00:16:49 03advil02 07* 0.24-a0-161-g3f7990a: Save game seed properly 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f7990ae4ddb 00:30:58 I like that this latest commit is a bugfix to a Revert Revert ... commit 00:32:18 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-161-g3f7990ae4d (34) 00:34:41 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-160-gfa3a8d6 (34) 01:06:21 Undo (L23 HuWn) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1842 failed. (Elf:3) 01:09:29 Undo (L23 HuWn) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1842 failed. (Elf:3) 02:00:30 hm, getting a lot of those 03:31:20 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-1777-gaab1afc21f 03:46:47 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 03:52:27 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-70-g80e160cf83 04:53:39 Accessibility of autoexplore unreliable in some contexts 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11919 by vincent-lg 06:46:22 brittlin (L18 SpEn) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1842 failed. (Elf:3) 08:56:37 !crashlog 08:56:53 20737. brittlin, XL18 SpEn, T:67707 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/brittlin/crash-brittlin-20190305-114622.txt 08:58:15 !crashlog Undo 08:58:16 6. Undo, XL23 HuWn, T:58519 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Undo/crash-Undo-20190305-060929.txt 08:59:20 I guess there's something happening in elf 3 09:03:04 in both of those elf was bribed, and had just timed out in one, was possibly close in the other 09:30:30 oh hm maybe there was something I wanted to push to a 0.22.2 11:31:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:06:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.24-a0-161-g3f7990a (34) 12:55:09 &rc RandomComboDemon 12:55:12 https://underhound.eu/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-git/RandomComboDemon.rc 13:10:45 03alexjurkiewicz02 {amalloy} 07* 0.24-a0-162-gb74a2b4: TAG_MAJOR_VERSION improvements (#955) 10(13 seconds ago, 44 files, 252+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b74a2b47565d 13:39:07 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-162-gb74a2b4756 (34) 16:29:03 D 16:29:05 : 16:30:45 advil: for seed input it would be cool if crawl supported arbitrary strings and just did something like md5() the input. Then you can have strings like 'bring back mountain dwarves' as a seed 16:40:50 agreed that would be cool. it seems easy except for some concerns i'd have about character encoding - i don't really know how our wchar support works, so maybe it's not a big deal 16:44:04 maybe there is someone whose c (U+0063) key produces the с (U+0441) character? that is probably not our problem, but i just worry anytime someone wants to treat text as binary, because character encodings are fiddly 16:46:09 that's cyrillic, right? then anyone whose primary keyboard encoding is a cyrillic encoding. but they're going to have more problems than that 17:03:02 heh interesting idea 17:03:22 yeah, such lookalikes are a problem we can probably punt on, but i worry about things like non-canonical encodings of combining diacritics, or just people whose OS has a different character encoding than we expect. we can canonicalise reasonably well as long as we're paying attention, i just want to make sure we don't accidentally implement "ascii seeds only" 17:04:38 would make it easier to support 128bit seeds, which the rng does allow, but I didn't decide to go with externally because I thought 20 digit decimal numbers were already too annoying for users (and allow plenty of dungeon-space) 17:05:37 it's too bad that almost most des changes result in all seeds completely changing. But I don't see a way around that 17:06:13 well, there are techniques I could start incorporating that would try to keep the number of draws more stable for large blocks of actions 17:07:38 what do other games with seeding do about version changes? 17:08:07 very few games that I know of really expose versioning as incrementally as we do 17:08:53 they don't "expose" them, per se, but don't things like binding of isaac or spelunky get updated somewhat regularly and transparently by steam? 17:09:13 ah, good point 17:09:15 oh, i guess spelunky doesn't have seeds as a built-in concept. it's a mod or something 17:09:21 well, there's a daily run 17:09:29 I'm not sure if you can pick a seed yourself for most of these games 17:09:35 for isaac you sure can 17:09:38 and spelunky has a mod 17:09:41 ah 17:09:48 I haven't played isaac in years 17:10:06 but i don't know how that behaves across versions. is an isaac seed from last year "still good"? 17:10:14 I bet not 17:10:39 brogue doesn't do a lot of releases and I don't think seeds are assumed to be stable across them 17:11:20 I'm actually not sure how stable brogue seeds really are across devices even, it's just a lot more disciplined about (and has much simpler) levelgen 17:12:02 but it has a seed based save format that is super buggy, and replays don't transfer between devices well 17:13:17 i guess factorio is an example, and i know how they handle version changes 17:14:25 any terrain you already explored gets "saved", but new terrain gets generated by the new version's code. so maps transferred across versions look weird, but it's okay because version changes are a lot rarer / they are more disciplined about not making changes that affect map generation accidentally 17:15:08 that's more or less what we do now with pregen off 17:15:09 plus that's usually the least of your concerns when upgrading 17:22:09 yeah. Ultimately if vaults change you want seeds to incorporate those changes. The cascade effect seems unavoidable 17:22:53 the way I've set it up, a seed from an upgraded non-pregen game is basically meaningless, though that is effectively the way the game has always been so it's still completely playable 17:22:55 I think Spelunky works because the level gen code has never changed 17:23:26 oh about that advil, what do you think about having seed imply pregen? Do you see much value in non-pregen seeded mode? 17:23:53 it feels like it could be a "you didn't read the docs" trap for people who want seeded play 17:24:18 well, pregen is the default if you start one of these games from the ui 17:25:11 it's true that selecting a seed without pregen is mostly valuable for debugging or quickly checking something about the early dungeon 17:26:58 03amalloy02 07* 0.24-a0-163-g64c5a76: Don't feel safe while emergency-flying (/u/StairDancer) 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64c5a76fe24c 17:32:31 i noticed in that thread someone called emergency flight "drowning" 17:32:31 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-163-g64c5a76fe2 (34) 17:32:31 which might be better flavour 17:32:35 doesn't work for lava though 17:52:30 there was an old idea to spawn only one of crypt and elf in a game, and buffing crypt difficulty/loot so it's more elf-tier. Any interest in reviving that? 17:52:37 I think it was PF who prototyped it 17:53:42 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/581 * 0.24-a0-163-g27ccd79: Rework strength damage modifier 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/27ccd79ffa55 17:53:42 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/581 * 0.24-a0-164-g1b3199c: Rework multiplier (advil) 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b3199c48f35 17:53:42 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/581 * 0.24-a0-165-g7a351c5: Fix comparison 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7a351c5b2971 18:02:56 I think non-pregen mode definitely has value in that you can recreate what's happened in a non-seeded game 18:03:32 yeah, effectively non-pregen/seeded is the same mode as "normal", but in the latter the seed is chosen randomly 18:03:34 I suppose it could be a debug build only thing 18:06:30 maybe eventually 18:06:45 in the long run if it can be made fast enough some form of pregen-like behavior might just be always on 18:22:17 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.24-a0-163-g64c5a76fe2 (34) 18:27:45 The build has errored. (master - 64c5a76 #11193 : Alan Malloy): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/502282025 18:57:11 guttsta (L25 VSFi) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1842 failed. (Snake:4) 19:05:09 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:38:36 MarvinPA: blast from the past, but in light of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9412 and subsequent commit dd2b5a88, how do you feel about gods being fine with your enslaving monsters they hate (e.g. with the wand) 19:38:52 seems like enslavement would likewise be disallowed by that logic 21:21:31 wow, this latest seed bug is a good one 21:21:31 the windows 10 user? 21:21:31 it turns out that the connectivity pathfinding is sensitive to some rc-controlled options 21:21:41 it's cross-platform, just depends on rc file 21:21:53 woah, as in for level generation? 21:22:00 yep 21:22:03 big 21:22:50 *probably* by itself it wouldn't lead to differences in connectivity, but I think it is causing a different number of draws from the rng 21:23:01 Options.explore_wall_bias definitely has an effect 21:23:27 I would *never* have found this if kitchen_ace hadn't noticed that deleting their rc file fixed it 21:23:34 heh 21:23:44 this was not even on the list of things I was considering 21:24:44 nice byrpoduct of users being trained to check their RC files when they experience errors 21:24:56 crawl RCs are so complicated and it's very easy to have weird settings that break things 21:26:58 yeah, this was a non-trivial rc file, it took like 15 minutes of bisection to get to this 21:27:26 bisection on the RC file? 21:28:05 yeah 21:31:34 I was like building some complicated arch linux docker container that attempted to exactly mimic one of the reporter's environments 21:31:42 completely wrong direction 21:52:16 dang 21:53:38 03advil02 07* 0.24-a0-164-g56e1b8f: Don't let explore options impact connectivity checks 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56e1b8fd0ee2 22:02:35 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-164-g56e1b8fd0e (34) 23:04:49 The build passed. (master - 56e1b8f #11195 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/502368296