 15:18:28 advil: well, CAO scoring does list them; should have made that clear 15:18:56 right, are they in cxc's server logfile and/or sequell's cache? 15:19:41 when this has happened in the past it's usually been because the server logfile was rolled back, and the timing determines which services have the games in their cache 15:20:33 checking now 15:22:33 interesting, my first attempt at downloading from cxc failed 15:23:52 both logfiles at cxc and shalott.org cache have the HaBe win 15:23:52 for hittemvvvvvhard 15:23:52 !lg hittemvvvvvhard habe 15:23:53 No games for hittemvvvvvhard (habe). 15:23:56 !lm hittemvvvvvhard habe 15:23:57 35. [2020-03-28 02:39:24] hittemvvvvvhard the Hoplite (L24 HaBe of Trog) entered the Depths on turn 71222. (D:15) 15:24:16 and sequell seems to see all the milestones up until the win 15:24:33 I guess if shalott has it is probably a sequell-specific bug then? is there a sequell log that you have access to? 15:24:46 there is not, no 15:24:50 will have to ask snark 15:25:10 there might be some public log, but I'm not sure where 15:28:24 I take it there was nothing obviously weird about the logfile entry for the game? 15:35:59 v=0.25-a0:vlong=0.25-a0-668-gea548f19b6:lv=0.1:vsavrv=Git::0.25-a0-668-gea548f19b6:vsav=34.215:tiles=1:name=hittemvvvvvhard:race=Halfling:cls=Berserker:char=HaBe:xl=27:sk=Armour:sklev=25:title=Impregnable:place=D::$:br=D:lvl=0:absdepth=1:hp=205:mhp=205:mmhp=206:mp=44:mmp=44:bmmp=35:str=31:int=8:dex=15:ac=50:ev=23:sh=20:god=Trog:start=20200226085449S:dur=16456:turn=99252:aut=883575:urune=3:nrune=3:kil 15:36:05 ls=2438:fifteenskills=Fighting,Armour,Dodging,Shields,Evocations:status=repel missiles:gold=3190:goldfound=10071:goldspent=6881:scrollsused=92:potionsused=15:sc=1466150:ktyp=winning:dam=-9999:sdam=0:tdam=0:piety=109:end=20200228205843S:map=dpeg_arrival_more_subterranean_lakeside_camping:seed=2648138233246281565:tmsg=escaped with the Orb:vmsg=escaped with the Orb and 3 runes! 15:36:11 well, that's not very good 15:37:38 diff shows the two logfiles only differ by one additional entry, which I presume is just due to timing of download 15:38:00 but if there's a problem with that entry pasted above, I'm not sure sure what it would be 15:38:20 I mentioned that Amnesiac is also missing a bunch of non-winning games that show up on CAO scoring but not sequell 15:38:26 let me see if those seem to be in both logfiles 15:38:51 !lg amnesiac cxc current alpha dewz 15:38:52 1. Amnesiac the Magician (L2 DEWz), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2020-03-29 15:38:58, with 15 points after 340 turns and 0:01:18. 15:40:13 Yeah I do see corresponding logfile entry for this game shown on CAO scoring: DEWz Vehumet Thaumaturge D:5 engulfed by a cloud of flame 87,080 00:19:51 2020-03-29 15:59:32 0.25-a0 15:40:20 which is not reflected in sequell 15:40:42 !lg amnesiac dewz cxc current alpha D:5 15:40:43 No games for amnesiac (dewz cxc current alpha D:5). 15:41:07 so there's multiple missing games in Sequell, it seems 15:42:18 yeah, entry looks ok on the surface 15:42:47 I guess the other puzzle is, if this is something new, what would have caused it? 15:43:01 usually reports like this have been about cao, haven't heard of sequell missing anything in a while 15:55:09 I'll have to assemble the evidence and email snark 16:20:31 -!- Tiobot is now known as Guest27341 17:51:16 was working on my evokers branch some more and looked at the existing remote evokers branch out of curiosity, there's some good weird stuff there 17:51:37 %git fa2e89446d7589e5306d2115bc970cf5493e4392 17:51:37 07mumra02 * 0.13-a0-1878-gfa2e894: A new item, Gong of Golubria 10(7 years ago, 25 files, 140+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa2e89446d75 17:51:37 GONNNNG! 17:52:16 some of the stuff on that branch i vaguely remember being experimented with but that one is new to me 17:58:37 yes! mumra's little-know evocations/artificer rework branch 17:58:47 it has a mummified hand evocable, if I recall correctly? 18:01:21 heh, maybe gong of golubria is more interesting than fan of gales, but I'm not sure it fills a role that various consumables don't already 18:01:21 GONNNNG! 18:01:21 not even sure I even saw that one 18:01:21 yep! as well as a reworked/simplified tome of destruction which i do remember a bit more clearly, the gong is much weirder though so i wonder how i missed that one 18:01:21 PANG! 18:01:21 %git 3d98332f08c3adc3e88ba4bee51a706b57471d36 18:01:21 07mumra02 * 0.13-a0-1882-g3d98332: Add a new item Hand of Haunting 10(7 years ago, 13 files, 109+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d98332f08c3 18:02:05 that's the one 18:02:56 not sure if it's in the same branch, but he also implemented "rod pumping" as a revamp to the way rod recharging works 18:03:01 alas, it was not meant to be 18:03:11 yeah, that one's a separate branch but i was just looking at that too 18:03:27 %git 0e81f5f511b6db44a6918ba5596d28b37490f04b 18:03:27 07mumra02 * 0.13-a0-1731-g0e81f5f: Recharge rods by "hand-cranking" 10(7 years ago, 7 files, 125+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e81f5f511b6 18:07:46 -!- Tiobot is now known as Guest27144 18:08:20 I see the infamous chimeric monster implementation 18:08:28 wonder if that started in this evoker-playstyle branch 18:10:04 hrm, and from what I'm seeing, evoker-playstyle has all of the hand, the gong item, and the rod stuff: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/compare/evoker-playstyle 18:10:04 PANG! 18:10:07 ah yeah! i seem to remember that being very fun to break with vault-defined chimeras 18:11:25 yeah, it's still possibly to make the monster util for certain version with those things spit out near-infinite text if you create the right type of chimera based on monsters with lots of spells 18:14:13 but yeah, in terms of my local branch currently i was planning on removing fan of gales, lamp of fire, sack of spiders and cboe, which i think narrows things down to a more reasonable mix of damaging/summoning evokers that still do some unique things 18:17:38 i think of those removals fan of gales is maybe the one that does do a fairly unique thing so could maybe be worth keeping? but i'm not sure it's that good an effect for like, a pretty niche escape effect that you still always want to carry just in case 18:17:58 yeah, I end up using fan of gales once every other game for the few times it's clearly the cheapest thing to use 18:19:01 not really sorry to see any of the others go; the net effect from the sack is pretty vestigial and also just redundant with nets, which you also want to carry 18:19:40 and spiders don't make interesting enough summons to warrant their own item; ghost moth is kind of cool because AOE anti-magic 18:20:12 which is something you don't get elsewhere, but that's also just kind of like AOE slow, which you can get elsewhere 18:21:33 yeah, between spiders and box of beasts i feel like the beasts are a bit more interesting, and then phantom mirror is fun for one-off weird things 18:23:50 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-681-gdf4e720381 (34) 18:25:43 lamp is more fun than phial imo 18:26:03 seeing multiple lines of flame shoot out is incredibly cool 18:26:25 and it has another advantage: fewer summons! 18:26:49 phial pushback and water effect is more mechanically interesting though, for sure 18:27:03 for phial i removed the summons anyway, but gave it an aoe flooding-based silence since that's a weird thing that the elementals do 18:27:41 wow, non actor-radius based silence?? coool 18:28:30 i should have guessed you'd remove the water elemental. it's always awkward 18:31:20 by the way, if/when you merge this, I think it could be a great opportunity to make a post (eg commit message or blog post) about how removing all these evocable options makes evocations better. In that it's good for the game to provide you multiple choices ("which evocable do I use here?") but if you have too many choices you end up with choice paralysis and it's less clear what choice is the best. 18:32:25 the community has picked up the "devs just remove things" meme again lately, and there's no real pushback about how removals are sometimes good. (Just pushback about how devs actually also add things.) 18:33:25 not really worthy of a post, since it's sort of a thing we've just done for years and years at this point 18:34:26 plus I think people often do respond pointing out how removals are good; it's a never-ending struggle, since removals are less common in video games 18:35:39 the problem with lamp was that it was just a truley awful targeter, and with rod of clouds, I think it's pretty redundant 18:35:48 *truely 18:36:13 er wand of clouds 18:37:15 i'm sure that some tiny commit message detail or quirk of the wording will get picked up on and blown out of proportion like whatever it was for the regeneration spell (but yeah, i can still try and give a bit of a summary of the reasoning in the first commit message probably) 18:41:24 since yeah, could be putting into words why in particular reducing the amount of stuff you want to carry all the time can be a good thing 21:32:15 -!- misha is now known as werekitten 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-682-g2a2dd08: Remove fans of gales 10(7 weeks ago, 29 files, 33+ 91-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2a2dd087f937 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-683-ga6edddd: Remove sacks of spiders 10(7 weeks ago, 14 files, 33+ 149-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a6edddd4f1ea 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-684-g9d5f834: Remove lamps of fire 10(7 weeks ago, 28 files, 37+ 332-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9d5f834e756c 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-685-g218c6e4: Remove crystal balls of energy 10(6 weeks ago, 24 files, 43+ 165-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/218c6e4ed03e 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-686-ga947b41: Remove staves of power 10(5 weeks ago, 14 files, 15+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a947b41d7585 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-687-gefd6843: Rework the phial of floods 10(5 weeks ago, 7 files, 35+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efd68434e682 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-688-gf17ce21: Consider magical staves and pain weapons to be wizardly for Trog conducts 10(6 weeks ago, 7 files, 34+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f17ce215b287 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-689-g75bb5f1: Rework staves of poison 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 23+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/75bb5f1c0019 21:40:09 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-690-g234afa5: Adjust the staff of Olgreb 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 30+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/234afa57d4e3 21:43:49 thanks for ruining crawl forever...again! 21:44:09 glad to see staves of power go, forgot all about that 21:45:58 secretly part of the reason for those in particular as opposed to is that there's no easy way to make them give penance under trog in a way that makes sense, compared to the way the other staves are handled now 21:46:18 as opposed to staves of wizardry* 21:46:39 but yeah even aside from the trog stuff they don't make a lot of sense 21:50:36 i was wondering about doing something with staves of conjuration and summoning too, since now all the rest of the staves should theoretically be able to do some good evo-based damage 21:51:20 yeah, I don't think those would be terribly missed since they are just school-specific enhancers, certainly especially staff of summoning 21:51:29 I suppose you could come up with some neat melee effect for them 21:51:51 yeah, not sure what would work there - summoning used to abjure on hit but that wasn't actually any good i'm pretty sure 21:51:59 definitely not, no 21:52:06 I guess one think nice about conj is that it means less swapping as you use different spells 21:52:20 but I guess that's just a problem with the design of staves 21:52:33 plenty of non-conj spells so you still want to swap at time 21:53:18 yeah, i guess if they were to be removed there's still the staff of battle as an unrand conj enhancer, could come up with a fancy summoning unrand too 22:03:26 right 22:13:30 sent this to kate, but will put it here too: 22:13:34 One suggestion from hellmonk as to how staff of conj damage could work: "staves of conj get staff of earth's current damage, and staves of earth get a triple ac check with a better damage formula, because that's like the only gimmick earth has that regular conj doesn't have" 22:13:44 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-690-g234afa57d4 (34) 23:47:50 Guys, is vault that requires having -tele to get the loot considered to be of good design? hangedman_aerie_drop