02:10:40 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-479-g8579842 02:48:42 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-443-g80245de 03:11:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-479-g8579842 (34) 03:30:59 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2937-g6dcc57c99b 04:36:12 Evablue (L21 NaFi) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 223: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Vaults:2) 04:38:25 BunnyKimber (L7 TrMo) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 223: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:5) 06:47:25 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 07:02:21 Sequell is gone from ##crawl. 11:21:31 "BoM is one of the weaker bolt spells, but this is ok. If it turns out to be really unacceptably bad to not have a stronger bolt spell, BoM can be buffed in some way." 11:21:31 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:22:48 I can see an argument for some spells being intentionally weaker than others. In some games, you might only encounter weaker spells, forcing you to adjust your playstyle & thus increasing variety. In general, though, Crawl's magic system tends to encourage players to only use the strongest spells they encounter, which means that known 'weaker' 11:22:49 spells like Bolt of Magma just go unused. If we've known that bolt of magma was weak, which IIRC the consensus was it's been for the last umpteen years, why not just tweak up the damage a bit? 11:23:21 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-91-gf373564dc4 11:32:59 PleasingFungus: Presumably the idea now is that bolt of magma won't go unused because it is now the strongest bolt spell as well as the weakest 11:33:29 not fully convinced that 'bolt spell' is an essential enough niche for it to see use 11:33:48 'ranged damage', 'multi-target damage', these are important roles 11:34:10 but of course many other spells match those descriptions 11:34:21 and 'bolt' specifically does not seem essential 11:36:01 you could also argue that if fire is supposed to be 'explodey/DoT' and earth is supposed to be 'directed' and mostly single target, BoM doesn't fit in *either* school's philosophy 11:37:00 it's just "55% damage" 11:37:06 *55% red damage 11:37:45 I'm just saying I think that's the rationale, not that I necessarily agree with it. 11:38:19 sure, that's fair - hope I didn't come across as jumping down your throat 11:38:26 good to have multiple sides to a discussion :) 15:00:10 aidanh: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/DCSS-Servers-overview -- CPO is Ubuntu 16.04 LTS 16:00:15 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-480-ga45ed2c: Fix some vault item definitions (#12191) 10(83 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a45ed2c2fa6a 16:00:15 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-481-g37d6d75: Fix Warlock's Mirror not reflecting piercing ranged weapons (#12142) 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/37d6d75d0a77 16:00:15 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-482-g9b3b753: Improve armour AC change descriptions 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9b3b753f3f4b 16:18:18 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-482-g9b3b753f3f (34) 17:19:34 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 18:22:44 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-482-g9b3b753f3f (34) 18:31:30 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:31:44 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:32:29 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:32:58 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:33:29 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:08 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:15 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:17 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:19 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:20 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:34:23 Erg (L16 FoFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 471 failed. (D (Sprint)) 18:39:20 uh oh 18:39:45 pretty good bunch of crashes imo 18:39:56 it would be good to have a save backup 18:48:08 New branch created: shieldreform (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/shieldreform 18:48:09 03PleasingFungus02 07[shieldreform] * 0.25-a0-480-gca9fc5a: Rename large shield -> pavise 10(4 hours ago, 77 files, 112+ 112-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca9fc5ac96d6 18:48:09 03PleasingFungus02 07[shieldreform] * 0.25-a0-481-g8322e1f: Rename shield -> hoplon 10(5 minutes ago, 122 files, 126+ 126-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8322e1f2f001 18:53:37 New branch created: pull/1277 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1277 18:53:37 Branch pull/1277 updated to be equal with shieldreform: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1277 18:53:51 rename shields -> medium shields :P 18:54:29 that would have been a lot less work 18:54:30 i think this removes clarity for players in order to improve the experience of people posting CIP posts 18:54:36 what's a cip 18:55:02 character in progress aka the sort of queries you referred to in the large shield commit 18:55:32 possible 18:56:04 I also think this logic would apply to crossbows. 18:56:06 i like pavise but i don't really like hoplon 18:56:17 "I'm using a crossbow" "what sort of crossbow?" 18:56:26 alexjurkiewicz: thankfully we don't have crossbows 18:56:34 only hand crossbows, arablests, and triple crossbows 18:56:43 yes, i renamed them for that exact reason 18:56:53 many years ago 18:56:57 it was you! 18:56:58 also do we have hand crossbows again? 18:57:03 yes 18:57:06 oh right i did that 18:57:07 oops 18:57:20 i'm basically senile 18:57:32 anyway, yeah, can see hoplon -> medium shield or something 18:57:43 kite shield 18:58:37 I added it to the PR so it wouldn't get lost 18:58:37 but 18:58:41 *triple shield* 18:58:47 wow 18:59:10 that's so many shields, ebering 18:59:10 most people don't even have one... feels very unjust 18:59:55 good chant for occupy wall st. "we are the holders-of-the-modal-number-of-shields" 19:00:10 problem with medium shield is it's very long, though not much longer than large shield 19:02:10 what if it was kiteshield, one word 19:02:55 <|amethyst> aww, I like "scutum" for large shield, but I guess "pavise" fits faux-mediaeval better 19:03:05 <|amethyst> also, "pavise" is less likely to induce giggles 19:03:29 hence also not using 'aspis' 19:03:38 scutum definitely a classic fun word 19:03:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-483-g6f036f9: Fix Dith's Shadow Mimic for Teleport Other (joemaro) 10(48 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f036f9bbcaa 19:03:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-484-gb7f6864: Refactor some vault loot statements 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7f6864ba138 19:05:16 also hi |amethyst! 19:05:41 <|amethyst> hi, welcome back! 19:05:51 i plan to vanish again without warning at some point 19:05:51 <|amethyst> The prodigal son returns 19:06:02 <|amethyst> worked for me :) 19:06:16 :) 19:06:27 do you have an opinion on the great and very reasonable hoplon issue 19:06:55 <|amethyst> "hoplon" is kind of obscure, I agree 19:08:37 kiteshield is sort of specific and slightly long, but i'm currently net positive on it 19:08:48 <|amethyst> "kite shield" (with or without a space) is in a reasonable number of other games so I think is reasonable 19:08:51 i wish heater shields had a name that wasn't so victorian and dumb 19:10:04 <|amethyst> aren't those the special tiles they put on the space shuttle so it doesn't burn up on reentry? 19:10:32 lol 19:13:05 alexjurkiewicz: hoplon -> kite shield? (-> kiteshield?) 19:13:55 i prefer kite shield to hoplon! 19:14:10 how about vs shield 19:14:15 <|amethyst> I do prefer the space 19:14:21 it still has shield in the name, which satisfies my "new players know what it is" desire 19:14:27 sweet 19:14:35 ty for objecting! i think you were right that hoplon was too obscure 19:15:00 i didn't like it much either but i had tunnel vision 19:15:04 <3 19:15:11 no YOU'RE great 19:15:32 <|amethyst> And I think it's not unreasonable to have obscure names for the top tier 19:15:57 <|amethyst> viz. fustibalus 19:17:00 ??wontdo | grep triple 19:17:00 I don't have a page labeled wontdo_|_grep_triple in my learndb. 19:17:53 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-484-gb7f6864ba1 (34) 19:30:27 ??wontdo[triple 19:30:27 I don't have a page labeled wontdo[triple in my learndb. 19:30:38 PleasingFungus: I'm serious about triple shield 19:31:35 are you 19:34:23 tension between unusual names for top tier items and the desire to nae everything "triple x" 19:36:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.25-a0-485-g9ae4f58: Rename large shield -> pavise 10(5 hours ago, 77 files, 112+ 112-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ae4f581c478 19:36:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.25-a0-486-g9aada81: Rename shield -> kite shield 10(54 minutes ago, 122 files, 126+ 126-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9aada8127aa9 19:37:12 I'm not sure if I'm more serious than you are but yes alexjurkiewicz has identified the tension in my soul 19:37:19 we'll go with I'm not as serious as you 19:38:09 someday i'll decide if i'm serious or not 19:38:11 not today 19:51:13 just so we're clear, he wasn't serious about giving dragon form a spellpower enhancer to dragon's call 19:51:35 oh god i'd forgotten that 19:51:57 some people here just hate fun... 19:52:14 (more dragons = more fun) 20:13:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-486-g9aada8127a (34) 20:15:31 hm, i think i missed a spot 20:15:34 (shield of the gong tile name) 20:15:34 GONNNNG! 20:15:35 fixing 20:51:54 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.25-a0-487-gc70b7ad: Fix some unrand shield player tiles 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c70b7ad80ad3 20:52:19 Tile 'pavise_of_ignorance' for part 'BODY' not found in 'dc-player.txt'.Tile 'kite_shield_bullseye' for part 'BODY' not found in 'dc-player.txt'.I spent 45min and I can't figure out how to fix this... 20:52:24 I assume it's some obvious typo somewhere 20:52:35 help welcomed 20:55:01 oh god i found it 20:55:18 good news: we still support caps 21:03:03 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-487-gc70b7ad80a (34) 21:03:44 I always get that shield 21:03:55 the (formerly large shield, now pavise) of ignorance 21:06:05 some say soon it'll be a tower shield 21:06:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.25-a0-488-g03579ab: Fix unrand pavise player tiles 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/03579ab4a3a4 21:07:07 !tell gammafunk 03579ab4a3 has some extremely goodcode 21:07:07 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 21:17:54 %git 03579ab4a3 21:17:54 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.25-a0-488-g03579ab: Fix unrand pavise player tiles 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/03579ab4a3a4 21:17:54 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:17:54 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-488-g03579ab4a3 (34) 21:17:54 how dare you ignore me, Cheibriados 21:18:10 oh that's just the latest 21:18:52 heh, pretty hi tech 21:20:11 what if we add a new body armor subtype, HATCH_FOR_POOP 21:20:17 there will be bugs 21:34:10 ebering: here is my proposal for a positional spell rework. dragon's call -> triple dragon. It summons three dragons around every enemy and they IMMEDIATELY attack 22:11:04 that guy who found some sort of lua exploit pinged reddit modmail again 22:11:19 I told him to try here 22:11:37 New branch created: pull/1278 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1278 22:11:37 03theJollySin02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1278 * 0.25-a0-479-g1dc4644: Reimagining Robe of Augmentation as a ghostly shroud 10(12 minutes ago, 14 files, 21+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1dc464411b13 22:11:47 (did we ever replicate that?) 22:12:34 anyways, he wants us to do some kind of formal security process involving cves or whatever 22:12:45 the whole thing has a very odd feel to it 22:12:56 like, maybe try working on a patch if you're so concerned 22:13:53 triple dragon <<<<< double dragon 22:13:54 I guess if I were active I'm the one who'd most likely be trying to fix it (but tbh that's just not something I'm going to work on right now) 22:14:26 wait, shield is in there twice 22:14:47 i'd fix this but i'd have to learn perl 22:15:36 this bug is (need a dev account to view): https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12163&nbn=3#bugnotes 22:16:03 anyways, this person may show up here and/or make it public in some other way if we don't do anything 22:16:23 from mantis, maybe aidanh is the most likely to do something? 22:16:26 if this person is a security researcher or wants to be, CVE is good for their resume, which would be why they are pushing to make it formal 22:16:37 can you describe the effect of this exploit? Does it allow local shell? 22:16:37 seems like a pretty good exploit imo 22:16:41 yes 22:16:46 supposedly 22:17:11 iirc amalloy (the only one who tried) couldn't get it to work 22:17:22 ok. I guess I'll leave user lua enabled for now. Is there a command line option I can give to disable it though hmmm 22:17:46 alexjurkiewicz I guess if this is a real exploit you may be the most vulnerable in that you are the only server without a chroot 22:17:52 the real problem is old crawl versions 22:18:06 not that a chroot really is a good security measure 22:18:22 i mean, i did get it to cause a segfault. going from that to ACE is probably not hard for someone who knows what they're doing 22:18:22 given a few servers were DoSed by the "apocalypserobin bug", I'm inclined to be security conscious here 22:18:48 that one is super easy to trigger 22:18:56 (still is) 22:19:07 yeah hence " 22:21:56 hm, there's no way to disable user lua, and it doesn't look straight forward to add a command line option to do so (if user lua is compiled in, it's on) 22:22:48 I believe that this bug is entirely prevented by disabling loadstring 22:23:10 which isn't needed for clua (it is used for dlua I think) 22:24:44 but we may not even be able to compile some of the old versions of crawl on a server like cao 22:26:50 yeah, I'm not sure we can realistically do anything about those old versions 22:26:58 other than simply disabling them 22:27:33 unless someone makes a project that somehow brings those old codebases up to current compiler standards, or something 22:28:09 and by current compilers, I mean the worst compiler we have on any of our current servers 22:29:01 maybe just asking admins to not run such old versions of crawl is the answer, but for that to work, we'd have to support something like trunk, stable, and stable-1 I guess? 22:30:28 possibly old stuff would build better than I'm imagining on linux, especially on a setup like cao's 22:30:44 it would be nice to deprecate some of the old cao version though 22:30:57 it's happened once before on that server, but a very long time ago 22:32:24 probably the scoring changes? 22:32:34 when we moved to 15 runes max 22:32:50 predates my involvement for sure 22:33:21 hmm it would be nice if cao scoring had some better version stats, if only there were a dev who knew how to do that 22:33:37 careful! what if you spend another week working on cao scoring! 22:33:39 ah that seems likely 22:34:24 my sabbatical is over, I cannot do that again 22:34:24 agree that per-version scores would be very nice 22:34:54 maybe we can get advil's university to do a poll on whether he deserves a second sabbatical??? 22:34:59 post it to the reddit 22:35:46 (when people ask what I did on my sabbatical, which they do, I do not actually tell them, I fixed the scoring db for a game on the internet) 22:35:52 haha if only that's what it took 22:36:50 hm, if you disable clua autofight will stop working, I think 22:36:51 I wonder if in the near term (not immediately) it would make sense to push cao versions up to something like 0.16 22:37:18 yeah, once upon a time disabling all clua might have been possible but I suspect it's gonna cause some big problems 22:39:29 we'd also have to ask cbro to do something similar 22:39:37 should be fairly easy for johnstein to disable those, though 22:39:49 he currently goes back to 0.13 22:39:52 oh yeah cbro goes back further than I thought 22:41:04 likewise cwz has a bunch of old versions, actually going back to 0.10 (a korean translation patch of it, even) 22:41:21 so we'd have to recommend to hong to remove some of those 22:41:36 I wonder if his patch was a compilation change for 0.10 and 0.11 22:41:42 er 0.10 and 0.12 22:41:52 they are labeled as k_0.10 and k_0.12 22:42:26 I have a feeling he may have compiled those himself, but maybe they were just database text changes 22:42:47 ah, and cxc has back to 0.14 22:43:04 woah, cue back to 0.10 22:43:30 so I guess we'd have to ask a bunch of admins to cut those older versions or maybe give them a patch to apply/recompile themselves if they wanted 22:44:08 but I guess going forward for security bugs, it'd be ideal to not have official support for such old versions 22:44:39 my in-development patch to build webtiles as docker images fixes all of this 22:46:01 does it? are you talking about having all admins roll out a docker setup? 22:46:27 that would probably be as likely as getting them to update to GCC 9 22:46:46 if so, we've been down that road before, and anyone starting a container-based project has made the container thingy then disappeared when we mentioned that for it to do any good 22:46:52 they'd need to work with admins to roll it out 22:47:13 but it does provide a pathway for server operators to run ancient versions without needing an ancient development environment on the base OS 22:47:43 oh, well you said "fixes all of this" 22:48:19 that does sound like a potential fix for the case of admins wanting to run ancient versions, but there's still the issue of us supporting patches to these ancient versions in the first place 22:48:37 some new security issue comes out, do we want to go trawling through 0.10 source to make a patch to address it? 22:49:01 yeah. ultimately that is the first step 22:49:08 trawling is perhaps not the correct word choice, but you catch my meaning 22:50:52 I think if the fix is disabling loadstring for clua, a patch won't be so complicated 22:51:19 and will touch only very-rarely-changed parts of crawlcode 22:51:25 (to be clear I don't immediately know how to do that) 22:52:54 for a different fix it might be entirely different...any of the ideas I had for mitigating dos-like effects of huge numbers of turns would be a different scenario, next-to-impossible to backport very far