00:33:09 -!- mroth_ is now known as mroth
01:40:35 <alexjurk1> you're right, it is the first line from that. Running `gcc -v` by itself is super quick
03:35:27 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
03:47:17 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-201-gf205589
08:14:36 -!- TigerbotHesh_ is now known as TigerbotHesh
08:52:46 -!- Legs__ is now known as Legs_
08:52:53 -!- Legs_ is now known as Legs
08:53:24 -!- Legs is now known as Legs_
11:06:28 -!- quadsar_ is now known as quadsar
11:16:44 <advil> alexjurk1: if you run gnu make with "-d" it'll give you some details on what all it's doing
11:16:54 <advil> spoiler: there's a lot
11:17:14 <advil> it's enough to nearly fill my terminal's scrollback (about 9/10)
11:34:00 <Pinkbeast> Oh johnstein where art thou
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12:28:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:31:21 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v
16:18:51 <Yermak> FR: let Fo dig through statues as well. It seems annoying to require them to carry wand of digging only for that reason. (Yeah, you can also use /digging to speed up prolonged excavations, but let's be honest, nobody does that.)
18:11:55 <NP7> Yermak: agreed, I have a PR nearly ready to go
18:16:52 <NP7> my PR has now been submitted
18:17:24 <twelwe> WTF i can be drained to 0 skill huh?
18:17:38 <twelwe> how do i overcome this? no popcorn enemies anywhere
18:17:53 <NP7> you overcome this by not getting drained in the first place :P
18:18:01 <twelwe> he had a demon trident
18:18:11 <NP7> who?
18:18:14 <twelwe> i was tabbing
18:18:17 <twelwe> the enemy
18:18:29 <twelwe> he had a draining demon trident
18:18:33 <NP7> welp
18:19:00 <twelwe> completely 0 skill everywhere
18:20:38 <twelwe> dead anyway. that sucked so bad
18:20:58 <twelwe> how the fuck is there no cap on draining?
18:21:12 <twelwe> that was so fucking stupid gammafunk
18:21:41 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1017 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1017
18:21:41 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1017 * 0.24-a0-202-g4eca787: Let formicids dig statues (Yermak) 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4eca7872bede
18:23:03 <twelwe> hell yeh formicid buff
18:23:23 <Yermak> Good job, NP7.
18:25:10 <twelwe> nmake digging silent again
18:25:32 <twelwe> or correlate it to stealth
18:25:55 <twelwe> dig lunging with wu was so awesome while it existed silently
18:29:04 <alexjurk1> there is a cap on draining twelwe
18:29:08 <alexjurk1> the cap is when you reach 0 skill
18:29:44 <twelwe> insurmountable
18:29:57 <twelwe> its really dumb
18:30:23 <twelwe> there is really no way to get over it, no consumable or anything
18:30:33 <twelwe> its just a `fuck you, you`re dead in 100 turns or so` move
18:31:12 <NP7> there are normally ways to prevent/reduce the draining/kill the monster without getting so drained
18:31:40 <twelwe> it wasnt one monster, i was in elf and got drained a ton, then went to shoals and met an impaler who got me to purple drain
18:32:33 <twelwe> i was in shoals to get rid of the drain and this yoke had a demon trident of draining. im barachi and can`t get away
18:34:34 <alexjurk1> not sure if you are in character at this point or not
18:35:03 <alexjurk1> but like, what do you want? Do you want the character to be insta killed if they are drained more than half their skills or something?
18:36:06 <NP7> (he died)
18:36:15 <NP7> !log twelwe
18:36:16 <Sequell> 1349. twelwe, XL16 BaAK, T:31252: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/twelwe/morgue-twelwe-20190322-222029.txt
18:38:48 <twelwe> with the entire dungeon cleared, there was no place to go to recover that drain. its stupid
18:39:46 <twelwe> no god abilities usable, weapons cannot hit with my plate on, and i`m not taking that off because my 35 AC was the only thing going for me
18:46:02 <fourba> not gonna lie, I too have tabbed into megadrain territory
18:48:34 <fourba> there's probably some amount of draining that no one ever hits "on purpose"
18:49:00 <fourba> so something like "if you're this insanely drained, all future skill drains are a force_more"
18:49:30 <fourba> would have to pick the right value for "this insanely drained"
18:53:31 <alexjurk1> if you cross the threshold from yellow to red drain, you could print a message which could be default force more
18:53:53 <alexjurk1> but it doesn't help twelwe's case of tabbing two enemies with draining brand
19:04:37 <twelwe> i didn`t tab to red draining. that came in elf. i was fighting off the draining when the merfolk came and got me to purple. i wasn`t hitting anymore and checked my skills to see why banish wasn`t working either when i saw all 0s
19:05:37 <twelwe> its completely stupid that you can get to 0 skills across the board
19:06:21 <alexjurk1> alexjurk1 | but like, what do you want?
19:10:26 <twelwe> 50% cap
19:11:14 <twelwe> Level 20.0(0.0) Long Blades
19:11:17 <twelwe> thats so stupid
19:11:25 <twelwe> drained 20 skill levels
19:12:04 <twelwe> and it can be 27 according to you
19:12:26 <twelwe> there is no remedy, no evocations, no god skills, everything is gone
19:12:50 <twelwe> like i said, insurmountable
19:14:33 <twelwe> i`ve been playing this game 10 years now and i`ve never had a character that screwed before
19:27:34 <jilles> perhaps it's better to kill a character outright rather than leaving it alive in such a frustrating state
19:28:53 <twelwe> i completely agree
19:32:17 <fourba> I don't think it's insurmountable for all characters
19:32:28 <fourba> but I don't play a lot of barachi
19:34:30 <twelwe> at level 16, with zero skills you have no options to recover. orc is done. lair is done. dungeon is done. there is no popcorn left, dungeon doesn`t respawn anymore.
19:34:57 <twelwe> my race didn`t matter, my level did
19:35:18 <fourba> I think that's about where my last guy had that happen, actually
19:35:19 <twelwe> you fight d:1 with zero skills because that is appropriate
19:35:54 <fourba> I'm not really arguing against limiting it somehow though
19:36:00 <twelwe> you have an okay chance against a hobgoblin with zero skills
19:36:01 <MarvinPA> i don't really see an issue here, it takes such an extreme level of not paying attention to get that heavily drained
19:36:08 <MarvinPA> and even that character had an inventory full of tools it wasn't using to recover when it died (although obviously the real solution is to use those tools to avoid getting into such a bad situation in the first place)
19:36:49 <twelwe> again. i am clvl16 when i get red drained in elf2. i go to shoals to recover the drain. i fight a merfolk who gets me to purple.
19:37:20 <twelwe> it doesn`t take extreme ignorance to get to red drain in elf with no rN
19:38:11 <twelwe> my point is that red drain is bad enough that purple drain doesn`t need to exist
19:38:55 <fourba> fun things should be kept, right?
19:39:16 <twelwe> -rP doesn`t stack, mr/2 doesn`t stack, nothing is like purple drain. its pure stupid
19:40:07 <fourba> I felt extremely proud of myself when I recovered from 0.0 skill drain (although the process of getting drained was frustrating -- a now-fixed "arguably-a-bug")
19:40:14 <twelwe> i can`t think of anything like it except quasits
19:40:45 <twelwe> which has the benefit of letting you see the number go down right on your screen
19:41:19 <twelwe> You are drained! (11% drained)
19:41:54 <twelwe> You are drained! (100% drained) wow taht wouuld be a fun message.....NOT
19:48:36 <twelwe> marvinpa wtf do you mean tools? am i gonna teleport away from drain?
19:52:14 <Cheibriados> Not enough room to enter entire seed 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11932 by TheGreatEd
20:03:56 <gammafunk> why would you fight a merfolk with a drain weapon when the whole purpose of going to shoals is to avoid drain
20:04:28 <gammafunk> it sounds like you were just not trying to avoid drain in the first place; if you see yourself getting drained and another comes along that's going to drain you
20:04:47 <gammafunk> use some kind of method to prevent it from drain bolting/meleeing you
20:05:33 <Pinkbeast> fourba: I had one of those on Shoals:4 which wasn't exactly happy fun time
20:07:46 <twelwe> because never in my wildest dreams did i think 100% drain was possible, and i`d love to hear the justification for it existing
20:08:43 <twelwe> i don`t think i`ve ever complained about a mechanic like this before
20:09:18 <gammafunk> it's just the natural progression of drain; it'd be more that you'd have to justify some special stopping point for drain. it's not the case that you can't recover from it, after all
20:09:41 <gammafunk> we don't have a minimum value for e.g. stat drain either
20:09:54 <twelwe> at level 16, with orc and lair and dungeon cleared, where am i going to recover? how? with what?
20:10:07 <twelwe> i`m left with zero offensive capibility
20:10:19 <gammafunk> go to a lair branch, avoid fighting things that would drain you
20:10:32 <gammafunk> or continue in elf, again avoiding anything that might drain you further
20:11:24 <gammafunk> things you can use include wands (hex wands are good here), other evocables that work ok with very low skill (e.g lamp of fire), lightning rod
20:11:32 <twelwe> i can`t hit anything, i can`t do shit offensively. you`re missing this somehow
20:11:43 <twelwe> i`m wearing heavy armour with a two handed weapon
20:11:45 <gammafunk> you definitely can hit things with 0 skill melee
20:12:05 <gammafunk> and right, if accuracy is a problem, then take off some armour, wear something lighter
20:12:19 <gammafunk> but I doubt you're unable to kill e.g. snapping turtles, plain merfolk, etc
20:12:23 <gammafunk> those just don't have a lot of hp
20:12:37 <twelwe> so to add to my zero offensive capibility you recommend reducing my defenses
20:12:43 <gammafunk> what?
20:12:56 <twelwe> take off my +11 plate
20:13:07 <gammafunk> you say you have "zero offensive capability" which is just utterly untrue, and you say that somehow your armour prevents you from doing melee
20:13:21 <gammafunk> so I say "well remove your armour" and now you say "but you're reducing my defenses!"
20:13:33 <gammafunk> you don't care about your defenses, you care about killing monsters for xp
20:13:53 <MarvinPA> the consequence of misplaying really badly is that you are in a bad spot and it's hard to recover yes, again it seems like this is working fine
20:13:53 <gammafunk> right
20:14:46 <twelwe> i`ve been in lots of hard to recover spots, nothing ever like this
20:14:52 <fourba> pinkbeast: yeah mine was shoals 4
20:15:07 <fourba> luckily I had not done Vaults 1 and had some wands
20:15:10 <gammafunk> personally I'd like to see drain just lower mhp due to other issues with how drain works, but that's really just drain the concept, not the stopping point
20:15:20 <gammafunk> if drain reduced mhp you could presumably get drained to 1 mhp
20:15:41 <twelwe> i`d rather have 1hp than 0 skills
20:15:57 <gammafunk> I wouldn't, I could recover from 0 skills much easier than 1mhp
20:16:04 <gammafunk> depends on the char, of course
20:16:37 <twelwe> purple drain screws you much more the higher level you are. makes no sense.
20:17:01 <twelwe> you can deal with 0 skill at clvl1. it isn`t reasonable to have to deal with it at clvl 16
20:17:39 <gammafunk> you are in vastly more danger at 0 skills on d:1 (d:1 is incredibly dangerous at xl 1 and you don't normally start at 0 skill)
20:18:03 <gammafunk> anyhow, I think you can recover with more likelihood than you're implying
20:18:09 <twelwe> you are astly more capible with 0 skill on d:1 because the competition is reasonable
20:19:13 <gammafunk> you're just going to die without any skills on d:1 save for certain species, sorry
20:19:35 <twelwe> i said earlier that you have an okay chance against a hobgoblin with zero skill on d:1
20:19:37 <twelwe> i still think that
20:19:38 <gammafunk> anyways, I don't agree with your estimations for likelihood for survival, and we don't have a cutoff for drain planned; you could well argue that recovering drain is a bit tedious, but I think that's part of the concept of drain
20:20:06 <gammafunk> well trust me I have a more than ok chance against a merfolk in shoals at xl16
20:20:12 <gammafunk> given all the stuff I could use, it's not even close
20:20:15 <twelwe> i don`t much care about recovery in general, it sould last much longer for all i care, i just don`t think 100% drain is reasonable at all
20:21:16 <twelwe> you should know i`m quite happy with the game, this is the only character death i`ve had that i thought was really stupid due to a mechanic alone
20:21:57 <fourba> my guess is that this will never happen to you again
20:21:58 <gammafunk> I don't think anyone is questioning whether anyone enjoys the game or not, it's just the argument you're making isn't convincing
20:22:17 <fourba> since you seem heavily incentivised to take draining very seriously now
20:22:50 <twelwe> i don`t have a more verbose argument other than 100% draining is ridiculous beyond anything i`ve seen in 11 years of playing
20:23:15 <gammafunk> time for using some level 1-2 spells at 0 skill to cheese
20:23:27 <gammafunk> if I had those on d:1 vs mr. hobgoblin I'd have the streak made every time
20:23:54 <fourba> are you experimenting with 0 skill d1 atm?
20:23:59 <gammafunk> no
20:24:12 <gammafunk> closes I could do to that would be play mumo
20:24:33 <gammafunk> and I respect that mumo is pretty hard
20:27:37 <fourba> i am dead
20:28:27 <fourba> 0 skill d1 experiment complete
20:30:02 <twelwe> take you single digit sample size experiment to reddit where it might be well received
20:36:36 <twelwe> gammafunk what do i type to see my % of deaths on d:1?
20:37:15 <gammafunk> depeds on how you mean percent; what percent of deaths are on d:1, or what percent of the time do you die on d:1
20:37:30 <amalloy> .echo 100%
20:37:31 <Sequell> 100%
20:38:51 <amalloy> as it happens both of those numbers are about 12% for twelwe
20:39:26 <twelwe> show both
20:39:54 <amalloy> !lg twelwe / !won place=d:1
20:39:55 <Sequell> 163/1349 games for twelwe: N=163/1349 (12.08%)
20:40:05 <amalloy> !lg twelwe !won / place=d:1
20:40:06 <Sequell> 163/1312 games for twelwe (!won): N=163/1312 (12.42%)
20:40:31 <twelwe> can you display those numbers past a certain year?
20:40:38 <twelwe> like 2017
20:40:48 <twelwe> or better yet, past 200 games
20:41:14 <amalloy> i encourage you to learn to use Sequell if you have such questions
20:43:00 <twelwe> i`m not learning a system i use four times a year
20:43:15 <twelwe> gammafunk usually entertains me quarterly
20:44:33 <alexjurk1> !lg twelwe !won start>2017-01-01 / place=d:1
20:44:34 <Sequell> 13/142 games for twelwe (!won start>2017-01-01): N=13/142 (9.15%)
20:44:49 <alexjurk1> !lg * !won thisyear / place=d:1
20:44:52 <Sequell> 68481/350416 games for * (!won thisyear): N=68481/350416 (19.54%)
20:45:04 <alexjurk1> you're twice as good as average!
20:49:09 <amalloy> my winrate is at an all-time high the past 365 days
20:49:13 <amalloy> !won . year
20:49:14 <Sequell> amalloy (year) has won once in 1 games (100.00%): 1xGnVM
21:12:52 <alexjurk1> :D
21:16:32 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:31:48 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy