00:00:12 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-115-gd155597 (34)
00:41:42 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v
01:27:43 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-115-gd155597 (34)
01:59:39 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-115-gd155597
02:59:06 <bgiannan> shouldn't the first target selected when casting a spell be the highest HD monster ? like tab does ?
02:59:32 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-115-gd155597
03:03:06 <|amethyst> would be nice if they shared logic, especially since autofight monster prioritization is customizable with lua
03:03:42 <|amethyst> though maybe it would make sense for them to prioritize different things
03:04:29 <|amethyst> (by default)
03:04:44 <gammafunk> =nemelex SpSk
03:04:46 <Sequell> Defined keyword: nchoice => GhVM|TeEn|VpCj|VpAE|CeAE|DDIE|DEMo|FeWr|HaEE|GnHu|KoAK|FoSk|DDFE|OpAK|SpSk
03:05:30 <|amethyst> though I guess threat level (it doesn't use HD directly) is one of the *last* tiebreakers for tab with the default priority
03:05:51 <|amethyst> !source compare_monster_info
03:05:52 <Sequell> 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/autofight.lua#L226
03:18:01 <bgiannan> I have some macro like "za." and i think i'm going to remove the "." because it's too dangerous
03:31:58 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-1729-gdd55c3d1e3
06:33:06 <Yermak> How long does it take for changes to rc to show up? Yesterday I changed my clan name an hour before the freeze date, and it's still hasn't come through.
06:34:06 <Yermak> s/it's/it/
06:46:02 <Cheibriados> Shafts collapse without shafting monster 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11882 by Le_Nerd
13:43:58 <advil> Yermak: it probably should have applied, what was the change you made?
13:48:56 <gammafunk> floraline: can you fix messaging on CKO? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/205316046230388737/546402529479491594/unknown.png
13:49:42 <gammafunk> elliptic: my undelivered console message because CKO console messaging is broken: "that is not a lot of int you have"
13:50:52 <advil> why does console even have a completel separate messaging system
13:51:41 <geekosaur> because console's came first and console doesn't speak compressed json
13:52:19 <advil> well, it does, there's two-way message passing
13:52:25 <advil> but "came first" seems likely
13:57:43 <geekosaur> yes, iirc it's two-way now because the webtiles daemon was modified to know how to "speak" console messaging
13:57:50 <geekosaur> which came late; they used to be disconnected
13:58:06 <gammafunk> we also have DO
13:58:09 <gammafunk> er CDO
13:58:14 <gammafunk> which I'm not sure is built with webtiles
13:58:33 <geekosaur> it's not running the webtiles daemon, certainly
13:58:42 <gammafunk> right
13:58:56 <elliptic> gammafunk: who needs to be intelligent
13:59:07 <gammafunk> yeah I guess you had exactly enough int
13:59:24 <gammafunk> elliptic: any general thoughts on 0.23 now that you've had a chance to play it?
13:59:32 <elliptic> was a little scared of oof mutating -int, but
13:59:51 <gammafunk> I was sort of waiting for the kown pie effect too, yeah
13:59:59 <gammafunk> *klown pie
14:00:19 <advil> klown pies weren't too bad for me, but it also did mean that klowns were a real enemy that I tried to fight one on one etc
14:00:43 <elliptic> one comment is that making runed doors glass all over the place is annoying for stealthy characters
14:01:23 <elliptic> since it makes it very likely that the stuff behind the glass runed door will be awake by the time you actually consider opening it
14:01:41 <advil> yeah, that's come up
14:02:10 <advil> I wonder if it would make sense to have stealth checks blocked by transparent features?
14:02:10 <gammafunk> I was just thinking that, yeah
14:02:10 <advil> maybe a bit abusable
14:02:11 <advil> well, or not really abusable
14:02:20 <advil> it's manipulable, but not necessarily in a bad way
14:02:22 <elliptic> I'm unsure
14:03:15 <elliptic> about klowns, I haven't bothered looking up what they actually do now, but I think the most annoying thing they've done so far is polymorph another monster into a doom hound
14:03:36 <elliptic> and then I didn't know what doom hounds did, so...
14:03:42 <gammafunk> heh
14:03:49 <advil> nice
14:03:50 <gammafunk> that's a good poly
14:03:58 <advil> I just got some boring -potion stuff
14:04:07 <advil> oh and one canceled a tele one time
14:04:17 <gammafunk> hrm
14:04:23 <gammafunk> I don't think that's actually a klown effect
14:04:29 <advil> actually no, that was a pan lord with chaos brand
14:04:29 <gammafunk> they don't have dispel nor tele other
14:04:47 <gammafunk> oh, yeah that's a pretty rare one
14:04:58 <gammafunk> although maybe the disto tele effect also cancels?
14:05:08 <advil> not to say that -potion is boring, it was just boring for this char
14:05:13 <advil> yeah, tele should always cancel tele
14:05:59 <elliptic> mainly 0.23 just feels like any other version
14:06:16 <elliptic> new trap system seems to work well (though possibly the alarm trap frequency is a bit high)
14:07:08 <gammafunk> !lm elliptic br.enter=gauntlet
14:07:29 <Sequell> 3. [2019-02-15 20:13:22] elliptic the Grappler (L12 TrAK of Lugonu) entered a Gauntlet on turn 13461. (Lair:2)
14:08:14 <advil> I'm afraid I was lame and left my gauntlet right away
14:08:19 <elliptic> gauntlets also a place where glass plays weirdly with stealth
14:08:34 <gammafunk> yeah, those a glass to the max
14:08:48 <gammafunk> part of the continuing tradition of stealth nerfs
14:09:22 <elliptic> I sort of dislike how you can look several steps ahead in gauntlet at the start
14:09:42 <elliptic> would prefer only being able to see the very next options
14:10:03 <gammafunk> yeah, that's certainly a possible route, but if that was done, I'd want exits at each step
14:10:30 <elliptic> seems reasonable
14:11:07 <gammafunk> it is sort of just a hassle to go peering at each vault even if it's fun (to me) to plan a route through
14:24:28 <advil> @??redback
14:24:28 <Gretell> redback (04s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 9 | HP: 22-32 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 1804(strong poison:33-58) | cling, web sense | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 220 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal.
14:41:41 <floraline> gammafunk: for some reason dgl is failing to create player spool files. if they already exist it will write into them just fine, but it won't create them and i can't figure out why
14:42:16 <gammafunk> hrm, not sure why that would be
14:42:31 <gammafunk> directory permissions?
14:42:37 <gammafunk> that would be the most likely culprit
14:42:58 <floraline> i can change to crawl user and create them myself so i don't think that's it
14:43:47 <gammafunk> perhaps it has a security thing where it refuses to create them for some reason; not sure if that had been handled by a setup script in the past
14:49:03 <gammafunk> looking at what dgl does it's fopen with "a" which should create the file if it doesn't exist
14:51:55 <geekosaur> chmod +t on the spool dir?
14:52:08 <geekosaur> although if it's all the crawl uid then no
14:52:17 <geekosaur> ...hm. selinux enabled?
14:54:06 <geekosaur> (or systemd using cgroups, which can cause all sorts of hard-to-diagnose "fun")
14:54:31 <gammafunk> yeah cdo has a different setup
14:54:36 <gammafunk> with a dgl user and a crawl user
14:55:19 <gammafunk> so dgl owns the spool dir with crawl as the group and with group being read-only
14:55:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  dgl on CDO is more or less like crawl on most servers, and crawl on CDO is more like crawl-dev elsewhere
14:56:06 <gammafunk> ah, good to know, thanks
14:56:14 <|amethyst> (CAO uses 'games' rather than crawl)
15:01:16 <floraline> i fixed it but i don't understand why it wasn't working before
15:01:28 <floraline> i guess i had the permissions wrong
15:02:05 <gammafunk> thank goodness elliptic can finally read my life-saving console messages again
15:02:08 <gammafunk> thanks!
15:02:15 <floraline> my spool dir is /var/mail in chroot owned by root:mail
15:02:28 <floraline> crawl is in mail group so it should have been able to write there, and indeed i could create files when i change to crawl user
15:02:44 <floraline> but dgl running as crawl could not create files there
15:03:29 <gammafunk> floraline: is crawl in the mail group according to the chroot?
15:03:37 <gammafunk> or just according to your system
15:04:29 <gammafunk> I'm not sure how user mappings precisely work going from system to chroot, but maybe there's a mismatch there
15:04:30 <floraline> yes, it should be
15:09:52 <floraline> now i just have to figure out why console games sometimes don't get found by webtiles
15:13:41 <floraline> for posterity: i solved it by giving /var/mail in chroot to crawl. this will surely not cause any side effects
15:16:54 <gammafunk> floraline: well that's essentialy how it's set up on CDO, so you should be fine
15:17:28 <gammafunk> floraline: when you said you became user crawl, did you do so inside the chroot?
15:17:46 <floraline> yes
15:17:47 <gammafunk> by inside I don't mean cwd but rather under chroot
15:18:00 <gammafunk> weird
15:18:04 <floraline> sudo chroot xx && su crawl
15:18:13 <gammafunk> huh, welp
15:18:36 <gammafunk> but yeah, as |amethyst said, for cdo the dgl user is equivalent to your crawl user
15:18:56 <gammafunk> and on cdo dlg is the owner of that spool dir inside the chroot
15:19:01 <gammafunk> s/dlg/dgl
15:20:57 <Pinkbeast> floraline: Oh, thanks, I'd noticed that was broken and failed to fix it. (I added "crawl" to group "mail", which should work but didn't and I dunno why)
15:21:13 <floraline> that's exactly what i tried to do
15:22:36 <floraline> there must be something weird about the way dgl runs as crawl that doesn't grant it exactly the same permissions
15:33:39 <Pinkbeast> Except such a thing isn't possible (I would have said)
15:36:10 <Pinkbeast> Oh, no, hang on; it setuid-s to "crawl", but doesn't setgid (or doesn't setgid to "mail", anyway).
15:40:10 <floraline> i see. so dgl does not get write permission to the spool dir through a group. it must be owned by your dgl user, which is crawl if you are following the setup guide
15:40:56 <floraline> that would be worth adding to the guide
15:44:33 <Pinkbeast> Vexingly I fixed this once already and forgot; I've a feeling a Debian package changed it back (maybe next time I'll remember)
16:03:40 <geekosaur> Pinkbeast, there's a reason I mentioned selinux and systemd/cgroups
16:03:43 <geekosaur> both can do that
16:10:28 <Pinkbeast> True, but I've got neither and I think "it doesn't setgid" explains it
16:18:15 <geekosaur> yeh
16:34:51 <Yermak> advil, "Mercenary" -> "Mercenaries", also added a couple of teammates (they also have the required line in rc).
16:35:33 <gammafunk> Yermak: did you add that before the clan cutoff?
16:35:41 <Yermak> an hour before that
16:38:07 <gammafunk> Yermak: looks like you didn't update CKO
16:38:11 <gammafunk> which has precedence
16:38:26 <gammafunk> that is described on the rules page
16:38:46 <gammafunk> I don't think anyone would strongly object to allowing the membership change
16:38:54 <gammafunk> but that's something to be aware of when changing your team
16:39:04 <advil> ah, yes, it's still reading from https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.23/Yermak.rc
16:39:32 <gammafunk> so unless advil objects, we can just modify your CKO rc (or delete it) from the clan stuff...although
16:39:35 <advil> yeah, seems reasonable to let it through
16:39:43 <gammafunk> I'm not sure if the script will actually process it
16:39:47 <gammafunk> as it does internally know about the cutoff
16:39:59 <Yermak> oh damn, right, I copied my rc to CKo in the middle of the tournament
16:41:04 <gammafunk> advil: I guess we could temporarily change the deadline
16:41:10 <gammafunk> restart the script and have it run a one-off
16:41:40 <gammafunk> since the rcfile fetching was properly turned off (admitedly I did it a bit late)
16:41:45 <gammafunk> if Yermak's fetched CKO rc is deleted
16:41:49 <gammafunk> it should work
16:41:56 <gammafunk> then we can change it back
16:42:09 <gammafunk> I don't think that would lead to any spurious clan changes since the fetching was turned off
16:42:28 <gammafunk> but it might let some people sneak changes through if they made them after the deadline but before I turned off the fetching
16:42:37 <gammafunk> which was like 4h after deadline
16:42:42 <advil> that sounds fine to me, but yeah, I wonder if this affects anyone else
16:42:43 <gammafunk> it's sort of easy to forget to do that
16:42:49 <Yermak> I've modified CKO rc.
16:42:55 <advil> I didn't even know it had to be turned off manually :)
16:42:59 <gammafunk> Yermak: doesn't matter, we're not fetching them any more
16:43:05 <Yermak> ah
16:43:21 <gammafunk> I don't have a great way of knowing if any clan defs would change
16:43:25 <gammafunk> aside from yermaks
16:43:39 <gammafunk> I suspect not since it'd have to be what I described in terms of the timing
16:44:41 <gammafunk> if advil wants to brush off his SQL-foo and check that somehow, or we can just do it and see if anyone complains
16:45:27 <gammafunk> I think that query might be a little difficult to make though
16:45:39 <advil> looks like the script uses its run time to compare against the deadline
16:45:50 <gammafunk> right
16:46:14 <gammafunk> so my plan was to change deadling to like "now + 30 minutes", stop it, run a one-off
16:46:21 <gammafunk> then change it back and restart the daemon
16:46:30 <gammafunk> well we'd stop the daeamon before doing this
16:46:59 <advil> ah I see
16:49:29 <advil> oh, what you turned off is whatever is fetching the rc files?
16:50:42 <advil> my knowledge of these scripts is still extremely weak
16:52:18 <gammafunk> advil: yes, it's just some crontab entries
16:52:25 <advil> it seems like that happens with a cronjob, if that cronjob is no longer running, then manually updating that one rcfile (deleting or fixing rcfiles-cko/Yermak.rc), and then rerunning the team update listener thing, seems like it should work
16:52:29 <gammafunk> those are what fetch RCs (or in the case of CAO, a text file)
16:52:32 <advil> maybe that's what you already said :)
16:52:37 <gammafunk> it is, yes
16:52:50 <gammafunk> well you also have to modify the deadline
16:52:52 <gammafunk> in the config
16:52:55 <gammafunk> but yeah basically that
16:52:58 <advil> yeah
16:53:10 <advil> ok, and you were worried about any rc changes that happened in those 4 hrs
16:53:25 <gammafunk> yes, since I turned off fetching 4 hours after
16:53:26 <advil> I'm ok with letting them have it
16:53:30 <gammafunk> ok
16:53:33 <gammafunk> I'll do that now then
16:53:37 <advil> I don't think anyone would get upset about this?
16:53:54 <advil> maybe I'm underestimating what people could get upset about
16:54:10 <gammafunk> yeah, I suppose theoretically if someone was lucky to sneak in a clan change and someone else saw that
16:54:17 <gammafunk> said observer might raise an objection
16:54:27 <gammafunk> the thing is we wouldn't really know about it unless someone brought it to our attention
16:54:32 <gammafunk> so I don't think it's a big concern
16:54:33 <advil> yeah
16:54:57 <gammafunk> we could also effectively revert that change but doing something similar to what we're doing with Yermak
16:55:43 <advil> I think also if we're going to grant yermak an exception for this kind of case (where there was a misunderstanding about which rc to update, since it was basically a technical/interface issue) if someone else asks we would need to do it again
16:56:35 <gammafunk> sure, but I also think we might need to have a "discretion is left to tournament organizers" clause
16:56:52 <gammafunk> maybe that section of the tournament rules could have a note
16:56:52 <advil> that's a good feature to add in the future, an explicit indicator of which rc file it is reading, since that info looks to be easy enough to get at
16:57:04 <advil> yeah
16:57:06 <gammafunk> oh yeah, you mean on the team page?
16:57:08 <gammafunk> that would be cool
16:57:12 <advil> or the player page, or both
17:07:23 <gammafunk> !time
17:07:24 <Sequell> Time: Feb 16, 2019, 10:07:24 PM, UTC. The 2019 0.23 tournament ends in 7 days, 21 hours, 52 minutes and 35 seconds.
17:10:45 <gammafunk> Yermak: ok, should be updated
17:13:34 <Yermak> thank you
17:13:56 <advil> also is this some kind of crazy new alt-based tournament strat?
17:19:06 <gammafunk> I'm just wondering if yermak's mugl will make it
17:19:25 <gammafunk> only 22 hp next to a blind orb of fire and a very angry ancient lich
17:19:35 <gammafunk> but it's parked for now
17:19:53 <gammafunk> and fortunately not part of the main streak
17:28:14 <Yermak> heh, did you watch it?
17:28:57 <Yermak> Plan is to kill oof with /scattershot, survive a turn against alich, then read silence.
17:31:53 <gammafunk> Yermak: yeah I did, since I eventually got so curious as to why it was parked so long
17:32:26 <gammafunk> right, I was expecting silence maybe earlier; I probably didn't pay quite careful enough attention, but I think the orb was blinded
17:32:38 <gammafunk> however if you kill the lich first the orb is still more likely to fireball you
17:34:53 <Yermak> I know that for sure
17:36:10 <Yermak> If I palyed more carefully I could've used cheesy strategy based on "Everyone hates you": spawn hostile water elemental behind Me, so that oof wouldn't cast even bolts of fire.
17:37:16 <gammafunk> we've talked about nerfing those sac loves strats by making the evokers either just never make summons or disallowing them
17:37:48 <gammafunk> I think it would require a ruling from the Ru overlord Lasty to decide that, though
20:00:02 <gammafunk> fake abjuration vs normal abjuration differences are very weird
20:13:01 <gammafunk> geeze this is just a byzantine nightmare; the notiion of what is a summon and what isn't just isn't very coherent
22:31:18 <Yermak> FR: issue a warning upon casting Summon Forest with OTR active.