01:07:21 Webtiles server stopped. 01:07:21 Webtiles server started. 02:34:32 unwon command is bugged: 02:34:38 !unwon . ce 02:34:48 Unwon playable chars (ce): 0/1072x CeAr [0.00%], 0/1400x CeCj [0.00%], 0/3393x CeTm [0.00%], 0/4357x CeWr [0.00%], 0/6102x CeBe [0.00%], 0/8409x CeGl [0.00%] 02:35:02 I didn't try and fail to win CeGl 8409 times. 02:46:04 !cmd !unwon 02:46:05 Command: !unwon => !lg * !experimental playable $(ignore $1)$* s=char title:"Unwon playable chars$(argst $*)" stub:"All playable chars have been won$(argst $*)" / won $(if $1 @$1) ?: N=0 02:46:37 !lg yermak cear / won 02:46:38 0/2 games for yermak (cear): N=0/2 (0.00%) 02:46:43 :O 02:53:51 message_colour rc option is broken. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12143 by Yermak 02:59:11 Tiles for clouds of wisps of flame are renewed upon x-cursor changing its position. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12144 by Yermak 03:22:27 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-246-g58704a1 (34) 03:30:56 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-2777-g6b872f2bae 03:33:15 ebering: why does foxfire move so fast? It makes it sort of hard to track and understand as different from a non-instantaneous spell 03:51:02 alexjurkiewicz: i think it's supposed to be sorta close to instantaneous. the distinction i see is that you have to have adjacent spaces near you that have a path to the enemy 03:53:34 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-1737-g4f21e5b33c 03:56:41 I also like how casting it in a corridor makes you unable to retreat for a few turns. Kinda fun. 04:02:33 i wonder what that guy on reddit meant by "Foxfire needs to be swappable" 04:02:58 like, you should be able to swap positions with it? not being able to is the whole point 04:30:24 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:35:35 03sdynet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1212 * 0.25-a0-168-ged4b72a: Fix Ely's Divine Protection always protects at 120 piety. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed4b72ac222b 08:47:25 amalloy_: I suspect that is exactly what they mean, ime there was a sort of learning experience the first time you cast it in a corridor with an enemy nearby that wasn't extremely fun, and would trigger that kind of reaction 10:03:56 you caan swap with it 10:03:59 it just hits you 10:05:36 alexjurkiewicz: amalloy has the right idea with why its so fast 10:56:56 New Sting doesn't always poison targets with rPois 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12145 by kitchen_ace 11:02:36 welp, it turns out that cao scoring was systematically discarding the first logline on daemon restart if there were any new loglines 11:24:21 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-91-gf373564dc4 11:44:17 03advil02 07* 0.25-a0-247-g3ee35ab: Clarify Sting description (12145 / kitchen_ace) 10(68 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ee35aba1eb7 11:45:07 advil: "stringer" 11:45:22 from Goratrix on discord 11:45:52 03advil02 07* 0.25-a0-248-g18654cf: stringer -> stinger (ebering) 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/18654cfe1597 11:46:47 didn't see your second msg before committing 11:46:51 oh well 11:47:40 but even things with just normal rPois aren't always poisoned, i.e. jellies, slimes, imps... 11:48:08 which I assume they should be based on the description 11:48:12 that might be a bug then, I only checked against zombies 11:48:36 https://imgur.com/1QtKUcl.png 11:49:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-247-g3ee35aba1e (34) 11:53:26 that might be a bug 11:53:31 I'll take a look in a little bit 11:54:06 I'll add the image to the mantis report 11:54:09 thanks 11:55:34 yes, I think there's a bug, poison_monster has another resist check; poison arrow overcame it by setting levels to 4 11:55:48 so the call to poison_monster effectively does nothing 12:03:19 hm, maybe that's wrong 12:04:19 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-248-g18654cfe15 (34) 12:06:49 %git monster_resists_this_poison 12:06:49 Could not find commit monster_resists_this_poison (git returned 128) 12:06:50 er 12:06:54 $git 3cb921fa5982 12:06:59 %git 3cb921fa5982 12:06:59 07ebering02 * 0.25-a0-225-g3cb921f: Positional magic 🐍: Revise Sting 10(3 weeks ago, 5 files, 14+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3cb921fa5982 12:07:36 did I just misunderstand what the spell is supposed to do? the `if (pbolt.origin_spell != SPELL_STING)` seems to not apply poison to resistant monsters for sting 12:08:00 yeah that was what I was about to say 12:08:35 and partly why I'm unsure what the intended behaviour is 12:10:29 and even without that line, it passes (int) stacks / 2 to poison_monster, which I think ends up being 0 for sting 12:10:37 yes, it would 12:12:03 that's something that got lost in a rebase shuffle :/ 12:12:10 I had meant to use div_rand_round there 12:12:52 is the conditional intended? 12:12:52 I'll push a fix in a little bit 12:12:52 ok 12:12:58 it went through two iterations; the first used the conditional 12:13:17 the second conditioned stacks on the spell and then switched to div rand rounding 12:13:27 just double check the description I pushed too (if you use div_rand_round it needs a "may") 12:13:37 will do 12:16:22 it might just be better to max stacks at 1, if you kept the old sting to hit 12:35:31 ebering's reflog is a scary place! 13:14:43 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:15:48 ebering: tried out positional magic last night as a NaFE btw. foxfire seems pretty good for a level 1 spell, and i found it fun to play with 13:16:08 i guess i made the positioning harder on myself by playing Na 14:13:09 amalloy: cool 17:12:15 svalbard (L17 OpAs) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Desolation) 17:38:18 !crashlog 17:38:37 21459. svalbard, XL17 OpAs, T:32269 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.23/svalbard/crash-svalbard-20191203-221156.txt 18:06:39 Can someone kick off my fork? *sigh* Sorry. 18:22:50 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-248-g18654cfe15 (34) 18:25:07 i don't remember the last time i've seen a crash caused by putting on a ring 18:27:06 it looks like it was just trying to write a byte. maybe some error in the file operation? 18:29:08 putting on a ring maybe not, but my take on that was "oh a shopping list crash" 18:29:52 it's also a few versions old 18:30:08 oh, so it is. i didn't know shopping list crashes were common anyway 18:30:20 possibly the ring was in some inconsistent state by being mid-wear-id during the level excursion? 18:30:37 they are not uncommon 18:31:01 maybe "level excursion crash" is the best category 18:33:30 too bad it's not 0.24, that would probably be replicable using the seed + just finding all the plausible ring types in stores 18:33:56 "a few versions old" = last version 19:57:24 ancient history, didn't you read dynast's post 21:26:35 I did read that post 21:26:41 I found it kind of hard to follow 21:29:25 what does "total lack of respect for the game's meta" even mean? 21:30:54 There's another odd one about voting on changes where, eh, if the OP wants Gooncrawl it's right there 21:31:10 yes, I commented in that one 21:31:23 I think that is just someone who hasn't seen these cycles before 21:31:27 oh, the glorious history of dcss forks where the players vote and it fixes all the problems 21:31:54 including that one that basically died after a month or two 21:32:31 and yeah, as someone who's been involved with dev since 2013 can attest, this is a very mild iteration of said cycles 21:33:09 the nastiness during the LRD changes was significantly worse imo, but even that wasn't much in the end 21:33:26 yeah, and stuff like haste spell removal 21:33:34 in fact I think the recentness of that is making me forget of stuff that happened in the pre 0.21 versions, yeah 21:33:41 haste removal, yellow wand removals 21:33:50 removal of rmut/clarity, etc 21:34:28 purple chunks 21:34:29 nothing really compares to the removal of Forest where we actually lost two highly active devs 21:34:32 right 21:34:48 we actually lost three devs, althogh r-i did sort of return a bit off and on 21:35:07 although I believe the high water mark is still MD removal 21:35:48 that predates me, so maybe that's more of a legend of player revolt than an actuality of it 21:36:11 yeah, I mentioned that in my post; interestingly I was just thinking about that in the context of http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/date-stats.png where in fact MD removal is a gateway to the steady climb towards our current playerbase plateau 21:36:47 I mean, hard to test a counterfactual, but not a lot of evidence there that MD removal damaged the player community 21:37:49 I've always just thought that we'd have to introduce some drastic new technology to see growth like the during the 0.9 days 21:37:58 webtiles was such a big development 21:38:33 yeah, my guess is that the plateau is because of the ways in which we don't do anything resembling advertising or conventional video game distribution 21:39:00 something like the carrying capacity for a game of this sort in the world without those 21:39:33 there is that as well, yeah; I guess being an open source roguelike with the slower pace of dev that volunteers bring means it can be a challenge to see a lot of growth 21:39:33 honestly if we did expand at that rate again our infrastructure would keel over 21:39:33 hehe 21:39:58 one of us just needs to get rich and buy a lot of infrastructure and dedicate themselves as a *real* head dev 21:40:14 heh 21:40:32 it is interesting hearing some of the stories coming from the CDDA community 21:40:40 some things sound very similar to what we've gone through 21:41:38 how so? I don't know much about that game 21:42:12 very different game (open world survival roguelike), but open source and pretty big now, with a lead dev in the sense that he took over the project and has been managing it nicely 21:42:42 is active about merging community stuff but is pretty no-nonsense and not tolerating of rude people 21:43:05 so he and the project is a frequent target of trolls from the usual places 21:43:51 I don't actually play the game myself, since it's not my cup of tea 21:44:09 ah I see 21:57:59 That guy with the voting thing was actually proposing a worse idea than normal: crawl devs still come up with the ideas but then players vote on whether they should be implemented 21:58:14 Hard to imagine anything getting done that way 21:58:18 heh 21:59:50 heh yeah 22:00:02 I think the cxc thing was doing that, ish? 22:00:06 hahahaha I think I accidentally enabled seeded mode on the servers via rc file at some point 22:00:12 anyways, it works! 22:01:09 is that a distinct game type, like sprint? 22:01:12 yeah 22:01:33 so admins need to add a link for it? 22:01:33 I realized it because someone messaged me asking if I knew where to find the morgue, and then I did find it ... on cbro 22:01:57 you can start a seeded game just by setting `game_seed = x` in your rc file, is the accident 22:02:06 ah 22:02:16 for more than that they do need to add a link, I've been planning on enabling it on cao soon anyways 22:02:19 hrm, well in that case...wouldn't the seeded game go into the main log file? 22:02:23 nope 22:02:28 it uses its own logfile 22:02:30 oh, cool 22:02:50 right, crawl binary internally sees the game type and knows to use a different file 22:03:16 yeah...that part is all tested out locally and should be fine 22:03:23 + on cpo 22:03:46 I *was* planning on gradually setting it up on cao in a staged way where I could monitor it, but this way works too 22:07:45 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 22:10:47 About Dynast: despite being an extremely strong player, really likes thematic play styles and options. The "meta" comment is, I think, a lament about game balance taking precedent over letting people play how they want. 22:11:02 at least that's how I read it, I'm not entirely sure and I don't want to put words in his mouth 22:12:43 it seemed like his exact take was evolving a bit 22:13:41 well, I've found them to be a profoundly negative person for a very long time, kind of escalating when they got banned from tavern 22:14:09 was just constantly taking pot shots at every change with little rhyme or reason behind it other than wanting to express negativity 22:14:46 so I blocked them not too long after said tavern ban and haven't conversed with them since aside from a short period when we were both playing infra arcana 22:15:19 what I think is that a certain type of player will play the game incessently and certainly become very good at it, but also become progressively more negative and looking for reasons to express that 22:17:21 so I think it's fine to glean what you can by people like that who routinely make these "done with the game" posts (often a given person makes then every few months) 22:17:31 the "devs propose, players vote" model is from old school runescape, where devs post frequent polls that require 70% approval(!!!) for ideas to be implemented 22:17:32 but I would not take the existance of these people or these posts as anything too profound 22:18:16 I mean, if it works for a project, it works for a project I guess! really would depend on the pool of developers and the resources they have 22:18:35 is runescape an open source, volunteer driven game? 22:18:49 yeah I was about to say, the thing about runescape is that they need to make money 22:19:04 I'm not endorsing the model! Just giving some context 22:19:30 yeah, comparing crawl dev to development of a commercial game doesn't get you very far 22:21:27 alexjurkiewicz: oh and to be clear, I was legimately asking if it was commercial, wasn't rhetorical question 22:22:22 my hot take is that ebering has done rather well for making such a vast magic rework and *not* getting more players upset 22:23:13 rework elemental magic, and people call you a saviour. remove wall busting from one spell and suddenly you're the bad guy! 22:23:36 yeah, osrs is monthly subscription 22:24:08 there has been a muted reaction to the spell changes so far. I wonder if launching an experimental and including new content helped to mitigate any backlash? 22:24:16 I wonder if = I bet that 22:24:39 that and his somewhat aggressive calls for player feedback 22:25:08 yeah. Can't claim to be not listened to after a million threads and you didn't post any feedback 22:26:56 advil: btw, did you have any plans or ideas for some kind competition infrastructure for seeded play? I guess I'm thinking something that might showcase the functionality a bit more 22:27:10 obviously just having accessible as an online game mode will help a lot 22:27:54 alexjurkiewicz yeah, the poster in that thread was explicitly comparing to runescape 22:28:29 gammafunk I will add a scoring thing of some kind, still working out the details 22:29:24 would also like to figure out *something* involving seeding for a tournament 22:29:34 yep 22:30:07 we kind of need to actually work on the tournament changes significantly before the event 22:30:27 someday 22:30:29 what I'm going to start with is just a wiki page outlining all the core ideas of discussed changes 22:30:29 yeah 22:30:40 good start 22:31:57 This is definitely less chaos than I was expecting post merge 22:32:33 if we can remove bolt spells and get away with it...what else can we remove??? 22:33:04 mountain dwarves again! 22:33:04 save compat 22:33:04 ...food? >_> 22:33:09 also tealizard thinks you should buff something, I do not know what to make of that 22:33:29 +advil | save compat <-- KEEP BEATING THAT DRUM 22:33:51 ebering's doing his part too, he even used an extra minor tag the other day 22:37:18 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:52:51 03ebering02 07* 0.25-a0-249-g542a224: Fixup Sting and the description (advil, kitchen_ace) 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/542a2242a211 22:58:51 false fixup! 23:02:56 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-249-g542a2242a2 (34) 23:27:32 fyi: dcssssat will open for registration this weekend