00:26:15 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-361-g57161393b2 (34) 01:38:40 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-361-g5716139 (34) 02:10:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-361-g5716139 02:11:24 32592 | Orc:2 | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet. 34972 | Swamp:1 | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet. 02:11:34 In a row. Is this normal? 02:24:55 Upd. Thrice in a row. 03:00:22 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-361-g5716139 04:43:38 Yermak: it usually happens when you have most/all of the spells Veh can offer, already in your spell library 05:28:44 New branch created: pull/1074 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1074 05:28:44 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1074 * 0.24-a0-359-g7cf4874: Update vine stalker description (11979) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7cf4874844fe 06:55:00 -!- lucy_bunny is now known as ne 07:21:14 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:42:27 I'm removing hunger costs from vampiric weapons. 09:07:44 New branch created: vamp-nohunger (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/vamp-nohunger 09:07:44 03Brendan Hickey02 07[vamp-nohunger] * 0.24-a0-362-g0f23e7d: Remove vampiric brand hunger cost. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f23e7d63475 10:17:46 The build passed. (vamp-nohunger - 0f23e7d #11530 : Brendan Hickey): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/537432012 10:37:52 03Brendan Hickey02 07[vamp-nohunger] * 0.24-a0-363-gc4ac1b2: Don't prompt when unwielding vampiric weapons. 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c4ac1b27a8b5 10:43:42 03Brendan Hickey02 07[vamp-nohunger] * 0.24-a0-364-gb5a06e8: Fixup vampiric brand messages to remove hunger references. 10(64 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5a06e84e3f3 10:44:04 03Brendan Hickey02 07* 0.24-a0-362-g0f23e7d: Remove vampiric brand hunger cost. 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 0+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f23e7d63475 10:44:04 03Brendan Hickey02 07* 0.24-a0-363-gc4ac1b2: Don't prompt when unwielding vampiric weapons. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c4ac1b27a8b5 10:44:04 03Brendan Hickey02 07* 0.24-a0-364-gb5a06e8: Fixup vampiric brand messages to remove hunger references. 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5a06e84e3f3 10:47:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-364-gb5a06e84e3 (34) 10:57:47 The build was broken. (vamp-nohunger - c4ac1b2 #11531 : Brendan Hickey): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/537449514 11:01:48 The build was broken. (vamp-nohunger - b5a06e8 #11532 : Brendan Hickey): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/537450974 11:03:24 ^ false alarm, travis is sad that I deleted the feature branch after merging 11:22:59 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-50-ga50397a6bc 11:51:57 New branch created: randen (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/randen 11:51:57 03Brendan Hickey02 07[randen] * 0.24-a0-365-gd298cd1: Stage Randen rng. 10(2 minutes ago, 6 files, 667+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d298cd1916b7 12:35:18 03Brendan Hickey02 07* 0.24-a0-365-ga4d96b6: Checkwhite fix 10(14 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4d96b6e6e81 12:41:17 hm, what is that about branch about? 12:46:25 The build failed. (randen - d298cd1 #11534 : Brendan Hickey): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/537465370 12:47:26 er 12:47:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-365-ga4d96b6e6e (34) 12:47:29 *that branch about 13:06:53 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.24-a0-365-ga4d96b6 (34) 13:48:43 The build was fixed. (master - a4d96b6 #11535 : Brendan Hickey): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/537475524 14:21:01 advil: replacing the RNG with something that isn't trash 14:21:07 uh 14:21:27 can you explain why pcg is trash? 14:22:05 it's trivially predictable 14:22:05 also, I'm not sure I see why randen is a particularly good fit for a video game... 14:22:17 what do you mean by "trivially predictable"? 14:23:06 well, less so than an LCG, but you can decode its internal state with some small number of outputs 14:23:53 PCG has few advantages over something that can use AESNI 14:27:33 can you point towards an actual successful attack against pcg? 14:28:28 even if that exists, I don't really see it as plausible that this is something players could take advantage of 14:29:12 O'Neill didn't bother writing any security proofs. I don't think anyone has bothered cryptanalyzing it. 14:29:32 crawl isn't a crypto app? 14:29:43 also, there is a *ton* written about pcg etc 14:30:17 there's her 40-odd page unpublished treatise on it and the guy who wrote xoroshiro complaining about it 14:30:30 the xoroshiro guy is a sexist nutter 14:30:37 tbh 14:30:53 is he? that's too bad. also, his RNG is garbage 14:31:12 I mean, to some extent I don't really care as long as the prng is deterministic and seeded, and is portable 14:31:42 but I'm not sure I really see any actual problem with pcg 14:31:53 My inclination is toward secure-by-default RNGs. Low quality RNGs have caused problems in software engineering for ages 14:34:37 advil: gamma mentioned you'd done a lot of work with stabilizing RNG usage to facilitate seeded games. Are there still tasks left? 14:35:15 I have a bunch of stuff in progress on the incremental_pregen branch 14:35:48 ah cool, lemme know if there's anything I can throw in on or just provide a second set of eyes on 14:36:31 the way gamma put it was "advil tracked down basically every RNG invocation in the entire codebase" 14:36:58 heh yeah it has involved a lot of detailed investigation...did you see my dev blog post about it? 14:37:02 that links to some of the commits 14:37:39 nah, I've been out of the game for a while. the baby is just over a year old so life is returning to normalcy 14:38:10 https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/behind-the-scenes-on-retrofitting-dcss-seeding 14:40:31 can randen work without special hardware? 14:41:34 Yeah, it doesn't require AESNI. It might not be the best solution, but if we can use secure by default, it'd be nice 14:42:23 " retired dev bh" advil, plz. devs don't retire. They only ragequit or take very long vacations 14:42:33 heh 14:43:49 having a global RNG is sort of gross, but it's the nature of C++. Doing this in haskell is super ergonomic 14:50:29 it's nice to see very few calls on seed_rng 14:50:31 dcss should be ported to haskell. not for any technical reason, but because it ends in "ell" 14:57:35 advil: this branch looks awesome. 14:58:05 the incremental pregen one? yeah it probably has a few things that will appear to someone who is into rng :-) 15:01:04 "up-front level generation is very hard on a server’s cpu" -- I'll go on a limb and assume that creating an RNG ahead of time for each level is insufficient, eh? 15:01:18 yep 15:01:46 because decisions in levelgen are not independent between levels 15:02:14 so order matters 15:05:15 crawl, it's constraint solving basically. 15:56:55 advil: do you mind if I take a stab at pronounceable seeds? 17:09:46 bh: sure, go for it. I haven't done anything with that one beyond reading the cogmind post about it, but there's definitely interest in that feature 17:44:40 all valid seeds should be some number of repetitions of Xom. 18:06:09 advil: sanity check -- accept any text sequence as a seed. if it's a decimal value, that's our seed. if it's [a-zA-Z] split it as camel case, binary search wordlists for the constituent words and use that to derive a seed 18:15:32 Tomb still has needle traps. 18:23:04 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.24-a0-365-ga4d96b6e6e (34) 19:28:00 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 19:36:04 advil: is it possible to show only "daily challenge" highscores when playing that particular seed? 19:36:28 bh: why not just md5sum(input)? 19:40:41 oh, show the seed as a series of words 20:22:59 with a 64-bit space the seed rapidly becomes a long word. 20:44:30 Tomb still has needle traps. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11991 by Yermak