02:10:24 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-474-ga8a2ee3 02:48:33 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-443-g80245de 03:45:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:54:35 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2937-g6dcc57c99b 10:44:01 I have been playing with vaults lately, and have a couple of PRs. Anyway, I have been playing around with making an unrandart. But I can't quite figure something out. 10:44:38 The Horn of Geryon is an unrandart that can only be acquired in one way. How do I make such a lock-down, so a new unrandart is not generally findable through a Scroll of Acquirement, or what-have-you? 10:45:21 I am playing around with adding a small posibility of using a runed door of a player vault as an unrandart shield. 10:54:35 I think the first thing to note is that the Horn is not (implementation-wise) an unrand - it doesn't appear in art-data.txt 10:54:35 there is a vault for maxwells sword that spawns a demon blade when maxwells thermic engine already spawned 10:54:36 that might be more appropriate 10:55:27 theres also the vaults for staff of lgreb and shield of ignorance. not sure what those do when their artefact already spawned. although those are early vaults so maybe Dungeon seed already accounted for those artefact if those vault are spawned? 10:56:22 Okay, I can check how these are done. 10:56:34 It might be nobody likes my little unrandart, obviously. 11:01:08 But I think if there is a ~1/1000 change you open a player ghost vault door, the door itself drops and you can pick it up as some awesome shield... would entice players who should know better to open ghost vaults. 11:01:41 According to a couple of fun data scientists on Reddit, player ghosts are one of the most common causes of player death. I though... cool, let's play with that. 11:03:22 keep in mind that data is from before they were put into ghost vaults 11:03:22 seems spoilery 11:03:38 /win 7 11:11:38 Heliophobic: After we made ghosts mostly harmless in another way, we've been eagerly waiting for orc priests to move into the #2 killer spot 11:16:11 Hmmm.... is that a "no" vote on the idea, then? I can't tell. If so, I might as well find out now. 11:16:45 Heliophobic: your design doesn't incentivise opening ghost vaults *when they're encountered* 11:16:54 That's true. 11:17:00 since 1) putting on a shield takes time so you won't do it to fight the ghost early 11:17:33 2) players would just come back later and clean up all the ghost vaults, looking for the nice shield 11:17:35 and 2) a character for which a totally awesome shield is the difference in survival in the next floor is a character that's gonna get stomped by the ghost even if they could put the shield on 11:17:37 unless you really need a shield at the moment and are willing to take the risk... 11:18:18 I was thinking it would have a base 'large shield' since it is, you know, a door. 11:18:30 the reason ghosts used to be a top killer is that the ghost of an XL7 character has a good chance at stomping an XL7 character 11:18:32 So most early players couldn't wear it anyway. 11:18:39 er, one of those should be ghosts 11:19:12 Also; in terms of incentivising tedium (opening all ghost vaults because you want the shield), and spoilers (what about other runed doors) it's not i na good place 11:19:23 ok 11:23:30 Players would just come back and clean up all the ghost vaults> doesn't Hypothetically Optimal Man do that anyway? 11:23:35 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-91-gf373564dc4 11:28:19 A nice unrandart electric weapon that hurts you if you're standing in water? 11:30:15 A quick blade that can confuse your target? A holy blade that hurts you if you do something TSO wouldn't like? 11:30:26 I'll work on it. 11:31:15 Pinkbeast: Hypothetically Optimal Man definitely does that already. 11:33:22 unrand electric> I fear that's how the arc blade used to work 11:33:57 An unrand large shield you can leave behind _as_ a closed door :-) 11:35:05 Heliophobic: check out the unrand review article on the dev wiki 11:35:15 We've got a lot of bland unrands that could use reimagining 12:29:43 I can't find this 'unrand review article'. But I can look at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/List_of_unrands to see some of our less-interesting unrands. 12:31:33 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Unrand-Review 12:31:55 Thanks 12:44:07 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:16:51 Last one, I promise. 13:17:12 Should 'small' species that start as Fighters start with bucklers instead of shields? 13:17:31 Playing a SpFi is hard enough, but trying to get past that 21 skill shield is pretty rough. 13:21:11 well, the best strat for Ha/Ko isn't to try to get to 21 shields 13:21:33 it's a pretty low priority to fully remove shield penalties 13:22:16 alsp SpFi is a really strong combo, since Sp are really strong (their movement speed makes it trivial to avoid death) 13:22:20 *also 13:23:38 Hmm... I am, perhaps, just a bad player. I have also tried HaFi several times, and up until ~D:6 I find a buckler helps with my already crappy attack speed. 13:23:58 So perhaps that is a personal playstyle or weakness. 14:42:58 i wonder if "give small Fi a buckler instead of a shield" is worth putting on a list somewhere. it doesn't really fit the wont-do list, i think, but players constantly suggest it as a buff when it's more of a nerf 14:58:38 21 skill? what's that about? isn't it 4 for bucklers, 15 for regular shields, and 25 for large shields? 14:58:58 size modifier 14:59:02 oh, it's 21 if you're small 14:59:02 I see 16:17:23 Crash when opening the closed gate to the Realm of Zot in the Ten rune challenge Dungeon Sprint 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12192 by fra_c 17:20:35 ooh hm, i hadn't seen that unrand idea page before but i honestly kinda like the suggestion of morg giving perma-lichform on equip and making it fragile 17:23:45 heh 17:23:58 I assume you'd lose lich form upon breaking? 17:24:26 one thing I don't really like about these ideas is that the weapon itself is really irrelevant 17:24:38 it'd function better as just some kind of unrand evoker 17:25:18 dagger of pain isn't irrelevant, of course, but characters who actually want to permanently be a lich don't tend to want to use pain dagger melee 17:26:05 hmm possibly yeah... i kinda like it being almost-but-not-quite permanent by being a fragile item, but yeah, locking out your weapon slot isn't great 17:30:30 was also thinking that maybe bloodbane and leech could be merged, taking the always-active-vampiric from leech and the *rage from bloodbane (since the former maybe helps compensate for the latter) 17:31:46 @??maggie 17:31:46 unknown monster: "maggie" 17:36:01 i'm also curious if maxwell's etheric cage is any good, i guess it got changed a while ago to boost MP regen quite substantially? but i don't know if it quite qualifies as good or interesting enough 17:46:04 ??maxwell's etheric cage 17:46:12 maxwell's etheric cage[1/1]: +0 rElec helmet that greatly increases MP regen but also multiplies contam gained by 2. Miscasts, haste and invisibility combined with this artifact are very likely to mutate you. 17:48:31 yeah, it's not that great 19:23:03 03PleasingFungus02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.25-a0-475-gaca3a16: Cigotuvi's Embrace, unrand body armour 10(5 days ago, 6 files, 142+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aca3a16f85c6 19:23:03 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-476-g910574c: Tweak god conducts for Cigotuvi's Embrace (PleasingFungus) 10(73 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/910574c32662 19:23:03 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-477-g6e9f9c6: Give Cigotuvi's Embrace *Curse (hellmonk) 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e9f9c6944bd 19:43:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-477-g6e9f9c6944 (34) 20:11:46 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 20:34:49 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:40:58 It seems there is no way to check your spell list when you're in acquirement menu. We need extra spell colouring in spellbook description meaning a spell in your library. 21:14:14 Yermak, I *love* the new acquirement, but have felt that it would benefit from being able to double-check *everything* that you have already got when choosing something to acquire. Such that I'm in a habit of refreshing my character dump before picking up a scroll that is, or may be, a scroll of acquirement, in case I need to double-check what all is already available. 23:14:14 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_