00:51:16 would you (devs) be interested in a rewrite of the contributor's guide document? The thread on Reddit today I think identifies one real issue: it's not very easy to understand how to contribute to crawl if you aren't familiar with Github. The contributor's guide is very long and prose-y, which I think makes it hard to read (especially when you are scanning for information). I think the document could be 00:51:19 cut down significantly, with clearer steps on "this is how you submit a pull request" and "here is what to expect when you submit a game design change we disagree with" (ebering's comments from the positional magic thread he pulled up are a great template for my thinking on the latter) 01:07:46 alexjurkiewicz: I don't think that guide is particularly long; it would take at most 10 or 15 minutes to read, and if someone isn't willing to spend that amount of time on their submission, they're probably not going to do due diligance on the work they're submitting 01:09:10 You say the main issue understanding github but talk about the sections giving info on what to expect and how to collaborate; those things aren't related 01:09:31 if you want to make a seperate sort of "github quickstart", that could be useful (someone already has done that, but it's pretty old) 01:10:01 however the collaboration and feedback settings are pretty important so we can give people an idea of the standards we have and how we like to collaborate 02:10:11 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-528-g6b7c999 02:47:54 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:48:28 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-443-g80245de 03:40:01 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-2230-g2459fa21b0 06:40:37 alexjurkiewicz: I think the only thing that could change on the contrib guide is the proposal for gameplay-related contributions. It could be taken to imply that others will do the implementation work for a well argued proposal (usually, but not entirely, false) 06:42:22 alexjurkiewicz: a pass to cut down on verbosity would also be welcome, but there is already a 5 step outline to the process and a link to the git quickstart guide which could use a markdownification and an update to section 6 for github 06:42:31 hm that's a run on 06:42:57 alexjurkiewicz: what I mean is the contrib-guide is not meant to be a guide to how to use github; git/quickstart.txt is supposed to be for that 06:43:14 git/quickstart.txt could use some updating, and maybe be linked from the example section 06:58:07 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-529-g88f1615: Update Summon Drakes description 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88f1615ccf7a 07:02:16 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-530-g60722c7: Extend alias functionality for database lookups 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 27+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/60722c7f103d 07:02:16 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-531-gfa7a601: Don't mention player-only mechanics in monster spells descriptions 10(3 weeks ago, 2 files, 10+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa7a6018ded4 07:02:34 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-529-g88f1615ccf (34) 07:17:27 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-531-gfa7a6018de (34) 07:54:38 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-532-g9592c2e: INSTALL.md improvements 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 26+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9592c2e932b1 07:54:38 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-533-gf485615: Remove install instructions for Void Linux 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f48561505ff0 07:54:38 03ebering02 07* 0.25-a0-534-g8cb9f22: Wrap to 80 columns 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8cb9f22522eb 08:02:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-534-g8cb9f22522 (34) 08:48:25 03ebering02 07* 0.25-a0-535-g9273b55: Update new dev guidelines 10(76 seconds ago, 1 file, 129+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9273b557bc3a 09:02:46 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-535-g9273b557bc (34) 09:35:58 The build has errored. (master - 9273b55 #12724 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/652494516 09:38:48 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-536-g360c081: Disable Codecov pull request comments 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/360c081f3ef8 09:38:48 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-537-gbfe250d: Exclude catch2-tests/ from coverage data 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bfe250d9befa 09:38:48 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-538-g0a83c12: s/coveralls/codecov/ 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0a83c12206bb 09:38:48 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-539-gc37ea4f: Display ccache config per-build 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 34+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c37ea4fa1170 09:38:48 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-540-g8ea5abb: Add size limits to ccache 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 41+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ea5abb603f8 09:39:36 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-541-ga829c89: Improve macOS Makefile support 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a829c891c6c9 09:47:30 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-541-ga829c891c6 (34) 10:06:33 03Byrel Mitchell02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-542-g5e20511: Change chance of triggering paralysis/pain bond to be turn-length invariant 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e2051132192 10:17:38 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-542-g5e20511321 (34) 10:26:41 The build passed. (master - 8ea5abb #12725 : Alex Jurkiewicz): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/652516741 10:27:17 !tell advil thanks for cleaning up my mess! 10:27:18 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let advil know. 10:27:27 (and sorry for the trouble...) 10:29:43 alexjurkiewicz: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/runs/455488642 github is less happy than travis 10:33:30 It's probably been suggested before but: I'd like to see scrolls of Branding to be able to add brands to Armor, as well as Weapons.It's probably been suggested before but: I'd like to see scrolls of Branding to be able to add "brands" to Armor, as well as Weapons. Like, taking vanilla armor and giving it rF+ or maybe a rare rCorr. 10:34:23 Oh that was weird. Sent twice. 10:34:23 Brand armour is an idea that gets suggested periodically and has been on the Won't do list for years 10:35:06 ebering: I suspected that may be the case. :) 10:37:25 to be more specific: 10:37:34 Among other problems, boots of running far outstrip any other armour brand, and having this scroll would just mean that you dump it into every pair of boots you find, and usually don't get running anyway (because it's rare). We might as well just increase frequency of boots of running, rather than adding this new item. 10:38:04 ("among other problems" isn't very helpful, of course) 10:41:55 I suppose scrolls of branding could also be removed similarly. 10:42:17 Tell me more! 10:45:54 To quote, "We might as well just increase frequency of boots of running, rather than adding this new item." Could do the same thing with branded weapons. It might be more challenging to increase the frequency of enchanted/branded weapons to monsters. Kill the monster to get a good weapon brand, perhaps. 10:46:48 Scrolls of brand weapon are fairly rare as it is anyway. 10:47:22 The build passed. (master - a829c89 #12726 : Alex Jurkiewicz): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/652517086 10:51:23 Or rather, increase the frequency of enchanted/branded weapons spawning with monsters. 10:51:57 The comment about branding armour was referring to one armour ego being substantially stronger than others. Weapon brands have more tradeoffs - there are some that tend to be better for certain weapon types and character types, but not as strongly. There are also more weapon brands in general. That's what makes ?brand interesting - you get to 10:51:58 gamble on improving a weapon. 10:53:06 The idea of having monsters spawn with branded weapons is good, and we do some of that already - there are some monsters where their branded loot is explicitly intended to be a lure to kill them. Donald is a classic example (for his shield), Azrael has a nice little scimitar of flaming, the Enchantress has her faerie dragon armour, and so on. 10:54:19 As you said, though, ?brand is quite rare - we wouldn't be able to add very many branded weapons on monsters to compensate if we removed it, since it is so rare, and we'd lose out on the fun little minigame of figuring out what and when to brand, and whether it's worth trying to reroll (say) vorpal into freezing or somesuch. 11:08:51 I agree, branding does add character. Which is why I thought a generic "branding" scroll could add a limited brands to armor. rF+, rN+, rCorr, etc. I agree that brands like "running" or "reflection" would probably be a it much. Kind of like the how "holy" brand can't be acquired w/ ?brand weapon. Adding a bit of character. Just food for thought. :) 11:11:28 And leave the unique characters with their gear. Like Donald's shield of reflection, or Cerebov's Sword, as you mentioned. 11:11:36 It's an appealing idea, but it raises a lot of questions. (1) Many brands are limited by armour type - outside of special cases (ice caves/volcanos), non-body-armour slots can't generate with rC/rF. How would brand armour work with those? 11:12:40 (2) Even in body armour, some types can't ever spawn with egos. (e.g. dragon scales). How would that interact with the new scroll? They'd be much more powerful if they were branded. 11:14:11 (3) Probably most important - is this fun? Branding weapons is a tradeoff and a gamble. You're often losing an existing ego and hoping for a better one. Armour egos are rarer and more unambiguously/straightforwardly positive. What are the interesting situations and fun decisions you'd make with this brand armour mode? 11:14:23 Perhaps limiting brands to body armor, (robes, plate, crystal, etc.) instead of "accessories" items (like gloves, shoes, helmets, etc.) 11:17:33 The build passed. (master - 5e20511 #12727 : Byrel Mitchell): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/652528750 11:22:17 Oh, for example, if one were to find a vanilla piece of armor, being able to add a brand to an armor to suit a particular play strategies. Like, maybe branding some armor with +rF or +rPoison to deal with various branches. Randart armor limits a player's ability to enchant it, as well, where, for example, a player might find (crystal plate, leather, etc) and buff up the enchantment, and add a brand, just like being able to brand a 11:22:18 weapon. An alternative to resorting to using an artifact item. Something a player can build/craft on their own. 11:23:34 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-93-ge536e68a2c 11:23:40 Like, when a player finds a vanilla weapon, and can build on it with brands it and enchantments. 11:25:05 It gives a sense of satisfaction, vs just finding a randart. Like you said, kind of a "mini-game" character. 12:24:17 hi Pinkbeast 12:28:31 if the chances of getting running were small enough i don't think it's so clear cut to take the long shot over the surer thing every time 12:28:54 (3) is pretty compelling though. imo 13:48:34 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:13:47 ebering: thanks 15:14:55 gammafunk: ebering: thanks for the contributor feedback also. I'll see what I can do 15:22:04 !tell pleasingfungus re the error you spotted: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1289 15:22:04 alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 15:25:32 New branch created: pull/1289 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1289 15:25:32 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1289 * 0.25-a0-543-gcf63c4d: Create ~/.ccache if needed 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf63c4dbd8c1 15:33:38 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 {ebering} 07* 0.25-a0-543-g450b280: Create ~/.ccache if needed 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/450b2806fe86 15:47:52 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-543-g450b2806fe (34) 15:53:23 ty 16:08:28 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-544-gee05763: A new octopode splash screen from Nibiki 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ee0576305db0 16:17:56 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-544-gee0576305d (34) 16:57:09 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1269 * 0.25-a0-406-g4a85261: Auto-detect python/python3 for species-gen.py 10(55 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4a85261456ac 16:57:09 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1269 * 0.25-a0-407-g6f585e1: Make species-gen.py py2-compatible 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f585e19e9d5 17:07:57 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1269 * 0.25-a0-544-g3cce1e0: Make species-gen.py work with Python 2 & 3 10(6 weeks ago, 3 files, 26+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3cce1e0c8304 17:34:11 aidanh: I've addressed all your webtiles PR comments, will check the full diff again myself later today 17:34:56 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1253 * 0.25-a0-429-gbbc4195: webtiles: more cleanup (aidanh) 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 18+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbc41955f853 18:22:39 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-544-gee0576305d (34) 19:17:42 -!- cjm_ is now known as cjm 20:51:02 .win 2 20:57:09 !cmd .win 20:57:09 No command .win 20:57:14 rip? 21:00:50 irssi rip 21:04:07 i didn't remember spotting an error... 21:04:07 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:04:18 ty for fixing it tho! 21:21:09 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:07:54 ??potion of stabbing 23:07:54 I don't have a page labeled potion_of_stabbing in my learndb.